1
00:00:01,662 --> 00:00:04,329
Which means our representatives 
do not have power

2
00:00:04,329 --> 00:00:07,600
and those who have the power 
of the european institution

3
00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,577
are not elected

4
00:00:09,577 --> 00:00:11,440
and this is planned in part I.

5
00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,600
It seems to me that this, 
deserved a debate.

6
00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,560
The fact that there wasn’t led me to think


7
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:21,141
that the European institutions 
are illegitimate.

8
00:00:21,141 --> 00:00:24,600
So, in the points I want to 
talk to you about,

9
00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,960
because I know you will 
not hear about this otherwise

10
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,103
if I don’t talk about it,

11
00:00:30,103 --> 00:00:33,261
there is what I call : 
« laws without parliament ».

12
00:00:33,261 --> 00:00:38,961
It the point E in the middle of the page


13
00:00:38,961 --> 00:00:41,040
« the ministers and presidents accumulate


14
00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,640
executive and legislative powers

15
00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,600
which means they are legislators

16
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,000
-the ministers – are at the same time
legislators and executives.

17
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,560
On a serie of areas hidden from people,

18
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,902
and I can prove that it is
hidden from people.

19
00:00:54,902 --> 00:00:56,691
I mean, the articles I will show you,

20
00:00:56,691 --> 00:00:58,618
you will see how it is hard to realise

21
00:00:58,618 --> 00:01:00,840
that these are topics on which

22
00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,097
the European MPS – people you elected-

23
00:01:04,097 --> 00:01:08,320
are left out in purpose.

24
00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:10,560
Not clearly left out,

25
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,160
they are left out in purpose

26
00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,500
and I would like to get 
your attention on this.

27
00:01:14,500 --> 00:01:15,600
So I read this with you


28
00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:17,744
in order to make sure 
I don’t forget a thing.

29
00:01:17,744 --> 00:01:19,360
So « the ministers and presidents

30
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,870
accumulate powers on a serie of
areas hidden from people

31
00:01:22,870 --> 00:01:25,360
under the abusive name of 
– take note of the name –

32
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,200
“specific legislative procedure”


33
00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,920
and it is the article 289 of TFUE.

34
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,995
It is in the middle of page 4.

35
00:01:41,955 --> 00:01:43,560
You see, there is the article 289


36
00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:49,400
and, I have highlighted here,
I have underlined the definition.

37
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,080
The 1/ It’s the ordinary 
legislative procedure

38
00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,260
which consists in the adoption of 
a rule, a directive, a decision

39
00:01:55,260 --> 00:01:57,800
by the European parliament 
together with the council.

40
00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,810
This is the ordinary procedure.

41
00:01:59,810 --> 00:02:02,040
It is not the parliament 
which makes the laws,

42
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,640
it is not the people you vote for 
which make the laws.

43
00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:08,200
It is : the people you vote for

44
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,550
with the council of the ministers, 
as co-legislators,

45
00:02:12,550 --> 00:02:15,383
which means the ministers 
who decided to be co-legislators.

46
00:02:15,383 --> 00:02:17,937
They decided to be co-legislators 
beside your MPs.

47
00:02:17,937 --> 00:02:20,259
And NEVER, really NEVER,

48
00:02:20,259 --> 00:02:21,640
Iin not one rule,

49
00:02:21,640 --> 00:02:24,392
at least I didn’t find any,

50
00:02:24,392 --> 00:02:26,960
in no rule, in no area

51
00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,151
the parliament can’t write the laws alone,

52
00:02:30,151 --> 00:02:32,575
without having
a sort of « tutor » behind him

53
00:02:32,575 --> 00:02:34,423
which is the council of the ministers.

54
00:02:34,423 --> 00:02:36,280
First thing… but it’s not all of it!

55
00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,520
So, the parliament, you know that already-

56
00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,280
We talked a lot about it in 2005,

57
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,240
the European parliament
does not have the initiative of laws.

58
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,120
Which means it is not it which decides.

59
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:46,760
It cannot decide on topics


60
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,120
on which it wants to legislate.

61
00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:50,680
Which means it can only vote

62
00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,516
for topics which are presented to it.

63
00:02:52,516 --> 00:02:54,640
This is VERY important,
absolutely IMPORTANT!

64
00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:57,520
The one who has the initiative, 
has a big part of the power.

65
00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,100
The one who doesn't want a law

66
00:02:59,100 --> 00:03:02,000
and who has the power of initiative, 
will not suggest this

67
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,390
and this law he doesn’t want,

68
00:03:03,390 --> 00:03:04,907
he will get rid of it that way.

69
00:03:04,907 --> 00:03:06,690
It is very important, the initiative!

70
00:03:06,690 --> 00:03:07,930
For a sovreign parliament,

71
00:03:07,930 --> 00:03:10,055
for a parliament worthy of the name,

72
00:03:10,055 --> 00:03:12,500
it is very important – 
it would be very important -

73
00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:13,990
to have the initiative of laws.

74
00:03:14,010 --> 00:03:16,558
You know that, in France, 
the initiative is shared.

75
00:03:16,558 --> 00:03:20,346
Most of the laws in France, 
come from the Government

76
00:03:20,346 --> 00:03:28,200
It is called the “projects of law”


77
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,000
whether, when it comes from an MP,

78
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,920
it is called a « proposition of law ».

79
00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:34,543
But at least, the MPs have
a little initiative.

80
00:03:34,543 --> 00:03:37,857
In the european institutions, 
they don’t have it AT ALL.

81
00:03:37,857 --> 00:03:40,970
So, it is in the article 2 that we find

82
00:03:40,970 --> 00:03:43,220
the beginning to understand
what is this thing.

83
00:03:43,220 --> 00:03:46,530
« In the specific cases, 
foreseen by the treaties

84
00:03:46,540 --> 00:03:50,940
The adoption of a rule, a directive,
or a decision

85
00:03:50,940 --> 00:03:53,170
So it is the three possible levels

86
00:03:53,170 --> 00:03:56,270
of the law in Europe

87
00:03:56,270 --> 00:03:57,710
by the european parliament

88
00:03:57,710 --> 00:03:59,590
with the participation of the council,

89
00:03:59,590 --> 00:04:02,152
by it, with the participation 
of the parliament

90
00:04:02,152 --> 00:04:03,742
which means that one of the two.

91
00:04:03,742 --> 00:04:05,762
You understand they are 2 co-legislators

92
00:04:05,762 --> 00:04:07,650
and the specific legislative procedures

93
00:04:07,650 --> 00:04:09,100
say : following these articles

94
00:04:09,100 --> 00:04:11,440
sometimes it will be the one 
and not the other

95
00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,820
and sometimes it will be the other
and not the one.

96
00:04:13,820 --> 00:04:17,030
So sometimes, it will be the council of 
the ministers which decides

97
00:04:17,030 --> 00:04:18,920
only with the opinion of the Parliament

98
00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:20,826
and sometimes it will be the parliament

99
00:04:20,826 --> 00:04:23,380
with only the opinion of
the council of the ministers.

100
00:04:23,380 --> 00:04:24,530
Here is what we’re told!

101
00:04:24,530 --> 00:04:27,645
and it will be called : 
« the specific legislative procedures ».

102
00:04:27,645 --> 00:04:29,956
Although, there is no, there is no list

103
00:04:29,956 --> 00:04:34,800
of the topics on which it is 
to the council to decide

104
00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,800
with only the parliament’s advise

105
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,570
the advise… and even if he disagrees

106
00:04:38,570 --> 00:04:39,850
it can be done without him

107
00:04:39,850 --> 00:04:41,240
because it is only an advise

108
00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,834
and then, the list of topics on which

109
00:04:43,844 --> 00:04:45,208
the parliament can decide

110
00:04:45,208 --> 00:04:47,459
and only with 
the council of minister’s advise.

111
00:04:47,459 --> 00:04:48,760
There is no list!


112
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:50,362
I wonder :

113
00:04:50,362 --> 00:04:52,060
« Why is there no list ? »

114
00:04:53,180 --> 00:04:55,150
because, we have to go and look for it..

115
00:04:55,170 --> 00:04:56,170
So I, I did this job,

116
00:04:56,170 --> 00:04:58,070
ae did this job, we searched

117
00:04:58,070 --> 00:05:01,120
a list of … well, you have to look 
into hundreds of articles

118
00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:04,761
sometimes you find an article and
you think

119
00:05:04,761 --> 00:05:07,370
"Here, I found a specific legislative 
procedure"

120
00:05:07,370 --> 00:05:09,900
and a specific legislative procedure

121
00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:12,090
all the one I could find, they are ALL...

122
00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,980
It is areas on which


123
00:05:14,980 --> 00:05:16,562
the ministers council can decide

124
00:05:16,562 --> 00:05:18,250
with the opinion of the Parliament

125
00:05:18,250 --> 00:05:20,420
and I found no specific 
legislative procedure

126
00:05:20,420 --> 00:05:23,145
where the parliament decides 
with the council’s advise

127
00:05:23,635 --> 00:05:25,200
and, I will give you an example,

128
00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,120
in order for you to understand
how this system works,

129
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,710
which are the topics,
a kind of topic on which

130
00:05:30,790 --> 00:05:32,981
we have a specific legislative procedure.

131
00:05:35,751 --> 00:05:37,610
So, I gave you several.

132
00:05:41,070 --> 00:05:45,605
You can see one just below:

133
00:05:45,605 --> 00:05:48,462
the article 153 – here is an example –

134
00:05:48,462 --> 00:05:51,308
yes, I put it between brackets,
in the middle of the page

135
00:05:51,308 --> 00:05:52,940
just beneath what I read to you

136
00:05:52,940 --> 00:05:54,840
inside the brackets : it’s me who talks

137
00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:56,660
as an exemple of non legislative act,

138
00:05:56,660 --> 00:05:58,670
see the security policy

139
00:05:58,670 --> 00:06:00,944
in the box on the side,

140
00:06:00,944 --> 00:06:05,840
for the foreign affairs, it’s incredible.

141
00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:08,126
Everything is happening 
without the Parliament,

142
00:06:08,126 --> 00:06:09,708
the Parliament can’t say a thing.

143
00:06:09,708 --> 00:06:12,230
But well, I’ll take another topic
which is more social

144
00:06:12,230 --> 00:06:13,660
which concerns us as employee

145
00:06:13,660 --> 00:06:16,422
in order to understand 
the specific legislative procedures

146
00:06:16,422 --> 00:06:18,985
which we should call instead,
laws without parliament.

147
00:06:18,985 --> 00:06:20,290
It is the name I give those


148
00:06:20,290 --> 00:06:21,410
because it is clearer,

149
00:06:21,410 --> 00:06:22,400
it would be clearer

150
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:23,810
as “laws without Parliament”.

151
00:06:23,810 --> 00:06:25,100
We have to read one by one,

152
00:06:25,100 --> 00:06:26,780
hundreds of the treaty’s articles.

153
00:06:26,780 --> 00:06:28,710
The fact of refusing to present a list


154
00:06:28,710 --> 00:06:30,850
of these laws without Parliament is

155
00:06:30,850 --> 00:06:33,320
in itself, suspect, 
why hide this reserved areas?

156
00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,100
So here is an example of 
an ordinary legislative procedure

157
00:06:36,100 --> 00:06:38,066
and of a specific legislative procedure

158
00:06:38,066 --> 00:06:39,390
regarding social politic.

159
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,546
The areas of codecisions 
between parliament and ministers

160
00:06:42,546 --> 00:06:43,750
are underligned in grey

161
00:06:43,750 --> 00:06:47,530
and the areas where 
the executive legislate alone

162
00:06:47,530 --> 00:06:50,395
are underlined in black.

163
00:06:50,395 --> 00:06:53,210
So, you see the article 153 TFUE


164
00:06:53,210 --> 00:06:55,710
which means you have 
already read 152 articles.

165
00:06:55,710 --> 00:06:56,655

You are looking for


166
00:06:56,655 --> 00:06:58,340
the specific legislative procedures

167
00:06:58,340 --> 00:06:59,920
and you arrive to the article 153

168
00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:02,370
where you find :
“in order to realise the objectives

169
00:07:02,370 --> 00:07:03,987
indicated on article 151.

170
00:07:03,987 --> 00:07:06,150

The union supports and completes blabla

171
00:07:06,370 --> 00:07:07,470
in the following areas

172
00:07:07,470 --> 00:07:09,080
and there, for now, we don’t see,

173
00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,575
we don’t see yet why it is
a law without parliament.

174
00:07:11,575 --> 00:07:13,570
You will see that in this other article,


175
00:07:13,570 --> 00:07:14,640
which you will realise

176
00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,370
and you will see the serie of areas,

177
00:07:16,370 --> 00:07:17,070
so, you have:

178
00:07:17,070 --> 00:07:18,940
a/ the improvement to the individuals

179
00:07:18,940 --> 00:07:19,990
b/ the work conditions

180
00:07:19,990 --> 00:07:21,674

so all the laws on social security



181
00:07:21,674 --> 00:07:23,443
the social protection of the workers



182
00:07:23,443 --> 00:07:25,365
all the laws on the protection of worker

183
00:07:25,365 --> 00:07:26,475
in case of resignation

184
00:07:26,475 --> 00:07:27,460
all the laws on…



185
00:07:27,460 --> 00:07:28,998
and you have a list like this

186
00:07:28,998 --> 00:07:31,460
Well, you see that the union supports


187
00:07:31,460 --> 00:07:33,080
and completes the States actions

188
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,827
but here you can’t see yet 
that it was – we can’t see that–

189
00:07:39,387 --> 00:07:42,540
this is a specific legislative procedure.

190
00:07:42,540 --> 00:07:45,410
So, wait, at what moment can we see it…

191
00:07:46,670 --> 00:07:47,820
So I keep going



192
00:07:47,820 --> 00:07:49,791
for this purpose, the Parliament

193
00:07:49,791 --> 00:07:51,290
I am at the end of this page 4



194
00:07:51,290 --> 00:07:54,416
2/ For this purpose, the parliament 
and the council

195
00:07:54,416 --> 00:07:58,129
can adopt measures 
which aim to encourage (a/)

196
00:07:58,129 --> 00:07:59,990

b/ can stop in the areas


197
00:07:59,990 --> 00:08:02,410
indicated in paragraph 1. a/ to i/

198
00:08:05,730 --> 00:08:07,640
by directive ways, minimal prescriptions


199
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:08,808
applicable progressively

200
00:08:08,808 --> 00:08:11,764
taking in consideration the conditions 
of the technical rules

201
00:08:11,764 --> 00:08:12,591
priorily existing

202
00:08:12,591 --> 00:08:15,780
these directives avoid the obligation
of administrative restrictions

203
00:08:15,780 --> 00:08:17,200
and you see that in the areas

204
00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:18,500
-third paragraph of page 5-

205
00:08:18,500 --> 00:08:20,290

In the areas aimed at by paragraph


206
00:08:20,290 --> 00:08:23,280
.c, d, f and g of the present article

207
00:08:24,740 --> 00:08:26,830
The council can decide in accordance with

208
00:08:27,010 --> 00:08:29,221
a specific legislative procedure,

209
00:08:29,221 --> 00:08:31,799
unanimously after consulting 
the European Parliament,

210
00:08:31,799 --> 00:08:33,370
the said committees...

211
00:08:33,370 --> 00:08:35,810
Wait! I don’t know if you see the clutter,


212
00:08:35,820 --> 00:08:38,861
in which we have to – 
and the constant concentration it needs-

213
00:08:38,861 --> 00:08:41,059
to see that : “hey!”

214
00:08:41,059 --> 00:08:43,390

- and here I have underligned in black –

215
00:08:43,390 --> 00:08:45,310
There are the areas indicated

216
00:08:45,310 --> 00:08:46,980
in the paragraph blablabla

217
00:08:46,980 --> 00:08:49,840
so we need to go backward 
and find it highlighted in black,

218
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:51,350
the areas we are talking about,

219
00:08:51,350 --> 00:08:52,849
these areas there,

220
00:08:52,849 --> 00:08:55,894
the council decides… And this means 
without the Parliament

221
00:08:55,894 --> 00:08:57,922
and here you have a legislative procedure

222
00:08:57,922 --> 00:09:01,150
where the council decides on 
a simple advise of the Parliament.

223
00:09:01,150 --> 00:09:04,639
Here, we have on points c/ d/ f/ and g/,

224
00:09:04,639 --> 00:09:07,890
we have laws without Parliament.

225
00:09:07,890 --> 00:09:09,733
So, what are these point there?

226
00:09:09,733 --> 00:09:11,186
Maybe it’s unimportant points…

227
00:09:11,186 --> 00:09:13,570
Maybe it’s points where 
it is not really important

228
00:09:13,570 --> 00:09:15,470
that our representatives discuss them

229
00:09:15,470 --> 00:09:17,310
and are able to – publically – debate

230
00:09:17,310 --> 00:09:20,460
of the discussions of
the European union on the topic.

231
00:09:20,460 --> 00:09:22,530
Are they topic that do not count ?

232
00:09:22,530 --> 00:09:25,260
The social security,
the social protection of the workers,

233
00:09:25,260 --> 00:09:26,650
the protection of the workers

234
00:09:26,650 --> 00:09:28,797
in case of termination
of the work contract.

235
00:09:28,797 --> 00:09:31,130
Why MPs have no decision power on this?

236
00:09:31,130 --> 00:09:33,450
Why ministers have to decide about that?

237
00:09:34,430 --> 00:09:35,420
Maybe I am wrong…

238
00:09:35,420 --> 00:09:38,077
I repeat, I am very « open » on this,

239
00:09:38,077 --> 00:09:40,820
I just say we didn’t get 
a debate on this topic.

240
00:09:40,820 --> 00:09:42,740
We don’t manage to get a debate on this

241
00:09:42,740 --> 00:09:44,340
and what I read, I find…

242
00:09:46,560 --> 00:09:47,742
I don’t like it.

243
00:09:47,742 --> 00:09:49,500
I don’t understand at all.

244
00:09:50,020 --> 00:09:51,856
I try to put myself in their shoes,

245
00:09:51,856 --> 00:09:53,790
I don’t understand why.

246
00:09:53,790 --> 00:09:56,790
Why have we put in place 
specific legislative procedures

247
00:09:56,790 --> 00:09:58,085
where the ministres,

248
00:09:58,085 --> 00:09:59,854
it’s the MINISTERS who decide

249
00:09:59,854 --> 00:10:01,310
and not my parliament.

250
00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,540
Participant : Wait… Where do 
these ministers come from ?

251
00:10:06,710 --> 00:10:09,670
They are not elected, 
how did they become ministers

252
00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:12,310
who took the decision 
to put them as ministers?

253
00:10:12,310 --> 00:10:14,350
Etienne : This depends on the governments.

254
00:10:14,350 --> 00:10:15,791
It depends on the countries.

255
00:10:15,791 --> 00:10:17,390
In some countries they are taken,

256
00:10:17,390 --> 00:10:19,780
in England, they are chosen 
amongst the MPs

257
00:10:19,780 --> 00:10:20,940
but in France maybe…

258
00:10:20,940 --> 00:10:23,540
How is he called the one who is candidate?

259
00:10:25,420 --> 00:10:27,647
It can be people
who have never been elected.

260
00:10:27,647 --> 00:10:30,180
It depends, it depends on the countries,

261
00:10:30,180 --> 00:10:31,760
it depends on the circumstances

262
00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,480
but it is not always elected people

263
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,650
and it is not people who are 
accountable in front of a parliament.

264
00:10:36,650 --> 00:10:41,011
Participant : In the specific topic 
of social security

265
00:10:41,011 --> 00:10:42,910
It will be minister of every country?

266
00:10:42,910 --> 00:10:43,980
Etienne : Yes

267
00:10:43,980 --> 00:10:45,700
Participant: one for each country ?

268
00:10:45,700 --> 00:10:47,770
The decision will be taken unanimously?

269
00:10:47,770 --> 00:10:48,660
Etienne: Yes

270
00:10:48,660 --> 00:10:50,370
Yes it says unanimously here.

271
00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:52,530
At the minister's unanimity.

272
00:10:52,530 --> 00:10:53,420
Of every country ?

273
00:10:53,420 --> 00:10:55,191
Yes, that’s it, without Parliament !

274
00:10:55,191 --> 00:10:57,200
Well, with the advise of the parliaments.

275
00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:58,340
… "After consulting"...

276
00:10:59,860 --> 00:11:01,770
Participant : In France, the ministers 
are not elected.

277
00:11:01,770 --> 00:11:03,590
Etienne : Yes but wait, in France,

278
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:05,360
the laws are voted by the Parliament

279
00:11:05,540 --> 00:11:07,140
but you are right to highlight

280
00:11:07,190 --> 00:11:09,183
that the worm was already in the fruit.

281
00:11:09,243 --> 00:11:11,920
We already have laws 
without Parliament in France.

282
00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:16,260
Yes all the regulatory power:

283
00:11:16,260 --> 00:11:18,200
decrees, orders, …

284
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,673
There is already a lot of rules
in the constitution

285
00:11:21,673 --> 00:11:22,966
of the 5th Republic.

286
00:11:22,966 --> 00:11:24,600
That would make Montesquieu


287
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,029
spin in his grave !

288
00:11:27,029 --> 00:11:29,863
Which are the most total confusion 
of powers

289
00:11:29,863 --> 00:11:31,763
and in fact all the regressions

290
00:11:31,763 --> 00:11:34,050
of the last 20 years of labour law,

291
00:11:34,050 --> 00:11:37,220
they happen very much 
by the regulatory power,

292
00:11:37,220 --> 00:11:38,950
which means without the parliament.

293
00:11:38,950 --> 00:11:41,300
It is the regulatory power

294
00:11:41,300 --> 00:11:45,910
which is for me, an aberration.
The regulatory power...

295
00:11:45,910 --> 00:11:48,449
There shouldn’t even be 
a regulatory power.

296
00:11:48,449 --> 00:11:51,700
We need to find something 
which allows to decide

297
00:11:51,700 --> 00:11:53,800
in all details, the application of laws.

298
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,870
I understand this,
I understand the purpose

299
00:11:55,870 --> 00:11:59,440
I understand the aim, the justification.

300
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,191
You see, in France, in law,

301
00:12:01,191 --> 00:12:05,020
you have the law which indicates
the general rules

302
00:12:05,020 --> 00:12:08,440
and then the argument, 
is that we cannot ask

303
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,060
to the parliament, 
which is an assembly which discuss,

304
00:12:11,060 --> 00:12:13,740
we cannot ask them to foresee 
to all the little details,

305
00:12:13,740 --> 00:12:14,990
the application of laws.

306
00:12:14,990 --> 00:12:16,734
It is the official explanation


307
00:12:18,284 --> 00:12:19,610
but it is a lie…

308
00:12:19,610 --> 00:12:21,090
Because it is all more serious

309
00:12:21,090 --> 00:12:22,455
what we do with the rules.

310
00:12:22,455 --> 00:12:25,040
This is the official explanation
of regulatory power,

311
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,209
of the power that we give – 
which should be only the executive –

312
00:12:28,209 --> 00:12:29,930
and which makes it the government.

313
00:12:29,930 --> 00:12:31,410
We give him a power


314
00:12:31,410 --> 00:12:33,798
of production of mandatory standards,

315
00:12:33,798 --> 00:12:37,890
with no limitation of time 
and so serious and dangerous,

316
00:12:37,890 --> 00:12:40,000
as dangerous as laws.

317
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,440
We give to the government 
a power so powerful

318
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,807
that the Parliament, 
with much less guarantees

319
00:12:45,807 --> 00:12:48,520
that the public discussion 
there is in the Parliament

320
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,380
with the possibility to put up, to discuss

321
00:12:51,380 --> 00:12:52,689
with the assembly

322
00:12:52,689 --> 00:12:54,040
a complete public debate.

323
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,010
When it is the government which decides


324
00:12:56,010 --> 00:12:57,553
throught the regulatory power,

325
00:12:57,553 --> 00:12:58,900
it is a lot more obscure.

326
00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:00,640
There is a lot less counter powers,

327
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,552
a lot less possible resistance.

328
00:13:04,302 --> 00:13:06,990
It is fertile ground


329
00:13:06,990 --> 00:13:09,320
to infinite power abuse

330
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:10,810
with the regulatory power

331
00:13:11,770 --> 00:13:12,700
but I am not saying

332
00:13:12,700 --> 00:13:15,620
that we are going from the paradise 
of French institutions

333
00:13:15,620 --> 00:13:17,656
to the hell of European institutions.

334
00:13:17,656 --> 00:13:19,330
I know that there is already,

335
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,610
that the situation is already 
very serious,

336
00:13:22,610 --> 00:13:24,720
in the 5th republic institutions

337
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,260
very unknown, unknown.

338
00:13:27,260 --> 00:13:29,070
I studied a lot of constitutional law


339
00:13:29,070 --> 00:13:31,266
and when I read manuals of 
constitutional law,

340
00:13:31,266 --> 00:13:32,420
I don’t see this revolt


341
00:13:32,420 --> 00:13:34,246
against regulatory power for example.

342
00:13:34,246 --> 00:13:36,470
The regulatory power 
in the consitutional law

343
00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:38,670
is presented like :
« Well, that’s how it is…,

344
00:13:38,670 --> 00:13:41,203
That’s how it is, and 
it is how it is since a while,

345
00:13:41,203 --> 00:13:42,900
since 1958, and we get used to it…

346
00:13:42,900 --> 00:13:44,700
And then, there were reasons,

347
00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:46,000
here is what was invoked,

348
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,750
and then we switch to another topic

349
00:13:47,750 --> 00:13:49,540
because a constitutional law’s manual

350
00:13:49,540 --> 00:13:51,990
is very thick, 
there are a lot of things to read.

351
00:13:52,270 --> 00:13:54,620
I think it is against the common good


352
00:13:54,620 --> 00:13:55,856
to give to the government

353
00:13:55,856 --> 00:13:57,630
a regulatory power so powerful.

354
00:13:57,630 --> 00:13:59,790
I remind you that in 
the institutions of 58,

355
00:13:59,790 --> 00:14:01,960
it’s incredible! The power of the law,

356
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,100
the areas of the laws are listed,

357
00:14:04,100 --> 00:14:06,500
there is a list of what the law can do.

358
00:14:06,500 --> 00:14:08,310
So if it is listed, it is limited


359
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:10,630
and the regulatory power, 
it is all the rest.

360
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:15,201
One can clearly see

361
00:14:15,201 --> 00:14:17,460
that it is De Gaulle 
who wrote the rules.

362
00:14:19,070 --> 00:14:21,820
Participant : Excuse me, 
I would like to ask a question,

363
00:14:21,820 --> 00:14:23,229
perhaps more subversive.

364
00:14:23,229 --> 00:14:24,750
If you have a car breakdown,


365
00:14:24,750 --> 00:14:27,322
you don’t start voting

366
00:14:27,322 --> 00:14:28,695
to decide what to do.

367
00:14:28,695 --> 00:14:31,010
You know an expert, a garage



368
00:14:31,010 --> 00:14:32,365
who fixes your car.

369
00:14:33,755 --> 00:14:36,854
I have the feeling that we await 
from a constitution of laws

370
00:14:36,854 --> 00:14:38,589
to solve problems,

371
00:14:38,589 --> 00:14:41,740
to avoid people acting wrong,

372
00:14:41,740 --> 00:14:43,157
as 2000 years ago or more,

373
00:14:43,157 --> 00:14:45,806
we believed in spirits or religion.

374
00:14:45,806 --> 00:14:47,600
In the end, you don’t believe that


375
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,920
it is the human behaviour the issue?

376
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:52,720
Do we need laws


377
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,740
to solve humans problems?

378
00:14:54,740 --> 00:14:56,270
That’s what I am asking…


379
00:14:56,270 --> 00:14:57,900
Do we really need representatives?


380
00:14:57,900 --> 00:14:59,740
Etienne : Ah, it is not the same!

381
00:14:59,740 --> 00:15:02,620
Participant : I talk about laws, 
representatives, all that.

382
00:15:02,620 --> 00:15:06,330
It is an absolute mess 
which hides completely

383
00:15:06,330 --> 00:15:08,420
our incompetence to manage problems.

384
00:15:08,420 --> 00:15:11,000
Etienne : So I point out – 
I did not bring that book-

385
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,600
but I recommend it very warmly,

386
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,590
maybe I should think of taking it 
with me all the time.

387
00:15:16,590 --> 00:15:18,830
There is, on the competency of people


388
00:15:18,830 --> 00:15:20,310
on the competency of humans

389
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:23,940
and the alleged, perhaps real

390
00:15:23,940 --> 00:15:26,290
incompetency of the people

391
00:15:26,290 --> 00:15:28,279
to decide about its own business.

392
00:15:28,279 --> 00:15:30,209
There was a very interesting controversy


393
00:15:30,209 --> 00:15:32,790
in the middle of the twentieth century,
between a guy

394
00:15:32,790 --> 00:15:35,839
who was called Lippman,
who was a journalist

395
00:15:35,839 --> 00:15:38,833
at the international level, a big name

396
00:15:38,833 --> 00:15:40,690
a brilliant brain which discussed

397
00:15:40,690 --> 00:15:42,300
with all the greats of this world

398
00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:43,980
who was a hardened liberal

399
00:15:43,980 --> 00:15:45,250
who had a book called

400
00:15:45,250 --> 00:15:46,670
“The phantom public”,

401
00:15:46,670 --> 00:15:49,530
which has been recently republished,
which is a wonder.

402
00:15:49,530 --> 00:15:51,890
Very smart, quite depressing,

403
00:15:51,890 --> 00:15:55,300
which pretends we are not able,

404
00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:57,260
that no one is able

405
00:15:57,260 --> 00:16:01,866
to have an informed opinion on matters,

406
00:16:01,866 --> 00:16:04,540
given the complexity of human problems.

407
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:07,790
So it is important what he says


408
00:16:07,790 --> 00:16:09,420
and he shows it

409
00:16:09,420 --> 00:16:11,810
and it’s true that it is very well argued

410
00:16:11,810 --> 00:16:15,490
and we feel, we feel that
he is entirely right,

411
00:16:15,490 --> 00:16:17,140
but what said Lippman,

412
00:16:17,140 --> 00:16:19,280
he didn’t only say that 
people are unable,

413
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,390
he said that the governers TOO are unable.

414
00:16:21,390 --> 00:16:23,580
That no one, on his opinion
is able to have…

415
00:16:25,220 --> 00:16:27,580
To pretend taking the good decision


416
00:16:28,250 --> 00:16:31,190
and the interpreters, 
the people who followed Lippman,

417
00:16:31,190 --> 00:16:32,870
they forgot that Lippman had said

418
00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:34,989
that not only the people was unable

419
00:16:34,989 --> 00:16:37,586
but also the princes and governers.

420
00:16:37,806 --> 00:16:39,893
Machiavel said that, Machiavel said also

421
00:16:39,893 --> 00:16:44,360
that the people was 
as virtuous as the princes,

422
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,320
that the princes were not
more virtuous than the people,

423
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,472
that the princes were not at all

424
00:16:49,472 --> 00:16:50,810
more able to take decisions

425
00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:51,940
than the people.

426
00:16:51,940 --> 00:16:53,030
We find, in Machiavel,

427
00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:54,590
much more than his caricature.

428
00:16:54,590 --> 00:16:58,020
I recommend really to read Machiavel.

429
00:16:58,020 --> 00:16:59,327
It’s a lot more interesting


430
00:16:59,327 --> 00:17:01,450
than the caricature 
we make of him usually.

431
00:17:01,450 --> 00:17:04,800
He was also looking for the common good,
it is very surprising.

432
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,540
So of course, there are features 
specific to the time

433
00:17:07,540 --> 00:17:09,140
which seem very brutal

434
00:17:09,140 --> 00:17:12,280
but it’s much more nuanced

435
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:13,890
than the caricature often made.

436
00:17:13,890 --> 00:17:16,000
But, to come back to what you were saying,

437
00:17:16,530 --> 00:17:19,020
so Lippmann has written this book

438
00:17:19,020 --> 00:17:20,000
“the phantom public”

439
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,960
defending the idea that we are not able,

440
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,710
and it’s totally linked to my topic,

441
00:17:23,710 --> 00:17:27,082
I open the bracket because it is 
completely linked to this thinking on

442
00:17:27,082 --> 00:17:28,404
if we organize a democracy,

443
00:17:28,404 --> 00:17:30,521
are we able to take decisions 
by ourselves?

444
00:17:30,521 --> 00:17:32,292
On our problems, on what concerns us.

445
00:17:32,292 --> 00:17:33,690
So Lippmann pretended that no


446
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:36,570
and he pretended that
our representatives couldn’t neither.

447
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:42,360
A great thinker who was called 
Dewey (John)

448
00:17:44,020 --> 00:17:45,790
who was a mathematician, a logician

449
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,010
and who was a survey theorist

450
00:17:49,340 --> 00:17:53,480
who has worked a lot on the improvement
of people competence

451
00:17:53,970 --> 00:17:56,230
from the survey method,

452
00:17:56,230 --> 00:17:58,860
a little like Socrates led us to

453
00:17:58,860 --> 00:18:01,041
progress by the thinking about ourselves,

454
00:18:01,961 --> 00:18:06,850
Dewey was confident in the survey virtues


455
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,738
in a working method, 
he was a mathematician, a logician,

456
00:18:10,738 --> 00:18:13,660
to improve our competency

457
00:18:13,660 --> 00:18:14,791
and I think…

458
00:18:14,791 --> 00:18:18,404
So the controversy between Lippman 
and Dewey is brilliant,

459
00:18:18,404 --> 00:18:21,610
absolutely exciting for us to understand,

460
00:18:21,610 --> 00:18:23,930
furthermore in a very 
comprensible language,

461
00:18:23,940 --> 00:18:26,708
it is not complicated words,

462
00:18:28,068 --> 00:18:31,429
these people there discuss about 
the greater good in concrete terms.

463
00:18:31,429 --> 00:18:36,040
Lippmann says : “ Humans are 
not able to take decisions”.

464
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:37,880
So he tends ultimately

465
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,180
to justify a tyranny,

466
00:18:40,180 --> 00:18:42,430
an enlighted despot who will be better

467
00:18:42,430 --> 00:18:46,030
and then Dewey says : 
“Not at all, if one has the means

468
00:18:46,030 --> 00:18:49,196
to institutionalize the conditions 
of a real survey,

469
00:18:49,196 --> 00:18:51,176
honest and complete,

470
00:18:51,176 --> 00:18:52,812
we will raise the level of people

471
00:18:52,812 --> 00:18:54,500
which will allow for them to take

472
00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:56,050
not so bad decisions.

473
00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:02,470
In addition to this controversy,

474
00:19:02,470 --> 00:19:03,996
with both these points of view,

475
00:19:03,996 --> 00:19:05,460
I would like to highlight that

476
00:19:05,460 --> 00:19:09,365
in drawn assemblies

477
00:19:09,365 --> 00:19:13,890
and we have hundreds of examples
of drawn assemblies,

478
00:19:13,890 --> 00:19:15,449
in the history of men,

479
00:19:15,449 --> 00:19:19,100
the draw is not at all a newness,

480
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:21,050
we test the draw since a while,

481
00:19:21,050 --> 00:19:23,160
I will talk about 
the Athenian time later on

482
00:19:24,030 --> 00:19:25,710
but today in the modern time,

483
00:19:25,710 --> 00:19:28,477
there is a lot of assemblies, 
citizen juries,

484
00:19:28,477 --> 00:19:30,562
deliverative polls,..

485
00:19:30,762 --> 00:19:32,947
Any kind of assemblies


486
00:19:33,487 --> 00:19:35,160
composed of ordinary people

487
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:36,927
to judge of technical topics

488
00:19:36,927 --> 00:19:41,770
existed, and are an observation field.

489
00:19:41,770 --> 00:19:44,003
An observatory which allows for knowing


490
00:19:44,003 --> 00:19:46,242
and so there is a book 
which makes the summary,

491
00:19:46,242 --> 00:19:47,570
a modern anthology called

492
00:19:47,570 --> 00:19:49,111
« The power to the people »


493
00:19:49,111 --> 00:19:50,930
from Yves Sintomer.

494
00:19:50,930 --> 00:19:52,848
This book here I recommend it to you.

495
00:19:52,848 --> 00:19:54,750
It is a book which concerns the citizen


496
00:19:54,750 --> 00:19:56,110
because it is the history…

497
00:19:56,110 --> 00:19:57,570
First, there is a good part

498
00:19:57,570 --> 00:20:00,310
of how the Athenians 
were drawn in Athenes,

499
00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:02,140
so the procedure they were using.

500
00:20:02,140 --> 00:20:03,673
Because every morning they drew

501
00:20:03,673 --> 00:20:05,267
and so he explains how it worked.

502
00:20:05,267 --> 00:20:06,341
The draw every morning

503
00:20:06,341 --> 00:20:07,530
is very interesting!


504
00:20:09,650 --> 00:20:11,280
The athenian example, you will see


505
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:12,710
I am enthusiastic about this.

506
00:20:12,740 --> 00:20:15,790
So Sintomer explains 
in a part of his book,

507
00:20:15,790 --> 00:20:18,901
a little quarter, he explains very well 
the procedure.

508
00:20:18,901 --> 00:20:21,826
But he also explains the experiences


509
00:20:21,826 --> 00:20:24,700
of citizen juries, of deliberative polls,

510
00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:27,330
in which we study 
the competency of people,

511
00:20:27,330 --> 00:20:29,060
we study the decisions they take

512
00:20:29,060 --> 00:20:30,861
and in the end we realise

513
00:20:30,861 --> 00:20:33,430
that far from being the incompetents 
we were promised,

514
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:36,857
far from being the drunken moron 
who understand nothing about nothing,

515
00:20:36,857 --> 00:20:39,090
who take care only of 
their personal interest,

516
00:20:39,090 --> 00:20:42,852
instead of taking care… and who are unable
to take care of the general interest.

517
00:20:42,852 --> 00:20:44,320
It is not AT ALL what we see,

518
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,266
what we see when we put people together,

519
00:20:46,266 --> 00:20:48,670
to take care of, to talk 
about the greater good,

520
00:20:48,670 --> 00:20:49,477
people CHANGE

521
00:20:49,477 --> 00:20:51,970
when we give them … Care here…

522
00:20:51,970 --> 00:20:54,070
When we give them the power


523
00:20:54,070 --> 00:20:55,986
of CHANGING things.

524
00:20:55,986 --> 00:20:57,254
If you take the piss …


525
00:20:57,254 --> 00:20:58,365
If you laugh at them…


526
00:20:58,385 --> 00:20:59,274
–no bad words-

527
00:20:59,274 --> 00:21:00,380
If you laugh at them


528
00:21:00,380 --> 00:21:03,260
and that you give them only
an advisory power

529
00:21:03,260 --> 00:21:04,780
which means you let them work

530
00:21:04,780 --> 00:21:06,923
and then it’s other people who 
will decide,

531
00:21:06,923 --> 00:21:09,410
for sure you will not get the effort.

532
00:21:09,410 --> 00:21:11,220
You can't catch flies with vinegar.

533
00:21:11,220 --> 00:21:15,198
You will not get from them the investment,

534
00:21:15,198 --> 00:21:18,580
the efforts, the personal implication

535
00:21:18,580 --> 00:21:20,160
which will change them

536
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,385
because you didn’t trust them.

537
00:21:22,385 --> 00:21:23,840
I am a teacher.

538
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,829
I often talk about it in my conferences


539
00:21:25,829 --> 00:21:29,098
because this is really 
what makes me believe.

540
00:21:29,098 --> 00:21:30,661
I know because I experience it.

541
00:21:30,661 --> 00:21:33,771
That when I trust someone,

542
00:21:33,771 --> 00:21:36,651
he changes! In a good way

543
00:21:36,651 --> 00:21:39,511
and in the opposite, when I don’t,

544
00:21:39,511 --> 00:21:42,246
if I don't, he changes, in a bad way!

545
00:21:42,246 --> 00:21:43,876
And people are not black or white,

546
00:21:43,876 --> 00:21:45,416
they are not always the same,

547
00:21:45,416 --> 00:21:47,066
it depends on the circumstances.

548
00:21:47,066 --> 00:21:49,776
There are institutions which 
push people in the good way

549
00:21:49,776 --> 00:21:52,286
and institutions which push 
people in the wrong way.

550
00:21:52,286 --> 00:21:53,336
What I pretend is that

551
00:21:53,336 --> 00:21:54,636
our institutions are closed

552
00:21:54,636 --> 00:21:56,456
and they deter us from doing politics.

553
00:21:56,476 --> 00:21:59,056
They deter us from making efforts 
for the greater good

554
00:21:59,056 --> 00:22:01,226
and that is why we look like 
passive citizen

555
00:22:01,226 --> 00:22:03,846
who don’t care about anything; 
who are individualists

556
00:22:03,846 --> 00:22:06,146
It’s multifactorial, 
that’s not the whole of it.

557
00:22:06,146 --> 00:22:08,236
But I think the role of 
closed institutions

558
00:22:08,236 --> 00:22:09,796
is important

559
00:22:09,796 --> 00:22:12,026
in this situation of passive citizen.

560
00:22:12,026 --> 00:22:14,506
I know it is not a panacea
what I'm talking about


561
00:22:14,506 --> 00:22:16,826
but I think more open institutions would

562
00:22:17,926 --> 00:22:20,256
let people discuss on sorted assembly

563
00:22:21,856 --> 00:22:24,936
or partially drawn if that scares you.

564
00:22:24,936 --> 00:22:26,526
We'll talk about it in a minute.

565
00:22:26,526 --> 00:22:30,056
Institutions which would allow people


566
00:22:30,056 --> 00:22:32,296
to discuss and DECIDE.

567
00:22:32,296 --> 00:22:33,616
Really decide


568
00:22:33,616 --> 00:22:35,966
and therefore take the risk of being wrong


569
00:22:35,966 --> 00:22:37,356
with the possibility

570
00:22:37,356 --> 00:22:39,176
when we realized they made a mistake

571
00:22:39,176 --> 00:22:41,446
of changing decision to modify.

572
00:22:41,446 --> 00:22:43,216
So, it's Institutional Assessment -


573
00:22:43,216 --> 00:22:44,986
which allows for decisions assessment



574
00:22:44,986 --> 00:22:45,796
and change.

575
00:22:45,796 --> 00:22:47,916
These institutions there 
if they were open ,

576
00:22:47,916 --> 00:22:49,686
they'd transform us, I claim it.

577
00:22:49,686 --> 00:22:50,466
Voilà, I ...


578
00:22:50,466 --> 00:22:54,056
and the institutions,… 
the experiments of draw

579
00:22:54,056 --> 00:22:55,746
that I observe in Sintomer's book


580
00:22:55,746 --> 00:22:57,206
I found them exciting


581
00:22:57,206 --> 00:22:59,326
because they point in the same direction,


582
00:22:59,326 --> 00:23:02,336
they show that, 
when a meeting of Malians ,

583
00:23:02,336 --> 00:23:04,116
so in Mali get together to ...

584
00:23:04,116 --> 00:23:06,556
they are drawn to talk about … anyone ,


585
00:23:06,556 --> 00:23:08,626
There is a little of everything in there,


586
00:23:08,626 --> 00:23:11,496
there is a lot of farmers because
they have a lot of farmers

587
00:23:11,496 --> 00:23:12,996
but there is not only farmers


588
00:23:12,996 --> 00:23:15,526
there is people of all socio-professional
categories.

589
00:23:15,526 --> 00:23:18,206
and when these people get together 
to talk about GMOs ,

590
00:23:18,206 --> 00:23:19,646
they know nothing about GMOs


591
00:23:19,646 --> 00:23:20,926
and they are given credits


592
00:23:20,926 --> 00:23:22,806
and for months they work on the topic


593
00:23:22,806 --> 00:23:25,066
they bring in experts from
all around the world

594
00:23:25,066 --> 00:23:26,316
They have credits for that


595
00:23:26,316 --> 00:23:27,646
They listen to the experts

596
00:23:27,646 --> 00:23:29,986
then they bring in experts 
with opposite opinions

597
00:23:29,986 --> 00:23:31,006
in order to hear ...


598
00:23:31,006 --> 00:23:32,496
to hear all sides of the story.


599
00:23:32,496 --> 00:23:33,676
They hear them publicly,


600
00:23:33,676 --> 00:23:36,696
all of it is broadcasted on the radio, 
on TV, on the internet.

601
00:23:36,706 --> 00:23:39,476
People can attend 
these deliberations ,

602
00:23:39,476 --> 00:23:41,306
they can intervene and ask questions ,

603
00:23:41,306 --> 00:23:43,576
they can say - you forgot to ask 
this question

604
00:23:43,576 --> 00:23:46,226
well the question is asked 
to Monsanto when it comes

605
00:23:46,226 --> 00:23:47,596
to explain why it wants GMOs


606
00:23:47,596 --> 00:23:50,666
then we will listen to the people 
of the peasant confederation

607
00:23:50,666 --> 00:23:52,406
to know why they don't want GMOs,


608
00:23:52,406 --> 00:23:54,826
then they listen to the peasants of 
Latin America

609
00:23:54,826 --> 00:23:56,426
Who are using GMOs and tell them 


610
00:23:56,426 --> 00:23:57,956
"why did you decide to use GMOs?


611
00:23:57,956 --> 00:23:59,216
Are you happy about it? "


612
00:23:59,216 --> 00:24:01,086
and we hear all this, and after months,


613
00:24:01,086 --> 00:24:03,126
people who knew nothing become competent.


614
00:24:03,126 --> 00:24:05,556
Here. And that's exciting!


615
00:24:05,556 --> 00:24:09,376
that's to say that practical experiments
confirm

616
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,160
what I tell you theoretically :

617
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:16,080
humans are political animals

618
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,330
but not at any price,


619
00:24:17,330 --> 00:24:21,220
If there is no stake, we do nothing


620
00:24:21,220 --> 00:24:22,950
because we have no reason to do so


621
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:25,030
but if there is a stake and that


622
00:24:25,030 --> 00:24:27,750
if one tries hard, he can change things,
then we do it

623
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:32,150
You have seen in 2005, we were told that 
we wouldn't discuss the institutions ,

624
00:24:32,150 --> 00:24:34,620
that the constitution was a dusty text, 
annoying ,

625
00:24:34,620 --> 00:24:37,150
which pisses off everybody, 
and noone would even care

626
00:24:37,150 --> 00:24:39,960
that it wasn't worth bothering
with a referendum taratata...

627
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:41,990
There was a referendum,

628
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:44,280
we felt we could say yes, no; 
there was a stake,

629
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,590
we started talking, 
we were said we could change

630
00:24:46,590 --> 00:24:47,960
but look how much we talked.


631
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,430
It could have been better,
it was not long enough ,

632
00:24:50,430 --> 00:24:53,460
we have not spoken of Part I as 
we should have, in my opinion.

633
00:24:53,460 --> 00:24:55,310
We should have been 80%, 90% to say no


634
00:24:55,310 --> 00:24:57,660
but because we have not had 
the needed debate.

635
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,690
I think there are many people, friends ,


636
00:25:00,690 --> 00:25:03,290
with whom I discussed at length,


637
00:25:03,290 --> 00:25:07,730
Who have voted yes because we did not 
have time to discuss as we should have,

638
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:09,440
I think it is…


639
00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:12,590
look how it changed us.


640
00:25:14,665 --> 00:25:19,115
So,about competence, I think we need laws


641
00:25:19,115 --> 00:25:22,685
I think when there is no law, it is
the law of the strongest that prevails

642
00:25:22,685 --> 00:25:25,275
and it seems to me less fun


643
00:25:25,275 --> 00:25:27,365
The law of the strongest is everywhere .


644
00:25:27,365 --> 00:25:32,925
Our regime ruled by law is, 
in the nature, quite exceptional ,

645
00:25:32,925 --> 00:25:38,205
it is only human which makes prevail, 
which imagine and enforce the rule of law.

646
00:25:38,205 --> 00:25:39,994
and I think it's far from perfect


647
00:25:39,994 --> 00:25:43,194
and we'll see why when we'll speak of
the representative government

648
00:25:43,194 --> 00:25:45,104
which is not democracy.

649
00:25:45,574 --> 00:25:48,144
But still, it seems to me that 
we have a tool

650
00:25:48,144 --> 00:25:51,154
Which should help protecting us

651
00:25:51,154 --> 00:25:54,834
Pacify us, give us a less painful life



652
00:25:54,944 --> 00:25:57,764
But do we really need representatives ?


653
00:26:00,297 --> 00:26:02,457
This really deserves a discussion.

654
00:26:02,457 --> 00:26:04,397
Representatives as we have today


655
00:26:04,397 --> 00:26:07,667
these representatives to whom, 
every 5 years ,

656
00:26:07,667 --> 00:26:11,027
we give all powers without being able
to choose them

657
00:26:11,027 --> 00:26:12,977
Because the choice is a false choice,


658
00:26:12,977 --> 00:26:15,617
people I vote for, I have not chosen 
them at all.

659
00:26:15,617 --> 00:26:18,227
I chose between people I have not chosen

660
00:26:20,997 --> 00:26:23,727
This example, is an academic example of
a false choice

661
00:26:23,727 --> 00:26:26,137
The examples presented to us 
during elections

662
00:26:26,137 --> 00:26:29,537
are not real choices, it's not me 
who has chosen these candidates

663
00:26:30,047 --> 00:26:31,747
So, you give all the powers,


664
00:26:31,747 --> 00:26:34,917
because that is exactly what is it, 
I give absolutely all powers

665
00:26:34,917 --> 00:26:36,897
to people I did not choose,


666
00:26:36,897 --> 00:26:39,377
and then without being able, 
during the mandate

667
00:26:39,377 --> 00:26:42,877
without having the slightest possibility
of revoking ,

668
00:26:42,877 --> 00:26:47,387
Or put into question, or even 
challenge their laws ,

669
00:26:47,387 --> 00:26:49,217
without having any mean of ...


670
00:26:49,217 --> 00:26:51,937
It doesn't seem at all, at all, 
at all desirable to me.

671
00:26:51,937 --> 00:26:54,421
But this, it is not at all democracy ,


672
00:26:54,421 --> 00:26:57,501
they call it democracy because
they know that we want democracy.

673
00:26:57,501 --> 00:27:00,161
and because they have understood,
and this is fabulous ,

674
00:27:00,161 --> 00:27:03,271
that's really smart to play with words
like that.

675
00:27:03,271 --> 00:27:06,381
By calling a regime that is the absolute
antithesis of democracy ,

676
00:27:06,381 --> 00:27:09,091
which is the opposite ... 
when you choose your masters ,

677
00:27:09,091 --> 00:27:11,131
people who will choose everything
for you ,

678
00:27:11,131 --> 00:27:13,621
it means that mechanically, it is not you 
who decide

679
00:27:13,621 --> 00:27:14,811
so this is not democracy


680
00:27:14,811 --> 00:27:18,211
If it is not you who decide, it means
that we are not in a democracy.

681
00:27:18,211 --> 00:27:21,871
The democracy, I'm sorry, 
it's a matter of definition.

682
00:27:21,871 --> 00:27:25,351
Well, we can discuss this if you want
because everything can be discussed

683
00:27:25,351 --> 00:27:30,721
but a democracy worthy of the name is not 
what the current system is.

684
00:27:30,721 --> 00:27:33,359
The current regime is the opposite:
it is a regime ... ,

685
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,799
perhaps defensible but it should not 
be called democracy

686
00:27:36,799 --> 00:27:42,179
and when it's called democracy, 
we get intellectually stucked,

687
00:27:42,179 --> 00:27:45,559
consciously or not, I don't care but 
we find ourselves bogged down

688
00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:49,259
in a situation in which, 
we call a situation

689
00:27:49,259 --> 00:27:52,249
which is problematic 
with the name of its solution.

690
00:27:54,249 --> 00:27:56,349
So we don't manage to formulate
the solution.

691
00:27:56,349 --> 00:27:57,929
We can not say "I want democracy"


692
00:27:57,929 --> 00:28:00,079
because we're told 
"but you already have it"

693
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:01,749
"but gnagnagna you play with words"


694
00:28:01,749 --> 00:28:03,949
We have to stop using the word
"democracy"

695
00:28:03,949 --> 00:28:05,819
when talking about the current regime.

696
00:28:05,819 --> 00:28:07,579
The system we live in is not at all

697
00:28:07,579 --> 00:28:09,689
and was never intended as a democracy.


698
00:28:09,689 --> 00:28:14,019
It is allegedly democratic since
the early 19th century

699
00:28:14,019 --> 00:28:16,829
but it was not thought of, to start with, 
as a democracy ,

700
00:28:16,829 --> 00:28:20,669
it was thought as an elective aristocracy 
where the best ones are designated ,

701
00:28:20,669 --> 00:28:23,789
where people refers to those 
who will decide in their behalf

702
00:28:23,899 --> 00:28:26,469
and the designers of the current regime, 


703
00:28:26,469 --> 00:28:29,469
which is to be called
representative government ,

704
00:28:29,469 --> 00:28:32,249
knew it very well ... 
they did it knowingly ,

705
00:28:32,249 --> 00:28:36,059
it is not by chance, they knew very well 
they were not instituting a democracy.

706
00:28:36,059 --> 00:28:38,099
They wanted it not to be a democracy ,


707
00:28:38,575 --> 00:28:40,755
They knew democracy, they knew what it is


708
00:28:40,755 --> 00:28:42,755
and they did not want it.


709
00:28:42,755 --> 00:28:44,975
and today we call this regime a democracy.


710
00:28:48,515 --> 00:28:51,975
When we will talk in a minute
about what characterizes a democracy

711
00:28:51,975 --> 00:28:54,895
and which allowed for the Athenians
to make

712
00:28:54,895 --> 00:28:56,595
a democracy worthy of the name work


713
00:28:56,595 --> 00:28:57,955
during two hundred years


714
00:28:57,955 --> 00:29:00,675
and what it had of extraordinarily
attractive for today ,

715
00:29:00,675 --> 00:29:02,955
you will see that the workings 
of a democracy ,

716
00:29:02,955 --> 00:29:05,935
have absolutely nothing to do 
with what we are living today.

717
00:29:05,935 --> 00:29:09,155
So I think I answered the bracket 
for a little too long ... but hey

718
00:29:09,155 --> 00:29:11,775
Presenter: Etienne, 
I will suggest a short break ,

719
00:29:11,775 --> 00:29:13,535
we said we would make a break at 7:30 


720
00:29:13,535 --> 00:29:16,055
we passed the time quite a bit. 
For those who want ,

721
00:29:16,055 --> 00:29:19,085
there is something to eat, sandwiches ,


722
00:29:19,085 --> 00:29:21,895
beers, juice, water, etc. next door.


723
00:29:21,895 --> 00:29:25,115
and we come back at, 
let's say, at ten to, a quarter to ten

724
00:29:25,115 --> 00:29:27,605
Etienne: you 're not getting bored yet?


725
00:29:27,605 --> 00:29:36,385
(Laughter) (din)