ftp.acc.umu.se/.../Debians_Central_Role_in_the_Future_of_Software_Freedom.webm
-
Non sincronizzato[Bradley Kuhn] I have to be honest
I'm really honored to be here -
Non sincronizzatoI don't say that to just every conference
I care a lot about Debian -
Non sincronizzatoThis is my 3rd DebConf I've ever been to.
-
Non sincronizzatoThere have been a lot of them so I
obviously haven't been to that many -
Non sincronizzatoBut I was at DebConf1
-
Non sincronizzatoI just learned today that it was zero
based so that it wasn't the first DebConf -
Non sincronizzatowhich I should have known but didn't for
some reason. -
Non sincronizzatoI was at the 2nd DebConf by accident
somewhat because I was going to -
Non sincronizzatoLibre Software Meeting and just
happened to -
Non sincronizzatobook my flights so that I could be at
DebConf as well -
Non sincronizzatoI gave a regular track talk at DebConf10
about the GPL v3 -
Non sincronizzatobecause it was in New York City where I
was living at the time -
Non sincronizzatoHere I'm giving an invited speaker talk or
keynote or whatever else it is called here -
Non sincronizzatoThat really means a lot to me.
-
Non sincronizzatoI'm a fan of Debian, I'm a user of Debian.
-
Non sincronizzatoI don't actually consider myself part of
the Debian community -
Non sincronizzatobecause other than filing a few bugs
over the years -
Non sincronizzatoI haven't contributed all that much to
Debian but I've relied on it and used it -
Non sincronizzatoand been a fan of it for so long
that I really love your project. -
Non sincronizzatoSo I am really honored to be invited to
speak here -
Non sincronizzatoand I really believe that Debian is a
very special project for a lot of reasons. -
Non sincronizzatoFirst of all, it has thrived for longer
than almost any free software project -
Non sincronizzatoin existence in a lot of ways.
There are top 10 lists of projects that -
Non sincronizzatoDebian is certainly on as far as longevity
goes, maybe the top 5 -
Non sincronizzatoIt's governance is one of the few
democratically elected and -
Non sincronizzatodemocratically controlled
governance processes in free software -
Non sincronizzatoEveryone is a fan of talking about this
'benevolent dictator' stuff -
Non sincronizzatowhich I think is really horrible
The fact that somebody would call -
Non sincronizzatothemselves a 'self appointed benevolent
dictator for life' is really disturbing. -
Non sincronizzatoYou are democratic.
-
Non sincronizzatoYou elect your leadership.
-
Non sincronizzatoYou have referendums on major issues
that everyone can vote on. -
Non sincronizzatoThat is amazingly rare, impressive
and important for free software. -
Non sincronizzatoThe other thing that really impresses me,
-
Non sincronizzatoin particular being somebody from the
non-profit world, -
Non sincronizzatois that Debian has been staunchly
non-commercial for it's entire existence. -
Non sincronizzatoOf course I don't mean that Debian
can't be used in commercial settings. -
Non sincronizzatoDFSG free means that things can be put
into commercial products. -
Non sincronizzatoWhat I mean is that the project itself has
always been non-commercial, -
Non sincronizzatomeaning that the people that work on it
are volunteering, -
Non sincronizzatoand, even if their employers are paying
them to work on it, -
Non sincronizzatothey are part of a community and not
doing their work inside Debian as -
Non sincronizzatoofficially part of some
commercial activity. -
Non sincronizzatoMost free software projects these days
are controlled by -
Non sincronizzatosome commercial entity or another.
-
Non sincronizzatoDebian is not.
-
Non sincronizzatoI was at Debconf1 which was really
exciting for me. -
Non sincronizzatoI was a young executive director of
Free Software. -
Non sincronizzatoI showed this picture to Karen Sandler who
I work with and said how different I look. -
Non sincronizzatoShe said I don't look different at all,
-
Non sincronizzatobut, speaking as the person that looks
at that face in the mirror every morning, -
Non sincronizzatothere are a lot more lines on my face
than there. -
Non sincronizzatoThat is a smooth looking baby face that I
had 14 years ago that I don't have anymore -
Non sincronizzatoI was pretty casual back then.
I'm not in short trousers any more. -
Non sincronizzatoIt's hard to see and you can see it in
some of the other photos that I was. -
Non sincronizzatoEven in this heat like this I haven't
worn short trousers in a very long time. -
Non sincronizzatoWhat's that? [bdale heckles]
-
Non sincronizzatoBdale, I was thinking about mentioning you
and now I have to because you are heckling -
Non sincronizzatome [laughter]. Bdale is the one adult
in the room who can dress like -
Non sincronizzatoeverybody else but I can't pull it off
-
Non sincronizzatoI respect Bdale that he can.
The tie-dye still works for him. -
Non sincronizzatoAnd I stopped wearing t-shirts years ago
at conferences -
Non sincronizzatoand here I'm sweating in my long sleeves
halfway between hacker and suit attire. -
Non sincronizzatoAnd there [in the photo] I'm talking to
Martin Michmayer -
Non sincronizzatoI'm going to do questions at the end Lars,
if that's ok. -
Non sincronizzatoI'm not good with questions because I
get off topic easy. -
Non sincronizzatoI left 17 minutes at the end for questions
which Bdale just took 3 of [laughter] -
Non sincronizzatoThere I'm talking to Martin Michlmayer
when I first met him. -
Non sincronizzatoA lot of things have changed since I
looked at this photo. -
Non sincronizzatoBut one thing that hasn't changed,
you see this face that Martin is making. -
Non sincronizzatoHe still makes that face at me every time
I talk to him, which sort of says like -
Non sincronizzato"You do not know what you are talking
about". That hasn't changed, which is good -
Non sincronizzato[laughter]. I'm glad he is laughing in the
back there. -
Non sincronizzatoSome things have stayed the same.
Martin still thinks I'm full of it. -
Non sincronizzatoAnd I probably am, so that's ok.
I like people to keep me honest. -
Non sincronizzatoOther than jokes, the thing that hasn't
really changed since I was first -
Non sincronizzatointroduced to the Debian community, in
person, back in 2001, -
Non sincronizzatois the ethos of this community is still
the same one that I remember -
Non sincronizzatoeven though a lot of the developers
have changed. -
Non sincronizzatoI talked to somebody who had never
even installed Debian when they were at -
Non sincronizzatoDebConf1. I talked to someone who was
12 years old at the time of DebConf1. -
Non sincronizzatoI find it impressive that what I call the
'morality of the hobbyist contributor' -
Non sincronizzatostill lives strongly in Debian.
-
Non sincronizzatoThe people in Debian want to do what is
right for other people - -
Non sincronizzatotheir users, co-developers,
co-contributors. -
Non sincronizzatoThey also volunteer to do that.
-
Non sincronizzatoAs I said before, that doesn't mean that
they aren't being paid to do their work. -
Non sincronizzatoIt's the classic free software thing: lots
of people get paid to write free software. -
Non sincronizzatoWhat I've seen recently, in many free
software projects, is that -
Non sincronizzatocompanies have used that. I think
OpenStack is one of the worst examples -
Non sincronizzatoof this. To control the project by hiring
lots of it's developers. -
Non sincronizzatoThey have this kindof pull over the
project. I think that a lot of people that -
Non sincronizzatowork at OpenStack would say they are
employers employee first and an -
Non sincronizzatoOpenStack contributor second.
-
Non sincronizzatoI don't know anyone in Debian who would
not say 'I am a Debian developer' first -
Non sincronizzatoand then I happen to be employed as a
second issue. -
Non sincronizzatoDebian is their first priority.
Their job is their second. -
Non sincronizzatoThat hobbyist culture of 'my volunteer
work matters more to me than -
Non sincronizzatowhat actually pays me for a living'
is the kind of mentality that I am such a -
Non sincronizzatofan of. I try to live that in my own work
as well. -
Non sincronizzatoI like interacting with the community.
I usually find conferences very stressful. -
Non sincronizzatoThis one I do not find as stressful
other than I'm standing in a room with a -
Non sincronizzatohuge number of people. Other than that
I don't find it stressful -
Non sincronizzatobecause this is the kind of community
that thinks that way. -
Non sincronizzatoI think a lot of it has to do with the
other structures you have set up around -
Non sincronizzatoyourselves. The idea of having charities
that you work with -
Non sincronizzatowhich you have chosen to do a multi
charity situation where you have lots -
Non sincronizzatoaround the world that you can interact
with. -
Non sincronizzatoOne of them was founded by a Debian
developer initially. -
Non sincronizzatoYou reach out to other partnerships or
charities as a non-commercial community -
Non sincronizzatoThat allows you to have an infrastructure
that you can rely on that helps -
Non sincronizzatoyou maintain that community.
I'm very glad that you do that. -
Non sincronizzatoI used to work for the FSF and am still on
the board of directors. -
Non sincronizzatoEarly in the project Debian was more or
less a GNU project for a while. -
Non sincronizzatoIt was part of the FSF. I know that
relationship has never been perfect -
Non sincronizzatosometimes rocky and sometimes better,
but the FSF saw this in Debian too -
Non sincronizzatovery early on. That it was a really
important way to begin the whole -
Non sincronizzatodistribution thing of free software and
that culture was a match with -
Non sincronizzatoFSF's culture.
-
Non sincronizzatoI know where the issues are and I'm
sure John is here to talk about them. -
Non sincronizzatoBut I think there is a lot of cultural
connect between FSF and Debian. -
Non sincronizzatoI'm a little obsessed about this quote.
I saw it in real time. -
Non sincronizzatoI was subscribed to comp.os.minux in Aug
of '91 when it was posted -
Non sincronizzatoPart of it was that when I started working
for the FSF I started thinking about it -
Non sincronizzatoand the FSF when I worked there had 7
employees and still has under 20 -
Non sincronizzatoThat's not big.
-
Non sincronizzatoSo I don't think of it as big and I guess
strictly speaking, -
Non sincronizzatosince the FSF is a very professional
organisation, and to take the -
Non sincronizzatostrict definition professional means you
get paid to do this thing, -
Non sincronizzatoyou do it for a living - yes, the FSF
staff are professionals -
Non sincronizzatoin all the ways you might use the word
professional, -
Non sincronizzatobut I don't think that's what Linus
was going for in this quote -
Non sincronizzatoI don't think he meant those normal things
about professional -
Non sincronizzatoI think what he was going for is he was
trying to create Linux back when he was
humble -
Non sincronizzatoBecause people forget Linus used to be
really humble. Once upon a time. -
Non sincronizzato[laughter]
-
Non sincronizzatoI don't know... ok. I think some of his
early posts were humble -
Non sincronizzatobut we can debate that I suppose.
-
Non sincronizzatoOne of the things that Linus understood
well was that he wanted to create -
Non sincronizzatoa project where individuals collaborated
together in their own capacity. -
Non sincronizzatoHe wanted a hobbyist kind of culture and
was interested in that kind of culture. -
Non sincronizzatoI think that what he got wrong was not
realising how important charities are -
Non sincronizzatoto that culture and I think Debian has
always got that right. -
Non sincronizzatoYou've always interacted with charities
in good ways. -
Non sincronizzatoI think you keep them at arms length,
which is OK and reasonable, but -
Non sincronizzatoyou've always seen the value,
always seen the connection between being -
Non sincronizzatoa non-commercial hobbyist controlled
project, very professional I think, but -
Non sincronizzatostill hobbyist controlled in a sense that
you are volunteers doing the right things -
Non sincronizzatofor everyone in your community.
-
Non sincronizzatoAt the same time reaching out to these
charities and letting them help you -
Non sincronizzatoget done what you need to get do in the
logistical world outside of your project. -
Non sincronizzatoWhat I've seen in other projects that
Debian has not suffered from -
Non sincronizzatois the politics of the projects have
bifurcated. -
Non sincronizzatoThere's the technical politics which is
the usual arguments about -
Non sincronizzatothis technology verses that technology
-
Non sincronizzatosay, systemd verses upstart, something
like that -
Non sincronizzatoand that, I think in almost every project
still remains under developer control. -
Non sincronizzatoPeople who are developers decide
technical decisions like that. -
Non sincronizzatoBut the political governance in most other
projects has been hijacked in my view. -
Non sincronizzatoBy various different groups, depending on
the project -
Non sincronizzatobut usually some mix of lawyers or
business type people who are somehow -
Non sincronizzatoin for profit companies or industry
associations, -
Non sincronizzatothat have taken over the political
governance. -
Non sincronizzatoThe reason they've succeeded in doing this
I think is because most developers -
Non sincronizzatocare deeply about the technical politics,
but not so much about the other politics. -
Non sincronizzatoThey want to make those decisions once
and leave them alone. -
Non sincronizzatoA lot of my work in Conservancy is to help
developers make those decisions right once -
Non sincronizzatoand then be able to leave them alone
without it having bite them later. -
Non sincronizzatoI think a lot of projects have faced that
situation, where the non technical -
Non sincronizzatopolitics of their projects are under the
control of people who are -
Non sincronizzatonot members of the community, not really.
-
Non sincronizzatoI think that has really happened to Linux.
-
Non sincronizzatoI think that the Linux non technical
politics are out of the hands of -
Non sincronizzatothe developers and it's a very sad thing,
from my point of view -
Non sincronizzatoI think the companies control those
politics -
Non sincronizzatoand they don't keep developers out
entirely, but they gate keep -
Non sincronizzatofrom letting certain developers into the
politics of what's really going on in the -
Non sincronizzatonon technical space.
-
Non sincronizzatoI've met many Linux developers who feel
disenfranchised. -
Non sincronizzatoIt's why Conservancy has a GPL enforcement
project for Linux. -
Non sincronizzatoBecause they've come to us to ask for
someone who has a charitable mission -
Non sincronizzatoto do the right thing for the public good,
as opposed to the what companies want. -
Non sincronizzatoI think that's what these charities serve.
-
Non sincronizzatoIf you look at any of these charities that
we have out there, -
Non sincronizzatoConservancy, Software in the Public
Interest, FSF, -
Non sincronizzatothey do things for hobbyist developers
that are the morally right thing to do -
Non sincronizzatobut are sometimes controversial
-
Non sincronizzatothat developers actually really need,
-
Non sincronizzatomaybe sometimes don't want to spend too
much time on -
Non sincronizzatobecause they're more interested in other
things, -
Non sincronizzatobut companies and trade associations don't
need them and in fact -
Non sincronizzatothey often oppose them.
-
Non sincronizzatoAs I said, we're doing at Conservancy the
GPL enforcement for Linux -
Non sincronizzatobecause it is not in the business interest
of the companies who invest in Linux -
Non sincronizzatoto see the GPL enforced.
-
Non sincronizzatoIn many cases they actually oppose it
being enforced at all. -
Non sincronizzatoWhich brings me to copyleft generally.
-
Non sincronizzatoMy last talk to all of you was at DebConf
10, -
Non sincronizzatowhere I told you about GPL v3 and how
wonderful it is and -
Non sincronizzatohow much I respected Debian's commitment
to copyleft. -
Non sincronizzatoNow that's not to say everything in the
archive is copyleft, I would guess that -
Non sincronizzatomost things in the archive aren't, as it
turns out. -
Non sincronizzatoBut there are many, many important things
in Debian's archive that are copylefted -
Non sincronizzatoand many Debian meta-projects that you
rely on every day as part of your -
Non sincronizzatodevelopment that you have chosen to
copyleft. -
Non sincronizzatoSo I see Debian as a strongly connected
project to the broader copyleft community -
Non sincronizzatowhich I am heavily involved in.
-
Non sincronizzatoExcessively involved in you might say.
-
Non sincronizzatoThe organisation I work for is funding
a lawsuit, here in Germany -
Non sincronizzatoagainst VMware for violating the GPL for
a very long time and refusing to comply. -
Non sincronizzatoChristoph Hellwig is the plaintiff. It is
in a Berlin court. -
Non sincronizzatoTill Jaeger is his lawyer and you have to
read the FAQ. -
Non sincronizzatoI am, admittedly, not as comfortable with
the German legal system as the US. -
Non sincronizzatoI am used to the US where everything is
public. -
Non sincronizzatoThe German legal system doesn't work
that way. -
Non sincronizzatoI respect the cultural difference and
therefore we put what we could in the FAQ -
Non sincronizzatoso you could go read it.
-
Non sincronizzatoSo if you were hoping to hear all about
the VMware lawsuit in this talk this is -
Non sincronizzatothe only slide that covers it, sorry to
say. -
Non sincronizzatoYou can load your browser and look at the
FAQ I guess. -
Non sincronizzatoThe interesting thing that I can talk
about is the aftermath in the politics in -
Non sincronizzatothe community that I think a lot of
people, even people in this room got wrong -
Non sincronizzatoabout what was going to happen after we
sued VMware. -
Non sincronizzatoI have myself been a little bit surprised
that the response by many for profit -
Non sincronizzatocompanies (in the back channels, this has
not been in press releases, obviously) -
Non sincronizzatohas been to attempt to eradicate copyleft
entirely, or at the very least -
Non sincronizzatostop its enforcement.
-
Non sincronizzatoAt this point, for anybody who wants to
make a strong commitment like Christoph, -
Non sincronizzatolike me, to spend a lot of time enforcing
GPL, it is an extremely, politically -
Non sincronizzatotreacherous decision.
-
Non sincronizzatoWe have people in our GPL enforcement
project for Linux at Conservancy who -
Non sincronizzatoinsist on anonymity because they are
terrified it will affect their ability to -
Non sincronizzatoget jobs, and other things if they're even
heard to be talking to people who do -
Non sincronizzatoenforcement.
-
Non sincronizzatoI think what's happened is that the people
who have always been against copyleft -
Non sincronizzatosubtly and quietly now see there's some
chinks in the armour. -
Non sincronizzatoThere are very few people still enforcing
the copyleft. -
Non sincronizzatoThe only two organisations doing it as
part of a charity are the FSF and -
Non sincronizzatoConservany.
-
Non sincronizzatoIt's a time for the sharks to circle and
see if they can finish off the rest. -
Non sincronizzatoThat's what I think is happening.
-
Non sincronizzatoNow, this matters to you.
-
Non sincronizzatoEven if you don't care that much about
copyleft, it matters. -
Non sincronizzatoUbuntu was violating your copyrights for
two years. -
Non sincronizzatoThey had a trademark policy that
contradicted the GPL. -
Non sincronizzatoIt's a violation of the GPL.
-
Non sincronizzatoThe Free Software Foundation and
Conservacy worked very, very hard for two -
Non sincronizzatoyears to get it resolved.
It's been resolved. -
Non sincronizzatoThe trademark policy, as it stands - you
can read the statements on both -
Non sincronizzatoConservancy and FSF's websites - is in
compliance with the GPL. -
Non sincronizzatoI'm glad that Canonical eventually did the
right thing. -
Non sincronizzatoHowever, you've got to read the
fine print. -
Non sincronizzatoBecause what they've done is they've said
"Well, by using this trump clause thing to -
Non sincronizzatocomply", it means that all the non
copylefted software (from Debian which of -
Non sincronizzatocourse then ends up in Ubuntu) is then
propitiatorized, effectively, when it goes -
Non sincronizzatointo Ubuntu, because all these additional
restrictions and terms in the trademark -
Non sincronizzatopolicy that are contradictory to copyleft,
the trump clause passes them out for -
Non sincronizzatocopyleft so you can't have those
contradicting copyleft, but they happily -
Non sincronizzatodon't contradict the two clause BSD
license, or the Apache software license or -
Non sincronizzatovarious other licenses.
-
Non sincronizzatoA lot is being proprietarized, now it's
totally permissible by the copyright
- Titolo:
- ftp.acc.umu.se/.../Debians_Central_Role_in_the_Future_of_Software_Freedom.webm
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
Debconf
- Progetto:
- 2015_debconf15
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