WEBVTT 00:00:06.180 --> 00:00:08.080 ["New York Close Up"] 00:00:08.440 --> 00:00:09.820 [Eric Winkler, artist] 00:00:09.820 --> 00:00:11.280 [WINKLER] I met Bryan at a Halloween party. 00:00:11.280 --> 00:00:12.240 [Bryan Zanisnik, artist] 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:13.460 [WINKLER] He was in the arts, 00:00:13.469 --> 00:00:14.549 I'm in the arts. 00:00:14.549 --> 00:00:16.469 We both grew up in New Jersey. 00:00:16.469 --> 00:00:19.449 We basically had the same kind of life. 00:00:22.700 --> 00:00:26.740 ["Bryan Zanisnik & Eric Winkler's Animated Conversation"] 00:00:26.740 --> 00:00:27.940 [You go swimming! I'm making art!] 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:34.640 [WINKLER] And then we started doing the comics 00:00:35.239 --> 00:00:36.739 just because... 00:00:36.739 --> 00:00:39.699 I think Bryan has always wanted to be able to draw something. 00:00:40.260 --> 00:00:41.840 He can't do it, though. 00:00:42.260 --> 00:00:44.480 His sculptures are like drawings. 00:00:44.489 --> 00:00:46.789 He tries things and erases things. 00:00:46.789 --> 00:00:50.349 The way he works is very similar to drawing. 00:00:51.800 --> 00:00:53.880 He's Italian by way of New Jersey, 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:56.740 by way of wanting to be mildly Jewish. 00:00:57.340 --> 00:00:59.699 That wraps up into basically 00:00:59.699 --> 00:01:01.649 him using his hands a lot, 00:01:01.649 --> 00:01:03.350 just talking about, like, 00:01:03.350 --> 00:01:04.809 all kinds of crazy things. 00:01:05.240 --> 00:01:06.560 After years of friendship, 00:01:06.570 --> 00:01:09.810 I know that he's going to tell me a crazy story 00:01:09.810 --> 00:01:11.170 and I'm going to have to say, 00:01:11.170 --> 00:01:12.930 "So which part was really true?" 00:01:13.360 --> 00:01:14.220 [ZANISNIK] Yeah, I don't know. 00:01:14.220 --> 00:01:15.700 I got this, like, really weird flu. 00:01:15.710 --> 00:01:16.979 My head started pounding me. 00:01:16.979 --> 00:01:18.200 I'm mostly better, but I'm just, like, 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:19.620 really confused now. 00:01:19.979 --> 00:01:21.509 I don't know, but... 00:01:21.509 --> 00:01:23.670 there could be fluid building around my brain as we speak. 00:01:23.670 --> 00:01:25.610 And sometimes, I'll be, like, sitting at home, 00:01:26.060 --> 00:01:26.850 all by myself, 00:01:26.850 --> 00:01:27.930 and I'd just say, 00:01:27.930 --> 00:01:29.250 "I'm Bryan Zanisnik." 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:31.480 "I live in Ridgewood, New York." 00:01:32.509 --> 00:01:33.469 "I'm an artist." 00:01:34.380 --> 00:01:36.399 And I kind of just repeat facts about myself, 00:01:36.399 --> 00:01:37.979 because I think if I know these things 00:01:37.979 --> 00:01:39.340 and I'm not confused, 00:01:39.340 --> 00:01:40.310 I could make the argument 00:01:40.310 --> 00:01:42.409 that if I think I'm confused, I'm not 00:01:42.409 --> 00:01:44.409 because confused people don't know they're confused. 00:01:44.720 --> 00:01:47.440 But I'm pretty sure there's fluid forming around my brain. 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:52.360 --We ought to think about what we want to make 00:01:52.369 --> 00:01:55.049 --our next comics about. 00:01:55.049 --> 00:01:57.130 --Because we could either 00:01:57.130 --> 00:02:00.850 --address some of the more current things that are going on. 00:02:00.850 --> 00:02:02.370 [WINKLER] Like, what were you thinking? 00:02:03.060 --> 00:02:04.520 [ZANISNIK] [SIGHS] I don't know, you know... 00:02:04.530 --> 00:02:06.310 [WINKLER] So what's going on in the work now? 00:02:06.310 --> 00:02:07.280 [ZANISNIK] So, yeah, I'm working on this project. 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:09.040 I'm, like, building this library. 00:02:09.040 --> 00:02:12.340 You know, it's all based around the time Philip Roth almost... 00:02:12.340 --> 00:02:13.420 [WINKLER] He tried to sue you... 00:02:13.420 --> 00:02:15.100 [ZANISNIK] Yeah, Roth tried to sue me. 00:02:15.100 --> 00:02:17.080 ["The Seventh Lawsuit" starring Philip Roth as Death] 00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:24.720 --[ZANISNIK, IMPERSONATING ROTH] I'm Roth, 00:02:24.720 --> 00:02:28.400 --I will be by your side a long while, 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:30.300 --as will my lawyers. 00:02:30.300 --> 00:02:31.419 --[ZANISNIK] No! No! 00:02:31.420 --> 00:02:32.379 --Get out of my brain! 00:02:32.379 --> 00:02:35.010 So, back in 2012, 00:02:35.010 --> 00:02:37.319 I was doing this performance at Abrons Art Center 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:40.950 where, in the middle of these thousands of objects, 00:02:40.950 --> 00:02:44.070 there was this twelve-foot-tall glass container, 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:45.950 and then I was holding this Philip Roth novel. 00:02:45.950 --> 00:02:47.120 I wasn't even reading it out loud-- 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:48.320 I was just holding it. 00:02:48.320 --> 00:02:50.300 And he found out about this 00:02:50.310 --> 00:02:52.560 and he tried to sue me. 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:54.480 So yesterday I went on Amazon 00:02:54.480 --> 00:02:56.540 and bought 550 Philip Roth novels. 00:02:56.540 --> 00:02:57.020 [WINKLER] No you didn't! 00:02:57.020 --> 00:02:57.959 So then how much did they cost? 00:02:57.959 --> 00:02:59.099 [ZANISNIK] It's like, uh... 00:02:59.099 --> 00:03:00.599 I don't, it's like 1,600 bucks for five... 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:01.219 It was cheap! 00:03:01.220 --> 00:03:01.760 [WINKLER] Hmmm! 00:03:01.760 --> 00:03:05.040 [ZANISNIK] So now I'm collecting a huge library of his works. 00:03:05.040 --> 00:03:07.269 You know, it's The Philip Roth Presidential Library. 00:03:07.269 --> 00:03:10.370 I have a 3D-modeled printed bust of Roth. 00:03:10.370 --> 00:03:11.420 [WINKLER] Your new roommate! 00:03:12.940 --> 00:03:13.600 [RADIO PROGRAM PLAYS] 00:03:13.600 --> 00:03:15.940 --"This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross." 00:03:15.940 --> 00:03:17.980 --"Happy birthday, Philip Roth!" 00:03:18.040 --> 00:03:19.800 [WINKLER] You think he's going to sue you again? 00:03:19.810 --> 00:03:21.790 [ZANISNIK] Well, I'm hoping, but... 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:24.360 don't tell the gallery in Miami this. 00:03:24.420 --> 00:03:26.580 I'm actually going down there on Thursday. 00:03:37.880 --> 00:03:39.040 --[TSA agent] "What is this, a joke?" 00:03:39.040 --> 00:03:39.960 --"Whose bag is this?" 00:03:40.480 --> 00:03:42.100 --"You want to explain this to me?" 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:43.580 [ZANISNIK] I was in graduate school, 00:03:43.590 --> 00:03:45.260 and I was shooting these videos. 00:03:45.260 --> 00:03:47.780 And then after the videos were finished, 00:03:47.780 --> 00:03:50.019 I was taking objects from the videos, 00:03:50.019 --> 00:03:52.859 arranging them on the wall as a tableau, 00:03:52.860 --> 00:03:54.000 and then photographing them. 00:03:54.010 --> 00:03:56.299 And I began realizing these photographs 00:03:56.299 --> 00:03:59.549 were actually even more interesting than the videos themselves. 00:03:59.549 --> 00:04:00.879 And I think in recent years, 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:03.000 I've really been interested in seeing 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:06.340 how far I can push it site-specifically. 00:04:10.380 --> 00:04:11.600 Yeah, let's keep talking about that, 00:04:11.610 --> 00:04:13.189 because I really feel like there's something in there... 00:04:13.189 --> 00:04:14.960 in the comic book about... 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:16.159 [WINKLER] No, I'm already getting ideas, 00:04:16.159 --> 00:04:17.400 so I think it's good, but... 00:04:17.400 --> 00:04:19.000 You're doing something at the Queens Museum, right? 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:21.360 [ZANISNIK] Yeah, well my studio is there for the year now. 00:04:24.940 --> 00:04:25.899 I'm working on this project 00:04:25.899 --> 00:04:27.679 where I'm building these sets 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:29.400 for photographs. 00:04:32.340 --> 00:04:33.500 I don't know if you remember... 00:04:33.510 --> 00:04:34.960 you came by studio in DUMBO last year? 00:04:34.960 --> 00:04:37.960 Remember how it had this, like, crazy view of the Manhattan skyline? 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:39.060 [WINKER] Yeah, yeah. 00:04:39.060 --> 00:04:41.419 [ZANISNIK] So I built these sets over the windows, 00:04:41.419 --> 00:04:42.739 and then I kind of, like, punched holes. 00:04:42.740 --> 00:04:44.280 [SOUND OF PAPER TEARING] 00:04:47.500 --> 00:04:49.479 When I went to the Queens Museum, 00:04:49.479 --> 00:04:50.860 I kind of thought I wanted to continue this. 00:04:50.860 --> 00:04:52.430 [WINKLER] Not as good of a view, though. 00:04:52.430 --> 00:04:54.229 [ZANISNIK] I don't have windows in my studio, 00:04:54.229 --> 00:04:55.349 so that's a problem. 00:04:56.789 --> 00:04:59.520 But, right outside the museum 00:04:59.520 --> 00:05:02.140 are all the monuments from the World's Fair. 00:05:05.520 --> 00:05:07.480 People think I do this in Photoshop. 00:05:07.950 --> 00:05:09.649 I think that these places 00:05:09.649 --> 00:05:12.219 that are so much tied to the city 00:05:12.219 --> 00:05:13.860 or identified with the city 00:05:13.860 --> 00:05:18.380 are just almost becoming outside of our reach. 00:05:18.380 --> 00:05:19.490 Like even with the Queens Museum, 00:05:19.490 --> 00:05:20.710 it's an amazing institution, 00:05:20.710 --> 00:05:23.510 but I am practically half a foot in Long Island. 00:05:23.510 --> 00:05:25.149 So I'm feeling like I'm being, like, 00:05:25.149 --> 00:05:26.450 pushed and pushed, 00:05:26.450 --> 00:05:28.659 like the things that we identify as a city-- 00:05:28.659 --> 00:05:30.820 and the iconic New York City-- 00:05:30.820 --> 00:05:32.849 are, like, slipping away from artists. 00:05:33.440 --> 00:05:36.060 And I think, in a way, it also feels like-- 00:05:36.070 --> 00:05:37.330 to me, this project-- 00:05:37.330 --> 00:05:39.200 I feel, in some weird ways, 00:05:39.200 --> 00:05:41.980 it's almost kind of a goodbye to New York. 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:45.000 ["Escape from New York"] 00:06:00.100 --> 00:06:01.839 My work is very personal, 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:03.450 but I've been careful not to get 00:06:03.450 --> 00:06:05.399 too indulgent in autobiography, 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:08.360 but Eric can address it directly in a comic. 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:09.140 And I like that. 00:06:09.140 --> 00:06:09.649 I like this idea 00:06:09.649 --> 00:06:11.870 that it sort of contextualizes-- 00:06:11.870 --> 00:06:13.959 it brings another level of autobiography. 00:06:14.740 --> 00:06:16.460 This is that performance where 00:06:16.469 --> 00:06:19.209 I was wearing baguettes as arms 00:06:19.209 --> 00:06:20.509 and they got ripped off 00:06:21.070 --> 00:06:23.650 and then my mom and dad ate my arms. 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:24.640 [WINKLER, LAUGHING] Right! 00:06:24.640 --> 00:06:25.940 [ZANISNIK] That was a good time. 00:06:26.260 --> 00:06:30.279 [WINKLER] The character is a little more arrogant. 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:32.529 Not that Bryan isn't slightly arrogant. 00:06:32.529 --> 00:06:33.550 Sometimes that comes across. 00:06:34.320 --> 00:06:37.420 [ZANISNIK] There's a lot of similarities between Eric and I. 00:06:38.529 --> 00:06:43.250 He lost his mother to cancer two years ago 00:06:43.250 --> 00:06:45.940 and I lost my mom to cancer last year. 00:06:45.940 --> 00:06:49.440 So I think there's also kind of been a real, sort of, 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:52.719 new depth to our friendship there, 00:06:52.719 --> 00:06:54.870 and us kind of both having gone through this loss 00:06:54.870 --> 00:06:56.730 early in our lives. 00:07:00.380 --> 00:07:01.820 How's your dad doing? 00:07:02.300 --> 00:07:03.080 [WINKLER] He's okay. 00:07:03.080 --> 00:07:04.280 [ZANISNIK] It's always weird, 00:07:04.280 --> 00:07:05.760 it's like how do you... 00:07:05.770 --> 00:07:08.740 how do you talk about losing your mom, without... 00:07:09.620 --> 00:07:11.120 It feels like I always just go to, like, 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:12.080 talking about my dad. 00:07:12.080 --> 00:07:14.459 [WINKER] No, I mean, there's different stages of, like, 00:07:14.459 --> 00:07:16.039 having to deal with it, 00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:17.420 and then, like, how you feel, 00:07:17.420 --> 00:07:18.340 like, during different stages. 00:07:18.349 --> 00:07:18.830 No, I still... 00:07:18.830 --> 00:07:19.890 you know, I get... 00:07:19.890 --> 00:07:22.310 Like, I have hard days. 00:07:33.260 --> 00:07:34.460 [ZANISNIK] My mom was... 00:07:34.460 --> 00:07:35.060 a real character. 00:07:35.060 --> 00:07:36.020 [WINKER] Your mom was a character. 00:07:36.020 --> 00:07:36.520 So was mine. 00:07:36.520 --> 00:07:37.180 [ZANISNIK] Yeah, so was yours. 00:07:37.190 --> 00:07:38.630 And it's crazy thinking about, like, 00:07:38.630 --> 00:07:40.580 how many comics did you draw of my mom--a lot! 00:07:40.580 --> 00:07:41.540 [WINKLER] I know, a lot! 00:07:41.550 --> 00:07:42.210 [BOTH] Yeah. 00:07:44.020 --> 00:07:44.880 [WINKLER] It's weird sometimes, 00:07:44.880 --> 00:07:46.740 because I want to put her back in sometimes. 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:49.620 [ZANISNIK] Maybe it's a weird thing to say, 00:07:49.620 --> 00:07:51.300 but I feel like she would like it. 00:07:53.260 --> 00:07:54.440 Someone said to me once, 00:07:54.450 --> 00:07:56.450 "The relationship doesn't really end." 00:07:56.820 --> 00:07:58.000 Like, it just changes-- 00:07:58.000 --> 00:07:59.649 in a very different, 00:07:59.649 --> 00:08:01.300 kind of, often sad way. 00:08:01.300 --> 00:08:03.399 But it's not like it completely ends a hundred percent. 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:04.360 [WINKLER] Right. 00:08:06.100 --> 00:08:08.399 [ZANISNIK] You know, I probably had done 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:10.330 around thirty performances with my parents, 00:08:10.330 --> 00:08:11.279 believe it or not, 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:12.870 over seven years. 00:08:14.320 --> 00:08:15.660 One of the things that was really nice 00:08:15.669 --> 00:08:18.130 is my relationship with them 00:08:18.130 --> 00:08:20.190 really evolved over those years.