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Thank you, everyone to be here,

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sorry for the improvising and

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the impromptu condition

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of this press conference,

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as you also know,

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there is very very little, if any,

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representation of civil society in this eG8

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In last minute on Thursday,

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they threw in some foldable chairs for us,

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they improvised some freedom of expression panel

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just to say that our issues

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were represented after all.

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But what we saw yesterday

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was Nicolas Sarkozy addressing

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only CEOs and business actors,

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telling them You are the Internet,

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You are the revolution and

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You are doing everything.

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And you now have the responsibility

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to fight the pedonazis,

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the terrorists, and the copyright wars

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so this is something that disturbs us,

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I think, all of us, here.

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Maybe each of us will make

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a quick statement of 4 to 5 minutes

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let's say 4 minutes if we can do it

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We have fantastic people around here

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from Yochai Benkler of the Berkman Center

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to Jean-François Julliard of Reporters Sans Frontières

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to Susan, how would you define yourself?

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Susan Crawford, former ICANN board member.

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Professor Lawrence Lessig who doesn't need any

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introduction at all, and Jeff Jarvis.

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Maybe Susan, you can begin.

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The communique's already been drafted

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for this g8 summit,

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errr meeting, this e-g8 meeting.

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It's been leaked to the NYtimes

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which published this story this morning,

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explaining exactly what the communique would say

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The reason this press conference has been called is

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that civil society groups have joined together

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from around the world,

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to issue a very short and simple statement

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calling on the eG8 and in turn the G8

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to protect the open Internet

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to maintain the neutrality of the Internet,

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to establish the principles that encourage

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the free flow of the information

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All of us sitting up here today

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understand as do you out there

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that an open Internet is actually the basis

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for a democratic flourishing around the world

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that all government policies

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that hoped to encourage citizens

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to flourish including education,

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health, energy policy...

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every variety of policy

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that operates in the world today

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are all encouraged by the existence of an open Internet

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and that access to the Internet

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is fundamental to human beings around the world

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These are the most important policies

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that governments should be embracing :

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an open, fast and fair, and free Internet

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so it's a very simple reason for this conference.

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We wanna make sure that

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these other voices are heard

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even though the communique itself

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may already have been drafted.

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I call on my colleagues here,

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Mr Jarvis, Mr Lessig, Mr Benkler and

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Reporters Without Borders

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to amplify on these remarks.

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But it's really very simple :

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we feel these voices aren't being heard

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We really want to ensure that the voiceless,

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the future that hasn't been invited to this conference,

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is allowed to have its say as well.

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Thank you Suzan

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We have a few copies here

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of the civil society statement to the eG8 and G8.

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The signature list is not the latest one

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You can see groups such as Access Now

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who couldn't get a badge to enter here

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the Association for Progressive Communications

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I won’t name them all, but

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there is german Digitale Gesellschaft,

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the Electronic Frontier Foundation,

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the European EDRI and so on and so on…

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There is also this petition,

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that was organized by Access Now,

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that has been signed now by people

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from more than nineteen countries

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to reclaim exactly what was mentioned before

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which is all that is not at the eG8

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So, maybe we will hear now Jean-François,

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because he will be leaving for a workshop later on

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and yep : Reporters Without Borders.

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Yeah, thank you, I’m going to speak in French,

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I’m sorry for those who don’t understand French,

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but I will say the same during

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the next panel in a couple of minutes,

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but I would like to say a few words

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in French because there are many French reporters here.

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I am extremely disappointed by what is said here,

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in this meeting from the start

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because we gathered the top people concerned with

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the internet throughout the world

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the CEOs of the biggest companies

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those that made Internet’s

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extraordinary growth possible

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whereas there hasn’t been a single word

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concerning those who are suffering

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because of the Internet

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I think of the 126 people who are now in jail,

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126 bloggers NetCitizens, Internet users

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who are jailed in Iran, in China, in Libya, in Vietnam

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and in a whole lot of other countries,

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who are jailed only because they have used Internet

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I find this outrageous

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that no one had a thought for them yet,

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none of the leaders in the Internet sector

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who talked since the beginning of the meeting

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have had a thought for them

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It is good to want to promote Internet,

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but we should start with having a thought for those

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who are suffering from this.

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And I can also tell that if we need

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to make only one recommendation to the G8

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and the governments that compose the G8,

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it would be to put the defence

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of a Free internet before anything else.

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There is today one person in three in the world,

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one internet user in three,

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who doesn’t have access to a free internet.

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So before thinking of regulation,

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before thinking of even defending intellectual property,

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before thinking to promote

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economic transactions on the Internet,

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we need to focus on keeping Internet free

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Focus on allowing the Internet users,

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all around the world,

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wherever they might be,

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to keep accessing a free Internet,

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and to keep accessing the same Internet.

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So if we have to make only one recommendation,

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it’s this one,

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disregarding any other recommendation,

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the G8 governments need to make the defence

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of a Free internet their one absolute priority.

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Thank you Jean-François.

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It's very hard now to choose

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who between those impressive analysts

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will speak first

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Shall we cast a vote ?

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Professor Lessig, maybe ?

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Yes, so, I just spoke and I'll be very brief.

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It's surprising to come to France

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and find something so deeply American going on

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In the United States, for the last 30 years,

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we've been trapped in an ideology

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that says that we should regulate

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by getting business together

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and ask them what is good public policy.

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We've done that in the United States

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to our great detriment.

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The financial crisis brought about by deregulation

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pushed on the American government by

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financial interests who benefited

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and then brought the economy down

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And in every other area of Internet policy

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we see the same thing

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we have no broadband

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as Bankler's report for the Berkman Center demonstrates,

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we have no penetration,

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no effect of broadband in the United States

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because of a strong policy of deregulation

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that the American government bought,

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and it bought because the only people

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they cared to listen to were business

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So to come to France,

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and to see an event like this

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where the presumption of the President is

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« Get the biggest businesses together

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and ask them what the future

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of the internet should be » is astonishing

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it’s just...

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You know, I did a little bit of French philosophy,

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but I don’t remember the French philosopher

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who said : « Public policy is best devised

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by asking the businesses

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to draw up the public policy ».

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That doesn’t sound very French to me.

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So I’d love to come back to the Paris

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that I loved before,

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which is not the American version of Paris,

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but the French version of Paris

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by a reminder that they are more interests

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than the interest of business.

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Business is important,

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and in business there is a division between

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the incumbents and the innovators

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and we have to keep that division alive.

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But there is also the people

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who built the internet.

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They weren’t originally business,

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it was civil society, it was ISOC,

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it was ICANN... it was not ICANN, it was IETF

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but it was a bunch of people who just aren’t here

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so I agree with Susan,

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we need to find a way to remind the people here,

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that the people who are not here,

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who are just as important to the story as them.

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To avoid repeating

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the critical change produced by

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the digital network environment

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is the radical decentralization

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of the capacity to speak, to create,

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to innovate, to see together, to socialize,

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the radical distribution of the poor means

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of production, computations, communications,

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storage, sensing, capture, human sociality

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that which gets us together

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inside the experience,

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being there on the ground.

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That is true for the first time

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since the industrial revolution,

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that people can actually,

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with the things they own,

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capture the world and do something

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that is at the very core

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of the most advanced economies.

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Preserving that framework,

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preserving a framework that is open,

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free-flowing, flexible, adaptive to change

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and inviting so that one person's sacrifice

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in Sidi Bouzid can then be translated

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throughout the Arab world into

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a moment of mobilization

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That’s new, that’s what is critical.

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For over fifteen years now,

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we have seen two opposing camps

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around the question of internet policy.

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One camp is the camp of the 20th century incumbents,

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who are afraid that something will change

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who are afraid of the people rising to participate

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afraid of the outsiders innovating,

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and coming from the edges

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who aren't authorized by the incumbents to innovate

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who don’t have to come and say

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« Will you please implement this

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for me on your network? ».

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These are all the companies

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that we see now as great fifteen years ago

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were from the outside

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That’s where the source of innovation is

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And the other model has been

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« Let’s keep things open,

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let’s keep things flexible, let’s keep things flow. »

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And this opposition between those who say

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« It’s going too fast, slow it down,

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make it manageable, make it safe »

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and those who say

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« It’s extraordinary, it’s creative, let’s open this up,

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because we’re in a process of

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continuous experimentation,

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and adaptation, and learning.»

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This is an enormous learning moment.

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That opposition has been there for fifteen years

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and occasionally we’ve seen periods

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such as in the United States twelve years ago

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where the approach of shutting things down

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making Internet Service Providers

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have to look upon of what it is that the content

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of their producers, regulating on software

277
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,000
regulating new services

278
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,000
to make sure that they don't make too much

279
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,000
of a threat to the incumbent industries win.

280
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,000
Then there was a long period of lolling

281
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,000
in between where we understood

282
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,000
the centrality of the commons

283
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,500
where we understood the centrality of what's open

284
00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:36,500
and now what is baffling about this two days

285
00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:40,500
is the seeming resurgence of what we saw

286
00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:43,000
ten, twelve, fifteen years ago

287
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,000
as though we had learned nothing.

288
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,000
When people yesterday on the panel on IP

289
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:49,500
were talking about if we don't have

290
00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:51,000
strong intellectual property

291
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,500
the Internet will be just

292
00:12:52,500 --> 00:12:54,000
an empty set of tubes and boxes,

293
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,000
I heard that fifteen years ago, and maybe,

294
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,500
maybe then it was a plausible assumption.

295
00:13:00,500 --> 00:13:02,000
Today, it is laughable,

296
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,500
except that it seems to have the ear of power.

297
00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:08,000
So, I think that what's critical here,

298
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,500
is to understand is that there are pathways,

299
00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:11,500
like the Hargreaves Report from last week

300
00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:13,000
shows a pathway that says: No!

301
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,500
I don't have to lock things down,

302
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:17,000
I have to be very careful about

303
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,000
locking things down for IP

304
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,500
instead I need to explore ways

305
00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:24,000
to open and allow flows.

306
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,000
That's the critical opposition.

307
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,500
Achieving socially desirable

308
00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:30,500
and acceptable and legitimate goals

309
00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:34,500
while retaining an open fluid free Internet.

310
00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:39,000
Versus, being so scared of the new,

311
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,000
that you are willing to lock it down,

312
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,500
or to try to lock it down and to distort it.

313
00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:45,500
That's the opposition on which we all have to be

314
00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:48,500
-- whether it's about business, and innovation

315
00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:51,500
about social equality and access,

316
00:13:51,500 --> 00:13:54,000
or about democracy and participation

317
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,000
whether it's about liberty, equality or fraternity

318
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,000
-- we all have to be on the same side of the path

319
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:02,500
of retaining an open net

320
00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:06,000
Thank you. Yes.

321
00:14:07,004 --> 00:14:09,500
I find myself profoundly frightened

322
00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:11,000
in these two days

323
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:12,500
I'm frightened of those who are so

324
00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:15,500
frightened of change that they will try to stop it.

325
00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:18,000
The Internet is not governments,

326
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,500
I said to President Sarkozy yesterday,

327
00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:22,500
yet the government tries to act as if it is.

328
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:25,000
He said it was not clear,

329
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,000
he feels he has the authority to regulate it.

330
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,000
I tweeted this morning

331
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,500
that I felt rather like a native,

332
00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:32,500
to be so presumptuous,

333
00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:35,000
of the Americas or of Africa

334
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,000
when the colonist ships

335
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,000
would come in to civilize it

336
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,000
« We have nothing to fear »

337
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,500
As the CTO of the Verizon Administration

338
00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:45,000
in America calls it,

339
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,000
the Internet is « The Eighth Continent ».

340
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,500
It is a new land;

341
00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:50,000
it has not been colonized,

342
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,500
there is no flag from France

343
00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:54,500
or the US or the UK or anyone on it.

344
00:14:54,500 --> 00:14:56,000
It is ours.

345
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,500
So, to that extent

346
00:14:57,500 --> 00:15:00,000
I don't blame President Sarkozy

347
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,000
and Publicis at all for convening this meeting

348
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,000
because they are filling a vacuum

349
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,000
that we the people have left.

350
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,000
Then I think it is incumbent upon us,

351
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,000
the citizens of this 8th continent,

352
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,500
of this new land,

353
00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:15,000
to hold and convene our own meeting,

354
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,500
and our own discussion,

355
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:17,500
so we can invite,

356
00:15:17,500 --> 00:15:19,000
we should invite, the governments,

357
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,000
we should invite the companies.

358
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,500
But I'd rather this discussion

359
00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:23,500
was held at our table,

360
00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:25,500
rather then at government's table,

361
00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:27,500
which is what's happening here.

362
00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:30,000
So what does that discussion need to entail?

363
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,000
I don't think that we need to have

364
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,500
Constitution or a set of laws on the Internet.

365
00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:39,500
This... as my esteemed colleagues up here say,

366
00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:42,000
it is the very architecture of the Internet,

367
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,500
that is its best protection

368
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:45,500
that is its very openness,

369
00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:47,000
that is its best protection to stay open.

370
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,000
And the fact that it is distributed.

371
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,000
So I think that we need to have

372
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,000
a discussion of principles

373
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,500
as I say, or in... in...

374
00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:58,000
it won't end in some sort of statute or constitution

375
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,500
because I don't think it should.

376
00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:01,000
Yet I do think we need to have a discussion,

377
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,500
because we need principles we can point

378
00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:04,000
to when we see them violated,

379
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,500
when we see Verizon, and Google,

380
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:08,000
right I am going to talk about Google,

381
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,500
I am a certified fanboy

382
00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:11,000
but I am very disapointed in Google

383
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,000
for doing a devil's pact with Verizon

384
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,000
to cut up the Internet,

385
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,000
into the Internet and Schminternet

386
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,500
when you are on the wire it acts one way,

387
00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:20,500
when you are out of the wire it acts another way

388
00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:22,000
it's all in one Internet.

389
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,000
So, what are those principles?

390
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,500
On my blog I wrote a post

391
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:27,000
that led up to my question

392
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,500
to President Sarkozy yesterday

393
00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:30,000
on my suggestion that he and others

394
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,000
take an Hippocratic Oath,

395
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,000
and I'm so honored to have been quoted by

396
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,500
Professor Lessig in a Lessig Powerpoint,

397
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:37,000
I'm sorry keynote,

398
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,000
I'm sorry we'll have an au revoir on this, but I...

399
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,000
There are many good efforts

400
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,500
to build Bills of Rights for the Internet,

401
00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:46,500
and I have thrown out my humble suggestions,

402
00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:47,500
and they weren't certainly wrong,

403
00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:49,000
but I think among them

404
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,500
there is the right to connect,

405
00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:52,500
and when someone cuts off that right

406
00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:54,500
it's a violation of Human Rights.

407
00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:57,000
So when Egypt cuts off the Internet connection,

408
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,000
the Human Rights have been violated.

409
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,500
That right to connect is a preamble

410
00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:03,500
to the right of free speech.

411
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:05,500
And what follows the right of free speech

412
00:17:05,500 --> 00:17:07,500
is the right to act and to assemble.

413
00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:09,000
It was in the French constitution

414
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,000
that the notion of the right

415
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,000
to assemble was invented.

416
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,500
I think we need a notion that

417
00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:18,000
our information of our institutions

418
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:19,000
and of our government

419
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,500
should be open by default,

420
00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:23,000
and closed only by necessity.

421
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,000
We are the opposite today.

422
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,500
I think we have to have an understanding

423
00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:29,000
of what it means to be private and to be public.

424
00:17:29,005 --> 00:17:30,500
I wrote a whole book on that

425
00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:31,500
- I won't bore you with that.

426
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:33,000
I think we have to respond

427
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,000
to the notion of net neutrality by saying that

428
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:36,500
all bits are created equal,

429
00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:38,500
and that when anyone restricts a bit

430
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:40,500
for any reason, whether that it was a telco

431
00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:42,000
to restrict how you watch a movie,

432
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,000
whether that it is China restricting you

433
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,500
to search for Falun Gong,

434
00:17:45,500 --> 00:17:47,500
or is that Egypt cutting off the internet,

435
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:49,500
whatever the flow of the internet that is restricted,

436
00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:51,500
the whole internet is restricted.

437
00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:53,000
And so finally we have to hold up

438
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,000
to the structure of the internet

439
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,000
to be open and distributed

440
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,000
because that is its only defense.

441
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,000
But I would argue... I would say that...

442
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,000
they convened you've gone today.

443
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,500
It's very important and should continue

444
00:18:06,500 --> 00:18:08,500
and we need to talk about these issues

445
00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:10,000
at the table of the internet,

446
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,000
and not at this table here,

447
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,000
or not only at this table here.

448
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,500
Before we go to questions I have

449
00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:22,000
comments myself on this whole « eG8 » thing.

450
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,000
Thank you for restating.

451
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,500
I think that beyond the right to connect,

452
00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:29,500
it's existing fundamental rights

453
00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:31,500
that are being used through the internet.

454
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:33,500
There is maybe no need to define

455
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:35,500
new freedoms because it's the existing

456
00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:37,000
freedoms that are being attacked today.

457
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,500
So this eG8 forum,

458
00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:43,000
beyond the local political whitewash

459
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,000
of Nicolas Sarkozy, after 4 years of pushing

460
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,500
for disconnecting French citizens

461
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:50,000
with the HADOPI law,

462
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,000
censorship of web content with the LOPPSI,

463
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,500
and pushing of his notion of a « civilized internet »,

464
00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:57,000
he pushed up to the organization of this event.

465
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,500
Beyond that local political whitewash,

466
00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:04,000
this eG8 forum is to me a smokescreen

467
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,500
to what the governments are really

468
00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:08,500
doing towards the Internet.

469
00:19:08,500 --> 00:19:10,500
In the last twelve months,

470
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:14,000
we witnessed an increase in the rate of

471
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,000
repressive measures attacking the Internet,

472
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,500
attacking our fundamental freedoms.

473
00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:22,000
I'm thinking of the US government reaction

474
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,500
to Wikileaks, the US government seizure

475
00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:26,000
of domain names,

476
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,000
the COICA PROTECT-IP act,

477
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,000
the conclusion of the ACTA

478
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,500
(Anti Counterfeiting Trade Agreement)

479
00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:35,000
that will turn internet actors into

480
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,000
private copyright police

481
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,500
the blackout of Internet in Egypt of course,

482
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:41,000
the administrative censorship of websites

483
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,500
in France, and other countries of Europe.

484
00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:45,000
Everywhere you look,

485
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,000
governments are trying

486
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,500
to gain control of the Internet.

487
00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:50,500
And what we are being sold here

488
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:54,000
is the red carpet to those, Orange,

489
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,000
Vivendi, Alcatel-Lucent and so on.

490
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,500
But if you look a little bit closer,

491
00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:00,500
those very companies

492
00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:03,500
are more and more basing their business models

493
00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:05,500
on the restriction of fundamental freedoms.

494
00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:08,000
Orange by selling this non-neutral

495
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,000
so-called « mobile Internet access »,

496
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,000
Vivendi by pushing for the tougher

497
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,500
copyright vision, 19th century vision

498
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:19,000
where you try to forbid copies at all costs

499
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,500
even if it implies to ban freedom to read,

500
00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:24,000
share and access culture;

501
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,500
Alcatel-Lucent and Huawei are manufacturing

502
00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:29,000
the devices that are being used

503
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,000
in authoritarian regimes to censor the Internet,

504
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,000
and by telecoms operators

505
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,500
who harm our freedom of communication

506
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:36,000
by harming net neutrality

507
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,000
So we, the citizens,

508
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,500
would expect from the governments

509
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:43,000
that they protect us from those corporations,

510
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,500
that they regulate the behaviours,

511
00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:47,500
whether they're anti-competitive

512
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:49,000
or against our fundamental freedoms

513
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000
from the corporations, but instead of that,

514
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,000
what we see here is the glitter and a red carpet.

515
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,000
Now if you have questions,

516
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,500
I see Jean-François has to leave,

517
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:02,500
but maybe if you're late to

518
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:04,000
that thing it will be all right.

519
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,500
5 minutes or something?

520
00:21:05,500 --> 00:21:07,500
I mean, they're French, they will be late already.

521
00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:10,000
Yes, of course but it will be another audience,

522
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,500
to tell the same, so I want to use

523
00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:13,000
this opportunity as well

524
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,500
to raise this issue in a more official format as well.

525
00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:18,000
You have maybe three or four minutes,

526
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,500
if then one has questions directed to Jean-François,

527
00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:22,000
maybe first the questions directed to Jean-François ?

528
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:25,000
Or general questions ?

529
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,000
Ok, no questions so I'm free. Merci.

530
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,000
General questions ?

531
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,500
One here, one here and one here.

532
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:32,500
Yes, please, maybe you'd like

533
00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:34,000
to speak in a microphone ?

534
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,000
If you want to come here,

535
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,000
Yes, one quick question,

536
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,000
I'm Eric Scherer at France Télévisions.

537
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,500
How do you reconcile

538
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:45,000
what you are saying,

539
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,000
about open Internet and freedom of expression

540
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,000
and the need to educate governments,

541
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,500
members of Parliament

542
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:55,500
and the rest of the society

543
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:58,500
about what you are just saying?

544
00:21:58,500 --> 00:22:02,000
There is a big need of Internet literacy

545
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,500
to the governments

546
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:05,000
and to the members of Parliament.

547
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,500
They are totally illiterate about that.

548
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:09,000
How do you reconcile that?

549
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,500
Shall I take this one?

550
00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:12,500
Well, that's what we are trying to do

551
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:14,000
with « La Quadrature du Net »

552
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,500
for more than 3 years now. And we are building,

553
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:19,000
thanks to an open internet,

554
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,500
a toolbox for citizens first of all

555
00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:23,000
to understand what's going on,

556
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,500
and then to participate in the public debate.

557
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:27,000
So, we, La Quadrature du Net,

558
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,000
are nothing but the sum

559
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,000
of all supporters caring about those issues

560
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,500
and pushing for those issues,

561
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:36,000
to the parliament, to the elected representatives

562
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,000
and to all layers of civil society.

563
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,000
I think we have all the tools,

564
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,500
here on the table to do it,

565
00:22:42,500 --> 00:22:46,000
it's just a matter of working towards it.

566
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,000
Larry ?

567
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,500
Yes. I think that the net

568
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:54,000
has been pretty good at educating itself

569
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,000
about the values of this network.

570
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,000
I can't speak for France or for Europe,

571
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,500
but I think in the United States,

572
00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:04,500
we see in civil society communities

573
00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:06,500
that are engaged in trying to spread

574
00:23:06,500 --> 00:23:08,500
and defend what Internet is about.

575
00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:11,000
The problem that I see in the United States is,

576
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,500
and again, I speak only of the United States:

577
00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:15,500
our government is so deeply corrupted

578
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:17,500
by the dynamic that I'm talking about,

579
00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:20,500
that there is a wide gap between

580
00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:24,000
what the educators, the parents, the students,

581
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,000
everybody understands

582
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,500
the future policy should be,

583
00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:30,000
and what our government actually hears.

584
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,000
So, I have shifted a bunch of my work

585
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,500
towards addressing that issue of

586
00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:36,000
that corruption in the United States,

587
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,500
because I don't think we get

588
00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:39,500
anything until we solve that.

589
00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:42,000
But I think that we have

590
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,500
actually seen massive progress on this issue

591
00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:48,000
over the past decade, and I'm encouraged by that,

592
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,000
at least in the context of what people think.

593
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,500
There was one question somewhere... over here ?

594
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:57,000
Ok. Jean-Jacques ?

595
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,000
Do you want to come to the microphone or shout ?

596
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,000
I can shout, if you can hear me.

597
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,000
Jean-Jacques, I work for European Internet Company

598
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,500
and I'm also Council member

599
00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:08,000
of the Internet Society, ISOC.

600
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,500
Rather than questions, just to make a point,

601
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:12,500
this is not actually just another

602
00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:15,000
of these ideas which are shared by civil society,

603
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,000
a lot of these ideas are also shared by

604
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,500
companies and actually the vast majority

605
00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:21,000
of Internet companies out there.

606
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,500
Just yesterday, ISOC issued

607
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:25,000
a press statement which also

608
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,000
called for all stakeholders to be involved

609
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,000
in this discussion around the internet

610
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,500
and internet policy making.

611
00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:32,500
Without all stakeholders being involved

612
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:34,500
have no point of having a discussion;

613
00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:36,500
and they also called for governments

614
00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:38,500
to uphold and protect the open

615
00:24:38,500 --> 00:24:41,000
and decentralised nature of the Internet.

616
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,000
This is fundamental for all of us

617
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,000
in this ecosystem. It needs to happen.

618
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,000
This is not just about civil society.

619
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,500
This is about users, civil society,

620
00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:52,000
technical communities and companies

621
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,000
and governments sitting around the table

622
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,500
discussing the issues.

623
00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:58,000
Thank you -- I actually want to take that up

624
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,000
and emphasize it.

625
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,000
We have a long tradition

626
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,000
of thinking there is an opposition

627
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,000
between efficiency or competition

628
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,500
or markets, and justice and society,

629
00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:13,500
and that somehow we have to trade off

630
00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:16,000
between two competing goals

631
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,000
that aid society: growth and welfare,

632
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,500
and justice and redistribution.

633
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:25,000
But in fact, what has happened with the Internet,

634
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:30,000
is that growth and innovation is exactly

635
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,500
what democracy and justice require.

636
00:25:32,500 --> 00:25:35,500
Both of them need the means of production

637
00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:38,000
distributed widely in the population,

638
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,500
so that anyone can speak, anyone can create,

639
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:42,500
anyone can create their own innovation,

640
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:44,500
anyone can create their own business.

641
00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:47,000
This age old traditional divide is a divide

642
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,000
of the industrial economy.

643
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,000
We have been able to overcome that divide

644
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,000
and today it's between

645
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,000
20th century business models,

646
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,500
and both innovation and growth

647
00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:02,500
and civil society, democracy and justice

648
00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:04,000
on the other opposing side.

649
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,500
In that battle between on one hand innovation,

650
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:10,000
growth, democracy and justice

651
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,000
and preserving revenue streams

652
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,000
of incumbent industries,

653
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,000
it is not a closed choice.

654
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,000
There was a question here ?

655
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,000
Yes, I guess this question is really

656
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,000
for Professor Lessig.

657
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,000
Very basically, why is this so hard?

658
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,000
You know the car came along,

659
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,500
we have parking tickets,

660
00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:31,500
you can lose your license,

661
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:33,000
there are charges for homicide.

662
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,000
There is a wide range of penalties

663
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,000
for all violation shit.

664
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,000
Copyright law, as you rightly pointed out

665
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,500
at the debate yesterday was

666
00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:44,000
the exact same one as it was in 1999.

667
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,500
So the Internet is not new,

668
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:48,000
copyright is not new

669
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,000
and I know there are obviously different

670
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,000
regulatory legal things around this,

671
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,000
but why have we seemingly made

672
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,000
no progress on coming up with

673
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,500
a very basic framework that has penalties

674
00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:05,000
that fit all the different shades of violation?

675
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,500
I think it's actually different depending on the country.

676
00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:11,000
I am struck by the debate

677
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,500
in France around copyright.

678
00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:15,000
I was at conference at Avignon two years ago

679
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,000
and I felt like it was 1995 all over again.

680
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,000
Because as if nothing had been

681
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,000
ever talked about this issues,

682
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,000
it was the exact same framework

683
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,500
that we were fighting back then.

684
00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:28,500
But other countries in Europe are different.

685
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:30,000
I think Germany, for example,

686
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,000
the green party has been pushing

687
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,000
what they call a « cultural flat rate »

688
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,000
that would be an alternative way

689
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,000
to raise money for artists,

690
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,500
that would decriminalize much of the activity

691
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:44,000
which in France people would be kicked off the internet.

692
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,000
And this point was made.

693
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,500
I want to re-emphasize,

694
00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:50,500
there is something really outrageous,

695
00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:52,500
this point was made on my panel,

696
00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:56,500
by the French entrepreneurs.

697
00:27:56,500 --> 00:27:58,500
There is something really outrageous

698
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:01,000
about the idea that the penalty

699
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,500
that has been discussed in France

700
00:28:02,500 --> 00:28:04,000
is the idea that you disconnect yourself

701
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,500
from the Internet.

702
00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:08,500
Only somebody seventy years old would think

703
00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:10,500
- people don’t touch the internet

704
00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:11,500
at seventy years old -

705
00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:12,500
would think that's proportionate.

706
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:14,500
The idea that you will disconnect yourself

707
00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:17,000
from the most important infrastructure

708
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,000
for community, and commerce,

709
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,000
and political activity is outrageous

710
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,000
and yet that is discussed here.

711
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,000
And in other countries, the Nordic countries

712
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,000
and in Germany it is a much more open debate.

713
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,000
In United States again,

714
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,000
I think it is just hide out

715
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,000
by this political framework

716
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,500
where both Democrats and Republicans

717
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:40,000
are so deeply wedded to the content industry

718
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,000
that you can’t even have an open debate

719
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,500
about this issue among politicians.

720
00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:47,000
This is just not a political issue.

721
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,500
And I think that we need to take advantage

722
00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:51,500
of places where it is a political issue.

723
00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:54,000
So Brazil has been extremely important

724
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,500
getting people to recognize why

725
00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:58,000
there is an interesting

726
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,000
opportunity here for development.

727
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,000
And we need to push in those places

728
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,500
to move it along.

729
00:29:03,500 --> 00:29:05,500
But finally, what has been amazing

730
00:29:05,500 --> 00:29:07,000
to me has been WIPO.

731
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,500
I was at WIPO about six years ago,

732
00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:12,000
when I walked in the bulding I was the devil

733
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,000
and the director general wouln't talk to me

734
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,500
and everybody said no word.

735
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:18,500
I was just there six months ago

736
00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:21,500
and the Director General is extraordinarily

737
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:24,000
innovative in his ways of thinking about

738
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,500
the way copyright has got to evolve.

739
00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:27,500
And he's thinking exactly about

740
00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:29,500
the kind of framework

741
00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:30,500
for thinking about what

742
00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:32,000
a future regime should look like,

743
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,000
and I got to address the delegates,

744
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,500
the delegates were encouraging

745
00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:37,000
and thinking about these issues.

746
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,000
It was a completely different place.

747
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,000
And I think we have to take an advantage of that

748
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,000
to some point show countries like

749
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,500
the United States and France that 1995

750
00:29:45,500 --> 00:29:48,000
thinking is so twentieth century.

751
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,500
If I may add something on that, though?

752
00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:53,000
It's very difficult to add something

753
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,000
on professor Lessig.

754
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,500
Those companies with business models

755
00:29:57,500 --> 00:29:59,000
in the XXth century

756
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,000
were based on controlling the channels

757
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,500
of distribution of copies

758
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:06,000
still have hope in managing to attain

759
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,000
the same objective with the Internet.

760
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,000
There is still a chance with the ongoing mergers

761
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,000
between those medias group and telcos,

762
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,000
with the very strong influence

763
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,500
they have on policy makers.

764
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:21,000
They still have a chance to turn the Internet,

765
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,500
the universal Internet we love and share

766
00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:27,000
into a globalized distribution channel

767
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,500
for Vivendi, Fox and those guys.

768
00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:33,000
So we're really at a turning point here:

769
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,000
why they are continuing like it's 1999,

770
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,000
it's because they probably still have a chance,

771
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,000
and maybe they have a greater chance

772
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,000
than they had in 1999 to achieve this objective

773
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,000
I'm sure there are tons of other questions.

774
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,000
Andrew Rasiej, the Personal Democracy Forum

775
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,500
I just want to make a point,

776
00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:57,000
and you're welcome to comment on it,

777
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,000
that the arguments will be made now

778
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,500
by the government officials and by

779
00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:02,000
the incumbents that the digital divide

780
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,000
has been bridged because

781
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,500
broadband distribution is available

782
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:07,500
in many places where it wasn't before.

783
00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:09,500
But they are not actually focussing

784
00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:11,000
on the fact there is a new digital divide

785
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,000
that most working class people

786
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,500
can’t afford the broadband that is available,

787
00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:17,000
and so we need a reframing

788
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,500
of the term « digital divide » specifically around

789
00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:22,500
this subject which is that cost has reached

790
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:25,000
beyond the point of most people

791
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,500
to be able to participate

792
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:27,500
in the 21th century economy.

793
00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:30,500
We have to be careful that they don’t argue

794
00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:32,500
against these points that you are making

795
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:35,500
today to say that we bridge the digital divide

796
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:38,000
and therefore obscure what is really going on.

797
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,000
Yes, just to add onto that:

798
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,500
to make things very simple,

799
00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:44,500
we are in a moment when government

800
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:47,000
can join hands with the content industry

801
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,000
and with the telcos to enforce scarcity,

802
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,000
content controls, and lots of their desired goals,

803
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,000
in a sense this is feeding a revenue model

804
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,000
of governments and Hollywood

805
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,500
to constrain Internet access,

806
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:03,000
to make it much more like a 20th century

807
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,000
broadcast medium and our older policy makers

808
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,000
see the Internet as nothing more

809
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,500
than a one-way screen.

810
00:32:10,500 --> 00:32:13,000
The rest of the world understands

811
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,000
that the world has been turned upside down,

812
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,500
anybody can be a publisher,

813
00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:20,000
anybody should get access to this platform

814
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,500
for democracy, for speech,

815
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:24,000
for content creation, for human flourishing.

816
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,000
What we are witnessing today

817
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,000
is the joining of hands of these giants incumbents

818
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,000
-- and government is one of the incumbents --

819
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,500
to try to keep things as they were.

820
00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:36,000
And many voices are being left

821
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,500
out of that conversation

822
00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:39,500
who could add significantly.

823
00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:43,000
So a purpose of this meeting here today

824
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,000
with all of you is to make sure that no one

825
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,000
walks away thinking that there is consensus.

826
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,000
There is no consensus on enforcing scarcity,

827
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,000
higher prices and constrain access

828
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,500
for world citizens.

829
00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:00,000
The next Google could come from France,

830
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,000
could come from France,

831
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,500
should come from France

832
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:06,000
but if Internet access is constrained

833
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,000
and controlled, it won't.

834
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,000
I think this also provides an opportunity

835
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,500
to talk about something that we

836
00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:17,000
- who come here from the US -

837
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,000
can learn very well from France

838
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,000
and perhaps that France can learn

839
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,000
from itself and its own experience.

840
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,500
In a study I did for the FCC last year,

841
00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:28,500
it became very clear

842
00:33:28,500 --> 00:33:32,000
that US broadband penetration,

843
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,500
broadband prices, broadband speeds,

844
00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:39,000
relative to its performance in 2000-2001

845
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:44,500
had declined from 2002 until 2009

846
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:47,000
by comparison to European countries.

847
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,000
In doing a very close case study

848
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,000
of half the OECD countries,

849
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,500
what became very clear

850
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:56,000
was that on all these questions

851
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,000
of penetration, speed and price,

852
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,000
the critical intervention

853
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,000
that European governments undertook,

854
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,500
and in particular in this case

855
00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:09,000
very successfully the French government

856
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,000
that has in France some of the lowest prices

857
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,000
for the highest performance in the OECD

858
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,500
because of this, is to force monopolists

859
00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:22,000
to introduce competition.

860
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,500
And what we have to learn

861
00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:28,500
is that we take this simple principle,

862
00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:31,000
I mean understand whatever it is,

863
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,500
that there is a core platform

864
00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:35,000
that can't be worked around,

865
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,000
one of the things that government can do

866
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,000
is to make sure that there is competition

867
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,000
as a way of reaching this goal

868
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,000
of not having people priced out

869
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,000
even though in theory there is a connection.

870
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,500
It is absolutely critical that we commit

871
00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:52,000
in the US to open access

872
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,000
in the broadband physical layer,

873
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,500
it is absolutely critical that we commit

874
00:34:57,500 --> 00:35:00,000
to open access higher up when

875
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,000
we talk about mobile wireless,

876
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,500
and we need to go to each country

877
00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:05,000
and learn what it has done well

878
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,000
in its processes that have worked

879
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,500
and translate that both to other countries

880
00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:12,000
and to other regulatory problems.

881
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,000
If you are looking for some more digital divides,

882
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,500
I can think of one.

883
00:35:20,500 --> 00:35:23,000
Wouldn't there be a digital divide

884
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,500
between people being connected to universal,

885
00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:30,500
unrestricted Internet access

886
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:33,000
and the people connected

887
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,500
to some kind of restricted, blocked,

888
00:35:35,500 --> 00:35:38,500
throttled, prioritised network

889
00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:40,000
that isn't related to the Internet?

890
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,000
And if we look at this divide,

891
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,500
maybe there are already more people

892
00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:46,000
if you take into account China

893
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,500
and mobile Internet users,

894
00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:50,000
there may be more people

895
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,000
on the wrong side of that

896
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,000
digital divide as of today.

897
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,000
I'm sure there are plenty of other questions.

898
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,000
Alex Howard, O'Reilly Media.

899
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,500
To what extent can people make a difference?

900
00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:08,000
We've heard this communique has been leaked.

901
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,000
What can and should civil society

902
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,500
and average citizens do

903
00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:15,000
to actually make a difference

904
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,500
to governments who are coming

905
00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:18,000
together tomorrow?

906
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,000
As for tomorrow, we put up

907
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:27,000
-- it's more of a joyful protest

908
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,000
than something that may have an effect --

909
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,000
we launched a website called

910
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,000
g8internet.com on which we put a manifesto

911
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,000
and called people to react by creative resistance.

912
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,000
So there are dozens of works

913
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,000
that are being submitted, some very funny videos

914
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,000
or images, some trolls and so on.

915
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,000
But beyond that, I think it's about using

916
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,000
that freedom of expression

917
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,000
and freedom of communication

918
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,000
that we have between our hands

919
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,000
in an unprecedented way,

920
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,000
use it to make governments accountable,

921
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,000
use it to make our elected

922
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,000
representatives accountable,

923
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,500
and that's one key point

924
00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:10,000
in the way we campaign

925
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,500
at La Quadrature du Net,

926
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:15,000
is to try to increase the political cost

927
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,500
of taking the bad decision for policy makers.

928
00:37:18,500 --> 00:37:20,500
This is what we can do with our

929
00:37:20,500 --> 00:37:23,000
added freedom of expression.

930
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,000
I just wanted to add to that

931
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,500
and emphasise a point that Susan has made.

932
00:37:26,500 --> 00:37:28,000
I think that the biggest thing

933
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,000
that we can do is to negate the framing

934
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,500
of this conference as « everyone agrees here's

935
00:37:36,500 --> 00:37:38,000
what the future of the Internet needs ».

936
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,500
And we negate that by first pointing out

937
00:37:40,500 --> 00:37:42,500
that « the Internet was not here »

938
00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:45,500
one slice of the Internet was here,

939
00:37:45,500 --> 00:37:47,000
companies that can afford

940
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:48,500
the hundred thousand euros

941
00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:51,000
sponsorship cost and whatever else.

942
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:52,500
They were here, that's fine,

943
00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:55,000
but another huge part of the Internet is not here

944
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,500
and especially the innovating companies

945
00:37:58,500 --> 00:38:00,500
that five years from now

946
00:38:00,500 --> 00:38:02,000
will think of this equivalent of Twitter,

947
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,500
they were not here and so

948
00:38:03,500 --> 00:38:06,000
« everybody was not here », number one;

949
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,500
and number two « we all don't agree

950
00:38:08,500 --> 00:38:10,500
on the basic principles of what

951
00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:12,000
we should be doing going forward »,

952
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,500
so I encourage the G8 to think about

953
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:19,000
how to open up a conversation

954
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,000
about what the Internet should look like.

955
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,000
I think Sarkozy's decision this year

956
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,500
to try to do that was a good one

957
00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:26,500
but the question is :

958
00:38:26,500 --> 00:38:28,500
« how do you do it so it really is the Internet

959
00:38:28,500 --> 00:38:30,000
that we're talking about

960
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,500
and involve enough of the Internet

961
00:38:32,500 --> 00:38:34,500
so they we can begin a conversation

962
00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:37,000
towards that policy that would make sense ? »

963
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,000
Larry, if I may, you've just said that

964
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,000
you thought that it was a good idea

965
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,000
that Sarkozy launched this discussion

966
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,500
between governments.

967
00:38:45,500 --> 00:38:47,500
Don't you see this also maybe

968
00:38:47,500 --> 00:38:50,000
as some kind of takeover of Internet governance

969
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,500
by government to some extent?

970
00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:55,500
Well, if the idea entails,

971
00:38:55,500 --> 00:38:58,000
I think as Jeff was putting it,

972
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,500
the idea that we should be

973
00:38:59,500 --> 00:39:01,000
taking over the Internet in some way, yes,

974
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,500
I don't think that's a good idea.

975
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:04,500
But I think that it is necessary

976
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:07,500
that we figure out how we preserve

977
00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:10,000
this ecology of the Internet.

978
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,500
Like what do we do to make sure that it survives,

979
00:39:11,500 --> 00:39:13,500
and we need that conversation

980
00:39:13,500 --> 00:39:15,000
to include more people who say

981
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,500
« keep your hands off of this part;

982
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:20,500
intervene here, like Yochai was just saying

983
00:39:20,500 --> 00:39:23,000
to ensure competition in access

984
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,500
at the physical layer ».

985
00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:26,500
That's a conversation that's complicated

986
00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:28,500
and important to have.

987
00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:30,500
And I think that we need to have that,

988
00:39:30,500 --> 00:39:33,000
and I think just right that we should have been

989
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,000
facilitating that more on our own.

990
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:36,500
We don't quite have the resources

991
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:38,000
that France has perhaps

992
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,500
to launch that conversation, but if we did,

993
00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:44,000
I'd be happy to have that conversation certainly.

994
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,000
Yes, there's a choice between governments

995
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,000
only talking about this which is what the eG8 is

996
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,000
and a multi-stakeholders approach

997
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,000
which would involve civil society,

998
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,500
all the Internet users and the idea

999
00:39:56,500 --> 00:39:59,000
that the Internet is for everyone

1000
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,000
and not just for the large incumbents.

1001
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,500
But I'm... I'm still scared.

1002
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:09,500
And I want you to help me.

1003
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:11,000
I think it's the right question:

1004
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,000
« What the fuck do we do? »

1005
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,000
Right? We can talk here,

1006
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,000
we can change the framing.

1007
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,000
But governments have the force of law

1008
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,500
and companies have the force of the kill switch.

1009
00:40:23,500 --> 00:40:28,500
And so I'm not sure what it is that we,

1010
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:31,000
the people of the Internet, really do.

1011
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,500
What is the force that we are...

1012
00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:38,000
I'm a faux professor in journalism

1013
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,500
so it's ballsy of me to quote Habermas.

1014
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:47,500
But the counter to the weight

1015
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:49,500
of government that he sought in the salons

1016
00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:52,500
and coffee houses, that I think is questionable,

1017
00:40:52,500 --> 00:40:54,500
we do have now, as a counterweight

1018
00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:56,000
to government and a counterweight

1019
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,500
because Sarkozy said yesterday

1020
00:40:57,500 --> 00:40:59,500
that government is the only appropriate

1021
00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:01,000
spokesman for the people of a nation.

1022
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,500
God forbid no!

1023
00:41:02,500 --> 00:41:04,500
Tell that to Wael Ghonim in Egypt.

1024
00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:06,500
The internet became the means

1025
00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:09,000
for the true voice of Egypt to come out.

1026
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,000
And so I really ought to say

1027
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,500
I don’t know what to do,

1028
00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:19,000
is there anything else we should be pointing out ?

1029
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,000
Here is one point:

1030
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,000
you know, we can romanticize the Internet

1031
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,500
and I have spent many many years as a cheerleader

1032
00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:30,500
but the fact is, what the Internet does,

1033
00:41:30,500 --> 00:41:32,500
what people on the Internet do,

1034
00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:35,500
is more effective in some places than others

1035
00:41:35,500 --> 00:41:37,000
So I don't know if you saw

1036
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:38,500
when the big bank bonuses were

1037
00:41:38,500 --> 00:41:41,000
recently announced and Goldman Sachs

1038
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,500
-- huge bank bonuses.

1039
00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:44,000
In the United States there was

1040
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:45,500
some frustration about it.

1041
00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:49,000
In Holland there was a twitter campain against,

1042
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,000
that led to the governement

1043
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,000
blocking bankers in Holland

1044
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:54,500
from taking those bonuses,

1045
00:41:54,500 --> 00:41:58,000
a kind of unimaginable effectiveness

1046
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,500
of the Internet to goverment policy

1047
00:42:00,500 --> 00:42:02,000
by getting involved in having

1048
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,500
a government listen.

1049
00:42:03,500 --> 00:42:04,500
And you know,

1050
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:06,000
compare that to the United States

1051
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,000
where we just lost a battle in North Carolina,

1052
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,000
where after the telecom companies

1053
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,500
had succeeded into getting

1054
00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:13,000
the federal government to say

1055
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,000
« No regulation of telecom companies,

1056
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,000
not having any of your open access regulation

1057
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,500
that Yochaim has been arguing for,

1058
00:42:18,500 --> 00:42:20,000
not even having any effective

1059
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,500
network neutrality regulation.

1060
00:42:21,500 --> 00:42:23,000
They then went to the states,

1061
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,000
because in the states,

1062
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,000
you have local communities

1063
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,000
that are building their own high-speed networks

1064
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,000
much faster, much cheaper

1065
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,500
than what the telecom monopolies provide.

1066
00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:36,000
And the telecom monopolies didn’t like that,

1067
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,000
so what they did is they got the states

1068
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,500
to pass laws banning

1069
00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:43,500
this local telecom franchises.

1070
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:46,000
So here they do not want any regulation

1071
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,500
from the federal government

1072
00:42:47,500 --> 00:42:48,500
but they want state regulation

1073
00:42:48,500 --> 00:42:50,500
to block some competition from local...

1074
00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:52,500
So we try to raise a campaign

1075
00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:55,000
around this and though we get thousands

1076
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,000
of people calling the governor,

1077
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,500
the governor doesn't think she needs

1078
00:42:58,500 --> 00:43:00,000
to pay any attention to

1079
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,000
the internet community at all

1080
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,500
So the difference here is not so much

1081
00:43:03,500 --> 00:43:06,000
the internet: the internet is the same.

1082
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,000
The difference is the political culture

1083
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,000
that feels that it needs to pay attention to it.

1084
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,500
And the only way to force a political culture

1085
00:43:12,500 --> 00:43:14,000
to pay attention to you

1086
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,500
is to punish them when they don't.

1087
00:43:16,500 --> 00:43:20,000
So in France, this three-strikes fact (Hadopi Law)

1088
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,000
should be a source of extraordinary political

1089
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,000
organization to punish

1090
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:26,500
the French government and obviously...

1091
00:43:26,500 --> 00:43:27,500
It is, it is

1092
00:43:27,500 --> 00:43:29,000
...it is of course. It is!...

1093
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,500
but the point is when that gets delivered

1094
00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:32,000
and that had a message,

1095
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,500
when you go from a 5% return to a 20% return

1096
00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:37,500
then you're going to see

1097
00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:39,000
people recognize the internet is a force.

1098
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,500
But we need to do that everywhere,

1099
00:43:41,500 --> 00:43:43,000
it is not something we can take for granted,

1100
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,500
it is really something that's a culture

1101
00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:46,000
that needs to be built.

1102
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,000
So what I hear you saying,

1103
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,500
to oversimplify as is my want:

1104
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:50,500
we're not protecting the internet,

1105
00:43:50,500 --> 00:43:52,000
we're protecting the speech, still.

1106
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,500
Well, to simplify it even further,

1107
00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:56,500
when roles and office depend on

1108
00:43:56,500 --> 00:43:58,000
understanding what the internet is

1109
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,000
and forwarding the internet's openess,

1110
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,000
then we'll get the result we need.

1111
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,000
If we can vote people in or out

1112
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,000
based on their reaction to the internet.

1113
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,000
Then we'll be going somewhere.

1114
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:11,500
Governments only listen to

1115
00:44:11,500 --> 00:44:13,500
the people who elect them

1116
00:44:13,500 --> 00:44:16,500
and the businesses that fund their campaigns.

1117
00:44:16,500 --> 00:44:19,500
Right? So Larry is taking on the businesses

1118
00:44:19,500 --> 00:44:21,000
that fund their campaigns.

1119
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,500
We, the internet people,

1120
00:44:23,500 --> 00:44:25,000
have to take on their election.

1121
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,000
This has to become, as it has become in Australia

1122
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,000
and in Canada, an issue

1123
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,000
for the electoral politics.

1124
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,000
Maybe we can ...

1125
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,000
actually, we are all replying

1126
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,500
with our own words to the great question of Jeff.

1127
00:44:38,500 --> 00:44:41,000
Maybe this will be used as a conclusion

1128
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:42,500
I don't know, maybe there will be

1129
00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:44,000
some more questions but ...

1130
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:48,000
There will be, there's one more question ...

1131
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,000
In my view we have to continue

1132
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:53,500
what we are doing, doing it more

1133
00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:55,500
and being more numerous to do it.

1134
00:44:55,500 --> 00:44:57,000
I've got a few examples

1135
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,000
with our own campaigning

1136
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,000
where we really made a difference,

1137
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,000
whether it is with the amendment 138

1138
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:03,500
in the European Parliament

1139
00:45:03,500 --> 00:45:05,500
that made everybody be shaking

1140
00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:10,000
with fear of « Internet's freedom issue »

1141
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,000
we moved the lines in the ACTA agreement,

1142
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,500
we directly changed some of its contents

1143
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:20,000
and when we leaked that letter

1144
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:21,500
from Nicolas Sarkozy to Bernard Kouchner,

1145
00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:24,000
who was at the time minister of foreign affairs,

1146
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,000
who was to organise a conference

1147
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,000
about freedom of speech on the Internet,

1148
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,000
Sarkozy telling him

1149
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,000
« in the balance of the freedom of speech

1150
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,500
on the Internet, you'll put the HADOPI

1151
00:45:32,500 --> 00:45:34,000
and you'll put the civilized Internet »,

1152
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:35,500
just leaking that letter

1153
00:45:35,500 --> 00:45:38,500
and organizing the leak with our Dutch friends

1154
00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:40,000
from Bits of Freedom made

1155
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,000
the whole conference to be cancelled.

1156
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,000
So we have examples already

1157
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,000
of civil society pressures getting to a result.

1158
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,500
I think it is the way we use our

1159
00:45:50,500 --> 00:45:57,000
freedoms of speech or expression.

1160
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,000
I think it is the way we use it collectively

1161
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,500
that makes us be citizens,

1162
00:46:02,500 --> 00:46:04,000
that makes us do our jobs of citizens

1163
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,000
that makes us participate to politics

1164
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:10,500
in the noble antic sense of citizens carrying

1165
00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:13,000
of the life of the « Cité » and this is exactly

1166
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,000
what we have to do between two elections

1167
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,500
and this how we win if you have

1168
00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:20,000
some volunteer time to contribute.

1169
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,000
Well said

1170
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,500
I just want to hear Yochai's answer

1171
00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:29,000
to Jeff's question first if you don't mind.

1172
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,000
I don't want to take more time.

1173
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,000
It's just, the stories you heard

1174
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,000
tell both that we know how

1175
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,500
and that it is very hard.

1176
00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:40,500
There are success stories,

1177
00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:42,000
there are failure stories.

1178
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,000
But kinds of civil organisation

1179
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,000
that were extremely difficult

1180
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,000
and happened only in great moments of crisis

1181
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,000
when people came out in the streets

1182
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,000
are now more feasible

1183
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,000
at lower levels of activation.

1184
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,500
Whether it's free software developers

1185
00:46:57,500 --> 00:46:59,500
organising against software patents

1186
00:46:59,500 --> 00:47:01,000
at the European level,

1187
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,000
whether it's the story you just call

1188
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,000
about the conference on free speech,

1189
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,000
the level of activation necessary

1190
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,000
because the effort necessary

1191
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:11,500
to participate is lower,

1192
00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:14,000
allows us more direct participation

1193
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,000
but the stakes are very

1194
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,000
very high on the other side.

1195
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,000
If you look at the net neutrality

1196
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:21,500
debates in the United States,

1197
00:47:21,500 --> 00:47:24,000
we did exactly that, we put it on the,

1198
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,000
oh you, put it on the agenda.

1199
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,500
It became a real agenda item, the only thing -

1200
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:31,000
« We are unfortunatly not able

1201
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:32,500
to provide you the last 3 minutes

1202
00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:34,000
of the Press conference.

1203
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,000
See you on Owni.fr »