WEBVTT 00:00:00.858 --> 00:00:04.786 Memory is such an everyday thing that we almost take it for granted. 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:08.355 We all remember what we had for breakfast this morning, 00:00:08.355 --> 00:00:09.756 or what we did last weekend. 00:00:09.756 --> 00:00:12.199 It's only when memory starts to fail 00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:14.607 that we appreciate just how amazing it is, 00:00:14.681 --> 00:00:18.140 and how much we allow our past experiences to define us. NOTE Paragraph 00:00:19.759 --> 00:00:22.996 But memory is not always a good thing. 00:00:22.996 --> 00:00:26.733 As the American poet and clergyman John Lancaster Spalding once said, 00:00:26.733 --> 00:00:30.176 "As memory may be a paradise from which we cannot be driven, 00:00:30.176 --> 00:00:33.479 it may also be a hell from which we cannot escape." 00:00:35.047 --> 00:00:38.256 Many of us experience chapters of our lives 00:00:38.256 --> 00:00:40.593 that we would prefer to never have happened. 00:00:40.593 --> 00:00:43.127 It is estimated that nearly 90 percent of us 00:00:43.127 --> 00:00:46.864 will experience some sort of traumatic event during our lifetimes. 00:00:47.905 --> 00:00:52.393 Many of us will suffer acutely following these events, and then recover, 00:00:52.595 --> 00:00:56.046 maybe even become better people because of those experiences. 00:00:57.080 --> 00:00:59.423 But some events are so extreme 00:00:59.773 --> 00:01:04.344 that many, up to half of those who survive sexual violence, for example, 00:01:04.944 --> 00:01:07.853 will go on to develop post-traumatic stress disorder, 00:01:07.853 --> 00:01:09.405 or PTSD. NOTE Paragraph 00:01:10.690 --> 00:01:14.043 PTSD is a debilitating mental health condition 00:01:14.043 --> 00:01:17.362 characterized by symptoms such as intense fear and anxiety 00:01:17.362 --> 00:01:20.606 and flashbacks of the traumatic event. 00:01:22.007 --> 00:01:25.960 These symptoms have a huge impact on a person's quality of life 00:01:26.177 --> 00:01:29.204 and are often triggered by particular situations 00:01:29.437 --> 00:01:31.855 or cues in that person's environment. 00:01:32.830 --> 00:01:37.478 The responses to those cues may have been adaptive when they were first learned -- 00:01:37.478 --> 00:01:41.171 fear and diving for cover in a war zone, for example -- 00:01:41.171 --> 00:01:42.755 but in PTSD, 00:01:42.755 --> 00:01:46.344 they continue to control behavior when it's no longer appropriate. 00:01:46.910 --> 00:01:50.270 If a combat veteran returns home and is diving for cover 00:01:50.270 --> 00:01:52.488 when he or she hears a car backfiring, 00:01:52.488 --> 00:01:55.975 or can't leave their own home because of intense anxiety, 00:01:55.975 --> 00:01:59.986 then the response to those cues, those memories, 00:01:59.986 --> 00:02:03.924 have become what we would refer to as maladaptive. 00:02:04.254 --> 00:02:10.739 In this way, we can think of PTSD as being a disorder of maladaptive memory. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:12.454 --> 00:02:14.354 Now I should stop myself here, 00:02:14.586 --> 00:02:17.723 because I'm talking about memory as if it's a single thing. 00:02:17.723 --> 00:02:18.807 It isn't. 00:02:18.807 --> 00:02:21.376 There are many different types of memory, 00:02:21.376 --> 00:02:25.571 and these depend upon different circuits and regions within the brain. 00:02:25.870 --> 00:02:31.343 As you can see, there are two major distinctions in our types of memory. 00:02:31.777 --> 00:02:34.118 There are those memories that we're consciously aware of, 00:02:34.118 --> 00:02:35.554 where we know we know 00:02:35.554 --> 00:02:37.638 and that we can pass on in words. 00:02:37.638 --> 00:02:40.624 This would include memories for facts and events. 00:02:41.058 --> 00:02:43.368 Because we can declare these memories, 00:02:43.368 --> 00:02:45.919 we refer to these as declarative memories. 00:02:46.253 --> 00:02:50.324 The other type of memory is non-declarative. 00:02:50.324 --> 00:02:53.933 These are memories where we often don't have conscious access 00:02:53.933 --> 00:02:55.868 to the content of those memories 00:02:55.868 --> 00:02:57.904 and that we can't pass on in words. NOTE Paragraph 00:02:58.138 --> 00:03:01.224 The classic example of a non-declarative memory 00:03:01.224 --> 00:03:04.534 is the motor skill for riding a bike. 00:03:04.534 --> 00:03:08.219 Now, this being Cambridge, the odds are that you can ride a bike. 00:03:08.219 --> 00:03:10.672 You know what you're doing on two wheels. 00:03:10.672 --> 00:03:13.599 But if I asked you to write me a list of instructions 00:03:13.798 --> 00:03:16.019 that would teach me how to ride a bike, 00:03:16.019 --> 00:03:18.786 as my four-year old son did when we bought him a bike 00:03:18.786 --> 00:03:20.221 for his last birthday, 00:03:20.221 --> 00:03:22.980 you would really struggle to do that. 00:03:23.331 --> 00:03:26.033 How should you sit on the bike so you're balanced? 00:03:26.033 --> 00:03:28.702 How fast do you need to pedal so you're stable? 00:03:28.702 --> 00:03:30.587 If a gust of wind comes at you, 00:03:30.587 --> 00:03:33.396 which muscles should you tense and by how much 00:03:33.396 --> 00:03:35.798 so that you don't get blown off? 00:03:36.666 --> 00:03:40.020 I'll be staggered if you can give the answers to those questions. 00:03:40.020 --> 00:03:43.329 But if you can ride a bike, you do have the answers, 00:03:43.329 --> 00:03:45.715 you're just not consciously aware of them. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:49.117 --> 00:03:50.835 Getting back to PTSD, 00:03:50.835 --> 00:03:53.264 another type of non-declarative memory 00:03:53.264 --> 00:03:55.313 is emotional memory. NOTE Paragraph 00:03:55.313 --> 00:03:57.767 Now this has a specific meaning in psychology 00:03:57.767 --> 00:04:01.271 and refers to our ability to learn about cues in our environment 00:04:01.271 --> 00:04:04.028 and their emotional and motivational significance. 00:04:04.329 --> 00:04:06.580 What do I mean by that? 00:04:06.580 --> 00:04:10.351 Well, think of a cue like a smell of baking bread, 00:04:10.718 --> 00:04:13.309 or a more abstract cue like a 20-pound note. 00:04:14.044 --> 00:04:17.380 Because these cues have been pegged with good things in the past, 00:04:17.581 --> 00:04:20.050 we like them and we approach them. 00:04:20.050 --> 00:04:24.877 Other cues, like the buzzing of a wasp, elicit very negative emotions 00:04:24.877 --> 00:04:29.715 and quite dramatic avoidance behavior in some people. NOTE Paragraph 00:04:29.882 --> 00:04:32.451 Now, I hate wasps. 00:04:32.451 --> 00:04:34.076 I can tell you that fact. 00:04:34.076 --> 00:04:37.679 But what I can't give you are the non-declarative emotional memories 00:04:37.679 --> 00:04:40.198 for how I react when there's a wasp nearby. 00:04:40.198 --> 00:04:42.267 I can't give you the racing heart, 00:04:42.267 --> 00:04:45.543 the sweaty palms, that sense of rising panic. 00:04:45.744 --> 00:04:51.315 I can describe them to you, but I can't give them to you. 00:04:52.633 --> 00:04:55.575 Now importantly, from the perspective of PTSD, 00:04:55.575 --> 00:05:00.080 stress has very different effects on declarative and non-declarative memories 00:05:00.080 --> 00:05:03.066 and the brain circuits and regions supporting them. 00:05:03.223 --> 00:05:07.194 Emotional memory is supported by a small almond-shaped structure 00:05:07.194 --> 00:05:09.646 called the amygdala and its connections. 00:05:10.121 --> 00:05:14.524 Declarative memory, especially the what, where and when of ?? memory, 00:05:14.524 --> 00:05:17.227 is supported by a seahorse-shaped region of the brain 00:05:17.227 --> 00:05:18.745 called the hippocampus. NOTE Paragraph 00:05:18.745 --> 00:05:22.589 The extreme levels of stress experienced during trauma 00:05:22.589 --> 00:05:26.474 have very different effects on these two structures. 00:05:26.474 --> 00:05:30.286 As you can see, as you increase a person's level of stress 00:05:30.286 --> 00:05:32.354 from not stressful to slightly stressful, 00:05:32.354 --> 00:05:33.405 the hippocampus, 00:05:33.405 --> 00:05:35.567 acting to support the event memory, 00:05:35.567 --> 00:05:38.459 increases in its activity and works better to support 00:05:38.459 --> 00:05:40.786 the storage of that declarative memory. 00:05:41.136 --> 00:05:44.305 But as you increase to moderately stressful, 00:05:44.305 --> 00:05:47.025 intensely stressful, and then extremely stressful, 00:05:47.241 --> 00:05:52.323 as would be found in trauma, the hippocampus effectively shuts down. 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:56.372 This means that under the high levels of stress hormones 00:05:56.372 --> 00:06:00.600 that are experienced during trauma, we are not storing the details, 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:03.987 the specific details, of what, where and when. 00:06:05.621 --> 00:06:07.924 Now, while stress is doing that to the hippocampus, 00:06:07.924 --> 00:06:09.441 look at what it does to the amygdala, 00:06:09.441 --> 00:06:13.251 that structure important for the emotional, non-declarative memory. 00:06:13.251 --> 00:06:16.318 Its activity gets stronger and stronger. 00:06:17.957 --> 00:06:22.578 So what this leaves us with in PTSD is an overly strong emotional, 00:06:22.578 --> 00:06:24.313 in this case fear, memory 00:06:24.313 --> 00:06:27.232 that is not tied to a specific time or place 00:06:27.431 --> 00:06:32.093 because the hippocampus is not storing what, where and when. 00:06:32.643 --> 00:06:35.763 In this way, these cues can control behavior 00:06:35.763 --> 00:06:41.075 when it's no longer appropriate, and that's how they become maladaptive. NOTE Paragraph 00:06:41.308 --> 00:06:46.729 So if we know that PTSD is due to maladaptive memories, 00:06:46.729 --> 00:06:50.123 can we use that knowledge to improve treatment outcomes 00:06:50.123 --> 00:06:51.874 for patients with PTSD? NOTE Paragraph 00:06:52.925 --> 00:06:58.388 A radical new approach being developed to treat post-traumatic stress disorder 00:06:58.388 --> 00:07:02.040 aims to destroy those maladaptive emotional memories 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:03.926 that underly the disorder. 00:07:04.264 --> 00:07:07.129 This approach has only been considered a possibility 00:07:07.129 --> 00:07:09.088 because of the profound changes 00:07:09.088 --> 00:07:11.889 in our understanding of memory in recent years. 00:07:12.774 --> 00:07:15.476 Traditionally, it was thought that making a memory 00:07:15.476 --> 00:07:17.845 was like writing in a notebook in pen. 00:07:17.845 --> 00:07:21.204 Once the ink had dried, you couldn't change the information. 00:07:21.889 --> 00:07:24.277 It was thought that all those structural changes 00:07:24.277 --> 00:07:26.926 that happen in the brain to support the storage of memory 00:07:26.926 --> 00:07:28.585 were finished with in about six hours, 00:07:28.585 --> 00:07:30.620 and after that they were permanent. 00:07:30.887 --> 00:07:33.872 This is known as the consolidation view. NOTE Paragraph 00:07:34.424 --> 00:07:38.434 However, more recent research suggests that making a memory 00:07:38.434 --> 00:07:41.170 is actually more like writing in a word processor. 00:07:41.437 --> 00:07:45.307 We initially make the memory and then we save it or store it, 00:07:45.591 --> 00:07:48.884 but under the right conditions we can edit that memory. 00:07:49.168 --> 00:07:53.938 This re-consolidation view suggests that those structural changes 00:07:53.938 --> 00:07:56.358 that happen in the brain to support memory 00:07:56.358 --> 00:07:58.013 can be undone, 00:07:58.013 --> 00:08:00.451 even for old memories. NOTE Paragraph 00:08:00.802 --> 00:08:05.455 Now, this editing process isn't happening all the time. 00:08:05.939 --> 00:08:08.767 It only happens under very specific conditions 00:08:08.767 --> 00:08:11.525 of memory retrieval. 00:08:11.525 --> 00:08:15.121 So let's consider memory retrieval as being recalling the memory 00:08:15.121 --> 00:08:17.973 or, like, opening the file. 00:08:17.973 --> 00:08:20.816 Quite often, we are simply retrieving the memory. 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:24.087 We are opening the file as read-only. 00:08:24.087 --> 00:08:26.055 But under the right conditions, 00:08:26.055 --> 00:08:28.322 we can open that file in edit mode, 00:08:28.515 --> 00:08:30.716 and then we can change the information. 00:08:30.716 --> 00:08:34.508 In theory, we could delete the content of that file, 00:08:34.508 --> 00:08:36.171 and when we press save, 00:08:36.171 --> 00:08:37.588 that is how the file, 00:08:37.588 --> 00:08:39.614 the memory, 00:08:39.614 --> 00:08:40.865 persists. 00:08:41.216 --> 00:08:45.169 Not only does this re-consolidation view 00:08:45.403 --> 00:08:48.847 allow us to account for some of the quirks of memory, 00:08:48.847 --> 00:08:51.831 like how we all sometimes mis-remember the past, 00:08:51.831 --> 00:08:55.686 it also gives us a way to destroy those maladaptive fear memories 00:08:55.936 --> 00:08:57.920 that underly PTSD. 00:08:58.711 --> 00:09:01.298 All we would need would be two things: 00:09:01.298 --> 00:09:03.817 a way of making the memory unstable, 00:09:03.817 --> 00:09:05.985 opening that file in edit mode; 00:09:06.402 --> 00:09:09.545 and a way to delete the information. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:09.545 --> 00:09:11.397 We've made the most progress 00:09:11.397 --> 00:09:14.132 with working out how to delete the information. 00:09:14.132 --> 00:09:19.828 It was found fairly early on that a drug widely prescribed 00:09:19.828 --> 00:09:22.877 to control blood pressure in humans, a beta blocker called Propranolol, 00:09:22.877 --> 00:09:25.136 could be used to prevent the re-consolidation 00:09:25.136 --> 00:09:26.737 of fear memories in rats. 00:09:26.737 --> 00:09:31.065 If Propranolol was given while the memory was in edit mode, 00:09:31.065 --> 00:09:35.675 rats behaved as if they were no longer afraid of a frightening trigger cue. 00:09:35.675 --> 00:09:40.197 It was as if they had never learned to be afraid of that cue. 00:09:40.547 --> 00:09:43.958 And this was with a drug that was safe for use in humans. 00:09:45.074 --> 00:09:47.928 Now, not longer after that, it was shown that Propranolol 00:09:47.928 --> 00:09:50.413 could destroy fear memories in humans as well, 00:09:50.413 --> 00:09:55.357 but critically it only works if the memory is in edit mode. NOTE Paragraph 00:09:56.409 --> 00:09:58.845 Now, that study was with healthy human volunteers, 00:09:58.845 --> 00:10:01.930 but it's important because it shows that the rat findings 00:10:01.930 --> 00:10:06.041 can be extended to humans, and ultimately to human patients. 00:10:06.458 --> 00:10:09.144 And with humans, 00:10:09.144 --> 00:10:13.655 you can test whether destroying the non-declarative emotional memory 00:10:13.655 --> 00:10:17.409 does anything to the declarative event memory. 00:10:17.791 --> 00:10:20.194 And this is really interesting. 00:10:20.194 --> 00:10:22.838 Even though people who were given Propranolol 00:10:22.838 --> 00:10:24.704 while the memory was in edit mode 00:10:24.704 --> 00:10:28.191 were no longer afraid of that frightening trigger cue, 00:10:28.191 --> 00:10:30.743 they could still describe the relationship 00:10:30.743 --> 00:10:34.403 between the cue and the frightening outcome. 00:10:35.354 --> 00:10:39.009 It was as if they knew they should be afraid, 00:10:39.009 --> 00:10:41.895 and yet they weren't. 00:10:42.261 --> 00:10:45.654 This suggests that Propranolol can selectively target 00:10:45.654 --> 00:10:48.007 the non-declarative emotional memory 00:10:48.007 --> 00:10:51.693 but leave the declarative event memory intact. 00:10:52.094 --> 00:10:56.270 But critically, Propranolol can only have any effect on the memory 00:10:56.270 --> 00:10:58.238 if it's in edit mode. NOTE Paragraph 00:10:59.290 --> 00:11:01.376 So how do we make a memory unstable? 00:11:01.592 --> 00:11:03.834 How do we get it into edit mode? 00:11:03.834 --> 00:11:06.538 Well, my own lab has done quite a lot of work on this. 00:11:06.538 --> 00:11:11.307 We know that it depends on introducing some but not too much new information 00:11:11.307 --> 00:11:13.900 to be incorporated into the memory. 00:11:13.900 --> 00:11:17.137 We know about the different chemicals the brain uses to signal 00:11:17.137 --> 00:11:18.872 that a memory should be updated 00:11:18.872 --> 00:11:21.340 and the file edited. 00:11:21.340 --> 00:11:23.382 Now our work is mostly in rats, 00:11:23.382 --> 00:11:27.836 but other labs have found the same factors allow memories to be edited in humans, 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:32.914 even maladaptive memories like those underlying PTSD. 00:11:33.612 --> 00:11:36.398 In fact, a number of labs in several different countries 00:11:36.398 --> 00:11:40.901 have begun small-scale clinical trials of these memory-destroying treatments 00:11:40.901 --> 00:11:42.244 for PTSD 00:11:42.244 --> 00:11:44.745 and have found really promising results. NOTE Paragraph 00:11:45.146 --> 00:11:48.733 Now, these studies need replication on a larger scale, 00:11:48.733 --> 00:11:52.643 but they show the promise of these memory-destroying treatments 00:11:52.643 --> 00:11:54.395 for PTSD. 00:11:54.862 --> 00:11:59.866 Maybe trauma memories do not need to be the hell from which we cannot escape. NOTE Paragraph 00:12:02.826 --> 00:12:06.245 Now, although this memory-destroying approach holds great promise, 00:12:06.245 --> 00:12:08.562 that's not to say that it's straightforward 00:12:08.562 --> 00:12:10.430 or without controversy. 00:12:10.697 --> 00:12:12.800 Is it ethical to destroy memories? 00:12:12.800 --> 00:12:15.735 What about things like eyewitness testimony? 00:12:15.735 --> 00:12:18.062 What if you can't give someone Propranolol 00:12:18.062 --> 00:12:21.663 because it would interfere with other medicines that they're taking? NOTE Paragraph 00:12:21.663 --> 00:12:24.533 Well, with respect to ethics and eyewitness testimony, 00:12:24.533 --> 00:12:27.702 I would say the important point to remember 00:12:27.702 --> 00:12:29.794 is the finding from that human study. 00:12:29.794 --> 00:12:34.350 Because Propranolol is only acting on the non-declarative emotional memory, 00:12:34.350 --> 00:12:37.819 it seems unlikely that it would affect eyewitness testimony, 00:12:37.819 --> 00:12:40.411 which is based on declarative memory. 00:12:40.978 --> 00:12:43.413 Essentially, what these memory-destroying treatments 00:12:43.413 --> 00:12:44.698 are aiming to do 00:12:44.698 --> 00:12:46.901 is to reduce the emotional memory, 00:12:46.901 --> 00:12:50.091 not get rid of the trauma memory altogether. 00:12:50.644 --> 00:12:53.762 This should make the responses of those with PTSD 00:12:53.762 --> 00:12:56.250 more like those who have been through trauma 00:12:56.250 --> 00:12:58.241 and not developed PTSD 00:12:58.241 --> 00:13:02.628 than people who have never experienced trauma in the first place. 00:13:02.628 --> 00:13:06.132 I think that most people would find that more ethically acceptable 00:13:06.132 --> 00:13:09.595 than a treatment that aimed to create some sort of spotless mind. NOTE Paragraph 00:13:11.143 --> 00:13:13.077 What about Propranolol? 00:13:13.077 --> 00:13:15.163 You can't give Propranolol to everyone, 00:13:15.163 --> 00:13:19.658 and not everyone wants to take drugs to treat mental health conditions. 00:13:19.658 --> 00:13:21.793 Well here Tetris could be useful. 00:13:22.828 --> 00:13:24.262 Yes, Tetris. 00:13:25.430 --> 00:13:27.398 Working with clinical collaborators, 00:13:27.398 --> 00:13:30.157 we've been looking at whether behavior interventions 00:13:30.157 --> 00:13:33.860 can also interfere with the re-consolidation of memories. 00:13:34.194 --> 00:13:35.846 Now, how would that work? 00:13:35.846 --> 00:13:38.249 Well, we know that it's basically impossible 00:13:38.249 --> 00:13:40.190 to do two tasks at the same time 00:13:40.190 --> 00:13:43.559 if they both depend on the same brain region for processing. 00:13:43.826 --> 00:13:46.413 Think trying to sing along to the radio 00:13:46.413 --> 00:13:48.521 while you're trying to compose an email. 00:13:48.521 --> 00:13:51.924 The processing for one interferes with the other. 00:13:52.592 --> 00:13:55.110 Well, it's the same when you retrieve the memory, 00:13:55.110 --> 00:13:56.512 especially in edit mode. 00:13:56.512 --> 00:14:00.004 If we take a highly visual symptom like flashbacks and PTSD 00:14:00.004 --> 00:14:02.924 and get people to recall the memory in edit mode, 00:14:02.924 --> 00:14:06.294 and then get them to do a highly engaging visual task 00:14:06.294 --> 00:14:07.811 like playing Tetris, 00:14:07.811 --> 00:14:12.390 it should be possible to introduce so much interfering information 00:14:12.390 --> 00:14:14.043 into that memory 00:14:14.043 --> 00:14:16.595 that it essentially becomes meaningless. 00:14:17.495 --> 00:14:19.087 That's the theory, 00:14:19.087 --> 00:14:22.522 and it's supported by data from healthy human volunteers. 00:14:22.522 --> 00:14:26.609 Now, our volunteers watched highly unpleasant films -- 00:14:26.877 --> 00:14:30.436 so think eye surgery, road traffic safety adverts, 00:14:30.436 --> 00:14:32.673 Scorsese's "The Big Shave." 00:14:32.673 --> 00:14:37.409 These trauma films produce something like flashbacks 00:14:37.409 --> 00:14:40.953 in healthy volunteers for about a week after viewing them. 00:14:41.203 --> 00:14:45.257 We found that getting people to recall those memories, 00:14:45.257 --> 00:14:48.242 the worst moments of those unpleasant films, 00:14:48.242 --> 00:14:51.019 and playing Tetris at the same time, 00:14:51.019 --> 00:14:54.556 massively reduced the frequency of the flashbacks, 00:14:54.556 --> 00:14:58.733 and again the memory had to be in edit mode for that to work. NOTE Paragraph 00:14:59.951 --> 00:15:03.987 Now, my collaborators have since taken this to clinical populations. 00:15:03.987 --> 00:15:06.690 They've tested this in survivors of road traffic accidents 00:15:06.690 --> 00:15:09.966 and mothers who have had emergency Caesarean sections, 00:15:09.966 --> 00:15:13.853 both types of trauma that frequently lead to PTSD, 00:15:14.487 --> 00:15:17.373 and they found really promising reductions in symptoms 00:15:17.373 --> 00:15:19.866 in both of those clinical cases. NOTE Paragraph 00:15:21.617 --> 00:15:25.488 So although there is still much to learn and procedures to optimize, 00:15:25.488 --> 00:15:28.948 these memory-destroying treatments hold great promise 00:15:28.948 --> 00:15:32.177 for the treatment of mental health disorders 00:15:32.177 --> 00:15:33.327 like PTSD. 00:15:33.327 --> 00:15:38.488 Maybe trauma memories do not need to be a hell from which we cannot escape. NOTE Paragraph 00:15:38.856 --> 00:15:40.907 I believe that this approach 00:15:40.907 --> 00:15:43.009 should allow those who want to 00:15:43.009 --> 00:15:45.262 to turn the page on chapters of their lives 00:15:45.262 --> 00:15:47.937 that they would prefer to never have experienced, 00:15:47.937 --> 00:15:50.673 and so improve our mental health. 00:15:50.958 --> 00:15:52.224 Thank you. 00:15:52.224 --> 00:15:53.492 (Applause)