-
Several weeks back, you'll remember,
-
that I talked about:
-
show me in the Bible where it says that.
-
Well, again, these are
the kind of questions
-
where with the exception
of maybe one of them,
-
we can't go to chapter and verse.
-
Remember, we talked about
-
the mature Christian doesn't walk
-
just by: show me a rule.
-
We have to apply the
principles of Scripture.
-
And you're going to get that feel
-
as we look at these questions
-
that have been asked.
-
But you face the same kind of things
-
in your life.
-
First one:
-
The first two are related.
-
But this comes up a lot.
-
We've got a lot of young people here
-
and so I think this could be helpful.
-
From Andrew:
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He says, "I love Christ,
-
but I have two questions that
-
kind of mix together."
-
I'm not sure how they mix together.
-
And I'm not going to
deal with the second one
-
because it's kind of off.
-
Anyway, I'm just going to deal
-
with this first one here.
-
He says this,
-
"I want to give up high school,
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but at the same time,
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I want to obey my parents
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who want me to do well."
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And I'm assuming what he means is
-
they want me to do well in high school.
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"I want to give up high school,
-
but I want to obey my parents,
-
who want me to do well..."
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The assumption is: in high school.
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"What do I do?"
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So what do you say?
-
Apply Scripture.
-
Be discerning.
-
Sometimes, like I've told you before,
-
when people ask questions -
-
just because they ask questions,
-
sometimes doesn't even mean
-
that their question is valid.
-
I've told you all before,
-
people will say this:
-
Well, I'm a Christian.
-
I know I'm a Christian.
-
I believed three years ago.
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How can I be practicing sexual immorality?
-
You know, sometimes people's questions
-
are not even valid.
-
They're not even legitimate.
-
They're faulty.
-
There's false assumptions.
-
Sometimes as I've pointed out before,
-
we need more information.
-
Sometimes you need to examine the question
-
and ask questions of the question
-
and make certain assumptions,
-
or fill in some empty spaces
-
before you can actually
give valid answers.
-
So here you've got apparently a young man.
-
I would just assume this:
-
that he's of age in
whatever state he lives.
-
That he could drop out of high school
-
and it wouldn't be illegal.
-
His issues here are not apparently
-
with the government or with laws.
-
His issues seem to be with his parents.
-
He wants to give up high school.
-
He says, "I love Christ."
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"I love Christ.
-
I want to give up high school.
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I want to obey my parents.
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My parents want me to do well."
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And I'm assuming in high school.
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"What do I do?"
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(from the room)
-
He should probably obey his parents.
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Tim: Right there,
-
"He ought to obey his parents."
-
That would be the first thing to do.
-
If you're a child,
-
let's ask this question:
-
Give me some biblical basis for saying
-
the first thing he should do
-
is obey his parents.
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Now, it doesn't necessarily mean
-
the end of the answer is
-
that he should obey his parents,
-
because we could probably
think of situations
-
where you shouldn't obey parents.
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In fact, I could probably create scenarios
-
with a high school
-
that it might not even be right
-
to obey your parents if they wanted
-
you to go to that high school.
-
But just for starters,
-
can we say that in all of life -
-
let's think here.
-
Let's break this thing down.
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When I'm dealing with my parents,
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it's not just me and my parents.
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The Lord is in that equation.
-
So think with me here.
-
I've got my will.
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I've got my parents' will.
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And I've got the Lord's will.
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Now a lot of times as children,
-
we have parents.
-
Problems arise with those three wills.
-
What are the potential problems?
-
(Incomplete thought)
-
You've got me.
-
You've got my parent.
-
You've got the Lord.
-
You've got my will,
-
their will...
-
because that's really
what it comes down to.
-
It's not just the three of us -
-
it's our wills.
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What we want to do;
-
what we don't want to do.
-
I've got my will.
-
I've got my parents' will.
-
I've got the Lord's will.
-
Where does the conflict tend to arise
-
in that mixture of three wills?
-
(from the room)
-
Isn't my will irrelevant?
-
And it's just the Lord's will
-
and then my parents
-
in an authoritative state?
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Tim: Oh, no, our will is never irrelevant.
-
Scripture says that it's
God Who works in us
-
to will and to do of His good pleasure.
-
We are applying our will -
-
in fact, even as we seek to discern things
-
what I'm going to do is
-
I'm going to take the information
-
and eventually I'm going to
process that information
-
and now my will is going to act
-
on that information.
-
See, this young man,
-
he's trying to figure out between
-
his will, his parents' will,
and the Lord's will
-
what he should do
-
and given the information,
-
then he's going to act on that.
-
Our will's very much involved,
-
because we are the people in the end
-
who are going to make the decision
-
about whether we're going to do one thing
-
or do the other.
-
(Incomplete thought)
-
What's the goal?
-
With those three wills involved,
-
what's the goal?
-
Honor the Lord.
-
The goal is that our will
-
be in line with the Lord's,
-
no matter what our parents' will is.
-
That's the ultimate objective here.
-
But where do the problems tend to arise
-
in this three-willed deal?
-
(Unintelligible)
-
Tim: The parents and who?
-
(unintelligible)
-
Tim: So typically what you see,
-
there's typically problems on two ends.
-
Either one, we tend
to not honor our parents
-
and don't care enough about their will.
-
The other problem is
-
we care too much about our parents' will
-
and dishonor the Lord's will.
-
Those are the two ways.
-
Think about it.
-
What are some good examples,
-
like perhaps this guy right here?
-
His will; his parents' will.
-
He wants to do his thing.
-
His parents are against him.
-
He could just blow them off
-
and do whatever he thinks he wants to.
-
(Incomplete thought)
-
And you know what happens,
-
you don't like what your parents want,
-
so you imagine the Lord
wants what you want.
-
So you basically make the Lord
-
line up with you because
-
you don't like what your parents want.
-
But also, Jesus, on more than one occasion
-
talks about our parents
-
having too much sway in our life
-
to where we need to follow Him
-
rather than the way of our parents.
-
So, I would say this,
-
by default,
-
like unless circumstances
indicate otherwise,
-
by default,
-
we should obey our parents.
-
Can anybody substantiate that claim?
-
(from the room)
-
I think of Romans 13
-
where it says every person is to be
-
in subjection to the
governing authorities,
-
for there's no authority except for God,
-
and those which exist
are established by God.
-
Tim: That is probably dealing more
-
with government.
-
But I mean, taken in the broadest sense,
-
you could include parents
-
in some of those statements there.
-
That text itself,
-
the context there probably is speaking
-
more so of the government.
-
But how about some texts that deal
-
very specifically with parents?
-
(from the room): Ephesians 6
-
Tim: Ok, and read that.
-
(from the room)
-
Children, obey your parents in the Lord,
-
for this is right.
-
Tim: And then keep going.
-
(from the room)
-
"Honor your father and mother,"
-
(for this is the first commandment
-
with a promise).
-
Tim: So he actually goes back
-
to the 5th commandment
-
in the Ten Commandments.
-
Now, somebody might say there,
-
well, he's speaking to little children.
-
At what point do the children of parents
-
have a right to no longer honor,
-
respect, obey their parents?
-
(from the room)
-
Should children have to obey
their parents if it's sin?
-
Tim: If it's sin.
-
Because obviously that would be
-
a situation where my parents
-
are at odds with the Lord.
-
But can you think of anything
-
especially in the New Testament,
-
where you actually have adults
-
who are being reprimanded
-
for not having honored
their parents properly?
-
The Pharisees.
-
How about Matthew 15.
-
Somebody turn there.
-
I think it's right at the
beginning of the chapter.
-
Matthew 15.
-
If it's not the first verse,
-
it's very close to the beginning
-
of the chapter I believe.
-
Somebody want to read that?
-
That was where they had
-
their corban rule -
-
I don't know how it comes across
-
in all the translations,
-
but somebody read that account.
-
(from the room)
-
It's the Pharisees saying
-
they break the law by not washing
-
their hands before they eat.
-
And Jesus replies,
-
"Why do you break the command of God
-
for the sake of your tradition?
-
For God said, 'honor
your father and mother,'
-
And, 'anyone who curses their father
-
or mother is to be put to death.'"
-
Tim: Yeah, basically, He's pressing this
-
even on adults.
-
Now, the question comes up oftentimes,
-
well, come on, if I'm an adult
-
should my parents be allowed
-
to rule my life?
-
I would say no.
-
Whether you're a child or you're an adult,
-
you're in a position that the Lord
-
should rule your life.
-
But, obviously, as
the Lord rules your life,
-
having a very high regard for your parents
-
is something that Jesus
-
faulted the religious leaders
-
for not properly doing.
-
On the other hand though,
-
somebody says,
-
let me go bury my father.
-
You understand that doesn't mean
-
there was a funeral going on.
-
The idea was the son stayed at home
-
until the father died.
-
And that was expected.
-
In a lot of countries,
-
that's why they want sons.
-
That's why they kill so many girls.
-
That's why they abort so many girls.
-
That's why in so many countries
-
where the children are limited -
-
boy, there's numerous countries.
-
You can think of China.
-
I watched something on the Balkan's
-
where it's almost a curse
-
in some of those Balkan countries
-
to have a daughter first.
-
They want sons.
-
Not just because the son's going to
-
carry on the name,
-
but because the son's
going to care for them.
-
If you have daughters,
-
they go off - you know, like Charity.
-
She's just going to go off somewhere else.
-
She disappears.
-
If Joshua gets married, you know,
-
he's kind of the guy in the driver's seat.
-
But of course, in those days,
-
they often stayed right
there in the same home.
-
And Jesus says, "let the dead
-
bury their dead."
-
And that's a strong statement.
-
And then it's interesting,
-
the very next verse,
-
when you're dealing with this in Luke 9 -
-
"I just want to go home and say goodbye."
-
And it's just like
-
your family affections better not take
-
your hand off the plow.
-
That's the real issue there
-
in that context.
-
Of course, He says in Matthew 10,
-
I did not come to bring peace,
-
but a sword.
-
And He says a son is going to be
-
against his father.
-
I know this,
-
that if our desire is to follow the Lord,
-
it's going to bring a sword.
-
Especially if you don't
have saved parents,
-
it's going to bring a sword.
-
There's going to be some difficulty.
-
But at the same time,
-
honoring those parents is something
-
that is not cancelled out.
-
You see, there's a tension there.
-
We feel like, wow,
-
let the dead bury their dead?
-
Does that seem like you're
honoring the parents?
-
Well, listen.
-
We don't even want to make
-
the will of the Lord and
the will of our parents
-
even close.
-
It's the will of the Lord.
-
The will of the Lord takes the day.
-
But here's what you would
have to ask yourself:
-
Is there anything about
going to high school
-
that would be in opposition to the Lord?
-
See, that's what really has to be asked.
-
Like when I read this,
-
"I want to give up high school,
but at the same time,
-
I want to obey my parents
who want me to do well.
-
What do I do?"
-
Well, I wrote an arrow there.
-
I want to give up high school.
-
And I wrote an arrow there: Why?
-
You need to talk to the guy more.
-
Why do you want to give it up?
-
Well, if he says,
-
(incomplete thought)
-
they are sending me to school
-
and I get 8 hours of evolution
-
and I have a teacher who's a pedophile...
-
whatever.
-
There could be reasons that
-
yes, he should not be
going to that school.
-
Because he doesn't give an answer,
-
I just get the sense that he just
-
doesn't like school.
-
And his parents want him to do well.
-
If it's a matter of laziness,
-
or if it's a matter of I just don't like
-
having to put forth that work,
-
or his parents fear what
he's going to amount to
-
if he doesn't get an education.
-
Where's he going to end up in life?
-
Hey look, there are people
-
who don't finish college educations
-
or high school educations,
-
who do extremely well in this world.
-
But, let me tell you this,
-
the vast majority of drop-outs don't.
-
Why?
-
Because it's a picture of failure.
-
It's a picture of laziness
-
and an unwillingness to work
-
at something hard
-
and just applying oneself.
-
It's typically not an indication
-
of something that's good.
-
I think, what Sid, you dropped out
-
like two weeks before you were
-
going to graduate?
-
But see, his father's health was declining
-
and he had a family business.
-
And the whole Sytsma clan,
-
they're all very business minded.
-
I don't think John got one either, did he?
-
Oh, he did.
-
(from the room)
-
I never needed my diploma -
-
never, ever, ever.
-
Tim: But, you can't fault Sid -
-
Sid's a hard worker.
-
And you know, if this guy
-
for some reason has a crazy high school
-
and they're teaching him sinful things
-
and it's just a tempatation there
-
and it's not healthy
-
and he really does want to finish
-
and he's willing to take the exam
-
and get his GED
-
and he wants to start taking
-
college courses online or whatever...
-
still, in all of it,
-
unless there's something overt here,
-
he should obey his parents.
-
I mean, that would be right to obey them.
-
And I suspect that the reasons
-
he wants to not do it,
-
probably are not good.
-
I'm making assumptions there.
-
And I suspect that the reasons
-
that his parents want him to finish it
-
probably are legitimate and good.
-
That's just my take.
-
Like I said, you've got to fill in
-
some of the gaps without
-
having more information.
-
(from the room)
-
So are there other times
-
where it might be excusable
-
or permissible?
-
Tim: Well, here's the thing.
-
You have the fifth commandment.
-
You have a commandment
-
with promise.
-
And you might catch that:
-
A commandment with a promise.
-
Listen,
-
I've said this many times,
-
but Hudson Taylor
-
was of the mindset that
he would not receive
-
anybody into the China Inland Mission
-
unless their parents approved.
-
And he had some cases where
-
he desperately wanted laborers,
-
and he had good, solid
laborers come apply,
-
but their parents were not willing
-
that they should go,
-
and he wouldn't take them.
-
I just had a young man come to me
-
who's been talking to me
-
about the foreign mission field.
-
And he said there's some issues
-
with his parents.
-
And he said, yeah,
-
that commandment with promise
-
is that you'll live long,
-
and he's got it in his
conscience right now
-
that if he were to go against their will,
-
he's afraid he'd probably die over there.
-
And you know what,
-
that might be very valid expectation.
-
(incomplete thought)
-
Look, our lives should be lived
-
so that we are honoring
-
and giving great respect to our parents.
-
And that should be the default reaction.
-
It should only be in processing
-
that you - if you process this thing
-
and you come to some conclusion
-
that the Lord obviously wants
-
you to do something different than
-
what your parents want you to do.
-
But you want Scripture,
-
you want counsel,
-
you want prayer,
-
you want to be asking the Lord
-
to guide you with His eye (Psalm 32) -
-
you want that.
-
You want His guidance.
-
There's safety in counsel,
-
even a multitude.
-
And you want Scriptural support.
-
Why?
-
Because Scripture is God's will.
-
That's what you're trying to discern.
-
What is God's will in this thing?
-
Well, God's will most of the time
-
is for you to follow your parents' will.
-
And you know, most parents
-
have the good of their children -
-
I recognize you can get evil parents;
-
I've known of a mother that
-
didn't want her daughter to marry that guy
-
because that guy's a Christian.
-
And she wasn't, and her daughter was.
-
And she just hated Christians.
-
Well, of course, that's
not a valid reason.
-
Of course, if her
daughter's going to marry,
-
she needs to marry a Christian.
-
But this next one now,
-
you guys are going to solve.
-
So what's the answer for the other guy?
-
The answer for the other guy -
-
basically given my assumptions,
-
I would tell the guy,
-
if he was a young person in the church,
-
given the assumptions I made,
-
I'd tell him work hard.
-
Finish high school.
-
Honor your parents.
-
The Lord's blessing will be upon that.
-
Unless he brought up some facts
-
about the high school that were big,
-
obvious reasons why he needs to get out
-
of that situation.
-
So here's one - you guys
are going to answer this one.
-
Put your thinking caps on.
-
"Hey, I am 17 - birthday in September.
-
I want to get my license,
-
but my parents don't care.
-
They are unbelievers.
-
They allowed me -
-
even told me to drive.
-
And I realize lately that
I've been sinning (I think).
-
But they want me to wait until I'm 18
-
to get my license,
-
and want me in the meantime
-
to drive to work with my dad
-
building fences mostly.
-
We live out in the country.
-
I don't want to sin toward God by driving,
-
but also not obey my parents.
-
What should I do?
-
I think it might be ok,
-
because we live in a very small community
-
out in the country,
-
and the closest town is very small.
-
What should I do?"
-
So, the situation's obvious.
-
He's 17. He doesn't have a driver's license.
-
Obviously, the government would demand
-
that he have a license.
-
But his parents are telling him -
-
they're putting pressure on him -
-
his dad especially -
-
to drive, and it doesn't sound like
-
he's in a position where he can just
-
opt out of driving.
-
He is involved with work.
-
And he drives to work.
-
Now this guy might not even
-
be in high school anymore.
-
But he builds fences with his dad.
-
They live out in the country.
-
So, you guys tell him what to do.
-
(from the room)
-
Call the sheriff.
-
Tell your situation to him,
-
and he may give you a good conscience
-
and say well, that's ok.
-
Or he may go visit your parents.
-
Tim: See, I thought you were
-
going to say this:
-
Call the sheriff.
-
Tell him what your dad's making you do.
-
Go jump in the truck.
-
And have that sheriff pull you over.
-
And both you and the sheriff are
-
in it together,
-
and the sheriff is going to drag you home
-
to your dad,
-
and the sheriff is going to
-
put his finger on the throat of your dad
-
and say, "Boy, you better
get that boy licensed.
-
If I catch him on the road again,
-
I'm coming after you."
-
That's what I think should happen.
-
(from the room)
-
If he's got that type of sheriff,
-
that sounds like a good idea.
-
Tim: Any other ideas on that one?
-
Let's suppose he doesn't have
-
a sheriff like that.
-
Let's suppose he'd be terrified
-
to call the sheriff and even ask
-
about such things.
-
(from the room)
-
Well, I think James hit on it,
-
perhaps for conscience's sake,
-
you could say I can't drive
-
because it's violating my conscience
-
because we're breaking the law here.
-
And then the dad would either have to say
-
break the law specifically
-
or say I understand, you
have a strong conscience,
-
and he would say we've
got a great kid here.
-
That's what I would recommend.
-
Tim: So he needs to stand up to his dad.
-
(from the room)
-
For conscience's sake, respectfully.
-
Tim: He needs to respectfully
-
stand up to his dad.
-
On what basis?
-
(from the room)
-
For the law.
-
Say dad, this is the law.
-
You always taught me to obey the law.
-
Tim: Ryan mentioned the
text from Romans 13.
-
So, we are called to submit
-
to the governing authorities.
-
So I have a responsibility
-
to submit to the law.
-
My dad is telling me to break the law,
-
which God obviously wants me to keep.
-
And so my dad's not only
-
going against the government,
-
my dad's going against God.
-
And so, I need to stand up to my dad.
-
Of course, standing up to a dad -
-
especially some kinds of dad's...
-
But, no matter what his dad's like,
-
if he's a Christian, he should
-
stand up to him rather than do wrong.
-
And suffer the consequences.
-
Is that right?
-
(from the room)
-
For conscience's sake, yeah.
-
Tim: So rather than violate conscience,
-
even if your dad's going to beat you up,
-
you should stand up to him.
-
(from the room)
-
Say if, another example, you dad
-
encourages you to lie on your taxes.
-
Say you're an adult.
-
Well, you don't do that.
-
You stand up.
-
Tim: Even if your dad's
going to beat you up?
-
(from the room)
-
I would say yes.
-
Tim: I just wanted to get
you guys to say it.
-
Because yes, of course.
-
Isn't that what goes into the Gospel?
-
The sword comes in the family.
-
What's the idea?
-
The sword - you're going to have problems.
-
(Incomplete thought)
-
What does Luke 14 say?
-
How does it word it?
-
What does Jesus say
concerning parents in Luke 14?
-
(Incomplete thought)
-
(from the room)
-
If anyone comes to me
-
and does not hate his own father...
-
Tim: Wow... hate his own father.
-
(from the room)
-
...and wife and children
and brothers and sisters
-
and yes, even his own life,
cannot be My disciple.
-
Tim: What sort of speech is that?
-
When you exaggerate?
-
(from the room)
-
Hyperbolic.
-
Tim: Hyperbolic.
-
Why is hyperbole used?
-
Why say something that
if you boiled it down
-
to the exact literal sense
-
would probably go against a multitude
-
of things God tells you.
-
Which we understand that form of speech.
-
Why is hyperbole used?
-
What's its intent?
-
To drive home a point.
-
Right.
-
And you know the thing is,
-
even with the government,
-
what happened when the disciples said
-
we ought to obey God rather than man?
-
What did the Sanhedrin do to them?
-
Beat them.
-
Yeah, here's the thing.
-
God calls upon us to do right.
-
But we also need to be ready
-
to take the consequences of doing right.
-
And so yes, these men are right.
-
It's wrong to drive
without a driver's license.
-
Now, seriously, could a creative young man
-
do something like call the sheriff
-
and tell his situation?
-
If the sheriff ended up coming
-
and not playing along with the boy,
-
dad might not appreciate that he
-
went behind his back like that.
-
But something like that
-
could be creatively constructive I guess.
-
But yes, however this thing works out,
-
whether you can get somebody
-
in a position of authority
who's backing you up
-
like a sheriff,
-
or whether you have to go yourself,
-
I think the way you go
-
is you go humbly
-
and you go with Scripture.
-
And you show, dad, I want to respect you
-
and I want to honor you,
-
but the Lord wants me to
-
obey the government.
-
And you're asking me to
disobey the government.
-
Please, dad.
-
Just let me get my driver's license
-
so that I can work with you
-
and I can drive with you
-
and I can do it legally.
-
I think if you do it
with the right spirit,
-
that doesn't mean there
might not be consequences.
-
That doesn't mean it might
not provoke the dad.
-
But I think with the right attitude
-
and the right approach...
-
There are proverbs that talk about -
-
I know that there's "a
soft answer turns away wrath."
-
What's the other one?
-
There's one that says
-
a (what) is persuasive?
-
Is it Proverbs 16?
-
(Incomplete thought)
-
It's something is persuasive.
-
Can somebody look that up?
-
What is it?
-
Proverbs 16:21?
-
And it says?
-
(from the room)
-
Sweetness of speech
increases persuasiveness.
-
Tim: Oh, isn't that a good one?
-
So, there you go.
-
You give that to the young man.
-
Go armed with that verse
-
and approach your dad
-
with sweetness of speech.
-
(from the room)
-
And one text in all of this
-
I was thinking of was Mark 3.
-
Even if this guy's parents seized him
-
and said you're out of your mind,
-
well the exact same thing
-
happened to Jesus Christ.
-
Imagine Mary telling Jesus
-
You're out of your mind.
-
And that actually happened.
-
Yet, He wanted to do
the will of His Father.
-
Tim: Right.
-
(from the room)
-
So it's not any different than
-
what Christ went through,
-
even with His own mother.
-
Tim: Yeah, and Jesus said
-
if they treated Him in a certain way,
-
or they called Him certain things,
-
or they did certain things
-
in a persecuting fashion,
-
they're going to do the same to you.
-
Ok.