1 00:00:12,997 --> 00:00:16,062 Three planes, 25 hours, 10,000 miles. 2 00:00:16,097 --> 00:00:19,797 My dad gets off a flight from Australia with one thing in mind 3 00:00:19,830 --> 00:00:23,330 and it's not a snack or a shower or a nap. 4 00:00:23,363 --> 00:00:24,762 It's November 2016 5 00:00:24,797 --> 00:00:28,930 and Dad is here to talk to Americans about the election. 6 00:00:29,463 --> 00:00:31,797 Now, Dad's a news fiend, but for him, 7 00:00:31,830 --> 00:00:36,629 this is not just red or blue, swing states or party platforms. 8 00:00:36,663 --> 00:00:39,062 He has some really specific intentions. 9 00:00:39,063 --> 00:00:43,263 He wants to listen, be heard and understand. 10 00:00:43,863 --> 00:00:46,763 And over two weeks, he has hundreds of conversations 11 00:00:46,763 --> 00:00:49,730 with Americans from New Hampshire to Miami. 12 00:00:49,763 --> 00:00:52,629 Some of them are tough conversations, 13 00:00:52,630 --> 00:00:55,363 complete differences of opinions, 14 00:00:55,397 --> 00:00:57,897 wildly different worldviews, 15 00:00:57,930 --> 00:01:01,063 radically opposite life experiences. 16 00:01:01,397 --> 00:01:03,163 But in all of those interactions, 17 00:01:03,197 --> 00:01:05,797 Dad walks away with a big smile on his face 18 00:01:05,830 --> 00:01:07,797 and so does the other person. 19 00:01:07,830 --> 00:01:09,997 You can see one of them here. 20 00:01:10,030 --> 00:01:12,430 And in those interactions, 21 00:01:12,430 --> 00:01:16,897 he's having a version of what it seems like we have less of, 22 00:01:16,930 --> 00:01:18,663 but want more of -- 23 00:01:18,663 --> 00:01:21,363 a constructive conversation. 24 00:01:21,930 --> 00:01:24,463 We have more ways than ever to connect. 25 00:01:24,497 --> 00:01:27,263 And yet, politically, ideologically, 26 00:01:27,297 --> 00:01:30,497 it feels like we are further and further apart. 27 00:01:30,863 --> 00:01:35,063 We tell pollsters that we want politicians who are open-minded. 28 00:01:35,563 --> 00:01:38,063 And yet when they change their point of view, 29 00:01:38,063 --> 00:01:40,497 we say that they lacked conviction. 30 00:01:41,263 --> 00:01:43,597 For us, when we're confronted with information 31 00:01:43,630 --> 00:01:47,062 that challenges an existing worldview, 32 00:01:47,097 --> 00:01:50,830 our tendency is not to open up, it's to double down. 33 00:01:50,863 --> 00:01:53,463 We even have a term for it in social psychology. 34 00:01:53,497 --> 00:01:56,263 It's called belief perseverance. 35 00:01:56,730 --> 00:02:01,463 And boy, do some people's beliefs seem to persevere. 36 00:02:02,363 --> 00:02:05,563 I'm no stranger to tough conversations. 37 00:02:05,597 --> 00:02:08,996 I got my start in what I now call productive disagreement 38 00:02:09,030 --> 00:02:10,430 in high school debate. 39 00:02:10,463 --> 00:02:11,763 I even went on to win 40 00:02:11,797 --> 00:02:14,897 the World Schools Debate Championship three times. 41 00:02:14,930 --> 00:02:17,497 I've been in a lot of arguments, is what I'm saying, 42 00:02:17,530 --> 00:02:22,163 but it took watching my dad on the streets of the US 43 00:02:22,163 --> 00:02:24,163 to understand that we need to figure out 44 00:02:24,197 --> 00:02:26,697 how we go into conversations. 45 00:02:27,130 --> 00:02:30,763 Not looking for the victory, but the progress. 46 00:02:31,230 --> 00:02:34,429 And so since November 2016, that's what I've been doing. 47 00:02:34,463 --> 00:02:38,963 Working with governments, foundations, corporations, families, 48 00:02:38,997 --> 00:02:41,230 to uncover the tools and techniques 49 00:02:41,230 --> 00:02:45,697 that allow us to talk when it feels like the divide is unbridgeable. 50 00:02:46,097 --> 00:02:52,197 And constructive conversations that really move the dialogue forward 51 00:02:52,230 --> 00:02:54,997 have these same three essential features. 52 00:02:55,330 --> 00:02:59,263 First, at least one party in the conversation 53 00:02:59,263 --> 00:03:02,930 is willing to choose curiosity over clash. 54 00:03:03,497 --> 00:03:08,530 They're open to the idea that the discussion is a climbing wall, 55 00:03:08,563 --> 00:03:10,162 not a cage fight, 56 00:03:10,197 --> 00:03:12,863 that they'll make progress over time 57 00:03:12,897 --> 00:03:19,063 and are able to anchor all of that in purpose of the discussion. 58 00:03:19,497 --> 00:03:21,963 For someone trained in formal debate, 59 00:03:21,997 --> 00:03:27,197 it is so tempting to run headlong at the disagreement. 60 00:03:27,230 --> 00:03:29,429 In fact, we call that clash 61 00:03:29,463 --> 00:03:31,430 and in formal argumentation, 62 00:03:31,430 --> 00:03:34,230 it's a punishable offense if there's not enough of it. 63 00:03:34,563 --> 00:03:36,863 But I've noticed, you've probably noticed, too, 64 00:03:36,897 --> 00:03:41,429 that in real life that tends to make people shut down, 65 00:03:41,430 --> 00:03:43,463 not just from the conversation, 66 00:03:43,497 --> 00:03:46,330 but even from the relationship. 67 00:03:46,330 --> 00:03:52,397 It's actually one of the causes of unfriending, online and off. 68 00:03:52,430 --> 00:03:55,330 So instead, you might consider a technique 69 00:03:55,363 --> 00:03:58,330 made popular by the Hollywood producer Brian Grazer, 70 00:03:58,363 --> 00:04:00,663 the curiosity conversation. 71 00:04:01,030 --> 00:04:04,563 And the whole point of a curiosity conversation 72 00:04:04,597 --> 00:04:07,697 is to understand the other person's perspective, 73 00:04:07,730 --> 00:04:10,530 to see what's on their side of the fence. 74 00:04:11,030 --> 00:04:12,897 And so the next time 75 00:04:12,930 --> 00:04:18,197 that someone says something you instinctively disagree with, 76 00:04:18,230 --> 00:04:21,463 that you react violently to, 77 00:04:21,497 --> 00:04:25,097 you only need one sentence and one question: 78 00:04:25,763 --> 00:04:28,697 “I never thought about it exactly that way before. 79 00:04:28,730 --> 00:04:33,530 What can you share that would help me see what you see?” 80 00:04:34,397 --> 00:04:37,397 What's remarkable about curiosity conversations 81 00:04:37,430 --> 00:04:42,563 is that the people you are curious about tend to become curious about you. 82 00:04:42,597 --> 00:04:45,397 Whether it's a friendly Australian gentleman, 83 00:04:45,430 --> 00:04:48,130 a political foe or a corporate rival, 84 00:04:48,163 --> 00:04:51,563 they begin to wonder what it is that you see 85 00:04:51,597 --> 00:04:53,930 and whether they could see it to. 86 00:04:54,663 --> 00:04:58,797 Constructive conversations aren't a one-shot deal. 87 00:04:59,263 --> 00:05:04,330 If you go into an encounter expecting everyone to walk out 88 00:05:04,363 --> 00:05:07,363 with the same point of view that you walked in with, 89 00:05:07,397 --> 00:05:09,997 there's really no chance for progress. 90 00:05:10,463 --> 00:05:15,630 Instead, we need to think about conversations as a climbing wall 91 00:05:15,663 --> 00:05:18,963 to do a variant of what my dad did during this trip, 92 00:05:18,997 --> 00:05:21,997 pocketing a little nugget of information here, 93 00:05:22,030 --> 00:05:24,229 adapting his approach there. 94 00:05:24,263 --> 00:05:27,229 That's actually a technique borrowed from formal debate 95 00:05:27,263 --> 00:05:29,363 where you present an idea, 96 00:05:29,363 --> 00:05:32,963 it's attacked and you adapt and re-explain, 97 00:05:32,963 --> 00:05:34,230 it's attacked again, 98 00:05:34,263 --> 00:05:36,197 you adapt and re-explain. 99 00:05:36,230 --> 00:05:40,697 The whole expectation is that your idea gets better 100 00:05:40,730 --> 00:05:43,197 through challenge and criticism. 101 00:05:43,697 --> 00:05:49,363 And the evidence from really high-stakes international negotiations 102 00:05:49,397 --> 00:05:52,830 suggests that that's what successful negotiators do as well. 103 00:05:52,863 --> 00:05:54,930 They go into conversations 104 00:05:54,963 --> 00:05:58,797 expecting to learn from the challenges that they will receive 105 00:05:58,830 --> 00:06:03,397 to use objections to make their ideas and proposals better. 106 00:06:03,730 --> 00:06:09,163 Development is in some way a service that we can do for others 107 00:06:09,197 --> 00:06:11,563 and that others can do for us. 108 00:06:11,997 --> 00:06:14,563 It makes the ideas sharper, 109 00:06:14,563 --> 00:06:16,796 but the relationships warmer. 110 00:06:17,397 --> 00:06:20,397 Curiosity can be relationship magic 111 00:06:20,397 --> 00:06:24,063 and development can be rocket fuel for your ideas. 112 00:06:24,863 --> 00:06:27,430 But there are some situations 113 00:06:27,463 --> 00:06:32,263 where it just feels like it's not worth the bother. 114 00:06:32,897 --> 00:06:35,263 And in those cases 115 00:06:35,297 --> 00:06:39,030 it can be because the purpose of the discussion isn't clear. 116 00:06:39,630 --> 00:06:43,363 I think back to how my dad went into those conversations 117 00:06:43,363 --> 00:06:46,063 with a really clear sense of purpose. 118 00:06:46,063 --> 00:06:50,363 He was there to learn, to listen, to share his point of view. 119 00:06:50,697 --> 00:06:54,763 And once that purpose is understood by both parties, 120 00:06:54,797 --> 00:06:56,963 then you can begin to move on. 121 00:06:56,963 --> 00:06:58,930 Lay out our vision for the future. 122 00:06:58,963 --> 00:07:00,330 Make a decision. 123 00:07:00,363 --> 00:07:01,730 Get funding. 124 00:07:01,763 --> 00:07:04,097 Then you can move on to principles. 125 00:07:04,697 --> 00:07:10,430 When people shared with my dad their hopes for America, 126 00:07:10,463 --> 00:07:13,930 that's where they started with the big picture, 127 00:07:13,963 --> 00:07:18,263 not with personality or politics or policies. 128 00:07:18,697 --> 00:07:21,530 Because inadvertently they were doing something 129 00:07:21,563 --> 00:07:25,229 that we do naturally with outsiders 130 00:07:25,263 --> 00:07:30,162 and find it really difficult sometimes to do with insiders. 131 00:07:30,730 --> 00:07:33,263 They painted in broad strokes 132 00:07:33,263 --> 00:07:36,063 before digging into the details. 133 00:07:36,563 --> 00:07:40,130 But maybe you live in the same zip code or the same house 134 00:07:40,163 --> 00:07:44,197 and it feels like none of that common ground is there today. 135 00:07:44,963 --> 00:07:49,563 Then you might consider a version of disagreement time travel, 136 00:07:49,563 --> 00:07:55,729 asking your counterpart to articulate what kind of neighborhood, country, 137 00:07:55,763 --> 00:07:57,929 world, community, 138 00:07:57,930 --> 00:08:00,063 they want a year from now, 139 00:08:00,097 --> 00:08:01,530 a decade from now. 140 00:08:02,197 --> 00:08:06,430 It is very tempting to dwell in present tensions 141 00:08:06,463 --> 00:08:08,997 and get bogged down in practicalities. 142 00:08:09,763 --> 00:08:14,496 Inviting people to inhabit a future possibility 143 00:08:14,497 --> 00:08:17,997 opens up the chance of a conversation with purpose. 144 00:08:18,797 --> 00:08:19,963 Earlier in my career, 145 00:08:19,963 --> 00:08:22,463 I worked for the deputy prime minister of New Zealand 146 00:08:22,497 --> 00:08:24,830 who practiced a version of this technique. 147 00:08:25,530 --> 00:08:29,929 New Zealand's electoral system is designed for unlikely friendships, 148 00:08:29,963 --> 00:08:31,730 coalitions, alliances, 149 00:08:31,763 --> 00:08:34,829 memoranda of understanding are almost inevitable. 150 00:08:35,163 --> 00:08:39,797 And this particular government set-up had some of almost everything -- 151 00:08:39,830 --> 00:08:42,330 small government conservatives, liberals, 152 00:08:42,363 --> 00:08:44,963 the Indigenous people's party, the Green Party. 153 00:08:45,363 --> 00:08:46,597 And I recently asked him, 154 00:08:46,630 --> 00:08:50,130 what does it take to bring a group like that together 155 00:08:50,163 --> 00:08:52,463 but hold them together? 156 00:08:53,097 --> 00:08:58,063 He said, "Someone, you, has to take responsibility 157 00:08:58,097 --> 00:09:01,263 for reminding them of their shared purpose: 158 00:09:01,730 --> 00:09:03,230 caring for people.” 159 00:09:04,397 --> 00:09:09,697 If we are more focused on what makes us different than the same, 160 00:09:09,730 --> 00:09:12,697 then every debate is a fight. 161 00:09:13,063 --> 00:09:17,830 If we put our challenges and our problems before us, 162 00:09:17,863 --> 00:09:22,797 then every potential ally becomes an adversary. 163 00:09:23,497 --> 00:09:27,663 But as my dad packed his bags for the three flights, 25 hours, 164 00:09:27,663 --> 00:09:30,263 10,000 miles back to Australia, 165 00:09:30,297 --> 00:09:35,663 he was also packing a collection of new perspectives, 166 00:09:35,697 --> 00:09:39,430 a new way of navigating conversations, 167 00:09:39,430 --> 00:09:43,997 and a whole set of new stories and experiences to share. 168 00:09:44,463 --> 00:09:47,030 But he was also leaving those behind 169 00:09:47,063 --> 00:09:49,630 with everyone that he'd interacted with. 170 00:09:50,663 --> 00:09:55,197 We love unlikely friendships when they look like this. 171 00:09:55,630 --> 00:09:57,663 We've just forgotten how to make them. 172 00:09:58,030 --> 00:10:01,396 And amid the cacophony of cable news 173 00:10:01,430 --> 00:10:04,896 and the awkwardness of family dinners, 174 00:10:04,930 --> 00:10:08,463 and the hostility of corporate meetings, 175 00:10:08,497 --> 00:10:10,097 each of us has this -- 176 00:10:10,130 --> 00:10:13,630 the opportunity to walk into every encounter, 177 00:10:13,663 --> 00:10:15,997 like my dad walked off that plane, 178 00:10:15,997 --> 00:10:19,796 to choose curiosity over clash, 179 00:10:19,830 --> 00:10:24,230 to expect development of your ideas through discussion 180 00:10:24,263 --> 00:10:27,063 and to anchor in common purpose. 181 00:10:27,097 --> 00:10:30,163 That's what really world-class persuaders do 182 00:10:30,163 --> 00:10:32,897 to build constructive conversations 183 00:10:32,930 --> 00:10:34,697 and move them forward. 184 00:10:34,730 --> 00:10:37,463 It's how our world will move forward too. 185 00:10:37,463 --> 00:10:38,630 Thank you.