WEBVTT 00:00:34.155 --> 00:00:37.095 Hi, everybody! This is my small talk show 00:00:37.095 --> 00:00:40.045 about people who inspire me 00:00:40.045 --> 00:00:42.975 and people who motivate me to do smth 00:00:43.125 --> 00:00:46.085 So, today's guest is 00:00:46.085 --> 00:00:47.825 Kiki Febriyanti 00:00:48.765 --> 00:00:52.045 an independent filmmaker from Indonesia 00:00:52.185 --> 00:00:54.555 Hi, Kiki! How are you? 00:00:55.125 --> 00:00:56.805 Hi, I'm okay, how are you? 00:00:56.805 --> 00:00:57.935 I'm also okay 00:00:57.935 --> 00:00:59.895 I'm fine, thank you so much! 00:00:59.895 --> 00:01:02.475 Thank you so much for joining me today 00:01:02.685 --> 00:01:05.905 I suppose it's very important we have this conversation 00:01:05.905 --> 00:01:08.155 because I really want audience 00:01:08.155 --> 00:01:10.815 to know your way and your path 00:01:11.135 --> 00:01:14.015 and I also would like to ask you 00:01:14.015 --> 00:01:17.135 what it is to be an independent filmmaker 00:01:17.135 --> 00:01:20.535 today in this era, in this period 00:01:20.545 --> 00:01:23.075 but let's start from the beginning 00:01:23.075 --> 00:01:26.055 maybe you can tell us a little bit 00:01:26.055 --> 00:01:28.955 what urged your interest in filmmaking? 00:01:28.955 --> 00:01:30.345 How did you start? 00:01:31.375 --> 00:01:33.245 Well, it's long story 00:01:33.665 --> 00:01:36.725 haha but let's make it short 00:01:36.725 --> 00:01:39.745 because I have to be back to my childhood 00:01:40.345 --> 00:01:43.005 so, at the beginning 00:01:43.705 --> 00:01:46.445 at first actually I was inspired by 00:01:46.445 --> 00:01:49.835 best friend of my grandparents 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:53.640 and he was a photojournalist 00:01:55.400 --> 00:01:57.995 so he often showed me his works 00:01:57.995 --> 00:02:00.525 and then I was thinking okay 00:02:00.525 --> 00:02:03.500 I will become photojournalist too 00:02:03.500 --> 00:02:05.740 just like him 00:02:06.900 --> 00:02:10.140 also my family loved watching movies 00:02:10.215 --> 00:02:13.095 and my parents 00:02:13.095 --> 00:02:15.925 my grandma my parents 00:02:15.925 --> 00:02:17.905 they often took me to 00:02:18.305 --> 00:02:20.745 to watch movies in cinema 00:02:21.305 --> 00:02:23.645 just nearby my house 00:02:23.645 --> 00:02:27.145 we just took a walk 5 minutes and it's already there 00:02:27.955 --> 00:02:28.955 and then 00:02:29.405 --> 00:02:31.255 I think 00:02:31.605 --> 00:02:34.325 the guy who worked there as cleaner 00:02:34.325 --> 00:02:37.135 already got used to 00:02:37.135 --> 00:02:40.415 got used to me 00:02:40.565 --> 00:02:43.795 like in the cinema, so 00:02:43.795 --> 00:02:46.875 usually before the cinema opens 00:02:47.175 --> 00:02:49.555 he invited me 00:02:49.555 --> 00:02:51.375 to just play inside 00:02:53.665 --> 00:02:56.765 just to take a look at the posters 00:02:56.765 --> 00:02:58.765 of the movies 00:02:58.765 --> 00:03:00.135 and just sit 00:03:00.135 --> 00:03:03.255 inside of the cinema before 00:03:03.935 --> 00:03:05.145 there are 00:03:05.765 --> 00:03:08.795 another audience 00:03:08.795 --> 00:03:11.605 so that's how I was interested in film 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:14.835 so, it was from your very childhood 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:17.920 when you were just a kid 00:03:18.200 --> 00:03:21.240 and then in 2008 there was 00:03:21.245 --> 00:03:23.665 when I was in university there was 00:03:23.665 --> 00:03:26.765 documentary filmmaking workshop In-Docs 00:03:29.675 --> 00:03:32.095 it came to my university in Jember 00:03:32.095 --> 00:03:35.135 East Java. East Java? yeah 00:03:35.135 --> 00:03:36.225 and then 00:03:36.705 --> 00:03:39.735 I tried to join this event 00:03:39.735 --> 00:03:41.975 and then I was selected 00:03:41.975 --> 00:03:44.705 my story was selected to 00:03:44.705 --> 00:03:47.765 to receive scholarship to be produced 00:03:47.765 --> 00:03:48.765 and then 00:03:48.965 --> 00:03:51.495 that's how I started filmmaking 00:03:51.495 --> 00:03:53.235 so, in 2008 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:56.140 I made my first documentary film 00:03:56.400 --> 00:03:58.800 so, it was like 12 years ago 00:03:59.140 --> 00:04:01.540 yeah, yes 12 years ago 00:04:01.720 --> 00:04:04.240 What was your first film? What was it about? 00:04:07.115 --> 00:04:10.135 It was about two persons 00:04:12.675 --> 00:04:13.595 who 00:04:15.275 --> 00:04:18.215 they were labelized 00:04:18.215 --> 00:04:21.085 as they have 00:04:21.085 --> 00:04:22.565 mental illness 00:04:23.155 --> 00:04:24.815 and 00:04:24.815 --> 00:04:27.855 I made the story about them about their feelings 00:04:27.855 --> 00:04:28.855 about their life 00:04:32.205 --> 00:04:34.795 How they struggle to 00:04:34.795 --> 00:04:37.585 to be accepted in society 00:04:37.585 --> 00:04:40.725 in their family 00:04:40.725 --> 00:04:43.405 and their environment 00:04:43.555 --> 00:04:45.385 so, it was about 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:48.220 mental illness and 00:04:48.420 --> 00:04:50.700 it was about the place 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:52.860 about the asylum, yes, because 00:04:52.860 --> 00:04:56.160 I've watched your film I know a little bit the plot 00:04:56.200 --> 00:04:58.840 yes, at the beginning it opened 00:04:59.140 --> 00:05:02.540 the founder told me it was just 00:05:04.025 --> 00:05:06.395 the place for learning Koran 00:05:06.395 --> 00:05:09.285 like reading Koran, but then 00:05:09.905 --> 00:05:12.945 many people came just 00:05:13.515 --> 00:05:16.505 to shelter these people 00:05:17.595 --> 00:05:20.435 so it became this kind of place 00:05:21.565 --> 00:05:24.415 like shelter for people 00:05:24.415 --> 00:05:25.665 with mental problems 00:05:27.375 --> 00:05:29.235 okay so yeah 00:05:29.755 --> 00:05:32.345 How did you find this story? How did you find 00:05:32.345 --> 00:05:34.725 these people? How did you find your subjects? 00:05:36.875 --> 00:05:37.875 actually 00:05:39.025 --> 00:05:40.695 I already 00:05:41.885 --> 00:05:43.835 was kind of like friends 00:05:44.185 --> 00:05:46.905 with the founder 00:05:46.905 --> 00:05:49.075 of Islamic boarding house 00:05:49.075 --> 00:05:52.115 The Al Ghafur boarding house 00:05:52.155 --> 00:05:54.975 because my mom 00:05:54.975 --> 00:05:56.975 was working as teacher 00:05:57.185 --> 00:05:59.585 in the elementary school 00:05:59.585 --> 00:06:01.885 near the boarding house 00:06:01.885 --> 00:06:04.655 that's how I knew him 00:06:04.655 --> 00:06:07.515 and I often curious 00:06:08.035 --> 00:06:11.075 because these people 00:06:11.075 --> 00:06:13.465 these people who stay there 00:06:13.465 --> 00:06:15.355 people with mental illness 00:06:15.815 --> 00:06:18.945 what people said 00:06:18.945 --> 00:06:20.205 just freely walked 00:06:20.565 --> 00:06:21.995 freely 00:06:22.555 --> 00:06:24.645 communicated with people 00:06:24.985 --> 00:06:26.345 in neighbourhood 00:06:27.445 --> 00:06:30.215 so they are not like in asylum 00:06:30.215 --> 00:06:33.535 like we think 00:06:34.725 --> 00:06:37.505 inside of the room they cannot go outside 00:06:37.505 --> 00:06:40.205 on the contrary, they are 00:06:40.495 --> 00:06:42.865 they make interaction 00:06:42.865 --> 00:06:45.235 make interaction with locals there 00:06:45.315 --> 00:06:47.395 that's what interesting 00:06:47.795 --> 00:06:48.795 for me yeah 00:06:50.125 --> 00:06:53.235 but I mean that this topic is 00:06:53.235 --> 00:06:56.695 quite specific yes and it's 00:06:56.865 --> 00:06:57.775 huuuh yeah 00:06:57.775 --> 00:06:59.375 like at the beginning 00:06:59.375 --> 00:07:02.295 usually we think they are dangerous 00:07:02.565 --> 00:07:03.475 they are 00:07:03.475 --> 00:07:06.885 we need to avoid them or smth like that 00:07:06.885 --> 00:07:08.285 but what I 00:07:09.155 --> 00:07:12.545 always learned from my childhood like 00:07:13.575 --> 00:07:16.425 they're just like us, they're just 00:07:16.425 --> 00:07:18.095 no difference with me 00:07:19.055 --> 00:07:21.475 they can communicate with people, 00:07:21.475 --> 00:07:23.965 they can socialize 00:07:23.965 --> 00:07:27.005 they can work and I'm thinking 00:07:30.465 --> 00:07:32.155 How is their life 00:07:33.035 --> 00:07:34.565 actually? 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:38.020 facing the situation 00:07:38.020 --> 00:07:40.740 facing the society, facing their family 00:07:41.325 --> 00:07:44.345 it's interesting for me, it's just like 00:07:44.345 --> 00:07:47.255 how I see myself through 00:07:47.255 --> 00:07:50.045 through these people, through my subjects 00:07:50.045 --> 00:07:52.415 that's how and that's why 00:07:52.415 --> 00:07:53.915 I made this film 00:07:55.055 --> 00:07:57.985 How did your subjects react 00:07:57.985 --> 00:08:00.685 when they saw the camera? 00:08:00.685 --> 00:08:03.635 yeah actually it's funny thing 00:08:03.635 --> 00:08:07.005 yeah how the subject react to the camera 00:08:07.005 --> 00:08:09.155 in my case 00:08:10.015 --> 00:08:12.145 in that first film like 00:08:12.145 --> 00:08:14.540 the subject was 00:08:14.540 --> 00:08:17.595 I tried to make them like to get used to it 00:08:17.595 --> 00:08:18.635 with the camera 00:08:18.640 --> 00:08:20.680 so during the research I also brought 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:23.545 I brought camera 00:08:23.545 --> 00:08:26.545 so they kind of got used to it 00:08:26.545 --> 00:08:29.475 and they were like okay with this 00:08:29.475 --> 00:08:30.475 like on the contrary 00:08:30.865 --> 00:08:32.325 one of the crew 00:08:32.785 --> 00:08:34.985 that I brought to the location 00:08:36.065 --> 00:08:37.605 who 00:08:38.140 --> 00:08:41.820 supposedly was asked to record this 00:08:42.100 --> 00:08:43.760 because I was directing 00:08:43.760 --> 00:08:46.915 so I tried to communicate with the subject 00:08:46.915 --> 00:08:50.025 and he needed to record 00:08:50.025 --> 00:08:53.295 he cannot, he's like nervous 00:08:53.300 --> 00:08:55.460 so somehow 00:08:55.460 --> 00:08:57.740 what unexpected 00:08:57.760 --> 00:09:02.200 reaction was not from the subject 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:04.255 but from one of the crew 00:09:04.260 --> 00:09:05.740 yeah 00:09:05.740 --> 00:09:07.560 well actually this question 00:09:07.560 --> 00:09:09.960 always makes me wonder 00:09:09.980 --> 00:09:11.595 How do subjects 00:09:11.595 --> 00:09:13.685 any subjects react to the camera, yes? 00:09:13.685 --> 00:09:16.425 If we're talking about documentary filmmaking 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:20.640 that's why I'm always interested in that 00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:24.375 I'm really happy you made this film 00:09:24.375 --> 00:09:26.655 and it is open if I'm not mistaken? 00:09:26.655 --> 00:09:29.895 so, the audience can watch 00:09:29.900 --> 00:09:32.000 yes, it's in the website called 00:09:33.415 --> 00:09:36.600 cultureunplugged,com 00:09:38.380 --> 00:09:39.740 so we can put it below 00:09:39.740 --> 00:09:40.560 sure 00:09:41.215 --> 00:09:44.255 and if I'm not mistaken you were selected 00:09:44.260 --> 00:09:46.500 with this film at 00:09:46.500 --> 00:09:48.680 different film festivals 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:51.180 and you also attended 00:09:51.220 --> 00:09:53.100 STEPS International 00:09:53.105 --> 00:09:56.145 Film Festival of Human Rights 00:09:56.145 --> 00:09:59.025 In Ukraine, in Kharkiv. in Ukraine, yes 00:09:59.025 --> 00:10:01.200 in 2013, right? 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:03.700 2014, if I'm not mistaken 00:10:03.700 --> 00:10:05.680 it was long time ago 00:10:05.820 --> 00:10:08.900 no no no, it was in 2013, Ki 00:10:08.900 --> 00:10:10.595 ahhhh okay 00:10:10.595 --> 00:10:13.675 right? it was in 2013 00:10:13.675 --> 00:10:15.035 yes yes 00:10:16.485 --> 00:10:19.075 You received the award 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:21.700 within that festival 00:10:21.820 --> 00:10:24.460 you received an award for being 00:10:24.500 --> 00:10:26.940 the best documentary filmmaker 00:10:27.140 --> 00:10:29.920 and it was exactly with the film 00:10:29.920 --> 00:10:33.740 Jangan bilang aku gila / Don't call me crazy 00:10:33.740 --> 00:10:34.520 yeah 00:10:35.180 --> 00:10:37.900 Maybe you can tell us a little bit about your experience 00:10:38.180 --> 00:10:40.500 My first festival was in India 00:10:40.500 --> 00:10:42.920 it was selected in India 00:10:42.980 --> 00:10:45.400 for me to screen 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:49.025 my film for the audience 00:10:49.025 --> 00:10:52.080 to wider audience it's already 00:10:54.215 --> 00:10:56.525 kind of like happiness yeah 00:10:56.875 --> 00:10:58.335 cause it is my goal 00:10:59.365 --> 00:11:01.235 to give awareness to 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:05.840 people about this situation 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:09.140 about my subject 00:11:09.140 --> 00:11:11.240 about the condition yeah 00:11:11.755 --> 00:11:14.775 and then when they 00:11:15.645 --> 00:11:18.655 I mean the festival gave me this award 00:11:18.655 --> 00:11:20.445 it's like a bonus 00:11:20.935 --> 00:11:23.615 because for me it's already happiness 00:11:23.615 --> 00:11:26.655 that people know the condition there 00:11:27.245 --> 00:11:28.775 in my hometown 00:11:29.265 --> 00:11:32.475 with these people 00:11:32.660 --> 00:11:35.140 so, yeah it's like a bonus 00:11:35.140 --> 00:11:37.460 it's like an extra happiness 00:11:37.945 --> 00:11:39.205 plus 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:43.320 The Ambassador of Indonesia to Ukraine 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:45.700 also attended Festival 00:11:46.155 --> 00:11:48.765 and she and the stuff 00:11:48.765 --> 00:11:51.080 also were very supportive 00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:54.455 so yeah, I was very happy with that 00:11:54.460 --> 00:11:57.440 you were happy to share with the audience, right 00:11:57.440 --> 00:11:59.815 to share the story 00:11:59.820 --> 00:12:02.625 yes, I can understand you so well 00:12:02.625 --> 00:12:05.460 Can I ask you about your second film? 00:12:05.460 --> 00:12:07.640 which was also independent and it was 00:12:07.640 --> 00:12:09.560 "Yup, it's my body" 00:12:09.560 --> 00:12:11.420 yes yeah 00:12:11.420 --> 00:12:14.580 How did you choose the topic and the subject? 00:12:14.580 --> 00:12:17.380 maybe you can tell us a little bit about that film 00:12:17.940 --> 00:12:20.740 So, actually this 00:12:20.740 --> 00:12:23.880 the second film "Yup, it's my body" 00:12:23.880 --> 00:12:26.760 I made that it's like 00:12:26.760 --> 00:12:28.540 a diary 00:12:28.540 --> 00:12:30.580 because I was about 00:12:30.580 --> 00:12:32.980 to graduate from 00:12:32.980 --> 00:12:34.500 my university soon 00:12:34.820 --> 00:12:38.000 and all those years I stayed 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:40.355 with them with my subjects 00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:43.265 which were also my roommates 00:12:43.265 --> 00:12:45.240 my flatmates in boarding house 00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:50.445 and I noticed like some habit 00:12:50.445 --> 00:12:51.640 of us 00:12:51.640 --> 00:12:53.920 of all of us...like 00:12:53.920 --> 00:12:57.460 we always discussed about the body image 00:12:57.460 --> 00:13:00.340 I try to diet with this way I try to diet this way 00:13:00.340 --> 00:13:02.620 and It's like I asked them 00:13:02.620 --> 00:13:05.535 Why do you do this? What for? 00:13:05.535 --> 00:13:08.515 In my boarding house that time 00:13:08.515 --> 00:13:10.985 most of them tried to lose weight 00:13:11.580 --> 00:13:15.860 especially one of the closest friend 00:13:17.060 --> 00:13:18.900 her name is Sara 00:13:21.060 --> 00:13:24.360 she more often to share with me 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:26.760 about her life her way something like that 00:13:26.760 --> 00:13:30.140 cause we're like family in that boarding house 00:13:30.140 --> 00:13:32.820 so I tried to document that 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:39.100 as kind of like memorabilia 00:13:39.500 --> 00:13:41.975 so I recorded 00:13:41.975 --> 00:13:43.835 I started recording with 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:47.060 Mini DV 00:13:47.060 --> 00:13:49.540 so I used that to record 00:13:49.540 --> 00:13:51.900 at the beginning I used to record 00:13:51.900 --> 00:13:54.520 the activities and situation in my boarding house 00:13:54.520 --> 00:13:55.980 with that handycam 00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:58.040 and the cassette 00:13:58.040 --> 00:13:59.960 at first I was using 00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:01.820 actually recycled 00:14:01.820 --> 00:14:03.500 cassette 00:14:03.980 --> 00:14:05.740 so I didn't buy 00:14:05.745 --> 00:14:08.535 I got the cassette the mini DV 00:14:08.535 --> 00:14:11.715 from the recycled wedding shooting 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:14.280 and one of my friend 00:14:15.700 --> 00:14:19.120 he was a journalist in television 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:23.560 so the cassette that he already digitize 00:14:23.560 --> 00:14:25.560 he gave me 00:14:25.560 --> 00:14:27.520 so I kind of like 00:14:27.520 --> 00:14:30.300 used that cassette again 00:14:31.060 --> 00:14:34.200 and then In-Docs somehow 00:14:35.160 --> 00:14:37.620 I read the announcement that 00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:39.920 In-Docs opened again scholarship 00:14:40.380 --> 00:14:42.600 like for masterclass 00:14:42.605 --> 00:14:45.305 so I applied with this story 00:14:45.305 --> 00:14:48.140 that actually I'd already recorded before 00:14:48.920 --> 00:14:51.880 so, I just went deeper with this topic 00:14:52.375 --> 00:14:55.205 about the body image 00:14:55.205 --> 00:14:58.655 Nowadays, the topic of body positivity 00:14:58.655 --> 00:15:01.325 became an agenda yes 00:15:01.325 --> 00:15:04.620 and your film "Yup, it's my body" is 2009? 00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:07.160 nine, nine yeah 00:15:07.165 --> 00:15:10.600 so it was like 11 years ago 00:15:10.760 --> 00:15:13.085 raising the topic of 00:15:13.085 --> 00:15:15.280 body positivity, yes 00:15:15.280 --> 00:15:17.980 so, you were ahead of the time I suppose 00:15:18.505 --> 00:15:19.505 right? 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:24.240 yeah, I suppose this kind of issue like 00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:28.265 yeah, it's so bad that for a long time 00:15:28.265 --> 00:15:30.075 still we need to 00:15:30.075 --> 00:15:32.795 we have still this kind of issue 00:15:34.305 --> 00:15:37.035 Kiki, it's very nice 00:15:37.040 --> 00:15:41.160 you lead the conversation into cassette way 00:15:41.160 --> 00:15:42.520 yes and into 00:15:42.905 --> 00:15:45.825 so, as I understand 00:15:45.825 --> 00:15:49.160 like 12 years ago you still could witness 00:15:49.160 --> 00:15:51.120 the pre-digital era 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:54.380 you still could work exactly with films maybe 00:15:54.380 --> 00:15:56.920 maybe you can tell us a little bit about that 00:15:57.525 --> 00:16:00.615 Do you see the difference in 00:16:00.615 --> 00:16:03.775 analog filmmaking and digital filmmaking 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:07.700 Actually it's kind of like 00:16:07.700 --> 00:16:09.640 quite different like 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:14.535 because when it was analog 00:16:14.540 --> 00:16:16.700 of course it cost a lot yeah 00:16:16.700 --> 00:16:18.680 if we talk about production 00:16:18.680 --> 00:16:21.580 because you need to buy cassette mini DV 00:16:21.580 --> 00:16:22.920 and one cassette is 00:16:24.760 --> 00:16:27.680 approximately like 20 000 IDR 00:16:27.680 --> 00:16:31.040 like 2 USD probably that time 00:16:31.040 --> 00:16:32.915 and then one cassette 00:16:32.915 --> 00:16:35.605 can record like 60 minutes 00:16:35.605 --> 00:16:38.880 like 1 hour approximately 00:16:38.880 --> 00:16:42.200 and now you can just have 00:16:42.205 --> 00:16:44.535 SD Card ...or 00:16:46.405 --> 00:16:49.525 just memory card, so all digital 00:16:49.525 --> 00:16:53.140 so, anytime you can just record whatever you want 00:16:53.140 --> 00:16:54.755 whatever you like 00:16:54.755 --> 00:16:56.635 and then you just transfer it to 00:16:57.005 --> 00:17:00.155 Harddisk or your computer 00:17:00.160 --> 00:17:02.340 and that's it, so 00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:05.880 and you can reuse it all the time 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:09.060 yeah, I mean, you just buy 00:17:09.340 --> 00:17:11.280 once or twice 00:17:11.280 --> 00:17:14.575 or just bring a couple, but you can repeat 00:17:14.580 --> 00:17:17.320 using this card like all the time 00:17:17.320 --> 00:17:19.080 no need to worry that 00:17:19.820 --> 00:17:21.680 in urgent situation 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:23.640 in such kind of situation 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:25.440 that you finish the cassette, right 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.340 yeah and also 00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:33.320 the thing is 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:36.013 I feel at least myself 00:17:36.020 --> 00:17:37.240 I feel like 00:17:37.460 --> 00:17:40.500 wth mini dV cassette 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:42.300 it's like 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.840 we trained to be more discipline 00:17:49.005 --> 00:17:51.155 I trained more discipline 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:53.540 with this because I need to 00:17:53.540 --> 00:17:56.860 more precisely think about the budget 00:17:56.860 --> 00:17:58.780 think about the time 00:18:00.700 --> 00:18:02.540 something like that 00:18:02.545 --> 00:18:03.545 I even... 00:18:03.875 --> 00:18:06.955 so, you have limitations, I mean like 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:10.300 with analog filmmaking you have some limitations 00:18:10.300 --> 00:18:12.460 yes, I have some limitations, but 00:18:12.460 --> 00:18:14.920 there are also kind of 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:17.980 like pros and cons, of course, yeah 00:18:18.380 --> 00:18:19.660 that time I 00:18:20.140 --> 00:18:23.075 I remember because I do everything by myself 00:18:23.080 --> 00:18:25.620 I put mark in the 00:18:25.620 --> 00:18:29.620 in the cassette because always like sticker there 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:34.375 during the editing and post-production 00:18:34.375 --> 00:18:36.685 I sat next to my 00:18:37.855 --> 00:18:38.935 editor 00:18:39.245 --> 00:18:42.045 I can remember precisely 00:18:42.045 --> 00:18:44.695 okay, this footage is 00:18:44.695 --> 00:18:47.435 in the cassette number this or this 00:18:47.435 --> 00:18:50.215 and the time code is approximately 00:18:50.215 --> 00:18:52.885 these kind of minutes, seconds 00:18:52.885 --> 00:18:56.095 maybe a little bit different yeah 00:18:56.625 --> 00:18:58.855 but I can remember like this 00:19:00.065 --> 00:19:02.935 yes, it's easier because we have 00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:06.440 yeah, I still save my mini DV cassette, so 00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:11.100 sometimes I try to remember 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:15.000 ohh, that time when I shot film I needed to 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:17.980 really remember these things 00:19:19.840 --> 00:19:23.360 yeah, that's about the production and then 00:19:23.580 --> 00:19:26.260 and then also later about distribution 00:19:26.265 --> 00:19:27.465 it was 00:19:27.860 --> 00:19:30.280 of course more expensive that time 00:19:30.280 --> 00:19:33.520 rather than now, it's much much cheaper 00:19:33.520 --> 00:19:36.800 because we can do it online yeah 00:19:36.840 --> 00:19:38.980 Kiki, I know also 00:19:38.980 --> 00:19:41.280 that you are working as a film crew 00:19:41.280 --> 00:19:42.455 in different projects 00:19:42.460 --> 00:19:44.520 sometimes you become director 00:19:44.520 --> 00:19:47.420 sometimes you become assistant of the director 00:19:48.215 --> 00:19:50.485 sometimes you become producer 00:19:50.485 --> 00:19:52.700 and you're working not only with documentaries 00:19:52.700 --> 00:19:54.800 but with different media 00:19:54.800 --> 00:19:56.800 maybe you can share with us 00:19:56.800 --> 00:19:59.500 a little bit about the shooting process 00:19:59.500 --> 00:20:01.100 the shooting process itself 00:20:01.100 --> 00:20:02.860 What is the shooting process for you? 00:20:07.285 --> 00:20:10.195 It's different, every production has 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.000 has different kind of type 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:16.460 I mean let's make it 00:20:18.700 --> 00:20:21.660 something more general like between 00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:24.680 documentary and non-documentary, for instance 00:20:25.800 --> 00:20:28.320 in non-documentary usually 00:20:28.320 --> 00:20:30.320 we have more crew 00:20:32.580 --> 00:20:34.500 non-documentary, fiction 00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:36.495 fiction or it can be 00:20:36.500 --> 00:20:38.940 advertisement or something like that 00:20:39.100 --> 00:20:40.900 anything that 00:20:42.760 --> 00:20:45.360 which is not documentary 00:20:45.360 --> 00:20:47.160 usually we 00:20:47.660 --> 00:20:49.860 at least in my situation, 00:20:49.860 --> 00:20:50.940 in my case 00:20:51.580 --> 00:20:52.860 I had 00:20:54.795 --> 00:20:57.835 experience of work with more crew 00:20:57.840 --> 00:21:00.400 for non-documentary 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:02.300 and for documentary I prefer 00:21:02.860 --> 00:21:04.560 at least so far 00:21:04.560 --> 00:21:05.895 I prefer to work 00:21:05.900 --> 00:21:08.720 with smaller crew 00:21:09.140 --> 00:21:12.315 and usually in documentary 00:21:12.315 --> 00:21:14.575 I can choose my own crew 00:21:14.575 --> 00:21:16.395 I prefer to choose my own crew 00:21:17.260 --> 00:21:19.840 whom I already know 00:21:19.840 --> 00:21:22.335 like we already know each other 00:21:22.340 --> 00:21:25.020 the pace, the character and everything 00:21:25.020 --> 00:21:27.440 because how we communicate 00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:30.160 we don't always agree with each other 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:31.680 but we already understand 00:21:32.075 --> 00:21:33.855 "the language" 00:21:34.265 --> 00:21:37.405 so, it's like in documentaries you prefer 00:21:37.405 --> 00:21:39.775 to have a chamber crew 00:21:39.775 --> 00:21:40.975 just like a couple 00:21:40.975 --> 00:21:42.525 yeah, like more intimacy 00:21:42.525 --> 00:21:45.645 yes yes yes, I understand 00:21:45.645 --> 00:21:48.320 okay, Kiki and what is 00:21:48.320 --> 00:21:50.855 because you know in Facebook and everywhere 00:21:50.855 --> 00:21:53.225 I'm following these groups 00:21:53.225 --> 00:21:55.465 about filmmaking 00:21:55.925 --> 00:21:58.995 funny groups, I mean yes 00:21:58.995 --> 00:22:02.055 and a lot of people are saying that it is 00:22:02.165 --> 00:22:04.845 very very hard work 00:22:04.845 --> 00:22:07.835 you know that I also 00:22:07.835 --> 00:22:10.765 took part in some shootings 00:22:10.765 --> 00:22:11.765 and 00:22:11.845 --> 00:22:13.555 I remember 00:22:13.560 --> 00:22:16.320 It was a very big surprise for me 00:22:16.320 --> 00:22:18.280 when I came to the shooting location 00:22:18.835 --> 00:22:19.895 and 00:22:21.260 --> 00:22:25.060 everything ended like in 24 hours 00:22:25.060 --> 00:22:26.700 so I had 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:29.120 24 hours shooting day 00:22:30.005 --> 00:22:32.915 and it was a disaster for me 00:22:32.915 --> 00:22:36.015 somehow when you're in the shooting process 00:22:36.020 --> 00:22:38.400 you don't see the time flies 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:40.580 you don't see that, you don't feel that 00:22:40.580 --> 00:22:43.500 somehow it was really amazing for me 00:22:43.505 --> 00:22:46.485 and somehow I was really into that 00:22:46.485 --> 00:22:49.835 and I suppose if you're working in that field 00:22:49.835 --> 00:22:52.625 for already more than 10 years 00:22:52.625 --> 00:22:55.645 probably it also gets your attention 00:22:55.645 --> 00:22:58.700 and gets your interest in that 00:22:59.260 --> 00:23:03.015 maybe you can give advise to young filmmakers 00:23:03.015 --> 00:23:05.565 What is it to be in the shooting process? 00:23:05.815 --> 00:23:08.305 Do you like that? What is that? 00:23:09.840 --> 00:23:12.040 yes, if we talk about 00:23:12.040 --> 00:23:14.440 non-documentary, for instance 00:23:15.020 --> 00:23:18.075 there is actually always time 00:23:18.080 --> 00:23:21.375 we have call sheet, we have schedule 00:23:22.300 --> 00:23:24.860 like crew call is at this time 00:23:24.860 --> 00:23:26.960 for instance, 6 a.m. or 5 a.m 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:30.700 and then we gather and prepare and evrth 00:23:30.700 --> 00:23:32.540 and then 00:23:32.540 --> 00:23:35.960 we start shooting at 7 a.m. or smth like that 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:38.080 and we supposedly 00:23:38.080 --> 00:23:41.060 finish shooting at this time, for instance 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:44.320 in non-documentary, it's 00:23:44.325 --> 00:23:46.805 kind of like actually 00:23:46.805 --> 00:23:49.375 more precise about the time 00:23:49.375 --> 00:23:51.855 but in documentary we don't have 00:23:51.855 --> 00:23:55.025 we don't have this specific time 00:23:55.025 --> 00:23:58.700 we shoot based on our research actually 00:23:58.700 --> 00:24:00.180 but of course 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:06.320 we got used to it, we know 00:24:06.320 --> 00:24:08.900 ohh okay, my character usually 00:24:09.300 --> 00:24:13.040 wakes up at this time, usually this time 00:24:13.040 --> 00:24:15.495 she goes to school 00:24:15.495 --> 00:24:17.415 or at this time usually 00:24:17.415 --> 00:24:20.585 she goes to pray, e t.c 00:24:20.800 --> 00:24:23.520 but during the shooting it can be different 00:24:23.520 --> 00:24:24.840 changing 00:24:24.840 --> 00:24:27.080 sometimes changing totally 00:24:27.080 --> 00:24:30.220 so, that's how we adjust 00:24:30.600 --> 00:24:34.060 if there is unexpected moment 00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:37.040 in the middle of the night 00:24:37.040 --> 00:24:39.920 or very early in the morning 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:43.575 in documentary I feel that my brain 00:24:43.580 --> 00:24:45.920 always stand-by even 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.540 while I was sleeping I also feel 00:24:48.540 --> 00:24:51.580 like my brain is also working, you know 00:24:51.580 --> 00:24:52.460 yes yes 00:24:52.460 --> 00:24:56.040 like I need to be aware all the time during the 00:24:56.040 --> 00:24:57.900 documentary shooting 00:24:57.900 --> 00:24:59.240 because you are following the subject 00:24:59.245 --> 00:25:00.795 or the subjects 00:25:00.795 --> 00:25:03.615 because you are following your story 00:25:05.785 --> 00:25:08.365 many people think when I meet 00:25:08.655 --> 00:25:11.525 people, friends or family 00:25:11.525 --> 00:25:13.680 or just strangers 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:16.980 who knew that 00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:20.200 ohh you're working in film ohh it must be cool 00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:24.360 you travel a lot 00:25:25.380 --> 00:25:27.600 it will be like red carpet 00:25:27.600 --> 00:25:29.820 you met celebrities 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:32.920 must be you have nice 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:34.380 kind of photos 00:25:34.385 --> 00:25:36.385 for your 00:25:36.795 --> 00:25:39.685 social media like behind the camera 00:25:39.685 --> 00:25:42.145 holding clapper board 00:25:42.145 --> 00:25:45.595 or something like that yeah 00:25:46.060 --> 00:25:49.480 it is cute things about this 00:25:50.520 --> 00:25:53.460 but it's not only about that 00:25:53.465 --> 00:25:55.835 actually many things happen that 00:25:56.775 --> 00:25:59.685 because you need to love and 00:25:59.685 --> 00:26:00.685 have passion 00:26:00.895 --> 00:26:02.025 in it 00:26:03.685 --> 00:26:05.482 because it is not 00:26:05.482 --> 00:26:06.645 I would say 00:26:06.645 --> 00:26:09.375 it's not easy work, you know 00:26:09.800 --> 00:26:12.220 and for me it's not just work 00:26:12.220 --> 00:26:13.880 it's just not profession 00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:16.060 but it's part of life 00:26:16.060 --> 00:26:18.420 so, if you don't love it 00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:20.855 it's even harder 00:26:20.855 --> 00:26:22.245 probably yes 00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:26.800 honestly, I don't really know that 00:26:26.800 --> 00:26:28.820 we have like precise 00:26:30.045 --> 00:26:31.285 time schedule 00:26:31.285 --> 00:26:32.780 time working 00:26:32.780 --> 00:26:35.740 like, for instance, if people who work in office 00:26:35.745 --> 00:26:37.485 they have specific time like 9 to 5 00:26:37.485 --> 00:26:40.615 but in film we don't have this 00:26:40.860 --> 00:26:43.880 because sometimes we have to 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:47.100 catch some moment 00:26:47.100 --> 00:26:49.200 like we need to shoot 00:26:49.700 --> 00:26:53.040 sun goes down or sun goes up 00:26:53.040 --> 00:26:55.340 like sunrise, sunset 00:26:55.340 --> 00:26:57.840 for instance, yeah , just an example 00:26:57.840 --> 00:27:00.935 something that explicit 00:27:00.935 --> 00:27:03.855 that is easy to explain 00:27:04.245 --> 00:27:06.985 many things like that 00:27:06.985 --> 00:27:09.680 and I agree with you absolutely that 00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:13.240 if a person has no passion about that 00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:15.700 it's very hard 00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:18.940 because it is hard for people who have passion in that 00:27:18.980 --> 00:27:21.705 yes, who have passion in filmmaking 00:27:21.705 --> 00:27:25.000 and maybe you can tell us a little bit about 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.660 your independent way of post-production 00:27:31.180 --> 00:27:34.020 you go further to post-production 00:27:34.020 --> 00:27:36.500 post-production is editing 00:27:36.500 --> 00:27:38.660 and then an independent filmmaker 00:27:38.660 --> 00:27:40.280 needs to go to distribution 00:27:40.280 --> 00:27:42.415 so, what is your way? 00:27:42.415 --> 00:27:44.435 What is your treatment in these two positions? 00:27:48.175 --> 00:27:51.265 yeah it is different in every filmmaker 00:27:51.265 --> 00:27:54.765 they have different goals 00:27:56.605 --> 00:27:59.005 some of them not really prefer 00:27:59.005 --> 00:28:02.440 I know some people who don't want to distribute 00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:05.200 so, they made like 00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:09.380 They prefer not to screen in the festival, for instance 00:28:09.380 --> 00:28:11.740 but only for the community 00:28:13.120 --> 00:28:14.695 some of them only 00:28:14.695 --> 00:28:17.565 want to screen in the festival, but 00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:21.900 not online, for instance, if we talk about nowadays 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:25.480 but for me 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:29.440 if we talk in general 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:30.820 I want 00:28:31.300 --> 00:28:33.460 when I make films 00:28:33.460 --> 00:28:36.060 I want to show it to people 00:28:36.060 --> 00:28:38.000 to audience 00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:44.020 for independent filmmakers 00:28:44.020 --> 00:28:46.460 usually we don't have 00:28:47.760 --> 00:28:49.840 producer or 00:28:49.840 --> 00:28:52.560 we don't have special publicist 00:28:53.040 --> 00:28:55.745 or distributor 00:28:55.745 --> 00:28:58.895 we usually distribute our films 00:28:59.300 --> 00:29:01.900 by ourselves 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:06.440 so, that's what I do 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:07.980 Thank you 00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:10.340 How do you usually distribute? 00:29:10.340 --> 00:29:12.700 What kind of way do you use? 00:29:12.700 --> 00:29:13.880 I mean like 00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:15.840 I know there are a lot of platforms nowadays 00:29:15.845 --> 00:29:18.705 like Filmfreeway or smth else 00:29:18.705 --> 00:29:20.740 you can apply online 00:29:20.740 --> 00:29:23.040 maybe you can tell us a little bit about that 00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:25.440 actually it's 00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:29.660 very big difference if we talk about the past and now 00:29:29.660 --> 00:29:31.660 because in the past 00:29:37.220 --> 00:29:40.160 we need more cost 00:29:42.545 --> 00:29:45.305 to submit our film because we need to make copy 00:29:46.925 --> 00:29:49.925 of our film in mini DV or 00:29:49.925 --> 00:29:52.975 VCD yeah later we had VCD 00:29:52.980 --> 00:29:55.460 and then DVD 00:29:57.740 --> 00:29:59.980 we have to 00:30:00.560 --> 00:30:03.440 send a copy of our film to the festival 00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:07.500 through courier through post-office 00:30:07.500 --> 00:30:08.820 or something like that 00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:12.655 and if the festival 00:30:12.660 --> 00:30:14.660 is abroad, for instance 00:30:14.660 --> 00:30:17.320 of course, it cost extra 00:30:18.780 --> 00:30:21.815 to use the post services, right? 00:30:21.820 --> 00:30:23.440 yes yes 00:30:24.620 --> 00:30:27.900 and if they request our film 00:30:27.900 --> 00:30:31.740 usually they will cover the cost 00:30:31.740 --> 00:30:33.960 but if we submit 00:30:34.165 --> 00:30:35.465 our film 00:30:35.465 --> 00:30:39.020 it means the cost is on us 00:30:43.180 --> 00:30:45.740 Nowadays, it's already online 00:30:45.740 --> 00:30:49.980 that you, basically you don't need to pay anything 00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:52.571 there are a lot of film festivals 00:30:52.580 --> 00:30:54.600 that you don't need to pay 00:30:54.600 --> 00:30:56.580 for free, yes 00:30:56.585 --> 00:30:58.235 the submission is for free 00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:00.360 submission is for free 00:31:01.520 --> 00:31:04.700 you just need to upload your film 00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:08.215 through internet platform 00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:10.320 it's like maybe Dropbox, 00:31:10.320 --> 00:31:13.440 Wetransfer, Filmfreeway, Mega 00:31:14.780 --> 00:31:16.575 many things 00:31:16.575 --> 00:31:19.445 Filmfreeway, Filmdepot 00:31:19.445 --> 00:31:21.860 many many platforms nowadays 00:31:21.860 --> 00:31:24.880 and also because of this digital way 00:31:24.885 --> 00:31:26.905 also more and more 00:31:27.275 --> 00:31:30.085 maybe we cannot count 00:31:30.085 --> 00:31:33.560 like thousands millions film festivals 00:31:33.560 --> 00:31:35.820 as well that we don't know 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:38.680 and it gives more chance 00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:41.760 for us to try as well 00:31:41.760 --> 00:31:45.240 to distribute our film which is cheaper 00:31:45.600 --> 00:31:47.820 and perhaps easier as well 00:31:48.460 --> 00:31:51.715 How do you think, Kiki, is it easy and 00:31:54.500 --> 00:31:57.700 is it easy to be an independent filmmaker? 00:32:00.360 --> 00:32:02.880 How do independent filmmakers 00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:05.620 usually search for funds? 00:32:06.140 --> 00:32:08.475 because I know that funding films 00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:11.400 is not an easy way, yes 00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:12.440 yeah 00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:15.300 ahh yeah 00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:19.600 to make the film that is 00:32:19.600 --> 00:32:21.800 really your idea 00:32:21.800 --> 00:32:23.800 really you feel 00:32:24.740 --> 00:32:26.800 you really want to make 00:32:26.800 --> 00:32:28.960 this certain project 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:31.960 it's not easy because 00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:34.920 sometimes we apply or submit for some 00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:38.480 grant, or people, or organisation 00:32:41.105 --> 00:32:43.655 it's not easy because 00:32:43.660 --> 00:32:46.200 there are also tons of filmmakers 00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:48.320 who also apply to the same programme 00:32:48.320 --> 00:32:49.500 Exactly 00:32:51.855 --> 00:32:54.905 Sometimes we are not selected 00:32:54.975 --> 00:32:56.905 I believe that sometimes 00:32:56.905 --> 00:32:58.345 if we are not selected 00:32:58.345 --> 00:33:00.500 it doesn't mean that your film is bad 00:33:00.500 --> 00:33:02.520 or your project is not good 00:33:02.520 --> 00:33:05.295 sometimes it's about the taste as well 00:33:05.295 --> 00:33:07.965 Some people also do some business 00:33:07.965 --> 00:33:10.275 or do another job like 00:33:10.275 --> 00:33:13.005 and they save some money to 00:33:13.335 --> 00:33:16.375 to make film 00:33:16.380 --> 00:33:18.500 that they like 00:33:18.500 --> 00:33:22.080 I know there are some filmmakers who are farmers 00:33:22.080 --> 00:33:23.400 I know 00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:27.380 another filmmakers who are civil servants actually 00:33:27.380 --> 00:33:29.000 or they have another job 00:33:29.335 --> 00:33:32.345 or me, like I become 00:33:32.555 --> 00:33:36.045 I'm a freelancer as crew 00:33:36.425 --> 00:33:39.285 in any kind of department 00:33:39.285 --> 00:33:42.675 in film production in Jakarta 00:33:43.595 --> 00:33:46.635 I mean if you're really passionate 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:48.340 about film 00:33:48.340 --> 00:33:50.160 often sometimes people think 00:33:50.165 --> 00:33:52.965 ohh you work in film you must 00:33:53.545 --> 00:33:56.455 have a lot of money 00:33:59.180 --> 00:34:01.860 it can be yes or no 00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:06.060 sometimes the goals of working 00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:12.375 when we have money we try to 00:34:12.375 --> 00:34:14.705 to pay our rent first, to buy food 00:34:14.705 --> 00:34:16.720 like the basic things 00:34:16.720 --> 00:34:18.780 we try to provide ourselves 00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:21.080 Pyramid of Maslow, yes 00:34:21.080 --> 00:34:22.700 yeah 00:34:22.700 --> 00:34:26.140 but what, usually, at least me 00:34:26.145 --> 00:34:27.925 when I am at work 00:34:31.345 --> 00:34:34.635 or when I receive 00:34:35.265 --> 00:34:37.485 call for project or smth 00:34:37.485 --> 00:34:39.675 what came to my mind usually 00:34:39.680 --> 00:34:42.800 okay, I will save some money 00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:44.665 it means 00:34:44.665 --> 00:34:47.280 if they mention like this is the fee 00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:48.860 this is the budget 00:34:48.860 --> 00:34:50.440 so usually I think 00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:52.295 okay, so this is just enough 00:34:52.300 --> 00:34:54.560 for my food, for instance 00:34:54.560 --> 00:34:57.975 or this is just enough for my rent 00:34:57.975 --> 00:35:00.935 but what comes to my mind always 00:35:00.935 --> 00:35:03.915 okay, I need to save money for my 00:35:03.915 --> 00:35:06.875 my next project 00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:10.980 that's the first thing that comes to my mind 00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:14.540 to have even just a little bit 00:35:14.540 --> 00:35:17.060 even just like 50 000 IDR to save for 00:35:17.060 --> 00:35:20.200 your film, your next project 00:35:20.820 --> 00:35:23.700 okay, Kiki, so I understood that 00:35:23.700 --> 00:35:25.860 like a lot of independent artists 00:35:25.860 --> 00:35:28.000 and independent filmmakers 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:29.140 you are just trying to 00:35:29.140 --> 00:35:31.645 make money from your freelance job 00:35:31.645 --> 00:35:34.760 but somehow this freelance job turned out 00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:37.460 to be filmmaking in your case 00:35:38.120 --> 00:35:40.700 so, you are filmmaker 00:35:41.500 --> 00:35:43.320 filmmaking crew 00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:45.740 working for your own independent films 00:35:45.740 --> 00:35:46.815 yeah so it's like... 00:35:46.815 --> 00:35:48.175 but that's life, yes 00:35:48.175 --> 00:35:49.935 and I would like to ask you 00:35:49.935 --> 00:35:52.915 about your latest projects 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:54.900 one of them is 00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:57.640 documentary film "Calalai" 00:35:57.640 --> 00:35:59.433 yes, documentary film "Calalai" 00:35:59.433 --> 00:36:01.205 you can tell us a little bit about that 00:36:02.055 --> 00:36:05.125 so, my latest project 00:36:05.125 --> 00:36:07.775 one is documentary 00:36:09.540 --> 00:36:12.700 the title is "Calalai In-betweenness" 00:36:12.700 --> 00:36:15.775 it's about the 5th gender 00:36:17.125 --> 00:36:19.885 in Indonesia in Bugis culture 00:36:19.885 --> 00:36:22.935 in South Sulawesi island 00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:26.800 they believe in five genders 00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:31.060 which is written in La Galigo manuscript 00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:34.175 that humans consist of five genders 00:36:34.180 --> 00:36:36.880 male, female, bissu 00:36:37.720 --> 00:36:40.620 they are like shamans, like the priest 00:36:40.620 --> 00:36:42.160 and then calabai 00:36:42.160 --> 00:36:44.160 and calalai 00:36:44.160 --> 00:36:46.500 and I made about Calalai 00:36:47.740 --> 00:36:51.180 so, it's like they 00:36:52.300 --> 00:36:55.680 I mean the Bugis people they have their own system 00:36:55.680 --> 00:36:58.100 which is beyond 00:36:58.100 --> 00:37:00.300 like they are very great I think 00:37:01.105 --> 00:37:02.885 very interesting for me 00:37:03.685 --> 00:37:06.655 yes it is, yes it is 00:37:06.925 --> 00:37:09.985 I suppose it is also interesting for 00:37:09.985 --> 00:37:12.455 nowadays society, because 00:37:12.460 --> 00:37:13.860 the more 00:37:13.860 --> 00:37:19.160 like every day the agenda of different roles 00:37:19.700 --> 00:37:22.660 the society roles, yes 00:37:22.660 --> 00:37:23.640 and gender 00:37:23.640 --> 00:37:25.560 we discuss it... 00:37:25.560 --> 00:37:28.040 yeah, because nowadays also 00:37:29.780 --> 00:37:32.400 I mean not only now 00:37:35.140 --> 00:37:38.360 many men actually 00:37:38.500 --> 00:37:40.880 they become like 00:37:41.200 --> 00:37:43.480 work at home 00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:46.380 like taking care of the kid 00:37:46.380 --> 00:37:49.140 like become the father 00:37:49.140 --> 00:37:52.660 and they are not working in the office, for instance 00:37:53.140 --> 00:37:55.720 and the wife who is working in the office 00:37:55.720 --> 00:37:58.800 which is in some... society 00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:02.740 it's like strange or not common 00:38:03.180 --> 00:38:04.520 but for 00:38:05.215 --> 00:38:08.485 I mean, as long as I learn, 00:38:08.485 --> 00:38:11.425 thats' why I made this film 00:38:11.425 --> 00:38:14.180 in Bugis society it's okay 00:38:14.180 --> 00:38:16.980 or if women work in construction 00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:19.440 women become engineers, 00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:21.480 technicians or 00:38:21.980 --> 00:38:25.255 filmmakers, journalists, police 00:38:25.255 --> 00:38:28.275 police officers or smth like that 00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:30.780 or even president 00:38:32.040 --> 00:38:34.260 it is not smth like... 00:38:35.060 --> 00:38:37.260 strange 00:38:38.520 --> 00:38:41.580 for Bugis society 00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:44.620 I'm not Bugis but so far 00:38:44.625 --> 00:38:46.425 thats's what I learned about them 00:38:46.425 --> 00:38:49.100 so, Calalai is smth like that 00:38:51.020 --> 00:38:53.460 so, if you are 00:38:53.460 --> 00:38:56.260 biologically woman 00:38:56.460 --> 00:38:57.920 it's okay 00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:01.300 for instance, you now become filmmaker 00:39:02.120 --> 00:39:05.600 which some people consider this as men's world 00:39:05.600 --> 00:39:08.540 yes, a lot of professions in our world 00:39:08.540 --> 00:39:10.380 considered to be "men's" 00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:12.100 yes yes 00:39:13.240 --> 00:39:15.560 okay, Kiki and I also want to ask you 00:39:15.560 --> 00:39:17.720 about your latest project 00:39:17.720 --> 00:39:20.120 the film "Roti" that 00:39:20.725 --> 00:39:23.425 means 'bread" in English 00:39:23.585 --> 00:39:26.405 if I'm not mistaken, it is a 00:39:26.405 --> 00:39:29.485 microfilm, right? 00:39:29.485 --> 00:39:31.635 yes, the duration is only 00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:34.120 30 seconds 00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:38.820 it's a fiction, but based on a true story 00:39:39.080 --> 00:39:43.060 oh, but if it's based on a true story, don't tell us the story 00:39:43.060 --> 00:39:44.420 because it's only 30 secods 00:39:45.315 --> 00:39:47.695 so, don't spoil anything, yeah 00:39:48.160 --> 00:39:49.640 no spoilers 00:39:49.640 --> 00:39:50.980 yeah 00:39:50.980 --> 00:39:53.480 but it will be screened online 00:39:53.855 --> 00:39:56.305 actually already screened in 00:39:56.305 --> 00:39:58.120 film festival 00:39:58.120 --> 00:40:01.240 Feminist Film Festival in Berlin 00:40:01.680 --> 00:40:05.060 and during this Corona time they will screen again 00:40:05.060 --> 00:40:07.300 the selected films 00:40:07.620 --> 00:40:08.645 online 00:40:08.645 --> 00:40:11.620 okay, so maybe we can also give any link 00:40:11.620 --> 00:40:14.680 or information below the video 00:40:15.240 --> 00:40:17.680 okay, Kiki, I think I will 00:40:17.680 --> 00:40:19.515 try to finish our conversation 00:40:19.515 --> 00:40:21.965 even though it's very interesting 00:40:21.965 --> 00:40:24.705 and very useful to get all these 00:40:25.385 --> 00:40:26.505 stories from you 00:40:26.505 --> 00:40:28.440 What do you... 00:40:28.700 --> 00:40:31.340 Are you in the process of smth 00:40:31.340 --> 00:40:33.860 during these Coronavirus times? 00:40:34.020 --> 00:40:37.315 or smth like this quarantine? 00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:40.920 Do you have any plans any future projects? 00:40:41.700 --> 00:40:44.175 so, yeah, during this Corona time 00:40:44.175 --> 00:40:47.075 which is we're already in quarantine 00:40:47.080 --> 00:40:48.660 all of us 00:40:48.660 --> 00:40:51.780 perhaps, most of us in quarantine 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:56.300 I'm working on 00:40:56.875 --> 00:40:58.655 video project 00:40:59.420 --> 00:41:03.140 which is I'm doing it in documentary way 00:41:03.140 --> 00:41:05.195 in the treatment 00:41:05.195 --> 00:41:08.115 but the result will be like video art 00:41:08.115 --> 00:41:09.845 like experimental 00:41:12.865 --> 00:41:15.765 so, you like this moving images 00:41:15.765 --> 00:41:17.680 language, yes 00:41:17.680 --> 00:41:19.280 I actually love it so much as well 00:41:20.385 --> 00:41:22.265 yeah, I mean 00:41:23.395 --> 00:41:26.405 video, audio-visual I like 00:41:26.405 --> 00:41:30.820 I like audio-visual, I like video so much 00:41:33.460 --> 00:41:36.460 besides as maker I also 00:41:36.465 --> 00:41:39.425 enjoy it as audience 00:41:39.425 --> 00:41:42.605 I love to spend my time watching 00:41:43.645 --> 00:41:46.725 short short videos or films 00:41:46.785 --> 00:41:48.875 or I spend time in.. 00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:52.140 before the Corona time I liked to spend time 00:41:53.080 --> 00:41:56.440 just go to the cinema 00:41:56.440 --> 00:41:58.220 yes, yes 00:41:58.225 --> 00:41:59.755 I can clearly understand you 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:03.400 so, that's the language that you like to 00:42:03.400 --> 00:42:06.900 consume and that you like to produce, right? 00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:08.400 yeah yeah 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:09.420 okay, Kiki, 00:42:09.420 --> 00:42:12.300 thank you so much for having this conversation with me 00:42:12.300 --> 00:42:14.080 I'm really glad about that 00:42:14.600 --> 00:42:16.560 I hope we can meet again 00:42:16.560 --> 00:42:18.755 and discuss maybe some other topics 00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:20.840 and maybe we can discuss your next project 00:42:20.840 --> 00:42:22.480 when you're already done 00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:24.260 when this Coronavirus is done, yes 00:42:24.260 --> 00:42:25.420 hopefully 00:42:25.420 --> 00:42:26.940 hopefully, yeah 00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:29.340 Thank you so much for having me 00:42:29.340 --> 00:42:32.220 Thank you so much, Kiki, for sharing everything 00:42:33.725 --> 00:42:36.005 Sampai jumpa! ( See you!) 00:42:36.005 --> 00:42:38.040 until we meet again 00:42:39.620 --> 00:42:41.500 Bye bye! 00:42:44.740 --> 00:42:47.800 and now I need to end the meeting, yes 00:42:47.805 --> 00:42:49.485 you see this Coronavirus 00:42:49.485 --> 00:42:51.800 gives us different challenges 00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:53.180 awkwardness 00:42:53.180 --> 00:42:55.020 hahaha awkwardness 00:42:55.020 --> 00:42:57.360 it's okay, still recording I know 00:42:57.360 --> 00:42:59.880 because we've already said goodbye to each other 00:42:59.880 --> 00:43:01.020 but I need to find 00:43:01.020 --> 00:43:01.800 alright, okay 00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:03.740 the button of Ending the meeting 00:43:03.740 --> 00:43:05.440 I think I'm done 00:43:05.660 --> 00:43:06.660 thank you so much, bye bye 00:43:06.660 --> 00:43:08.660 thank you thank you 00:43:08.660 --> 00:43:09.940 Bye bye!