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James: You maybe already answered this,
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but has there been a season
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in which you've struggled
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with being burned out as a pastor?
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And if so, what helped you
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to get out of that season?
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Mack: Well, in the last 18 years
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of pastoring in the same church,
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I don't think I've had burnout.
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What I would call that:
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seasons of discouragement,
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seasons of weariness, tiredness.
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But we have to learn to pace ourselves.
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We have to learn to intentionally rest.
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Renew ourselves.
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Step aside and rest awhile
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as Jesus told His disciples.
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And I think what's helped me to avoid
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sinking into times like that
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is being intentional about times of rest,
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times of going to a lake house
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three days with my wife.
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And literally doing nothing.
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No agenda. No schedule.
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No social media.
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Reading my Bible.
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Taking a nap.
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Being with her.
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Sitting on the back porch
looking at the lake.
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No schedule.
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Just unwind.
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I have a pastor friend of mine
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who after 40 years of ministry one day,
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his body literally shut down.
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He was used to preaching and teaching
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six times a week.
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He ran five miles every day.
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He was athletic.
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And one day his body shut down
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and he had a breakdown.
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And what was determined ultimately
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was the ministry, the teaching,
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the lack of breaks -
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his body could not continue
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to go on the adrenaline physically.
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The adrenaline needed to preach
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and be before people.
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It was overload.
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His body finally said:
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I can't take anymore. I'm stopping.
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(incomplete thought)
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And he recovered, but he had to stop
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doing 40% of what he had been doing.
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John Piper said we have to pay
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our debts to our body.
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And so we have to know ourselves.
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We have to intentionally plan time off.
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Vacations are a spiritual thing.
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They're spiritual.
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To get away, there's all kinds of effects,
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spiritually, emotionally,
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mentally, physically,
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socially.
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We've got to have that change
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to disconnect and reboot.
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And so that's what I've learned.
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We renew our strength that way.
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And it's actually a spiritual thing
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because it enables us to have longevity
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of fruitful ministry more.
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James: Have there been any other pastors
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who you've known
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who have gotten burned out
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in the pastoral ministry
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and they never got back into it?
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And if so, what was going on there?
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Mack: I have several close friends
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over the years,
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that that very thing happened to them.
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In their cases,
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they were pastoring churches -
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these were very good men,
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sound men, good preachers,
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real pastor's hearts.
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They weren't hirelings.
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And their churches treated them wrong
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or put pressure on them wrong
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or were demanding too much of them.
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And they began to burn out.
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And/or they were forced
out of their church
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because they weren't producing enough.
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And the power players in the church
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were controlling things
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which is obviously very unbiblical.
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Your church government
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and what kind of leadership you have
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will control that issue.
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Because when you have
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a plurality in ministry
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and a team of elders
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and a team of deacons that serve
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at the pleasure of the elders,
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a couple of couples can't resist a team
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and try to attack them.
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But anyway, I saw these friends
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have to leave pastoring.
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They were wounded, discouraged,
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and then they're at this crossroads.
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Can I take it again?
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I'm too hurt. I can't do it now again.
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But they have children.
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They take a job.
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They settle in to raising a family,
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providing.
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And they get settled where they are.
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And then they get to be 40 years old,
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50 even,
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and they're settled in their career.
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And I'm sure the calling of God
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is still on them.
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But they can't find a way back.
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They don't feel like, for whatever reason,
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they can stop everything,
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start all over again.
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Will the same thing happen to us
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that happened before?
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I couldn't take it again.
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And maybe they don't feel like
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they could plant a church.
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So they never pastor again.
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And it's really sad to me
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because the burnout got them.
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James: And there's not enough good men
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out there as it is.
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Mack: I mean, I would say
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to any brother like that
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who's got a pastor's heart
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and was in ministry,
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and he's not anymore,
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and he's trying to be faithful,
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but the nagging is there,
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and he knows the gifts and callings of God
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are without repentance.
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If I was ever called to preach the Gospel,
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and I haven't disqualified myself
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through sin,
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am I not still called?
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Lord, I'm willing.
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Show me what You want.
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James: What have been your
greatest encouragements as a pastor?
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Mack: For me, I think,
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as pastors and preachers,
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we're first Christians.
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And we need fellowship.
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And it's easy for preachers
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to be in the preaching mode
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and not maintain real fellowship
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just as Christians.
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And so maintaining real fellowship,
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being with brothers,
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sitting under preaching that feeds me,
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doing the things that I need to do
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as a Christian
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to stay encouraged and grow,
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never mind being a preacher.
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Those are the things that have
encouraged me the most -
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to be with the brethren,
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and be stirred up.
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And I think even more specifically,
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to pray with brothers.
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There's something about praying
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with another brother in your church
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or a fellow pastor
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or a brother in the
Lord that likes to pray.
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Praying with them
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always is a real encouragement to me.
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So those things are basic things,
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but the things God uses
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to bring encouragement into our lives
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are the basic things:
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His Word, true fellowship,
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and keeping myself
under edifying preaching
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that feeds my heart.
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You know, at this point in my life,
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I'm not interested in intellectual,
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high theology preaching
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that just feeds my mind
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or just gives me information.
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I want something that will stir my heart,
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that will stir my love for Christ,
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that preaches to my conscience,
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my affections,
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and really brings me in touch with God.
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And automatically, encouragement comes.
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Along that line of encouragements,
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one of the biggest means
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of encouragement in my life,
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to stir me, to refresh me,
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to encourage me,
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to inspire me,
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really has probably just been
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the regular reading of Christian biography
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and the lives of the saints in the past.
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Because you see how God worked
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in their lives when they were sinful,
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when they were needy;
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how He shaped their lives,
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and equipped them;
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how He kept them and provided for them;
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how He used them.
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And reading the lives
of saints from the past
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is just a huge inspiration.
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Martyn Lloyd-Jones says
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reading Christian biography
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was the biggest tonic for his soul.
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He'd be refreshed so much.
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And that's been the case with me too.
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Only when you do it and experience it
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does the reality and the fragrance
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of another Christian's walk
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in what they experience
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becomes communicated to you.
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It becomes incarnational.
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And you see, man, his life
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is such an inspiration to me.
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And you go away longing to be that way.
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And you go away with new lessons
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of: I could do that that he did.
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I hadn't thought about that, you know.
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And you're adding to your faith
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and you're growing.
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So it really is true.