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(Bowl rings)

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(John): So In this presentation we are 
going discuss the Path of Sutra.

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We will look at how Sutra enforms monastic
life and the advantages of monastic life.

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We are going to look at the refuge vows
may be taken by lay practitioners.

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And we'll also look at the types of 
meditations

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that are done in Sutric tradition,

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which are different from 
the ones in Tantra and in Dzogchen.

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So Geshe la, perhaps we could start out 
with talking about just the view and

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conduct of Sutra. How would you describe
the view and the conduct of Sutra?

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In Sutra there are 5 poisons, and 
the 5 poisons have the 5 antidotes.

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The antidotes can
destroy the 5 poisons.

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(John): Can you tell us what the
5 poisons are?

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Yes. Attachment, anger, ignorance,
pride, and jealousy are the 5 poisons.

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In Sutra they say that these are the 
5 poisons, and you don't touch them,

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we need an antidote for them. Destroy from
the root and throw out.

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If there is a poisoned tree, with this 
poison the tree will grow up.

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You need to take it out from the root and
throw out, otherwise it will destroy us.

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Same as in the West. There are medicines,
and description: away from the child.

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If the child touches and eats it,
it is a posion for the child.

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(John): Right, So you want to keep it 
away from the children.

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Yes, keep it away from the children.
Sutra looks like that.

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(John): So we try to avoid negative 
actions, negative thoughts,

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negative speech, and we also try to
cultivate the virtuous activities.

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Yes, cultivate virtous things.
Also they say, if there is a posion

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and the poison is destroyed, good things
would come out. In Sutra they think that.

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So I guess in one way you could say that

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Sutra is the basis of moral behavior
in the Bön tradition.

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Yes. In Sutra they talk more about
disciplines.

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In the monks' life there are a lot of
disciplines.

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It all comes from the Sutra.

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Looking the outside the Sutra is good.

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Inner you practice Dzogchen and Tantric,
outer you practice Sutra.

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(John) : Good. I was going to ask you 
about this, because many people in the

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West first encounter Dzogchen practice, 
before they really studied Sutra.

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And of course Dzogchen tells us that
everything is perfect as it is. Right?

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Single taste, right?

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And so it also gives you a lot of freedom
in your conduct.

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And yet we see that great Dzogchen
practitioners such as Yongdzin Rinpoche or

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His Holiness and of course yourself

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you are still continuing to practice 
the life of the monk. Right?

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So why do people continue to practice 
and observe all of these moral conducts,

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and also practice Dzogchen?

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There are two ways to practice Dzogchen.

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In Dzogchen there are Tantric 
practitioners.

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This Dzogchen is common for everyone who
practices.

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Before Nyame Sherab Gyaltsen there
was only Tantric practitioner,

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Dzogchen practitioner or a Sutric 
practitioner.

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There were only single lineages 
of Sutra,Tantra and Dzogchen.

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Before that they did not combine
Sutric and Tantric, or Dzogchen.

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Then Nyame Sherab Gyaltsen, second Buddha
of the Bön, he combined them.

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Outer monk, inner Dzogchen and Tantric.

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Also Dzogchen can be practiced by
lay people too.

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(John): Of course.

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Sutric [vows of monks and nuns] cannot be
practiced by lay practitioners.

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There are different types of 
Sutric practices,

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Lay level Sutra practices and Sutric 
practices for monks are different.

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Monks need to take a lot of vows. Lay
people do not need that kind of vows.

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(John): You know I heard Yongdzin Rinpoche
saying one time that he preferred to

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continue practicing in the moral way of 
the Sutra, because it does not confuse

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people too and give people the wrong
idea about behaviour.

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Yes.

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(John): So you are trying to set 
a good example for other people.

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Yes, if you show the good example,
then people will follow that.

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If you show the bad example,
the student will follow that.

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The teacher need a better discipline than 
the student. It's more important.

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(John): Why do monk and nuns take 
many vows as part of their path?

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What is the advantage of taking
all these vows?

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Because there are 250 vows for monks
is that right?

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Yes. 250 vows. 
Monks take 2 types of vows.

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One is when they take 25 vows, and
after that we take 250 vows.

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(John): So the first 25 vows are for the
novious monks,

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and then the 250 are for the full
ordination of a monk?

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If you take the 25 vows then
you become a monk.

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Before that you are not a monk.

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They are more disciplined, more than
lay people. Lay people do not have

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[the same level of] discipline. 
They can put in discipline [when needed].

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If you go to an office, they have a
discipline.

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If you go the school they have
a rule for that.

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And the monks in the monastery
also need disciplines.

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They say that monks are better than
lay people. Why are they better?

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Because they have vows and they are
more disciplined.

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So it is about disciplining your behaviour
and disciplining your mind.

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Yes, yes.

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Which makes your practice stronger.

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Yes. Yes.

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Discipline in the daily practice and
discipline for when you go out,

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the way you talk, the way you do [things 
or the way you act]

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everything that needs to be
under discipline.

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And of course all these vows that the 
monks and nuns take

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also help tame the ego. Like for
instance the monks are always

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wearing the robes, and nothing else. 
And you always cut the hair.

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So in these ways we avoid becoming
proud of our appearance.

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I guess that's one of the reasons.
Or are there other reasons?

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Yes. This colour we call the spiritual
colour.

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Red, yellow, blue we call them spiritual
colours.

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Now also black and white, 
we call normal colour.

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We wear the spiritual colour.
We do not wear the fancy things.

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If you look in your house and you have a
lot of different shirts, T-shirts,

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different jackets. This jacket for the 
party, cocktail party.

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This jacket for something else, 
wedding party, this one is for the office.

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Lot of different shoes, pants, different
jackets and shirts that we do not have.

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We have 2 or 3 clothes. For party we wear
this one, for monastery we wear that one.

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Whenever we go out we wear that one.

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We are satisfied. Satisfaction.

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You [lay people] are not satisfied. 
Especially girls, they go the mall,

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and they are buying every time,
keep wanting more and more.

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(John): Attachment?

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Attachment, desire. Every year there
is a new fashion, they want it.

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The things from last year are no 
more of use.

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Not only the girls do this, 
many man do it too, you know.

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Oh yes. I think that girls do it
more than men.

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(John): Possible.

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Shopping, shopping. Girls have a lot to shop.
Their shopping chakra is open. (laughing)

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We call it the shopping chakra.

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That way if you go to mall there is a lot
of girls' cloth, more than men.

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I think it's showing that the girls
are doing more shopping.

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(John): One of the vows that monks 
and nuns take is of course not to have

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relationship, no family basically. What
is the advantage of not having a family?

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Because many people think that family is 
wonderful. It's very warm, very loving.

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So why do monks and nuns choose not to 
have a family, not to have children?

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These days it's easy to give an example, 
in the past time it was

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a different answer. These times we would 
say population control (laughs).

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Easy to say that it's population control.

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Look at the Tibetan people. 
The population is not big.

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We don't need to say population control.

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We are already control
because of the nuns and the monks.

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In the texts they say we make
relationships because of the attachment.

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(John): We have very strong attachments.

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Strong attachment. So because of this we 
do not have attachments.

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Also that's why we don't have family.
If you have a family, you need to spend

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a lot of time for that. That time takes
us away from our mediation.

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Doing the virtuous thing, or you
need to spend time in the family.

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We monks have a lot of time to do the 
practice, because we don't have family.

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(John): That's right.

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Saving time.

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Well, and also if you have a family, you 
have to generate a lot of money somehow,

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to support this family. Again, this takes
us away from the spiritual practice.

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Also you need to take care of wife, child
and also money, time, and everything.

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That way it's reducing the practice time.

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So you just making your life simpler and
simpler and more focused on the practice,

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more focused on the teachings.

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Yes. More focused on the 
teachings and meditation.

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And you live in the community of the 
monastery,

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so you are supported by all the
other monks and nuns.

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We think that all the monks are Dharma
brothers, and the nuns are Dharma sisters.

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We don't have a family life, we have
Dharma brothers and sisters, as we call.

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This seems like a very wonderful way
of living.

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Yes. Then you [lay people] are saving 
money. Also you have health insurance.

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As monks, we don't have it. We don't save
money, we don't have insurance.

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We don't think about that. 
We just got food today, and it's fine.

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We are not thinking about putting things
away for tomorrow.

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Mainly we focus - the dialectic school - 
just focuses on the philosophy.

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Then also in meditation there are 2 groups
in the monastery.

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One is the meditation group and the other
one is the dialectic, philoshopic group.

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And we just focus on that.

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If you go to a monk's room, 
there is nothing. It's very simple.

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(John): Simple life. Simple is good.

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Yes. (laughing)

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(John): So lay practitioners do have the 
possibility of taking refuge vows.

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Yes, sure.

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(John): So it's possible for lay people
to take some of these simple vows,

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and simplify their lives, and also guide

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their moral discipline
as a lay practitioner.

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Yes. Moral discipline is very important,
and lay practitioners also take the vows.

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There are 4 lay vows. First is
killing life. Don't kill anyone.

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(John): No harm.

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No harm.

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If someone harms you, how much suffer does 
this harm cause for you?

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This is the same for others. 
Don't harm anyone.

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(Tibetan words)

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Second is don't steal.

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(John): Yeah. Don't steal.

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(John): Actually is it going a little
bit further than that? Not to take what

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You should not take what was not
given to you.

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Yes. Anything not given to you, 
you do not take it.

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(John): That's right. So if you see
a 100 dollar bill laying on floor,

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you don't take it.

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You don't take it. If you take it, then 
you can put a note somewhere with

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your contact that you found it.
You can give information.

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And then the next vow is to refrain from
false and idle speech.

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(John): So in other words we always tell
the truth.

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Yes.

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(John): And we also don't gossip.

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Yes, don't gossip.

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(John): Or say negative words about
people.

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And also avoid sexual misconduct, as the
forth vow.

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Sexual misconduct is harming a lot
others too.

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If you don't marry a woman, if you have
a girlfriend who is already married

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or a boyfriend who already married, than
don't do the sexual misconduct.

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If you had a sexual contact with somebody 
else's wife and the husband notices it,

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it destroys the husband's heart.

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(John): Sure, yes.

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Also some girls have a contact with
somebody else's husband.

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If the wife notices, there would 
be a lot of fight at home.

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(John): It comes back to the very first
vow, when we don't harm anyone.

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Yes, don't harm anyone.

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(John): So harming is not only on the
physical level, but also on the

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emotional level. Or the mental level.

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So any sort of sexual behaviour that 
we would do and cause someone some pain,

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some harm, that should be avoided.

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Yes.

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That's one of the lay people's vow.

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(John): Now there is also the 
possibility to take some vows for

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we don't use any intoxication, such as 
alcohol, or something like that.

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Is that correct?

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Yes. Alcohol (Tibetan words)

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If you take 5 vows then it includes
not taking alcohol.

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If lay people take 4 vows, than
it's not included.

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(John): So you have the possibility of
taking a different set of refuge vows.

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Yes.

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(John): But you have to take the basic
four

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if you're going to take the refuge vows.

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But you can take the five. Because there 
is also a possibility, I think, of taking

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some dietary restricitions. Either about
no meat or no onions, or garlic.

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Yes. There are not root ones.
There are vows that are root vows.

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And there are vows that are branch vows.

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If you cut the branch, the tree will not
die.

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If you cut the root of the tree,
the tree will die.

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If you break one of the root vows, then
monks are not monks anymore

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and lay people also take we call the 
"genyen" (Tibetan word), so if they break

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then there is no more "genyen" too.

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(John): These first 4 are considered to 
be the root vows:

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so it's not harming other living 
creatures,

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refraining from taking that, 
which is not given,

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we refrain from sexual misconduct and

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we refrain from false and idle speech.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, these 4 are for the lay people.

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And the alcohol. If you drink alcohol
limitless, you drink it with no limit,

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and you get drunk, you'll be doing
something wrong.

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(John): Sure.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
That way it's very strict for monks.
They are not allowed to drink alcohol.

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(John): Of course.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Because we loose control.

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Or loose our good judgement. Or we loose 
our moral discipline.

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Yes.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Of course it's not just alcohol, 
but any sort of drugs or anything else

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
we become inebriated. Same principle.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Same principle, yes.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): It's not restricted to just
alcohol.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So, some lamas give the refuge vows
very frequently, but I've heard that

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Tenzin Rinpoche said that he prefers
not to give these very often because

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
it's better not to take the vow than
take it and then break it.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So one should be very careful,
if one is really serious if they're going

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
to take the vows or not.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
When you take a refuge vow from the lama
you need to consider

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that lama is your is your teacher. 
You have to think about that.

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Some day if the lama is doing something
little bit wrong, you may say:

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oh I don't want to contact any more
this lama.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Then the refuge vow is broken.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So when you take that refuge vow
from a teacher you have the

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
spiritual connection.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, you have the spiritual connection.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
You always need to think of him 
as your spiritual teacher.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So it seems that these
refuge vows though are a wonderful way

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
to simplify are own lives as lay
practitioners because, of course if

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if we tell the truth, if we don't harm
other people and so on,

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
it leads to a much happier life.

259
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you take the refuge vows,
this life is more useful.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Refuge vows are not these
four [previous vows].

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Anyone can take refuge vows.

263
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Taking refuge in the lama
Taking refuge in the Buddha

264
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Taking refuge in Buddha's speech
Taking refuge in Boddhisattva.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
That's the refuge.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So you are taking refuge in
the sources of enlightenment.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, that's the refuge.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And it's an other thing if you take
the 4 vows or 5 vows,

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
that we call the "genyen" (Tibetan).

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So it's two different sets of 
refuge.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, first the refuge vow, and then comes
the "genyen".

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Then monks have 2 types of vows :
"tsantsug" and "gelong" (Tibetan)

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Do the monks and the nuns take
the same vows?

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Almost the same.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): In the Sutric system not only
do we avoid these negative behaviours,

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
for instance we do not lie, but we also
try to cultivate the positive,

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
the virtuous conduct within ourselves.
Which are referred to as the paramitas,

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
or the perfections. Right?
So let's talk about that a little bit.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I have list here with the 10 paramitas,
maybe you could explain us a little bit,

280
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
what's the importance of 
each one of these.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So the first one is, how would you say
Tibetan? "sByin-pa" ?

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
"sByin-pa", yes. Generosity.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So we try to cultivate
generosity.

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
What is the advantage of
cultivating generosity?

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99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
There are 2 types of generosity. One is 
when physically you can give something to

286
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
somebody who doesn't have it.
We can be generous and give food for

287
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
somebody who doesn't have enough
to eat. Those people are hungry,

288
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
those people are thirsty. If you give 
food to them, if you give drink to them

289
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
that's a generosity too.

290
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
What is generosity according to the
teaching?

291
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
According to the teaching generosity 
means very big things.

292
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
There is a lot of suffering in
this Samsara.

293
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Giving teaching to change the mind,

294
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
that kind of teaching, if you give it.
This is a generosity.

295
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So when we share the Dharma 
with others it a great generosity.

296
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If senior students help junior students
in the Dharma things,

297
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Some have a lot of suffering
they can not control

298
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
they don't know how to control,
and then senior student teaches to

299
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
do meditation. Then you can guide the 
meditation.

300
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
You can teach the Dharma prayer.
This is all generosity.

301
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So our Dharma brothers and 
sisters in our sangha

302
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
are great support for us.

303
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Here at Ligmincha in summer and autumn
hundreds of people come to

304
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Rinpoche's teaching. They all come at the
same time and share things.

305
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Some are new students,
some are old, or senior students.

306
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Senior students share their experience
and everything. That's generosity.

307
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Hopefully without pride.
(laughing).

308
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, pride like
"I'm the teacher, l have more knowledge

309
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
than the other one". Sometimes there is
a lot of pride, when people are thinking

310
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
"I have knowledge". I have a lot of
experience. Don't think like that.

311
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Rather think that "I've learned many
years, I have a knowledge. They are new

312
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
and I'm generously helping the new
student". That is the best, it's generous.

313
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): That's wonderful.

314
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So the second paramita we've
already talked a little bit about,

315
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
because it's the ethical discipline.

316
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Discipline, yes.

317
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): We keep our ethics pure and clear.

318
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Discipline. There are a lot of
discipline. Monks have disciplines.

319
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Lay people have disciplines.

320
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
During the teaching time you have
discipline. You put timetables:

321
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Monday at 9 the teaching is starting
and at 10.30 there is a break.

322
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Following all the disciplines, 
is a discipline.

323
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Monks have discipline, all
the community has discipline.

324
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you follow all the disciplines,
everybody is happy for that.

325
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
No one is angry. Discipline
helps develop patience.

326
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Yes, I mean that's the beauty 
of moral conduct and ethical conduct,

327
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
is that it leads to happiness within
ourselves and happiness in others.

328
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, it gives happiness for both sides.

329
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So the third paramita is patience.
Now we could all use more of this.

330
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes. (Laughing)

331
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Patience is the most important one.

332
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Especially patience in the case of 
husband and wife.

333
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Or anyone in the family.
(laughing)

334
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Or anyone in the family.

335
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Mostly husband and wife, if they
spent long time, more than 10 years,

336
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
together after that they
can loose patience often.

337
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
At the start when they were girlfriends
and boyfriends,

338
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
they had a lot of patience.

339
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
After marriage they loose the patience.

340
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
To have the patience, if someone is angry,
don't respond immediately.

341
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
They say, just listen, listen.
If you put wood on the fire,

342
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
fire becomes bigger and bigger.

343
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you put gas on the fire,
it gets very big.

344
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you respond immediately, than
the anger, the fire will come out.

345
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So just be patient and just wait.

346
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Just be patient, and wait, and just 
listen. Don't respond immediately.

347
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If somebody is angry, the other side needs
more space.

348
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
More space. Space helps.

349
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Space helps in many things.

350
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, in many things.

351
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Looking in the space you can see lot
of things.

352
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Space holds everything. Good and bad, 
everything. Space doesn't bother.

353
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So the next of the paramitas is
virtuous effort, being diligent.

354
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Or I guess the Tibetan term is 
"brTson-'grus".

355
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
"brTson-'grus", yes.

356
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you do virtuous things, if you
do practice, you need that.

357
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Immediately you can not run [away from] 
that one you have continually spend time

358
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
and do it continually, more and more
you need to practice.

359
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So you should do things well.

360
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes.

361
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So we shouldn't do things 
half way. If we do it, we should do it

362
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
very fully and completely.

363
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Also we give example: (Tibetan words)

364
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If the fire is on the hair, then you need
to do everything that is possible to

365
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
put out the fire.

366
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Also grass burns slowly, 
and then burns everything

367
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Let me give you another example.

368
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Every books they have it.

369
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Also in the West you have the story of
the rabbit and the tortoise.

370
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Oh the rabbit and the tortoise.

371
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Oh yes. Where the rabbit goes very
quickly, but it goes down to sleep,

372
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
and eventually the tortoise wins because
it slow and steady, but diligent.

373
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, it looks like that.

374
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So have your diligents to complete
your task.

375
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Like a turtle.

376
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So it's the same story in 
Tibetan. That's interesting.

377
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So well the next one is pretty
obvious: meditation.

378
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So we should have our meditation
practice, and

379
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
be regular in our meditation practice.

380
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Meditation. When you meditate you
become happy.

381
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you suffer, if you have a problem
you can meditate.

382
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
There is so many different ways to
meditate.

383
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
You can meditate on emptiness, you can 
meditate on impermanence,

384
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
if you are on a higher level, you can
practice Dzogchen,

385
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Natural state of the mind, you can do that
kind of meditation.

386
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you meditate, meditations feels good,
right?

387
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Meditation brings us joy, brings 
us equanimity,

388
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
it said that it brings us the four 
inmeasurables: love, joy, compassion and

389
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
equanimity. It leads to a wonderful
positive life.

390
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes it's possible that meditation would
bring that.

391
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Meditation is medicine for the mind.

392
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Yes, it is.

393
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So the 6th paramita is confidence,
or (Tibetan word)

394
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Confidence.

395
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So self confidence? Is this what
we are talking about?

396
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, self confidence is very good,
self confidence if you practice.

397
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Also too much confidence in not so good.
It becomes pride.

398
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Self confidence is for example when
I know that I have the capabilty of

399
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
teaching other people. Teaching is to help
the others.

400
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
That kind of confidence is good.

401
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Too much confidence is not so good.
Then comes pride.

402
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Pride is one of the poisons too.

403
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So it always that balance of 
confidence and pride

404
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
we have to make sure. Too much confidence
might lead to pride.

405
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
"I'm the teacher. I have the knowledge." 
That's pride.

406
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Confidence is a little bit different from
that.

407
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I have the capability to teach.

408
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I know these things, I have the capability
to teach.

409
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I will not hold it to myself, I will teach
other people.

410
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
This teaching will help the others.

411
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
That kind of "nuba" (Tibetan word)
can help.

412
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Of course it also an be that
confidence it's more basic than

413
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
being a teacher, just being confident that
I'm a good person.

414
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I think this is something many people 
in the West have challenge with, because

415
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
maybe they had some experience when 
they were a child and someone told them

416
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
that they were bad. And then they don't 
have this positive image of themselves.

417
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So it's very good to have this confidence
in yourself,

418
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
that you are essentially a Buddha, within.

419
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes. I can see this confidence in children sometimes.

420
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
When here in the West children are
taught in the school

421
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
how to talk with in front of 
other people.

422
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
From the child level they are teaching.

423
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Whenever they got a chance they talk,
they are not shaking, they have a lot

424
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
of confidence to talk with the people.

425
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you look at the children from India or
from Nepal coming to the USA,

426
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
they are a little bit shy. They don't have
a confidence for that.

427
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
In the West children, sometime I feel,
have so much confidence.

428
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So " Ok, I will do it" They never say: 
I don't know.

429
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
They say: " I know that".

430
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Someone tells them "don't do that", they 
say: "yeah, I know that".

431
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
That is too much confidence. (laughing)

432
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Yeah. Again it's the balance of
confidence versus pride.

433
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, confidence and pride need to 
be balanced.

434
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So the 7th paramita is
compassion.

435
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Of course this is a very important part
of the teachings.

436
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes. Compassion "snying rje" (Tibetan )

437
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
"“nyen gye manu pala tsa" (Tibetan)

438
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If someone does not have
enough food to eat

439
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
we have compassion for that.

440
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
After the compassion we can be
generous.

441
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Yes, you can show your generosity.

442
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, you can show generosity.

443
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If an animal is injured, you feel
compassion for that.

444
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
After you have compassion, you take
action.

445
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
You need to take it to the hospital.

446
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Take care for that.
That is compassion.

447
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Of course we should show 
compassion for eveyone that we know,

448
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
everyone that we meet,
everyone in our family.

449
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Because everyone is experiencing
suffering.

450
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, everyone.

451
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Whoever has suffering you can have
compassion for that.

452
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So everyone is experiencing it,
so we should have compassion for everyone.

453
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So the 8th paramita is the
aspirational prayer or monlam.

454
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Maybe you could give us an example.
What would be an aspirational prayer?

455
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Aspirational prayer we are doing it every
year.

456
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
" I wish you a very happy...". This is an
aspiration.

457
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): "May you have a happy year"

458
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I wish you a very happy year.

459
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
I wish you a better life or something
like that.

460
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
That is a monlam (Tibetan word). 
An aspiration.

461
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): May your life be filled with
happiness.

462
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes. Every year is like today. Every year 
be healthy, have good health.

463
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
This is all monlam, (Tibetan word).
An aspiration.

464
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): We are wishing that someone have
a better life, a good life.

465
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Wishing anything, wishing is a monlam,
(Tibetan word), aspiration.

466
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So this is connected with the
generosity and the compassion too,

467
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
because we are hoping that others
enjoy a beautiful life.

468
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So the 9th is skillful means, which is in 
the dedication. Or "top" (Tibetan word)?

469
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
"Top" is the method. "Top" means idea.

470
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Careful thinking maybe.

471
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Careful thinking, yes.

472
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Careful planning, careful
execution.

473
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, careful thinking. Helping through
different ideas is a "top" (Tibetan word)

474
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Yes. Many times we have the
motivation to help someone

475
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
or improve something, but we are not
careful about it and maybe we are

476
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
rushing too quickly. So this is a careful,
skillful way of helping others.

477
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, skillfully helping others.
That is "top".

478
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): The final one is 
"Sherab" (Tibetan) or wisdom.

479
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Wisdom, yes.

480
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): We all could use more of this.

481
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
What do we mean by wisdom
exactly here?

482
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
There are many different ways that
wisdom might be interpreted.

483
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Wisdom is something like intelligence.

484
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you learn something, you need 
more wisdom.

485
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Someone learns really quickly. 
They have a lot of wisdom.

486
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
For someone it takes time to learn. 
There's less wisdom there.

487
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Someone has a lot of experience, 
lot of knowledge,

488
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
that we call a lot of wisdom.

489
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
There is a lot of wisdom to carry
all the things.

490
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): There is this one aspect of 
wisdom having intellectual knowledge,

491
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
or sharpness of the mind.

492
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, sharpness of the mind also.

493
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): But there is also isn't there a
wisdom that just arises from the heart?

494
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Like the wisdom of emptiness,
or the mirrorlike wisdom.

495
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Speaking of the five of these wisdoms.

496
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
It's more about the mediative experience.

497
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes. When you do the meditation,
first level it will be difficult to

498
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
do the meditation. When you do it again 
and again, more wisdom comes,

499
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
more knowledge comes out.
Better knowledge.

500
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): More wisdom. 
We just say it, more wisdom.

501
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
More and more wisdom comes out,
more good things come out.

502
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
More experience comes out.

503
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): The wisdom and experiences
arise directly from the meditation.

504
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Not necessarily just throught thought.

505
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yeah. If you look at the Tantric 
masters, earlier masters,

506
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
when they meditate, more experience comes

507
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
and they thought to write it down.

508
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Through the thinking, there is all
we call "gurma" (Tibetan)

509
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Experience telling to people

510
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): That arises directly from their
meditative experience

511
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
the text that they are writing, 
flows naturally.

512
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Flows naturally yes.
Flows out.

513
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you look at one text
again and again and again,

514
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
more and more knowledge comes out
from that text.

515
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
After that you don't need to look
in a book.

516
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
When you start immediately everything
comes out.

517
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
There is more knowledge.

518
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): It seems like that the Sutric
method is avoiding all these negativities

519
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
like lying, sexual misconduct, and 
stealing and so forth,

520
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
in combination with the 
cultivation of these paramitas.

521
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
leads to very happy life.

522
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, it leads to a happy life.

523
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): And it serves as a very clear
guide for our behaviour.

524
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes.

525
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you do all these things,
it leads to a very good life.

526
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): It does lead to a good life.

527
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Now the meditational methods in Sutra
are many times are analytical meditations,

528
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
like the meditation of impermanence 
for instance, where we are using the mind

529
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
to reflect on the truth, the inner most 
truth of something like

530
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
what can we find that's truly permanent.

531
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And we think, we are using the mind to
think about these things.

532
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So this is quite different from
Dzogchen meditation.

533
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Also meditation on impermanence helps 
the practice too.

534
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Of course

535
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
When you are young, you are not thinking
of the impermanence.

536
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
You are energetic, you have power,
you think that this life is forever,

537
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
and you don't want to meditate.

538
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Also Sutra is saying that our life is 
impermanent.

539
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): No one is lives forever.

540
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes. Children, boys and girls will become 
teenagers, then they will be men and women

541
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
and after that wifes and husbands.
Then their child call them parents,

542
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
and one day they will be called
grandpa and grandma,

543
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
then it's time to go.
Life will be finished.

544
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
That way it's all changing.

545
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
It's impermanent. We should think 
"now I need to do the virtuous things."

546
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): It changes our mind when we 
understand impermanence.

547
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
This helps us to do the practice.

548
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Give us motivation.

549
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Motivation, yes.

550
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Because we realize that nothing is
permanent in this life.

551
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Also is Sutra there is the practice of 
emptiness.

552
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If search for the table, you find out
that there is not a solid table there.

553
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you take it piece by piece,
then there is no table.

554
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
We are just giving name.

555
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Yes, that's one of the classic 
analytical meditations. You meditate

556
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
upon a table, - because people might not
be familiar with this meditation, -

557
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
and you try to find a table. You look at
every element of the table:

558
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Is it the leg? Is it the top? 
Is it the side? Where is the table?

559
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And you find that there is no table.
It's only our mind.

560
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
But this analytical process leads to
inside, it leads to a new wisdom.

561
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Sutric teachings says that we are giving
name for things,

562
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
that are not not solid from the outside.

563
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
We give names to all the things.

564
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Or when the boy is called by his mother
and father my son.

565
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Wife says: my husband. Child says: 
my father.

566
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Everybody is giving names.

567
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): That's right.

568
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
They are not solid from
outside.

569
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): It's always changing. From every
different perspective.

570
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): I remember that one of the 
teachings I received on this was

571
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
when a monk was visiting me as a house
guest, and he start giving this teaching

572
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
on emptiness and we were eating pizza. 
He held up the pizza and said:

573
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
show me the pizza! Is it the mushroom?
Is it the olive? Is it the tomato?

574
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
No, we could find no pizza, while we were
eating the pizza.

575
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Because this pizza was in our mind,
a name. Just a name we create.

576
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Then you ask: where is the tomato? 
Is the tomato the colour?

577
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Is the tomato the shape?

578
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
There is no tomato. (laughing)
Nothing is there.

579
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Nothing is there. Empty.

580
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Empty. This Sutric practice leads
to the realization of emptiness.

581
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So in the Sutric analytical
process we are using the mind to think.

582
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
We are using thoughts.

583
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
While in the Dzogchen practice we are
trying to liberate the thought.

584
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, to liberate the thought.

585
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So it's a very different way to of
working with the thoughts.

586
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes. Dzogchen says if thought comes
don't chase after thought.

587
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Just leave it there.

588
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
If you leave them there, thoughts
will dissolve themselves.

589
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So ok, we need an antidote for that.
You need to take it out from the root.

590
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): With the Sutric analytic approach
we use the thought,

591
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
we don't try just liberate the thought.

592
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes we don't liberate it.

593
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Because throught the thinking,
and through the sharp, clear mind,

594
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
which is really emphasized in the
debate especially in the monastery,

595
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
you can reach this insight.

596
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes.

597
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): So this meditation over
impermanence we were discussing,

598
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
is found in the Ngöndro, which is one of
the foundation mediation practice.

599
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So it's considered to be very-very
fundamental.

600
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes, it is fundamental. The practice of
impermanence is a fundamental

601
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
practice for everyone.

602
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
It's a foundation.

603
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): It really changes your life
whenever

604
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
you have this understanding
of impermanence.

605
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And the same is true for the 
meditation on emptiness.

606
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
These two are considered to be a very
fundamental meditation.

607
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Looking at these practices, 
sometimes we are powerful,

608
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
sometimes we are down.
We are poor, then some years later

609
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
we become rich. 
This is all impermanence.

610
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): That's wonderful.

611
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Well, thank you very much Geshe la
for this explanation of these

612
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Sutric meditations.

613
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
So the next part of the this course
people going to get to enjoy

614
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
a teaching by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche
on impermanence.

615
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
And then a meditation guided by Rinpoche
on impermanence.

616
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Yes. This will be very helpful, he will 
explain everything in detail.

617
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
His English is a wonderful 
English. Not like my English. (laughing)

618
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): I think your English is very
good.

619
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): But this should have given you 
a very good taste of how we work

620
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
with these analytical meditations in the
Sutric way.

621
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
(John): Hope you have enjoyed.

622
99:59:59,999 --> 99:59:59,999
Thank you.