-
Kiersten Beigel: Good
afternoon, everybody.
-
This is Kiersten Beigel.
-
I'm with the Office of Head
Start, and I would love
-
to welcome you this afternoon
(or midday or morning,
-
as the case may be
for some of you).
-
I'm going to be your
moderator for this webinar,
-
"Father Engagement is
Everybody's Business",
-
and I am absolutely thrilled
to be able to do that.
-
We have a lot going on this week
at the Office of Head Start,
-
as you know since you
registered for this webinar.
-
This is part of a series
of resources/events
-
that are happening the
week before Father's Day,
-
and we're really excited to be able
-
to offer the field some new
resources to support the work
-
that we do in partnering with
fathers in our programs --
-
Head Start and Early
Head Start programs.
-
So, before we get
going I'm going to --
-
let's do a little tech talk here.
-
I wanted to remind you you
can use your computer speakers
-
to hear the webinar.
-
If you can't hear the presenters
you can, of course, always attempt
-
to turn on your computer speakers.
-
And if you're having
problems with your speakers,
-
or they're not working, you can --
-
we've got a phone number here
in the public chat that Natalie,
-
who's our webinar coordinator,
put up for everybody.
-
So, you can see that
in the public chat.
-
It's a number with a
dial in that you can call
-
in if you're having trouble.
-
I also wanted to direct you to Sam.
-
Sam has his own tab next
to the public-private tab.
-
There's a Sam tab.
-
And if you are having any trouble,
any kind of technical issues,
-
you can do some private chatting
with Sam and he'll help you out.
-
So, that's our tech talk.
-
I wanted to tell you that we
have a pretty interactive session
-
for you today.
-
We're really excited.
-
We have a pretty laid back group
of folks, who are very passionate
-
about their work with
fathers, to say the least.
-
And I think they're going to keep
it pretty conversational so this --
-
we may be doing a little
webinar free styling here,
-
a little different than
the usual style of webinar.
-
And they're also excited to get
to know a little bit about you.
-
We'll be doing some polling
questions, asking you to weigh in,
-
and they'll guide you
when it's time to do that.
-
So, now I would like to give
you a chance to hear from them.
-
They're going to introduce
themselves, and we'll start
-
with David who is in the
upper left hand corner here.
-
And if you guys could just tell
us who you are and a little bit
-
about your connection
with this work.
-
David Jones: Okay,
thank you Kiersten.
-
Welcome everyone.
-
I'm so excited that
you're all participating
-
with us on this webinar.
-
My name is David Jones.
-
I am the Fatherhood Specialist
here in the Office of Head Start.
-
I co-lead all of our fatherhood
efforts with Kiersten Beigel.
-
And I have about 15 to 20 years
-
of experience providing services
directly, indirectly for fathers,
-
individual work, group work,
you name it, within the context
-
of Early Head Start, Head Start,
-
and also as a consultant
to other programs.
-
So welcome.
-
John Hornstein: Okay,
I'm John Hornstein.
-
I'm on the upper right hand side,
the one with the glasses up there.
-
I'm delighted to be working with
David and Ed and Kiersten on this.
-
I work at the National
Center for Parent, Family,
-
and Community Engagement and
have been doing fatherhood work
-
for over 30 years.
-
And kind of backed into it
when -- at a time when --
-
I remember very distinctly the
first time I said to myself,
-
"I've got to do more about
this," was at a conference
-
when the keynote speaker
was asked, well,
-
what do you do with fathers then?
-
And the speaker said, "well,
-
nothing because they
don't show up."
-
So, that got me not laid back,
-
as Kiersten said,
but quite passionate.
-
So, I'll move onto Ed.
-
[Foreign Language]
-
Edwin Cheromiah: This is --
my name is Edwin Cheromiah,
-
and I just greeted you
-
in our Pueblo Laguna
language, the Keres language.
-
I was just wishing
everybody a good afternoon.
-
Also again, I've been with the
Pueblo Laguna Fatherhood Program
-
through the Laguna Head Start
for the past eight years.
-
Way back in 2004, these men -- a
few men got together and wanted
-
to have fathers more engaged.
-
So it went through
PFS first of all,
-
but then finally came
into Head Start.
-
That's where I've been,
-
that's where I was
hired for this position.
-
And I continue to offer
services for dads, you know,
-
resources to different programs
that we have here in Laguna,
-
and also offering
them just the support
-
that sometimes fathers
need to move forward.
-
And it's a pleasure
to be with you today.
-
Kiersten: So how we're really --
-
you might have heard
some of our muted voices.
-
We were really excited to see
folks rolling in, and we have well
-
over 1,000 people register for
this, which is very telling
-
about how interested people
are in father engagement.
-
So, today what we're going to
do is about an hour and a half.
-
And I'm going to monitoring chat.
-
So, as questions come up along the
way, we might stop and take some
-
of those, or I might
make some decisions
-
about holding those
towards the end.
-
But, what we're going to do is
reflect kind of on where we are now
-
and where we hope to go in
building supportive partnerships
-
with fathers, think a little bit
about sort of the movement --
-
of the fatherhood movement and how
things have evolved in Head Start
-
with regards to father engagement.
-
And we want to renew our enthusiasm
and commitment to this work.
-
We want to identify some ways
to build father engagement
-
that is systemic,
integrated and comprehensive,
-
and we'll talk more
about what that means.
-
And we hope to share some
new resources for you.
-
Some of the resources that
are coming out this week
-
that you may use to improve your
program practice with fathers.
-
So, without further ado,
I turn it over to David.
-
David: Hi, so we're going to begin
with our first polling question,
-
which is a two part question.
-
We want to get a feel for,
you know, the participants
-
on the call today, so we'd like
to ask that everyone participate.
-
So, Natalie can you please
go ahead and launch the poll?
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
David: And the first
question is, what is your role
-
within the Head Start program?
-
So, we'd like for everyone to
sort of take a moment and click
-
on the choice that best
fits the role that you have
-
in the program within
where you work.
-
If - obviously, if you're not
-
within a Head Start program you can
choose one of the other options.
-
We'll give you a few
seconds to do that.
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
David: And Natalie, I'm
not sure in terms of time,
-
but give them a couple more seconds
-
and then we can take
a look at the results.
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
David: Okay, can we see
results from the first question?
-
Wow, so it looks like about
26 percent of you are family
-
and community partnership staff,
-
11 percent are parent involvement
staff, and then just sort of mix
-
of sort of directors, sort
of leadership in the program.
-
We actually have some focused male
involvement staff, health staff.
-
So, this is great and this
sort of connects with the title
-
of this webinar, which
is, you know,
-
"Father Engagement is
Everybody's Business"
-
so this is really nice to see.
-
So, can we move now to
the next polling question?
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
David: Okay, it's going
to come up in a second.
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
David: So, what is your gender?
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
David: Take a few moments,
make your selection.
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
David: And the one
thing I want to say
-
about the previous
polling question is, again,
-
irrespective of your role
within the program, you know,
-
everyone can make a meaningful
contribution to working with,
-
supporting and engaging fathers.
-
John: Uh huh.
-
David: That's one of the
things that we really want
-
to underscore with today's webinar.
-
Okay, can we see the
results please, Natalie?
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
David: It takes a
couple of seconds.
-
>> David: Ah.
-
>> John: Wow.
-
>> John: You know that leaves a
certain percentage unaccounted for.
-
>> David: Yeah.
-
>> John: But still, the proportion
is pretty interesting isn't it?
-
>> David: It is.
-
It is and I mean this is
really important for us
-
because again we want to make
sure that we're being thoughtful
-
in terms of how we respond, how
we present and what we're saying.
-
We have a sense that you know
our programs are predominantly
-
populated by female staff,
but we just want to make sure
-
that we're being thoughtful and
sensitive to the entire audience.
-
So, thank you so much
for your participation.
-
Natalie, you can go ahead
and close that poll.
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
John: What it also says David
is the majority of conversations
-
with fathers are between
female staff and fathers.
-
David: That's right.
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: That's right.
-
And so, it speaks to and
underscores the importance of,
-
sort of, what happens when those
opportunities present themselves
-
in terms of what we do with them.
-
So, we're waiting
for the next slide.
-
And while we're waiting,
basically what we're going
-
to do moving forward is just
going to be really reflecting
-
on fatherhood and Head Start
and Early Head Start and sort
-
of talking a little bit about
the historical evolution
-
of the fatherhood
movement within Head Start.
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
David: Seems -- we may be having
a little technical difficulty.
-
John: I've -- David:
Do you see the slide?
-
John: Yeah, but I
clicked on the tab
-
at the top that'll put me
back to father engagement.
-
I did -- David: Okay.
-
So, I just did the same thing.
-
So, I mean there's a lot that we
can cover to address, you know,
-
why fatherhood evolved
in the way that it has.
-
You know, we can sort of
ask ourselves some questions
-
about the role the women played.
-
And let me say that women have been
exceptional in their understanding
-
and support of the movement
to support father engagement.
-
And I think were it not for their
initial insight and their fortitude
-
and support, I'm not
certain we would have evolved
-
to where we have today.
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: You know, they
had to allow men in.
-
John: Right.
-
David: And then what about the men?
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: I think they had to
dare to be different and step
-
out of their comfort zone, but what
is important is involving fathers.
-
Initially, we got to a place
where in the awareness stage what
-
that meant was that we were not
only asking more from fathers,
-
but we were also asking more
from programs and from staff.
-
So, that means everybody had to
be a little bit different in terms
-
of the way that they were
working and what they did.
-
In the second stage, the
acknowledging stage, you know,
-
programs -- we began to believe
that programs needed sort
-
of an adjunct or separate services
for fathers in order for them
-
to be effective, in order
for them to meaningful.
-
And I think at the
time, John and Ed
-
if you agree, that was appropriate.
-
John: Sure.
-
David: Until we began
to see what happened
-
when the father involvement
staff left the organization.
-
You know sometimes the -- all
the great effort, the great work
-
that had gone into producing
this program sort of went
-
out the door with that individual.
-
So, we've evolved now in our
thinking to not only expect
-
that staff build relationships with
fathers and that fathers engage.
-
We are suggesting that fully
integrating services for fathers
-
as a component of overall
services is not only appropriate,
-
but it can contribute to
sustainable service provision
-
when we make fatherhood
everybody's business.
-
John: Uh huh.
-
David: And it's important to note
-
that initially you know
some fathers were hesitant,
-
almost reluctant, for
very valid reasons.
-
You know there were some cultural
reasons for their distance
-
from educational programs as well
as some of the systemic stuff
-
that we're all aware of.
-
But, in some cases we have fathers
-
who have received incredible
support and guidance
-
from their own fathers, and
they drew from that experience,
-
and it was easy to really work
with them and talk to them
-
about what was important
for them as fathers.
-
And then we had the other end
of the spectrum with fathers
-
that did not have that
experience that were committed
-
to doing something
different for their children
-
than what they received.
-
John, would you like
to say -- John: Yeah.
-
David: Anything about the
connections and opportunities
-
for connections at the
different developmental stages?
-
John: Yeah sure.
-
I mean I think this is a great
kind of reflection on the history.
-
And I -- the other day I
was wondering, you know,
-
what did fathers themselves
have to do with this change?
-
And I think fathers themselves
are expecting more of programs
-
because society as
a whole has changed.
-
But, I think, one of the
things about expectations is
-
that it may feel really different
at different ages, what --
-
the kind of connection
you can make with a father
-
when he brings an
infant to a program,
-
or when you do a home
visit, is quite different
-
than that father whose thinking
-
of their four year
old as a ball player.
-
So, I think there is a lot of
complexity to this process.
-
But I also think that this
idea that somehow everybody --
-
that full engagement means really
thinking about every aspect
-
of the program as being something
that fathers are involved with
-
and that it's not a
distinct and separate thing.
-
I think that's an important thing.
-
At the same time there may be
some things that are distinctly
-
for fathers, and those
shouldn't end necessarily.
-
David: That's a really good point.
-
>> Yeah. David: So, as we
consider what we mean or, sort of,
-
what we're thinking about when we
talk about moving from involvement
-
to engagement, as you
can see from this slide.
-
You know a lot of times, in
my experience sort of being
-
in a program, sort of leading
the evolution of a program
-
that became more father friendly,
consulting with other programs
-
that were beginning or attempting
to start fatherhood initiatives.
-
Programs tend to gravitate
to do what comes easy
-
or what satisfies program's goals
-
of actually having
a fathers' event.
-
And that's not to say that
these events are not meaningful
-
and they don't provide
opportunities for connectedness,
-
but tying the event to a process
-
that facilitates ongoing
opportunities for connectedness
-
and relationship building is
the key with the goal in mind
-
of learning about how you
know fathers think and feel
-
about their role as parents
and what's important to them
-
in relationship to their
child's development.
-
You know, we are at a place where
we want staff to extend themselves
-
and seek opportunities to connect.
-
There's so many routines
and complimentary supports
-
within Head Start that provide
opportunities to connect
-
with fathers that can result
in systemic, integrated
-
and comprehensive services,
as shown on this slide.
-
You know, we encourage you to dig
-
into the resources that's
being released this week
-
and begin assessing your programs'
current services, the intersections
-
and or opportunities for
connections with fathers, you know,
-
at times of pickup and drop off.
-
You know, if families transition
-
and then I know there's
this process where a lot
-
of families transition into Head
Start or Early Head Start initially
-
in home-based and they move
-
into a center-based
option if that available.
-
There's a significant change in
the amount of time that you have
-
to communicate with families when
they're in home-based juxtaposed
-
to center-based during
pickup and drop off.
-
So, staff have to be really
crafty about seizing the moments
-
and taking advantage
of those opportunities
-
to communicate with families.
-
John: Can you go back?
-
David: Sure.
-
John: Is it possible to go back?
-
David: Of course.
-
John: Because I want to put
an X right there, alright.
-
David: Okay.
-
John: And there's some interesting
research on mothers and fathers
-
when they drop off
kids at childcare.
-
And one of things they've found is
that after a problem, I'm sure many
-
of you have seen situations
where the child kind
-
of has a hard time transitioning
in and cries and both the parent
-
and the child have difficulty.
-
So, in this research they called
up both mothers and fathers
-
like 10 minutes or so after
they dropped the child off
-
and what they found was that
when it was a problematic one,
-
when it was a separation
issue, both mothers
-
and fathers were still upset.
-
They were still really concerned.
-
The difference was, was that the
mothers typically had somebody
-
to talk to about it
and the fathers didn't.
-
So, you know, what David said
about these particular times
-
to make a connection,
that time when the,
-
with the difficult drop off,
that may be a great time
-
to build a connection
with a father.
-
Now, you can move the slide.
-
David: Make a point.
-
John: I just wanted to use the
X. David: This is yours, John.
-
John: Okay, yeah.
-
So, and this kind of gets
to what I was talking about,
-
is these barriers to involvement
and engagement are different.
-
So, involvement is, like,
what's getting in the way as far
-
as just a physical thing, you know?
-
Is it transportation?
-
Is it ability to make
it to the program?
-
It's all kinds of these almost
physical kind of barriers,
-
whereas the barriers to true
engagement, to a true partnership
-
with fathers is really
more internal.
-
It's more, what am I bringing
to these relationships?
-
What do I believe that
the father believes
-
about the program or
about child rearing?
-
So, it's more this internal
stuff that's in the way
-
of fully engaging with fathers.
-
And so, when we get to
professional development,
-
that's what we're going
to want to think about.
-
So, you know, what is in
the way of a father walking
-
across the threshold into a
program or actually participating
-
in a meeting when there's an issue?
-
So, I think that we're moving
to thinking in a deeper way
-
about how we form
these partnerships.
-
So, yeah, so now we can
move to the research.
-
David: Well John, before we move
-
to the research slide
-- John: Yeah, yeah.
-
David: I would just like to
add a little conversation
-
about this last bullet.
-
John: Okay.
-
Oh, you're using the star.
-
I see. David: Getting fancy here.
-
You know this is where a lot of
the work really happens with staff
-
as it relates to professional
development when we start
-
to think about the barriers.
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: I think it's important
for us to really acknowledge
-
and accept the fact
that it is difficult
-
and that it may take
time and effort.
-
You know in the fatherhood
resource that we're releasing today
-
on the ECLKC on page 22
there's really nice quotes
-
from a staff member that speaks to
her beliefs about the father's role
-
and who she felt she should be
talking to about child development.
-
And how with good staff
training, peer support
-
and supervision she was able to
change her belief system and begin
-
to look at other personal
and professional biases
-
that were affecting
her work with fathers.
-
John: Yeah, yeah.
-
That's -- David: I think that's
just a really important point
-
to make that we know that this
work there's some complex issues.
-
And moving from one place
-
to the next will take some
time, energy and effort.
-
John: Yeah.
-
And David, so much of that
stuff thus sets the beliefs
-
about what my role as a parent
or my role in communicating
-
to a parent about which
issues is pretty deep stuff.
-
We're not necessarily
conscious of it.
-
We just do it.
-
David: Right.
-
John: It's something that's
culturally formed in us.
-
And so, I think some of it
is just acknowledging that
-
and bringing it to the surface.
-
So, yeah it's a really good point.
-
David: And the trust that
has to be involved in terms
-
of the relationship with your
supervisor to get to a place
-
where you're actually beginning to
wrestle with some of those issues.
-
John: Exactly, yeah.
-
David: Okay.
-
John: Okay, so the research says a
lot and to try to put the research
-
on fatherhood on one
slide is very difficult.
-
And before I get into
this, I'd like to say
-
that this might feel
a little offensive
-
to some people, and that's okay.
-
But, part of it is that
this doesn't say anything
-
about women really.
-
And when I say well, fathers
make important contributions
-
to children's development.
-
Well that doesn't mean that mothers
don't make the same contributions,
-
or that mothers in some cases
make the same contributions
-
that fathers do, or some
fathers that mothers do.
-
So, I think this you know it's
not as like you know one --
-
two sided as it may seem.
-
So, I just want to you know
make that disclaimer first
-
because I think this can start
feeling like oh, dads do this
-
and mothers do this when,
in fact, it gets mixed
-
up a lot more than we might think.
-
The first bullet is
men are fully capable
-
of nurturing young children.
-
We know that.
-
We know that throughout history.
-
Men have nurtured young children.
-
In some societies men play a
larger role in the nurturance.
-
In many societies that's
changing, but men's brains respond
-
to a babies cry the same
way women's brains do.
-
The same parts of the brain get
activated when they hear a cry.
-
Society has helped them figure out
what to do when they hear that cry,
-
but the neurological
phenomenon is the same.
-
Men naturally raise their
voices to a higher pitch
-
when they're talking to infants.
-
Of course, if you ask them
whether they are they might say
-
"no, I'm not doing that".
-
But, then they go "ooh
yeah, [inaudible]".
-
So, you know there are things
that men are very capable
-
of nurturing young children.
-
Another point on this one is that
men tend to look more nurturant
-
with young children when
there aren't women there.
-
That when there's not, and I would
attribute it to well, you know,
-
there's some role definition
going on here and I'm going
-
to you know play this role.
-
But, we find in general that
when there aren't women near,
-
men show more nurturance.
-
The second bullet, and this
could go on and on and on,
-
and some of this material is in
the guide that David referred to,
-
fathers make important
varied contributions
-
to children's development,
regulation and self-control.
-
There -- the way they play with
young children causes children
-
to actually control their
impulses a little more
-
or know what the limits
of that are.
-
We -- you know there's this
discussion of fathers tend
-
to play more roughly
with their children,
-
and sometimes mothers get a
little nervous about that,
-
or even Head Start staff get
a little nervous about that.
-
And certainly we don't want
that to go too far and --
-
but at the same time a
certain amount of that is --
-
helps the child gain
self-regulation.
-
Language development, well men
tend to make children work harder
-
when they say something.
-
And the classic example is when the
toddler goes to the refrigerator
-
and goes "ju", like that, the
mother opens up the refrigerator,
-
gets a cup and pours juice
whereas the father goes "what?"
-
And then the child goes "juice".
-
And the father goes "oh,
you want some juice".
-
And so, like I said
that's in general.
-
Some mothers are going to be
more like fathers that way,
-
some fathers more like
mothers, but in general kids
-
in the toddler period anyway have
to work harder with their language.
-
Same is true for cognitive
and emotional development.
-
Fathers have a distinct
impact on that.
-
That active play with
fathers, nurturant play,
-
actually supports cognitive
and emotional development
-
and there's pretty strong
research evidence to support that.
-
It, the -- in fact, the
relationship between,
-
this is a different piece of
research, but the relationship
-
between a father and a child
is not necessarily measured
-
by whether the child goes
to the father for security.
-
Certainly in good
relationships that happens.
-
But, a better measure, better
predictor of the relationship
-
between a father and a child
is how they play together.
-
So, that's something that
we want to encourage.
-
And then the final bullet is well,
-
it's good for a lot
of other things too.
-
When fathers are involved, when
other men are involved in the lives
-
of mother's children, then
mothers can be better mothers.
-
They can mother more
effectively and some
-
of that is economic, of course.
-
Some of it is, as with any of
us when we've got the support
-
of another person, we
can do our jobs better.
-
Fathers themselves report
that when they're involved
-
with their children, when they're
engaged with their children,
-
they feel better about themselves.
-
And that's almost self-explanatory
and then society as a whole,
-
people that are engaged in
fathering and men who are engaged
-
in fathering engage in less crime.
-
They're more productive
members of society
-
and there's a number of outcomes.
-
So, that's a lot of the research
in a nutshell and I don't think
-
that most people on this call need
to be convinced of this in any way.
-
But, it's nice to have some of
these ideas so that we can kind
-
of deepen our understanding of
what the effect of fathers is
-
and what the effect of being
involved in children's lives
-
and their programs is on fathers.
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
John: Oh. Yeah go
ahead David, yeah.
-
David: So, with this particular
slide what we kind of wanted
-
to do was to have our participants
that have engaged in a little bit
-
of interactive exercise.
-
Sort of, if you can,
if you're willing,
-
take a look at this picture and
then just type into the chat sort
-
of what you see in this picture.
-
We just kind of want to get a
feel for sort of is there anything
-
that strikes you as you're looking
at this father and this child?
-
So, if you could take a
moment to type into it.
-
I think we're going to
use the public chat.
-
So, type into the chat
your sort of reactions
-
when you see this picture.
-
So, we'll take a few
minutes to have you do that.
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
David: John, is there anything else
you wanted to say while they're --
-
while we're waiting for
someone maybe to type a --
-
John: Well, the picture
is so compelling.
-
I hate to distract people.
-
But, I would -- if anything I've
said about the research was --
-
struck you as gee I don't really --
I'd like to hear more about that,
-
I would direct people to the
guide because there's a section
-
of the guide that kind of
summarizes the research on fathers,
-
in particular the contribution they
make to children's development.
-
David: Okay, well it doesn't look
like we have any brave souls.
-
Oh, whoa here we go.
-
John: Okay.
-
David: There is -- thank you
so much Lada, a dear friend
-
of mine, former colleague.
-
Well, hopefully she still
considers herself a colleague.
-
John: She's -- she felt sorry felt
for you and had to write something.
-
David: I know, right.
-
She sees a picture of the
loving father with his child.
-
John: Uh huh.
-
David: Very interesting.
-
Now, is there anyone else out
there that sees something similar
-
or something different
that would be willing
-
to share it with the group?
-
We need one brave soul.
-
Sam Gourlay: Actually this is
Sam Gourlay [assumed spelling].
-
Unfortunately, we're having
a little bit of an issue
-
with public chat right now.
-
So, there are a lot of people that
are airing wonderful comments,
-
but they're unable to get them
into the public chat area.
-
I apologize for this.
-
John: Okay.
-
David: Can you see them, Sam?
-
Can you see them?
-
Sam: Yeah.
-
I'm going to try to relate
them through the private chat.
-
Thanking everyone for
directing them to me.
-
I'll try to push them in.
-
David: Awesome, thank you.
-
John: Great, great.
-
Well maybe we can come back to
that and move on with the slides.
-
You want to do that David or?
-
David: Yeah, that works.
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: So, in this slide it's
going to be an opportunity for Ed,
-
John and myself to kind
of weigh in a little bit.
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: I particularly like this
slide because it is illustrative
-
of our expanding definition
of the father's role.
-
We've completely moved away
from men thinking of themselves
-
as solely financial providers.
-
Each of these roles
have specific meanings
-
to fathers given their past
experiences, where they are
-
in their current lives,
where they are going
-
and of course their maturity level.
-
And I'll just start with
one of them and give John
-
and Ed an opportunity to chime in.
-
Advocating, you know, to me,
advocating is what should you learn
-
that you're an advocate
for your child.
-
It's one of those now and
forever roles, so John.
-
John: Yeah, you know it's
funny, David, when you picked
-
on the advocate role because
you immediately brought me back
-
to when my daughter
was born and she was
-
in the neonatal intensive
care unit.
-
And my job as a father at
that time was to advocate
-
for the wellbeing of my child.
-
You know it was to deal
with this healthcare system
-
that I didn't understand
and was really angry at.
-
And so, you know there's that,
there was the nurturer part
-
of that, the protector part
of that, but there was also,
-
like I had to advocate
for my child.
-
I had to know something, and
so I appreciate you starting
-
with that one.
-
The one that I pick up on
is this friend-playmate
-
because that's a very complex one.
-
You know we tell fathers "well,
-
if you want to be the
disciplinarian you can't be your
-
child's friend.
-
You got to be the father.
-
You got to be the discipline, the
person that provides discipline."
-
At the same time, you know, there's
a slash playmate and we know
-
that in the relationships
between fathers
-
and their children is often
a very playful relationship
-
in that the child, as early
childhood people we know,
-
the child learns through
the process of play.
-
So, I think that that one is,
that one's got a lot of complexity
-
to it, but it's one that we know
kind of fathers connect with.
-
So, that's my two
cents on that one.
-
David: Awesome, Ed.
-
Edwin: Yeah I'm here.
-
I would -- we had just
talked about this earlier,
-
and I was just talking to
one of the fathers here that,
-
or actually a grandfather,
about some of these things.
-
And we -- you know, a lot of
it has to deal with for us,
-
from a native side,
is our core values.
-
You know, again, you know,
building strength on the --
-
where we incorporate culture,
ceremony, traditions and healing
-
and of course humor is a big
part of you know native men
-
and of course all men in general.
-
And that -- we are
hoping that was going --
-
some of the teaching that we do
through spiritual guidance is
-
that it help us, you know, increase
and strengthen family preservation.
-
And that's what we're all kind
of looking for is offering
-
that family preservation and
for our children to continue
-
to offer those teachings as
they become parents later on,
-
role modeling some of
those things especially.
-
Again, you know a lot of
it is creating a safe place
-
for men you know to come and
talk about these types of things.
-
And a lot of it sometimes
doesn't always take place
-
in a [Inaudible] setting, but
a lot of it also takes part
-
at our fatherhood
program here at Laguna.
-
Again, it's again all about
strengthening, you know,
-
family relationships,
family involvement
-
and just being a responsible father
-
that again goes back
to the preservation.
-
David: Okay.
-
Edwin: You know those are just some
of the things that we had talked
-
about earlier, so -- John: Yeah.
-
The other day, Ed, you also said
something about how in Laguna
-
that the -- that men transmit
certain things culturally
-
to the kids as the
educator in a sense.
-
Edwin: Right, right and that's -- a
lot of the cultural teachings come
-
in from the [inaudible] side.
-
It also includes planting because
the planting doesn't only include
-
just planting of a seed in
the ground, but it also --
-
there's a cultural teaching behind
-
that where you're planting
other knowledge into a child
-
and you know planting
those important roles
-
that they will be facing
as they become adults.
-
So, those are some of the things
that growing and nurturing
-
of those particular things.
-
John: Wow, right.
-
David: You know, and John I
was thinking a little bit too
-
about what you said you
know with your daughter.
-
And I think one of the things
that we don't always acknowledge
-
or allow ourselves
to sort of appreciate
-
in men is they are afraid,
that they're scared.
-
They're scared of embracing
the fatherhood role.
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: Embracing sort of the
expanding definition of their role,
-
and also afraid of
negotiating systems.
-
I can't even imagine what it must
be, feel like to have a daughter
-
in a neonatal intensive
care unit and have
-
to negotiate you know
all these professionals.
-
And we, you know, as humans we
tend to rely on professionals
-
to make important decisions
that impact our lives for us
-
because we trust that they
have a particular expertise.
-
So, I think that as we continue
to expand our understanding
-
of how we need to be thinking about
working with fathers it's okay,
-
it's important for us to realize
rather that they do become afraid.
-
They are challenged by
fulfilling all the multiple roles
-
that we're asking them to fulfill
and that these fears are very real
-
for them, and they have to
acknowledged and supported.
-
John: Yeah that's great David.
-
I mean you're right on.
-
And I think that of course when
you're talking about fear in men
-
and society you know we
don't like to show it.
-
David: Right.
-
John: Right, we don't
necessarily like to show our fears,
-
but probably if you
ask most men who happen
-
to be fathers too what their
greatest fear is they're not going
-
to say their own safety.
-
They're going to say
fear for their child.
-
David: Right.
-
John: Which is probably
very in common with women.
-
But, its -- and, but do men
actually reveal their fears
-
in the same way?
-
Do they talk about them?
-
And I think that's real
[Inaudible] when you --
-
when a father actually will
say, you know, that I'm afraid
-
that my child isn't going
to succeed in school,
-
or my child isn't going
to be accepted by peers,
-
or whatever the issue is, then
you're dealing with a passion
-
that makes him a father.
-
Then you're nurturing the
nurturer when you can listen
-
to that and support that man.
-
But, if you're at the place
where a father is sharing some
-
of those fears with you in a way
that's comfortable then I think
-
you've made real progress
in your relationship
-
with that father, for sure.
-
David: That is a really
important point.
-
Alright, so I think
we had a few comments.
-
We're going to move back
really quickly -- John: Okay.
-
David: To the previous slide.
-
And I just want to share
what's interesting --
-
Lada sort of kicked this off
and she's obviously female.
-
But, then we had three men
comment and the comments were:
-
wanting to stay connected; a
father wanting to stay connected
-
to his child; the importance of the
skin to skin contact between father
-
and child; and a man
showing gentle love and care.
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: All very positive,
which is great.
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: So, I think we've
done a good job of sort
-
of getting people
excited and getting them
-
to celebrate what we're doing
-
and having them feel really
positively about fatherhood.
-
When Kiersten and I recently showed
this slide and sort of used it
-
as part of our presentation
-
in the Leadership Institute there
was some different perceptions
-
that came from a predominately
female audience,
-
which was really interesting.
-
For the most part participants
were supportive and they were able
-
to actually look at the
strength in the picture.
-
But, then some of the participants
seemed like the father looked
-
like he was uncomfortable.
-
He didn't really know
what he was doing.
-
The baby's face looks like
it's a little crunched
-
up in between his shoulder.
-
The baby looked uncomfortable.
-
I mean they took it to some
really interesting places
-
and it was almost as if they
wanted to take the baby out of
-
that father's hands, which
was really interesting to us.
-
And a question for -- from
us to the group would be,
-
how would you help this
father build upon what we see
-
in the photo that is a strength?
-
And if there are some things that
now that you're looking at it
-
from a different lens that you
would want to sort of change
-
or provide some support
and guidance around.
-
What might be the first thing
that you would say to this guy?
-
That's rhetorical.
-
I'm not expecting you to answer.
-
But, John you want to weigh in?
-
John: Yeah, I think -- I
mean any picture of a man
-
or a woman holding a child
evokes a pretty strong kind
-
of just below the
surface responses.
-
And I mean you see a baby and
you want to hold the baby.
-
I see babies in supermarkets, and
I try to steal them all the time.
-
I mean it's like it's
-- there is a response.
-
There's a very -- and I
guess if you had a response
-
and you didn't even put it down on
paper, or the computer I guess now,
-
is oh -- I would try to understand
-
that response before
doing anything, you know,
-
or as you're doing something.
-
But, certainly I like,
David, what you're saying,
-
so yea there's plenty that you can
see in this picture to work from.
-
And yeah, I -- actually
I immediately go
-
to what you're asking.
-
It's like well, how would you
start making a relationship
-
with his father based on
what you see right here?
-
>> Uh huh.
-
>> Yeah. David: And, you know,
-
I mean it's like just really
simple basic questions that's going
-
to give you some insight
into where this father is at.
-
What's important to him?
-
How he might be thinking
in that moment?
-
You know, how does
this feel for you?
-
What are you thinking when you hold
your child so close in this way?
-
Is there a particular reason
why you hold him that way
-
because it could be cultural?
-
But, those are points,
questions that will then begin
-
to generate some really significant
conversations with that father.
-
John: Yeah, yeah, great.
-
David: So, we're going
to move and John
-
as you -- John: Oh, look at this.
-
Look at this.
-
That's good.
-
I've seen this before.
-
This is the Parent, Family, and
Community Engagement Framework,
-
and I assume that many of you
-
on the webinar have seen
this very colorful graphic.
-
I think it's -- I actually
really like this Framework.
-
I think it puts together
exactly what it says that parent
-
and family engagement,
and you could --
-
instead of parent and
family, you could put father
-
in there, not without family.
-
Not without the parent,
but you could put father
-
and it would all still apply.
-
So, when father engagements
are systematic and integrated
-
across program foundations
and impact areas,
-
family outcomes are achieved.
-
So, and then hence you're
working on child outcomes.
-
But, this progression
is interesting.
-
And I almost like
to think of this as,
-
so the program foundations
they're like the nervous system.
-
They're the brain.
-
They're the thing that sends
messages to the whole body, right?
-
So, the program leadership is
like yes, we believe in it.
-
My brain believes in
father engagement.
-
I actually reflect on my own
relationship with my father,
-
and I want to make it a
priority for this program
-
and these are the ways I'm
going to support everybody.
-
And that -- part of the
point here is that everybody
-
in the system is engaging
with fathers,
-
the same for continuous improvement
and professional development.
-
They're kind of like --
these are the things,
-
these are the foundations.
-
These are what makes
a whole system work.
-
Kind of see the program
environment that --
-
the impact areas as
kind of the muscles
-
and the organs of
the organism, right?
-
You know, these are things
that get things done.
-
The partnerships with
families, with fathers are
-
where we get things done.
-
The teaching and learning, the
partnerships with other agencies
-
and certainly creating
a welcoming environment
-
for fathers is a large
piece of what we need
-
to do to send that message.
-
But, if you notice along
the top, the arrow, positive
-
and goal oriented relationships.
-
Well, I see that as the
blood in the system.
-
That's the circulatory system.
-
That's what keeps everything
refreshed and going.
-
Maybe the metaphor
doesn't work that well.
-
I don't know.
-
But, the -- I don't want to
neglect that arrow at the top
-
because for all these pieces
to work together, for this body
-
to work together, we've got to
reflect on our relationships
-
with men who have their
children in our program.
-
That we have to keep
that blood flowing
-
by constantly giving it
oxygen, by refreshing it,
-
and that is through
our relationships
-
with these fathers whether
it's at the drop off,
-
whether it's in -- at a picnic.
-
Whether it's sending a
document home or calling home.
-
Whether -- you know
in so many ways --
-
Ed did you want to say something?
-
Was that -- I just
heard somebody's voice.
-
Okay, so-- Edwin: No John
I was muted there, sorry.
-
John: Okay.
-
So, in any case, I think in
every one of these elements
-
and the outcomes you can
see specific kind of things
-
that we can do with fathers, family
wellbeing as an outcome area.
-
Well, one of the things that
I think I've seen in programs
-
that do very well with fathers
is that they acknowledge
-
that these men also need to
feel good as men in our society
-
if they're going to do
a good job as fathers.
-
So, and we talked about this the
other day when we were planning
-
that this is an important
piece too.
-
It doesn't just mean that we
scrutinize fathers and expect them
-
to be nurturant and play
with their children.
-
But, we also want
them to be supported
-
in who they are themselves and
how they feel about themselves
-
as competent human
beings in this society.
-
So -- Edwin: So -- John:
Yeah, go ahead Ed, yeah.
-
Edwin: Yeah, again just talking
about the program leadership,
-
the continuous program improve --
-
all the things that
you have up there.
-
I think that's where we're at right
now with supporting the fathers
-
in those things because, you
know, again, the more you're --
-
again it goes back into our core
values of what we just talked
-
about the strengths, to build
upon those strengths too
-
for family preservation.
-
Right now within our
process, again,
-
since we've had this
fatherhood initiative,
-
but we've had some challenges,
but still yet we're --
-
I think the most important
thing is to try to make sure
-
that we encourage fathers to
come in and be a part of their --
-
the whole cycle for the educational
piece, school readiness.
-
John: Uh huh.
-
Edwin: You know, again,
we do that through --
-
we have a lot of dads now
that are coming to program,
-
I don't know what they have to
do with the fatherhood program,
-
but I think it's just making
more making the men feel more
-
comfortable and setting -- by
setting goals that they're able
-
to you know come up with the
family priority goal worksheet
-
screening tools.
-
And again, very involved
in ISSP or IEPs, you know?
-
Involving parents in those
things make them comfortable
-
and help them engage, I guess,
-
more so in their child's
readiness for school.
-
So, I just wanted
to interject that.
-
John: Yeah, that's great Ed.
-
When I was out in Laguna this
last year we were looking
-
at the transition
to school and you --
-
there was an event in which
the kindergarten teachers came
-
to the program and each was
in a different classroom
-
because there's a number
of elementary schools.
-
And what was -- one of the
things that was really striking
-
about that was I think there were
just as many men there as women.
-
I could be wrong.
-
You know, I could be
primed to look for that,
-
but I felt that there were a lot
of men engaged, just as engaged,
-
having just as many conversations
with these kindergarten teachers.
-
And it was great to
see, but it was --
-
I mean you didn't
have to look for it.
-
It was there.
-
It seemed very equitable.
-
David: Okay.
-
So, John we need to move on to the
-- John: Okay, sorry, yeah, yeah.
-
David: That's okay.
-
John: So, a polling question.
-
David: Uh huh.
-
John: Okay.
-
I need to see it.
-
Let's see.
-
David Jones: And yeah,
Natalie's going to load it.
-
John: Okay.
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
John: Right.
-
When thinking about
-- David: Hey John --
-
John: Do you want me to read it?
-
David: Yes, yes.
-
John: Yeah, yeah.
-
When thinking about father
engagement that is systemic,
-
integrated and comprehensive I
would say our program is beginning,
-
progressing, thriving
and innovating, or stuck.
-
And go ahead and answer
the question.
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
David: So, can we see the results?
-
John: Oh, there they
are just as you asked.
-
Isn't that interesting?
-
David: Um hmm hmm.
-
John: What's that mean
David, that umm hmm hmm?
-
But, 29 percent progressing,
that's great.
-
David: That is really great.
-
John: Yeah, yeah.
-
David: And we have five percent
that are thriving and innovating.
-
John: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
-
David: What's going to be really
important post this webinar is
-
that any of you out there who feel
-
that you are stuck please do
not hesitate to reach out to us.
-
If there's any way that we're going
to be able to provide some support
-
and guidance for you that is one
-
of the main reasons why
we're doing this webinar.
-
For those of you that
are beginning, kudos.
-
We hope that you're moving forward
in a really nice way and, you know,
-
you move onto a place
where you're progressing
-
and you're thriving and innovating.
-
But again, for all of you at
any stage of your evolution,
-
if there's some way in which we can
be supportive once you've looked
-
in at the resources that
we're launching this week
-
and you have questions about
them please reach out to us.
-
That's why we're here.
-
Natalie, thank you.
-
John. John: Yeah, I
actually mentioned some
-
of these things earlier that the
foundations are essential here,
-
and I think the question that
we just looked at is basically
-
about continuous improvement.
-
So, where are you in
relation to engaging fathers?
-
I mentioned that there's a lot
that can be done in the leadership
-
of a program to support.
-
I mean, if we go back to the
framework, we're thinking
-
of a systemic and integrated thing.
-
Well, that whole idea of a
dynamic system, an organization
-
as a system, the leadership within
the system needs to be fully behind
-
that and engage with that.
-
So, that's an important
component of it.
-
My experience with this
is that often the programs
-
that are thriving in relation
to this -- well first of all,
-
they almost always say --
-
the leadership almost always
says we still have a ways to go.
-
But then, I also find that there
really is a personal commitment
-
on the part of the director or the
manager toward work with fathers.
-
And I'm not saying everybody
has to make that their sole
-
and primary mission,
but I think that when --
-
what I found is that there's
often for the programs
-
that are thriving a real passion
in the leadership for this.
-
The continuous improvement,
going back to that, is --
-
this is part of this whole
idea of having a framework
-
and having a webinar like
this and having the guide is
-
that we can be intentional
about what we do.
-
We may feel that we're doing
very good work with fathers,
-
but when you're doing it in a
systemic way and an integrated
-
and comprehensive way that means
you're doing it intentionally
-
as well.
-
And so, that's when -- so yeah,
where were we five years ago?
-
Where are we now?
-
And where are we going?
-
What steps do we need
to take to get there?
-
David: Awesome.
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: So, this next
slide sort of builds upon
-
and expands upon the last
part of that previous slide,
-
the sort of professional
development piece.
-
Not to negate, sort of, the men
in the audience or in the rooms,
-
but I want to speak sort of
directly to the women in the room.
-
And then, before I continue,
remember I was the one
-
who said how instrumental
women have been in contributing
-
to the success of the
fatherhood movement.
-
So, now you know I'm getting
ready to be a little --
-
John: Yeah, but --
-
David: Professional
development is so tricky.
-
I can't tell you.
-
I've spent so much time, energy
and effort as a director,
-
supporting directors,
supporting programs around getting
-
to this piece of, if you're
really going to do this work
-
in a way that's systemic,
integrated and comprehensive,
-
it begins with the leadership
understanding that there has
-
to be this continuous
improvement process.
-
But it is grounded and it begins
with professional development.
-
So, this can be a really hard
conversation to have in programs
-
because I've never met a successful
fatherhood program that had a one
-
and done staff development
that prepared the staff
-
to adequately work with fathers.
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: In my experience when
staff have been trained and are
-
on board it is synonymous
with being involved
-
in the process of
supporting fathers.
-
Very basic, show up
and we can dance.
-
But, when they are on board
or willing to grow to do
-
that self-assessment
and wrestle with some
-
of their own more deep seeded
issues and/or challenges,
-
they are now engaged in the
process of engaging fathers.
-
You know, just like we have
to help men get to a place
-
where they were healthy enough
to confront their challenges,
-
we have to also help female
staff be healthy enough to know
-
when they require
additional supports.
-
And this slide sort of speaks to
my belief based upon my experience,
-
there's no research connected to
this, that when staff have sort
-
of said, "okay we're on board with
working with expanding services
-
for fathers and supporting
and engaging fathers,"
-
that they will engage in
conversations with them
-
that takes them a little bit
outside of their comfort zone.
-
Those conversations are going
to be extremely child-focused.
-
They'll be very specific.
-
They're going to be so self-aware
of how they're communicating
-
and what they're communicating.
-
So they're clinging to those
boundaries at an optimal distance.
-
Those anchors are really, really
important, but once they move
-
to a place where they're a little
bit more engaged and again,
-
they're doing the self-assessment,
they're wrestling with some
-
of their own deep seeded issues
and supervision or in therapy
-
if necessary, whatever
the case may be,
-
then they're a lot more comfortable
in terms of how they sort
-
of approach these
conversations with fathers.
-
John. John: Okay.
-
David: Was that you who put the X?
-
John: You bet.
-
David: Oh, okay.
-
John: But, I'll wait till
the elephant slide comes up.
-
David: Okay.
-
John: So, let's -- do
you want to move to?
-
-- yeah David: Yeah.
-
John: So we've got
a polling question.
-
David: We have another polling
question for you, because we want
-
to try to keep this interactive.
-
And I know that once we do
something that's a little bit
-
provocative we might
get more responses.
-
So, Natalie, please
launch the first question.
-
I'll go ahead and read it
as she -- oh there it is.
-
How comfortable are you in
building partnerships with fathers?
-
I am very comfortable.
-
I am mostly comfortable.
-
I am somewhat comfortable.
-
I am uncomfortable.
-
I am very uncomfortable.
-
So, this is sort of a way that
you can sort of privately weigh in
-
and chime in now on where you're
at with respect to this question.
-
We'll give you a couple
seconds for you to do that.
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
John: Somebody's whispering.
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
David: We have a lot of
people, so we're going
-
to give you guys a
little bit more time.
-
John: Ah, there it is.
-
David: Thank you so
much for calling in.
-
We have results?
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: So, it's taking my system a
little bit longer for them to show.
-
John, can you speak to them?
-
John: Yeah, yeah.
-
23 percent of the people
-
on the call are saying
they're very comfortable,
-
20 percent I am mostly
comfortable, 10 percent somewhat,
-
1 percent I am uncomfortable, and
zero said I'm very uncomfortable.
-
So, what this is that people
seem to be in a pretty good place
-
with building partnerships
with fathers for the most part.
-
I think that, yeah, really the
large majority are going I am
-
mostly comfortable or above.
-
And I think that's great.
-
That's great.
-
Now, being comfortable
and engaging --
-
certainly the comfort level is
important to genuine engagement.
-
But, as I said before,
it's not just comfort,
-
its intentional things
that we do to do that.
-
But -- David: Exactly.
-
And so, let's move to the second
part of that polling question,
-
which actually speaks to competence
and the way you get to a place --
-
I think increasing competence goes
back to professional development.
-
So, this question says, have you
received professional development
-
around building supportive
partnerships with fathers?
-
So again, we ask you
to please weigh in.
-
Give you a few minutes to do that.
-
I have received extensive training.
-
I have received some training.
-
I have received a little training.
-
I have received no training.
-
[ Background Noise ]
-
David: Okay, Natalie can
you do the honors please.
-
Oh, I think you're right on time.
-
Wow, so look at this John.
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: A little bit different.
-
John: Yeah, yeah.
-
No, like eight percent - so, of
the respondents says this isn't --
-
this doesn't add up to 100 percent.
-
So, if this were 100
percent of the people
-
on the call these numbers
would actually be higher.
-
So, if you -- like so 16, so 24
percent are saying "received little
-
or no training" and that actually
probably would need to be increased
-
if we were looking at 100
percent because we're only talking
-
about maybe less than
50 percent here.
-
So, that's a pretty large portion
that haven't had specific training.
-
David: And again, what
that could result in is,
-
once we have a better
understanding about what some
-
of the limitations are for
programs around getting
-
that professional development,
-
is ways in which we
may be instrumental
-
in providing some support
and guidance around that.
-
That sounds like we should
be getting some inquiries
-
and some questions around
how programs might be able
-
to build their capacity to do this.
-
John: Yeah, I think that
both parts of this question,
-
it's also a reflection
of who called in.
-
David: Yes, oh go ahead.
-
John: So, we've got people on
the webinar that have an interest
-
and perhaps even a comfort
with working with fathers.
-
And not surprising that they would
want or expect a little bit more
-
in professional development.
-
David: Exactly.
-
John: Yeah.
-
David: Okay, so the
social worker in me,
-
or I would not actually be
true to the social worker
-
within me -- John: Yeah.
-
David: If I didn't ask you
to dig a little bit deeper
-
with a few rhetorical questions.
-
And they're up on the screen.
-
So, when we talk about what
does it mean to really connect
-
with fathers, some questions
that come to mind is,
-
what are the potential benefits?
-
What, if any, are the costs?
-
What might be some
unintended consequences?
-
And are there any other
potential concerns?
-
John: Uh huh.
-
David: So, for me, just
to prompt some discussion,
-
I think benefits are --
you have the opportunity
-
to receive another parent's
perspective on child development
-
and what's important to them
as it relates to their child.
-
You have opportunities to increase
staff competency and capacity
-
to communicate with
and support fathers.
-
And then you're also
increasing fathers comfort being
-
in the program environment.
-
The more comfortable they
are in the environment,
-
the more willing they are to engage
-
in the various activities
that are offered.
-
What are some of the costs?
-
Well again, we sometimes
push and encourage staff
-
to work outside of
their comfort zone.
-
We want them to be
intentionally different,
-
which is not necessarily
always easy to do.
-
We want them to be okay
with the time that it takes
-
for programs to transition.
-
And we don't talk
enough about this.
-
You know, you go from starting
to progressing to innovating.
-
Those are sort of three
different points of intersection,
-
but there could huge chasms between
what it means to go from starting
-
to progressing, from
progressing to innovating.
-
And few programs I've seen
are at that innovative place.
-
And some aspects of what
they do may be innovating,
-
but not as an entire program.
-
Ed, you had talked as we
were preparing for this
-
about some unintended consequences.
-
You want to speak to
that a little bit?
-
Edwin: The intended
consequences, oh God.
-
I can't remember where
I was at with that.
-
We were just sitting there
talking about different things.
-
But, I think -- David: You were --
I can just prompt you a little bit.
-
You were talking about some of the
reaction of some of the mothers
-
and -- Edwin: Oh yeah, exactly.
-
You know, I know that
when I first came
-
into the program there was
really nothing geared to fathers,
-
and that was the whole
initiative behind this.
-
But, now that the strength of the
fathers has started to come in,
-
I think the women were feeling
a little bit left out and again,
-
that's where the consequences were.
-
Again, you know it's hard to
just, you know, really, you know,
-
to focus on just 100
percent of either or.
-
So, you know, that was kind of
a challenge that we're facing.
-
And so, the women started their
group up again, and again,
-
you know, it's good and
it's all well and good.
-
We all work together as a team,
but again, you know, it was like --
-
I think the women were feeling
a little left out of the loop
-
because more dads -- we were
actually having a lot more dads
-
coming into program and, you know,
before when it used to be kind
-
of pretty much women-based.
-
And even going on further out of
the Head Start program, you know,
-
we see a lot more fathers now at
WIC, Child Find, all those things.
-
And, I don't -- I'm not
going to say it's entirely
-
because of our fatherhood program,
-
but I think that men are feeling
more comfortable and in coming
-
into these types of environments.
-
John: Yeah, it's -- yeah I
think that it's a challenge
-
because it takes some skill
on the part of a staff person
-
when both the parents are there.
-
Who do you talk to?
-
And if you're talking
to the father --
-
I actually know a mother
who told me this is --
-
why are you talking to him?
-
I know the answers
to your questions.
-
He doesn't.
-
And so, you get into those
kind of gate keeping kind
-
of issues around the child.
-
So, it's harder to talk to two
people at once then to one.
-
So, I think the consequences
are kind
-
of professional development
consequences
-
and skill consequences
on top of it, yeah.
-
David: Any other potential
concerns, John, that you would --
-
John: Well, it may actually, and
that brings up the next slide.
-
You know, in dealing with men
who are nurturing young children,
-
there may be some
elephants in the room.
-
And, maybe I just stop
for a moment and --
-
this is an awful cute
elephant though David.
-
It's -- David: It is.
-
Edwin: It is Dave.
-
John: But, this, you know, what
is the elephant in the room?
-
What is there between women who
care for young children and men,
-
who come into the program, who
are the fathers of those children,
-
or the men in the mothers
of those children's lives?
-
And the larger kind of elephant
in the room, in my opinion,
-
in having done a lot of this work
over the years, is that all of us,
-
men and women, have, kind of,
-
previous relationships
with men in our lives.
-
You know, whether it's our
fathers, or whether it's that game
-
that so many people play from early
adolescence on, and in high school
-
about relations between the
sexes, in that those dynamics
-
of how you talk to men period can
enter into a conversation about --
-
that have kind of under the
surface when you're talking
-
about the care of a child.
-
And so, I think it's raising that
elephant in the room, kind of,
-
as David has portrayed it, as not
necessarily operating all the time
-
or preventing good
communications from happening.
-
But, I think we do have to
acknowledge that the game,
-
the various kind of communications
that go on between men and women
-
in our society often involve the --
-
you know, other things than
caring for young children.
-
And again, to bring that to
awareness is probably an important
-
part of a professional
development program.
-
David: It really is.
-
And just I think really a few
other important things to add
-
to it you've already said.
-
You know this brings
up sort of implications
-
for how you support families,
particularly fathers,
-
around substance abuse issues
and domestic violence issues
-
and even just fear issues
of what it means to connect
-
and build a relationship
given the sexual tension
-
that takes place between
men and women.
-
John: Yeah.
-
Edwin: David.
-
David: Yes.
-
Edwin: This is Ed.
-
Again, just talking
about the elephant,
-
I think from the native perspective
also again, a lot of it has to do
-
with our historical traumas.
-
You know again, you're looking
back at what men versus women,
-
what their -- what we're --
what is culturally appropriate
-
at that time.
-
David: Right.
-
Edwin: That's some
of the major impacts
-
of some of our programs here.
-
You know [inaudible] that you
know the elephant is right there
-
on your back, you know.
-
Again, that's where we're --
-
you know, we have a lot of
these social emotional issues.
-
And, all the economic health and
wellbeing of our children are kind
-
of compromised because of sometimes
those cultural -- I'm not --
-
in a sense inadequacies, or I don't
know if that's the right term,
-
but that's something
that sometimes we kind
-
of have to face here in Laguna.
-
>> Oh.
-
>> Yeah. David: Okay, thank you.
-
So, we will move along.
-
John, this is you.
-
John: Yeah, yeah.
-
I think that this area -- and I
love these pictures by the way.
-
The -- look at the engagement.
-
Look at like the man, the woman
-
and the kids all paying
attention to the same thing.
-
So much learning is
happening when you see that.
-
And I just love the
picture down below.
-
You can see how the kids just --
-
this child that's on
the carpet is just
-
like loving looking up at this guy.
-
I don't know what he's
saying, but it's --
-
he certainly has engagement
from the children right there.
-
The program environment, I think,
you might ask the fathers what it's
-
like to walk into your program.
-
The experience of a father
walking into a program
-
with young children
that's designed by women,
-
and I've got numerous slides
of program environments,
-
and I can put them up there and
say, you know, "is this comfortable
-
for most men to walk into".
-
The step across the threshold
-
into the program may feel
very different -- David: Yeah.
-
John: -- for a man.
-
So, I think it's very
valuable to think
-
about you know is this a
welcoming environment for a man?
-
That doesn't mean you have
to have like deer heads
-
on the wall or anything.
-
What it means is you know
having pictures of men,
-
having the size seats
somewhere that they can fit in.
-
And really, I think, you
can probably go to men
-
and have them walk in and see.
-
But, it's almost less a physical
environment than it's the, kind of,
-
interpersonal environment.
-
And, that goes back
-
to the relationships
on the framework slide.
-
Is -- is it a welcoming
place when a man walks
-
into the door with a child.
-
Since most of you said you were
comfortable you probably have those
-
places, but it's something again to
be -- to think intentionally about.
-
I -- the other one that's circled
here is teaching and learning
-
and I already addressed
the pictures.
-
But, when men come into
volunteer the classroom,
-
their interactions may
look a little different
-
than you would expect
when a mother comes in.
-
The instruction may
not be quite as direct.
-
It might a little bit wilder.
-
That's not to say that some women
won't come in and be quite loud
-
when they come into the classroom.
-
I certainly have seen that.
-
But, the frame is different.
-
The interactions may look a
little different and they,
-
as I pointed out in
the research slide,
-
those kind of interactions
have benefits for kids as well.
-
David: Awesome.
-
And so now we have the distinct
pleasure of having Edwin Cheromiah,
-
Sr. talk specifically
about what all this looks
-
like within the context
of a program.
-
So, Ed I'm going to
turn it over to you.
-
Edwin Cheromiah, Sr.:
Alright, thank you very much,
-
and thank you for having me.
-
I do appreciate it.
-
Again, this is just, kind
of, a picture of, you know,
-
really good feelings at the Head
Start with the rainbow showing,
-
depicting you know that
children are very important,
-
sacred in our lives here
at the Head Start program.
-
I just have a few
slides here just too kind
-
of depict some of those things.
-
[inaudible] okay.
-
We were talking about all the
things that we have just talked
-
about coming from the
beginning of the slides.
-
Here are things that we're
attempting to do here
-
at the program is to
make sure that we ensure
-
that we support fathers
in every way.
-
And, a lot of that has
to deal with, you know,
-
making them feel comfortable.
-
The picture on the upper left
hand corner there is a picture
-
of just some dads who were
helping with an activity,
-
and I believe it was
our Easter activity.
-
And, you know, the dads are
coming in doing that more because,
-
I think, the teachers are more
engaging with their fathers
-
as they're coming and they're
making them feel comfortable,
-
knowing that they
are important part
-
of their child's upbringing
and wellbeing.
-
Again, we always encourage
parents, dads, to come in
-
and show their talents and that was
just a picture they had taken of me
-
as I was talking to
the kids about music.
-
And there's other things that
we do in the culturally --
-
the cultural way of
things, you know,
-
our cultural traditional dances.
-
We encourage dads to come in and
sing songs for their parents.
-
I'm sorry, sing songs
for their kids.
-
They are helping making the --
-
our traditional costumes
for the dances.
-
They're making -- the teachers
are absolutely making them,
-
you know, feel comfortable here.
-
And, of course we always have the
challenges all the time still yet,
-
but I think that's
also helping them
-
with helping the men set
goals, set priorities.
-
And also again, you know if
a child comes in with an IEP
-
or [inaudible] you know the dads
are more comfortable knowing
-
that they can do these
things for their kids.
-
Like I said, we include
fathers in classroom activities.
-
We have literacy programs to --
-
where dads are coming in
and reading to the children.
-
There's also programs to where
we're teaching Keres language
-
to the kids and we have actually
in our program one, two -
-
two teachers that actually speak
-- teach the Keres language.
-
And we also have two
custodians and a male cook.
-
So we're starting to get
more male involvement
-
because of just the comfort
level that they feel right now.
-
And again, all of it is just to
ensure that the kids are ready
-
for the next level of education.
-
Again, on the -- we --
-
I also coordinate a
monthly fatherhood night.
-
And that's what we call them, just
simply as that, fatherhood nights.
-
And I have a grandparent here, if
you don't mind, I'd like for him
-
to kind of give an idea
of you know is perspective
-
on our fatherhood nights.
-
Wilbur Lockwood: Yeah, I'm Wilbur
Lockwood, and I'm a grandparent
-
to the fatherhood
organization here in Laguna.
-
And they been very instrumental
to spelling out different things
-
that need to be possibly addressed,
not only traditionally wise,
-
but how we can go ahead and
be a better parent, I guess,
-
is what it is, you know.
-
Nowadays we've got a lot of young
parents out there with kids that,
-
really, they don't know how
to run or raise as a family.
-
And, in order to do that then we,
you know, we all sit down together
-
and offer suggestions of what
we need to do, maybe possibly
-
to better each other in raising
our kids or grandfathering,
-
grandmothering our kids and also
-
that they can have a
productive life when --
-
whether they leave the reservation
or not, and go out into the world,
-
which is like when Ed
mentioned about seed planting.
-
You know, that's one of the things
that we try to stress that life is
-
like a seed, you put
it in the ground
-
and it grows and spreads out.
-
Well, that's basically how our life
is, is you know we put ourselves
-
on the pedestal and let our
parents teach us different things.
-
And not necessarily we try to
avoid all the bad stuff, but still
-
yet you know somehow, somewhere
they get in there and all.
-
But, we try to tell the fathers,
you know, try to live as an example
-
for your own kids
and love your kids.
-
You know it's not, not to
a point to where you --
-
it's embarrassing when you go
up to your child and hug them
-
or give them a kiss on
the cheek or whatever
-
and say, you know, "I love you".
-
And all the sudden we see
that on the reservation
-
because that's not part
of us really and all.
-
But, you know Ed has gone out
of his way, I think anyway,
-
to really try to stress that
to us fathers out there;
-
his nightly meetings that
he has every month and all.
-
If we could get more
fathers in there,
-
I think basically we can have a
better working relationship among
-
each other and among
their own families
-
out there in the community.
-
Edwin Cheromiah, Sr.: Right,
just some of the things
-
that we've been doing along
them with our father program.
-
And again, the expected
outcomes, of course,
-
is to overcome some
of the barriers.
-
And this, kind of, picture
depicts some of those things,
-
overcoming barriers to
improve positive involvement
-
in our children.
-
This is something just called a
jackrabbit shuffle that, you know,
-
that was created by Dr.
Clayton Small in the Road
-
of Life curriculum,
which we also use here.
-
And also it's culturally
appropriate.
-
It's educational, especially,
you know, again, it helps.
-
You know, it helps,
especially if it's --
-
and that's the parent coming in for
the first time seeing these things,
-
how important it is to drop
some of those barriers.
-
So again, that's all
to increase, you know,
-
just fatherhood involvement.
-
We are also developing
fathers and cultural fathers
-
and children's cultural
development.
-
This particular slide
here is a father.
-
This father is teaching
these children our annual --
-
it's called a -- it's
called the Corn Dance.
-
And it's, again, going back into
preservation of our livelihood
-
and hoping and praying for
rain so that we can plant --
-
the seed has been planted
will continue to grow
-
and also flourishes
back into the children.
-
So, those are some of the things
that we've been really working
-
at here at the Laguna
Head Start Program.
-
And again, this is just a group
picture of some of the guys
-
that have been here
throughout the years.
-
This guy in the center holding
the ribbon has been a very
-
instrumental part.
-
He no longer has children
here at Head Start
-
but continues to come back.
-
And he was one of the guys back in
'04 that started the whole program.
-
And the guy off to the
left-hand side behind him
-
on the back row there with the cap,
-
the big guy with the big
cheesy smile, he's also.
-
And the guy also, kind of, with
his hand over his shoulder is a --
-
oh wow, what's happening?
-
Did something there.
-
How I'd get out of that?
-
David: That's alright
just go ahead.
-
Edwin Cheromiah, Sr.:
He's one of the guys --
-
those are the men that have really
pushed this program along before he
-
came to Head Start.
-
It was first done under the,
the -- what was it called now?
-
The oh, PFS, Partners
For Success Program,
-
and they eventually
came here to Laguna.
-
But right now this -- our mission
statement kind of says that all --
-
summarizes everything
that we're trying
-
to do here at Laguna Head Start.
-
And our mission is just this,
-
the mission at Laguna
Fatherhood Group is
-
to support fathers interested
in contributing their skills
-
and resources for the development
of their children at home,
-
in the community and school
settings, all the things
-
that we've been just, kind of,
-
talking about all
throughout the whole slides.
-
So, again that's kind of
what we do here at Laguna.
-
And if there's any, you know --
-
I would encourage
anyone to give us a call
-
and we can always talk a
little bit more about this.
-
So again, that's kind of
my presentation there.
-
Thank you.
-
David: Yep, one more.
-
>> Okay, oh this is the
Father Engagement Resources?
-
Kiersten: Yep.
-
I think -- this is Kiersten,
and I know we're wrapping up.
-
We're probably going to go a couple
minutes over for those of us --
-
for those of you who want to stick
around for another five minutes.
-
We -- I want to just let you know
a little bit about the resources
-
that we keep referring to.
-
The Head Start Father
Engagement Birth
-
to Five Programming
Guide just came out today
-
with an information
memorandum to all programs.
-
Las Manos de Apรก is a set of
resources for programs for working
-
with Latino fathers around
supporting their relationships
-
with their young children,
particularly around literacy.
-
There's support group
curriculum and training material.
-
We also have a couple of
videos that we're sharing.
-
The Best Practices Series that
the National Center is doing.
-
This is the first in the
series that we're putting
-
out called Engaging Fathers
-
and Engaging Young Fathers
Through Support Groups.
-
These are basically -- they'll
be some facilitation guides
-
to support training conversations
and group interactions
-
with staff around, kind of, what
your takeaways from the videos are.
-
So, these are, kind of --
-
can function like exercises
in your program for thinking
-
about father engagement.
-
There was a -- I'm sorry that our
public chat wasn't working so well.
-
I appreciated some of the comments.
-
Janus McBride had
talked about, you know,
-
just really reiterating the point
that you really need staff buy-in
-
in terms of, you know,
getting father engagement,
-
involvement going.
-
Otherwise, it's a real struggle.
-
And there was a question
about the PowerPoint.
-
This PowerPoint won't be
shared, but the resources --
-
there are a lot of training
material in the resources
-
that we've talked about.
-
And you can contact us for
specific things that you're looking
-
for from the PowerPoint
if you're wanting
-
to support a particular
exercise, that kind of thing.
-
We'd be happy to share it.
-
So, David, I think,
if you want to take us
-
out with some summarizing points
-
about what we've talked
about today.
-
David: Sure, so our last slide
just really underscores everything
-
that we discussed, basically
saying that fathers are important
-
to their children,
which all of you know,
-
their families and
their communities.
-
You know, the relationship
building with fathers is key,
-
looking at the program leadership,
-
the continuous improvement
processes,
-
professional development, all of
those things that we discussed.
-
Utilize these resources
that we're providing to you
-
to really assess your family
and your father engagement.
-
Hold thoughtful conversations,
-
even some of the challenging
conversations
-
that you may need to have.
-
When we say let's have
a real conversation
-
and you know what that means.
-
You know, conduct some real
program planning on how to do this.
-
Make this integrated
throughout your entire program.
-
Engage in staff development.
-
Implement and evaluate and review.
-
And, celebrate fathers
and families.
-
This is our time to not only
do it just because it's June
-
and it's Father's Day approaching,
but fathers are so instrumental
-
to their families and their
communities and we want
-
to make sure that you're thinking
about that throughout the year.
-
I want to take this time
to really thank first
-
and foremost Yvette Sanchez
Fuentes, our fearless leader,
-
the Director of the Office of
Head Start, for just supporting
-
such important work; Edwin
and John for co-facilitating;
-
Kiersten Biegel, who
is an absolute gem,
-
and without whom I'm not
sure we would have been able
-
to pull all of this off this week.
-
Thank you so much.
-
The National Center on Parent,
Family and Community Engagement,
-
our technical support team at
I-Link, Natalie and Sam and all
-
of the participants who
joined us for this webinar.
-
It is extremely important
to note that we are aware
-
of the great work that's
taking place in programs
-
across the country and through
some collaborative partnerships
-
that you've established.
-
Our only goal is to
provide tangible resources
-
that can increase the likelihood
-
that your father engagement efforts
are not tied to an individual
-
or external consultant, but are
connected to an integrated system
-
of meaningful services
with fathers, children
-
and families, and we thank you.
-
Kiersten. Kiersten:
Thanks everybody.
-
John: That was awesome, David.
-
David: That was a wonderful
job all the way around guys.
-
Thank you so, so much.
-
Thank you all the participants.
-
I think people are
starting to sign out.
-
So, we don't have
time for questions
-
but I guess people will email us.
-
>> Okay, that sounds great.
-
>> Alright, thank you very much.
-
>> Thank you.
-
>> Thanks everyone.
-
>> Thank you.
-
>> Goodbye we'll see you all.
-
>> We'll talk to you soon.
-
>> Very soon.