Return to Video

cdn.media.ccc.de/.../36c3-11247-eng-Technical_aspects_of_the_surveillance_in_and_around_the_Ecuadorian_embassy_in_London.mp4

  • 0:02 - 0:11
    36C3 preroll music
  • 0:19 - 0:25
    Herald: Okay. As you probably know, Julian
    Assange, as well as his colleagues and
  • 0:25 - 0:30
    friends and associates, were extensively
    surveilled during his time at the embassy.
  • 0:30 - 0:37
    And our next speaker, Andy, is going to
    talk about procedural and technical
  • 0:37 - 0:43
    details of that surveillance, which is
    what we're really interested in, that's
  • 0:43 - 0:49
    why the room is full. So, Andy, "Technical
    Aspects of the Surveillance in and around
  • 0:49 - 0:53
    the Ecuadorian Embassy in London", please
    give him a warm round of applause.
  • 0:53 - 1:02
    applause
  • 1:02 - 1:06
    Andy Müller-Maguhn: Okay. Good morning,
    everybody. I'm holding this talk,
  • 1:06 - 1:11
    actually, for the second time. The first
    time was on day one, but somehow the video
  • 1:11 - 1:17
    recording got fucked up. I would say CIA,
    but at this early time of the talk you
  • 1:17 - 1:23
    might think I'm paranoid, but I'm... well,
    we can discuss that after my talk again.
  • 1:23 - 1:27
    laughter
    applause
  • 1:27 - 1:32
    Andy: The two dis...
    oh fuck...
  • 1:32 - 1:36
    laughter
  • 1:40 - 1:42
    Herald: Anyone here who knows computers?
  • 1:42 - 1:45
    laughter
  • 1:54 - 1:59
    Andy: Let's try again. Does this work?
  • 1:59 - 2:04
    applause
  • 2:04 - 2:07
    Andy: OK. So, the presentation does cover
  • 2:07 - 2:14
    some, but not... gosh, being awake on day
    4... This presentation does cover some,
  • 2:14 - 2:20
    but not all aspects of the surveillance.
    There is, of course, stuff happened on the
  • 2:20 - 2:27
    wireless network, on the bound network.
    There was more things going on. There was
  • 2:27 - 2:31
    an ongoing heat in the embassy, which made
    us think they might be using nanometer
  • 2:31 - 2:37
    waves to look through the walls and from
    the ceilings above and below and so on.
  • 2:37 - 2:43
    However, we are still getting
    documentation about other things. So this
  • 2:43 - 2:47
    is like the state of affairs right now. I
    will probably make a long video of
  • 2:47 - 2:54
    explaining things with also more details
    later this year. Second disclaimer, what
  • 2:54 - 3:01
    I'm presenting is mostly stuff from a
    company called Undercover Global. They are
  • 3:01 - 3:10
    subject to an ongoing lawsuit. The owner
    of the company and CEO has been accepting
  • 3:10 - 3:16
    third party instructions and a lot of
    money and has been modifying the official
  • 3:16 - 3:22
    product, cause and technology used. He's
    investigated for violating laws of
  • 3:22 - 3:29
    privacy, secrecy of lawyer-client-attorney
    thingy, whatever the English term is,
  • 3:29 - 3:34
    bribery, money laundering and so on. And
    also the Spanish justice has very
  • 3:34 - 3:39
    officially started investigation for a
    spying foreign foreign intelligence
  • 3:39 - 3:45
    service, namely the CIA. At the time of
    the presentation right today, however, he
  • 3:45 - 3:51
    is not charged. So this is a subject of
    ongoing things. And of course, we don't
  • 3:51 - 3:57
    have the material from other intelligence
    services who have been working around the
  • 3:57 - 4:04
    embassy although we have some indications
    of what they have been doing. As this is a
  • 4:04 - 4:10
    rather 80 slide plus videos presentation,
    I thought it's a good idea to give you a
  • 4:10 - 4:16
    rough overview of what this is about. I'm
    trying to give you the big picture, the
  • 4:16 - 4:21
    embassy overview, so that you understand
    the building, the rooms and so on. The so-
  • 4:21 - 4:27
    called "Operation Hotel", that was the
    official task of the company at the time
  • 4:27 - 4:33
    to protect the embassy against people
    intruding and so on, taking care of the
  • 4:33 - 4:38
    guests, so they had their own terminology.
    The standard operational procedures in
  • 4:38 - 4:45
    place, the modifications that, as
    indicated, David Morales instructed or got
  • 4:45 - 4:52
    instructed from US intelligence to do.
    Overview of what they collected on
  • 4:52 - 4:57
    visitors. Then, there was a special event
    in December 2017 when they went actually
  • 4:57 - 5:03
    through the whole embassy to identify all
    kinds of objects. They documented every
  • 5:03 - 5:09
    piece of furniture to see where they could
    include more hidden bugs and other things
  • 5:09 - 5:19
    and upgrades to the security situation. A
    short thing about what Julian did to
  • 5:19 - 5:24
    counter the surveillance and how they
    countered his countermeasures. And then at
  • 5:24 - 5:28
    the end, something about the term
    "Actionable Intelligence", which becomes
  • 5:28 - 5:36
    very plastic. The context is, of course,
    that Julian has taken the idea of the
  • 5:36 - 5:42
    hacker ethic, said all information should
    be free, serious to an extent, and has
  • 5:42 - 5:46
    been committed to that, that we can, of
    course, also say, well, he has won
  • 5:46 - 5:50
    probably one of the highest journalistic
    prizes being carried out out of a
  • 5:50 - 5:59
    protected embassy. That's quite a reward
    and quite a recognition that he and the
  • 5:59 - 6:03
    people in power he exposed had the
    impression that they don't fit together on
  • 6:03 - 6:10
    the same planet in this situation.
    However, the big picture is to make you
  • 6:10 - 6:16
    understand the historic overview of
    events. So there was a initial phase when
  • 6:16 - 6:21
    he got into the embassy when they were
    actually unprepared, of course, for him
  • 6:21 - 6:26
    coming in there. And they actually had a
    surveillance camera for checking the
  • 6:26 - 6:32
    visitors before they entered the building.
    But that was more or less it. Then in 2015
  • 6:32 - 6:38
    this company got engaged and installed a
    lot of things. There was, however, three
  • 6:38 - 6:45
    different phases which I want to separate
    here for you to understand when the first
  • 6:45 - 6:51
    phase was under U.S. President Obama and
    the more left wing government of Ecuador
  • 6:51 - 6:57
    under President Correa. However, right at
    the beginning of the engagement of
  • 6:57 - 7:04
    Undercover Global for the Ecuadorian
    foreign ministry to protect the embassy he
  • 7:04 - 7:12
    went to a security conference, or however,
    to Las Vegas and presented his little
  • 7:12 - 7:16
    company and the one customer they had. So
    that's so much about the size of the
  • 7:16 - 7:20
    company. He presented like the one
    customer, the one project they did that
  • 7:20 - 7:25
    was taking care of the embassy and of
    course quickly found interested parties
  • 7:25 - 7:32
    from the US security environment to boost
    up his career. And so his spying for third
  • 7:32 - 7:37
    party started right away. At the beginning
    he received payments from a company called
  • 7:37 - 7:42
    Las Vegas Sense that's owned by Sheldon
    Adelson. He was officially hired to take
  • 7:42 - 7:48
    care of a yacht of Sheldon Adelson
    although that yacht already had a security
  • 7:48 - 7:54
    team. So there's ongoing investigations
    also where the money came from and so on.
  • 7:54 - 8:03
    However, in phase two, 2017, so after some
    publications had upset the US maybe even
  • 8:03 - 8:11
    more and also the Ecuadorian government
    had changed in the midst of or the
  • 8:11 - 8:17
    beginning of 2017. They started serious
    modifications of the protocol. Not only
  • 8:17 - 8:20
    that he switched to encrypted
    communication with his employees, with his
  • 8:20 - 8:27
    instructions. He also, like, pressured
    from his American friends, the wish to
  • 8:27 - 8:33
    have covert audio bugs, higher resolution
    cameras, and also cameras in all rooms
  • 8:33 - 8:40
    with audio. We can say pretty sure that
    this has been done on behalf of the US as
  • 8:40 - 8:46
    the emails he sent to instruct this
    modifications - we have all those emails -
  • 8:46 - 8:49
    the emails show the IP numbers they have
    been sending for, the lawyers have
  • 8:49 - 8:56
    analyzed this. So we know that he has been
    in Virginia Arlington and in Las Vegas and
  • 8:56 - 9:01
    other places, when he came with these
    instructions. Also his language, his
  • 9:01 - 9:06
    English was not very good and technically,
    he was not very sophisticated, but he
  • 9:06 - 9:11
    sometimes sent instructions in very good
    English with presentations and detailed
  • 9:11 - 9:18
    technical details that clearly came not
    from him, which also was obtained. So we
  • 9:18 - 9:25
    are pretty confident in these things that we
    claim here. And then there was something
  • 9:25 - 9:29
    going on at the end of 2017, which I'll
    explain later. However, I want to point
  • 9:29 - 9:36
    out a complete different thing, which
    might be or might have led to confusion.
  • 9:36 - 9:42
    At April 2018 two things happened: The
    Ecuadorians, the new government of
  • 9:42 - 9:47
    Ecuador, made a mutual legal assistance
    agreement with the United States in the
  • 9:47 - 9:54
    investigation against Assange, as they
    justified it with the interference in the
  • 9:54 - 10:01
    elections, so to give the Ecuadorians like
    a plausible reason to help them. The
  • 10:01 - 10:05
    cooperation with UC Global was canceled
    because they were unsatisfied with their
  • 10:05 - 10:10
    quality of their work. And they installed
    a second company called Prom Security,
  • 10:10 - 10:15
    which is an Ecuadorian company made up by
    a former colonel of their local
  • 10:15 - 10:21
    intelligence, which then did the
    surveillance. And probably that material
  • 10:21 - 10:27
    could more easily be used in any legal
    proceedings as everything that happened
  • 10:27 - 10:35
    before was plainly illegal. However, the
    material of that second company landed
  • 10:35 - 10:40
    partly in an extortion attempt against
    WikiLeaks, against Julian, against...
  • 10:40 - 10:46
    Kristinn met these guys with undercover
    Spanish police, so the current editor in
  • 10:46 - 10:51
    chief of WikiLeaks, and that's subject to
    a lawsuit also. And there is also
  • 10:51 - 10:55
    publications about that. But my
    presentation is mainly about this first
  • 10:55 - 11:02
    phase until April 2018 to avoid that
    potential confusion. Also it's maybe worth
  • 11:02 - 11:07
    to point out that all Julian's belongings,
    like his computers, his notes and material
  • 11:07 - 11:12
    and so on, has all been confiscated by the
    Ecuadorians and directly given to the
  • 11:12 - 11:20
    United States based on this agreement they
    made in April 2018. So here you get a
  • 11:20 - 11:24
    rough overview of the embassy. It's not
    the whole building, it's just the flat on
  • 11:24 - 11:29
    the ground floor here on the left side,
    going all the way down that little street
  • 11:29 - 11:35
    on the left where actually Harrods, the
    shopping mall, Harrods has their delivery
  • 11:35 - 11:41
    acceptance situation. So this is like from
    the side view. On the right side, you see
  • 11:41 - 11:47
    the emergency exit of the embassy. Again,
    side view and on the right, you see the
  • 11:47 - 11:53
    courtyard. This is the entrance situation,
    in the building there is more embassies.
  • 11:53 - 11:57
    The Colombian embassy is right on the
    right side, for example. There is one more
  • 11:57 - 12:02
    which I don't recall which it is, however
    you see here the entrance door of the
  • 12:02 - 12:08
    embassy and here the entrance situation
    from a different camera perspective. Here
  • 12:08 - 12:15
    you would have an overview of the
    installed cameras before the upgrades in
  • 12:15 - 12:22
    December 2017. So most important is maybe
    this "Sala de reunion" on the upper left
  • 12:22 - 12:27
    side, not on the left corner, but once to
    the right, that's the meeting room. And
  • 12:27 - 12:32
    here you see that there was only until
    then one camera. This is where most of the
  • 12:32 - 12:36
    meetings with visitors, with lawyers and
    so on took place. However, all the green
  • 12:36 - 12:41
    areas do not only indicate you where video
    surveillance took place, but all the
  • 12:41 - 12:48
    interior ones are exactly the areas Julian
    was officially allowed to like use,
  • 12:48 - 12:53
    including the kitchen on the right side on
    the very right bottom "Habitacio n
  • 12:53 - 13:00
    Huesped" that's his kind of small sleeping
    room where he had his bed and things. And
  • 13:00 - 13:05
    you would see the entrance situation
    there. Outside they also had some cameras,
  • 13:05 - 13:11
    which they had one 8 megapixel 360 degree
    monster, which actually made me think I
  • 13:11 - 13:21
    want that as well. This is the more
    harmless cameras on the sideways. But you
  • 13:21 - 13:29
    see here the idea of that camera. That's
    pretty good. It even catched some events
  • 13:29 - 13:35
    which I will indicate you later. So you get
    the idea. Harrods is right next. And also
  • 13:35 - 13:43
    right left is this entrance delivery
    situation. "Operation Hotel" was the code
  • 13:43 - 13:49
    name of the official security situation.
    So they had their own terminology:
  • 13:49 - 13:54
    "Director" was the ambassador, "Guest" was
    Julian Assange, "Hotel" was the embassy.
  • 13:54 - 13:59
    They, of course, had specific processes in
    place, how regular, how visitors would be
  • 13:59 - 14:04
    accepted. They sometimes in most of the
    times needed to be signed off by the
  • 14:04 - 14:08
    ambassador. So the ambassador had to allow
    someone getting into the building in the
  • 14:08 - 14:13
    first place and how that would be treated,
    how their passports would be checked,
  • 14:13 - 14:17
    their electronics would be taken and so
    on. There was an official representative
  • 14:17 - 14:26
    of the Ecuadorian intelligence titled the
    second secretary of the ambassador called
  • 14:26 - 14:31
    Gabriela PAIZ. She was working in the
    embassy and officially in charge of taking
  • 14:31 - 14:37
    care of the company's contract and their
    work. However, she got bribed, according
  • 14:37 - 14:44
    to statements that are subject to this
    ongoing lawsuit, with 20,000 USD in cash
  • 14:44 - 14:50
    per month. She had to travel with her
    husband to some funny places to collect
  • 14:50 - 14:55
    the money to not violate European
    regulations with carrying cash and not
  • 14:55 - 15:00
    declaring it and so on. So this gives you
    roughly an idea and for that money she
  • 15:00 - 15:05
    like not only accepted the modifications
    and made it look like that modification of
  • 15:05 - 15:10
    the protocol were on behalf of Ecuador and
    not on behalf of the Americans, she also
  • 15:10 - 15:17
    spied sometimes herself, as we have seen
    her with a handbag, with a microphone and
  • 15:17 - 15:23
    all that kind of funny behaviors. The
    original Standard Operational Procedures
  • 15:23 - 15:30
    in place, as I said, was defined helping
    against intrusions. Visitors would arrive
  • 15:30 - 15:35
    at the door, show their passport, then
    would be searched with a metal detector
  • 15:35 - 15:39
    and they would have to leave their
    passport and all electronic devices at the
  • 15:39 - 15:44
    security counter under the lobby. They
    would sign in into some kind of a diary
  • 15:44 - 15:49
    with name, passport number, date, time of
    arrival, later sign out with time of their
  • 15:49 - 15:53
    departure. The guards would bring the
    visitors afterwards in the conference
  • 15:53 - 16:00
    room, close the door and then copy the
    passport while the visitors wait. And also
  • 16:00 - 16:05
    there would be daily, monthly and special
    incident reports written by the security
  • 16:05 - 16:11
    company delivered to the SENAIN, to the
    Ecuadorian intelligence. So, from the
  • 16:11 - 16:16
    visitors, what they would have is like who
    invited them, for what, what date, what
  • 16:16 - 16:21
    time frame, the copy of their passport.
    Later then, that one had modifications,
  • 16:21 - 16:26
    that was that all of their pages with
    entry stamps and visas would be
  • 16:26 - 16:32
    photocopied as well. The exact time when
    they really came, the description by the
  • 16:32 - 16:37
    security guards how they appeared: maybe
    if they came alone or with someone or it
  • 16:37 - 16:42
    was anything. Video footage of the entry
    situation, the meeting and the departure
  • 16:42 - 16:49
    situation. And as I said, extra incidents.
    So we would have a lot of material of
  • 16:49 - 16:57
    passport copies. And this is an example of
    the entrance situation from November 16.
  • 16:57 - 17:04
    This is one of the lawyers arriving. And
    you would see, he just rang the door, he
  • 17:04 - 17:16
    came in, showed his passport, got briefly
    checked. And funnily, in the upper left
  • 17:16 - 17:21
    corner, you see one of the guards doing
    some upgrades on the cameras. Same time,
  • 17:21 - 17:27
    but that's just how it was, there was
    ongoing upgrades. So I don't have to show
  • 17:27 - 17:32
    you the whole video, but here you get the
    idea. He's being searched, his phone he
  • 17:32 - 17:37
    needs to give them. The guard also briefly
    checks his bag if there's maybe a
  • 17:37 - 17:42
    recording device. So this was also to
    prevent that visitors would bring any box
  • 17:42 - 17:50
    or recording devices into the meeting. So
    it was meant to to do also like protect
  • 17:50 - 17:58
    Julian on behalf of them. This is like a
    meeting documentation. This is myself,
  • 17:58 - 18:01
    actually, but this is a little boring and
    also I'm not a fan of insinuating myself,
  • 18:01 - 18:06
    so I brought you the other one, which is
    the only positive slide I have.
  • 18:06 - 18:09
    laughter
    That's "missing in action" (M.I.A.), she's
  • 18:09 - 18:13
    a rapper from - lives in the UK - Is
    originally from Sri Lanka, but here you
  • 18:13 - 18:19
    have a cat, so that's of course more
    lovely than meeting boring data
  • 18:19 - 18:26
    journalists, hackers, whatever. The third
    party modifications for the access to the
  • 18:26 - 18:33
    whole thing started mainly in begin 2017,
    after also he switched to encrypted
  • 18:33 - 18:38
    communications. Actually, the switching to
    encrypted communication might, by the way,
  • 18:38 - 18:43
    also have to do with a regime change, so
    to say, in the United States. As the Trump
  • 18:43 - 18:48
    administration was taking in power and
    they were scared that different
  • 18:48 - 18:52
    departments would interfere with each
    other. So it became a little complicated
  • 18:52 - 18:58
    in their own thread modeling / paranoia,
    however you want to call it. They started
  • 18:58 - 19:02
    to pick up in the mid of the year the
    original hard disks from the network video
  • 19:02 - 19:07
    recorder every two weeks and bring them
    first to their office in Spain. Later,
  • 19:07 - 19:12
    Morales would then fly once a month,
    roughly, to the United States. We have his
  • 19:12 - 19:19
    flight patterns and all the emails and so
    on. And he would, yeah, deliver them, as
  • 19:19 - 19:26
    he explained to the staff, to his American
    friends and sending new instructions. Then
  • 19:26 - 19:32
    in December, they made this new cameras
    installation thing with sound and they
  • 19:32 - 19:40
    also started to optimize things. For
    example, there was issues with the audio
  • 19:40 - 19:43
    filters and the cameras, as Julian had
    used this white noise generator, which
  • 19:43 - 19:49
    will later be a little bit explained, they
    needed filter configurations. Also, the
  • 19:49 - 19:55
    Americans demanded to have direct access
    on the streams coming into the office in
  • 19:55 - 20:01
    Spain. So they installed it already in the
    embassy in a way that there would be two
  • 20:01 - 20:07
    different access layers, one not visible
    to the Ecuadorians and one only for the
  • 20:07 - 20:13
    Americans. We have... this is the one
    email I have there, I don't even speak
  • 20:13 - 20:19
    Spanish, but where he clearly speaks about
    the access to the video stream, one for
  • 20:19 - 20:24
    the Ecuadorians, one for themself and one
    for "party X". So the party X is how he
  • 20:24 - 20:33
    called in the references the American
    intelligence he worked for as well. And
  • 20:33 - 20:37
    then they started to do other things that
    they, for example, installed a door phone
  • 20:37 - 20:42
    at the door, so you couldn't just ring the
    bell and the guy would open the door, you
  • 20:42 - 20:48
    had to actually speak your name. So, and
    also the guard, which was... there was a
  • 20:48 - 20:55
    little guard desk in the lobby area of the
    building, there would sit a guy. So he would
  • 20:55 - 20:59
    hear your name. They would have your voice
    sample in the electronic transmission
  • 20:59 - 21:03
    between this little door phone and the
    counter more or less right behind the
  • 21:03 - 21:09
    door. That was something they did. Then
    the guards would start to just open the
  • 21:09 - 21:15
    door to take your passport. Take it in.
    Close the door again. You would wait
  • 21:15 - 21:20
    outside and then, in that time, he copied
    your whole passport with all pages and
  • 21:20 - 21:26
    waited for further instructions, then
    leave you in. They would... the guards
  • 21:26 - 21:32
    would start to photograph or note all
    IMEIs and IMSIs of mobile devices that
  • 21:32 - 21:37
    they took during your visit. And they
    would also sometimes take whole bags of
  • 21:37 - 21:42
    visitors and search them and photograph
    all items. So I have like three examples
  • 21:42 - 21:48
    of this: This is the most harmless maybe.
    National security correspondent of The
  • 21:48 - 21:52
    Washington Post, Ellen Nakashima's little
    collection of devices. It's my own
  • 21:52 - 21:57
    collection with some crypto phones and a
    camera. And this is Italian journalist
  • 21:57 - 22:02
    Stefania Maurizi who, for what reasons,
    wherever she travels with all her USB
  • 22:02 - 22:04
    stick collections and ...
    laughter
  • 22:04 - 22:09
    I redacted this a little bit, but you can
    clearly see they took the SIM cards out to
  • 22:09 - 22:16
    photograph the IMSIs of the cards and so
    on. So they wanted all that. Here you get
  • 22:16 - 22:29
    an idea of the meeting documentations from
    December 17th on with the new cameras,
  • 22:29 - 22:35
    which had also audio. You get the idea
    that the quality has drastically improved.
  • 22:35 - 22:40
    And here I would say if you would zoom in,
    you could even read the notes of what they
  • 22:40 - 22:47
    were writing. But well, we'll know that
    later. However, that was not enough for
  • 22:47 - 22:53
    them. They had issues, as I said, with the
    white noise generator he installed for
  • 22:53 - 22:59
    critical meetings. And they wanted
    improved audio quality, as when you didn't
  • 22:59 - 23:04
    speak loud enough, these cameras being
    mounted under the ceiling were not good
  • 23:04 - 23:11
    enough. So they made this survey to
    identify all kinds of options for
  • 23:11 - 23:18
    additional hidden microphones and also
    off-the-network equipment. So here you see
  • 23:18 - 23:22
    actually where they ended up later. This
    fire extinguisher played then the main
  • 23:22 - 23:29
    role. He has this PVC button thingy. They
    put some of the plastics out and installed
  • 23:29 - 23:35
    a bug in there. That was working
    beautifully as it was also like from the
  • 23:35 - 23:39
    room level next to the heads of the people
    speaking in that part of the room. The
  • 23:39 - 23:43
    only issue they had is that it was a
    battery driven model and they had to
  • 23:43 - 23:48
    replace the battery and SD card, which
    they did then every twelve hours, 26
  • 23:48 - 23:54
    minutes actually. That was the capacity of
    that thing. But you get the idea. They
  • 23:54 - 23:58
    looked into all of the things here on the
    left side, by the way, you see the noise
  • 23:58 - 24:04
    generator, but they looked at all the art
    objects or the kitsch stuff to see what
  • 24:04 - 24:08
    could be suitable before they identified
    it. If I distinguish, it's just the best
  • 24:08 - 24:18
    thing to do here. Here you would see that
    Julian also installed a loudspeaker next
  • 24:18 - 24:24
    to the window. So there was not only one
    loudspeaker above the table for the white
  • 24:24 - 24:30
    noise generator, but also directly at the
    window. Here you see very briefly on the
  • 24:30 - 24:35
    top the loudspeaker over the table, but
    they're also opened during the survey, like
  • 24:35 - 24:40
    all the electrical wiring things, the
    light switches and so on, to see if there
  • 24:40 - 24:46
    would be any suitable places. And they
    also did that in the bathroom number two.
  • 24:46 - 24:52
    Bathroom number two was originally the
    woman's bathroom, which also had a shower.
  • 24:52 - 24:57
    It was then later, more or less Julian's
    personal bathroom, where he also made the
  • 24:57 - 25:02
    most critical meetings with his lawyers
    and and associates while running the
  • 25:02 - 25:09
    shower, as you would see it in every
    better spy movie. However, what they did
  • 25:09 - 25:15
    was, behind the rubbish that you would see
    here, these boxes above the cabinet and
  • 25:15 - 25:21
    slightly behind that cabinet, they had an
    electrical wiring for the light. So they
  • 25:21 - 25:24
    installed a bug there and that didn't
    require any battery change or whatever
  • 25:24 - 25:31
    that brought ongoing good audio quality.
    They also went through the kitchen objects
  • 25:31 - 25:36
    and at this point they must have been
    infected by the WikiLeaks house humor,
  • 25:36 - 25:46
    however they would bark at that kind of
    thing. The other aspect that Morales
  • 25:46 - 25:50
    discussed with the staff working in the
    embassy once when he came back from his
  • 25:50 - 25:56
    travels was that he asked them if they
    could think about a way where they would
  • 25:56 - 26:02
    accidentally leave one of the doors open
    so that the Americans could come in and
  • 26:02 - 26:09
    kidnap him. He also discussed if they
    could put into some poison into the food
  • 26:09 - 26:14
    or how that... what options there would be
    to poison Julian. However, the sting with
  • 26:14 - 26:19
    the leaving the door accidentally opened,
    next to the fact that that, of course,
  • 26:19 - 26:23
    would be completely legal, like in an
    embassy of another country to kidnap
  • 26:23 - 26:27
    someone from, but well, this is the
    Central Intelligence Agency or someone of
  • 26:27 - 26:33
    the United States, what do they care about
    laws? So what they did was provide
  • 26:33 - 26:39
    documentation of all the doors, all the
    locks. They went through the whole thing
  • 26:39 - 26:44
    to think about how such a kidnaping take
    place. They even made a little video
  • 26:44 - 26:49
    showing, like, the way they could move
    from this emergency exit or from a window
  • 26:49 - 26:59
    and get in. So I have this little video
    and you get here the idea of the way it
  • 26:59 - 27:05
    could work. And yes, the reflections allow
    us to identify the person who did it. So
  • 27:05 - 27:09
    this is actually just one of three videos
    we have about this. They also did this for
  • 27:09 - 27:15
    the rooms in the back and so on, as they
    also considered maybe going through in one
  • 27:15 - 27:23
    of the windows, which would be more easy
    for them to leave open a door. So this is
  • 27:23 - 27:34
    still part of that plan. I can name all
    the doors, windows, identify some kind of
  • 27:34 - 27:42
    rain tube or whatever, which they could
    use to maybe come from above. Label all
  • 27:42 - 27:48
    the windows, to get an idea. So what they
    did in 2017 was then these two bugs, the
  • 27:48 - 27:54
    hidden microphones and recording devices
    in the fire extinguisher and in this...
  • 27:54 - 28:00
    behind, above this storage cabinet and the
    bathroom. And they did installation of
  • 28:00 - 28:05
    high resolution cameras plus the
    microphones. They, however, also discussed
  • 28:05 - 28:11
    that they wanted one more room. That's the
    front room where Julian had... it's the
  • 28:11 - 28:17
    former library, where he had a bit of a
    room not for visitors, but to work with
  • 28:17 - 28:24
    himself and with his staff. That room was
    a little bit hard for them to target. They
  • 28:24 - 28:27
    would have to be going through the
    ambassador's room, which was corresponding
  • 28:27 - 28:34
    to it. So they looked into stetographic -
    excuse me - steto-whatever, steto-
  • 28:34 - 28:42
    microphones to watch through the, no, to
    listen through the wall. In order to do
  • 28:42 - 28:47
    that, the Americans also asked them to
    take like a spoon or a knife and bring
  • 28:47 - 28:52
    them some scratch some parts of the wall
    so that they could identify the material
  • 28:52 - 28:57
    from which the wall was made in order to
    identify which drilling machine they would
  • 28:57 - 29:01
    have to use. They have extremely slow
    drilling machines, which you put in a
  • 29:01 - 29:07
    suitcase next to a wall. And it takes
    eight hours for three centimeters, but it
  • 29:07 - 29:12
    makes no noise. Okay. And that's the way
    they would have used this kind of things.
  • 29:12 - 29:18
    Here again, it's just the places that
    hidden microphones. And here is some, as
  • 29:18 - 29:24
    they documented their work, here is some
    video documentation or photographic
  • 29:24 - 29:30
    documentation of the installation of the
    upgrades of the camera with audio. So this
  • 29:30 - 29:38
    is the upgraded diagram of the camera
    installation. You would see all the
  • 29:38 - 29:45
    interior cameras are four megapixels now.
    And the conference room has two. So in
  • 29:45 - 29:51
    both corresponding sides to cover really
    the whole room. So I don't switch back and
  • 29:51 - 29:54
    forth now between the other slides, but
    you would have seen that there would still
  • 29:54 - 29:58
    have been small areas of the room which
    were not covered. This was like full room
  • 29:58 - 30:06
    coverage of wherever he would be allowed
    to go to. So this noise generator however
  • 30:06 - 30:11
    that Julian installed, made them quite
    some headache, it worked pretty well.
  • 30:11 - 30:18
    However, other people pointed out to me
    also, and it is true, if you sit in a room
  • 30:18 - 30:23
    with this white noise generator, you get
    headache. It's not nice. I mean, yes, it
  • 30:23 - 30:30
    works and it prevents them bugging it, but
    it's also pretty tough to do that for one,
  • 30:30 - 30:38
    two hours. However, the American friends
    had issues with it and they already had
  • 30:38 - 30:47
    started to bug the embassy from the
    outside with laser reflecting microphones,
  • 30:47 - 30:53
    meaning the vibrations on the glass or the
    windows would be used. But as his white
  • 30:53 - 30:57
    noise generator had a loudspeaker directed
    to the window, they needed to deal with
  • 30:57 - 31:01
    that. And they instructed to install
    special stickers which will be - there
  • 31:01 - 31:06
    will be actually in the next days a police
    situation, the Ecuadorians have allowed to
  • 31:06 - 31:10
    take one of these stickers. They have a
    kind of foam on the one side and a
  • 31:10 - 31:18
    reflecting blank side that allowed them to
    do it anyhow. So you would have this thing
  • 31:18 - 31:22
    here and here. Unfortunately, I do not
    have, at this point, a very good picture
  • 31:22 - 31:28
    of this sticker itself. But you would see
    here their documentation that they
  • 31:28 - 31:31
    installed in every window, not only that
    of the conference room, one of these
  • 31:31 - 31:37
    stickers that allowed them to deal with a
    laser on site. And actually their
  • 31:37 - 31:42
    outside camera, the 8 megapixel monster I
    mentioned earlier, catched once the
  • 31:42 - 31:48
    Americans on the other side of the street
    when their curtain was a little bit to the
  • 31:48 - 32:02
    side here with their laser machine. So you
    get the idea, that is not a camera. There
  • 32:02 - 32:06
    is, of course, other things that happened
    as well. This slide is more actually for
  • 32:06 - 32:12
    your entertainment after a rather
    depressive technical text. They also did
  • 32:12 - 32:23
    sometimes normal things. It was not only
    spying on behalf of the Americans. But
  • 32:23 - 32:30
    most important and most impressive is
    actually what happened on end of 2017. End
  • 32:30 - 32:36
    of 2017 the government of Ecuador - the
    new government - had already been elected,
  • 32:36 - 32:42
    but the new government was not in office.
    So as one of the last steps of the old
  • 32:42 - 32:47
    government to solve his situation, they
    gave him, they gave Julian Ecuadorian
  • 32:47 - 32:53
    citizenship. They made him a diplomat. And
    they had pre-agreed with some countries,
  • 32:53 - 33:00
    which he could choose from, to actually
    appoint him as a diplomat to one of their
  • 33:00 - 33:07
    other embassies where he would not have
    that hostile environment surrounding it.
  • 33:07 - 33:13
    On the 21st of December he met in the
    embassy the head of the Ecuadorian
  • 33:13 - 33:18
    intelligence Romy Vallejo. I have one
    picture from that meeting. The meeting, of
  • 33:18 - 33:25
    course, was completely intercepted. The
    Americans were on high alert and actually,
  • 33:25 - 33:32
    after he used a white noise generator and
    located himself with a guy slightly away
  • 33:32 - 33:39
    from the fire extinguisher, by knowing or
    not knowing about it, the guards even were
  • 33:39 - 33:47
    asked to like stand in front of the door
    and listen through the door and stuff. The
  • 33:47 - 33:52
    same night, actually, so this was, as you
    could see at the time, it's like 3, 4
  • 33:52 - 33:56
    o'clock at night, it went on for some
    time. The next day, they issued the
  • 33:56 - 34:01
    international arrest warrant against
    Julian. They inform the British and the
  • 34:01 - 34:06
    British informed the Ecuadorians that they
    would not accept the appointing of Julian
  • 34:06 - 34:13
    as a diplomat. And so the whole plan was
    dismissed and massive police came, like
  • 34:13 - 34:19
    standing in front of, like, on this little
    side street right from it. So this is
  • 34:19 - 34:23
    where the term actionable intelligence has
    like a direct meaning that you can
  • 34:23 - 34:30
    actually talk to your coffee cup and next
    moment shit happes, so to illustrate that.
  • 34:30 - 34:37
    At the end, I brought you some resource
    links. This is, as I said, ongoing cases.
  • 34:37 - 34:41
    There will be more material and it will
    probably make us a little bit of a case
  • 34:41 - 34:47
    study out of it published at bug planet.
    If you are interested or willing to
  • 34:47 - 34:53
    support his legal and other situations at
    Wau Holland Foundation, which I am a board
  • 34:53 - 34:57
    member, and that's also what brought me to
    all these meetings, we do collect money
  • 34:57 - 35:05
    for Julian's defense and also for ongoing
    aspects of WikiLeaks publications. Okay.
  • 35:05 - 35:11
    That's for me, from my side, for now. We
    have a bit of time left for questions and
  • 35:11 - 35:15
    answers. If I just knew how much, like 20
    minutes or so?
  • 35:15 - 35:19
    Herald: We have about 20 minutes. We will
    be taking questions and we have three
  • 35:19 - 35:24
    microphones in the room. So please line up
    behind them and we take questions from the
  • 35:24 - 35:27
    Internet as well. The signal angel is
    (...).
  • 35:30 - 35:37
    Andy: The sticker. Oh, yes, sorry, I
    forgot to mention that the stickers on the
  • 35:37 - 35:46
    windows were saying, like, this building
    is under CCTV, under camera surveillance.
  • 35:46 - 35:50
    And Morales had told his people that, oh,
    the British law has changed and they would
  • 35:50 - 35:56
    require to have the stickers now, which
    is, of course, completely ridiculous. Also
  • 35:56 - 36:01
    watching the cover frame of their outside
    cameras, like there would have to actually
  • 36:01 - 36:05
    go all over the place there and tell them,
    oh, by the way, your're under
  • 36:05 - 36:09
    surveillance. So, yeah, that was indeed
    remarkable. Awesome.
  • 36:11 - 36:15
    Herald: Thank you. Let's give a round of
    applause.
  • 36:15 - 36:24
    applause
  • 36:24 - 36:26
    Herald: Thank you again for the very
  • 36:26 - 36:33
    insightful talk. We are taking questions,
    so stand behind the microphones. Please go
  • 36:33 - 36:37
    ahead. We have questions from the
    internet.
  • 36:37 - 36:42
    Andy: At this case I would not only be
    open to questions, but also to ideas, how
  • 36:42 - 36:45
    to get him out of Belmarsh Prison, but
    just to have it said.
  • 36:45 - 36:50
    Herald: OK, you can have that, you know.
    We're gonna take a question from the
  • 36:50 - 36:52
    Internet.
    Signal Angel: Yeah, just one brief
  • 36:52 - 36:59
    question from the Internet: What is that
    laser with sticker technology. And
  • 36:59 - 37:03
    furthermore, what's its purpose? So why
    are they needed?
  • 37:03 - 37:07
    Andy: Okay. Maybe I wasn't making it clear
    enough. The stickers would have a
  • 37:07 - 37:14
    reflecting surface to the outside, but the
    way they're glued to the window would
  • 37:14 - 37:23
    somehow detach them from the inside noise.
    I don't know how it works at this point in
  • 37:23 - 37:28
    that detail. We will have one of these
    stickers in the next weeks and we'll be
  • 37:28 - 37:33
    able to study it. But it somehow seemed to
    help the Americans with their laser
  • 37:33 - 37:41
    technology to take the audio from the
    vibration of the voice generated or
  • 37:41 - 37:44
    transported through the glass out the
    window.
  • 37:45 - 37:51
    Herald: Thank you. It appears we have no
    more questions or everyone's too scared to
  • 37:51 - 37:55
    ask one. We are distributing face masks if
    that's the case.
  • 37:55 - 37:59
    Andy: Maybe I want to...
    Herald: There is there someone. Hi. You're
  • 37:59 - 38:04
    brave. Go ahead.
    Q: Can you hear me? Hello?
  • 38:04 - 38:08
    A: Yes
    Q: OK. Without revealing your source, how
  • 38:08 - 38:12
    did you even get all this information? So
    the video surveillance cameras and all
  • 38:12 - 38:17
    these details?
    A: Well, subject to lawyers advice, my
  • 38:17 - 38:21
    answer is that I'm an investigative
    journalist and I don't talk about my
  • 38:21 - 38:27
    methods and sources, but I leave it up to
    your fantasy as I said this material is
  • 38:27 - 38:32
    subject to an ongoing lawsuit. So it is
    also in the hands of the Spanish
  • 38:32 - 38:39
    prosecutor. And maybe just very little
    comment because I discuss this also with
  • 38:39 - 38:46
    Julian and others. I would have to say it.
    Let's say before I went all too deep into
  • 38:46 - 38:53
    this and actually looked at this material
    for hours and hours and days, I would, of
  • 38:53 - 39:00
    course, also have called Julian and myself
    paranoid people. But after I did this, I
  • 39:00 - 39:03
    would call it, well, we had a good
    situational awareness, because that's the
  • 39:03 - 39:09
    more precise terminology where we are
    into.
  • 39:09 - 39:18
    applause
    Herald: Next question, same microphone.
  • 39:18 - 39:24
    Q: In the beginning, you said there are
    multiple embassies inside the building. My
  • 39:24 - 39:29
    question is: The hallway, is it actually
    part of Great Britain or is it some
  • 39:29 - 39:34
    neutral area?
    A: Well, no, it's part of Great Britain.
  • 39:34 - 39:43
    So the hallway was just shared among the
    building tenants, but all of the
  • 39:43 - 39:48
    apartments so to say in that building are
    private property. So it was like a shared
  • 39:48 - 39:52
    thing of the building. There's maybe a
    better English term, which I don't know.
  • 39:52 - 39:58
    But the diplomatic police, which is the
    maybe better educated part of the British
  • 39:58 - 40:08
    hit and run job police guys would not be
    allowed normally to step in the embassy.
  • 40:08 - 40:14
    But in the hallway, they sometimes were in
    the hallway right in front of the door. So
  • 40:14 - 40:18
    they would also listen to the dialog when
    you were talking to the guard about coming
  • 40:18 - 40:24
    in or whatever. And of course, there was
    in the first months of his stay or even
  • 40:24 - 40:29
    years, there was this ongoing police
    situation. It was actually the police had
  • 40:29 - 40:34
    sometimes, in winter, they must have got a
    bit cold and installed a van there, saying
  • 40:34 - 40:40
    "police conference", which was probably
    suitable for 12 people, had fancy antennas
  • 40:40 - 40:45
    and cameras all over it. So they had this
    ongoing police conference right in front
  • 40:45 - 40:48
    of the building.
    laughter
  • 40:48 - 40:51
    Herald: Thank you. We're going to take a
    question from the Internet next.
  • 40:51 - 40:57
    Signal Angel: All right. Have you been
    approached by the CIA or the MI5 or met
  • 40:57 - 41:02
    the police and been asked to cease and
    desist from talking about their operation
  • 41:02 - 41:05
    against Julian Assange and the embassy
    itself?
  • 41:05 - 41:10
    A: Not in a direct way that they talk to
    me, but I've been subject to what I would
  • 41:10 - 41:15
    call "intimidation surveillance". So there
    is covert surveillance, that's when they
  • 41:15 - 41:21
    are hiding their stuff and you see maybe a
    camera at a border point or whatever.
  • 41:21 - 41:25
    Intimidation starts for me when I'm, for
    example, coming in the early morning hours
  • 41:25 - 41:31
    to airport London-Heathrow, come to the
    immigration counter, the guy takes my
  • 41:31 - 41:35
    passport, sees something on the screen,
    starts to ask me actually the same
  • 41:35 - 41:40
    question three times, but he doesn't even
    listen to my answers. Like, where are you
  • 41:40 - 41:45
    going? What's your occupation? He's asking
    it again and I'm like, am I talking to a
  • 41:45 - 41:49
    moron or what's going wrong here? But at
    some point I identified as it happened
  • 41:49 - 41:54
    again and again and again that after some
    minutes you got this go material, this go
  • 41:54 - 41:59
    blink on his screen. And so the guys
    outside were standing ready to follow me
  • 41:59 - 42:04
    the whole fucking day. And that's what I
    would call intimidation surveillance. It's
  • 42:04 - 42:11
    not meant to like watch me. It's mainly
    meant to let you know that you are not
  • 42:11 - 42:16
    liked here, that we are have you on our
    eyes, that we know you are a friend of
  • 42:16 - 42:21
    Julian and so on. So, yeah, that was not
    the pleasant part of my life.
  • 42:21 - 42:28
    Herald: Thank you. Microphone one.
    Q: Yeah. First. Thank you. Nice talk, very
  • 42:28 - 42:34
    dystopian. I'm just following up on what
    you just said. I mean, chances are high
  • 42:34 - 42:38
    that you are under surveillance as well.
    What are the personal countermeasures
  • 42:38 - 42:41
    you've taken? Did you check your fire
    extinguisher?
  • 42:41 - 42:48
    A: Yeah, actually, I could and should
    probably at some point in the next month
  • 42:48 - 42:55
    hold a separate talk about that. I found a
    physical bug in one of my phones. I have
  • 42:55 - 43:01
    all kinds of funny incidents. I was able
    to actually create traffic jams in one way
  • 43:01 - 43:06
    streets in European cities at three
    o'clock in the night and that's quite an
  • 43:06 - 43:13
    interesting experience.
    laughter applause
  • 43:13 - 43:18
    A: And at some point, you maybe get used
    to it. You think, well, ok, that's how it
  • 43:18 - 43:29
    is. But of course, it is a bit of a loss
    of quality of life. And also, you are
  • 43:29 - 43:34
    becoming a little bit different in your
    behavior towards other people. But as I
  • 43:34 - 43:40
    said, unfortunately it's situational
    awareness, so you can't be careful enough
  • 43:40 - 43:47
    in such a situation. Basically, if you
    look at it from a balance of budget or
  • 43:47 - 43:55
    balance of measures or options point of
    view, they have an endless astronomy
  • 43:55 - 44:06
    military budget. We have encrypted e-mail,
    OTR and may be crypto phones. So basically
  • 44:06 - 44:11
    my assumption has become that they know
    what I'm doing and I'm not doing anything
  • 44:11 - 44:16
    illegal anyhow. But the whole case against
    Julian and after you have studied all this
  • 44:16 - 44:21
    material, which includes the pictures of
    the bathroom, right, there was an audio
  • 44:21 - 44:26
    bug also in the bathroom area and so on
    with these cameras. And I think for me,
  • 44:26 - 44:32
    it's pretty clear this is not about him
    having violated any laws. This has nothing
  • 44:32 - 44:38
    to do with law enforcement. This is a
    political case. This is intimidation. And
  • 44:38 - 44:42
    it is that they want to set that
    precedent, that they want to actually hang
  • 44:42 - 44:46
    him on the highest tree. And let us all
    aware: Don't try to connect the Internet
  • 44:46 - 44:52
    with the secrets as we don't like that.
    But actually, on the positive side,
  • 44:52 - 44:59
    speaking as I said, he has shown with
    WikiLeaks that it is possible the Internet
  • 44:59 - 45:07
    is quite suitable to deal and to provide
    more aspects of information and knowledge
  • 45:07 - 45:15
    on government secrets actings to all of
    us. So, yes, it comes at a price.
  • 45:15 - 45:18
    Herald: Okay. This is getting more
    dystopian by the minute.
  • 45:18 - 45:20
    Andy: Sorry for that.
    Herald: Let's see if we can go even
  • 45:20 - 45:24
    scarier. Microphone two.
    Andy: I'm sure there will be other talks
  • 45:24 - 45:29
    about good news.
    Herald: Oh, no. No, there won't.
  • 45:31 - 45:35
    Q: Thank you so much for the presentation.
    The details like were really important.
  • 45:35 - 45:39
    Like to see, you know, have a concrete
    image of what surveillance looks like in
  • 45:39 - 45:44
    the embassy. And as you mentioned, all
    what happened was in complicity with the
  • 45:44 - 45:50
    Ecuadorian embassy, even if also you said
    that it's not really related to law
  • 45:50 - 45:55
    enforcement, I'm really curious from legal
    perspective, if there is any way and if
  • 45:55 - 46:01
    there are ongoing cases, if there is any
    way they could get away with it. Are there
  • 46:01 - 46:06
    any things that they can do or defend or
    argument just to make this okay? I don't
  • 46:06 - 46:10
    know, national security reasons, whatever
    not considered, you know, is a violation.
  • 46:10 - 46:16
    A: OK. So what I can say is that the
    Spanish lawyers of Julian are currently
  • 46:16 - 46:23
    with high pressure also working together
    with the state prosecutor and examine the
  • 46:23 - 46:30
    evidence. So the owner of the company was
    briefly arrested. He's out on bail. His
  • 46:30 - 46:37
    company compound was searched. Computers,
    USBs, hard disks were seized and so on.
  • 46:37 - 46:41
    And that's all stuff that's being worked
    on right now, because it might be very
  • 46:41 - 46:48
    important for Julian's main extradition
    case, as it clearly demonstrates that the
  • 46:48 - 46:55
    United States or some entities of the
    United States are being located in the
  • 46:55 - 47:02
    United States, have violated his ability
    to prepare legal defense in a fair way.
  • 47:02 - 47:09
    And that might be a main argument.
    However, when - and I've been talking a
  • 47:09 - 47:14
    lot with this lawyers - like they say
    things like in any normal case, this would
  • 47:14 - 47:19
    be the end. But this is Julian Assange and
    the U.K. government on behalf of the
  • 47:19 - 47:24
    American government, so we'll see what
    happens. No one expects a fair trial here.
  • 47:24 - 47:29
    And I mean, also the fact that he's kept
    in solitary confinement for 22 hours a day
  • 47:29 - 47:33
    in a high security prison that's normally
    for terrorists, organized crime and
  • 47:33 - 47:40
    murderers, while being none of that, shows
    clearly that this is like not a normal
  • 47:40 - 47:46
    case here. This has nothing to do with
    normal justice. The United Kingdom ignores
  • 47:46 - 47:52
    the United Nations finding on torture
    about his psychological state, as he has
  • 47:52 - 47:56
    been, of course, through a totally
    different journey. For him, it was not
  • 47:56 - 48:02
    only knowing about this surveillance, it
    was also the unknown of: can I ever expect
  • 48:02 - 48:07
    a fair trial, will they want to kill me or
    will it just be orange based jumps in
  • 48:07 - 48:15
    Gitmo or whatever? So he, of course, has
    issues through that, but the UK ignores
  • 48:15 - 48:21
    the United Nations, so in theory we should
    all be outraged completely and stand in
  • 48:21 - 48:28
    front of these British embassies for the
    moment, to do, to demand that his prison
  • 48:28 - 48:35
    conditions are being humanized. As totally
    independent from the fact, if the court
  • 48:35 - 48:40
    will find him guilty or if the extradition
    bill plays, the fear is that he is kind of
  • 48:40 - 48:46
    being killed right now as we speak.
    Herald: Thank you. Microphone two.
  • 48:46 - 48:52
    Q: Hi. Do you know if that Spanish company
    is still responsible for the security
  • 48:52 - 48:55
    installation at the Ecuadorian embassy in
    London?
  • 48:55 - 49:02
    A: No. Maybe I missed that slide. They
    have been brought out of their... the
  • 49:02 - 49:08
    contract has been canceled in April of
    2018 and this other company, Promsecurity,
  • 49:08 - 49:12
    took over.
    Herald: Thank you. One more question...
  • 49:12 - 49:16
    A: What I can say is that some of the -
    that's maybe an important aspect - as some
  • 49:16 - 49:22
    of the employees of UC Global, which have
    been working in the embassy and had their
  • 49:22 - 49:29
    eight hour shifts there, have become
    protected witnesses of the Spanish justice
  • 49:29 - 49:35
    to testify against Morales. They were not
    happy with what they were doing. They
  • 49:35 - 49:39
    understood at some point that this was on
    behalf of American intelligence, violating
  • 49:39 - 49:44
    the official contract they had been
    working under. So there was some
  • 49:44 - 49:51
    resistance. There is the option that some
    of this resistance also had to do, that
  • 49:51 - 49:55
    the owner of the company got a lot of
    money every month for this, but did not
  • 49:55 - 50:02
    share that money. That might have played
    into it. But some of these guys also were
  • 50:02 - 50:06
    not happy as they were like sitting in the
    same rooms with Julian the whole day and
  • 50:06 - 50:11
    talked with him, of course, also.
    Herald: Thank you. One more question from
  • 50:11 - 50:17
    the Internet. Hi, Internet people.
    Signal Angel: How do you explain the huge
  • 50:17 - 50:22
    effort besides the intimidation you
    mentioned towards you that motivates the
  • 50:22 - 50:29
    USA to take these dubious and very
    ambitious steps. So maybe just to ask you
  • 50:29 - 50:34
    one more question to you, sir: How many
    intelligence officers do you think then
  • 50:34 - 50:36
    are in this room right now?
  • 50:36 - 50:38
    laughter
  • 50:39 - 50:42
    A: Okay. So the first question was, I'm
  • 50:42 - 50:50
    not sure I fully got it: Why they are
    doing this? Well, I mean, I could also
  • 50:50 - 50:53
    have introduced me the other way. I could
    have said, I don't need to introduce
  • 50:53 - 51:02
    myself. Go to the Mueller Report, see page
    47. I was suspected due to my multiple
  • 51:02 - 51:07
    visits and actually, look, I brought
    Julian food, I brought him clothing, I
  • 51:07 - 51:13
    brought him computers, USB sticks in like
    packages, all kinds of things. I will
  • 51:13 - 51:18
    never be able to prove what I not brought
    him due to the amounts of my visits there.
  • 51:18 - 51:23
    So the Washington Post came at some point
    and said that they had multiple
  • 51:23 - 51:28
    intelligence sources from somewhere that I
    was the person who brought Julian the DNC
  • 51:28 - 51:32
    emails on a USB stick and I said like,
    wow, what a bullshit. But as I said, I
  • 51:32 - 51:37
    will never be able to prove that I wasn't
    doing that. My taking off it is as I am in
  • 51:37 - 51:40
    a small foundation called Wau Holland
    Foundation, one of the five board members,
  • 51:40 - 51:46
    and actually I'm kind of working in that
    project area for freedom of information
  • 51:46 - 51:51
    that I was to contact prison to weekly
    send to Julian for many years. So they
  • 51:51 - 51:54
    maybe just to follow the money and want to
    kill it. I mean, would not be a surprise
  • 51:54 - 51:59
    that they want to kill like WikiLeaks else
    as a publication agency or not. Julian
  • 51:59 - 52:04
    Assange only as a human being. So here you
    go. One theory. There's, of course, many
  • 52:04 - 52:08
    others, but I guess they're pretty
    generous. And the budget they have to deal
  • 52:08 - 52:12
    with is pretty big. So, and of course, I'm
    not the only one that's being followed and
  • 52:12 - 52:16
    so on. The other question was...?
    Herald: How many intelligence officers
  • 52:16 - 52:19
    that we have here in this room?
    drumming on panel
  • 52:19 - 52:23
    laughter
  • 52:23 - 52:29
    A: Out there on the stream, I see 23
    different. In the room, five to eight.
  • 52:30 - 52:32

    Herald: I think that guy
    walks a bit sketchy.
  • 52:32 - 52:33

    laughter
  • 52:33 - 52:36
    Herald: He's wearing a headset.
    He's been quiet the entire time.
  • 52:36 - 52:42
    applause
  • 52:42 - 52:44
    A: What can I say? I mean, openness
  • 52:44 - 52:53
    protects from from being blackmailed.
    Maybe that was Wau's idea about it. But of
  • 52:53 - 52:58
    course, not all aspects of WikiLeaks can
    be subject to full disclosure as there's
  • 52:58 - 53:02
    sources to protect, there's people who
    have lives to protect, who help with all
  • 53:02 - 53:08
    kinds of things. There's journalists who
    sometimes bring more things from funny
  • 53:08 - 53:12
    sources, so there's all kinds of things
    that as a media project you would want to
  • 53:12 - 53:16
    protect normally. Under the circumstances,
    however, it's a bit tough.
  • 53:16 - 53:21
    Herald: OK. Thank you. There is a person
    next to microphone one and I don't
  • 53:21 - 53:24
    understand if you actually have a
    question, are you there to (...)
  • 53:24 - 53:27
    A: An answer maybe?
    Herald: You have a question?
  • 53:27 - 53:29
    Q: Yes
    Herald: Are you CIA?
  • 53:29 - 53:32
    Q: I hope not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    laughter
  • 53:32 - 53:34
    Herald: OK, we're not interested.
    Microphone two
  • 53:34 - 53:38
    laughter
  • 53:38 - 53:39
    A: It's a little too brutal, maybe?
  • 53:39 - 53:44
    Q: OK. Thank you. Are there actually any
    diplomatic consequences out of this case?
  • 53:44 - 53:49
    Because like the CIA, with the help of the
    British government, kind of violated the
  • 53:49 - 53:55
    embassy of Ecuador, so, like, installing
    cameras is not exactly ok for my
  • 53:55 - 53:58
    understanding and for embassies?
  • 54:00 - 54:05
    A: Well, I would think that in any normal
  • 54:05 - 54:10
    European country, there would also be
    investigation, like, official
  • 54:10 - 54:13
    investigation, maybe even by other
    embassies in the building and so on after
  • 54:13 - 54:19
    learning these things. The U.K. seems to
    have just decided not only to get out of
  • 54:19 - 54:23
    European Union, but also to become more of
    a colony of the United States, if they
  • 54:23 - 54:29
    have not been that all the time. So I
    don't have the impression also with the
  • 54:29 - 54:33
    fact that the current Ecuadorian
    government is very pro US, they have
  • 54:33 - 54:40
    allowed military installations from the
    United States in Ecuador. They have made
  • 54:40 - 54:48
    this agreement to help them in the investigation.
    So not that I'm aware of. However, this
  • 54:48 - 54:54
    Spanish investigation is probably the
    strongest thing going on. There have been
  • 54:54 - 55:02
    contradicting statements about involvement
    of Secret Service people, CIA people,
  • 55:02 - 55:10
    might be a mixture of both of them. But
    this is ongoing. And if you ... these
  • 55:10 - 55:15
    links here is my own little wiki called
    osint.info where I'm collecting the
  • 55:15 - 55:19
    regular updates coming in from the
    investigation through the Spanish news and
  • 55:19 - 55:24
    so on. So you will learn more about the
    case in the next weeks. It's all ongoing.
  • 55:24 - 55:28
    Herald: Thank you. OK, the guy who's
    supposedly not CIA, go!
  • 55:28 - 55:33
    Q: So I want to make clear that I never
    received any direct payments from the CIA.
  • 55:33 - 55:36
    laughter
    Q: My question is...
  • 55:36 - 55:40
    A: No, but that's... that's, by the way,
    the nature of them. So I would be very
  • 55:40 - 55:42
    surprised...
    more laughter
  • 55:42 - 55:45
    applause
    A: I would be very surprised that we find
  • 55:45 - 55:50
    evidence, because one of the core working
    principle of the intelligence is of course
  • 55:50 - 55:56
    deniability. So if you have a situation
    like this where you see funny money is
  • 55:56 - 56:02
    coming in and finding instructions come
    in, but you cannot prove who it was,
  • 56:02 - 56:06
    that's exactly the confirmation and, so to
    say, the "proof", because you can't prove
  • 56:06 - 56:14
    it. That deniability is core of their like
    way of acting. And I mean, whom, by the
  • 56:14 - 56:18
    way, am I telling this. It's not only
    them. OK.
  • 56:18 - 56:22
    Herald: I always thought you kind of
    create an invoice for covert spy
  • 56:22 - 56:24
    activity...
    A: Yes, they did at some point, but the
  • 56:24 - 56:29
    guy was greedy. He traveled then, what we
    know is he traveled to Gibraltar and there
  • 56:29 - 56:34
    might be hidden bank accounts there. And
    also the way the cash was transferred
  • 56:34 - 56:40
    changed from time to time. So, there
    was... not all of it seems to have been
  • 56:40 - 56:46
    going directly through Sheldon Adelson,
    but Sheldon Adelson is - actually I missed
  • 56:46 - 56:51
    him to put him out on a link - he's a
    person also worth checking out, is a very
  • 56:51 - 56:56
    weird international intelligence
    operative, I would call him . And he can
  • 56:56 - 57:01
    sue me for that, but he's 92 years old, so
    he's a cover anyhow just for other people
  • 57:01 - 57:06
    active. He runs casinos in Las Vegas, in
    Macao and other places. He has been
  • 57:06 - 57:12
    running spy operations on Chinese
    officials in Macao, he has been accused,
  • 57:12 - 57:18
    look Wikipedia, on money laundering from
    forged USD notes printed in Iran, was not
  • 57:18 - 57:24
    Korean paper or the other way around being
    brought in by Israeli citizen in a funny
  • 57:24 - 57:29
    operation. So he's a truly interesting
    person in this context also.
  • 57:30 - 57:36
    Herald: So I thought you just send it to
    invoices@cia.gov and then get it. OK.
  • 57:36 - 57:38
    A: Try it
    laughter
  • 57:38 - 57:42
    Herald: Yeah.
    A: Try it, and put the...
  • 57:42 - 57:45
    laughter
  • 57:46 - 57:48
    A: No, actually, I would also have a lot
  • 57:48 - 57:52
    of funny fantasy about this, if this
    wouldn't be about a friend of mine who's
  • 57:52 - 57:57
    in serious shit. So, if you could please
    also apply your fantasy of how we could
  • 57:57 - 58:02
    get out him there, not only into the
    question of how we deal with the CIA, I
  • 58:02 - 58:07
    would be very thankful to you guys.
    Herald: Thank you. Definitely not try any
  • 58:07 - 58:10
    of that at home. Question from the
    Internet, please.
  • 58:10 - 58:12
    laughter
  • 58:12 - 58:14
    Signal Angel: The Internet asks, what will
  • 58:14 - 58:19
    happen to WikiLeaks as an organization in
    case Assange gets a life sentence? And,
  • 58:19 - 58:22
    since I'm not sure this is the last
    question from the Internet, the Internet
  • 58:22 - 58:27
    wants to say that it really appreciates
    your willingness to do the talk again. So,
  • 58:27 - 58:38
    thank you for your courage.
    applause
  • 58:38 - 58:43
    A: I'm not speaking for WikiLeaks, but I
    am in contact with Kristinn Hrafnsson - he
  • 58:43 - 58:47
    has this Icelandic name that's hard to
    pronounce - who is the current editor in
  • 58:47 - 58:52
    chief and I mean, WikiLeaks is publishing
    things ongoing. The last publication was
  • 58:52 - 58:58
    actually two days ago on the 27th or
    something, so they, of course, decided to
  • 58:58 - 59:04
    continue the work. Also, because they
    think that's the only thing they can do to
  • 59:04 - 59:11
    demonstrate also that, like, this is a
    publishing organization and they have been
  • 59:11 - 59:17
    working with media partners and so on. So
    in Iceland, where Kristinn is officially
  • 59:17 - 59:22
    located, the surrounding environments,
    anyhow, are a lot more supportive, as the
  • 59:22 - 59:26
    other day, some years ago, when this
    Kaupthing Bank issue and they had a local
  • 59:26 - 59:31
    bank corruption issue and that was a
    national scandal. It's a small country of
  • 59:31 - 59:34
    300,000 people, that's a totally different
    environment and Kristinn is pretty
  • 59:34 - 59:40
    confident that they leave him in peace
    there and appreciate the work. So that's
  • 59:40 - 59:47
    not the UK, but for the UK itself, well, I
    cannot speak and I can also not speak for
  • 59:47 - 59:53
    WikiLeaks. If anyone on the Internet has
    good ideas on what to do, as I said, this
  • 59:53 - 59:59
    is maybe the phase where we really need to
    crowdsource our ideas on how to get Julian
  • 59:59 - 60:04
    out of this shit. Thank you.
    Herald: Thank you
  • 60:04 - 60:09
    applause
  • 60:09 - 60:15
    Herald: Do we take a question from the guy
    who was definitely not CIA? OK go.
  • 60:16 - 60:18
    Q: So we have suspected for a long time
  • 60:18 - 60:23
    that there was a secret request for
    extradition for Julian and that he was
  • 60:23 - 60:28
    under surveillance, but there was no proof
    until now. So the general public and most
  • 60:28 - 60:33
    journalists dismissed this as conspiracy
    theories. Now that it's out, everyone
  • 60:33 - 60:37
    agrees, ok, that this was obvious, so...
    A: This was a situational awareness, yes.
  • 60:37 - 60:43
    Q: Yeah. So how can we help the next
    Julian, which we are not sure yet that
  • 60:43 - 60:49
    he's definitely under surveillance, to
    raise awareness of such a situation?
  • 60:49 - 60:59
    A: Well, I mean, in theory, as far as I
    know, the publishing activities of
  • 60:59 - 61:06
    WikiLeaks are not illegal, have not been
    illegal, at least, yes, there is ongoing
  • 61:06 - 61:11
    investigations, but these ongoing
    investigations are around the question of
  • 61:11 - 61:17
    how sources were convinced to be a source.
    So there's this allegation that, for
  • 61:17 - 61:23
    example, Chelsea Manning was instructed to
    do something in order to submit the stuff,
  • 61:23 - 61:28
    in order to publish it later. The
    publishing itself might have not been
  • 61:28 - 61:34
    illegal. Chelsea Manning herself is, as
    you might know, also in prison again for
  • 61:34 - 61:41
    not testifying against Julian about
    exactly this question. So it's not only
  • 61:41 - 61:48
    the publishing stuff that's being
    threatened here. Yes, also, but also the
  • 61:48 - 61:54
    treatment of sources and the whole wording
    surrounding the process of acquiring a
  • 61:54 - 62:01
    source. It's hard for me to like right now
    come up with like the concept of how this
  • 62:01 - 62:07
    can continue. But obviously, we are here
    at a situation where transparency in
  • 62:07 - 62:15
    governmental affairs has successfully been
    demonstrated to be achievable over the
  • 62:15 - 62:20
    Internet with the right access to
    information and data and also being
  • 62:20 - 62:25
    challenged by those in power. And so we
    better challenge those in power and ensure
  • 62:25 - 62:32
    that democracy, based on our ability and
    our right to know what is happening in our
  • 62:32 - 62:41
    name is preserved. How are we going to do
    that with a country like the formerly
  • 62:41 - 62:47
    country known as the United States, now
    Trumpistan or whatever huff. I mean,
  • 62:47 - 62:55
    even for the United Kingdom huff. But ok,
    here we are in old Europe or in Germany
  • 62:55 - 63:00
    with all its weird history. There's other
    countries surrounding us that at least
  • 63:00 - 63:05
    have a constitution based on some human
    rights. The United Kingdom doesn't even
  • 63:05 - 63:11
    have a constitution based on that. So at
    least for Germany, France, maybe Italy,
  • 63:11 - 63:17
    Spain and so on, and these countries, I
    still see that we can do something. So
  • 63:17 - 63:21
    this is also a bit of a situation between
    European and American understanding of
  • 63:21 - 63:27
    governance at all. And we just can't let
    this happen. I mean, this is not about
  • 63:27 - 63:32
    Julian. This is about our ability to deal
    with governments or if you want to hear it
  • 63:32 - 63:36
    the other way around with the governments
    abilities to deal with us.
  • 63:36 - 63:38
    Herald: Thank you.
  • 63:38 - 63:48
    applause
  • 63:48 - 63:57
    postroll music
  • 63:59 - 64:10
    subtitles created by c3subtitles.de
    in the year 2020. Join, and help us!
Title:
cdn.media.ccc.de/.../36c3-11247-eng-Technical_aspects_of_the_surveillance_in_and_around_the_Ecuadorian_embassy_in_London.mp4
Video Language:
English
Duration:
01:04:14

English subtitles

Revisions Compare revisions