Hi, everybody! This is my small talk show
about people who inspire me
and people who motivate me to do smth
So, today's guest is
Kiki Febriyanti
an independent filmmaker from Indonesia
Hi, Kiki! How are you?
Hi, I'm okay, how are you?
I'm also okay
I'm fine, thank you so much!
Thank you so much for joining me today
I suppose it's very important we have this conversation
because I really want audience
to know your way and your path
and I also would like to ask you
what it is to be an independent filmmaker
today in this era, in this period
but let's start from the beginning
maybe you can tell us a little bit
what urged your interest in filmmaking?
How did you start?
Well, it's long story
haha but let's make it short
because I have to be back to my childhood
so, at the beginning
at first actually I was inspired by
best friend of my grandparents
and he was a photojournalist
so he often showed me his works
and then I was thinking okay
I will become photojournalist too
just like him
also my family loved watching movies
and my parents
my grandma my parents
they often took me to
to watch movies in cinema
just nearby my house
we just took a walk 5 minutes and it's already there
and then
I think
the guy who worked there as cleaner
already got used to
got used to me
like in the cinema, so
usually before the cinema opens
he invited me
to just play inside
just to take a look at the posters
of the movies
and just sit
inside of the cinema before
there are
another audience
so that's how I was interested in film
so, it was from your very childhood
when you were just a kid
and then in 2008 there was
when I was in university there was
documentary filmmaking workshop In-Docs
it came to my university in Jember
East Java. East Java? yeah
and then
I tried to join this event
and then I was selected
my story was selected to
to receive scholarship to be produced
and then
that's how I started filmmaking
so, in 2008
I made my first documentary film
so, it was like 12 years ago
yeah, yes 12 years ago
What was your first film? What was it about?
It was about two persons
who
they were labelized
as they have
mental illness
and
I made the story about them about their feelings
about their life
How they struggle to
to be accepted in society
in their family
and their environment
so, it was about
mental illness and
it was about the place
about the asylum, yes, because
I've watched your film I know a little bit the plot
yes, at the beginning it opened
the founder told me it was just
the place for learning Koran
like reading Koran, but then
many people came just
to shelter these people
so it became this kind of place
like shelter for people
with mental problems
okay so yeah
How did you find this story? How did you find
these people? How did you find your subjects?
actually
I already
was kind of like friends
with the founder
of Islamic boarding house
The Al Ghafur boarding house
because my mom
was working as teacher
in the elementary school
near the boarding house
that's how I knew him
and I often curious
because these people
these people who stay there
people with mental illness
what people said
just freely walked
freely
communicated with people
in neighbourhood
so they are not like in asylum
like we think
inside of the room they cannot go outside
on the contrary, they are
they make interaction
make interaction with locals there
that's what interesting
for me yeah
but I mean that this topic is
quite specific yes and it's
huuuh yeah
like at the beginning
usually we think they are dangerous
they are
we need to avoid them or smth like that
but what I
always learned from my childhood like
they're just like us, they're just
no difference with me
they can communicate with people,
they can socialize
they can work and I'm thinking
How is their life
actually?
facing the situation
facing the society, facing their family
it's interesting for me, it's just like
how I see myself through
through these people, through my subjects
that's how and that's why
I made this film
How did your subjects react
when they saw the camera?
yeah actually it's funny thing
yeah how the subject react to the camera
in my case
in that first film like
the subject was
I tried to make them like to get used to it
with the camera
so during the research I also brought
I brought camera
so they kind of got used to it
and they were like okay with this
like on the contrary
one of the crew
that I brought to the location
who
supposedly was asked to record this
because I was directing
so I tried to communicate with the subject
and he needed to record
he cannot, he's like nervous
so somehow
what unexpected
reaction was not from the subject
but from one of the crew
yeah
well actually this question
always makes me wonder
How do subjects
any subjects react to the camera, yes?
If we're talking about documentary filmmaking
that's why I'm always interested in that
I'm really happy you made this film
and it is open if I'm not mistaken?
so, the audience can watch
yes, it's in the website called
cultureunplugged,com
so we can put it below
sure
and if I'm not mistaken you were selected
with this film at
different film festivals
and you also attended
STEPS International
Film Festival of Human Rights
In Ukraine, in Kharkiv. in Ukraine, yes
in 2013, right?
2014, if I'm not mistaken
it was long time ago
no no no, it was in 2013, Ki
ahhhh okay
right? it was in 2013
yes yes
You received the award
within that festival
you received an award for being
the best documentary filmmaker
and it was exactly with the film
Jangan bilang aku gila / Don't call me crazy
yeah
Maybe you can tell us a little bit about your experience
My first festival was in India
it was selected in India
for me to screen
my film for the audience
to wider audience it's already
kind of like happiness yeah
cause it is my goal
to give awareness to
people about this situation
about my subject
about the condition yeah
and then when they
I mean the festival gave me this award
it's like a bonus
because for me it's already happiness
that people know the condition there
in my hometown
with these people
so, yeah it's like a bonus
it's like an extra happiness
plus
The Ambassador of Indonesia to Ukraine
also attended Festival
and she and the stuff
also were very supportive
so yeah, I was very happy with that
you were happy to share with the audience, right
to share the story
yes, I can understand you so well
Can I ask you about your second film?
which was also independent and it was
"Yup, it's my body"
yes yeah
How did you choose the topic and the subject?
maybe you can tell us a little bit about that film
So, actually this
the second film "Yup, it's my body"
I made that it's like
a diary
because I was about
to graduate from
my university soon
and all those years I stayed
with them with my subjects
which were also my roommates
my flatmates in boarding house
and I noticed like some habit
of us
of all of us...like
we always discussed about the body image
I try to diet with this way I try to diet this way
and It's like I asked them
Why do you do this? What for?
In my boarding house that time
most of them tried to lose weight
especially one of the closest friend
her name is Sara
she more often to share with me
about her life her way something like that
cause we're like family in that boarding house
so I tried to document that
as kind of like memorabilia
so I recorded
I started recording with
Mini DV
so I used that to record
at the beginning I used to record
the activities and situation in my boarding house
with that handycam
and the cassette
at first I was using
actually recycled
cassette
so I didn't buy
I got the cassette the mini DV
from the recycled wedding shooting
and one of my friend
he was a journalist in television
so the cassette that he already digitize
he gave me
so I kind of like
used that cassette again
and then In-Docs somehow
I read the announcement that
In-Docs opened again scholarship
like for masterclass
so I applied with this story
that actually I'd already recorded before
so, I just went deeper with this topic
about the body image
Nowadays, the topic of body positivity
became an agenda yes
and your film "Yup, it's my body" is 2009?
nine, nine yeah
so it was like 11 years ago
raising the topic of
body positivity, yes
so, you were ahead of the time I suppose
right?
yeah, I suppose this kind of issue like
yeah, it's so bad that for a long time
still we need to
we have still this kind of issue
Kiki, it's very nice
you lead the conversation into cassette way
yes and into
so, as I understand
like 12 years ago you still could witness
the pre-digital era
you still could work exactly with films maybe
maybe you can tell us a little bit about that
Do you see the difference in
analog filmmaking and digital filmmaking
Actually it's kind of like
quite different like
because when it was analog
of course it cost a lot yeah
if we talk about production
because you need to buy cassette mini DV
and one cassette is
approximately like 20 000 IDR
like 2 USD probably that time
and then one cassette
can record like 60 minutes
like 1 hour approximately
and now you can just have
SD Card ...or
just memory card, so all digital
so, anytime you can just record whatever you want
whatever you like
and then you just transfer it to
Harddisk or your computer
and that's it, so
and you can reuse it all the time
yeah, I mean, you just buy
once or twice
or just bring a couple, but you can repeat
using this card like all the time
no need to worry that
in urgent situation
in such kind of situation
that you finish the cassette, right
yeah and also
the thing is
I feel at least myself
I feel like
wth mini dV cassette
it's like
we trained to be more discipline
I trained more discipline
with this because I need to
more precisely think about the budget
think about the time
something like that
I even...
so, you have limitations, I mean like
with analog filmmaking you have some limitations
yes, I have some limitations, but
there are also kind of
like pros and cons, of course, yeah
that time I
I remember because I do everything by myself
I put mark in the
in the cassette because always like sticker there
during the editing and post-production
I sat next to my
editor
I can remember precisely
okay, this footage is
in the cassette number this or this
and the time code is approximately
these kind of minutes, seconds
maybe a little bit different yeah
but I can remember like this
yes, it's easier because we have
yeah, I still save my mini DV cassette, so
sometimes I try to remember
ohh, that time when I shot film I needed to
really remember these things
yeah, that's about the production and then
and then also later about distribution
it was
of course more expensive that time
rather than now, it's much much cheaper
because we can do it online yeah
Kiki, I know also
that you are working as a film crew
in different projects
sometimes you become director
sometimes you become assistant of the director
sometimes you become producer
and you're working not only with documentaries
but with different media
maybe you can share with us
a little bit about the shooting process
the shooting process itself
What is the shooting process for you?
It's different, every production has
has different kind of type
I mean let's make it
something more general like between
documentary and non-documentary, for instance
in non-documentary usually
we have more crew
non-documentary, fiction
fiction or it can be
advertisement or something like that
anything that
which is not documentary
usually we
at least in my situation,
in my case
I had
experience of work with more crew
for non-documentary
and for documentary I prefer
at least so far
I prefer to work
with smaller crew
and usually in documentary
I can choose my own crew
I prefer to choose my own crew
whom I already know
like we already know each other
the pace, the character and everything
because how we communicate
we don't always agree with each other
but we already understand
"the language"
so, it's like in documentaries you prefer
to have a chamber crew
just like a couple
yeah, like more intimacy
yes yes yes, I understand
okay, Kiki and what is
because you know in Facebook and everywhere
I'm following these groups
about filmmaking
funny groups, I mean yes
and a lot of people are saying that it is
very very hard work
you know that I also
took part in some shootings
and
I remember
It was a very big surprise for me
when I came to the shooting location
and
everything ended like in 24 hours
so I had
24 hours shooting day
and it was a disaster for me
somehow when you're in the shooting process
you don't see the time flies
you don't see that, you don't feel that
somehow it was really amazing for me
and somehow I was really into that
and I suppose if you're working in that field
for already more than 10 years
probably it also gets your attention
and gets your interest in that
maybe you can give advise to young filmmakers
What is it to be in the shooting process?
Do you like that? What is that?
yes, if we talk about
non-documentary, for instance
there is actually always time
we have call sheet, we have schedule
like crew call is at this time
for instance, 6 a.m. or 5 a.m
and then we gather and prepare and evrth
and then
we start shooting at 7 a.m. or smth like that
and we supposedly
finish shooting at this time, for instance
in non-documentary, it's
kind of like actually
more precise about the time
but in documentary we don't have
we don't have this specific time
we shoot based on our research actually
but of course
we got used to it, we know
ohh okay, my character usually
wakes up at this time, usually this time
she goes to school
or at this time usually
she goes to pray, e t.c
but during the shooting it can be different
changing
sometimes changing totally
so, that's how we adjust
if there is unexpected moment
in the middle of the night
or very early in the morning
in documentary I feel that my brain
always stand-by even
while I was sleeping I also feel
like my brain is also working, you know
yes yes
like I need to be aware all the time during the
documentary shooting
because you are following the subject
or the subjects
because you are following your story
many people think when I meet
people, friends or family
or just strangers
who knew that
ohh you're working in film ohh it must be cool
you travel a lot
it will be like red carpet
you met celebrities
must be you have nice
kind of photos
for your
social media like behind the camera
holding clapper board
or something like that yeah
it is cute things about this
but it's not only about that
actually many things happen that
because you need to love and
have passion
in it
because it is not
I would say
it's not easy work, you know
and for me it's not just work
it's just not profession
but it's part of life
so, if you don't love it
it's even harder
probably yes
honestly, I don't really know that
we have like precise
time schedule
time working
like, for instance, if people who work in office
they have specific time like 9 to 5
but in film we don't have this
because sometimes we have to
catch some moment
like we need to shoot
sun goes down or sun goes up
like sunrise, sunset
for instance, yeah , just an example
something that explicit
that is easy to explain
many things like that
and I agree with you absolutely that
if a person has no passion about that
it's very hard
because it is hard for people who have passion in that
yes, who have passion in filmmaking
and maybe you can tell us a little bit about
your independent way of post-production
you go further to post-production
post-production is editing
and then an independent filmmaker
needs to go to distribution
so, what is your way?
What is your treatment in these two positions?
yeah it is different in every filmmaker
they have different goals
some of them not really prefer
I know some people who don't want to distribute
so, they made like
They prefer not to screen in the festival, for instance
but only for the community
some of them only
want to screen in the festival, but
not online, for instance, if we talk about nowadays
but for me
if we talk in general
I want
when I make films
I want to show it to people
to audience
for independent filmmakers
usually we don't have
producer or
we don't have special publicist
or distributor
we usually distribute our films
by ourselves
so, that's what I do
Thank you
How do you usually distribute?
What kind of way do you use?
I mean like
I know there are a lot of platforms nowadays
like Filmfreeway or smth else
you can apply online
maybe you can tell us a little bit about that
actually it's
very big difference if we talk about the past and now
because in the past
we need more cost
to submit our film because we need to make copy
of our film in mini DV or
VCD yeah later we had VCD
and then DVD
we have to
send a copy of our film to the festival
through courier through post-office
or something like that
and if the festival
is abroad, for instance
of course, it cost extra
to use the post services, right?
yes yes
and if they request our film
usually they will cover the cost
but if we submit
our film
it means the cost is on us
Nowadays, it's already online
that you, basically you don't need to pay anything
there are a lot of film festivals
that you don't need to pay
for free, yes
the submission is for free
submission is for free
you just need to upload your film
through internet platform
it's like maybe Dropbox,
Wetransfer, Filmfreeway, Mega
many things
Filmfreeway, Filmdepot
many many platforms nowadays
and also because of this digital way
also more and more
maybe we cannot count
like thousands millions film festivals
as well that we don't know
and it gives more chance
for us to try as well
to distribute our film which is cheaper
and perhaps easier as well
How do you think, Kiki, is it easy and
is it easy to be an independent filmmaker?
How do independent filmmakers
usually search for funds?
because I know that funding films
is not an easy way, yes
yeah
ahh yeah
to make the film that is
really your idea
really you feel
you really want to make
this certain project
it's not easy because
sometimes we apply or submit for some
grant, or people, or organisation
it's not easy because
there are also tons of filmmakers
who also apply to the same programme
Exactly
Sometimes we are not selected
I believe that sometimes
if we are not selected
it doesn't mean that your film is bad
or your project is not good
sometimes it's about the taste as well
Some people also do some business
or do another job like
and they save some money to
to make film
that they like
I know there are some filmmakers who are farmers
I know
another filmmakers who are civil servants actually
or they have another job
or me, like I become
I'm a freelancer as crew
in any kind of department
in film production in Jakarta
I mean if you're really passionate
about film
often sometimes people think
ohh you work in film you must
have a lot of money
it can be yes or no
sometimes the goals of working
when we have money we try to
to pay our rent first, to buy food
like the basic things
we try to provide ourselves
Pyramid of Maslow, yes
yeah
but what, usually, at least me
when I am at work
or when I receive
call for project or smth
what came to my mind usually
okay, I will save some money
it means
if they mention like this is the fee
this is the budget
so usually I think
okay, so this is just enough
for my food, for instance
or this is just enough for my rent
but what comes to my mind always
okay, I need to save money for my
my next project
that's the first thing that comes to my mind
to have even just a little bit
even just like 50 000 IDR to save for
your film, your next project
okay, Kiki, so I understood that
like a lot of independent artists
and independent filmmakers
you are just trying to
make money from your freelance job
but somehow this freelance job turned out
to be filmmaking in your case
so, you are filmmaker
filmmaking crew
working for your own independent films
yeah so it's like...
but that's life, yes
and I would like to ask you
about your latest projects
one of them is
documentary film "Calalai"
yes, documentary film "Calalai"
you can tell us a little bit about that
so, my latest project
one is documentary
the title is "Calalai In-betweenness"
it's about the 5th gender
in Indonesia in Bugis culture
in South Sulawesi island
they believe in five genders
which is written in La Galigo manuscript
that humans consist of five genders
male, female, bissu
they are like shamans, like the priest
and then calabai
and calalai
and I made about Calalai
so, it's like they
I mean the Bugis people they have their own system
which is beyond
like they are very great I think
very interesting for me
yes it is, yes it is
I suppose it is also interesting for
nowadays society, because
the more
like every day the agenda of different roles
the society roles, yes
and gender
we discuss it...
yeah, because nowadays also
I mean not only now
many men actually
they become like
work at home
like taking care of the kid
like become the father
and they are not working in the office, for instance
and the wife who is working in the office
which is in some... society
it's like strange or not common
but for
I mean, as long as I learn,
thats' why I made this film
in Bugis society it's okay
or if women work in construction
women become engineers,
technicians or
filmmakers, journalists, police
police officers or smth like that
or even president
it is not smth like...
strange
for Bugis society
I'm not Bugis but so far
thats's what I learned about them
so, Calalai is smth like that
so, if you are
biologically woman
it's okay
for instance, you now become filmmaker
which some people consider this as men's world
yes, a lot of professions in our world
considered to be "men's"
yes yes
okay, Kiki and I also want to ask you
about your latest project
the film "Roti" that
means 'bread" in English
if I'm not mistaken, it is a
microfilm, right?
yes, the duration is only
30 seconds
it's a fiction, but based on a true story
oh, but if it's based on a true story, don't tell us the story
because it's only 30 secods
so, don't spoil anything, yeah
no spoilers
yeah
but it will be screened online
actually already screened in
film festival
Feminist Film Festival in Berlin
and during this Corona time they will screen again
the selected films
online
okay, so maybe we can also give any link
or information below the video
okay, Kiki, I think I will
try to finish our conversation
even though it's very interesting
and very useful to get all these
stories from you
What do you...
Are you in the process of smth
during these Coronavirus times?
or smth like this quarantine?
Do you have any plans any future projects?
so, yeah, during this Corona time
which is we're already in quarantine
all of us
perhaps, most of us in quarantine
I'm working on
video project
which is I'm doing it in documentary way
in the treatment
but the result will be like video art
like experimental
so, you like this moving images
language, yes
I actually love it so much as well
yeah, I mean
video, audio-visual I like
I like audio-visual, I like video so much
besides as maker I also
enjoy it as audience
I love to spend my time watching
short short videos or films
or I spend time in..
before the Corona time I liked to spend time
just go to the cinema
yes, yes
I can clearly understand you
so, that's the language that you like to
consume and that you like to produce, right?
yeah yeah
okay, Kiki,
thank you so much for having this conversation with me
I'm really glad about that
I hope we can meet again
and discuss maybe some other topics
and maybe we can discuss your next project
when you're already done
when this Coronavirus is done, yes
hopefully
hopefully, yeah
Thank you so much for having me
Thank you so much, Kiki, for sharing everything
Sampai jumpa! ( See you!)
until we meet again
Bye bye!
and now I need to end the meeting, yes
you see this Coronavirus
gives us different challenges
awkwardness
hahaha awkwardness
it's okay, still recording I know
because we've already said goodbye to each other
but I need to find
alright, okay
the button of Ending the meeting
I think I'm done
thank you so much, bye bye
thank you thank you
Bye bye!