Anglų - The Mars MAVEN Mission and "Dreams of Other Worlds" author Chris Impey - SA Hangout #7

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Robotic exploration of space is fascinating, complex, and quite important to our understanding of the universe. Join us as we speak to Chris Impey astronomer and author of "Dreams of Other Worlds: The Amazing Story of Unmanned Space Exploration" and Nick Schneider, planetary atmospheric scientist a member of the NASA MAVEN Mission Science Team (Mars Atmosphere and Volatile Evolution Mission), about how scientists and engineers overcome challenges of robotic space exploration for successful data collection.

We also learn more details about the upcoming MAVEN orbiter mission to Mars, set to launch November 18, as we seek to answer, "Where did Mars' atmosphere go?" SA blogger Joanne Manaster hosts this hangout.

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Pavadinimas:
The Mars MAVEN Mission and "Dreams of Other Worlds" author Chris Impey - SA Hangout #7
Apibudinimas:

Robotic exploration of space is fascinating, complex, and quite important to our understanding of the universe. Join us as we speak to Chris Impey astronomer and author of "Dreams of Other Worlds: The Amazing Story of Unmanned Space Exploration" and Nick Schneider, planetary atmospheric scientist a member of the NASA MAVEN Mission Science Team (Mars Atmosphere and Volatile Evolution Mission), about how scientists and engineers overcome challenges of robotic space exploration for successful data collection.

We also learn more details about the upcoming MAVEN orbiter mission to Mars, set to launch November 18, as we seek to answer, "Where did Mars' atmosphere go?" SA blogger Joanne Manaster hosts this hangout.

--

WATCH more 'SA Hangouts': http://goo.gl/N79uRB
SUBSCRIBE to our channel: http://goo.gl/fmoXZ
VISIT ScientificAmerican.com for the latest science news: http://goo.gl/lHq0CH

Help us caption & translate this video!

http://amara.org/v/DgCx/
1855 0:02 - 0:06

JM: Hi everybody! This is Joanne Manaster,
a blogger with Scientific American
5885 0:06 - 0:10

and I'd like you to welcome to this
very special Scientific American chat
10320 0:10 - 0:13

that we are airing on the heels
12653 0:13 - 0:16

of NASA's press conference yesterday
15973 0:16 - 0:22

about NASA's MAVEN space orbiter
that is expected to launch
22168 0:22 - 0:25

mid-November to head to Mars
25184 0:25 - 0:29

to look at the non-existent
atmosphere of Mars
29136 0:29 - 0:31

and wonder, where did it go?
31575 0:32 - 0:35

So I'm joined today by two special guests
34845 0:35 - 0:38

who can enlighten us about
37814 0:38 - 0:41

both what's going on with the orbiter
40891 0:41 - 0:47

and about unmanned or robotic
space exploration in general.
46668 0:47 - 0:52

So first, I'd like to introduce you
to a NASA space scientist,
51872 0:52 - 0:54

one of the MAVEN scientists,
54443 0:54 - 0:59

Nick Schneider, from the
University of Colorado in Boulder.
58245 0:58 - 1:02

He's with the Laboratory for
Atmospheric and Space Physics.
62172 1:02 - 1:04

That's a mouthful.
63863 1:04 - 1:08

And he's one of the members
of the Science Team.
67261 1:07 - 1:09

I'm actually going to pull up…
69588 1:10 - 1:11

He's an Associates Professor
71251 1:11 - 1:14

in the Department of Astrophysical
and Planetary Sciences
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at the University of Colorado.
76692 1:17 - 1:21

He received his PhD in Planetary Science
from the University of Arizona.
80941 1:21 - 1:25

His research interests include
85417 1:25 - 1:29

planetary atmospheres
and planetary astronomy
88904 1:29 - 1:33

with one focus on the odd case
of Jupiter's moon, Io.
92934 1:33 - 1:36

He is also the lead on the
Imaging Ultraviolet Spectrograph
96481 1:36 - 1:39

on the upcoming MAVEN mission to Mars.
98974 1:39 - 1:41

He enjoys teaching at all levels
100795 1:41 - 1:45

and is active in efforts to improve
undergraduate astronomy education.
104586 1:45 - 1:47

I'd go for that.
106162 1:46 - 1:48

Off the job, he enjoys
exploring the outdoors
108449 1:48 - 1:51

with his family
and figuring out how things work.
111368 1:51 - 1:53

What I have here?
113131 1:53 - 1:56

I'd like to show up something you've done.
115836 1:56 - 1:58

You are one of the authors on this book
117793 1:58 - 2:00

which I hear is in 7th edition.
119918 2:00 - 2:02

NS: That's right.
121123 2:01 - 2:03

JM: The Cosmic Perspective
122733 2:03 - 2:05

This is a beginning astronomy textbook.
125706 2:06 - 2:07

NS: Exactly.
127335 2:07 - 2:09

JM: Welcome Nick.
128944 2:09 - 2:12

I'm going to introduce Chris right now.
131887 2:12 - 2:17

Chris Impey is a
university distinguished Professor
137143 2:17 - 2:20

at the University of Arizona.
139689 2:20 - 2:22

So you guys have a connection.
142140 2:22 - 2:25

And he's Deputy Head
of the Astronomy Department.
145131 2:25 - 2:27

His research interests include
147341 2:27 - 2:33

observational cosmology,
quasars, and distant galaxies.
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He has written 160 research papers
and two astronomy textbooks
156285 2:36 - 2:38

but you say those are online, right?
158565 2:39 - 2:40

CI: Yeah, the one's repurposed.
160447 2:40 - 2:43

It's called Teach Astronomy
so it's up there and free.
163197 2:43 - 2:47

JM: Oh, great. He has won
11 teaching awards
166612 2:47 - 2:50

has served as a National Science
Foundation distinguished teaching scholar
170514 2:51 - 2:53

a Phi Beta Kappa visiting scholar
173523 2:54 - 2:57

and the Carnegie Council's
Arizona Professor of the Year.
178604 2:59 - 3:02

He is former Vice President of
the American Astronomical Society
181694 3:02 - 3:04

and Fellow of the AAAS.
184120 3:04 - 3:07

He has four popular books
actually now five:
186952 3:07 - 3:11

The Living Cosmos,
How It Ends, Talking About Life,
190627 3:11 - 3:13

and the one that we are referencing today
193494 3:13 - 3:16

called Dreams of Other Worlds
195777 3:16 - 3:19

which is the Amazing Story of
Unmanned Space Exploration.
199672 3:20 - 3:21

So welcome, Chris.
201276 3:21 - 3:23

CI: Thank you.
202808 3:23 - 3:25

JM: It's great to have you both here.
205668 3:26 - 3:28

Before we go forward
207917 3:28 - 3:31

in News of Space today,
211346 3:31 - 3:35

Chris Hatfield, Col. Chris Hatfield
from the Canadian Space Agency
215342 3:35 - 3:39

who was on the ISS and returned recently.
218622 3:39 - 3:42

As we know he made
a big splash on social media
221720 3:42 - 3:44

with his images, and singing,
223799 3:44 - 3:47

and his videos explaining his music.
226960 3:47 - 3:50

He has published a book
It is out today.
230165 3:50 - 3:53

So if you haven't gotten
you haven't heard of it, it's called
233151 3:53 - 3:56

An Astronaut's Guide to Life on Earth:
What Going to Space
236352 3:56 - 4:00

Taught Me About Ingenuity, Determination,
and Being Prepared for Anything
240631 4:01 - 4:03

And we at Scientific American
242934 4:03 - 4:06

will have him as a guest
on November 14th at noon.
246441 4:06 - 4:10

So mark that on your calendars
and join us if you can for that.
250210 4:10 - 4:14

So, let's talk a little bit about MAVEN
254143 4:14 - 4:18

before we talk about un-manned
space exploration in general
258475 4:18 - 4:22

or robotic space exploration in general.
262988 4:23 - 4:26

There's a lot of interest,
so why don't we do some of the details?
266422 4:26 - 4:29

When is this expected to launch?
268938 4:29 - 4:33

NS: MAVEN is slated to launch
in the afternoon of November 18th.
273857 4:34 - 4:37

It's a short period every afternoon
276829 4:37 - 4:38

for a couple of weeks
278286 4:38 - 4:42

when all the planets are aligned,
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because we have to have the Earth
in the right position relative to Mars
285127 4:45 - 4:47

and the right rotation of the Earth
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so that the spacecraft will actually
get to Mars on time.
291700 4:52 - 4:54

If you ever wanted to know somebody
293144 4:53 - 4:56

whose life was controlled
by the positions of the planets
295843 4:56 - 5:00

well, that's anybody trying to launch
a spacecraft to another planet.
300725 5:01 - 5:02

JM: But not the rest of us.
302263 5:02 - 5:06

So what's in paper is not relevant at all.
307420 5:07 - 5:09

But actually there are several days
309263 5:09 - 5:13

so you have a window
of several days during this time.
312360 5:12 - 5:15

NS: That's right, it's a couple of weeks
and the main thing that happens
315513 5:16 - 5:19

if the planets go out of alignment
it just takes a little bit extra fuel.
319518 5:20 - 5:24

And fuel is precious,
it's our ability to maneuver
324113 5:24 - 5:26

when we get to Mars.
325739 5:26 - 5:28

So we really want to launch
at that sweet spot
328271 5:28 - 5:30

early in the launch window.
330811 5:31 - 5:32

JM: That's fantastic.
332253 5:32 - 5:35

I'm excited because I'm going down
for the launch, myself.
335360 5:35 - 5:37

The only other launch I've seen
337790 5:38 - 5:39

is the last space shuttle launch.
339009 5:39 - 5:41

I'm glad I got to see that one.
340722 5:41 - 5:44

So, I'm looking forward
to watching an Atlis-5 go off.
344634 5:45 - 5:46

NS: Me too.
346350 5:46 - 5:48

JM: I'm really quite excited about this.
348974 5:49 - 5:51

So, as far as…
351902 5:52 - 5:56

We're wondering, for those of who did
not catch the press conference yesterday.
356208 5:56 - 5:59

What is MAVEN going to do?
359493 5:59 - 6:02

NS: Sure, I'm happy to explain that.
361855 6:02 - 6:07

I'm pretty sure that
the members of the hangout
367980 6:08 - 6:10

are going to be pretty familiar
369115 6:09 - 6:12

with the basics on Mars.
373092 6:13 - 6:15

A hundred years ago or more
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anybody who looked through
the telescope on Mars
377708 6:18 - 6:21

really wondered what was going on
with the change of the seasons.
381300 6:21 - 6:24

There was actually a suspicion
that there was life on Mars,
384283 6:24 - 6:26

water on Mars,
386308 6:26 - 6:30

but by the time
the first NASA probes got to Mars
389867 6:30 - 6:32

what they discovered instead
391597 6:32 - 6:34

is that the atmosphere now
is next to nothing.
394521 6:35 - 6:39

There's no flowing water or evidence
399192 6:39 - 6:42

of abundant water on the surface
401985 6:42 - 6:44

and instead it's this really cold
404401 6:44 - 6:47

really dry planet.
407029 6:47 - 6:49

And yet, you look at those images
409259 6:49 - 6:52

and what you see from the spacecraft
412389 6:52 - 6:55

are dried up river beds
414585 6:55 - 6:57

river deltas filing up craters.
417506 6:58 - 7:01

There must have been
a warmer wetter environment
420747 7:01 - 7:03

billions of years ago.
422666 7:03 - 7:05

And the only way that's possible
424937 7:05 - 7:08

is for there to have been
a huge greenhouse effect
428126 7:08 - 7:10

with lots more atmosphere.
430639 7:11 - 7:13

Everybody's best guess
432601 7:13 - 7:17

is that Mars has lost
80, 90, 99% of the atmosphere
437237 7:17 - 7:20

over billions of years.
440535 7:21 - 7:23

We used to think that
the atmosphere on Mars
443336 7:23 - 7:26

might have combined with the surface.
445586 7:26 - 7:28

That's actually where limestone
comes from on the Earth.
448326 7:28 - 7:31

It's carbon-dioxide being
sucked into the surface.
451165 7:31 - 7:33

But the missions sent to Mars so far
453466 7:33 - 7:36

can't find enough evidence
455935 7:36 - 7:39

that the atmosphere
re-combined with the surface.
459182 7:39 - 7:42

So we're left with the other possibility
461745 7:42 - 7:44

that the atmosphere escaped away to space.
464462 7:44 - 7:47

And so that's what MAVEN
is going to go check.
467860 7:48 - 7:49

Is it possible
468796 7:49 - 7:51

that through the host of processes
471455 7:51 - 7:55

we understand that the escape rate
of the atmosphere to space
474870 7:55 - 7:57

is large enough to explain
476753 7:57 - 8:00

where almost all the early
Mars atmosphere went?
480115 8:00 - 8:02

And I can get into more detail
481938 8:02 - 8:04

about how we make
those measurements, if you want,
484384 8:04 - 8:07

but I just wanted you
to get the basic idea
486652 8:07 - 8:09

about what MAVEN's about,
488764 8:09 - 8:10

JM: That's interesting.
490203 8:10 - 8:13

So part of my interest in this
492602 8:13 - 8:17

is I was invited to come
to a New Media workshop
496628 8:17 - 8:19

out there at the University of Colorado
498911 8:19 - 8:22

and to listen to you scientists talk about
501662 8:22 - 8:24

what MAVEN was all about.
504162 8:24 - 8:27

So I'm happy to follow up
with this hangout
506761 8:27 - 8:29

for the Scientific American audience.
509044 8:29 - 8:32

One thing that was interesting was
511848 8:32 - 8:35

Why didn't we send a probe to Venus?
514780 8:35 - 8:38

We've sent probes elsewhere
to look at the atmosphere.
518133 8:38 - 8:40

But why not Venus?
520136 8:40 - 8:42

I mean that's so obvious
it's so close, but…
522806 8:43 - 8:45

I'll actually ask Chris
524649 8:45 - 8:47

to weigh in on this because
you've just written a book
527180 8:47 - 8:51

about almost every single
unmanned exploration craft
531394 8:51 - 8:53

that's been sent out.
533612 8:54 - 8:56

CI: I think that the trouble with
planetary science now
536426 8:56 - 8:59

is there's so many good ideas to pursue,
539117 8:59 - 9:02

and so few new starts possible
in the budget.
542267 9:02 - 9:04

You can't do everything.
543940 9:04 - 9:06

I was hanging out at JPL
545818 9:06 - 9:08

lecturing to engineers there
547772 9:08 - 9:11

and one of them was the lead
on a Venus mission,
550509 9:11 - 9:12

a Venus lander,
552110 9:12 - 9:15

which got deselected at the last stage.
554597 9:15 - 9:17

When it got down to the final four
it wasn't picked.
557206 9:17 - 9:19

And it was really challenging
559149 9:19 - 9:21

because, you know, Venus
is a pretty nasty place
561513 9:22 - 9:24

and they had a mission
that was going to land there
564300 9:24 - 9:26

take data for ten days
565514 9:26 - 9:29

before it got baked out and died
568907 9:29 - 9:31

and learn an enormous amount about Venus.
570933 9:31 - 9:34

So, you know, there are missions
573559 9:34 - 9:35

sitting there on the shelf
575423 9:35 - 9:39

from NASA people
and people who work with NASA
578940 9:39 - 9:42

to do almost everything you could imagine
581920 9:42 - 9:43

whether it's Hydrobot
582706 9:43 - 9:46

melting through the European ice pack
and looking for life
586129 9:46 - 9:49

or going back to Titan with dirigibles
589146 9:49 - 9:51

and sampling all the lakes
590854 9:51 - 9:54

or the more advanced Mars concepts
593603 9:54 - 9:55

that would actually look for life
595374 9:55 - 9:59

by drilling down to what we think
might be aquifers underneath.
598655 9:59 - 10:01

There are all these concepts out there
600894 10:01 - 10:04

and not enough coin to do most of them.
605550 10:06 - 10:07

JM: Yeah,
608301 10:08 - 10:10

with the number of things we've sent out
610382 10:10 - 10:13

and we've learned a lot,
it just seems infinite
613150 10:13 - 10:15

what else we could possibly learn
615170 10:15 - 10:17

if we could send every dream
617337 10:17 - 10:20

of explorers out there.
620663 10:21 - 10:24

Actually before we get back to
the Mars atmosphere and MAVEN
624343 10:24 - 10:27

I was interested,
626535 10:27 - 10:29

when I first mentioned to my editor,
628634 10:29 - 10:32

I want to talk about this book
and the MAVEN thing.
632680 10:33 - 10:38

Your subtitle is The Amazing Story of
Unmanned Space Exploration
637581 10:38 - 10:39

and I was immediately countered with
639474 10:39 - 10:42

"Oh, that's not the correct term
642428 10:42 - 10:44

"the politically correct term
643986 10:44 - 10:46

"to use the word 'unmanned' ".
646203 10:46 - 10:49

And I inquired of you about that.
648697 10:49 - 10:53

So do you want to explain why you chose
"unmanned" versus "robotic"
652152 10:52 - 10:55

despite the fact "unmanned"
might upset people?
655624 10:56 - 11:00

CI: To be honest, that was
a publisher decision actually
660256 11:00 - 11:04

They published a book
and they get the deciding vote on that.
664150 11:04 - 11:07

"Robotic" would have been
a better choice, I agree.
667526 11:08 - 11:12

And, we've had to take
the various languages…
671965 11:12 - 11:16

Look at the evolution of the Star Trek
the famous Star Trek line,
675989 11:16 - 11:19

"where no man has gone before" to
"where no one has gone before"
679275 11:19 - 11:22

So there's been
suitable and appropriate evolution
681982 11:22 - 11:24

of some of these iconic phrases
684729 11:25 - 11:29

JM: So, would both of you agree that
"robotic" is probably
689014 11:29 - 11:32

just a better term, or a perfect term
691758 11:32 - 11:36

or is there an even better term?
'Cause we've sent out telescopes…?
696322 11:36 - 11:38

And when I think of "robotic"
698013 11:38 - 11:40

I think of lots of moving arms
699954 11:40 - 11:44

and things that are grabbing things
to bring back to analyze
704124 11:44 - 11:49

and less so just
analytical equipment or optics.
709392 11:49 - 11:53

But, I guess, my expansion of "robotics"
might need to expand.
713542 11:54 - 11:56

NS: I use "robotic exploration".
716653 11:57 - 11:59

CI: They do feel quite different.
718772 11:59 - 12:02

Orbiting telescopes
or telescopes at the LaGrange Point
721686 12:02 - 12:06

they're just the technology
we use on Earth to observe
726046 12:06 - 12:08

transplanted into space.
727799 12:08 - 12:09

And we remote observe on the Earth
729469 12:09 - 12:12

I don't have to go to
Chili or Hawaii anymore
731817 12:12 - 12:14

because I can remote observe
from my office.
734241 12:14 - 12:17

But I think "robotic" is appropriate
737437 12:17 - 12:19

for the planetary missions
739029 12:19 - 12:21

because they're literally
like sense extenders.
741393 12:21 - 12:23

They're our eyes and our ears
743501 12:24 - 12:28

on another world, and we often
operate them that way.
750250 12:30 - 12:34

JM: I'll have Chris give sort of
753620 12:34 - 12:38

a history of robotic exploration
on Mars for us
757734 12:38 - 12:41

and then we'll go back and talk a
little bit more about the MAVEN mission.
761414 12:41 - 12:43

So, think back to your book,
763133 12:43 - 12:46

what you've talked about
the different explorers
765808 12:46 - 12:48

that have goneto Mars
and what they've accomplished.
768455 12:48 - 12:52

Maybe their drawbacks
771504 12:52 - 12:54

and how we're improving on that?
773577 12:54 - 12:57

CI: Right, why I was interested in that book
777160 12:57 - 12:59

is that I think that some people
778857 12:59 - 13:03

just underestimate how fantastic
these technologies really are.
782783 13:03 - 13:06

Just setting Mars aside for a minute,
785986 13:06 - 13:09

the Huygens probe to soft-land on a world
788915 13:09 - 13:11

nearly a billion miles away
791170 13:11 - 13:14

and then inspect it
and find that it has
793579 13:14 - 13:17

this bizarre Earth-like lakes,
796663 13:17 - 13:20

and weather and cryovolcanism,
and all this cool stuff.
799871 13:20 - 13:22

That's an amazing achievement
801670 13:22 - 13:24

and to go back to the beginning
803763 13:24 - 13:27

the Viking missions, long forgotten now
806695 13:27 - 13:30

most Americans were not alive
when those missions were designed.
810145 13:30 - 13:32

They were 1960s technology
812431 13:32 - 13:35

Think of computers then,
think of electronics then.
815221 13:35 - 13:38

And those two landers and two orbiters
818298 13:38 - 13:40

did amazing things.
819954 13:40 - 13:42

They did life-detection experiments
821874 13:42 - 13:44

that have not been surpassed since
824179 13:44 - 13:48

and one of which at least
led to an ambiguous result.
827155 13:47 - 13:50

So, the Vikings were amazing missions
830375 13:50 - 13:53

for that time, 40 years ago
832879 13:53 - 13:57

and we've just continued
the progression with rovers.
836974 13:57 - 14:02

Then NASA having gone for the
bouncing bag landing mechanism
842140 14:02 - 14:05

which is kind of safe, very forgiving
844603 14:05 - 14:07

upped the degree of difficulty hugely
847485 14:07 - 14:10

with Curiosity and the Skycrane.
849834 14:10 - 14:12

So again, amazing technologies
852345 14:12 - 14:14

really high risk
853821 14:14 - 14:17

and high reward
and high payoff activities.
857716 14:18 - 14:23

These types of missions
absolutely push our technology.
863017 14:23 - 14:25

Now a geologist would tell you
865630 14:26 - 14:28

there is no substitute
for bringing back Mars rocks.
868248 14:28 - 14:33

On Earth you could examine them
molecule by molecule.
872206 14:32 - 14:35

But what you can compress into
875455 14:35 - 14:39

something that you can launch
and will survive the passage
878522 14:39 - 14:41

and the launch, and the entry into Mars
880982 14:41 - 14:43

is still pretty amazing technology.
883240 14:43 - 14:46

The instruments on Curiosity,
for instance,
885605 14:46 - 14:49

I think we absolutely push the envelope
888967 14:49 - 14:52

of almost everything
we can do in technology
892212 14:52 - 14:55

when we design these kind of missions.
894652 14:55 - 14:57

NS: Yeah, Chris, if I can jump in here
896693 14:57 - 15:00

and add onto this
you talk about high technology
899612 15:00 - 15:02

high performance, high capability.
902398 15:02 - 15:05

But part of the message
that sometimes gets lost
905467 15:05 - 15:08

is that this is also low cost.
907783 15:08 - 15:11

If you think about every image
910574 15:11 - 15:14

ever returned by Cassini spacecraft
913609 15:14 - 15:17

or every rock ever picked up
by a Mars rover
917127 15:17 - 15:20

the sum total of all this
robotic exploration
920535 15:21 - 15:23

is less than half of NASA's budget.
923418 15:23 - 15:25

It's a small fraction.
925322 15:25 - 15:28

Putting humans in space
927862 15:28 - 15:31

as dramatic and as forward moving as it is
931290 15:31 - 15:34

and as much as I love that, too
934409 15:34 - 15:36

that's more expensive.
936904 15:37 - 15:39

What we can do with robots
938974 15:39 - 15:41

being so much more affordable
941210 15:41 - 15:44

we can go everywhere
and we can go there now.
944171 15:44 - 15:49

So, it was really the immediacy
of robotic exploration
948862 15:49 - 15:53

and our pervasive presence in space
952570 15:53 - 15:56

that makes it such
a compelling subject for me.
956733 15:57 - 16:00

CI: And, of course, that advantage
will just continue to grow
959564 16:00 - 16:01

because the robotic missions
961479 16:01 - 16:03

will become more miniaturized.
963485 16:03 - 16:06

They will benefit from Moore's Law
965687 16:06 - 16:08

and humans are always going to be tricky
968389 16:08 - 16:10

and difficult to sustain in space.
970491 16:10 - 16:13

Space is not a natural place for humans.
973543 16:14 - 16:15

We're sort of shading into a huge debate
975445 16:15 - 16:19

that plays out in our various communities
978580 16:19 - 16:23

of man versus unmanned
or human versus non-human or robotic
982658 16:23 - 16:25

and it doesn't have to be either or.
984768 16:25 - 16:27

You're going to be talking
to Chris Hatfield
986892 16:27 - 16:29

and when the astronauts
like him or John Grunsfeld
989477 16:29 - 16:32

who we've had here a number of times
and who's a hero.
992578 16:33 - 16:35

He walks into the auditorium
and he gets a standing ovation
995450 16:35 - 16:39

from 200 astronomers
the guy who fixed Hubble three times.
998962 16:39 - 16:42

So, there's no substitute for that either.
1001629 16:42 - 16:43

But it's expensive.
1003222 16:43 - 16:45

The space shuttle real cost
1005510 16:46 - 16:47

was half a billion dollars a launch
1007490 16:47 - 16:50

and a couple of shuttle launches
1009660 16:50 - 16:52

buys you a really cool planetary probe
¶
1012342 16:52 - 16:55

so that's a hard trade-off.
1017145 16:57 - 17:00

JM: I actually really liked
your recap of the Hubble
1020495 17:00 - 17:05

the entire Hubble
building, launching, and repair
1025126 17:05 - 17:07

in your book.
1026836 17:07 - 17:09

It's worth visiting the book just for that.
1029154 17:09 - 17:12

But I did really like that retelling.
1033105 17:13 - 17:15

What I wanted to say
1034729 17:15 - 17:17

now that Chris has
talked about the different
1037169 17:17 - 17:20

probes that are there
that we sent there.
1040525 17:21 - 17:24

Of course, we know
we just had a government shutdown
1043570 17:24 - 17:29

and this probably had you guys
at MAVEN sweating... a lot
1050292 17:30 - 17:34

but you got a bit of a reprieve
1054782 17:35 - 17:38

and they allowed you to continue the work.
1058580 17:39 - 17:43

Do you want to explain why you guys
were allowed to get that exemption?
1063580 17:44 - 17:46

- Sure
- But the NAH couldn't?
1067055 17:47 - 17:51

NS: So, the MAVEN project did stand down
1070737 17:51 - 17:52

for a couple of days
1072427 17:52 - 17:55

under the government shutdown.
1076664 17:57 - 18:00

We were all very anxious
and frustrated by this.
1081351 18:01 - 18:03

This mission is ready to go
1083006 18:03 - 18:05

and it's got great science
1085336 18:05 - 18:08

but under the terms of the shutdown
1088339 18:08 - 18:12

that's not enough to get the exemption.
1092867 18:13 - 18:17

And even the fact that missing this launch
window that I talked about
1096948 18:17 - 18:21

and waiting in cold storage
for a couple of years
1101157 18:21 - 18:24

for the next chance would cost
a couple hundred million dollars
1104408 18:24 - 18:27

even that was not enough.
1106998 18:27 - 18:30

But, what really mattered is the fact that
1109862 18:30 - 18:36

built into MAVEN is a relay capability
for radio transmission
1116204 18:36 - 18:39

with the rovers on the surface
1118853 18:39 - 18:42

and so it's really these ongoing missions
1121960 18:42 - 18:46

that we need to preserve
the capability for communication.
1126270 18:46 - 18:50

That was the primary justification
for MAVEN getting
1130384 18:50 - 18:53

exempted from the shutdown.
1132820 18:53 - 18:55

There are a couple of satellites
around Mars
1135280 18:55 - 18:57

that are capable of performing
that relay function
1137391 18:57 - 19:00

but they're getting
a little long in the tooth
1140144 19:00 - 19:04

and we needed to make sure that MAVEN
would get there in this launch window
1144642 19:05 - 19:08

to be able to fulfill that role as needed.
1148491 19:08 - 19:11

Now we hope those other missions survive
1150573 19:11 - 19:12

but the last thing you want
1152110 19:12 - 19:15

is Curiosity, on the surface
making great discoveries
1155180 19:15 - 19:18

and no capability for
the high data rate back to Earth.
1158503 19:19 - 19:22

So that was what got MAVEN back on track.
1162130 19:22 - 19:26

And we are on track
for the launch on November 18th.
1165610 19:26 - 19:27

Did I say November 18th?
1167314 19:27 - 19:28

JM: Yes.
1168571 19:29 - 19:31

CI: I can't resist commenting that.
1170629 19:31 - 19:34

We're talking about how high-tech
space exploration is.
1173770 19:34 - 19:38

One of the areas where it's really
behind the curve is communication.
1178546 19:39 - 19:42

Probably some of your viewers may know
1181720 19:42 - 19:46

that Vincent Serf, who is the architect
of the original internet
1185183 19:45 - 19:48

is now working with NASA
on an interplanetary internet,
1188372 19:48 - 19:51

because there are real problems
1190740 19:51 - 19:54

with operating the internet
beyond the Earth
1193720 19:54 - 19:58

because you have missions
with hour-long transmission times
1198347 19:58 - 20:01

and they have to look up IP addresses
1200565 20:01 - 20:04

and they have to get hooked
1203912 20:04 - 20:07

into the patchwork quilt
that is the internet
1206579 20:07 - 20:09

and the protocols that go with it.
1208613 20:09 - 20:10

There's no way to do that right now.
1210541 20:11 - 20:15

So, we actually have to design
an entirely new architecture
1214870 20:15 - 20:17

for interplanetary internet
1216169 20:16 - 20:19

on which all of these
space missions will depend.
1219664 20:20 - 20:22

JM: That's really interesting.
1222489 20:22 - 20:26

CI: It's been pioneered by the mission
that's just gone to the moon, actually.
1226856 20:27 - 20:29

JM: Bellary.
1228119 20:28 - 20:31

CI: Bellary has been just pioneering
1230122 20:30 - 20:33

some of the first transmission protocols
under this new internet
1233218 20:33 - 20:36

a protocol for planetary explor…
1235754 20:36 - 20:39

JM: Is that built into the MAVEN, too then?
1238971 20:39 - 20:43

NS: No, we don't have
that advanced technology.
1245251 20:45 - 20:49

JM: You have a picture
of MAVEN behind you
1248502 20:49 - 20:51

and you also have a model.
1250962 20:51 - 20:54

Why don't you pull that forward
and sort of explain
1254707 20:55 - 20:57

what we've got going on
1256634 20:57 - 20:59

so people have a…
1258870 20:59 - 21:01

Because everyone's got this idea
1260501 21:01 - 21:03

of what Curiosity looks like, right?
1263814 21:04 - 21:06

Because there are just images all the time
1266340 21:06 - 21:09

of the rovers displayed on the internet
and everything.
1268648 21:09 - 21:12

So, I thought we could get an idea
of what an orbiter this type
1272491 21:12 - 21:14

is going to look like and do.
1274588 21:15 - 21:18

NS: Sure, and I'm glad you emphasized
the word "orbiter".
1277583 21:18 - 21:21

This spacecraft doesn't land
on the surface.
1281257 21:21 - 21:25

We just orbit the planet
over and over again
1284658 21:25 - 21:27

about every five hours, or so
1286972 21:27 - 21:29

studying the different ways
1288807 21:29 - 21:31

that the atmosphere
can escape away to space
1291122 21:31 - 21:34

and even what the atmosphere properties
1293780 21:34 - 21:37

are high up in the atmosphere.
1297296 21:37 - 21:40

But to give you a bit of a tour
1299570 21:40 - 21:42

this is a 1/30th scale model.
1302200 21:42 - 21:44

So the actual MAVEN spacecraft
1304316 21:44 - 21:48

from tip to tip is about the size
of a school bus.
1307999 21:48 - 21:50

And everything that you see out here
1309776 21:50 - 21:52

all this real estate, is the solar arrays.
1312373 21:52 - 21:55

So we gather enough solar power
1314647 21:55 - 21:59

to fuel all of our instruments
all of our controlled electronics.
1321374 22:01 - 22:05

Right here is where
we keep the explosives.
1325164 22:05 - 22:07

This is the fuel that we fire
1327417 22:07 - 22:10

as we enter Mars' orbit.
1329901 22:10 - 22:12

It has to slow us down
all the excess energy
1332216 22:12 - 22:14

that we arrive there with.
1334595 22:15 - 22:19

And, so the actual
rocket nozzles are down here.
1339923 22:20 - 22:24

And this is our relay antenna
1343905 22:24 - 22:26

by which we send
our own data back to Earth
1346462 22:26 - 22:30

and also any data from the rovers
1349688 22:30 - 22:32

when they need us
to perform that function.
1352560 22:33 - 22:36

And when we talk about robotic exploration
1356400 22:36 - 22:40

we might say that humans
have five senses
1360426 22:40 - 22:44

Well, I have to say that
spacecraft can have dozens
1364359 22:44 - 22:48

or you can choose from dozens
of different kinds of senses
1368320 22:48 - 22:51

when you're designing
your robotic explorer.
1371530 22:52 - 22:55

And Chris has already talked about
1375518 22:56 - 22:59

how robots can be the eyes and ears
and those analogies are really quite good.
1379621 23:00 - 23:03

So, for example, you can see
we've got these antennas here
1383429 23:03 - 23:07

and we've got some
devices out on the end here.
1386594 23:07 - 23:09

These are like the ears of the spacecraft
1388691 23:09 - 23:12

listening to the magnetic and electric fields
1391712 23:12 - 23:15

as they change in the vicinity
of the spacecraft.
1395855 23:16 - 23:18

One of the things our spacecraft does
1397771 23:18 - 23:21

is it actually flies
through the atmosphere
1401192 23:21 - 23:23

actually it flies this way.
1403036 23:23 - 23:27

That's why the solar arrays
are angled like that.
1407738 23:28 - 23:30

As we fly through the atmosphere
1409861 23:30 - 23:32

we have a handful of instruments
1411664 23:32 - 23:34

that it's like smelling
or tasting the atmosphere.
1414502 23:35 - 23:38

Particle by particle they can see
what the atmosphere is made out of
1418043 23:38 - 23:40

and even how fast
those particles are going
1420266 23:40 - 23:43

and if they'll escape away.
1423587 23:44 - 23:47

My baby is this instrument, right here.
1426570 23:47 - 23:49

It's the Imaging Ultraviolet Spectrograph.
1428685 23:49 - 23:51

It's the eyes of MAVEN.
1431207 23:51 - 23:53

You might not know it
1432617 23:53 - 23:55

but every atmosphere in the solar system
1434830 23:55 - 23:58

is glowing like crazy in the ultraviolet.
1439021 23:59 - 24:02

We have this instrument
that can spread the spectrum apart
1442325 24:02 - 24:05

and see how much carbon dioxide is,
1444962 24:05 - 24:08

how much hydrogen, how much oxygen,
1448661 24:09 - 24:10

all those different ingredients
1450517 24:11 - 24:13

how they're distributed
through the atmosphere
1452734 24:13 - 24:16

and even, again,
their chances of escaping.
1455883 24:16 - 24:18

So this spacecraft is perfectly designed
1458168 24:18 - 24:21

with every instrument onboard
that's necessary
1460926 24:21 - 24:23

to track all the different ways
1463121 24:23 - 24:26

that the atoms and molecules
of the Mars atmosphere
1466020 24:26 - 24:28

can escape away to space.
1468535 24:29 - 24:31

Did I leave anything out?
Did you have any questions?
1471351 24:31 - 24:35

JM: When you're saying it's going
through the atmosphere
1474525 24:35 - 24:38

were you saying that's towards the planet
or away from the planet?
1477637 24:38 - 24:40

Because there are some dips
1479596 24:40 - 24:41

you are doing, like planned…
1481340 24:41 - 24:43

NS: That's right.
1482680 24:43 - 24:46

Let me get my other prop here.
1486596 24:47 - 24:49

JM: Which will not be to scale?
1491675 24:52 - 24:55

NS: I don't have enough hands
to really do it right.
1494963 24:55 - 24:58

But to keep things in perspective
1497923 24:58 - 25:00

remember that a planet's atmosphere
1499968 25:00 - 25:03

is really thin on the scale of the planet.
1502844 25:03 - 25:07

Mars is considerably
smaller than the Earth,
1507652 25:08 - 25:11

larger than the moon
intermediate-size planet
1510545 25:11 - 25:15

but still the atmosphere
is just about 100, 200 km down here.
1515409 25:15 - 25:19

And our spacecraft is designed
1518936 25:19 - 25:22

to swoop from high altitudes here, down
1522318 25:22 - 25:26

and fly, skim through the upper layers
1527575 25:28 - 25:31

where the air resistance
is pretty significant
1530690 25:31 - 25:33

and then come back up again.
1532820 25:33 - 25:35

We're actually able to take
images of the planet from up here
1535163 25:35 - 25:37

and then we'll dip back down.
1537346 25:37 - 25:40

And, every now and again
we change our orbit,
1540230 25:40 - 25:44

so that we go even deeper
into the atmosphere.
1544034 25:44 - 25:48

It's still far above where airplanes fly
or anything like that
1547734 25:48 - 25:50

in terms of density in Earth's atmosphere
1550464 25:50 - 25:53

but it's a region of great interest
1552734 25:53 - 25:56

for the upper layers of the atmosphere
1555568 25:56 - 25:57

where gasses start to escape.
1557299 25:57 - 25:59

So we call those deep dips.
1559343 25:59 - 26:02

Nonetheless,
1562973 26:03 - 26:08

it's pretty I won't say hair-raising
I'll just say unnerving
1567172 26:07 - 26:10

the sight that every orbit
we dip down into the atmosphere
1570118 26:10 - 26:13

that's just a little bit of friction
and we come out again.
1573660 26:14 - 26:16

It's why we need to have fuel
so we can continue to tune the orbit
1576408 26:16 - 26:20

and not dip down any deeper
than we need to, scientifically.
1580646 26:21 - 26:23

JM: So how long is this…
1582910 26:23 - 26:27

How long is MAVEN's,
your science project, supposed to last?
1587214 26:27 - 26:31

And then I'll get to Chris
about the longevity of things
1590912 26:31 - 26:33

because things have lasted
longer than we thought.
1593483 26:33 - 26:36

So your project
is slated to last how long?
1596558 26:37 - 26:39

You'll be collecting data officially…?
1599280 26:39 - 26:41

CI: The MAVEN primary mission
1601509 26:42 - 26:43

is one Earth year in duration.
1603678 26:44 - 26:47

We were hoping that we could
slip in the fine print
1606570 26:47 - 26:49

change one Earth year to one Mars year
1608999 26:49 - 26:52

but it turns out they're tracking that.
1611930 26:52 - 26:55

But one Earth year is enough for us
1614816 26:55 - 26:58

to sample all the different
conditions of the atmosphere
1618318 26:58 - 27:03

especially how the atmosphere behaves
when the sun kind of goes kablooey.
1623188 27:03 - 27:07

I'm sure that the viewers
are aware of solar activity
1626894 27:07 - 27:09

and the way that the sun
can spit out
1628981 27:09 - 27:12

extra energetic photons,
energetic particles.
1632614 27:13 - 27:16

Those are the processes that can
strip away the Mars atmosphere.
1636507 27:17 - 27:20

And we really want to study how the
atmosphere behaves under those conditions
1640474 27:20 - 27:24

and we should see that
in our one Earth year primary mission.
1644426 27:24 - 27:28

JM: So there's an anticipated
major solar activity, right?
1648400 27:28 - 27:31

That this is of concern as you guys arrive
1651303 27:31 - 27:33

if I remember correctly?
1653389 27:33 - 27:35

NS: The sun is unpredictable.
1655329 27:35 - 27:39

We don't know what the sun's going
to do when we arrive,
1658984 27:39 - 27:41

You might be thinking about the comet
1661079 27:41 - 27:44

that gets to Mars
around the same time that we do,
1663891 27:44 - 27:47

JM:That must be what I'm thinking of
which is different.
1666638 27:47 - 27:49

NS: Always something going on
in our solar system.
1670569 27:51 - 27:54

JM: Now, you will not be doing
any sort of readings on the comet
1673711 27:54 - 27:56

unless it affects the atmosphere, right?
1675865 27:56 - 27:58

NS: That's too soon to tell.
1677741 27:58 - 28:01

We're putting all that on hold
until we're safely launched.
1680852 28:01 - 28:04

I just needed to correct
1683755 28:04 - 28:07

something that I said a minute ago
and that is to say
1686781 28:07 - 28:09

we are arriving at Mars
1689148 28:09 - 28:12

while the sun is
in a statistically active period.
1692932 28:13 - 28:15

So that part was correct.
1694984 28:15 - 28:17

But whether or not there's going to be
1697443 28:17 - 28:20

a good solar storm the day we turn on
1699727 28:20 - 28:22

we wish, but we don't know.
1701746 28:22 - 28:25

JM: We don't know that for sure,
that's one of those things.
1704689 28:25 - 28:28

I want to pop back to Chris
because, first of all,
1708041 28:28 - 28:31

this area writing this book
1710675 28:31 - 28:34

about unmanned space exploration
is not your original field of study.
1714428 28:34 - 28:38

This is not what you prefer to do
but you're very interested.
1717998 28:38 - 28:42

You've been allowed a lot of insights
by the people you know.
1722332 28:42 - 28:45

NS: Yeah, he chose the wrong field
when he was young.
1725217 28:45 - 28:48

CI: Well, I talked to people
like Caroline Porco
1727737 28:48 - 28:50

and she said it's like child-rearing.
1730056 28:50 - 28:53

You've got to set aside
an 18-20 year timespan
1732832 28:53 - 28:55

to do something like Cassini
1734682 28:55 - 28:58

I'm just a bit too much of an
instant gratification kind of person.
1738514 28:59 - 29:01

I like to go to a big telescope
get my data, write a paper
1741324 29:01 - 29:03

and be done within six months.
1743243 29:03 - 29:06

So it's just impatience
that's the only thing
1745801 29:06 - 29:09

I do want to echo
one thing Nick talked about.
1748554 29:09 - 29:12

The trajectory, and the swooping
in and out of the atmosphere.
1752186 29:12 - 29:14

That's another one of the amazing…
1754221 29:14 - 29:17

the orbital mechanics
of the people that do this
1756903 29:17 - 29:20

in the outer solar system
or anywhere in the solar system
1759689 29:20 - 29:21

it's pretty amazing.
1761358 29:21 - 29:26

Cassini will by the end of it's
equinox and solstice missions
1766309 29:26 - 29:28

have done over a hundred flybys.
1768482 29:28 - 29:31

And they of course
re-program these in real time.
1770908 29:31 - 29:34

Once you find out that ???
is interesting you go back to it.
1774222 29:34 - 29:37

And I think the closest approach
1776608 29:37 - 29:40

was 22 km via Iapetus
and that's incredible.
1780564 29:41 - 29:44

And that's a billion miles away
and you're swooping your billion
1783952 29:44 - 29:46

multi-billion dollar hardware.
1786844 29:47 - 29:50

NS: And don't forget that this
was all pre-programmed
1789879 29:50 - 29:52

weeks or months in advance
1791731 29:52 - 29:54

because there's no two-way communication.
1793996 29:54 - 29:56

No one's driving Cassini.
1795596 29:56 - 29:58

CI: That's right. So, these are really
1798542 29:59 - 30:01

remarkable feats to be doing,
1800630 30:01 - 30:04

and the people who do that,
they must be having a hell of fun.
1803773 30:04 - 30:07

Just like the guy who was
was the deputy PI
1806779 30:07 - 30:10

of the Deep Impact mission.
1809670 30:10 - 30:12

He was quoted afterwards saying
1811741 30:12 - 30:14

"I can't believe they're paying us
to have this much fun".
1814504 30:15 - 30:17

NS: That's right, and every now and again
1816556 30:17 - 30:19

somebody will come up to me and say,
1818646 30:19 - 30:22

"Oh, are you a rocket scientist?"
and you know, I get a little chuffed.
1822773 30:23 - 30:26

But then I was put in my place recently
when somebody said,
1825828 30:26 - 30:28

"Huh, rocket scientist. I would never get
1828523 30:29 - 30:31

into a rocket made by a scientist".
1833265 30:33 - 30:37

It's the rocket engineers
that really deserve the credit.
1836952 30:37 - 30:39

You know, we get to go answer
the big questions
1839162 30:39 - 30:42

and that's what we consider fun,
1841868 30:42 - 30:47

but boy, are we ever dependent
on the ingenuity of the rocket engineers,
1847175 30:47 - 30:50

and what an amazing job they do.
1849605 30:50 - 30:52

JM: I have to interject this.
1851966 30:52 - 30:55

I met a lady, who was an engineer,
1854788 30:55 - 30:57

and she ended up writing
a book for children
1857013 30:57 - 30:59

about engineers, what do engineers do,
1859321 30:59 - 31:02

because her own 5-year-old
was looking at, like,
1862503 31:03 - 31:05

a shuttle launch, or something, and said,
1864665 31:05 - 31:08

"Oh, wow! Look what scientists get to do"
1867899 31:08 - 31:10

and she goes "and engineers".
1870417 31:10 - 31:13

"Engineers are the ones
who make this actually happen"
1873212 31:13 - 31:15

so, yeah, is very important.
1875564 31:16 - 31:18

We don't have an engineer
on the panel right now.
1878021 31:18 - 31:20

We got two scientists...
well, three scientists.
1880417 31:20 - 31:23

But I don't do space stuff.
1883256 31:23 - 31:26

Chris, I'd like you to speak quickly
about this thing.
1886758 31:27 - 31:29

We send… well, we've had a few
1889447 31:29 - 31:32

where things have tried to give up,
1891938 31:32 - 31:34

but then sort of revived themselves,
1894330 31:34 - 31:37

they're able to work,
but for the most part,
1897135 31:37 - 31:39

we send these things out,
1898984 31:39 - 31:41

and they have an expected lifespan.
1901404 31:41 - 31:44

But most of the time they seem
to be exceeding that lifespan.
1905299 31:45 - 31:47

If you could speak on that,
1907163 31:47 - 31:51

and what we can do,
once we've gotten lucky.
1911246 31:51 - 31:54

CI: And that's natural and good engineering.
1914283 31:54 - 31:57

Of course, engineers like to have big margins,
1917297 31:57 - 31:59

and those margins are not always…
1919433 31:59 - 32:02

For a bridge, or anything,
it's a factor of two or three.
1922251 32:02 - 32:06

I think in space sometimes it's even more,
like an order of magnitude.
1925624 32:06 - 32:08

So, obviously the twin rovers
1928072 32:08 - 32:11

poor Steve talking about Mars time,
1930809 32:11 - 32:14

poor Steve Squires has been
living Mars time for a decade,
¶
1933587 32:14 - 32:16

and he was only supposed
to do that for three months.
1936754 32:17 - 32:19

Because the second
of his rovers is still working.
1939535 32:20 - 32:22

There is another wonderful example.
1942516 32:23 - 32:28

The Pioneers and the Voyagers
now leaving our messages in a bottle,
1947858 32:28 - 32:30

tossed into the outer solar system.
1949897 32:30 - 32:32

They're putting out.
1951670 32:32 - 32:34

Their plans are reduced to a fraction
1954170 32:34 - 32:36

of a Watt of transmitted energy,
1956316 32:36 - 32:39

but we've got big enough
telescopes like Arecibo
1959317 32:39 - 32:42

to detect that at a distance
of billions of miles.
1961736 32:42 - 32:45

These again, Ed Stone, whose at JPL,
1965012 32:45 - 32:50

he's into his 80s, I think,
and these missions
1970451 32:50 - 32:54

are outlasting all of their investigators,
some of them.
1973730 32:54 - 32:55

And that's fine,
1975234 32:55 - 32:58

because they're still returning
useful data, and it's great.
1978519 32:59 - 33:02

The problem, of course, is the project,
1981686 33:02 - 33:04

and the money, and the funding
1983802 33:04 - 33:06

sort of implies an ending point,
1985897 33:06 - 33:09

and so it's horrible
when you face the prospect
1989015 33:09 - 33:11

of having to switch something off
1990698 33:11 - 33:14

that's still working,
or just not look at the data,
1993698 33:14 - 33:16

or not run the instruments anymore.
1995840 33:16 - 33:18

And those are real situations
1997650 33:18 - 33:20

because, obviously,
you can't start new things
1999943 33:20 - 33:22

unless you stop doing
some of your old things.
2005197 33:25 - 33:28

JM: I'm going to move back.
Thank you for that, Chris.
2007859 33:28 - 33:31

I'm going to move back
over to Nick about…
2011533 33:32 - 33:35

So what will you do when you're
past the one-year mark?
2015232 33:35 - 33:37

Will it depend on funding?
2017334 33:37 - 33:40

Will you still maintain
2020189 33:40 - 33:44

the communications
with the rovers on the surface,
2023789 33:44 - 33:49

or pair up with ESA
for future projects, or what?
2029933 33:50 - 33:54

NS: The one thing we know for sure
after our first year,
2033817 33:54 - 33:59

is that MAVEN will be kept
alive and operating
2038630 33:59 - 34:02

to serve as a relay for the rovers
2041608 34:02 - 34:04

for absolutely as long as possible.
2044095 34:04 - 34:07

And obviously, the current rovers,
2046869 34:07 - 34:12

and there's another one
arriving in Mars 2020,
2051707 34:12 - 34:15

but whether or not MAVEN
is also doing science
2054990 34:15 - 34:17

remains to be seen
2057066 34:17 - 34:21

Every NASA mission, whether it's
the Hubble Space Telescope
2061072 34:21 - 34:24

or the rovers, after 90 days,
2064267 34:24 - 34:27

goes through a very careful process
2067093 34:27 - 34:29

where the team says,
if you give us more money,
2069462 34:29 - 34:32

here's the science that we can do.
¶
2071812 34:32 - 34:35

And so, they're thoughtful decisions,
2075382 34:35 - 34:41

albeit with a tight pocketbook
2081488 34:41 - 34:45

And so, we'll go through that process
called "Senior Review"
2085063 34:45 - 34:48

probably a handful of months
before the end of our first year
2087983 34:48 - 34:50

and we'll make the case saying,
2090237 34:50 - 34:53

if you allow us to keep
making measurements
2093275 34:53 - 34:56

here's the science that we can accomplish
2095934 34:56 - 34:58

It's a fabulous spacecraft.
2098045 34:58 - 35:00

It's got excellent instrumentation on it,
2100517 35:01 - 35:03

and I'm sure we'll make a very good case,
2102911 35:03 - 35:08

but it'll be up to a bunch of people
making these difficult choices.
2108630 35:09 - 35:11

JM: How many instruments are on MAVEN?
2111154 35:11 - 35:15

NS: You know, the truth is,
I can't remember if it's eight or nine,
2114611 35:15 - 35:16

but it's a bunch
2116342 35:16 - 35:22

and some of them are designed
for measuring the waves and the fields.
2122470 35:22 - 35:25

Some of them are designed
for the charged particles.
2124969 35:25 - 35:26

Some for the neutral particles
2126511 35:27 - 35:29

We're for photons, and some have two parts
2129114 35:29 - 35:32

and some have three,
and so that's why I can't quite keep track.
2132685 35:33 - 35:35

Basically, we have enough instruments on,
2135377 35:35 - 35:39

that an atom and molecule
can't get away from Mars
2139339 35:39 - 35:42

without us having a handle
on that process.
2142527 35:43 - 35:44

JM: We've noticed that.
2144237 35:44 - 35:49

Chris, so, reading your book,
I got the sense,
2149071 35:49 - 35:51

the average seems to be a dozen.
¶
2151243 35:51 - 35:55

There's at least a dozen
on every probe we send out.
2155054 35:55 - 35:58

Would you say that's true?
Did I get that right?
2157953 35:58 - 36:03

CI: Yeah, a lot of mass emissions now
are likely Swiss army knives.
2163541 36:04 - 36:08

They have large numbers
of instrument teams combining
2168223 36:08 - 36:10

and Cassini is a classic example
2170177 36:10 - 36:12

that these are
multi-billion dollar missions.
2172462 36:12 - 36:15

Hubble is an example,
great space observatories,
2175284 36:15 - 36:18

but NASA's also had enormous success
2178022 36:18 - 36:21

with more specialized
single purpose missions.
2181513 36:22 - 36:24

My favorite two examples, of course,
2183755 36:24 - 36:27

are Keplar, as it's PI, Bill Burouki,
famously said,
2187770 36:28 - 36:31

"it's the most boring mission
you could possibly imagine".
2190837 36:31 - 36:34

It's designed to take a picture
of the same piece of sky,
2193516 36:34 - 36:35

every six minutes, for years,
2195236 36:35 - 36:37

and that's all it does.
2196777 36:37 - 36:38

It's how dull?
2198211 36:38 - 36:41

And then WMAT,
a completely different concept.
2201303 36:41 - 36:44

A sort of microwave satellite
looking at the early universe
2204129 36:44 - 36:46

also just doing a very simple thing,
2206324 36:46 - 36:50

just scanning the sky,
over and over and over again,
2209805 36:50 - 36:53

drilling down in the systematic
and random errors
2213055 36:53 - 36:55

to make a microwave map,
2214838 36:55 - 36:57

and that's all it can do
but it's incredible.
2217505 36:58 - 36:59

Those two missions hit,
2219208 36:59 - 37:02

which cost a fraction of a billion dollars,
2222195 37:02 - 37:06

more like, 100 million, say,
which is of course not cheap.
2225943 37:06 - 37:09

They do one thing exquisitely well.
2228682 37:09 - 37:12

So there's sort of two ways to go
with all of these missions
2232991 37:13 - 37:16

JM: Now MAVEN,
there were a lot of questions
2236582 37:17 - 37:22

about cost in the press conference
yesterday.
2242289 37:22 - 37:25

Do you remember some
of those numbers, Nick?
2245175 37:25 - 37:29

NS: No, and I missed the last part
of this press conference.
2250576 37:31 - 37:35

Scientists you'll learn remember numbers
to a factor of two, or so.
2256019 37:36 - 37:39

But we have, of course, teams of people.
2259101 37:39 - 37:42

The engineers are
a little more precise in that.
2262021 37:42 - 37:45

And the budgeteers more precise still.
2265203 37:45 - 37:52

All I know is that MAVEN has not
raised the alarms of cost overruns.
2272534 37:53 - 37:56

We have a principle investigator
who's made some hard choices,
2276493 37:56 - 37:58

especially early on
2278110 37:58 - 38:02

about how we're going
to keep this mission from over-running.
2282072 38:02 - 38:07

This is a real… the mark of what
are called "PI-led missions"
2286853 38:07 - 38:09

Principle Investigator Led Missions,
2289106 38:09 - 38:11

where it's really on one person's plate
2291308 38:11 - 38:14

to make sure that
this is going to perform,
2294031 38:14 - 38:17

do the science, and not overrun in cost.
2297215 38:17 - 38:20

So the MAVEN definitely goes
in the plus column
2299751 38:20 - 38:23

and being in the university setting
2303122 38:23 - 38:25

is one of the ways
that we've really been able
2305297 38:25 - 38:27

to keep the cost down,
2306791 38:27 - 38:29

and we sure wish that
more opportunities like this
2309215 38:29 - 38:31

would be coming down the pike
2311225 38:31 - 38:33

CI: These are hard tradeoffs too,
2313410 38:33 - 38:36

because sometimes an idea comes along
2315784 38:36 - 38:38

that you really want to add in
to your instruments
2318309 38:38 - 38:40

so it gives you a new capability,
2320175 38:40 - 38:43

and you've got to fit it
under that cost curve.
2322567 38:43 - 38:44

The famous example I like,
2324295 38:44 - 38:48

is that the Vikings were not
originally designed with cameras.
2328468 38:48 - 38:51

And Carl Sagan argued, he said
2331294 38:51 - 38:53

"We're going to look really foolish
2333033 38:53 - 38:55

"if there are polar bears on Mars
2334677 38:55 - 38:57

"and we didn't have a camera
to take pictures of them".
2337255 38:57 - 39:00

He was joking, but his point was taken,
2339830 39:00 - 39:02

and so the Vikings had cameras,
2342217 39:02 - 39:05

and it's the evocative image
of the surface of Mars
¶
2345185 39:05 - 39:07

that caught everyone's attention.
2347330 39:07 - 39:10

And then fast-forward to Curiosity,
2349942 39:10 - 39:13

and this was unfortunately a failed attempt.
2353015 39:13 - 39:15

James Cameron was part of that project,
2354971 39:15 - 39:17

and he was on the verge of having a design
2356990 39:17 - 39:20

for an HD video camera
to be part of Curiosity.
2360795 39:21 - 39:22

It just couldn't make it under the wire
2362298 39:22 - 39:27

of getting all specified and locked down
before the launch,
2366901 39:27 - 39:31

so Curiosity did not have
the James Cameron connection.
2370872 39:31 - 39:35

But keeping these possibilities in play
is really important,
2374712 39:35 - 39:37

even if it's a tough budget decision.
2376836 39:37 - 39:39

NS: So, MAVEN by the way,
2378609 39:39 - 39:42

does not have
a visible light camera on it.
2382034 39:42 - 39:45

When you think about
the technology that's there
2385049 39:45 - 39:48

for Mars reconnaissance orbiter,
2388145 39:48 - 39:51

every camera has to be better
than the one before.
2390584 39:51 - 39:54

With all these other instruments
that we have onboard,
2393609 39:54 - 39:56

we couldn't take an even better camera.
2395732 39:56 - 39:57

But we'll be sending back
2397497 39:57 - 40:01

some pretty cool images and movies
2400979 40:01 - 40:03

of the planets at the ultraviolet,
2403123 40:03 - 40:06

and that'll be a new contribution.
2405753 40:06 - 40:10

Not so many megapixels though,
not scientifically important.
2410491 40:10 - 40:13

JM: I'm actually wearing,
I'll have to come up closer.
2413045 40:13 - 40:15

I'm actually wearing a necklace
2414610 40:15 - 40:17

by this gal whose fascinated with Mars
2416545 40:17 - 40:20

and this is Curiosity's
first photo on Mars.
2420174 40:20 - 40:24

So, she's taken iconic images
that have been taken on Mars
2424283 40:24 - 40:27

by Viking and all that
she's then turned into jewelry,
2427144 40:27 - 40:30

and I love wearing them because
they are conversation pieces.
2430060 40:30 - 40:35

So my little contribution
to spreading the excitement
2434896 40:35 - 40:39

of space exploration to the rest of the world.
2441337 40:41 - 40:45

Let me just… There was a question
I wanted to ask.
2445744 40:46 - 40:49

Chris, is there anything else
you'd like to add to this conversation
2449518 40:50 - 40:55

of the larger picture
of space exploration?
2455772 40:56 - 40:58

CI: Well, I'll just make a guess
for the future,
2458168 40:58 - 41:02

which is that we're at a sort
of interesting transition point
2461619 41:02 - 41:05

in space exploration
of the solar system or beyond
2465270 41:05 - 41:07

or even of space astronomy,
2467342 41:07 - 41:13

where we see this nascent private
space industry, which is emerging.
2472962 41:13 - 41:16

Just as well, since America can't get
astronauts up into orbit, anyway.
2476517 41:17 - 41:18

We depend on the Russians,
2478064 41:18 - 41:20

and now we're going to depend
on the private sector.
2480254 41:20 - 41:22

I think that's going to start playing out
2482152 41:22 - 41:24

in the business we've been talked about.
2484109 41:24 - 41:27

Remember there are
a thousand billionaires on the Earth,
2487487 41:27 - 41:32

and any one of them could fund
a really cool planetary probe.
2492378 41:32 - 41:36

So if NASA gets stock on sending
that Hydrobot to Europa,
2495747 41:36 - 41:40

or going back to Titan
with the dirigible technology,
2499899 41:40 - 41:43

I think some billionaires might step in,
2503268 41:43 - 41:46

and I think the whole game
is going to get more interesting.
2506094 41:46 - 41:48

It's kind of limiting
2507685 41:48 - 41:50

when only a couple
of governments are doing it
2509967 41:50 - 41:52

and the governments
get shutdown occasionally,
2512144 41:52 - 41:54

and they have tough budget
choices and so on.
2513950 41:54 - 41:56

I think it will be more of a wild west,
2516268 41:56 - 41:59

but there's going to be some
really cool things that happen
2519031 41:59 - 42:02

when the private sector and entrepreneurs
2521567 42:02 - 42:04

actually start doing this stuff.
2524222 42:04 - 42:06

JM: So, here's a question.
2525997 42:06 - 42:10

Any idea how many project ideas
are out there,
2530430 42:10 - 42:13

and what percent actually happen?
2535525 42:16 - 42:17

NS: It's a small fraction.
2537353 42:17 - 42:23

Every time NASA has an announcement
of opportunity with open categories,
2543046 42:23 - 42:26

there tend to be dozens of missions
2545840 42:26 - 42:29

for every one or two that are selected.
2549048 42:29 - 42:32

And it's a different set of dozens
for every opportunity.
2552343 42:32 - 42:35

So, pretty soon, that's going to be
2555231 42:35 - 42:38

hundreds of ideas that we're not doing.
2558139 42:38 - 42:41

And I can't promise that
they're all good or feasible
2561232 42:41 - 42:43

with the current technology,
2563304 42:43 - 42:49

but far more good and practical missions
are not chosen
2569089 42:49 - 42:52

because a nation hasn't found
the will to fund it.
2574161 42:54 - 42:57

CI: I agree. I mean, in some competitions
2576860 42:57 - 43:00

you go down from 100 to 25 to 4 to 1,
2579970 43:00 - 43:03

and the engineering,
we've talked about the engineering,
2582805 43:03 - 43:06

which is exquisite, and these
are technically feasible.
2586034 43:06 - 43:09

That almost never is the issue
of why they weren't chosen.
2590341 43:10 - 43:13

So, it really is more the will
2593197 43:13 - 43:15

the money, the priorities and so on,
2595341 43:15 - 43:18

which is why I think
if there are more players
2597712 43:18 - 43:21

some of these things
that are sitting there on the shelf,
2600721 43:21 - 43:23

NASA has the designs on the shelf,
2602602 43:23 - 43:24

will actually happen.
2604383 43:24 - 43:28

NS: Let me change from the billionaires
2608390 43:28 - 43:33

that Chris talks about
to the billion kids on the planet,
2613414 43:33 - 43:38

almost all of whom are excited about space.
2619345 43:39 - 43:45

And space is really the gateway,
2624887 43:45 - 43:48

I think the best gateway
to stem education.
2629397 43:49 - 43:52

It's really important that we keep
this space program going.
2632436 43:52 - 43:54

It's now an international effort,
2634358 43:54 - 43:58

so many nations participating to have this
2638251 43:58 - 44:01

really excite the next generation.
2642252 44:02 - 44:06

And before the viewers get discouraged
about the state of affairs
2645961 44:06 - 44:08

where we can't do
everything that we want to,
2648307 44:08 - 44:12

I want everybody to realize that everybody
can play a part in this.
2652111 44:12 - 44:15

And I think spreading the word about
2654931 44:15 - 44:20

what NASA's big handful
of operating missions are doing,
2660062 44:20 - 44:23

if you have access to…
2663575 44:24 - 44:27

If you are comfortable go out
and volunteer in a classroom.
2667524 44:28 - 44:31

Go make sure your taxi driver
2670676 44:31 - 44:34

or your waiter or waitress
2674467 44:34 - 44:37

know what's going on in space.
2677132 44:37 - 44:39

Make this part of everyday conversation
2679332 44:39 - 44:41

so people want to know what's next.
2681095 44:41 - 44:43

What are we doing?
2682600 44:43 - 44:45

Because in the big picture
of the federal budget,
2685188 44:45 - 44:48

this is not an expensive proposition
that we're talking about.
2688255 44:48 - 44:51

We just need to raise everybody's awareness
2690604 44:51 - 44:53

that this is affordable and exciting
2692987 44:53 - 44:55

and it paves the way for the next generation.
2695315 44:55 - 44:58

JM: So actually, you guys
will be happy to hear
2698083 44:58 - 45:01

that I have feedback from my twitter feed
2701038 45:01 - 45:04

and from my Google+ that we have
a couple classrooms
2703926 45:04 - 45:06

watching us right now.
2706041 45:06 - 45:09

I'm so happy that teachers
saw this and said,
2709174 45:09 - 45:12

let's just share about this.
2712537 45:13 - 45:15

The other thing… I do remember a question,
2715820 45:16 - 45:18

and to me the answer seems obvious,
2717975 45:18 - 45:21

but here's a question someone
on my twitter feed asked yesterday.
2721271 45:21 - 45:25

"So why are we going back to Mars?
2724594 45:25 - 45:30

"Why not set our sights on an already
predetermined Earth-like planet
2729620 45:30 - 45:32

"that is way out there, an exoplanet?"
2732303 45:32 - 45:34

So why Mars?
2735341 45:35 - 45:38

NS: I'll do the "Why Mars?" again,
2738076 45:38 - 45:43

and then I'll let Chris talk
about the next exoplanet.
2743570 45:44 - 45:46

We're doing Mars again because
2745525 45:46 - 45:49

what MAVEN is doing there
has never been done before.
2749037 45:49 - 45:51

There's never been a mission
2750914 45:51 - 45:54

that's basically looking at
where the atmosphere goes.
2754380 45:54 - 45:57

We've sent a large number of missions
2756775 45:57 - 46:00

that figured out that there was
a greater atmosphere in the past,
2760015 46:00 - 46:03

but this is just about the biggest
mystery on Mars, nowadays.
2763499 46:03 - 46:05

Where did the atmosphere go?
2765462 46:05 - 46:08

And none of the operating
missions can do that.
2767731 46:08 - 46:09

We've got to go back.
2769366 46:09 - 46:12

CI: And I would also,
just to echo and Segway,
2772296 46:12 - 46:16

I would say that there's so much
still to learn on Mars,
2775799 46:16 - 46:19

and Mars is indeed potentially
a habitable planet under the surface,
2779354 46:19 - 46:21

so we need to figure that out.
2781397 46:21 - 46:24

And we will always learn so much more
2783835 46:24 - 46:26

about a planet in the solar system,
2785848 46:26 - 46:29

than any exoplanet, however nearby.
2789168 46:29 - 46:31

It's just there's no comparison.
2791265 46:31 - 46:37

However, what happens to a planet,
because planets evolve and change
2796783 46:37 - 46:39

and Mars is the great example
2798759 46:39 - 46:41

is going to be true elsewhere too.
2801086 46:41 - 46:44

And so, as we start looking at our bodycount
2803670 46:44 - 46:46

of habitable and Earth-like planets
2805555 46:46 - 46:48

from Kepler and other missions,
2807796 46:48 - 46:50

the context for understanding them
2809556 46:50 - 46:53

when we have very little data,
really we just have a size or a mass,
2812630 46:53 - 46:55

and almost no other information
2814847 46:55 - 46:58

our context for understanding them
is still the solar system,
2818132 46:58 - 47:01

is still the terrestrial planets,
much closer to us
2821566 47:02 - 47:04

NS: We must develop the capability
2824352 47:04 - 47:07

to characterize those planets in greater detail.
2827175 47:07 - 47:10

James Webb's space telescope
will start to do that,
2829521 47:10 - 47:13

but it's a big technological challenge.
2832770 47:13 - 47:17

And, lot's of our favorite
engineers and designers
2836847 47:17 - 47:18

are working on it,
2838248 47:18 - 47:21

but at present it's a pretty
expensive proposition.
2840997 47:21 - 47:26

It's actually considerably cheaper
to continue learning more
2845872 47:26 - 47:28

within our own solar system
2848134 47:28 - 47:30

than it is to learn in great detail
2850156 47:30 - 47:34

about the wealth of worlds
that we now know are out there.
2856041 47:36 - 47:41

JM: So, we've been talking,
a little over 45 minutes.
2861426 47:41 - 47:45

I would like to give both of you
an opportunity
2864828 47:45 - 47:47

to express anything else
2866563 47:47 - 47:49

you'd like to express to our audience
2868666 47:49 - 47:51

or maybe something
I completely forgot to ask,
2871355 47:51 - 47:53

and then we will wrap things up.
2872909 47:53 - 47:55

So why don't we start with Nick?
2874641 47:55 - 47:57

NS: No, no, go to Chris
while I'm trying to…
2876709 47:57 - 47:58

JM: Go to Chris.
2878916 47:59 - 48:02

CI: Well, I just want to echo something
2881825 48:02 - 48:05

that we've touched on a few times,
which is, it feels like
2885297 48:05 - 48:09

solar system exploration,
study of planets nearby,
2889275 48:09 - 48:11

is a mature subject
2890733 48:11 - 48:14

that we've learned most
of what we might want to learn,
2893747 48:14 - 48:16

and that just simply isn't the case.
2895627 48:16 - 48:18

Even with our close neighbour Mars,
2897533 48:18 - 48:20

there're just a ton
of questions and mysteries.
2899970 48:20 - 48:22

And when we get to all those others,
2901697 48:22 - 48:24

the best guest is there're probably
2903562 48:24 - 48:26

a dozen habitable spots
in the solar system,
2905741 48:26 - 48:28

mostly in the outer solar sysem.
2907879 48:28 - 48:30

And we're almost
completely ignorant of those.
2909980 48:30 - 48:33

And so when it comes to going
to Titan or Europa
2912600 48:33 - 48:35

or these really fascinating destinations,
2915468 48:35 - 48:39

our level of ignorance
is still almost complete.
2918722 48:39 - 48:42

So it's still early days, actually,
for solar system exploration,
¶
2922470 48:42 - 48:45

and especially in the context of biology,
2925300 48:45 - 48:48

and where we might find it
in the universe.
2929935 48:50 - 48:53

NS: And if I could just step back
for a broad perspective,
2933743 48:54 - 48:56

Carl Sagan said,
2935814 48:56 - 48:58

"There's one generation that gets
2937952 48:58 - 49:01

"to experience this transition of planets
2940818 49:01 - 49:04

"as points of light,
to worlds in their own right".
2943849 49:04 - 49:07

And men are ever getting a close look
2947357 49:07 - 49:11

at these worlds with the latest
generation of spacecraft.
2951148 49:11 - 49:14

My brother's a political scientist,
2953893 49:14 - 49:16

and he once said to me that
2956020 49:16 - 49:19

"Everything that I said
is going to be forgotten
2959222 49:19 - 49:21

"in decades or 100 years,
2960984 49:21 - 49:26

"but this transition of humans
becoming spacefaring,
2965750 49:26 - 49:29

"this is going to be remembered
for 1000 years."
2969595 49:30 - 49:32

People will talk about this age,
2971847 49:32 - 49:34

and so for all of us
2974111 49:34 - 49:38

to appreciate this incredible time
that we live in,
2978139 49:38 - 49:41

and this opportunity
that we are given to participate.
2982210 49:42 - 49:44

Get everybody onboard.
2983783 49:44 - 49:45

Spread the word.
2985346 49:45 - 49:49

This is a real halmark of the age
2988883 49:49 - 49:51

that we have the privilege of living in.
2991304 49:51 - 49:54

JM: That's amazing. My final question:
2994851 49:55 - 49:57

When are we sending humans to Mars?
2998097 49:58 - 50:03

NS: When I was growing up
I said I wanted to go to Mars
3002679 50:03 - 50:05

and raise chickens to find out
3004750 50:05 - 50:07

if they would grow larger in low-gravity.
3008089 50:08 - 50:13

It's become clear to me
that I won't have that opportunity.
3012659 50:13 - 50:17

I would love it, if one of my kids
had that chance.
3017366 50:17 - 50:20

I sure hope it doesn't go down
to the generation beyond that.
3020721 50:21 - 50:24

It's sometimes said that it's too expensive
3023648 50:24 - 50:26

to send humans to Mars,
3025500 50:26 - 50:29

but our nation has
apparently found the will
3028675 50:29 - 50:31

to spend that much money
on other projects
3031013 50:31 - 50:34

that I think, will not be remembered
in a thousand years,
3034159 50:34 - 50:39

and I would love for this effort
to change the focus of our nation,
3039090 50:39 - 50:41

and even the efforts of the world
3041176 50:41 - 50:43

to make that next grand step
3042973 50:43 - 50:46

because I think that it is human destiny.
3046022 50:46 - 50:50

Robots lead the way, but humans
can and must follow.
3050691 50:51 - 50:55

CI: And to answer your question directly
we're talking 20+ years.
3054889 50:55 - 50:57

And then again I think the private sector
3056896 50:57 - 51:00

is already starting to step up
and make ideas.
3059758 51:00 - 51:02

For instance,
there's a well-publisized idea
3062136 51:02 - 51:05

for a one-way trip,
which'd obviously save some money.
3064817 51:05 - 51:07

NASA first was outed on having
3066701 51:07 - 51:09

a very similar idea
sitting on their shelf,
3069267 51:09 - 51:12

but it's not good PR for NASA
3072751 51:13 - 51:15

to send astronauts of to die on a…
3075245 51:15 - 51:18

NS: Yeah, I actually think that the space frontier
3078311 51:18 - 51:21

will be conquered by humans,
3080633 51:21 - 51:23

when humans are allowed
to take the same kinds of risks
3083426 51:23 - 51:27

that they took when moving
to Colorado and California,
3087248 51:27 - 51:29

when coming to the American west.
3089110 51:29 - 51:31

Individuals took risks.
3090914 51:31 - 51:33

Many of them lost their lives doing it
3092884 51:33 - 51:37

but the way that they opened
for the rest of us
3097362 51:37 - 51:39

we'll remember forever.
3099620 51:40 - 51:42

I think it's like Chris says.
3101563 51:42 - 51:45

It's going to be the private sector
and individuals taking risks
3104531 51:45 - 51:48

that will allow us to cross that frontier.
3107725 51:48 - 51:51

IC: And if you want to evoke
the multi-generational future,
3111214 51:51 - 51:55

I recommend Kim Stanley Robinson's
Mars trilogy,
3115077 51:55 - 51:57

Mars: Red, Green, and Blue.
3116737 51:57 - 52:00

Amazing evocations,
not just of people on Mars,
3120436 52:00 - 52:03

but of the geology
and the atmosphere, and so on.
3123344 52:03 - 52:05

They are mesmerizing books.
3125055 52:05 - 52:07

JM: Thanks for the book recommendation
3127441 52:07 - 52:10

because that's one of my platforms.
3130057 52:10 - 52:12

I love to get people to read.
3133048 52:13 - 52:17

Thank you gentlemen for your input today.
3137443 52:17 - 52:20

And thanks to the MAVEN team.
3139698 52:20 - 52:22

We will wait for the anticipated launch.
3142367 52:22 - 52:24

But thank you guys for a project
3144211 52:24 - 52:27

that's on budget, or under budget,
3147111 52:27 - 52:29

and on time, or under time,
3148889 52:29 - 52:31

and you guys are just meeting
all these hallmarks
3151223 52:31 - 52:33

and making people happy.
3153282 52:33 - 52:35

They'll want to hire you again
3155366 52:35 - 52:38

NS: That's right. And let's go answer
some more big questions.
3158909 52:39 - 52:41

JM: Well, thank you very much,
3160694 52:41 - 52:43

all of you out there
in the audience for joining us
3163070 52:43 - 52:47

for this very enlightening
discussion about MAVEN.
3167068 52:47 - 52:51

And don't forget, we're looking out
towards November 14th
3171039 52:51 - 52:54

for Chris Hatfield to join us.
3174074 52:54 - 52:56

So, if you didn't hear,
his book is out today.
3176516 52:57 - 52:59

So, if you want to pick that up
and join us here
3178783 52:59 - 53:02

November 14th at noon
for a Scientific American chat with Chris.
3182211 53:02 - 53:05

We'll get more of the human side
of space travel,
3184716 53:05 - 53:07

and today, of course,
we were just talking
3186713 53:07 - 53:09

about unmanned, or robotic, space travel.
3189239 53:09 - 53:12

So, thank you, Chris, and thank you, Nick
3192932 53:13 - 53:15

NS: So long, everybody.
3195250 53:15 - 53:16

CI: Bye.

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← The Mars MAVEN Mission and "Dreams of Other Worlds" author Chris Impey - SA Hangout #7

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