9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (Bowl rings) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So In this presentation we are [br]going discuss the Path of Sutra. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We will look at how Sutra enforms monastic[br]life and the advantages of monastic life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We are going to look at the refuge vows[br]may be taken by lay practitioners. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And we'll also look at the types of [br]meditations 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that are done in Sutric tradition, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 which are different from [br]the ones in Tantra and in Dzogchen. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So Geshe la, perhaps we could start out [br]with talking about just the view and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 conduct of Sutra. How would you describe[br]the view and the conduct of Sutra? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 In Sutra there are 5 poisons, and [br]the 5 poisons have the 5 antidotes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The antidotes can[br]destroy the 5 poisons. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Can you tell us what the[br]5 poisons are? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. Attachment, anger, ignorance,[br]pride, and jealousy are the 5 poisons. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 In Sutra they say that these are the [br]5 poisons, and you don't touch them, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 we need an antidote for them. Destroy from[br]the root and throw out. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If there is a poisoned tree, with this [br]poison the tree will grow up. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You need to take it out from the root and[br]throw out, otherwise it will destroy us. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Same as in the West. There are medicines,[br]and description: away from the child. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If the child touches and eats it,[br]it is a posion for the child. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Right, So you want to keep it [br]away from the children. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, keep it away from the children.[br]Sutra looks like that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So we try to avoid negative [br]actions, negative thoughts, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 negative speech, and we also try to[br]cultivate the virtuous activities. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, cultivate virtous things.[br]Also they say, if there is a posion 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and the poison is destroyed, good things[br]would come out. In Sutra they think that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So I guess in one way you could say that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Sutra is the basis of moral behavior[br]in the Bön tradition. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. In Sutra they talk more about[br]disciplines. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 In the monks' life there are a lot of[br]disciplines. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It all comes from the Sutra. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Looking the outside the Sutra is good. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Inner you practice Dzogchen and Tantric,[br]outer you practice Sutra. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John) : Good. I was going to ask you [br]about this, because many people in the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 West first encounter Dzogchen practice, [br]before they really studied Sutra. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And of course Dzogchen tells us that[br]everything is perfect as it is. Right? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Single taste, right? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And so it also gives you a lot of freedom[br]in your conduct. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And yet we see that great Dzogchen[br]practitioners such as Yongdzin Rinpoche or 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 His Holiness and of course yourself 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you are still continuing to practice [br]the life of the monk. Right? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So why do people continue to practice [br]and observe all of these moral conducts, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and also practice Dzogchen? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There are two ways to practice Dzogchen. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 In Dzogchen there are Tantric [br]practitioners. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This Dzogchen is common for everyone who[br]practices. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Before Nyame Sherab Gyaltsen there[br]was only Tantric practitioner, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Dzogchen practitioner or a Sutric [br]practitioner. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There were only single lineages [br]of Sutra,Tantra and Dzogchen. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Before that they did not combine[br]Sutric and Tantric, or Dzogchen. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Then Nyame Sherab Gyaltsen, second Buddha[br]of the Bön, he combined them. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Outer monk, inner Dzogchen and Tantric. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also Dzogchen can be practiced by[br]lay people too. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Of course. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Sutric [vows of monks and nuns] cannot be[br]practiced by lay practitioners. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There are different types of [br]Sutric practices, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Lay level Sutra practices and Sutric [br]practices for monks are different. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Monks need to take a lot of vows. Lay[br]people do not need that kind of vows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): You know I heard Yongdzin Rinpoche[br]saying one time that he preferred to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 continue practicing in the moral way of [br]the Sutra, because it does not confuse 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 people too and give people the wrong[br]idea about behaviour. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So you are trying to set [br]a good example for other people. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, if you show the good example,[br]then people will follow that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you show the bad example,[br]the student will follow that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The teacher need a better discipline than [br]the student. It's more important. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Why do monk and nuns take [br]many vows as part of their path? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 What is the advantage of taking[br]all these vows? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Because there are 250 vows for monks[br]is that right? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. 250 vows. [br]Monks take 2 types of vows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 One is when they take 25 vows, and[br]after that we take 250 vows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So the first 25 vows are for the[br]novious monks, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and then the 250 are for the full[br]ordination of a monk? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you take the 25 vows then[br]you become a monk. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Before that you are not a monk. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 They are more disciplined, more than[br]lay people. Lay people do not have 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 [the same level of] discipline. [br]They can put in discipline [when needed]. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you go to an office, they have a[br]discipline. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you go the school they have[br]a rule for that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And the monks in the monastery[br]also need disciplines. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 They say that monks are better than[br]lay people. Why are they better? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Because they have vows and they are[br]more disciplined. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So it is about disciplining your behaviour[br]and disciplining your mind. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Which makes your practice stronger. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. Yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Discipline in the daily practice and[br]discipline for when you go out, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the way you talk, the way you do [things [br]or the way you act] 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 everything that needs to be[br]under discipline. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And of course all these vows that the [br]monks and nuns take 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 also help tame the ego. Like for[br]instance the monks are always 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 wearing the robes, and nothing else. [br]And you always cut the hair. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So in these ways we avoid becoming[br]proud of our appearance. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I guess that's one of the reasons.[br]Or are there other reasons? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. This colour we call the spiritual[br]colour. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Red, yellow, blue we call them spiritual[br]colours. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Now also black and white, [br]we call normal colour. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We wear the spiritual colour.[br]We do not wear the fancy things. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you look in your house and you have a[br]lot of different shirts, T-shirts, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 different jackets. This jacket for the [br]party, cocktail party. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This jacket for something else, [br]wedding party, this one is for the office. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Lot of different shoes, pants, different[br]jackets and shirts that we do not have. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We have 2 or 3 clothes. For party we wear[br]this one, for monastery we wear that one. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Whenever we go out we wear that one. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We are satisfied. Satisfaction. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You [lay people] are not satisfied. [br]Especially girls, they go the mall, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and they are buying every time,[br]keep wanting more and more. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Attachment? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Attachment, desire. Every year there[br]is a new fashion, they want it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 The things from last year are no [br]more of use. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Not only the girls do this, [br]many man do it too, you know. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Oh yes. I think that girls do it[br]more than men. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Possible. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Shopping, shopping. Girls have a lot to shop.[br]Their shopping chakra is open. (laughing) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We call it the shopping chakra. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That way if you go to mall there is a lot[br]of girls' cloth, more than men. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I think it's showing that the girls[br]are doing more shopping. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): One of the vows that monks [br]and nuns take is of course not to have 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 relationship, no family basically. What[br]is the advantage of not having a family? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Because many people think that family is [br]wonderful. It's very warm, very loving. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So why do monks and nuns choose not to [br]have a family, not to have children? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 These days it's easy to give an example, [br]in the past time it was 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a different answer. These times we would [br]say population control (laughs). 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Easy to say that it's population control. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Look at the Tibetan people. [br]The population is not big. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We don't need to say population control. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We are already control[br]because of the nuns and the monks. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 In the texts they say we make[br]relationships because of the attachment. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): We have very strong attachments. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Strong attachment. So because of this we [br]do not have attachments. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also that's why we don't have family.[br]If you have a family, you need to spend 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a lot of time for that. That time takes[br]us away from our mediation. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Doing the virtuous thing, or you[br]need to spend time in the family. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We monks have a lot of time to do the [br]practice, because we don't have family. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): That's right. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Saving time. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Well, and also if you have a family, you [br]have to generate a lot of money somehow, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to support this family. Again, this takes[br]us away from the spiritual practice. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also you need to take care of wife, child[br]and also money, time, and everything. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That way it's reducing the practice time. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So you just making your life simpler and[br]simpler and more focused on the practice, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 more focused on the teachings. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. More focused on the [br]teachings and meditation. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And you live in the community of the [br]monastery, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so you are supported by all the[br]other monks and nuns. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We think that all the monks are Dharma[br]brothers, and the nuns are Dharma sisters. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We don't have a family life, we have[br]Dharma brothers and sisters, as we call. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This seems like a very wonderful way[br]of living. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. Then you [lay people] are saving [br]money. Also you have health insurance. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 As monks, we don't have it. We don't save[br]money, we don't have insurance. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We don't think about that. [br]We just got food today, and it's fine. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We are not thinking about putting things[br]away for tomorrow. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Mainly we focus - the dialectic school - [br]just focuses on the philosophy. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Then also in meditation there are 2 groups[br]in the monastery. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 One is the meditation group and the other[br]one is the dialectic, philoshopic group. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And we just focus on that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you go to a monk's room, [br]there is nothing. It's very simple. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Simple life. Simple is good. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. (laughing) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So lay practitioners do have the [br]possibility of taking refuge vows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, sure. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So it's possible for lay people[br]to take some of these simple vows, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and simplify their lives, and also guide 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 their moral discipline[br]as a lay practitioner. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. Moral discipline is very important,[br]and lay practitioners also take the vows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There are 4 lay vows. First is[br]killing life. Don't kill anyone. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): No harm. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 No harm. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If someone harms you, how much suffer does [br]this harm cause for you? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This is the same for others. [br]Don't harm anyone. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (Tibetan words) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Second is don't steal. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Yeah. Don't steal. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Actually is it going a little[br]bit further than that? Not to take what 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You should not take what was not[br]given to you. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. Anything not given to you, [br]you do not take it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): That's right. So if you see[br]a 100 dollar bill laying on floor, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you don't take it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You don't take it. If you take it, then [br]you can put a note somewhere with 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 your contact that you found it.[br]You can give information. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And then the next vow is to refrain from[br]false and idle speech. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So in other words we always tell[br]the truth. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): And we also don't gossip. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, don't gossip. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Or say negative words about[br]people. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And also avoid sexual misconduct, as the[br]forth vow. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Sexual misconduct is harming a lot[br]others too. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you don't marry a woman, if you have[br]a girlfriend who is already married 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or a boyfriend who already married, than[br]don't do the sexual misconduct. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you had a sexual contact with somebody [br]else's wife and the husband notices it, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it destroys the husband's heart. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Sure, yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also some girls have a contact with[br]somebody else's husband. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If the wife notices, there would [br]be a lot of fight at home. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): It comes back to the very first[br]vow, when we don't harm anyone. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, don't harm anyone. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So harming is not only on the[br]physical level, but also on the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 emotional level. Or the mental level. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So any sort of sexual behaviour that [br]we would do and cause someone some pain, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 some harm, that should be avoided. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That's one of the lay people's vow. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Now there is also the [br]possibility to take some vows for 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 we don't use any intoxication, such as [br]alcohol, or something like that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Is that correct? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. Alcohol (Tibetan words) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you take 5 vows then it includes[br]not taking alcohol. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If lay people take 4 vows, than[br]it's not included. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So you have the possibility of[br]taking a different set of refuge vows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): But you have to take the basic[br]four 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 if you're going to take the refuge vows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But you can take the five. Because there [br]is also a possibility, I think, of taking 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 some dietary restricitions. Either about[br]no meat or no onions, or garlic. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. There are not root ones.[br]There are vows that are root vows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And there are vows that are branch vows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you cut the branch, the tree will not[br]die. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you cut the root of the tree,[br]the tree will die. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you break one of the root vows, then[br]monks are not monks anymore 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and lay people also take we call the [br]"genyen" (Tibetan word), so if they break 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 then there is no more "genyen" too. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): These first 4 are considered to [br]be the root vows: 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 so it's not harming other living [br]creatures, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 refraining from taking that, [br]which is not given, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 we refrain from sexual misconduct and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 we refrain from false and idle speech. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, these 4 are for the lay people. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And the alcohol. If you drink alcohol[br]limitless, you drink it with no limit, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and you get drunk, you'll be doing[br]something wrong. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Sure. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That way it's very strict for monks.[br]They are not allowed to drink alcohol. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Of course. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Because we loose control. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Or loose our good judgement. Or we loose [br]our moral discipline. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Of course it's not just alcohol, [br]but any sort of drugs or anything else 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 we become inebriated. Same principle. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Same principle, yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): It's not restricted to just[br]alcohol. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So, some lamas give the refuge vows[br]very frequently, but I've heard that 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Tenzin Rinpoche said that he prefers[br]not to give these very often because 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it's better not to take the vow than[br]take it and then break it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So one should be very careful,[br]if one is really serious if they're going 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to take the vows or not. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 When you take a refuge vow from the lama[br]you need to consider 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that lama is your is your teacher. [br]You have to think about that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Some day if the lama is doing something[br]little bit wrong, you may say: 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 oh I don't want to contact any more[br]this lama. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Then the refuge vow is broken. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So when you take that refuge vow[br]from a teacher you have the 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 spiritual connection. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, you have the spiritual connection. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You always need to think of him [br]as your spiritual teacher. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So it seems that these[br]refuge vows though are a wonderful way 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to simplify are own lives as lay[br]practitioners because, of course if 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 if we tell the truth, if we don't harm[br]other people and so on, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it leads to a much happier life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you take the refuge vows,[br]this life is more useful. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Refuge vows are not these[br]four [previous vows]. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Anyone can take refuge vows. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Taking refuge in the lama[br]Taking refuge in the Buddha 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Taking refuge in Buddha's speech[br]Taking refuge in Boddhisattva. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That's the refuge. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So you are taking refuge in[br]the sources of enlightenment. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, that's the refuge. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And it's an other thing if you take[br]the 4 vows or 5 vows, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that we call the "genyen" (Tibetan). 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So it's two different sets of [br]refuge. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, first the refuge vow, and then comes[br]the "genyen". 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Then monks have 2 types of vows :[br]"tsantsug" and "gelong" (Tibetan) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Do the monks and the nuns take[br]the same vows? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Almost the same. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): In the Sutric system not only[br]do we avoid these negative behaviours, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 for instance we do not lie, but we also[br]try to cultivate the positive, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the virtuous conduct within ourselves.[br]Which are referred to as the paramitas, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or the perfections. Right?[br]So let's talk about that a little bit. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I have list here with the 10 paramitas,[br]maybe you could explain us a little bit, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 what's the importance of [br]each one of these. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So the first one is, how would you say[br]Tibetan? "sByin-pa" ? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "sByin-pa", yes. Generosity. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So we try to cultivate[br]generosity. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 What is the advantage of[br]cultivating generosity? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There are 2 types of generosity. One is [br]when physically you can give something to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 somebody who doesn't have it.[br]We can be generous and give food for 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 somebody who doesn't have enough[br]to eat. Those people are hungry, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 those people are thirsty. If you give [br]food to them, if you give drink to them 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that's a generosity too. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 What is generosity according to the[br]teaching? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 According to the teaching generosity [br]means very big things. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There is a lot of suffering in[br]this Samsara. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Giving teaching to change the mind, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that kind of teaching, if you give it.[br]This is a generosity. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So when we share the Dharma [br]with others it a great generosity. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If senior students help junior students[br]in the Dharma things, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Some have a lot of suffering[br]they can not control 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 they don't know how to control,[br]and then senior student teaches to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 do meditation. Then you can guide the [br]meditation. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You can teach the Dharma prayer.[br]This is all generosity. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So our Dharma brothers and [br]sisters in our sangha 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 are great support for us. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Here at Ligmincha in summer and autumn[br]hundreds of people come to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Rinpoche's teaching. They all come at the[br]same time and share things. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Some are new students,[br]some are old, or senior students. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Senior students share their experience[br]and everything. That's generosity. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Hopefully without pride.[br](laughing). 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, pride like[br]"I'm the teacher, l have more knowledge 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 than the other one". Sometimes there is[br]a lot of pride, when people are thinking 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "I have knowledge". I have a lot of[br]experience. Don't think like that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Rather think that "I've learned many[br]years, I have a knowledge. They are new 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and I'm generously helping the new[br]student". That is the best, it's generous. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): That's wonderful. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So the second paramita we've[br]already talked a little bit about, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 because it's the ethical discipline. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Discipline, yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): We keep our ethics pure and clear. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Discipline. There are a lot of[br]discipline. Monks have disciplines. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Lay people have disciplines. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 During the teaching time you have[br]discipline. You put timetables: 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Monday at 9 the teaching is starting[br]and at 10.30 there is a break. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Following all the disciplines, [br]is a discipline. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Monks have discipline, all[br]the community has discipline. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you follow all the disciplines,[br]everybody is happy for that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 No one is angry. Discipline[br]helps develop patience. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Yes, I mean that's the beauty [br]of moral conduct and ethical conduct, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 is that it leads to happiness within[br]ourselves and happiness in others. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, it gives happiness for both sides. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So the third paramita is patience.[br]Now we could all use more of this. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. (Laughing) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Patience is the most important one. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Especially patience in the case of [br]husband and wife. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Or anyone in the family.[br](laughing) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Or anyone in the family. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Mostly husband and wife, if they[br]spent long time, more than 10 years, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 together after that they[br]can loose patience often. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 At the start when they were girlfriends[br]and boyfriends, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 they had a lot of patience. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 After marriage they loose the patience. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 To have the patience, if someone is angry,[br]don't respond immediately. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 They say, just listen, listen.[br]If you put wood on the fire, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 fire becomes bigger and bigger. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you put gas on the fire,[br]it gets very big. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you respond immediately, than[br]the anger, the fire will come out. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So just be patient and just wait. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Just be patient, and wait, and just [br]listen. Don't respond immediately. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If somebody is angry, the other side needs[br]more space. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 More space. Space helps. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Space helps in many things. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, in many things. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Looking in the space you can see lot[br]of things. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Space holds everything. Good and bad, [br]everything. Space doesn't bother. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So the next of the paramitas is[br]virtuous effort, being diligent. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Or I guess the Tibetan term is [br]"brTson-'grus". 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "brTson-'grus", yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you do virtuous things, if you[br]do practice, you need that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Immediately you can not run [away from] [br]that one you have continually spend time 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and do it continually, more and more[br]you need to practice. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So you should do things well. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So we shouldn't do things [br]half way. If we do it, we should do it 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 very fully and completely. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also we give example: (Tibetan words) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If the fire is on the hair, then you need[br]to do everything that is possible to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 put out the fire. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also grass burns slowly, [br]and then burns everything 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Let me give you another example. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Every books they have it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also in the West you have the story of[br]the rabbit and the tortoise. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Oh the rabbit and the tortoise. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Oh yes. Where the rabbit goes very[br]quickly, but it goes down to sleep, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and eventually the tortoise wins because[br]it slow and steady, but diligent. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, it looks like that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So have your diligents to complete[br]your task. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Like a turtle. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So it's the same story in [br]Tibetan. That's interesting. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So well the next one is pretty[br]obvious: meditation. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So we should have our meditation[br]practice, and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 be regular in our meditation practice. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Meditation. When you meditate you[br]become happy. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you suffer, if you have a problem[br]you can meditate. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There is so many different ways to[br]meditate. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You can meditate on emptiness, you can [br]meditate on impermanence, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 if you are on a higher level, you can[br]practice Dzogchen, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Natural state of the mind, you can do that[br]kind of meditation. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you meditate, meditations feels good,[br]right? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Meditation brings us joy, brings [br]us equanimity, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 it said that it brings us the four [br]inmeasurables: love, joy, compassion and 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 equanimity. It leads to a wonderful[br]positive life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes it's possible that meditation would[br]bring that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Meditation is medicine for the mind. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Yes, it is. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So the 6th paramita is confidence,[br]or (Tibetan word) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Confidence. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So self confidence? Is this what[br]we are talking about? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, self confidence is very good,[br]self confidence if you practice. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also too much confidence in not so good.[br]It becomes pride. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Self confidence is for example when[br]I know that I have the capabilty of 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 teaching other people. Teaching is to help[br]the others. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That kind of confidence is good. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Too much confidence is not so good.[br]Then comes pride. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Pride is one of the poisons too. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So it always that balance of [br]confidence and pride 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 we have to make sure. Too much confidence[br]might lead to pride. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "I'm the teacher. I have the knowledge." [br]That's pride. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Confidence is a little bit different from[br]that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I have the capability to teach. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I know these things, I have the capability[br]to teach. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I will not hold it to myself, I will teach[br]other people. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This teaching will help the others. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That kind of "nuba" (Tibetan word)[br]can help. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Of course it also an be that[br]confidence it's more basic than 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 being a teacher, just being confident that[br]I'm a good person. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I think this is something many people [br]in the West have challenge with, because 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 maybe they had some experience when [br]they were a child and someone told them 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that they were bad. And then they don't [br]have this positive image of themselves. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So it's very good to have this confidence[br]in yourself, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that you are essentially a Buddha, within. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. I can see this confidence in children sometimes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 When here in the West children are[br]taught in the school 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 how to talk with in front of [br]other people. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 From the child level they are teaching. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Whenever they got a chance they talk,[br]they are not shaking, they have a lot 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 of confidence to talk with the people. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you look at the children from India or[br]from Nepal coming to the USA, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 they are a little bit shy. They don't have[br]a confidence for that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 In the West children, sometime I feel,[br]have so much confidence. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So " Ok, I will do it" They never say: [br]I don't know. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 They say: " I know that". 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Someone tells them "don't do that", they [br]say: "yeah, I know that". 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That is too much confidence. (laughing) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Yeah. Again it's the balance of[br]confidence versus pride. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, confidence and pride need to [br]be balanced. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So the 7th paramita is[br]compassion. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Of course this is a very important part[br]of the teachings. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. Compassion "snying rje" (Tibetan ) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "“nyen gye manu pala tsa" (Tibetan) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If someone does not have[br]enough food to eat 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 we have compassion for that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 After the compassion we can be[br]generous. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Yes, you can show your generosity. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, you can show generosity. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If an animal is injured, you feel[br]compassion for that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 After you have compassion, you take[br]action. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You need to take it to the hospital. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Take care for that.[br]That is compassion. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Of course we should show [br]compassion for eveyone that we know, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 everyone that we meet,[br]everyone in our family. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Because everyone is experiencing[br]suffering. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, everyone. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Whoever has suffering you can have[br]compassion for that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So everyone is experiencing it,[br]so we should have compassion for everyone. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So the 8th paramita is the[br]aspirational prayer or monlam. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Maybe you could give us an example.[br]What would be an aspirational prayer? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Aspirational prayer we are doing it every[br]year. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 " I wish you a very happy...". This is an[br]aspiration. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): "May you have a happy year" 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I wish you a very happy year. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 I wish you a better life or something[br]like that. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That is a monlam (Tibetan word). [br]An aspiration. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): May your life be filled with[br]happiness. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. Every year is like today. Every year [br]be healthy, have good health. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This is all monlam, (Tibetan word).[br]An aspiration. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): We are wishing that someone have[br]a better life, a good life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Wishing anything, wishing is a monlam,[br](Tibetan word), aspiration. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So this is connected with the[br]generosity and the compassion too, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 because we are hoping that others[br]enjoy a beautiful life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So the 9th is skillful means, which is in [br]the dedication. Or "top" (Tibetan word)? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 "Top" is the method. "Top" means idea. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Careful thinking maybe. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Careful thinking, yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Careful planning, careful[br]execution. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, careful thinking. Helping through[br]different ideas is a "top" (Tibetan word) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Yes. Many times we have the[br]motivation to help someone 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or improve something, but we are not[br]careful about it and maybe we are 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 rushing too quickly. So this is a careful,[br]skillful way of helping others. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, skillfully helping others.[br]That is "top". 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): The final one is [br]"Sherab" (Tibetan) or wisdom. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Wisdom, yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): We all could use more of this. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 What do we mean by wisdom[br]exactly here? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There are many different ways that[br]wisdom might be interpreted. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Wisdom is something like intelligence. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you learn something, you need [br]more wisdom. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Someone learns really quickly. [br]They have a lot of wisdom. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 For someone it takes time to learn. [br]There's less wisdom there. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Someone has a lot of experience, [br]lot of knowledge, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that we call a lot of wisdom. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There is a lot of wisdom to carry[br]all the things. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): There is this one aspect of [br]wisdom having intellectual knowledge, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 or sharpness of the mind. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, sharpness of the mind also. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): But there is also isn't there a[br]wisdom that just arises from the heart? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Like the wisdom of emptiness,[br]or the mirrorlike wisdom. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Speaking of the five of these wisdoms. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's more about the mediative experience. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. When you do the meditation,[br]first level it will be difficult to 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 do the meditation. When you do it again [br]and again, more wisdom comes, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 more knowledge comes out.[br]Better knowledge. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): More wisdom. [br]We just say it, more wisdom. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 More and more wisdom comes out,[br]more good things come out. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 More experience comes out. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): The wisdom and experiences[br]arise directly from the meditation. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Not necessarily just throught thought. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yeah. If you look at the Tantric [br]masters, earlier masters, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 when they meditate, more experience comes 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and they thought to write it down. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Through the thinking, there is all[br]we call "gurma" (Tibetan) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Experience telling to people 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): That arises directly from their[br]meditative experience 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 the text that they are writing, [br]flows naturally. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Flows naturally yes.[br]Flows out. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you look at one text[br]again and again and again, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 more and more knowledge comes out[br]from that text. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 After that you don't need to look[br]in a book. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 When you start immediately everything[br]comes out. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There is more knowledge. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): It seems like that the Sutric[br]method is avoiding all these negativities 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 like lying, sexual misconduct, and [br]stealing and so forth, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 in combination with the [br]cultivation of these paramitas. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 leads to very happy life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, it leads to a happy life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): And it serves as a very clear[br]guide for our behaviour. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you do all these things,[br]it leads to a very good life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): It does lead to a good life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Now the meditational methods in Sutra[br]are many times are analytical meditations, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 like the meditation of impermanence [br]for instance, where we are using the mind 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 to reflect on the truth, the inner most [br]truth of something like 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 what can we find that's truly permanent. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And we think, we are using the mind to[br]think about these things. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So this is quite different from[br]Dzogchen meditation. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also meditation on impermanence helps [br]the practice too. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Of course 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 When you are young, you are not thinking[br]of the impermanence. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 You are energetic, you have power,[br]you think that this life is forever, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and you don't want to meditate. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also Sutra is saying that our life is [br]impermanent. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): No one is lives forever. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. Children, boys and girls will become [br]teenagers, then they will be men and women 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and after that wifes and husbands.[br]Then their child call them parents, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and one day they will be called[br]grandpa and grandma, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 then it's time to go.[br]Life will be finished. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 That way it's all changing. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's impermanent. We should think [br]"now I need to do the virtuous things." 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): It changes our mind when we [br]understand impermanence. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 This helps us to do the practice. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Give us motivation. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Motivation, yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Because we realize that nothing is[br]permanent in this life. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Also is Sutra there is the practice of [br]emptiness. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If search for the table, you find out[br]that there is not a solid table there. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you take it piece by piece,[br]then there is no table. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We are just giving name. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Yes, that's one of the classic [br]analytical meditations. You meditate 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 upon a table, - because people might not[br]be familiar with this meditation, - 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 and you try to find a table. You look at[br]every element of the table: 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Is it the leg? Is it the top? [br]Is it the side? Where is the table? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And you find that there is no table.[br]It's only our mind. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 But this analytical process leads to[br]inside, it leads to a new wisdom. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Sutric teachings says that we are giving[br]name for things, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 that are not not solid from the outside. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We give names to all the things. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Or when the boy is called by his mother[br]and father my son. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Wife says: my husband. Child says: [br]my father. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Everybody is giving names. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): That's right. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 They are not solid from[br]outside. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): It's always changing. From every[br]different perspective. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): I remember that one of the [br]teachings I received on this was 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 when a monk was visiting me as a house[br]guest, and he start giving this teaching 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 on emptiness and we were eating pizza. [br]He held up the pizza and said: 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 show me the pizza! Is it the mushroom?[br]Is it the olive? Is it the tomato? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 No, we could find no pizza, while we were[br]eating the pizza. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Because this pizza was in our mind,[br]a name. Just a name we create. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Then you ask: where is the tomato? [br]Is the tomato the colour? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Is the tomato the shape? 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 There is no tomato. (laughing)[br]Nothing is there. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Nothing is there. Empty. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Empty. This Sutric practice leads[br]to the realization of emptiness. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So in the Sutric analytical[br]process we are using the mind to think. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 We are using thoughts. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 While in the Dzogchen practice we are[br]trying to liberate the thought. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, to liberate the thought. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So it's a very different way to of[br]working with the thoughts. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. Dzogchen says if thought comes[br]don't chase after thought. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Just leave it there. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 If you leave them there, thoughts[br]will dissolve themselves. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So ok, we need an antidote for that.[br]You need to take it out from the root. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): With the Sutric analytic approach[br]we use the thought, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 we don't try just liberate the thought. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes we don't liberate it. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Because throught the thinking,[br]and through the sharp, clear mind, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 which is really emphasized in the[br]debate especially in the monastery, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you can reach this insight. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): So this meditation over[br]impermanence we were discussing, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 is found in the Ngöndro, which is one of[br]the foundation mediation practice. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So it's considered to be very-very[br]fundamental. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes, it is fundamental. The practice of[br]impermanence is a fundamental 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 practice for everyone. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 It's a foundation. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): It really changes your life[br]whenever 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 you have this understanding[br]of impermanence. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And the same is true for the [br]meditation on emptiness. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 These two are considered to be a very[br]fundamental meditation. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Looking at these practices, [br]sometimes we are powerful, 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 sometimes we are down.[br]We are poor, then some years later 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 we become rich. [br]This is all impermanence. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): That's wonderful. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Well, thank you very much Geshe la[br]for this explanation of these 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Sutric meditations. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 So the next part of the this course[br]people going to get to enjoy 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 a teaching by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche[br]on impermanence. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 And then a meditation guided by Rinpoche[br]on impermanence. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Yes. This will be very helpful, he will [br]explain everything in detail. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 His English is a wonderful [br]English. Not like my English. (laughing) 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): I think your English is very[br]good. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): But this should have given you [br]a very good taste of how we work 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 with these analytical meditations in the[br]Sutric way. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 (John): Hope you have enjoyed. 9:59:59.000,9:59:59.000 Thank you.