Dr Lez Henry on youth crime BBC News 24

- But, back now to that latest stabbing

at Leytonstone.

The 14-year-old boy Paul Erhohane

left dead and his friend
fighting for his life.

Doctor William Lez Henry
is a lecturer in Sociology

at Colemith's College part
of the University of London,

is here now.

Doctor Lez, everyone has a theory

about the rise in knife
crime, what's yours?

- I don't even necessarily think it's that

I've got a theory.

Because these are things
that we've been looking at

and we've been trying to
effect some kind of change

in so called Black-African
Caribbean communities for years.

What it is, is we've noticed
that there is an increase in,

for instance, a lot of young
people arming themselves

for protection.

So, for instance, Thursday gun.

We've been running some sessions

during the Easter Holiday.

Where we kind of raise
young people's awareness

about, you know, the actual
threat that they're under.

- What are they protecting
themselves from?

- Well, exactly.

Because usually, it's
almost that, you know

the greatest fear is fear itself.

- So because of a lot of the media hype,

a lot of the other hype that
surrounds, you know like,

this fashionable way of
protecting yourselves supposedly.

A lot of young people imagine the threat,

and they imagine the threat to be

greater than what it actually is.

So for instance, on
Thursday we did a session.

And the guy who ran the session,

a guy called "Brotha" had came,

ask, we he had about 15 young people.

He said to them,

"why do you carry knives,
if you carry knives?"

They said, "For protection".
- Yeah.

- "We said, how many of you
have actually been attacked?"

With regards to you know,
the gangs or the post code,

or affiliating yourselves
with the colors of dustbins,

which is what happens in London a lot.

And out of those 15, one
said he was attacked,

and it turned out He
was attacked in school.

- The toll that carrying guns is a sort of

Status Symbol, you flash
the little side piece

and people respect you more.

- Hmm.

- It's not like that with
knives though, is it?

- I think, I think that even
that is a very dangerous

thing to think about.

Because, in the sessions we
do with young people, we say,

"Is somebody actually respecting
you because they fear you,

"and how many of these
young people actually

walk around armed?"

And that's another kettle
of fish as well really.

Because, one of the things
about so called Gun Crime

is, yes a lot of them do carry
guns for fashion statements

but some of them do it
to protect what they see

as their "business".
- Mm.

And there's a difference,

But again, the threat is magnified

and in some ways it becomes reduced

to the so called black youths.

So most people,
- Mm.

- perceive, when they see
black youths in a hoodie,

or whatever they think,
oh you must be armed,

or he's carrying a knife, or whatever.

Because, one of the things
I'll point out to young people,

is being born in Britain a long time ago,

being raised through The Sixties,

the greatest fear for
me was being attacked

by the white Teddy Boys who
used to walk with flick knives,

until they're razors--
- Good Lord!

- Razors.

Mm.
- You see?

So, but what happens is,
I think that it is there,

but every now and again, a
certain groups gets turned into

like these little folk demons.

There's a little moral panick.

It get's blown apart of all proportion.

But the problem that we have nowadays,

is because there is so many
different ways to get that

information now.

You know, we've got even
like, News 24 didn't exist

probably 20 years ago or whatever.

So we've got all these different ways

of getting this threat out.

And in some ways, it's
magnified out of all proportion

and you will find that
a lot of young people

aren't even thinking about the
motion of arming themselves

to stave off a threat that
really isn't as "vast"

as it's made out to be.

- Just very briefly Doctor Lez,

are you making any progress
with these young people?

- Well we do in our small isolated ways,

but we have major problems
getting funding for the projects

that we do.

We have, for instance,

I've been trying to get a
research project off the ground,

trying to get some money through.

'Cause I'm a visit and research fellow

at Colesmith's College.

I've been trying to get
money for five years

to look up the links
between school exclusions

and gang affiliation.

And then two, it becomes
rogue like it probably is now.

It's almost impossible,

so things that we could
actually nip in the bud,

it becomes difficult for us to do it

because we don't always
have the resources.

The sessions that we do, you know,

people even usually donate
spaces or we use youth centers,

the few that are still open.

You know, doing things
on the Easter Holiday,

and putting these small sessions.

But it's about getting
that to a critical point

where it's in public consciousness

that people are actually
doing something against this.

And we will still have to fight
against the Pathologization

of the Black Male as well.

'Cause that is a major problem.

- [Interviewer] Well that's another story.

Lez, thank-you very
much for talking to us.

- Thank you.