Jonathan Safran Foer: Die cutting a novel

Conversation with Jonathan Safran Foer about his book and artwork Tree of Codes, a novel that has been carved out of another novel by one of Foer's favourite novelists, Bruno Schulz.

The Times described Jonathan Safran Foer's (born 1977) Tree of Codes as a "true work of art". His publisher calls it a "sculptural object". To create the book, Foer took Bruno Schulz's novel The Street of Crocodiles and cut out the majority of the words. Foer himself explains that by removing words, he carved out a new story. In this conversation with the Danish journalist and publicist Synne Rifbjerg, Foer tells the story behind the book -- that he was called by a publisher one day, offering him a free hand to do any book he liked. Foer further explains why he used Bruno Schulz's book as a point of departure. In the end the conversation turns toward Foer's Jewish heritage and how -- against his own will -- it engraves itself in his writing.

Jonathan Safran Foer was interviewed by Synne Rifbjerg as part of the Louisiana Literature festival in August 2012.
Recorded August 23 2012 at the Concert Hall of the Louisiana Museum of Modern Art.

Produced by: Kamilla Bruus

Copyright: Louisiana Channel, Louisiana Museum of Modern Art.

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Supported by Nordea-fonden.

You know, when I made this book, I didn't think of it

as something that would be difficult to read at all

and I imagine everybody who writes something difficult feels that way

when they send it out into the world.

So, the book is somewhat confusing because it has

a three dimensional aspect.

You can see literally into the book.

I should describe what the book is first.

About maybe three years ago, I got an email

from someone I'd never heard of before

saying, I'm starting a new publishing house

a kind of art literary publishing house, and would you like to make a book? And I can't promise you...

and there's a long list of things she couldn't promise.

I can't promise you lots of sales. I can't promise you

an advance.

I can't promise you this and that and that,

but what I can promise you is that we'll make any book

you want to make.

We'll make it as beautifully as it could be made.

And it's not that I was bowled over by that

so much as I didn't believe it,

and I thought, well she probably doesn't know what she's saying.

Maybe she thought I would want to

I don't know, doodle in a book or something,

but to say we can make any book you want to make...

and so I started thinking, what are the limits

of a book I would want to make?

Not because they were the limits of what a book could be,

but because they were the limits of what I wanted.

And I had for a long time been interested

in a process called die-cutting,

which is an ancient, I don't know if it's ancient, but it's very, very old.

It's been used as long as there's been manufacturing

of pretty much any kind, and it's basically

taking a material out of a material

with a stamp.

Pushing something through a material.

So your car door is made by die-cutting

a piece of steel or whatever.

It's a tough word. I mean, die-cutting.

Die-cutting.

When I saw it the first time, I thought, wow.

Die hard cutting.

It's almost onomatopoeic.

It's not because it doesn't make that sound when it's done,

but it's almost like a Yiddish word.

It sounds like what it is.

In any case, I had wanted to do something

with paper, with die-cutting,

and so I asked her if that would be possible,

and she said yes.

And so we entered into this process that

ended up taking a couple of years,

and I started with one of my favorite books,

which is Bruno Schulz's Street of Crocodiles,

and tried to carve out of it another story.

And I did.

How do you choose words from a text that you

love as much as you love the text by Bruno Schulz?

Well, in a way, loving the text didn't have anything to do with it.

I loved the text because it was so almost exactly because

it was so good for this purpose.

You know, it's just so...

you know, if you were going to eat a food that you love,

you would prefer that the plate be overflowing with it

rather than that there be a tiny little bit in the center of the plate.

I would, anyway.

That's probably a very American thing I just said.

But his book is overflowing with things that I love,

and so when I had to choose the book to commit to a book

to use this process with,

I wanted a very rich palette.

You know, if you're a painter, you don't want a palette with two colors.

Well you might, but you would rather have the choice of as many colors as there are,

and I think his book offers as many colors as any book that there is.