0:00:00.000,0:00:02.620 ♪ (music) ♪ 0:00:02.620,0:00:05.660 Live from the University of Texas[br]at Austin 0:00:05.660,0:00:07.660 The Liberal Arts Development[br]Studio, 0:00:07.660,0:00:09.700 and the College of Liberal[br]Arts, present: 0:00:09.700,0:00:13.370 Introduction to Human Dimensions of[br]Organizations. 0:00:13.370,0:00:17.980 And now, here is your professor, [br]Doctor Art Markman. 0:00:19.110,0:00:23.324 Hey, everybody, it is Monday, it's our[br]first Monday together, 0:00:23.324,0:00:26.581 and we have folks in the studio again, [br]say "hello," everybody. 0:00:26.581,0:00:28.121 Students off camera: Hello! 0:00:28.121,0:00:30.811 Alright, hope you could hear that[br]at home. 0:00:30.811,0:00:33.371 Yeah, so I'm excited to be here, 0:00:33.371,0:00:39.041 and hope that the Longhorn loss on [br]Saturday didn't drag the weekend 0:00:39.041,0:00:41.311 down for too many people. 0:00:41.311,0:00:46.251 But, what we're going to do today is we're[br]gonna shift disciplines a little bit. 0:00:46.251,0:00:49.050 So, if you think about where we were last[br]class, 0:00:49.050,0:00:52.350 we were talking about sociology[br]and anthropology, 0:00:52.350,0:00:57.530 we were talking about the kinds of [br]relationships that people engage in, 0:00:57.530,0:01:01.597 we talked a little bit about the content[br]there, the four types of relationships, 0:01:01.597,0:01:05.892 we talked about methodology, [br]how in the world would you study this, 0:01:05.892,0:01:07.529 and then we talked about practice, 0:01:07.529,0:01:10.459 that is, what is the influence of these[br]kinds of relationships 0:01:10.459,0:01:12.999 on the way that people negotiate[br]with each other. 0:01:12.999,0:01:16.699 So we went through that in the field of[br]a social science, 0:01:16.699,0:01:18.089 and now we're gonna shift and 0:01:18.089,0:01:19.689 we're going to move[br]to one of the humanities. 0:01:19.689,0:01:22.019 In particular, we're going to talk about[br]history. 0:01:22.019,0:01:25.459 And, in fact, history is going to make up[br]several of the next lectures. 0:01:25.459,0:01:28.149 So today, we're going to talk about some[br]ancient history, 0:01:28.149,0:01:30.399 going back to ancient Greece. 0:01:30.399,0:01:33.259 Then next class, we're going to shift to[br]something more modern, 0:01:33.259,0:01:37.769 go to the 1970's, where we're going to [br]talk a little bit about Nixon, 0:01:37.769,0:01:41.059 and his ability to open up a relationship[br]with China, 0:01:41.059,0:01:45.059 and then, the following week, actually[br]on the following Wednesday, 0:01:45.059,0:01:49.479 we're going to have a special guest in [br]class. An actual, live historian, 0:01:49.479,0:01:51.690 who's going to talk a little bit about[br]what it means 0:01:51.690,0:01:54.370 to do research in history. 0:01:54.370,0:01:58.070 And so, the focus today and on [br]Wednesday is going to be 0:01:58.070,0:02:03.520 on the content and practice associated[br]with these episodes from history. 0:02:03.537,0:02:07.927 And then, we'll have one special class[br]where we'll talk about methodology 0:02:07.928,0:02:08.798 in history. 0:02:08.798,0:02:11.958 So that's kind of where things are going[br]to be going. 0:02:11.958,0:02:15.848 We're going to focus today a little bit[br]on the concept of power, 0:02:15.848,0:02:18.208 and how that relates to negotiation. 0:02:18.208,0:02:20.748 And we're going to start by thinking[br]about the concept of power 0:02:20.748,0:02:25.408 by actually looking at a negotiation back [br]from Ancient Greece. 0:02:25.408,0:02:29.837 So we're going to talk about what happens[br]when you can dictate the terms, 0:02:29.837,0:02:34.905 because you are negotiating from a [br]position of extreme strength and power. 0:02:34.905,0:02:37.248 We'll focus on the Melian Dialogue, 0:02:37.248,0:02:41.248 which was written as part of the history [br]of the Peloponnesian War 0:02:41.248,0:02:44.348 by, it was written by Thucydides. 0:02:44.348,0:02:46.408 And then we'll actually ask the question: [br] 0:02:46.408,0:02:49.328 So, should the powerful folks always[br]win? 0:02:49.328,0:02:51.358 Should they always get what they want? 0:02:51.358,0:02:53.038 And what does that mean? 0:02:53.038,0:02:56.128 And that'll actually touch on some of the[br]ethical issues associated 0:02:56.128,0:02:58.138 with using your power. 0:02:58.138,0:03:00.668 And along the way, I'm going to have to [br]show you a map. 0:03:00.668,0:03:03.048 So, there's a cool map utility [br]we've got here, 0:03:03.048,0:03:05.788 so you're going to get to see me [br]fumble with technology 0:03:05.788,0:03:08.538 in yet a new way this class. 0:03:08.538,0:03:11.588 So, to get started, I want you all to[br]think for a moment -- in fact, 0:03:11.588,0:03:14.348 I'm going to give you ten or fifteen[br]seconds to write this down 0:03:14.348,0:03:15.328 for yourself -- 0:03:15.328,0:03:18.548 I want you to ask yourself:[br]What is power? 0:03:18.548,0:03:22.358 So take a moment, and just write[br]this down. 0:03:22.358,0:03:26.798 If you hear about the concept of power,[br]what exactly does that mean? 0:03:26.798,0:03:31.759 (pause) 0:03:31.759,0:03:33.622 This, by the way, is not your quiz, 0:03:33.622,0:03:37.702 that'll come later, this is just[br]something to write down. 0:03:37.702,0:03:41.212 And after you've thought a little bit[br]about the concept of power, 0:03:41.212,0:03:44.172 I want you to also think a little bit[br]about negotation. 0:03:44.172,0:03:47.132 So remember, we talked about this idea of[br]negotiation being: 0:03:47.132,0:03:51.962 we've got conflicting goals, we've got two[br]parties or sometimes more parties, 0:03:51.962,0:03:55.652 but let's just think about two[br]different parties working together, 0:03:55.652,0:03:58.592 they have conflicting goals, [br]they are negotiating in order 0:03:58.592,0:04:04.152 to try to figure out who's going to get[br]what they want in the course 0:04:04.152,0:04:06.457 of achieving those goals. 0:04:06.457,0:04:10.567 So now I want you to think for a second, [br]having written down your 0:04:10.567,0:04:12.411 definition of power, 0:04:12.411,0:04:16.651 I want you to write down: what does power[br]allow you to do when you're negotiating? 0:04:16.651,0:04:22.331 (pause) 0:04:22.331,0:04:24.288 Take a couple of seconds to do that. 0:04:24.288,0:04:38.618 (pause) 0:04:38.618,0:04:42.490 You can even chat with each other about [br]this on the chat facility, if you want. 0:04:42.490,0:04:46.673 But the reason I want you to do this [br]is because whenever we're teaching 0:04:46.673,0:04:50.973 anything, one of the things that we're [br]trying to do is to have you 0:04:50.977,0:04:54.149 actually make your own bets on things, 0:04:54.149,0:04:58.101 that is, to really think about:[br]"Well, what do I know already?" 0:04:58.101,0:05:01.827 The issue isn't to be right or to wrong. 0:05:01.827,0:05:05.084 It's that we want to influence the way[br]that you're thinking about things 0:05:05.084,0:05:08.459 and so the best way to do that is, for us[br]to pull that up from your memory 0:05:08.459,0:05:12.528 so that it's a concept that active[br]and ready for you to play with. 0:05:12.528,0:05:15.824 And then we can manipulate that[br]concept a little bit. 0:05:15.824,0:05:17.414 So when I ask these kinds of questions, 0:05:17.414,0:05:21.454 it's really just to get you thinking[br]about these kinds of concepts. 0:05:21.454,0:05:24.528 So, if we think about the notion[br]of what is power, 0:05:24.528,0:05:30.540 let's actually dive into this by asking: [br]"Well, what can you do with power?" 0:05:30.540,0:05:35.455 So, power could be physical strength,[br]but it need not be physical strength, 0:05:35.455,0:05:41.708 power can also be, can also involve, [br]having control over resources, 0:05:41.708,0:05:47.665 because a lot of what power is all about[br]is the ability to control an outcome. 0:05:47.665,0:05:51.827 So, if you think about life, anytime[br]you engage in an action, 0:05:52.279,0:05:58.097 there is the influence of the [br]circumstance of what's going on, 0:05:58.097,0:06:01.352 and then there's the influence over what[br]you bring to the table: 0:06:01.352,0:06:06.618 your physical attributes, your mental [br]attributes, your resources. 0:06:06.618,0:06:09.044 And so, think about it like this. 0:06:09.044,0:06:13.410 To the degree that you can control [br]what's going to happen next, 0:06:13.410,0:06:17.262 rather than the circumstances controlling[br]what's going to happen next, 0:06:17.262,0:06:19.087 you have a degree of power. 0:06:19.440,0:06:24.437 And, to the extent that the circumstance[br]is controlling what's going on, 0:06:24.437,0:06:27.123 then the circumstance has the power, 0:06:27.123,0:06:28.377 and you really don't. 0:06:28.862,0:06:33.769 And so, the circumstance could be [br]the physical situation, right, 0:06:33.769,0:06:40.219 if you're caught in a tidal wave, [br]then it's a physical circumstance 0:06:40.219,0:06:42.017 that has overpowered you. 0:06:42.363,0:06:44.905 But, you might also be[br]in a social environment, 0:06:44.905,0:06:49.164 in which someone else has physical[br]strength, or resources, or something else. 0:06:49.164,0:06:51.225 And that gives them the power. 0:06:51.225,0:06:54.879 So, to the extent that the situation is [br]governing what's going on, 0:06:54.879,0:06:57.041 you are relatively powerless. 0:06:57.041,0:06:59.931 And, to the extent that you can actually[br]influence what's going to happen, 0:06:59.931,0:07:01.880 you have some degree of power. 0:07:01.880,0:07:07.087 And, the factors that create that power[br]depend on the nature of the circumstance. 0:07:08.154,0:07:12.928 If you're playing defensive line for the[br]Longhorns, 0:07:13.076,0:07:16.635 then it is physical strength that guides[br]power, 0:07:16.635,0:07:19.875 and a little bit of mental understanding[br]of what's going on in the game. 0:07:20.584,0:07:24.012 If you are negotiating with someone [br]over a business deal, 0:07:24.012,0:07:26.488 then your physical strength may not [br]matter so much, 0:07:26.488,0:07:29.131 but your economic strength [br]might matter. 0:07:29.426,0:07:33.122 And, of course, as you read in the[br]Melian Dialogue, 0:07:33.122,0:07:37.081 we had Athens who was a military[br]power, 0:07:37.081,0:07:39.997 so they had a tremendous amount of[br]military strength that they were 0:07:39.997,0:07:44.208 bringing to bear, that enabled them to[br]influence outcomes. 0:07:45.002,0:07:48.172 And so, when you have a degree of power, 0:07:48.172,0:07:51.492 one of the things that that enables you to[br]do in a negotiation 0:07:51.492,0:07:54.852 is to begin to control that outcome. 0:07:54.852,0:08:01.411 Now, in some negotiations, [br]one side has most or all of the power, 0:08:01.411,0:08:04.541 in which case, they have an opportunity[br]to really dictate 0:08:04.541,0:08:06.606 everything that's going to go on. 0:08:06.606,0:08:11.376 In many negotiations, of course, each [br]party has some source of power, 0:08:11.376,0:08:14.414 that they will bring to bear on [br]the negotiation. 0:08:14.770,0:08:18.610 So, for example, if you think about[br]labor negotiations for a second. 0:08:18.610,0:08:23.102 You have the employer, [br]who has a certain amount of power, 0:08:23.102,0:08:26.241 because they get to decide how much[br]they'd like to pay people, 0:08:26.241,0:08:30.297 what resources they're going to bring[br]to that employment situation. 0:08:30.297,0:08:34.307 But if you have a labor negotiation,[br]let's say with a union, 0:08:34.307,0:08:36.739 or some kind of collective bargaining, 0:08:36.739,0:08:40.841 then the employees also have some [br]potential power, 0:08:40.841,0:08:45.238 because they might choose not to come[br]to work, or to slow things down at work. 0:08:45.238,0:08:48.924 And so, each side is exerting it's power [br] 0:08:48.924,0:08:51.873 in order to try to come to[br]some accommodation, 0:08:51.873,0:08:57.558 because presumably the employer wants[br]to pay as little as possible, 0:08:57.558,0:09:00.629 in order to get the work they want[br]out of people. 0:09:00.629,0:09:03.827 While the employees would like[br]to make as much as they can. 0:09:03.827,0:09:06.455 And, of course, that's a bit of an [br]over-simplification of 0:09:06.455,0:09:08.549 the way that labor negotiations work, 0:09:08.549,0:09:10.444 but you have a conflict of interest, 0:09:10.444,0:09:13.025 and different sides have different[br]amounts of power. 0:09:13.025,0:09:17.695 And, in fact, if you think about trying[br]to development a certain amount of power 0:09:17.695,0:09:19.392 in a negotiation context 0:09:19.392,0:09:22.325 -- one of the reasons that unions[br]developed in the first place -- 0:09:22.325,0:09:27.630 is because when people negotiated as[br]individuals against a big company 0:09:27.630,0:09:31.097 it's often very difficult for the [br]individual to have any power at all, 0:09:31.097,0:09:33.824 because if that person chooses not to[br]come to work, 0:09:33.824,0:09:37.152 there might be plenty of other[br]people who are willing to come in. 0:09:37.662,0:09:41.640 And it is that collection of individuals[br]that provides more power 0:09:41.640,0:09:44.591 to the folks on the[br]employment side, 0:09:44.591,0:09:49.928 and that gives them a little bit more[br]opportunity to try to control the outcome. 0:09:49.928,0:09:52.627 So again, this concept of power is that: 0:09:52.627,0:09:57.166 whatever the circumstance is, it is[br]the ability to have some amount of 0:09:57.166,0:09:59.435 control over the situation, 0:09:59.435,0:10:03.436 rather than having the situation and the[br]people in it having some degree 0:10:03.436,0:10:05.041 of control over you. 0:10:05.041,0:10:07.033 So that's really where we're [br]going with this. 0:10:08.628,0:10:11.127 And, by the way, as we get into the[br]Melian Dialogue, 0:10:11.140,0:10:14.963 what I want you to be thinking about[br]is -- a lot of times we're going to 0:10:14.963,0:10:18.272 use terms, and I'm going to seemingly[br]belabor the point here, 0:10:18.272,0:10:22.433 where I'm going to, you know, [br]dig into what some of these terms mean -- 0:10:22.471,0:10:26.129 and part of the reason for doing that is[br]because a lot of times 0:10:26.129,0:10:29.929 we throw words around without [br]necessarily really thinking deeply 0:10:29.929,0:10:32.200 about what influence they have. 0:10:32.427,0:10:36.288 The more that you understand where[br]these terms come from, 0:10:36.288,0:10:37.507 and what they mean, 0:10:37.507,0:10:41.074 the better able you're going to be [br]to manipulate those when 0:10:41.074,0:10:43.946 you're in a situation in which[br]you have to influence what's happening. 0:10:44.620,0:10:46.897 Alright lets dive into the Melian Dialogue 0:10:46.897,0:10:51.708 So, the Melian Dialogue involves[br]the island of Melos, 0:10:52.688,0:10:56.435 and the Melian Dialogue happened on the[br]island of Melos between 0:10:56.608,0:10:58.938 Athens and the Melians. 0:10:59.351,0:11:04.688 And this was an invent that was [br]laid out by Thucydides. 0:11:04.688,0:11:07.740 And Thucydides was an ancient Greek [br]historian, 0:11:07.740,0:11:11.975 so he was born about 460 BCE 0:11:11.975,0:11:15.010 -- and remember the years as we get up [br]to the start of the common era 0:11:15.010,0:11:17.778 will count downward until we get to zero, 0:11:17.778,0:11:20.752 and then we'll move up to the common era[br]dates that, 0:11:20.752,0:11:24.735 we're in 2019 now, as I'm taping this -- 0:11:24.735,0:11:28.917 So, he was born about 460, [br]and of course oddly enough 0:11:28.917,0:11:31.249 people didn't really have good birth[br]certificates back then, 0:11:31.249,0:11:34.097 so we just know he was born [br]in that vicinity. 0:11:34.097,0:11:37.684 And he died sometime after 404. 0:11:37.684,0:11:40.240 He was the son of a wealthy Athenian, 0:11:40.240,0:11:43.570 and, of course, if you go back to ancient [br]Greece or ancient Rome, 0:11:43.570,0:11:47.517 a lot of what we know about that era[br]tends to be stuff that comes from 0:11:47.517,0:11:49.786 people who had some degree of wealth. 0:11:49.786,0:11:53.082 Unfortunately, we don't learn a lot[br]about the people who are 0:11:53.082,0:11:55.200 sort of the common folks, 0:11:55.200,0:11:58.430 because they didn't necessarily have[br]access to the ability 0:11:58.430,0:12:00.349 to write a history of things. 0:12:00.349,0:12:05.045 A lot of what we learn about the daily [br]life of the more common folks 0:12:05.045,0:12:08.710 during these eras comes from[br]archaeological digs, 0:12:08.710,0:12:11.787 in which we're able to look at housing[br]and what people ate, 0:12:11.787,0:12:13.092 and things like that. 0:12:13.092,0:12:15.109 There isn't as much of a written record. 0:12:15.109,0:12:20.146 So we tend to get records from wealthy[br]folks and people who 0:12:20.146,0:12:23.459 played significant roles during [br]that period of history. 0:12:23.459,0:12:27.217 So, what we have is Thucydides[br]who wrote a history of 0:12:27.217,0:12:28.715 the Peloponnesian War. 0:12:28.715,0:12:33.193 He was a general during the war, so [br]played a pretty prominent role, 0:12:33.193,0:12:35.279 got that generalship in part because 0:12:35.279,0:12:38.772 he was already part of the wealthy[br]class in Athens. 0:12:38.772,0:12:43.557 And after the war was over, he wrote[br]a history of the war that 0:12:43.557,0:12:47.184 provides a tremendous amount about[br]what we know now about 0:12:47.184,0:12:48.793 the Peloponnesian War. 0:12:49.592,0:12:53.057 And so, what in the world is the [br]Peloponnesian War? 0:12:53.057,0:12:56.147 Well, it is a conflict between two[br]nation-states: 0:12:56.147,0:12:58.137 Athens and Sparta. 0:12:58.137,0:13:01.887 And they differed in a variety of ways,[br]and in particular, 0:13:01.887,0:13:06.745 they differed sort of politically and[br]in their overall orientation 0:13:06.745,0:13:09.106 towards thinking about life. 0:13:09.492,0:13:13.768 So Sparta was a monarchy, so they[br]had a king. 0:13:13.768,0:13:15.968 They were fairly conservative, 0:13:15.968,0:13:19.194 meaning that they were[br]resistant to cultural change. 0:13:19.194,0:13:23.219 They really wanted to keep things[br]relatively the same as they had been 0:13:23.219,0:13:24.679 for many years. 0:13:24.679,0:13:32.807 And so, they represented one pole of[br]society in the area around Greece. 0:13:32.807,0:13:34.636 And then there was Athens. 0:13:34.636,0:13:36.767 And Athens was a second nation-state. 0:13:36.767,0:13:42.539 This was a democracy, so there was [br]actually more power given to the people. 0:13:44.179,0:13:47.450 And, Athens was a much more innovative[br]society. 0:13:47.450,0:13:50.920 They really were interested in innovation[br]in a variety of ways: 0:13:50.920,0:13:58.040 innovation politically, innovation in[br]terms of invention and technology, 0:13:58.040,0:14:02.680 and so it was a much more open[br]and free-flowing society. 0:14:02.696,0:14:09.014 And, you know, often we see conflicts[br]that occur between groups that are 0:14:09.014,0:14:12.261 relatively more open, and groups that are[br]relatively more traditional 0:14:12.261,0:14:15.726 because that creates a significant [br]conflict of interest. 0:14:15.726,0:14:19.881 And, at some point, when a conflict [br]of interest breaks down, 0:14:20.224,0:14:22.262 and so you try to negotiate, 0:14:22.262,0:14:26.336 whenever you have, you know,[br]a conflict between nation-states, 0:14:26.336,0:14:30.109 one of the things that happens is you [br]often start by trying to negotiate, 0:14:30.109,0:14:32.126 and when negotiations break down, 0:14:32.126,0:14:36.220 you need some other mode of [br]resolving a conflict. 0:14:36.220,0:14:40.333 And, of course, in the second-third and[br]the middle-third of this class, 0:14:40.333,0:14:45.115 we're going to talk a lot about [br]different modes of conflict resolution. 0:14:45.115,0:14:48.533 But one of them we're probably[br]not going to spend a ton of time on, 0:14:48.533,0:14:50.269 is open warfare. 0:14:50.269,0:14:52.623 And that's something that happens[br]between nations 0:14:52.623,0:14:54.681 where you can't resolve the conflict, 0:14:54.681,0:14:55.904 so what do you end up doing? 0:14:55.904,0:14:59.560 You end up going to war and bringing [br]your military strength to bear on this. 0:15:00.169,0:15:06.469 So the conflict between Sparta and Athens[br]boils over and turns into a war, 0:15:06.469,0:15:10.732 the Peloponnesian War began in[br]431 BCE, 0:15:10.732,0:15:15.583 and the first phase of the war[br]lasts for ten years. 0:15:15.583,0:15:18.021 And I want you to think for a moment [br]about this. 0:15:18.021,0:15:21.316 You know, when you think about wars [br]in the modern era, 0:15:21.316,0:15:24.877 many of the wars that we hear about[br]are really not that long, right? 0:15:25.707,0:15:30.513 You know, World War One, the US [br]is involved in this for three years. 0:15:30.902,0:15:35.676 World War Two, the United States [br]is involved, you know, for five years. 0:15:35.676,0:15:39.754 And these are relatively short, and these[br]feel like long wars to us, 0:15:39.754,0:15:43.171 and yet they really were [br]much shorter than something 0:15:43.171,0:15:45.128 like the Peloponnesian war, 0:15:45.128,0:15:48.384 in part, of course, because you don't[br]have airplanes 0:15:48.384,0:15:50.355 that can get around the world in a day. 0:15:50.355,0:15:52.370 And so, when someone's going to go to war, 0:15:52.370,0:15:54.471 they're going to have to sail to [br]get there. 0:15:54.471,0:15:58.842 And, so, I'll show you a map in a[br]few moments of the area, 0:15:58.842,0:16:01.134 but in order to get from one place[br]to another, 0:16:01.134,0:16:02.401 you're hopping on a boat. 0:16:02.401,0:16:04.749 So everything takes a fair amount of time, 0:16:04.749,0:16:08.255 and there's a lot of seige warfare, 0:16:08.255,0:16:11.739 where you surround a place for a while,[br]try to starve people out. 0:16:11.739,0:16:14.675 So, warfare takes place over a long[br]period of time. 0:16:14.675,0:16:17.146 The Peloponnesian War no exception[br]to that. 0:16:17.146,0:16:20.709 So, the first phase of the war about ten[br]years long. 0:16:20.709,0:16:24.427 And it's really Athens is the one who's[br]leading here, 0:16:24.427,0:16:28.508 they're the ones who are having the [br]primary success. 0:16:28.508,0:16:32.872 And then, then there was 'half-time', [br]there was a seven-year truce 0:16:32.872,0:16:35.832 where they tried to work things out[br]via negotiation, 0:16:36.582,0:16:41.681 and so, and towards the end of [br]that seven-year truce is when 0:16:41.665,0:16:44.765 we're going to pick up the story[br]with the conquest of Melos, 0:16:44.765,0:16:47.295 which happened in 416 BCE. 0:16:48.126,0:16:52.182 And you'll notice that this is really [br]towards the end of 'half-time', 0:16:52.353,0:16:58.252 and then the war becomes[br]a kind of hot war again, 0:16:58.252,0:17:04.605 an open war, starting in [br]let's see, it's 414. 0:17:04.605,0:17:07.091 And it lasts another ten years, 0:17:07.091,0:17:10.129 and the second phase of the war favors[br]Sparta. 0:17:10.129,0:17:11.983 And this is going to become[br]important, 0:17:11.983,0:17:13.990 so what I want you to [br]remember here is: 0:17:13.990,0:17:18.581 first half of the war, Athens is largely [br]the one who's the victor, 0:17:18.581,0:17:20.130 then there's the truce, 0:17:20.130,0:17:23.238 then in the second phase we're going[br]to see that Sparta ends up [br] 0:17:23.238,0:17:27.286 having a better time of it[br]in the second half of the war. 0:17:27.286,0:17:28.599 So, hold onto that,[br] 0:17:28.599,0:17:30.854 because that's going to become important[br]as we understand 0:17:30.854,0:17:34.005 the implications of the Melian Dialogue. 0:17:35.135,0:17:37.353 Alright, so before we go to the map here, 0:17:37.353,0:17:40.861 I just want to tell you a little bit[br]about the siege of Melos. 0:17:40.861,0:17:43.501 So, the Siege of Melos, 416 BCE, 0:17:43.501,0:17:46.089 it's the tail-end of this[br]half-time period, 0:17:46.089,0:17:48.375 what was called the Peace [br]of Nicias. 0:17:48.375,0:17:50.419 Athens wants Melos. 0:17:50.419,0:17:54.550 So, so just because Athens and[br]Sparta aren't directly in conflict 0:17:54.550,0:17:58.290 doesn't mean that they're not [br]strategically trying to do things. 0:17:58.290,0:18:01.776 So, you know, as we look[br]at the map -- 0:18:01.776,0:18:05.823 actually, why don't we go to the map[br]here, can we do this? Let's see -- 0:18:05.823,0:18:09.433 Hopefully this'll work. If we go to [br]our map -- there we go! 0:18:09.433,0:18:15.863 We got Athens up here, so, this blue area[br]here is the Mediterranean Sea. 0:18:15.863,0:18:18.415 So, if you think of your world map[br]for a second, 0:18:18.415,0:18:22.975 the Mediterranean, you've got southern [br]Europe and northern Africa, 0:18:22.975,0:18:25.937 you've got a fairly large body of water, 0:18:25.937,0:18:29.218 hopefully you've had a chance to look[br]at that, maybe even visited 0:18:29.218,0:18:30.469 some of these places. 0:18:30.469,0:18:36.120 If we look at the map here, Athens is in[br]the southern part of Greece, 0:18:36.120,0:18:37.851 which is just a little bit east of where 0:18:37.851,0:18:41.605 -- so Greece, of course, a little bit [br]east of where Italy is today, 0:18:41.605,0:18:43.075 where modern Italy is -- 0:18:43.075,0:18:45.851 Greece was one of the real world[br]centers at this point. 0:18:45.851,0:18:51.113 We've got Athens, and then Melos is [br]actually way down here. 0:18:51.113,0:18:55.349 So, if you've actually been to Athens[br]or been to this area of the world, 0:18:55.349,0:18:58.687 you know there's a lot of islands[br]around there and, 0:19:00.887,0:19:04.134 these days, kind of a a great place to[br]spend a vacation, but 0:19:04.320,0:19:09.964 basically and Sparta, which is not[br]really on the map, is sort of up here, 0:19:09.964,0:19:13.248 a little bit east of Athens. 0:19:13.248,0:19:17.915 And so basically, Athens wants [br]to control the seas. 0:19:17.915,0:19:20.468 And the way that Athens is going to [br]control the seas, 0:19:22.108,0:19:25.845 is by having outposts on the[br]variety of islands 0:19:25.845,0:19:29.649 that are associated with this area. 0:19:30.133,0:19:34.056 And so, they want to really conquer[br]the area, or at least, 0:19:34.056,0:19:35.218 have control over it. 0:19:35.218,0:19:36.540 So, I'm drawing here. 0:19:36.540,0:19:42.233 So they're going to go down to Melos[br]and really try to see what they can do. 0:19:42.233,0:19:46.343 So what they did was, they packed up [br]a force of about three-thousand soldiers, 0:19:46.343,0:19:50.864 a pretty significant number of people,[br]particularly when you realize 0:19:50.864,0:19:53.344 that you're going to have to [br]bring them on boats from 0:19:53.344,0:19:55.414 Athens all the way down to Melos. 0:19:55.414,0:19:59.121 And their aim was to bring [br]a show of force. 0:19:59.121,0:20:01.726 So they were showing their [br]military power. 0:20:01.726,0:20:04.273 You know, Melos is a small place,[br]you can see it's kind of a 0:20:04.273,0:20:07.461 tiny island, not going to have[br]three-thousand soldiers. 0:20:07.461,0:20:12.484 And so, Athens is bringing a superior[br]military force, 0:20:12.484,0:20:15.847 and the aim is to negotiate [br]with the Melians, 0:20:15.847,0:20:18.899 and that's where we pick up the[br]Melian Dialogue. 0:20:18.899,0:20:22.361 So that's kind of setting the stage[br]for where we are. 0:20:22.971,0:20:24.842 Alright, so what's going to happen? 0:20:24.842,0:20:26.894 Okay, the Melian Dialogue. 0:20:26.894,0:20:31.620 The Athenians come, and they want[br]to present a case 0:20:31.620,0:20:37.239 to the entire population of Melos, [br]that's their strategy. 0:20:37.239,0:20:40.448 And the idea here is several-fold. 0:20:40.448,0:20:43.950 The first, of course, is that, as I[br]mentioned, Athens is a democracy. 0:20:43.950,0:20:47.459 And so, beacuse they're a democracy, 0:20:47.459,0:20:50.136 because they believe that people [br]have the opportunity 0:20:50.136,0:20:51.643 to control their destiny, 0:20:51.643,0:20:54.749 they want to actually give a presentation [br]to all the people 0:20:54.749,0:20:56.991 in the hope that the people will vote. 0:20:57.282,0:20:59.870 Now, of course, there's two reasons[br]for them to want to do this. 0:20:59.870,0:21:02.469 One: Is that it's philosophically [br] 0:21:02.469,0:21:04.648 related to what it is that they're[br]trying to accomplish. 0:21:04.648,0:21:09.932 But also, honestly, if you're an[br]individual, and you see 0:21:09.932,0:21:13.469 a whole bunch of boats out to sea[br]that you know are filled 0:21:13.469,0:21:17.499 with soldiers, and you're[br]an individual. 0:21:17.499,0:21:20.592 Are you really, as you look at this,[br]thinking to yourself: 0:21:20.592,0:21:24.034 "Yeah, our best strategy is going to [br]be to stand up to you." 0:21:24.034,0:21:27.511 As individuals, you're going to feel quite[br]a bit of fear, I think, 0:21:27.511,0:21:28.815 in that moment. 0:21:28.815,0:21:32.092 And so, I think that one of the other[br]reasons that the Athenians 0:21:32.092,0:21:34.433 wanted to present the case to everyone, 0:21:34.433,0:21:38.680 was basically to try and scare the[br]general population, 0:21:38.680,0:21:42.846 with the hope that these individuals[br]would decide that 0:21:42.846,0:21:45.900 they wanted to just give in to[br]whatever the Athenians wanted. 0:21:46.649,0:21:49.867 Now, the Melians, they had a [br]different idea. 0:21:49.867,0:21:54.457 What they wanted was this negotiation[br]to be done by a small number of leaders. 0:21:54.457,0:21:56.605 So they wanted the leadership of Melos [br] 0:21:56.605,0:21:59.978 to sit down with the leadership of [br]the Athenian delegation, 0:21:59.978,0:22:02.306 and for them to hash it out. 0:22:02.632,0:22:04.584 And there are again two reasons for this. 0:22:04.584,0:22:08.286 One: Because from a leadership standpoint,[br] 0:22:08.286,0:22:12.768 Melos is an independent group. They are[br]an independent island. 0:22:12.768,0:22:16.872 They are not aligned either with Athens [br]or Sparta, 0:22:16.872,0:22:20.193 and their government structure[br]involved a fairly small number 0:22:20.193,0:22:21.693 of people who governed. 0:22:21.693,0:22:24.503 And so, they wanted their[br]government structure, 0:22:24.503,0:22:28.906 the people who had the political power[br]in Melos, 0:22:28.906,0:22:32.759 to be the ones who actually engaged[br]in that negotiation. 0:22:32.759,0:22:35.889 And they wanted to do that with [br]the people from Athens 0:22:35.889,0:22:39.068 who were authorized to make a decision. 0:22:39.616,0:22:42.216 And part of that, of course, is just that[br]they wanted a negotiation 0:22:42.216,0:22:45.268 that fit with the way that they[br]governed their own island. 0:22:45.268,0:22:50.104 But the other thing is, [br]the Melians were aware of the fact 0:22:50.104,0:22:53.622 that the common person on the[br]island of Melos 0:22:53.622,0:22:59.598 looking out over the sea, and seeing this[br]superior military force, 0:22:59.598,0:23:03.366 they were aware of the influence[br]that that was going to have on everyone. 0:23:03.366,0:23:07.813 And so, they wanted to really have a [br]smaller number of people 0:23:07.813,0:23:14.541 involved in this negotiation who would[br]be willing to create a force 0:23:14.541,0:23:17.113 that might stand up to the Athenians. 0:23:17.651,0:23:21.701 So, you know, if there's some[br]possibility that you're going to 0:23:21.701,0:23:25.763 end up in a heated battle with[br]a superior force, 0:23:25.763,0:23:28.394 it's going to be very hard to get[br]people to want to do that 0:23:28.394,0:23:33.490 if everyone is involved[br]in that decision, 0:23:33.490,0:23:34.949 because many of the people who 0:23:34.949,0:23:36.775 are going to make that decision 0:23:36.775,0:23:39.453 are not really going to be the ones[br]who have to go to war. 0:23:39.453,0:23:42.842 And many of the ones who see themselves[br]as having to go to war 0:23:42.842,0:23:44.685 against this superior force 0:23:44.685,0:23:49.462 are the ones who might actually[br]not want to vote for that. 0:23:49.462,0:23:52.782 And so, you know, there's a reason why[br]the Melians might actually want 0:23:52.782,0:23:56.460 to bring just their leadership[br]to that situation. 0:23:56.976,0:24:00.455 So, ultimately the Melians get[br]what they want on this. 0:24:00.455,0:24:03.485 They actually have the opportunity[br]for a small number of Melians 0:24:03.485,0:24:09.022 to negotiate with the Athenian[br]leadership. 0:24:10.237,0:24:13.400 Now, when they get into this[br]negotiation, 0:24:13.400,0:24:14.694 and, if you've read this, 0:24:14.694,0:24:19.092 you're getting an overview of that way[br]that this negotiation went, 0:24:19.092,0:24:24.449 what you mind is that Athens is[br]primarily focused on their power. 0:24:24.449,0:24:28.583 After all, they've amassed three-thousand[br]soldiers on boats 0:24:28.583,0:24:32.367 to come and sit off the coast[br]of Melos. 0:24:32.367,0:24:35.464 And so they, on purpose, have brought 0:24:35.464,0:24:39.222 a display of force that should be [br]overwhelming to the Melians, 0:24:39.222,0:24:43.594 and their view is that should open[br]and close the negotiation. 0:24:43.594,0:24:46.273 And so, they come in [br]and basically say: 0:24:46.273,0:24:51.382 "Look, we want to take you over. [br]So come, let us take over 0:24:51.382,0:24:54.766 the island of Melos, install our own[br]government here, and 0:24:54.766,0:24:58.962 you can be now part of the nation-state[br]of Athens." 0:24:58.962,0:25:02.299 And they really aren't particularly[br]interested in negotiating 0:25:02.299,0:25:05.974 in any other way, because they know[br]that when push comes to shove, 0:25:05.974,0:25:08.418 they can come and take over the island, 0:25:08.418,0:25:11.449 if they want to, militarily,[br]and impose their own government. 0:25:11.449,0:25:16.981 And so they'd rather just have the Melians[br]willingly invite them onto the island.