The secret weapon against pandemics
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0:00 - 0:03David Biello: It's now
my great honor and privilege -
0:03 - 0:05to introduce Dr. Georges Benjamin,
-
0:05 - 0:10who's the executive director
of the American Public Health Association, -
0:10 - 0:13who has a long and distinguished career,
-
0:13 - 0:17both as a medical professional
and as a public health professional. -
0:17 - 0:20Please give a warm welcome
to Dr. Georges Benjamin. -
0:23 - 0:25Georges Benjamin: Hey, David, how are you?
-
0:25 - 0:28DB: I am good, how are you, Dr. Benjamin?
-
0:28 - 0:31GB: I'm here. (Laughs)
-
0:31 - 0:32DB: Hanging in there. Good.
-
0:32 - 0:34GB: Hanging in.
-
0:34 - 0:40DB: We know that the theme of the moment
is reopening, I would say. -
0:41 - 0:43We just heard one possibility for that,
-
0:43 - 0:45but obviously,
-
0:45 - 0:48a lot of countries have already
reopened in one form or another, -
0:48 - 0:50and I believe, as of today,
-
0:50 - 0:55all 50 states here in the US
have reopened in one form or another. -
0:57 - 1:01How do we do that smartly,
how do we do that safely? -
1:02 - 1:06GB: Yeah, we really do need
to reopen safely and carefully, -
1:06 - 1:13and it means that we have not
got to forget these public health measures -
1:13 - 1:16that really brought down
the curve to begin with. -
1:16 - 1:19And that means thing such as
-
1:19 - 1:22covering up your nose and mouth
when you cough or sneeze, -
1:22 - 1:24wearing a mask, washing your hands,
-
1:24 - 1:28physically distancing yourself
to the extent possible from others. -
1:29 - 1:31Thinking about everything we do,
-
1:31 - 1:34you know, before we go to work
in the morning, -
1:34 - 1:36while we're at work.
-
1:36 - 1:40And being as careful
as many of us have been -
1:40 - 1:41in the last two months,
-
1:42 - 1:44as we go into the next three months,
-
1:44 - 1:45because this thing is not over.
-
1:46 - 1:47DB: Right.
-
1:47 - 1:52There is the chance of more waves,
as Uri [Alon] mentioned. -
1:53 - 1:57It seems like it's kind of
incumbent on all of us then -
1:57 - 2:00to take public health
as kind of a second job. -
2:00 - 2:02Is that right?
-
2:03 - 2:06GB: You know, I've been arguing a lot
-
2:06 - 2:10that now that everybody really knows
what public health is, -
2:10 - 2:14that everybody should always recognize
that their second job is public health, -
2:14 - 2:18whether you're picking up the garbage
or working in a grocery store, -
2:18 - 2:20or you are a bus driver,
-
2:20 - 2:23or you're, you know,
like me, doing public health, -
2:23 - 2:25a physician or a nurse,
-
2:25 - 2:28everybody needs to put
the public health mantle -
2:28 - 2:31into what they do each and every day.
-
2:33 - 2:34DB: What do you think --
-
2:34 - 2:36So we're all public health
professionals now, -
2:36 - 2:41what do you think
the new normal we might expect, -
2:41 - 2:44as countries reopen?
-
2:44 - 2:47What is that going to look like,
-
2:47 - 2:50or what do you hope that looks like,
as a public health professional? -
2:50 - 2:53GB: If I could wave a magic wand,
-
2:54 - 2:57I would clearly recognize
-
2:57 - 3:00that people are going to be doing
a lot more of the public health things, -
3:00 - 3:02in terms of handwashing
-
3:02 - 3:07and thinking about what they do
around safety when they go out in public. -
3:07 - 3:09You know, it was not too long ago
-
3:09 - 3:12when you got in your car
and you didn't put your seat belt on. -
3:12 - 3:13Today we do it,
-
3:13 - 3:16and we don't think anything about it.
-
3:16 - 3:18Most of us don't smoke,
-
3:18 - 3:21because we know that that's bad for us.
-
3:21 - 3:25Most of us look both ways
before we cross a street. -
3:25 - 3:28Most of us, you know,
-
3:28 - 3:31do things in our house,
that are -- fix trip hazards. -
3:31 - 3:34So as we go forward with this outbreak,
-
3:34 - 3:36I'm hoping that people will pay
a lot more attention -
3:36 - 3:40to things that can cause us
to get an infection. -
3:40 - 3:44So you know, cleaning things,
disinfecting things. -
3:45 - 3:49More importantly,
not coming to work if you're sick. -
3:49 - 3:53I'm hoping that employers
will put in paid sick leave for everybody, -
3:53 - 3:55so people can stay home.
-
3:55 - 3:57Yeah, it’s an additional cost,
-
3:57 - 3:59but I can tell you that we've now learned
-
4:00 - 4:03that the cost of not doing
something like that -
4:03 - 4:06is billions and billions
and billions of dollars. -
4:06 - 4:10Paid sick leave is pretty cheap
when you do that. -
4:10 - 4:13DB: Yeah, we are, I think,
envious in the United States -
4:13 - 4:16of all the countries that perhaps have
-
4:16 - 4:19a more all-encompassing
health care system than we do. -
4:20 - 4:23Would you agree that masks
are kind of the symbol -
4:23 - 4:29of adopting that "public health
professional as a second job" mindset? -
4:30 - 4:32GB: Well, you know, it's funny.
-
4:32 - 4:37Our colleagues in Asia have had a mask --
-
4:37 - 4:40wearing masks as a culture
for many, many years. -
4:41 - 4:44And you know, we've always
kind of chuckled at that. -
4:44 - 4:46When I went overseas,
-
4:46 - 4:50I would always kind of chuckle
when I saw people wearing masks. -
4:50 - 4:51And of course, when this first started,
-
4:52 - 4:55you know, we only promoted masks
for people that were infected -
4:55 - 4:57or of course, health care workers,
-
4:57 - 4:59who we thought were
in a higher-risk environment. -
4:59 - 5:02But I think that wearing masks
-
5:02 - 5:04is probably going to be
part of our culture. -
5:05 - 5:08We've already seen it probably will not be
part of our beach culture, -
5:08 - 5:10although it probably should be for now.
-
5:10 - 5:14But I do think that we're going to see
more and more people wearing masks -
5:14 - 5:16in a variety of settings.
-
5:16 - 5:19And I think that makes sense.
-
5:19 - 5:23DB: Yeah, wear your mask
to show that you care about others. -
5:23 - 5:26And that you have this,
kind of, public health spirit. -
5:26 - 5:28So speaking of Asia,
-
5:28 - 5:31who has done well?
-
5:31 - 5:34Looking around the world,
you've been doing this for a while -
5:34 - 5:36and communicated with your peers,
-
5:36 - 5:37who has done well
-
5:37 - 5:41and what can we learn
from those good examples? -
5:41 - 5:44GB: Yeah, South Korea
in many ways is the role model. -
5:44 - 5:48You know, China actually,
at the end of the day, -
5:48 - 5:49did reasonably well.
-
5:50 - 5:51But the secret to all of those countries
-
5:52 - 5:55that have had less morbidity
and mortality than we have, -
5:55 - 5:59is they did lots of testing very early on,
-
5:59 - 6:03they did contact tracing
and isolation and quarantine, -
6:03 - 6:07which by the way, is the bedrock
of public health practice. -
6:07 - 6:09They did it early, they did a lot of it,
-
6:09 - 6:13and by the way, even though
they're reopening their society, -
6:13 - 6:17and they're beginning to see
episodic surges, -
6:17 - 6:19they then go back to those basic
public health practices -
6:19 - 6:25of testing, isolation, contact tracing
-
6:25 - 6:29and transparency
to the public when they can, -
6:29 - 6:33because it's important for the public
to understand how many cases there are, -
6:33 - 6:35where the disease is,
-
6:35 - 6:38if you're going to get
compliance from the public. -
6:39 - 6:42DB: So testing,
contact tracing and isolation. -
6:42 - 6:48That doesn't seem like rocket science,
to use that old cliché. -
6:48 - 6:52Why has that been hard
for some countries to implement? -
6:52 - 6:54What's holding us back,
-
6:54 - 6:55is it electronic medical records,
-
6:55 - 6:57is it some fancy doodad,
-
6:57 - 7:01or is it just maybe overconfidence,
-
7:01 - 7:06based on maybe the public health
successes of the last 100 years? -
7:06 - 7:09GB: You know, we are
very much a pill society. -
7:09 - 7:12We think there's a pill for everything.
-
7:12 - 7:14If we can't give you a pill for it,
-
7:14 - 7:16then we can give you surgery and fix it.
-
7:16 - 7:19You know, prevention works.
-
7:19 - 7:23And we have totally
underinvested in prevention. -
7:23 - 7:27We've totally underinvested
in a strong, robust -
7:27 - 7:28public health system.
-
7:28 - 7:32If you look at the fact
that in the America today, -
7:32 - 7:37you can very easily know
-
7:37 - 7:39what's coming off the shelf
of a grocery store, -
7:39 - 7:43Amazon knows everything
there is to know about you, -
7:43 - 7:47but your doctor does not have
the same tools. -
7:47 - 7:49At three o'clock in the morning,
-
7:49 - 7:52it's still very difficult
to get a hold of your electrocardiogram, -
7:52 - 7:55or your medical record,
or your list of allergies -
7:55 - 7:58if you can't tell
the practitioner what you have. -
7:58 - 8:01And we just haven't invested
in robust systems. -
8:01 - 8:03One of the interesting things
about this outbreak -
8:04 - 8:05is that it has created an environment
-
8:05 - 8:09in which we're now dependent
on telemedicine, -
8:09 - 8:11which has been around for several years,
-
8:11 - 8:13but we weren't quite into it.
-
8:13 - 8:15But now, it's probably
going to be the new standard. -
8:16 - 8:17DB: But it also seems --
-
8:17 - 8:19So, obviously,
-
8:19 - 8:23those countries with an incredibly
robust health care system, -
8:23 - 8:25like Taiwan, have done well,
-
8:25 - 8:29but it seems like even countries
that perhaps would be considered -
8:29 - 8:34to have a less robust health care system,
like a Ghana in Africa, -
8:34 - 8:35have actually done well.
-
8:35 - 8:39What has been the, I guess,
the secret sauce -
8:39 - 8:41for those kinds of countries?
-
8:41 - 8:44GB: Yeah, it's still pretty early
in some of their exposures, -
8:44 - 8:49and hopefully, they might not
have a wave that comes later, -
8:49 - 8:51that's still a possibility,
-
8:51 - 8:52but at the end of the day,
-
8:52 - 8:57I think, to the extent you have done
good, sound public health practices, -
8:57 - 9:00all of the countries that have done well
-
9:00 - 9:01have implemented that.
-
9:01 - 9:04Now we're a big country,
we're a complex country. -
9:04 - 9:08And yes, we didn't get
the testing right to begin with. -
9:08 - 9:13But we should not repeat the mistakes
that we had over the last three months, -
9:13 - 9:15because we've still got
several months to go. -
9:15 - 9:17And now that we know what we did wrong,
-
9:17 - 9:20I'm encouraging us
to do it right the next time. -
9:20 - 9:22DB: That seems smart.
-
9:22 - 9:24GB: And the next time is tomorrow.
-
9:24 - 9:25DB: That's right.
-
9:25 - 9:27It's already started.
-
9:27 - 9:28I mean, it almost seems to me,
-
9:28 - 9:30if I can use this metaphor,
-
9:30 - 9:31that some of these countries
-
9:31 - 9:34already had the, kind of,
antibodies in their system, -
9:34 - 9:38because they had experience
with maybe Ebola or the first SARS. -
9:39 - 9:42Is that the key, previous exposure
-
9:42 - 9:45to these kind of public health crises?
-
9:45 - 9:47GB: Well, this is a very different virus.
-
9:47 - 9:50And while there may be some early evidence
-
9:50 - 9:54that MERS and SARS one,
-
9:54 - 9:57we may have some
early protection from that, -
9:57 - 10:00there's some early,
early studies looking at that, -
10:00 - 10:01that's not the solution.
-
10:01 - 10:06The secret sauce here
is good, solid public health practice. -
10:06 - 10:08That's the secret sauce here.
-
10:08 - 10:12We should not be looking
for anything, any mysticism, -
10:12 - 10:15or anyone to come save us
with a special pill. -
10:15 - 10:18This is all about good, solid
public health practice, -
10:18 - 10:20because, by the way, look,
-
10:20 - 10:23this one was a bad one,
-
10:23 - 10:25but it's not the last one.
-
10:25 - 10:27And so we need to prepare
for the next really big one. -
10:27 - 10:29We think this one was bad,
-
10:29 - 10:32imagine what would have happened
had Ebola been aerosolized, -
10:32 - 10:36or MERS had been aerosolized.
-
10:36 - 10:37You know, pick a TV movie.
-
10:39 - 10:41Even though this was a bad one,
-
10:41 - 10:44we still dodged a really,
really bad one this time. -
10:45 - 10:49DB: Yeah, Middle East
Respiratory Syndrome is no joke, -
10:49 - 10:52and we should be thankful
that it doesn't spread more easily, -
10:52 - 10:53like SARS-CoV.
-
10:53 - 10:55Is this, though --
-
10:55 - 10:56So all these diseases are zoonotic,
-
10:56 - 11:01that means they jumped to us
from the animals that are out there. -
11:01 - 11:04Obviously, humanity is
kind of encroaching on nature -
11:04 - 11:07in an ever more, kind of, urgent way,
-
11:07 - 11:11whether that's climate change
or going into the forests, what have you. -
11:11 - 11:14Is this just the new normal,
-
11:14 - 11:17like, we should expect
pandemics every so often? -
11:19 - 11:21GB: Well, they do come periodically,
-
11:21 - 11:24so this is not, you know,
the first pandemic, right? -
11:24 - 11:26We've had several,
-
11:26 - 11:31100 years ago, the 1918 influenza,
-
11:31 - 11:35SARS was a significant infection,
-
11:35 - 11:38even though it didn't get
this bad, SARS one. -
11:38 - 11:40And we had the avian flu,
-
11:40 - 11:42which was a challenge,
-
11:42 - 11:44and the swine flu.
-
11:44 - 11:45We had Zika.
-
11:45 - 11:49So no, we've had several
new disease outbreaks. -
11:49 - 11:53These emerging diseases happen a lot,
-
11:53 - 11:55and in many ways,
-
11:55 - 11:56we've been fortunate
-
11:56 - 12:00that we have been able
to identify them early -
12:00 - 12:02and contain them.
-
12:02 - 12:04But we're now in an environment
-
12:04 - 12:06where people can, by the way,
make some of these things up. -
12:06 - 12:11Now, this one did not happen,
as best we can tell, it's not man-made. -
12:11 - 12:14It did not probably come
out of a leak in the lab. -
12:14 - 12:19But we know that, when I was in school,
-
12:19 - 12:22to grow a bug, you had to be
pretty sophisticated. -
12:22 - 12:24That's not the case today.
-
12:24 - 12:28And we need to protect ourselves
from both naturally occurring infections -
12:28 - 12:32and from those that are created by humans.
-
12:33 - 12:36DB: Plus we have other,
kind of, threat multipliers, -
12:36 - 12:37like climate change,
-
12:37 - 12:41that make pandemics like this
that much worse. -
12:42 - 12:46GB: You know, I was saying climate change
was the greatest threat human survival -
12:46 - 12:47before this one.
-
12:47 - 12:49But this is rivaling climate change.
-
12:49 - 12:50But let me tell you,
-
12:50 - 12:52the big challenge we have now
-
12:52 - 12:56is that we have a pandemic,
-
12:56 - 12:58which we have still not contained,
-
12:58 - 13:01as we enter hurricane season,
-
13:01 - 13:02and we have climate change,
-
13:02 - 13:08which is exacerbating the ferocity
of the hurricanes that we're having. -
13:08 - 13:12So, you know, we're in
for an interesting summer. -
13:15 - 13:19DB: And here's Chris with, I think,
a question from our audience. -
13:19 - 13:21Chris Anderson: Many questions, actually.
-
13:21 - 13:25People are very interested
in what you're saying, Georges. -
13:25 - 13:27Here we go, here's the first one
from Jim Young: -
13:27 - 13:32"How do we deal with people
who don't believe this is serious?" -
13:33 - 13:40GB: You know, you just have to continue
to communicate the truth to folks. -
13:41 - 13:43One of the things
about this particular disease -
13:43 - 13:45is that it does not spare anyone.
-
13:45 - 13:48It does not recognize political parties,
-
13:48 - 13:51it does not recognize geography,
-
13:51 - 13:54and we had lots of people,
particularly in rural communities, -
13:54 - 13:57that were not seeing it,
because it had not yet come to them, -
13:57 - 13:59and they didn't believe it was real.
-
13:59 - 14:04And now many of those communities
are being ravaged by this disease. -
14:04 - 14:06And so we just have to --
-
14:07 - 14:10You know, it's not appropriate
to say "I told you so." -
14:10 - 14:12It is appropriate to say,
"Look, now that you see it, -
14:12 - 14:17come on board and help us
resolve these problems." -
14:17 - 14:20But this is something
that's going to be around for a while. -
14:20 - 14:22And if it becomes endemic,
-
14:22 - 14:28meaning that it occurs all the time
at some low level, -
14:28 - 14:30everyone is going to have this experience.
-
14:32 - 14:33CA: Thank you.
-
14:33 - 14:36Here is one from Robert Perkowitz.
-
14:37 - 14:41"We seem to have been ignoring
and underfunding public health, -
14:41 - 14:45and we were unprepared for this virus."
-
14:45 - 14:47Look if the question
is going to pop up there, -
14:47 - 14:49I think it should, by some magic.
-
14:49 - 14:51"What should our priorities be now
-
14:51 - 14:54to prepare for the next
public health crisis?" -
14:56 - 15:00GB: Well, we now need to make sure
that we've put in the funding, -
15:00 - 15:03resources, training,
staffing on the table. -
15:04 - 15:06And by the way,
our next public health crisis -
15:06 - 15:10is not 10 years from now,
it's not 20 years from now, -
15:10 - 15:14it's the potential co-occurrence
-
15:14 - 15:17of influenza, which we know
is going to happen this fall, -
15:17 - 15:19because it comes every year,
-
15:19 - 15:24with either continued COVID
or a spike in COVID. -
15:24 - 15:27And we're going to have a disease process
-
15:27 - 15:29which presents very much the same,
-
15:30 - 15:34and we're going to have to differentiate
COVID from influenza. -
15:35 - 15:39Because we have a vaccine for influenza,
-
15:39 - 15:41we don't yet have a vaccine for COVID.
-
15:41 - 15:43We hope to have one in about a year.
-
15:43 - 15:45But that still remains to be seen.
-
15:47 - 15:49DB: So get your flu shots.
-
15:49 - 15:50CA: Yeah.
-
15:50 - 15:54Indeed, in fact, David Collins
asked exactly that question. -
15:54 - 15:59"What is the likelihood of a vaccine
before the next wave?" -
16:01 - 16:05GB: Well you know, the fastest vaccine
that we've ever developed was measles, -
16:05 - 16:07and that took four years.
-
16:07 - 16:11Now, a lot of things are different, right?
-
16:11 - 16:14We have started on a SARS-one vaccine.
-
16:14 - 16:16So it had gone to a lot of animal trials,
-
16:16 - 16:19it had gone to some
very, very early human trials. -
16:19 - 16:21As you know, we just got some announcement
-
16:21 - 16:26that at least it does seem to work
in monkeys, in rhesus monkeys, -
16:26 - 16:31and there's some evidence that at least
it may be efficacious and safe -
16:31 - 16:33in a very, very small number of people.
-
16:33 - 16:35When I say very, very small
number of people, -
16:35 - 16:36handful of people.
-
16:36 - 16:40So now it's got to go to phase two
and phase three trials. -
16:40 - 16:44So, yeah, [David] held up two hands,
-
16:44 - 16:47so yeah, yeah, it's a small
number of people. -
16:47 - 16:50What that tells you is either
that those folks were very lucky, -
16:50 - 16:51or it works.
-
16:51 - 16:55And we won't know until we put this
into the arms of thousands of people. -
16:57 - 17:00CA: Here's an important question
from a TED Fellow. -
17:01 - 17:04"How do we actually train people
about what public health means? -
17:04 - 17:06Especially in the context of folks
-
17:06 - 17:09who don't believe they have
a responsibility to 'the public?'" -
17:10 - 17:13GB: Well, you know, I remind folks
-
17:13 - 17:15that when public health does its best job,
-
17:15 - 17:17nothing happens.
-
17:17 - 17:20And of course, when nothing happens,
we don't get credit for it. -
17:20 - 17:22So the reason that everyone
in this country -
17:22 - 17:26does not have to get up every morning
and boil their own water -
17:26 - 17:28is because of public health.
-
17:28 - 17:32The reason that,
if you get into a car accident, -
17:32 - 17:34you know, get into
an automobile collision, -
17:34 - 17:38and you wear your seat belt,
and you have airbags, -
17:38 - 17:42and you're not killed
from that automobile collision, -
17:42 - 17:43is because of public health.
-
17:43 - 17:45The reason that the air
is safe to breathe, -
17:46 - 17:48the food is safe to eat,
-
17:48 - 17:49is because of public health.
-
17:49 - 17:54The reason that your kids
are not in clothing that ignites -
17:54 - 17:57is because we have
fire-retardant clothing. -
17:57 - 17:59And that is a requirement.
-
17:59 - 18:02The reason that you don't trip
walking down the stairs -
18:02 - 18:07is because we've actually looked
at how to build the stair -
18:07 - 18:10so that people don't trip
when they go up or down it. -
18:10 - 18:12That's actually
a public health intervention. -
18:12 - 18:13So the built environment,
-
18:13 - 18:16medicines, all those kinds of things,
-
18:16 - 18:18vaccines, those are all public health,
-
18:18 - 18:22and that's why public health is there,
-
18:22 - 18:26and you may not believe
that it's that important, -
18:26 - 18:28but we couldn't live without it.
-
18:30 - 18:35CA: Maybe one day we can all
envision a health care system in America -
18:35 - 18:37that actually has some incentives
-
18:37 - 18:39that point towards public health.
-
18:39 - 18:41That would be very nice.
-
18:41 - 18:44David, I've got to just keep going
with some of these questions, if it's OK, -
18:44 - 18:46because they're pouring in.
-
18:46 - 18:49There's one here from Jacqueline Ashby.
-
18:49 - 18:51Important question for every parent.
-
18:51 - 18:54"What are your recommendations
about sending children back to school?" -
18:54 - 18:58GB: Yeah, I'm struggling with this one,
I've got three grandkids. -
18:58 - 19:03And the good news is that my grandkids
are more technically proficient than I am, -
19:03 - 19:06and right now are getting
their lessons remotely. -
19:08 - 19:09I think it's going to be a challenge
-
19:09 - 19:12as we think about sending
kids back to school. -
19:12 - 19:18We're going to really need to know
how infectious kids are -
19:18 - 19:21and how well they do
when they get infected. -
19:21 - 19:23Now, right now, it seems,
-
19:23 - 19:28except for a very small number
of children who get a very rare disease, -
19:28 - 19:30that they tolerate this disease very well.
-
19:30 - 19:33But the central question is,
-
19:33 - 19:38how many of these germs
will these kids bring back to you -
19:38 - 19:41and to grandma and grandpa.
-
19:41 - 19:42So that's going to be important.
-
19:42 - 19:45And you know, trying to tell
an eight-year-old -
19:45 - 19:47not to interact with their friends,
-
19:47 - 19:49is a real challenge.
-
19:49 - 19:52By the way, trying to tell a 17-year-old
not to interact with their friends -
19:52 - 19:54is going to be a real challenge.
-
19:54 - 19:57So, we've got to properly
educate these kids, -
19:57 - 20:00we've got to figure out
how we stagger their schedules. -
20:00 - 20:03Uri's idea for the workforce
-
20:03 - 20:07might be an interesting
concept for schools, -
20:07 - 20:11because the idea is to try to decompress
the number of kids in the classroom. -
20:11 - 20:14By the way, if you get smaller class size,
you get better education, anyway. -
20:15 - 20:18So, we've got to have
enough teachers, though. -
20:18 - 20:20So that may be the rate limiting step.
-
20:21 - 20:24CA: Alright, last question here for now
from [Steven] Petranek. -
20:24 - 20:27Masks. Advice on masks --
-
20:27 - 20:28I switched that off, here we go.
-
20:28 - 20:31Advice on masks seems to have shifted.
-
20:31 - 20:34"Would most Americans
who live and work in cities -
20:34 - 20:35be better off wearing masks
-
20:35 - 20:38to also help reduce
the air pollution particles -
20:38 - 20:40they encounter every day?"
-
20:40 - 20:42GB: It may help some, absolutely.
-
20:43 - 20:46But let me tell you
what I would prefer we stopped doing: -
20:46 - 20:48burning fossil fuels.
-
20:48 - 20:50And doing all those terrible things
-
20:50 - 20:53that we are doing to destroy our climate.
-
20:54 - 20:56You know, everyone's talking
about the fact -
20:56 - 20:59that we've had this amazing reduction
-
20:59 - 21:04in CO2 because we're not driving cars.
-
21:05 - 21:06I've got to tell you,
-
21:06 - 21:10that is the best evidence
that climate change is man-made. -
21:10 - 21:12All those climate change skeptics
-
21:12 - 21:15who don't think
climate change is man-made, -
21:15 - 21:19we have just had a worldwide demonstration
-
21:19 - 21:22on what people do
to create climate change. -
21:22 - 21:25And so what we need to do is stop
-
21:25 - 21:27and move to a green economy.
-
21:28 - 21:30DB: Here, here.
-
21:30 - 21:32CA: Thank you so much for those,
-
21:32 - 21:34I'll dip back in at the end
with maybe a couple more. -
21:34 - 21:36Thank you for this.
-
21:36 - 21:39DB: So we're waving the flag for masks.
-
21:39 - 21:42But also, one of the things
-
21:42 - 21:44that has become clear from this
-
21:44 - 21:50is that COVID-19 is not the great leveler
that maybe some had hoped it was. -
21:50 - 21:54Some communities
are experiencing much worse, -
21:54 - 21:57significantly worse outcomes than others.
-
21:57 - 21:58Why is that?
-
22:00 - 22:02GB: We're talking principally
about the African American -
22:02 - 22:04and Latino communities
-
22:04 - 22:10that seem to be disproportionately
impacted if they get the disease. -
22:10 - 22:13And it's because of exposure, primarily.
-
22:13 - 22:16Those populations
have more public-facing jobs. -
22:16 - 22:19So, you know, bus drivers,
-
22:19 - 22:20grocery clerks,
-
22:20 - 22:23working in long-term care facilities,
-
22:23 - 22:25nursing homes,
-
22:25 - 22:27in meatpacking facilities, chicken farms.
-
22:27 - 22:31So that's why they're much more --
going to be exposed to the disease. -
22:31 - 22:32Susceptibility.
-
22:34 - 22:35Lots of chronic disease.
-
22:35 - 22:37So we know that particularly
African Americans -
22:37 - 22:43have disproportionate amounts
of diabetes, heart disease, -
22:43 - 22:44lung disease,
-
22:44 - 22:48and because of those chronic diseases,
-
22:48 - 22:52we found early on that that virus
-
22:52 - 22:56is more detrimental to those populations
that have those diseases. -
22:56 - 22:58And so that's the big issue here.
-
22:58 - 23:01That is what's causing
those differentiations -
23:01 - 23:03and it's really a challenge,
-
23:04 - 23:06because in many ways,
-
23:06 - 23:08those are many of the people
-
23:08 - 23:11that we have decided
are essential employees -
23:11 - 23:13and have to go to work.
-
23:13 - 23:14DB: That's right.
-
23:14 - 23:17So what is, in your view,
the public health intervention -
23:17 - 23:21to protect these essential workers,
-
23:21 - 23:24if you have ideas on that front?
-
23:24 - 23:25GB: I absolutely do.
-
23:25 - 23:30We started this by a testing strategy
based on symptoms. -
23:30 - 23:33And now that we have enough tests,
-
23:33 - 23:37we need to make sure that not only people
get those tests for clinical reasons, -
23:37 - 23:39and people who have symptoms,
-
23:39 - 23:43but also begin to prioritize people
who are public-facing, -
23:43 - 23:44who are essential workers.
-
23:44 - 23:48So, certainly people working
in nursing homes, hospitals, etc., -
23:48 - 23:51but bus drivers, security guards,
-
23:51 - 23:52grocery store clerks.
-
23:52 - 23:54They need to be tested,
-
23:54 - 23:56and they need to have testing
with the periodicity -
23:56 - 23:58that will secure them, their families,
-
23:58 - 24:01and give everyone the trust
-
24:01 - 24:02that they're not going to be infected
-
24:02 - 24:05and we're not going to infect them.
-
24:05 - 24:07People who work in meatpacking plants,
-
24:07 - 24:08as an example.
-
24:08 - 24:10And we've seen the real tragedy
-
24:10 - 24:12of what's going on
in the meatpacking plants, -
24:12 - 24:15because they are working in an environment
where they're shoulder to shoulder. -
24:15 - 24:18There are some other things
they need to do -
24:18 - 24:21in terms of figuring out how to give them
physical distancing on the assembly line, -
24:21 - 24:23that's going to be important.
-
24:23 - 24:25But again, Uri's idea is not a bad idea
-
24:25 - 24:27for this nation to consider,
-
24:27 - 24:29for many of those industries
to think about. -
24:30 - 24:33DB: Yeah, we have to make sure
that these truly are folks -
24:33 - 24:38who are treated as essential workers,
not sacrificial workers, it seems to me. -
24:38 - 24:42And obviously, this is not
just confined to the US. -
24:43 - 24:44GB: Oh, absolutely.
-
24:44 - 24:47We're seeing these disparities
not just in the United States, -
24:47 - 24:49but in other countries as well.
-
24:49 - 24:53And they have a lot to do
with race and class -
24:53 - 24:55and the types of jobs that you do,
-
24:55 - 24:57the occupations that you do.
-
24:58 - 25:00And quite frankly,
-
25:00 - 25:05we should have thought about this
when we saw the first data -
25:05 - 25:07that showed that in China
-
25:07 - 25:11people with chronic diseases
were much more at risk -
25:11 - 25:13and had worse health outcomes.
-
25:13 - 25:15We would have sped up
our actions right away, -
25:15 - 25:18because, look, that's happened
with every new disease -
25:18 - 25:20that's come into the country.
-
25:21 - 25:27DB: So it seems like a lot of this
goes back to that potential -- -
25:27 - 25:28it's not an oxymoron,
-
25:28 - 25:31public health is everybody's job,
-
25:31 - 25:33and we need to adopt that.
-
25:33 - 25:35What does, in your view,
-
25:35 - 25:38a robust public health
infrastructure look like? -
25:38 - 25:40What would that look like?
-
25:41 - 25:43GB: Well, you know,
-
25:43 - 25:45anytime a new health threat
enters our community, -
25:45 - 25:47we ought to be able
to rapidly identify it, -
25:47 - 25:49contain it,
-
25:49 - 25:54and if we can mitigate it, for sure,
and eliminate it if possible, -
25:54 - 25:56and then put in
all the protective measures -
25:56 - 25:57that we had before.
-
25:57 - 26:01So that means having a well-staffed,
-
26:01 - 26:05well-trained governmental
public health entity, -
26:05 - 26:08just like we have for police, fire, EMS.
-
26:08 - 26:12It means that they've got to be well-paid,
-
26:12 - 26:15it means that they've got
to be well-resourced. -
26:15 - 26:18You know, we still have
some of our contact tracers -
26:18 - 26:21out there using pen and pads.
-
26:22 - 26:25And sending things to Excel Spreadsheets.
-
26:25 - 26:28No, we need the same kind
of robust technology -
26:28 - 26:31that the folks at, you know,
-
26:31 - 26:36any of the online retailers are using,
whether it's Amazon, etc. -
26:36 - 26:40We're still looking at data
that's two years in the rear -
26:40 - 26:42to make data-driven decisions.
-
26:42 - 26:44We need to be able
to make immediate decisions. -
26:44 - 26:46By the way, Taiwan,
-
26:46 - 26:48you mentioned them earlier,
-
26:48 - 26:49I remember being in Taiwan
-
26:49 - 26:54watching data come
from infectious diseases, real time, -
26:54 - 26:56from their electronic
medical record system. -
26:56 - 27:00So, you know, we can do this,
the technology exists. -
27:00 - 27:02DB: Imagine that.
-
27:02 - 27:04Wow, real time health information,
-
27:04 - 27:07what a difference that would make.
-
27:08 - 27:11Do you think that technology
can help us here, -
27:11 - 27:15whether that's the Google-Apple
collaboration or whatever else? -
27:16 - 27:18GB: Technology can help us,
-
27:18 - 27:20but it's not going to replace us.
-
27:20 - 27:23We're nowhere near where we can sit back
-
27:23 - 27:27and have our electronic avatar
do our work for us. -
27:28 - 27:30But the technology can outstrip our work.
-
27:30 - 27:33It can give us situational awareness.
-
27:33 - 27:36It can give us real time information.
-
27:36 - 27:39It allows us to send information
from point A to point B -
27:39 - 27:41for data analysis.
-
27:41 - 27:44It allows us to do second thinking,
-
27:44 - 27:46so we're doing all this modeling,
-
27:46 - 27:50it allows others to check
our numbers right away. -
27:50 - 27:53So it could speed up research.
-
27:53 - 27:56But we have to invest in it,
-
27:56 - 27:58and we have to continue it,
-
27:58 - 28:03because obsolescence is always
the evil part of technology. -
28:04 - 28:08DB: And it looks like
Chris is back with more questions. -
28:08 - 28:10CA: Yeah, I guess we're getting
close to the end, -
28:10 - 28:12but the questions keep coming in.
-
28:12 - 28:15There's one here from Neelay Bhatt.
-
28:15 - 28:20"What role do you see parks,
trails and open space play -
28:20 - 28:23in assisting larger public health goals?"
-
28:24 - 28:29GB: You know, green space
is absolutely essential, -
28:29 - 28:33and the ability to get out
and walk and exercise, -
28:33 - 28:36having sidewalks, so that you can have
communities that are walkable, -
28:36 - 28:40bikeable and green
for utilization of all ages, -
28:40 - 28:43it's good for our mental health,
it's good for our physical health. -
28:44 - 28:46And I always tell folks, you know,
-
28:46 - 28:50it's a great place to go
when someone's gotten on your last nerve. -
28:52 - 28:53CA: Indeed.
-
28:53 - 28:56Here we have one anonymous question.
-
28:56 - 28:59Where possible don't go anonymous,
-
28:59 - 29:02because we're all friends here
when all said and done. -
29:02 - 29:03Probably someone ... Anyway.
-
29:05 - 29:07Let's see, but it's a good question.
-
29:07 - 29:11"There are many who are highly suspicious
of what the real experts are saying. -
29:11 - 29:14What have you found to be effective
in helping the highly suspicious -
29:14 - 29:16be less suspicious and more trusting?"
-
29:16 - 29:18GB: Tell the truth.
-
29:19 - 29:24If you make a mistake, acknowledge it
and correct it right away. -
29:25 - 29:26Be consistent.
-
29:28 - 29:32And don't say stupid stuff.
-
29:34 - 29:37And far too often that happens.
-
29:37 - 29:39And you know, one
of the interesting things, -
29:39 - 29:42we've already been through this
with the mask discussion. -
29:42 - 29:46You know, traditional wisdom was
that we only had people wear the mask -
29:46 - 29:48if they were infectious,
-
29:48 - 29:50or you're in a health care environment
-
29:50 - 29:53where there was a high risk
of getting the disease. -
29:53 - 29:55And then we said,
-
29:55 - 29:58no, it's OK for everybody to wear a mask.
-
29:58 - 30:00And that's because we learned eventually,
-
30:00 - 30:03and became much more believable,
-
30:03 - 30:08in the science that we had
asymptomatic spreading. -
30:08 - 30:10But we did not communicate it very well.
-
30:10 - 30:13We said, oh, no, no,
we're changing our minds, -
30:13 - 30:14everybody can wear a mask,
-
30:14 - 30:16after telling people not to wear a mask.
-
30:16 - 30:19And then we didn't spend enough time
explaining to people why. -
30:19 - 30:21So we lost trust.
-
30:21 - 30:23So we need to do a better job of that.
-
30:23 - 30:27And then our leaders
-
30:27 - 30:30need to be very careful
what they say when you have a bullhorn. -
30:31 - 30:33And by the way, I've made mistakes,
-
30:33 - 30:37I've said things on TV
that were just wrong, -
30:37 - 30:39because I was wrong.
-
30:39 - 30:41And I've tried very hard
to try to correct those -
30:41 - 30:43as quickly as I can.
-
30:43 - 30:44All of us do that,
-
30:44 - 30:47but you have to be strong enough
-
30:47 - 30:50and have a strong enough personality
to say when you're wrong -
30:50 - 30:52and then correct it.
-
30:52 - 30:55Because at the end of the day,
once you've lost trust, -
30:55 - 30:57you've lost everything.
-
30:59 - 31:00CA: Well if I might say so,
-
31:00 - 31:03just the way in which
you're communicating right now, -
31:03 - 31:06I mean, to me, that is
a means of communication -
31:06 - 31:08that engenders trust.
-
31:09 - 31:11I don't know what magic sauce
you have going there, -
31:11 - 31:15but it's very, very compelling
listening to you. -
31:15 - 31:17Thank you so much for this.
-
31:17 - 31:19David, do you have any other last cues?
-
31:19 - 31:22GB: I've made lots of mistakes.
-
31:22 - 31:25DB: Yeah, no, but it really
has been a real pleasure -
31:25 - 31:27to have you join us,
and thank you for that. -
31:27 - 31:29Just one final question if I may.
-
31:30 - 31:33You've been doing this for a while,
-
31:33 - 31:36what gives you hope looking forward?
-
31:38 - 31:40GB: You know, let me tell you something.
-
31:40 - 31:42The one thing that gives me hope
-
31:42 - 31:45is when I see people taking care
of their friends and family members. -
31:45 - 31:49I mean, drive-by birthday parties.
-
31:49 - 31:51I saw that on the news today.
-
31:51 - 31:53People who are calling their friends.
-
31:53 - 31:56I've heard from people
that I haven't talked to in years, -
31:56 - 31:57who are just calling me to say,
-
31:57 - 32:00"I haven't talked to you
for a long time. Are you OK?" -
32:00 - 32:01So do more of that.
-
32:01 - 32:04And the trust we've had in one another,
-
32:04 - 32:07and the love we've shown,
it's just been absolutely amazing, -
32:07 - 32:08so that gives me hope.
-
32:08 - 32:10DB: Humanity for the win in the end.
-
32:11 - 32:13GB: Yeah.
-
32:13 - 32:16DB: Well, thank you so much, Dr. Benjamin,
-
32:16 - 32:18for joining us
and for sharing your wisdom. -
32:20 - 32:21GB: Glad to be here.
-
32:21 - 32:23CA: Yes, thank you.
-
32:23 - 32:24GB: You guys be safe.
-
32:24 - 32:26Your families be safe.
-
32:26 - 32:28DB: Thank you, you too.
- Title:
- The secret weapon against pandemics
- Speaker:
- Georges C. Benjamin, David Biello, Chris Anderson
- Description:
-
The coronavirus pandemic won't be the last crisis to test public health systems worldwide, says physician and health policy leader Georges C. Benjamin. He details what's needed to lead us out of the pandemic and prevent future ones -- including a robust governmental health entity equipped with updated technology and well-trained staff -- and explains how citizens, businesses and political leaders can do their part to put public health first. (This virtual conversation, hosted by science curator David Biello and head of TED Chris Anderson, was recorded on May 20, 2020.)
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 32:41
Erin Gregory edited English subtitles for The secret weapon against pandemics | ||
Erin Gregory approved English subtitles for The secret weapon against pandemics | ||
Erin Gregory edited English subtitles for The secret weapon against pandemics | ||
Joanna Pietrulewicz accepted English subtitles for The secret weapon against pandemics | ||
Joanna Pietrulewicz edited English subtitles for The secret weapon against pandemics | ||
Joanna Pietrulewicz edited English subtitles for The secret weapon against pandemics | ||
Ivana Korom edited English subtitles for The secret weapon against pandemics | ||
Ivana Korom edited English subtitles for The secret weapon against pandemics |