Peter Gabriel: "Back to Front", Talks at Google

Peter Gabriel stops by Google to discuss his recent work, including the new "Back to Front" tour, celebrating the 25th Anniversary of "So." From the latest at Witness to his thoughts about bringing back the original "So" band, Peter covers a wide variety of subjects. This talk was recorded on October 2nd, 2012.

Peter Brian Gabriel is an English singer, musician, and songwriter who rose to fame as the lead vocalist and flautist of the progressive rock group Genesis. After leaving Genesis, Gabriel went on to a successful solo career. His 1986 album, So, is his most commercially successful, and the album's biggest hit, "Sledgehammer", won a record nine MTV Awards at the 1987 MTV Video Music Awards, and the song is the most played music video in the history of the station.

More recently, Gabriel has focused on producing and promoting world music and pioneering digital distribution methods for music. He has also been involved in various humanitarian efforts. Gabriel has won numerous music awards throughout his career, including three Brit Awards—winning Best British Male in 1987, six Grammy Awards, thirteen MTV Video Music Awards, and in 2007 he was honored as a BMI Icon at the 57th annual BMI London Awards for his "influence on generations of music makers." Gabriel was also awarded the Polar Music Prize in 2009, and was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as a member of Genesis in 2010.

(Talks at Google - Peter Gabriel -
October 2nd, 2012)

[Applause]

Hi there,

[Introducing] Peter Gabriel, Google -
Google, Peter Gabriel.

[Applause]

So this is another Talks at Google event
and we're very, very pleased

to welcome musician, artist and activist
Peter Gabriel today.

We are going to have the great chance
to ask him questions

about his current tour
and the 25th anniversary of "So"

which is going to be released
actually at the end of October,

on October 22nd,

and we'll have also some chance
for the audience to ask him questions as well.

So why don't we get started?

You 're here on tour,
in the middle of the tour.

And what was the story behind the tour?
How did it come to be?

[Peter Gabriel]
Well, there were a number of things,

I mean I have never really
done a retro tour before

and I was pretty resistant, you know.

I know Robert Plant quite well
and we were chiding each other

on who was going to succumb
to the big money first.

Anyway, I went to see the Beach Boys
do Pet Sounds

which I always used to love.

And that convinced me that
to see one of the records you enjoy

from start to finish
was an actually good thing.

And that coincided
with some nice offers,

so that was an easy decision.

I'm actually going to
take a sabbatical year

with my family.

We've got a teacher coming out with us

and so it helps underwrite
that sabbatical year as well.

There were a number of reasons but,

I decided to bring back the band
that originally toured that record

and so that's been fun
and we're actually having a great time.

We do the evening in three parts.

The first part is based on the idea
that the process is often as interesting

if not more interesting
than the final product.

So we start off with an unfinished song

and then we do sort of rehearsal mode
with the house lights on,

that's the starter.

Then the main course is a few songs,

more electronic
or electric versions of things

and then the last chunk,
if you can get through all that

you get your dessert
which is the "So" album.

So that's how it works.

[Interviewer]
Specifically about the "SO" album,

you're playing,
the actual tour is called "Back to front"

and that seems to be the sort of
the format you just discussed

but playing "So",
the track order that you have now

That wasn't the original track order,
correct?

Well, this is an interesting diversion
about technology,

because although I'm a big fan of vinyl

I was also a great fan of
the digital world

because suddenly we could get
more dynamics in the music

and there were restrictions
in the vinyl world.

For example, the track
"In your eyes"

I always wanted to go
at the end of the record

But it has a good bass line there.

To get a fat bass line
on a full vinyl record,

you can't put it near the end.

You have to have it nearer the beginning,

So, it went on the start of side two
just because there wasn't enough room

for the needle to vibrate
as it got close to the center.

so, then, when CDs came along,
I was able to take that track

and put it back on the end
where it always should have been.

And on this release that's coming up,
it's a couple of variations.

As I understand, there's the CD itself
rereleased and remastered

and that's the third time
you remastered that ...

Yes, as long as people keep buying it
we'll remaster it (audience laughs)

And then, it's going to be
a comprehensive boxed set

that's got both CDs,
material that hasn't been released yet

and also a DVD with some concert footage,
and you've been sitting on this,

this has been in the stores...

(Peter) Yeah, we'll throw
any old shit in there.

Hey, it was old, get it in.

No, but there were a couple of things
we were waiting for the right day,

You know, you always get more interested
in the latest thing

so we'd sort of forgotten about that.

Also we shot the film, the show,
25, 26 years ago

Scorcese had been producing

and he had got
this wonderful cinematographer doing it

and we hadn't realised quite what we had,
So we went back to the film,

I mean tons of film cans
had to be carefully resurrected

and then we took
all the data off the film

and then
had a much better resolution version

of that concert
that we had done previously.

(Interviewer) And the actual
production of "So"

and also some of the videos
documenting that...

Over what time period
did that actually happen?

From when you thought about
the album you did originally

to getting it out the door?

(Peter) So on this latest thing...?

(Interviewer) The original.

I think that just sort of happened
as things came up.

There wasn't really
a brillant master plan.

You know, when we finish this
then what else do we need to do?

We were trying film things,

I mean, again, if you have the opportunity
to have two gigs in the same place

then it makes filming a lot easier
'cause you can do the set up,

and all the mistakes you make
on the first day

you can try and sort out
on the second day.

And we did that in Greece as well.

So, when you're approaching songwriting,

maybe at the time
you're approaching songwriting,

With regards to "So",

did you have a list of songs
and then say, "OK, right,

I'm going to select
these musicians to start working with"

or were you writing
and recording at the same time?

I'm always writing lyrics
until the day it's released, really.

I'm slow with those,
but there were a few ideas.

In fact, I had forgotten this
but Manu and Tony said

that Sledgehammer was an afterthought.

There was a taxi,
waiting to take Manu back to Paris

and we had an hour left.

I think I said, I've got this new idea
that maybe we could just put a demo down

and that was it.

I mean we carried on working on it
cause it felt great,

but it was quite an after thought.

And then Sledgehammer
also took on a life of its own

when it came to the video
which you worked with Arvin on and others

My son, first, straightaway said,

"The chickens! That looks
just like Wallace and Grommit!"

How did that come to be?

Actually, the man who did the chickens was
the man who created Wallace and Grommit.

And I was working
with this brilliant director

Steven R. Johnson
and he brought in the Quay Brothers

who is a fantastic sort of
dark East European looking animation.

And I saw they've now got
a big thing at MOMA in New York.

And I bought an AARDman animation
who were from down the road in Bristol.

Steven and I had a couple of weeks
just bashing through ideas

and then we bought in the others.

And it was a really exciting
creative brainstorming.

That's always been one of the things
I most enjoy about what I do

is working with people
from different backgrounds,

often smarter than I am
and just cooking something up.

So that was a great experience,
but quite painful too

'cause we did everything
the old fashioned way

frame by frame.

So when you see a sky
moving across my face

that has been painted
frame by frame

and the skin gets very raw.

And when you're under glass
with a lot of raw fish,

on day one, that's fun, but day two ...
at least you put the blame on the fish.

And that video I think
is actually the most played video

ever on MTV.

I mean, granted,
they don't play

quite as many videos these days,
but still the fact...(laughter)

but that's a huge accomplishment.

Having been relatively young at that age,

It was so different
from anything that was out there.

And it set a standard for an experience

that was getting you
into the mind of the writer

and the artist in a different way.

An entertainment value that
wasn't just for the sake of entertainment

but also telling a story.

Yeah, I think that
what was great about videos then

is that there were
people who wanted to watch them

and there was a budget
and there were no rules.

So you could do
what the hell you wanted

and there was no one there
to say "No, this is the way we do it."

Back to songwriting, I want to ask

Mike Rutherford made the comment once
that you're a frustrated drummer.

You started as a drummer in school.

Do you think you think more rhythmically,
originally, about a song,

or do you think more melodically?

I think both. There are some things
that are just based on melody,

but groove is
what drove me into music.

I think drummers,
they seem to be in command

of this really loud thing
and it looks like a lot of fun.

And that's what I wanted to be.

I was very enthusiastic.
Not very good.

And it was fine
in the early days of Genesis

because we had guys
who were good solid drummers

but they weren't that creative.

Then when we got Phil,

unfortunately he was
a way better drummer than I was.

But I used to still have
some bits of my drum kit onstage

and I would find my bass drum
full of carpet.

Gradually these things
were getting reduced,

so that was a subtle way of saying
that maybe I wasn't the best timekeeper.

However, being a major drum fan

I worked with some of
the best drummers in the world, I think.

And one of those is Stewart Copeland
who is also a lousy timekeeper.

[Interviewer]
Just don't tell that to Stewqrt Copeland.

No, I've told him, he'll say it himself,
because he races.

But the energy he puts into his drumming
and the attack on that is fantastic.

He does that brilliantly.

[Interviewer] On that album
he played high-hat

Well, this is the thing;

I had so many wonderful drummers
I could cut out bits and pieces

and get a bit of a high-hat from Stewart,
a kick from Manu and whatever it was...

But I'm a bit obsessive
as you might guess from this.

The groove has to be right.

We work quite hard trying to find

grooves that aren't the regular ones
you're hearing on the radio.

[Interviewer] With having this band
back on stage together,

are there some moments
when you look around and it's déjà vu?

Yeah, and we all look exactly the same
as we did twenty-five years ago.

Actually, a couple of the guys do,
I wish I could say that.

It's a bit like family get-togethers,

because you end up with
the same bunch of folk

doing exactly the same thing
as you always did,

with all the pleasures and problems
that went along the first time.

So, it feels very familiar
but I'm enjoying it a lot.

[Interviewer] And as far as the way
in which the songs evolve

when you're on tour,

there's that section that's defined as
'let's play with these more'

but do you also come back
and rearrange the songs a little bit?

Are they the same songs

you started out with
at the beginning of the tour

that you wind up with at the end?

Well, we try to get them right
so we are tweaking,

every sound check
we're trying to find a few weaknesses

and nail them.

We never used to play
all those tracks together

partly because two of them
were a bitch to get right.

We couldn't get them working.

So I think we're
closing in on them anyway.

You do want to keep changing it.

However, I keep forgetting

because we did start off
rehearsing some other stuff as well.

Now we've got things
beginning to feel like a real show

and working properly,

then when you do change the numbers over

that means also
that you need to re-program the lights

and all that stuff.

I think we will be doing that,
getting some flexibility,

but gently.

[Interviewer] In a tour like this
I know that you've always

put a lot of energy and time
to make a concert a full experience,

not just 'OK, here's some nice lights
and here are the songs'

played the best they can be

but also the experience of the songs,
in a way.

How much time goes into
prepping for a tour like this?

It's a fair bit,
I've got some very smart people.

In fact, there was an idea,
originally 25-26 years ago

when I was just doing videos

and I saw the cameras on these booms
that were being manually operated.

I thought the way they moved
was really cool.

So we replaced the cameras with lights

and now we've got lights
with little cameras on them as well.

But they're still manually operated.

I'm working on another show after this
which will be more robotic, I think.

But this one, I'm really enjoying
the manual element.

It feels quite futuristic
and retro simultaneously.

[Interviewer] And speaking of robots,
you've always been

in Silicon-Valley-speak,
and early-adopter of technology,

with CDRoms