0:00:01.662,0:00:04.329
Which means our representatives [br]do not have power

0:00:04.329,0:00:07.600
and those who have the power [br]of the european institution

0:00:07.600,0:00:09.577
are not elected

0:00:09.577,0:00:11.440
and this is planned in part I.

0:00:11.440,0:00:13.600
It seems to me that this, [br]deserved a debate.

0:00:13.600,0:00:16.560
The fact that there wasn’t led me to think[br]

0:00:16.560,0:00:21.141
that the European institutions [br]are illegitimate.

0:00:21.141,0:00:24.600
So, in the points I want to [br]talk to you about,

0:00:24.600,0:00:27.960
because I know you will [br]not hear about this otherwise

0:00:27.960,0:00:30.103
if I don’t talk about it,

0:00:30.103,0:00:33.261
there is what I call : [br]« laws without parliament ».

0:00:33.261,0:00:38.961
It the point E in the middle of the page[br]

0:00:38.961,0:00:41.040
« the ministers and presidents accumulate[br]

0:00:41.040,0:00:43.640
executive and legislative powers

0:00:43.640,0:00:45.600
which means they are legislators

0:00:45.600,0:00:50.000
-the ministers – are at the same time[br]legislators and executives.

0:00:50.000,0:00:52.560
On a serie of areas hidden from people,

0:00:52.560,0:00:54.902
and I can prove that it is[br]hidden from people.

0:00:54.902,0:00:56.691
I mean, the articles I will show you,

0:00:56.691,0:00:58.618
you will see how it is hard to realise

0:00:58.618,0:01:00.840
that these are topics on which

0:01:00.840,0:01:04.097
the European MPS – people you elected-

0:01:04.097,0:01:08.320
are left out in purpose.

0:01:08.320,0:01:10.560
Not clearly left out,

0:01:10.560,0:01:12.160
they are left out in purpose

0:01:12.160,0:01:14.500
and I would like to get [br]your attention on this.

0:01:14.500,0:01:15.600
So I read this with you[br]

0:01:15.600,0:01:17.744
in order to make sure [br]I don’t forget a thing.

0:01:17.744,0:01:19.360
So « the ministers and presidents

0:01:19.360,0:01:22.870
accumulate powers on a serie of[br]areas hidden from people

0:01:22.870,0:01:25.360
under the abusive name of [br]– take note of the name –

0:01:25.360,0:01:29.200
“specific legislative procedure”[br]

0:01:29.200,0:01:31.920
and it is the article 289 of TFUE.

0:01:36.880,0:01:39.995
It is in the middle of page 4.

0:01:41.955,0:01:43.560
You see, there is the article 289[br]

0:01:43.560,0:01:49.400
and, I have highlighted here,[br]I have underlined the definition.

0:01:49.400,0:01:52.080
The 1/ It’s the ordinary [br]legislative procedure

0:01:52.080,0:01:55.260
which consists in the adoption of [br]a rule, a directive, a decision

0:01:55.260,0:01:57.800
by the European parliament [br]together with the council.

0:01:57.800,0:01:59.810
This is the ordinary procedure.

0:01:59.810,0:02:02.040
It is not the parliament [br]which makes the laws,

0:02:02.040,0:02:04.640
it is not the people you vote for [br]which make the laws.

0:02:04.640,0:02:08.200
It is : the people you vote for

0:02:08.200,0:02:12.550
with the council of the ministers, [br]as co-legislators,

0:02:12.550,0:02:15.383
which means the ministers [br]who decided to be co-legislators.

0:02:15.383,0:02:17.937
They decided to be co-legislators [br]beside your MPs.

0:02:17.937,0:02:20.259
And NEVER, really NEVER,

0:02:20.259,0:02:21.640
Iin not one rule,

0:02:21.640,0:02:24.392
at least I didn’t find any,

0:02:24.392,0:02:26.960
in no rule, in no area

0:02:26.960,0:02:30.151
the parliament can’t write the laws alone,

0:02:30.151,0:02:32.575
without having[br]a sort of « tutor » behind him

0:02:32.575,0:02:34.423
which is the council of the ministers.

0:02:34.423,0:02:36.280
First thing… but it’s not all of it!

0:02:36.280,0:02:38.520
So, the parliament, you know that already-

0:02:38.520,0:02:40.280
We talked a lot about it in 2005,

0:02:40.280,0:02:43.240
the European parliament[br]does not have the initiative of laws.

0:02:43.240,0:02:45.120
Which means it is not it which decides.

0:02:45.120,0:02:46.760
It cannot decide on topics[br]

0:02:46.760,0:02:49.120
on which it wants to legislate.

0:02:49.120,0:02:50.680
Which means it can only vote

0:02:50.680,0:02:52.516
for topics which are presented to it.

0:02:52.516,0:02:54.640
This is VERY important,[br]absolutely IMPORTANT!

0:02:54.640,0:02:57.520
The one who has the initiative, [br]has a big part of the power.

0:02:57.520,0:02:59.100
The one who doesn't want a law

0:02:59.100,0:03:02.000
and who has the power of initiative, [br]will not suggest this

0:03:02.000,0:03:03.390
and this law he doesn’t want,

0:03:03.390,0:03:04.907
he will get rid of it that way.

0:03:04.907,0:03:06.690
It is very important, the initiative!

0:03:06.690,0:03:07.930
For a sovreign parliament,

0:03:07.930,0:03:10.055
for a parliament worthy of the name,

0:03:10.055,0:03:12.500
it is very important – [br]it would be very important -

0:03:12.500,0:03:13.990
to have the initiative of laws.

0:03:14.010,0:03:16.558
You know that, in France, [br]the initiative is shared.

0:03:16.558,0:03:20.346
Most of the laws in France, [br]come from the Government

0:03:20.346,0:03:28.200
It is called the “projects of law”[br]

0:03:28.200,0:03:30.000
whether, when it comes from an MP,

0:03:30.000,0:03:31.920
it is called a « proposition of law ».

0:03:31.920,0:03:34.543
But at least, the MPs have[br]a little initiative.

0:03:34.543,0:03:37.857
In the european institutions, [br]they don’t have it AT ALL.

0:03:37.857,0:03:40.970
So, it is in the article 2 that we find

0:03:40.970,0:03:43.220
the beginning to understand[br]what is this thing.

0:03:43.220,0:03:46.530
« In the specific cases, [br]foreseen by the treaties

0:03:46.540,0:03:50.940
The adoption of a rule, a directive,[br]or a decision

0:03:50.940,0:03:53.170
So it is the three possible levels

0:03:53.170,0:03:56.270
of the law in Europe

0:03:56.270,0:03:57.710
by the european parliament

0:03:57.710,0:03:59.590
with the participation of the council,

0:03:59.590,0:04:02.152
by it, with the participation [br]of the parliament

0:04:02.152,0:04:03.742
which means that one of the two.

0:04:03.742,0:04:05.762
You understand they are 2 co-legislators

0:04:05.762,0:04:07.650
and the specific legislative procedures

0:04:07.650,0:04:09.100
say : following these articles

0:04:09.100,0:04:11.440
sometimes it will be the one [br]and not the other

0:04:11.440,0:04:13.820
and sometimes it will be the other[br]and not the one.

0:04:13.820,0:04:17.030
So sometimes, it will be the council of [br]the ministers which decides

0:04:17.030,0:04:18.920
only with the opinion of the Parliament

0:04:18.920,0:04:20.826
and sometimes it will be the parliament

0:04:20.826,0:04:23.380
with only the opinion of[br]the council of the ministers.

0:04:23.380,0:04:24.530
Here is what we’re told!

0:04:24.530,0:04:27.645
and it will be called : [br]« the specific legislative procedures ».

0:04:27.645,0:04:29.956
Although, there is no, there is no list

0:04:29.956,0:04:34.800
of the topics on which it is [br]to the council to decide

0:04:34.800,0:04:36.800
with only the parliament’s advise

0:04:36.800,0:04:38.570
the advise… and even if he disagrees

0:04:38.570,0:04:39.850
it can be done without him

0:04:39.850,0:04:41.240
because it is only an advise

0:04:41.240,0:04:43.834
and then, the list of topics on which

0:04:43.844,0:04:45.208
the parliament can decide

0:04:45.208,0:04:47.459
and only with [br]the council of minister’s advise.

0:04:47.459,0:04:48.760
There is no list![br]

0:04:49.360,0:04:50.362
I wonder :

0:04:50.362,0:04:52.060
« Why is there no list ? »

0:04:53.180,0:04:55.150
because, we have to go and look for it..

0:04:55.170,0:04:56.170
So I, I did this job,

0:04:56.170,0:04:58.070
ae did this job, we searched

0:04:58.070,0:05:01.120
a list of … well, you have to look [br]into hundreds of articles

0:05:02.280,0:05:04.761
sometimes you find an article and[br]you think

0:05:04.761,0:05:07.370
"Here, I found a specific legislative [br]procedure"

0:05:07.370,0:05:09.900
and a specific legislative procedure

0:05:09.900,0:05:12.090
all the one I could find, they are ALL...

0:05:13.320,0:05:14.980
It is areas on which[br]

0:05:14.980,0:05:16.562
the ministers council can decide

0:05:16.562,0:05:18.250
with the opinion of the Parliament

0:05:18.250,0:05:20.420
and I found no specific [br]legislative procedure

0:05:20.420,0:05:23.145
where the parliament decides [br]with the council’s advise

0:05:23.635,0:05:25.200
and, I will give you an example,

0:05:25.200,0:05:28.120
in order for you to understand[br]how this system works,

0:05:28.120,0:05:30.710
which are the topics,[br]a kind of topic on which

0:05:30.790,0:05:32.981
we have a specific legislative procedure.

0:05:35.751,0:05:37.610
So, I gave you several.

0:05:41.070,0:05:45.605
You can see one just below:

0:05:45.605,0:05:48.462
the article 153 – here is an example –

0:05:48.462,0:05:51.308
yes, I put it between brackets,[br]in the middle of the page

0:05:51.308,0:05:52.940
just beneath what I read to you

0:05:52.940,0:05:54.840
inside the brackets : it’s me who talks

0:05:54.840,0:05:56.660
as an exemple of non legislative act,

0:05:56.660,0:05:58.670
see the security policy

0:05:58.670,0:06:00.944
in the box on the side,

0:06:00.944,0:06:05.840
for the foreign affairs, it’s incredible.

0:06:05.840,0:06:08.126
Everything is happening [br]without the Parliament,

0:06:08.126,0:06:09.708
the Parliament can’t say a thing.

0:06:09.708,0:06:12.230
But well, I’ll take another topic[br]which is more social

0:06:12.230,0:06:13.660
which concerns us as employee

0:06:13.660,0:06:16.422
in order to understand [br]the specific legislative procedures

0:06:16.422,0:06:18.985
which we should call instead,[br]laws without parliament.

0:06:18.985,0:06:20.290
It is the name I give those[br]

0:06:20.290,0:06:21.410
because it is clearer,

0:06:21.410,0:06:22.400
it would be clearer

0:06:22.400,0:06:23.810
as “laws without Parliament”.

0:06:23.810,0:06:25.100
We have to read one by one,

0:06:25.100,0:06:26.780
hundreds of the treaty’s articles.

0:06:26.780,0:06:28.710
The fact of refusing to present a list[br]

0:06:28.710,0:06:30.850
of these laws without Parliament is

0:06:30.850,0:06:33.320
in itself, suspect, [br]why hide this reserved areas?

0:06:33.320,0:06:36.100
So here is an example of [br]an ordinary legislative procedure

0:06:36.100,0:06:38.066
and of a specific legislative procedure

0:06:38.066,0:06:39.390
regarding social politic.

0:06:39.800,0:06:42.546
The areas of codecisions [br]between parliament and ministers

0:06:42.546,0:06:43.750
are underligned in grey

0:06:43.750,0:06:47.530
and the areas where [br]the executive legislate alone

0:06:47.530,0:06:50.395
are underlined in black.

0:06:50.395,0:06:53.210
So, you see the article 153 TFUE[br]

0:06:53.210,0:06:55.710
which means you have [br]already read 152 articles.

0:06:55.710,0:06:56.655
[br]You are looking for[br]

0:06:56.655,0:06:58.340
the specific legislative procedures

0:06:58.340,0:06:59.920
and you arrive to the article 153

0:06:59.920,0:07:02.370
where you find :[br]“in order to realise the objectives

0:07:02.370,0:07:03.987
indicated on article 151.

0:07:03.987,0:07:06.150
[br]The union supports and completes blabla

0:07:06.370,0:07:07.470
in the following areas

0:07:07.470,0:07:09.080
and there, for now, we don’t see,

0:07:09.080,0:07:11.575
we don’t see yet why it is[br]a law without parliament.

0:07:11.575,0:07:13.570
You will see that in this other article,[br]

0:07:13.570,0:07:14.640
which you will realise

0:07:14.640,0:07:16.370
and you will see the serie of areas,

0:07:16.370,0:07:17.070
so, you have:

0:07:17.070,0:07:18.940
a/ the improvement to the individuals

0:07:18.940,0:07:19.990
b/ the work conditions

0:07:19.990,0:07:21.674
[br]so all the laws on social security[br][br]

0:07:21.674,0:07:23.443
the social protection of the workers[br][br]

0:07:23.443,0:07:25.365
all the laws on the protection of worker

0:07:25.365,0:07:26.475
in case of resignation

0:07:26.475,0:07:27.460
all the laws on…[br][br]

0:07:27.460,0:07:28.998
and you have a list like this

0:07:28.998,0:07:31.460
Well, you see that the union supports[br]

0:07:31.460,0:07:33.080
and completes the States actions

0:07:33.080,0:07:36.827
but here you can’t see yet [br]that it was – we can’t see that–

0:07:39.387,0:07:42.540
this is a specific legislative procedure.

0:07:42.540,0:07:45.410
So, wait, at what moment can we see it…

0:07:46.670,0:07:47.820
So I keep going[br][br]

0:07:47.820,0:07:49.791
for this purpose, the Parliament

0:07:49.791,0:07:51.290
I am at the end of this page 4[br][br]

0:07:51.290,0:07:54.416
2/ For this purpose, the parliament [br]and the council

0:07:54.416,0:07:58.129
can adopt measures [br]which aim to encourage (a/)

0:07:58.129,0:07:59.990
[br]b/ can stop in the areas[br]

0:07:59.990,0:08:02.410
indicated in paragraph 1. a/ to i/

0:08:05.730,0:08:07.640
by directive ways, minimal prescriptions[br]

0:08:07.640,0:08:08.808
applicable progressively

0:08:08.808,0:08:11.764
taking in consideration the conditions [br]of the technical rules

0:08:11.764,0:08:12.591
priorily existing

0:08:12.591,0:08:15.780
these directives avoid the obligation[br]of administrative restrictions

0:08:15.780,0:08:17.200
and you see that in the areas

0:08:17.200,0:08:18.500
-third paragraph of page 5-

0:08:18.500,0:08:20.290
[br]In the areas aimed at by paragraph[br]

0:08:20.290,0:08:23.280
.c, d, f and g of the present article

0:08:24.740,0:08:26.830
The council can decide in accordance with

0:08:27.010,0:08:29.221
a specific legislative procedure,

0:08:29.221,0:08:31.799
unanimously after consulting [br]the European Parliament,

0:08:31.799,0:08:33.370
the said committees...

0:08:33.370,0:08:35.810
Wait! I don’t know if you see the clutter,[br]

0:08:35.820,0:08:38.861
in which we have to – [br]and the constant concentration it needs-

0:08:38.861,0:08:41.059
to see that : “hey!”

0:08:41.059,0:08:43.390
[br]- and here I have underligned in black –

0:08:43.390,0:08:45.310
There are the areas indicated

0:08:45.310,0:08:46.980
in the paragraph blablabla

0:08:46.980,0:08:49.840
so we need to go backward [br]and find it highlighted in black,

0:08:49.840,0:08:51.350
the areas we are talking about,

0:08:51.350,0:08:52.849
these areas there,

0:08:52.849,0:08:55.894
the council decides… And this means [br]without the Parliament

0:08:55.894,0:08:57.922
and here you have a legislative procedure

0:08:57.922,0:09:01.150
where the council decides on [br]a simple advise of the Parliament.

0:09:01.150,0:09:04.639
Here, we have on points c/ d/ f/ and g/,

0:09:04.639,0:09:07.890
we have laws without Parliament.

0:09:07.890,0:09:09.733
So, what are these point there?

0:09:09.733,0:09:11.186
Maybe it’s unimportant points…

0:09:11.186,0:09:13.570
Maybe it’s points where [br]it is not really important

0:09:13.570,0:09:15.470
that our representatives discuss them

0:09:15.470,0:09:17.310
and are able to – publically – debate

0:09:17.310,0:09:20.460
of the discussions of[br]the European union on the topic.

0:09:20.460,0:09:22.530
Are they topic that do not count ?

0:09:22.530,0:09:25.260
The social security,[br]the social protection of the workers,

0:09:25.260,0:09:26.650
the protection of the workers

0:09:26.650,0:09:28.797
in case of termination[br]of the work contract.

0:09:28.797,0:09:31.130
Why MPs have no decision power on this?

0:09:31.130,0:09:33.450
Why ministers have to decide about that?

0:09:34.430,0:09:35.420
Maybe I am wrong…

0:09:35.420,0:09:38.077
I repeat, I am very « open » on this,

0:09:38.077,0:09:40.820
I just say we didn’t get [br]a debate on this topic.

0:09:40.820,0:09:42.740
We don’t manage to get a debate on this

0:09:42.740,0:09:44.340
and what I read, I find…

0:09:46.560,0:09:47.742
I don’t like it.

0:09:47.742,0:09:49.500
I don’t understand at all.

0:09:50.020,0:09:51.856
I try to put myself in their shoes,

0:09:51.856,0:09:53.790
I don’t understand why.

0:09:53.790,0:09:56.790
Why have we put in place [br]specific legislative procedures

0:09:56.790,0:09:58.085
where the ministres,

0:09:58.085,0:09:59.854
it’s the MINISTERS who decide

0:09:59.854,0:10:01.310
and not my parliament.

0:10:03.720,0:10:06.540
Participant : Wait… Where do [br]these ministers come from ?

0:10:06.710,0:10:09.670
They are not elected, [br]how did they become ministers

0:10:09.670,0:10:12.310
who took the decision [br]to put them as ministers?

0:10:12.310,0:10:14.350
Etienne : This depends on the governments.

0:10:14.350,0:10:15.791
It depends on the countries.

0:10:15.791,0:10:17.390
In some countries they are taken,

0:10:17.390,0:10:19.780
in England, they are chosen [br]amongst the MPs

0:10:19.780,0:10:20.940
but in France maybe…

0:10:20.940,0:10:23.540
How is he called the one who is candidate?

0:10:25.420,0:10:27.647
It can be people[br]who have never been elected.

0:10:27.647,0:10:30.180
It depends, it depends on the countries,

0:10:30.180,0:10:31.760
it depends on the circumstances

0:10:31.760,0:10:33.480
but it is not always elected people

0:10:33.480,0:10:36.650
and it is not people who are [br]accountable in front of a parliament.

0:10:36.650,0:10:41.011
Participant : In the specific topic [br]of social security

0:10:41.011,0:10:42.910
It will be minister of every country?

0:10:42.910,0:10:43.980
Etienne : Yes

0:10:43.980,0:10:45.700
Participant: one for each country ?

0:10:45.700,0:10:47.770
The decision will be taken unanimously?

0:10:47.770,0:10:48.660
Etienne: Yes

0:10:48.660,0:10:50.370
Yes it says unanimously here.

0:10:51.160,0:10:52.530
At the minister's unanimity.

0:10:52.530,0:10:53.420
Of every country ?

0:10:53.420,0:10:55.191
Yes, that’s it, without Parliament !

0:10:55.191,0:10:57.200
Well, with the advise of the parliaments.

0:10:57.200,0:10:58.340
… "After consulting"...

0:10:59.860,0:11:01.770
Participant : In France, the ministers [br]are not elected.

0:11:01.770,0:11:03.590
Etienne : Yes but wait, in France,

0:11:03.590,0:11:05.360
the laws are voted by the Parliament

0:11:05.540,0:11:07.140
but you are right to highlight

0:11:07.190,0:11:09.183
that the worm was already in the fruit.

0:11:09.243,0:11:11.920
We already have laws [br]without Parliament in France.

0:11:13.670,0:11:16.260
Yes all the regulatory power:

0:11:16.260,0:11:18.200
decrees, orders, …

0:11:18.800,0:11:21.673
There is already a lot of rules[br]in the constitution

0:11:21.673,0:11:22.966
of the 5th Republic.

0:11:22.966,0:11:24.600
That would make Montesquieu[br]

0:11:24.600,0:11:27.029
spin in his grave !

0:11:27.029,0:11:29.863
Which are the most total confusion [br]of powers

0:11:29.863,0:11:31.763
and in fact all the regressions

0:11:31.763,0:11:34.050
of the last 20 years of labour law,

0:11:34.050,0:11:37.220
they happen very much [br]by the regulatory power,

0:11:37.220,0:11:38.950
which means without the parliament.

0:11:38.950,0:11:41.300
It is the regulatory power

0:11:41.300,0:11:45.910
which is for me, an aberration.[br]The regulatory power...

0:11:45.910,0:11:48.449
There shouldn’t even be [br]a regulatory power.

0:11:48.449,0:11:51.700
We need to find something [br]which allows to decide

0:11:51.700,0:11:53.800
in all details, the application of laws.

0:11:53.800,0:11:55.870
I understand this,[br]I understand the purpose

0:11:55.870,0:11:59.440
I understand the aim, the justification.

0:11:59.440,0:12:01.191
You see, in France, in law,

0:12:01.191,0:12:05.020
you have the law which indicates[br]the general rules

0:12:05.020,0:12:08.440
and then the argument, [br]is that we cannot ask

0:12:08.440,0:12:11.060
to the parliament, [br]which is an assembly which discuss,

0:12:11.060,0:12:13.740
we cannot ask them to foresee [br]to all the little details,

0:12:13.740,0:12:14.990
the application of laws.

0:12:14.990,0:12:16.734
It is the official explanation[br]

0:12:18.284,0:12:19.610
but it is a lie…

0:12:19.610,0:12:21.090
Because it is all more serious

0:12:21.090,0:12:22.455
what we do with the rules.

0:12:22.455,0:12:25.040
This is the official explanation[br]of regulatory power,

0:12:25.040,0:12:28.209
of the power that we give – [br]which should be only the executive –

0:12:28.209,0:12:29.930
and which makes it the government.

0:12:29.930,0:12:31.410
We give him a power[br]

0:12:31.410,0:12:33.798
of production of mandatory standards,

0:12:33.798,0:12:37.890
with no limitation of time [br]and so serious and dangerous,

0:12:37.890,0:12:40.000
as dangerous as laws.

0:12:40.000,0:12:43.440
We give to the government [br]a power so powerful

0:12:43.440,0:12:45.807
that the Parliament, [br]with much less guarantees

0:12:45.807,0:12:48.520
that the public discussion [br]there is in the Parliament

0:12:48.520,0:12:51.380
with the possibility to put up, to discuss

0:12:51.380,0:12:52.689
with the assembly

0:12:52.689,0:12:54.040
a complete public debate.

0:12:54.040,0:12:56.010
When it is the government which decides[br]

0:12:56.010,0:12:57.553
throught the regulatory power,

0:12:57.553,0:12:58.900
it is a lot more obscure.

0:12:58.900,0:13:00.640
There is a lot less counter powers,

0:13:00.640,0:13:02.552
a lot less possible resistance.

0:13:04.302,0:13:06.990
It is fertile ground[br]

0:13:06.990,0:13:09.320
to infinite power abuse

0:13:09.320,0:13:10.810
with the regulatory power

0:13:11.770,0:13:12.700
but I am not saying

0:13:12.700,0:13:15.620
that we are going from the paradise [br]of French institutions

0:13:15.620,0:13:17.656
to the hell of European institutions.

0:13:17.656,0:13:19.330
I know that there is already,

0:13:20.360,0:13:22.610
that the situation is already [br]very serious,

0:13:22.610,0:13:24.720
in the 5th republic institutions

0:13:24.720,0:13:27.260
very unknown, unknown.

0:13:27.260,0:13:29.070
I studied a lot of constitutional law[br]

0:13:29.070,0:13:31.266
and when I read manuals of [br]constitutional law,

0:13:31.266,0:13:32.420
I don’t see this revolt[br]

0:13:32.420,0:13:34.246
against regulatory power for example.

0:13:34.246,0:13:36.470
The regulatory power [br]in the consitutional law

0:13:36.470,0:13:38.670
is presented like :[br]« Well, that’s how it is…,

0:13:38.670,0:13:41.203
That’s how it is, and [br]it is how it is since a while,

0:13:41.203,0:13:42.900
since 1958, and we get used to it…

0:13:42.900,0:13:44.700
And then, there were reasons,

0:13:44.700,0:13:46.000
here is what was invoked,

0:13:46.000,0:13:47.750
and then we switch to another topic

0:13:47.750,0:13:49.540
because a constitutional law’s manual

0:13:49.540,0:13:51.990
is very thick, [br]there are a lot of things to read.

0:13:52.270,0:13:54.620
I think it is against the common good[br]

0:13:54.620,0:13:55.856
to give to the government

0:13:55.856,0:13:57.630
a regulatory power so powerful.

0:13:57.630,0:13:59.790
I remind you that in [br]the institutions of 58,

0:13:59.790,0:14:01.960
it’s incredible! The power of the law,

0:14:01.960,0:14:04.100
the areas of the laws are listed,

0:14:04.100,0:14:06.500
there is a list of what the law can do.

0:14:06.500,0:14:08.310
So if it is listed, it is limited[br]

0:14:08.310,0:14:10.630
and the regulatory power, [br]it is all the rest.

0:14:13.960,0:14:15.201
One can clearly see

0:14:15.201,0:14:17.460
that it is De Gaulle [br]who wrote the rules.

0:14:19.070,0:14:21.820
Participant : Excuse me, [br]I would like to ask a question,

0:14:21.820,0:14:23.229
perhaps more subversive.

0:14:23.229,0:14:24.750
If you have a car breakdown,[br]

0:14:24.750,0:14:27.322
you don’t start voting

0:14:27.322,0:14:28.695
to decide what to do.

0:14:28.695,0:14:31.010
You know an expert, a garage[br][br]

0:14:31.010,0:14:32.365
who fixes your car.

0:14:33.755,0:14:36.854
I have the feeling that we await [br]from a constitution of laws

0:14:36.854,0:14:38.589
to solve problems,

0:14:38.589,0:14:41.740
to avoid people acting wrong,

0:14:41.740,0:14:43.157
as 2000 years ago or more,

0:14:43.157,0:14:45.806
we believed in spirits or religion.

0:14:45.806,0:14:47.600
In the end, you don’t believe that[br]

0:14:47.600,0:14:50.920
it is the human behaviour the issue?

0:14:50.920,0:14:52.720
Do we need laws[br]

0:14:52.720,0:14:54.740
to solve humans problems?

0:14:54.740,0:14:56.270
That’s what I am asking…[br]

0:14:56.270,0:14:57.900
Do we really need representatives?[br]

0:14:57.900,0:14:59.740
Etienne : Ah, it is not the same!

0:14:59.740,0:15:02.620
Participant : I talk about laws, [br]representatives, all that.

0:15:02.620,0:15:06.330
It is an absolute mess [br]which hides completely

0:15:06.330,0:15:08.420
our incompetence to manage problems.

0:15:08.420,0:15:11.000
Etienne : So I point out – [br]I did not bring that book-

0:15:11.000,0:15:13.600
but I recommend it very warmly,

0:15:13.600,0:15:16.590
maybe I should think of taking it [br]with me all the time.

0:15:16.590,0:15:18.830
There is, on the competency of people[br]

0:15:18.830,0:15:20.310
on the competency of humans

0:15:20.310,0:15:23.940
and the alleged, perhaps real

0:15:23.940,0:15:26.290
incompetency of the people

0:15:26.290,0:15:28.279
to decide about its own business.

0:15:28.279,0:15:30.209
There was a very interesting controversy[br]

0:15:30.209,0:15:32.790
in the middle of the twentieth century,[br]between a guy

0:15:32.790,0:15:35.839
who was called Lippman,[br]who was a journalist

0:15:35.839,0:15:38.833
at the international level, a big name

0:15:38.833,0:15:40.690
a brilliant brain which discussed

0:15:40.690,0:15:42.300
with all the greats of this world

0:15:42.300,0:15:43.980
who was a hardened liberal

0:15:43.980,0:15:45.250
who had a book called

0:15:45.250,0:15:46.670
“The phantom public”,

0:15:46.670,0:15:49.530
which has been recently republished,[br]which is a wonder.

0:15:49.530,0:15:51.890
Very smart, quite depressing,

0:15:51.890,0:15:55.300
which pretends we are not able,

0:15:55.300,0:15:57.260
that no one is able

0:15:57.260,0:16:01.866
to have an informed opinion on matters,

0:16:01.866,0:16:04.540
given the complexity of human problems.

0:16:06.150,0:16:07.790
So it is important what he says[br]

0:16:07.790,0:16:09.420
and he shows it

0:16:09.420,0:16:11.810
and it’s true that it is very well argued

0:16:11.810,0:16:15.490
and we feel, we feel that[br]he is entirely right,

0:16:15.490,0:16:17.140
but what said Lippman,

0:16:17.140,0:16:19.280
he didn’t only say that [br]people are unable,

0:16:19.280,0:16:21.390
he said that the governers TOO are unable.

0:16:21.390,0:16:23.580
That no one, on his opinion[br]is able to have…

0:16:25.220,0:16:27.580
To pretend taking the good decision[br]

0:16:28.250,0:16:31.190
and the interpreters, [br]the people who followed Lippman,

0:16:31.190,0:16:32.870
they forgot that Lippman had said

0:16:32.870,0:16:34.989
that not only the people was unable

0:16:34.989,0:16:37.586
but also the princes and governers.

0:16:37.806,0:16:39.893
Machiavel said that, Machiavel said also

0:16:39.893,0:16:44.360
that the people was [br]as virtuous as the princes,

0:16:44.360,0:16:47.320
that the princes were not[br]more virtuous than the people,

0:16:47.320,0:16:49.472
that the princes were not at all

0:16:49.472,0:16:50.810
more able to take decisions

0:16:50.810,0:16:51.940
than the people.

0:16:51.940,0:16:53.030
We find, in Machiavel,

0:16:53.030,0:16:54.590
much more than his caricature.

0:16:54.590,0:16:58.020
I recommend really to read Machiavel.

0:16:58.020,0:16:59.327
It’s a lot more interesting[br]

0:16:59.327,0:17:01.450
than the caricature [br]we make of him usually.

0:17:01.450,0:17:04.800
He was also looking for the common good,[br]it is very surprising.

0:17:04.800,0:17:07.540
So of course, there are features [br]specific to the time

0:17:07.540,0:17:09.140
which seem very brutal

0:17:09.140,0:17:12.280
but it’s much more nuanced

0:17:12.280,0:17:13.890
than the caricature often made.

0:17:13.890,0:17:16.000
But, to come back to what you were saying,

0:17:16.530,0:17:19.020
so Lippmann has written this book

0:17:19.020,0:17:20.000
“the phantom public”

0:17:20.000,0:17:21.960
defending the idea that we are not able,

0:17:21.960,0:17:23.710
and it’s totally linked to my topic,

0:17:23.710,0:17:27.082
I open the bracket because it is [br]completely linked to this thinking on

0:17:27.082,0:17:28.404
if we organize a democracy,

0:17:28.404,0:17:30.521
are we able to take decisions [br]by ourselves?

0:17:30.521,0:17:32.292
On our problems, on what concerns us.

0:17:32.292,0:17:33.690
So Lippmann pretended that no[br]

0:17:33.750,0:17:36.570
and he pretended that[br]our representatives couldn’t neither.

0:17:37.320,0:17:42.360
A great thinker who was called [br]Dewey (John)

0:17:44.020,0:17:45.790
who was a mathematician, a logician

0:17:46.520,0:17:49.010
and who was a survey theorist

0:17:49.340,0:17:53.480
who has worked a lot on the improvement[br]of people competence

0:17:53.970,0:17:56.230
from the survey method,

0:17:56.230,0:17:58.860
a little like Socrates led us to

0:17:58.860,0:18:01.041
progress by the thinking about ourselves,

0:18:01.961,0:18:06.850
Dewey was confident in the survey virtues[br]

0:18:07.920,0:18:10.738
in a working method, [br]he was a mathematician, a logician,

0:18:10.738,0:18:13.660
to improve our competency

0:18:13.660,0:18:14.791
and I think…

0:18:14.791,0:18:18.404
So the controversy between Lippman [br]and Dewey is brilliant,

0:18:18.404,0:18:21.610
absolutely exciting for us to understand,

0:18:21.610,0:18:23.930
furthermore in a very [br]comprensible language,

0:18:23.940,0:18:26.708
it is not complicated words,

0:18:28.068,0:18:31.429
these people there discuss about [br]the greater good in concrete terms.

0:18:31.429,0:18:36.040
Lippmann says : “ Humans are [br]not able to take decisions”.

0:18:36.040,0:18:37.880
So he tends ultimately

0:18:37.880,0:18:40.180
to justify a tyranny,

0:18:40.180,0:18:42.430
an enlighted despot who will be better

0:18:42.430,0:18:46.030
and then Dewey says : [br]“Not at all, if one has the means

0:18:46.030,0:18:49.196
to institutionalize the conditions [br]of a real survey,

0:18:49.196,0:18:51.176
honest and complete,

0:18:51.176,0:18:52.812
we will raise the level of people

0:18:52.812,0:18:54.500
which will allow for them to take

0:18:54.500,0:18:56.050
not so bad decisions.

0:19:00.100,0:19:02.470
In addition to this controversy,

0:19:02.470,0:19:03.996
with both these points of view,

0:19:03.996,0:19:05.460
I would like to highlight that

0:19:05.460,0:19:09.365
in drawn assemblies

0:19:09.365,0:19:13.890
and we have hundreds of examples[br]of drawn assemblies,

0:19:13.890,0:19:15.449
in the history of men,

0:19:15.449,0:19:19.100
the draw is not at all a newness,

0:19:19.100,0:19:21.050
we test the draw since a while,

0:19:21.050,0:19:23.160
I will talk about [br]the Athenian time later on

0:19:24.030,0:19:25.710
but today in the modern time,

0:19:25.710,0:19:28.477
there is a lot of assemblies, [br]citizen juries,

0:19:28.477,0:19:30.562
deliverative polls,..

0:19:30.762,0:19:32.947
Any kind of assemblies[br]

0:19:33.487,0:19:35.160
composed of ordinary people

0:19:35.160,0:19:36.927
to judge of technical topics

0:19:36.927,0:19:41.770
existed, and are an observation field.

0:19:41.770,0:19:44.003
An observatory which allows for knowing[br]

0:19:44.003,0:19:46.242
and so there is a book [br]which makes the summary,

0:19:46.242,0:19:47.570
a modern anthology called

0:19:47.570,0:19:49.111
« The power to the people »[br]

0:19:49.111,0:19:50.930
from Yves Sintomer.

0:19:50.930,0:19:52.848
This book here I recommend it to you.

0:19:52.848,0:19:54.750
It is a book which concerns the citizen[br]

0:19:54.750,0:19:56.110
because it is the history…

0:19:56.110,0:19:57.570
First, there is a good part

0:19:57.570,0:20:00.310
of how the Athenians [br]were drawn in Athenes,

0:20:00.500,0:20:02.140
so the procedure they were using.

0:20:02.140,0:20:03.673
Because every morning they drew

0:20:03.673,0:20:05.267
and so he explains how it worked.

0:20:05.267,0:20:06.341
The draw every morning

0:20:06.341,0:20:07.530
is very interesting![br]

0:20:09.650,0:20:11.280
The athenian example, you will see[br]

0:20:11.280,0:20:12.710
I am enthusiastic about this.

0:20:12.740,0:20:15.790
So Sintomer explains [br]in a part of his book,

0:20:15.790,0:20:18.901
a little quarter, he explains very well [br]the procedure.

0:20:18.901,0:20:21.826
But he also explains the experiences[br]

0:20:21.826,0:20:24.700
of citizen juries, of deliberative polls,

0:20:24.700,0:20:27.330
in which we study [br]the competency of people,

0:20:27.330,0:20:29.060
we study the decisions they take

0:20:29.060,0:20:30.861
and in the end we realise

0:20:30.861,0:20:33.430
that far from being the incompetents [br]we were promised,

0:20:33.430,0:20:36.857
far from being the drunken moron [br]who understand nothing about nothing,

0:20:36.857,0:20:39.090
who take care only of [br]their personal interest,

0:20:39.090,0:20:42.852
instead of taking care… and who are unable[br]to take care of the general interest.

0:20:42.852,0:20:44.320
It is not AT ALL what we see,

0:20:44.320,0:20:46.266
what we see when we put people together,

0:20:46.266,0:20:48.670
to take care of, to talk [br]about the greater good,

0:20:48.670,0:20:49.477
people CHANGE

0:20:49.477,0:20:51.970
when we give them … Care here…

0:20:51.970,0:20:54.070
When we give them the power[br]

0:20:54.070,0:20:55.986
of CHANGING things.

0:20:55.986,0:20:57.254
If you take the piss …[br]

0:20:57.254,0:20:58.365
If you laugh at them…[br]

0:20:58.385,0:20:59.274
–no bad words-

0:20:59.274,0:21:00.380
If you laugh at them[br]

0:21:00.380,0:21:03.260
and that you give them only[br]an advisory power

0:21:03.260,0:21:04.780
which means you let them work

0:21:04.780,0:21:06.923
and then it’s other people who [br]will decide,

0:21:06.923,0:21:09.410
for sure you will not get the effort.

0:21:09.410,0:21:11.220
You can't catch flies with vinegar.

0:21:11.220,0:21:15.198
You will not get from them the investment,

0:21:15.198,0:21:18.580
the efforts, the personal implication

0:21:18.580,0:21:20.160
which will change them

0:21:20.160,0:21:22.385
because you didn’t trust them.

0:21:22.385,0:21:23.840
I am a teacher.

0:21:23.840,0:21:25.829
I often talk about it in my conferences[br]

0:21:25.829,0:21:29.098
because this is really [br]what makes me believe.

0:21:29.098,0:21:30.661
I know because I experience it.

0:21:30.661,0:21:33.771
That when I trust someone,

0:21:33.771,0:21:36.651
he changes! In a good way

0:21:36.651,0:21:39.511
and in the opposite, when I don’t,

0:21:39.511,0:21:42.246
if I don't, he changes, in a bad way!

0:21:42.246,0:21:43.876
And people are not black or white,

0:21:43.876,0:21:45.416
they are not always the same,

0:21:45.416,0:21:47.066
it depends on the circumstances.

0:21:47.066,0:21:49.776
There are institutions which [br]push people in the good way

0:21:49.776,0:21:52.286
and institutions which push [br]people in the wrong way.

0:21:52.286,0:21:53.336
What I pretend is that

0:21:53.336,0:21:54.636
our institutions are closed

0:21:54.636,0:21:56.456
and they deter us from doing politics.

0:21:56.476,0:21:59.056
They deter us from making efforts [br]for the greater good

0:21:59.056,0:22:01.226
and that is why we look like [br]passive citizen

0:22:01.226,0:22:03.846
who don’t care about anything; [br]who are individualists

0:22:03.846,0:22:06.146
It’s multifactorial, [br]that’s not the whole of it.

0:22:06.146,0:22:08.236
But I think the role of [br]closed institutions

0:22:08.236,0:22:09.796
is important

0:22:09.796,0:22:12.026
in this situation of passive citizen.

0:22:12.026,0:22:14.506
I know it is not a panacea[br]what I'm talking about[br]

0:22:14.506,0:22:16.826
but I think more open institutions would

0:22:17.926,0:22:20.256
let people discuss on sorted assembly

0:22:21.856,0:22:24.936
or partially drawn if that scares you.

0:22:24.936,0:22:26.526
We'll talk about it in a minute.

0:22:26.526,0:22:30.056
Institutions which would allow people[br]

0:22:30.056,0:22:32.296
to discuss and DECIDE.

0:22:32.296,0:22:33.616
Really decide[br]

0:22:33.616,0:22:35.966
and therefore take the risk of being wrong[br]

0:22:35.966,0:22:37.356
with the possibility

0:22:37.356,0:22:39.176
when we realized they made a mistake

0:22:39.176,0:22:41.446
of changing decision to modify.

0:22:41.446,0:22:43.216
So, it's Institutional Assessment -[br]

0:22:43.216,0:22:44.986
which allows for decisions assessment[br][br]

0:22:44.986,0:22:45.796
and change.

0:22:45.796,0:22:47.916
These institutions there [br]if they were open ,

0:22:47.916,0:22:49.686
they'd transform us, I claim it.

0:22:49.686,0:22:50.466
Voilà, I ...[br]

0:22:50.466,0:22:54.056
and the institutions,… [br]the experiments of draw

0:22:54.056,0:22:55.746
that I observe in Sintomer's book[br]

0:22:55.746,0:22:57.206
I found them exciting[br]

0:22:57.206,0:22:59.326
because they point in the same direction,[br]

0:22:59.326,0:23:02.336
they show that, [br]when a meeting of Malians ,

0:23:02.336,0:23:04.116
so in Mali get together to ...

0:23:04.116,0:23:06.556
they are drawn to talk about … anyone ,[br]

0:23:06.556,0:23:08.626
There is a little of everything in there,[br]

0:23:08.626,0:23:11.496
there is a lot of farmers because[br]they have a lot of farmers

0:23:11.496,0:23:12.996
but there is not only farmers[br]

0:23:12.996,0:23:15.526
there is people of all socio-professional[br]categories.

0:23:15.526,0:23:18.206
and when these people get together [br]to talk about GMOs ,

0:23:18.206,0:23:19.646
they know nothing about GMOs[br]

0:23:19.646,0:23:20.926
and they are given credits[br]

0:23:20.926,0:23:22.806
and for months they work on the topic[br]

0:23:22.806,0:23:25.066
they bring in experts from[br]all around the world

0:23:25.066,0:23:26.316
They have credits for that[br]

0:23:26.316,0:23:27.646
They listen to the experts

0:23:27.646,0:23:29.986
then they bring in experts [br]with opposite opinions

0:23:29.986,0:23:31.006
in order to hear ...[br]

0:23:31.006,0:23:32.496
to hear all sides of the story.[br]

0:23:32.496,0:23:33.676
They hear them publicly,[br]

0:23:33.676,0:23:36.696
all of it is broadcasted on the radio, [br]on TV, on the internet.

0:23:36.706,0:23:39.476
People can attend [br]these deliberations ,

0:23:39.476,0:23:41.306
they can intervene and ask questions ,

0:23:41.306,0:23:43.576
they can say - you forgot to ask [br]this question

0:23:43.576,0:23:46.226
well the question is asked [br]to Monsanto when it comes

0:23:46.226,0:23:47.596
to explain why it wants GMOs[br]

0:23:47.596,0:23:50.666
then we will listen to the people [br]of the peasant confederation

0:23:50.666,0:23:52.406
to know why they don't want GMOs,[br]

0:23:52.406,0:23:54.826
then they listen to the peasants of [br]Latin America

0:23:54.826,0:23:56.426
Who are using GMOs and tell them [br]

0:23:56.426,0:23:57.956
"why did you decide to use GMOs?[br]

0:23:57.956,0:23:59.216
Are you happy about it? "[br]

0:23:59.216,0:24:01.086
and we hear all this, and after months,[br]

0:24:01.086,0:24:03.126
people who knew nothing become competent.[br]

0:24:03.126,0:24:05.556
Here. And that's exciting![br]

0:24:05.556,0:24:09.376
that's to say that practical experiments[br]confirm

0:24:09.800,0:24:12.160
what I tell you theoretically :

0:24:13.750,0:24:16.080
humans are political animals

0:24:16.080,0:24:17.330
but not at any price,[br]

0:24:17.330,0:24:21.220
If there is no stake, we do nothing[br]

0:24:21.220,0:24:22.950
because we have no reason to do so[br]

0:24:22.950,0:24:25.030
but if there is a stake and that[br]

0:24:25.030,0:24:27.750
if one tries hard, he can change things,[br]then we do it

0:24:27.750,0:24:32.150
You have seen in 2005, we were told that [br]we wouldn't discuss the institutions ,

0:24:32.150,0:24:34.620
that the constitution was a dusty text, [br]annoying ,

0:24:34.620,0:24:37.150
which pisses off everybody, [br]and noone would even care

0:24:37.150,0:24:39.960
that it wasn't worth bothering[br]with a referendum taratata...

0:24:39.960,0:24:41.990
There was a referendum,

0:24:41.990,0:24:44.280
we felt we could say yes, no; [br]there was a stake,

0:24:44.280,0:24:46.590
we started talking, [br]we were said we could change

0:24:46.590,0:24:47.960
but look how much we talked.[br]

0:24:47.960,0:24:50.430
It could have been better,[br]it was not long enough ,

0:24:50.430,0:24:53.460
we have not spoken of Part I as [br]we should have, in my opinion.

0:24:53.460,0:24:55.310
We should have been 80%, 90% to say no[br]

0:24:55.310,0:24:57.660
but because we have not had [br]the needed debate.

0:24:58.080,0:25:00.690
I think there are many people, friends ,[br]

0:25:00.690,0:25:03.290
with whom I discussed at length,[br]

0:25:03.290,0:25:07.730
Who have voted yes because we did not [br]have time to discuss as we should have,

0:25:08.240,0:25:09.440
I think it is…[br]

0:25:10.500,0:25:12.590
look how it changed us.[br]

0:25:14.665,0:25:19.115
So,about competence, I think we need laws[br]

0:25:19.115,0:25:22.685
I think when there is no law, it is[br]the law of the strongest that prevails

0:25:22.685,0:25:25.275
and it seems to me less fun[br]

0:25:25.275,0:25:27.365
The law of the strongest is everywhere .[br]

0:25:27.365,0:25:32.925
Our regime ruled by law is, [br]in the nature, quite exceptional ,

0:25:32.925,0:25:38.205
it is only human which makes prevail, [br]which imagine and enforce the rule of law.

0:25:38.205,0:25:39.994
and I think it's far from perfect[br]

0:25:39.994,0:25:43.194
and we'll see why when we'll speak of[br]the representative government

0:25:43.194,0:25:45.104
which is not democracy.

0:25:45.574,0:25:48.144
But still, it seems to me that [br]we have a tool

0:25:48.144,0:25:51.154
Which should help protecting us

0:25:51.154,0:25:54.834
Pacify us, give us a less painful life[br][br]

0:25:54.944,0:25:57.764
But do we really need representatives ?[br]

0:26:00.297,0:26:02.457
This really deserves a discussion.

0:26:02.457,0:26:04.397
Representatives as we have today[br]

0:26:04.397,0:26:07.667
these representatives to whom, [br]every 5 years ,

0:26:07.667,0:26:11.027
we give all powers without being able[br]to choose them

0:26:11.027,0:26:12.977
Because the choice is a false choice,[br]

0:26:12.977,0:26:15.617
people I vote for, I have not chosen [br]them at all.

0:26:15.617,0:26:18.227
I chose between people I have not chosen

0:26:20.997,0:26:23.727
This example, is an academic example of[br]a false choice

0:26:23.727,0:26:26.137
The examples presented to us [br]during elections

0:26:26.137,0:26:29.537
are not real choices, it's not me [br]who has chosen these candidates

0:26:30.047,0:26:31.747
So, you give all the powers,[br]

0:26:31.747,0:26:34.917
because that is exactly what is it, [br]I give absolutely all powers

0:26:34.917,0:26:36.897
to people I did not choose,[br]

0:26:36.897,0:26:39.377
and then without being able, [br]during the mandate

0:26:39.377,0:26:42.877
without having the slightest possibility[br]of revoking ,

0:26:42.877,0:26:47.387
Or put into question, or even [br]challenge their laws ,

0:26:47.387,0:26:49.217
without having any mean of ...[br]

0:26:49.217,0:26:51.937
It doesn't seem at all, at all, [br]at all desirable to me.

0:26:51.937,0:26:54.421
But this, it is not at all democracy ,[br]

0:26:54.421,0:26:57.501
they call it democracy because[br]they know that we want democracy.

0:26:57.501,0:27:00.161
and because they have understood,[br]and this is fabulous ,

0:27:00.161,0:27:03.271
that's really smart to play with words[br]like that.

0:27:03.271,0:27:06.381
By calling a regime that is the absolute[br]antithesis of democracy ,

0:27:06.381,0:27:09.091
which is the opposite ... [br]when you choose your masters ,

0:27:09.091,0:27:11.131
people who will choose everything[br]for you ,

0:27:11.131,0:27:13.621
it means that mechanically, it is not you [br]who decide

0:27:13.621,0:27:14.811
so this is not democracy[br]

0:27:14.811,0:27:18.211
If it is not you who decide, it means[br]that we are not in a democracy.

0:27:18.211,0:27:21.871
The democracy, I'm sorry, [br]it's a matter of definition.

0:27:21.871,0:27:25.351
Well, we can discuss this if you want[br]because everything can be discussed

0:27:25.351,0:27:30.721
but a democracy worthy of the name is not [br]what the current system is.

0:27:30.721,0:27:33.359
The current regime is the opposite:[br]it is a regime ... ,

0:27:33.359,0:27:36.799
perhaps defensible but it should not [br]be called democracy

0:27:36.799,0:27:42.179
and when it's called democracy, [br]we get intellectually stucked,

0:27:42.179,0:27:45.559
consciously or not, I don't care but [br]we find ourselves bogged down

0:27:45.559,0:27:49.259
in a situation in which, [br]we call a situation

0:27:49.259,0:27:52.249
which is problematic [br]with the name of its solution.

0:27:54.249,0:27:56.349
So we don't manage to formulate[br]the solution.

0:27:56.349,0:27:57.929
We can not say "I want democracy"[br]

0:27:57.929,0:28:00.079
because we're told [br]"but you already have it"

0:28:00.079,0:28:01.749
"but gnagnagna you play with words"[br]

0:28:01.749,0:28:03.949
We have to stop using the word[br]"democracy"

0:28:03.949,0:28:05.819
when talking about the current regime.

0:28:05.819,0:28:07.579
The system we live in is not at all

0:28:07.579,0:28:09.689
and was never intended as a democracy.[br]

0:28:09.689,0:28:14.019
It is allegedly democratic since[br]the early 19th century

0:28:14.019,0:28:16.829
but it was not thought of, to start with, [br]as a democracy ,

0:28:16.829,0:28:20.669
it was thought as an elective aristocracy [br]where the best ones are designated ,

0:28:20.669,0:28:23.789
where people refers to those [br]who will decide in their behalf

0:28:23.899,0:28:26.469
and the designers of the current regime, [br]

0:28:26.469,0:28:29.469
which is to be called[br]representative government ,

0:28:29.469,0:28:32.249
knew it very well ... [br]they did it knowingly ,

0:28:32.249,0:28:36.059
it is not by chance, they knew very well [br]they were not instituting a democracy.

0:28:36.059,0:28:38.099
They wanted it not to be a democracy ,[br]

0:28:38.575,0:28:40.755
They knew democracy, they knew what it is[br]

0:28:40.755,0:28:42.755
and they did not want it.[br]

0:28:42.755,0:28:44.975
and today we call this regime a democracy.[br]

0:28:48.515,0:28:51.975
When we will talk in a minute[br]about what characterizes a democracy

0:28:51.975,0:28:54.895
and which allowed for the Athenians[br]to make

0:28:54.895,0:28:56.595
a democracy worthy of the name work[br]

0:28:56.595,0:28:57.955
during two hundred years[br]

0:28:57.955,0:29:00.675
and what it had of extraordinarily[br]attractive for today ,

0:29:00.675,0:29:02.955
you will see that the workings [br]of a democracy ,

0:29:02.955,0:29:05.935
have absolutely nothing to do [br]with what we are living today.

0:29:05.935,0:29:09.155
So I think I answered the bracket [br]for a little too long ... but hey

0:29:09.155,0:29:11.775
Presenter: Etienne, [br]I will suggest a short break ,

0:29:11.775,0:29:13.535
we said we would make a break at 7:30 [br]

0:29:13.535,0:29:16.055
we passed the time quite a bit. [br]For those who want ,

0:29:16.055,0:29:19.085
there is something to eat, sandwiches ,[br]

0:29:19.085,0:29:21.895
beers, juice, water, etc. next door.[br]

0:29:21.895,0:29:25.115
and we come back at, [br]let's say, at ten to, a quarter to ten

0:29:25.115,0:29:27.605
Etienne: you 're not getting bored yet?[br]

0:29:27.605,0:29:36.385
(Laughter) (din)[br]