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cdn.media.ccc.de/.../36c3-10875-eng-Hack_Curio.mp4

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    36C3 Preroll music
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    Herald: Two speakers, that are on stage
    today are both anthropologists and they
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    are both experts on hacking culture. Today
    also, they launched a website HackCur.io.
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    And which is also the name of the talk
    'hack_curio, decoding the Cultures of
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    Hacking'. One video at a time. I welcome
    Gabriella, a.k.a. Biella Coleman and
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    Paula Bialski.
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    Applause
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    Paula Belsky : Hello. Hello. Yes, good
    evening. CCC is so lovely to be here. We
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    are super excited to stand before you here
    today and present a project we've been
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    working on for the past year or so.
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    Biella: Would not have been
    finished if it were not for
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    this talk. Paula: Exactly. Biella: So thank you.
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    Paula: Exactly.
    Thanks for forcing us to stand before you
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    and get away from our desks. Here's a
    drink, some wine, have some 11:30 PM
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    discussion with you and there's no
    better place to launch the project that
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    we're gonna show you then at the CCC. So
    we're super excited to be here. Let's
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    start with the very basics. What is
    hack_curio? What is it that you guys are
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    gonna see in the next hour or so?
    Hack_curio is a web shot site featuring
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    short video clips all related to computer
    hackers. Now a bit a bit of background. My
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    name is Paula Bialski and I am a
    sociologist. I'm an ethnographer of hacker
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    cultures. I study corporate hacker
    developers. And for those of you who don't
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    know Biella Coleman.
    Biella: I'm an anthropologist.
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    I also study computer hackers. And we,
    along with Chris Kelty, have helped to put
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    this Website together.
    Paula: Exactly. And in
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    the past year, we've decided to come
    together and bring all sorts of clips from
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    public talks, from documentaries, from
    Hollywood films, mems, advertising, all
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    sorts of sources. We've brought together
    these videos that also come together
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    short descriptions by authors, by
    scholars, by journalists, by people who
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    know something about hacker cultures. And
    we brought that together all in one place.
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    So call it a museum, call it a compendium,
    call it a web site. And it's a place for
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    you to really pay homage to you guys,
    because hackers come in all shapes and
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    sizes. What it means to hack, might mean
    something to you, but might mean something
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    very different to you. And we decided as
    anthropologists, we think it's very
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    important to represent a certain culture
    in a certain way. We're not just hackers
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    in hoodies. It's a really diverse culture.
    So we're going to talk about that today.
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    Biella: All right. So like, how did this project
    come into being? Like, why are we here?
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    Why did we spend the last year doing this?
    Well, you know, first of all, it wasn't
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    created. I didn't create it because I had
    this idea in mind. It was created because
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    I started to collect videos for a reason.
    I'm a professor and I twice a week stand
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    in front of students who are on the
    Internet, on Facebook, maybe buying shoes.
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    And it's really hard to get their
    attention. And you know, what I found
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    using videos in class was an amazing way
    to get them off Facebook and paying
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    attention to what to me. Right. So over
    the years, I just collected a lot of
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    videos. Right. Video after video after
    video after video. And in certain
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    point. I was like, you know, I have this
    private collection, semi private
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    collection they use in class. Why don't I
    transform it into a public resource and
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    more so as someone who studied hackers for
    many years, why don't I kind of make it
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    into a collaborative project? Why don't I
    tap into the kind of expertise that exists
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    among hackers and journalists and
    researchers and academics and draw them
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    in? And so I decided to do that right.
    Until about a year and a half ago, I
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    brought together a couple of other people
    like Paula, Chris Kelty, who's another
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    curator. And I said, like, let's get this
    going. So when we were kind of fashioning
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    the project, we were also thinking like,
    what are we trying to do with this project?
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    Right. You're not my students. I don't see
    you twice a week. And so we came up with
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    some goals and we don't know if we're
    gonna achieve these goals. The site
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    literally is going live like right now.
    But this is what we're trying to do with a
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    project. We're trying to chip away at
    simplistic conceptions and stereotypes of
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    hackers. We know these exist. Can we chip
    away at them? Right. We want to offer new
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    perspectives on what hackers have actually
    done and what they do. A really important
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    thing which Paula has already kind of
    mentioned is showcase the diversity of
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    hacking. Right. People who do block chain
    and free software and security. And
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    there's there's similarities, but there's
    also differences like let's try to show
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    this. And while this is not an archive,
    this is not the Internet Archive. We are
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    trying to kind of preserve bits and bytes
    of hacker history. So these are the four
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    goals. And we do feel that video. Right,
    is a nice medium, a mechanism to achieve
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    these four goals. It's persuasive, it's
    compelling, it's memorable. It's fun. Like
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    we like to waste time at work on video.
    Right. So we're like, hey, let's add a
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    little persuasive punch to Tex. And this
    is why we decided to do it this way.
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    Paula: Exactly. So what happens when you click on
    the site today and how is it organized? We
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    want to show you a little bit of of the
    actual architecture of the site itself. So
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    we got. When you click on the Web site,
    you see as... you see certain categories,
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    we've grouped the videos in two different
    categories because as you say, there's a
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    huge diversity. So you can see here,
    Biella is lovely here, pointing out the
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    beautiful categories. We've got anti
    security hackers, block chain hackers.
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    We've got free and open the software,
    we've got phreaking, we've got hacker
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    depictions. You can look at all sorts of
    sort of different categories. You go onto
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    a category, website site and then you have
    a blurb about what this subculture of
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    hacking is all about or what this what the
    aim is, exactly what the theme is. And
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    then you have all sorts of little videos
    that last maybe 30 seconds, maybe a few
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    minutes. And under these videos, you would
    look at the video and then you would have
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    a little bit of a blurb. It's not an
    essay. It's not a book. It's not some
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    boring academic text. It's supposed to be
    funny. It's supposed to be for your
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    grandmother's to read. It's supposed to be
    actually accessible and understandable.
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    Right. So you have the video and the
    actual text itself. Right. So this is how
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    it looks like. And this is maybe some
    sample of our content itself. What do we
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    have? We've got 42 entries at the moment
    which we've collected from, as I said,
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    various different academics with different
    authors. And by the end of 2020, we would
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    love to have around 100, 100 entries and
    we'd try to publish around 50 or 20
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    entries. Biella: after that. Because it's really
    brutally hard to edit academics. Paula: Exactly.
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    Exactly. And so we've got what you'll
    find. These are just some examples. We'll
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    get into some really of the videos in just
    a moment. But for example, you would look
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    at hackers and engineers humming at the
    Internet Engineering Task Force, or you
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    look at an entry that's about the
    programing legend, of course, Grace Hopper
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    being interviewed by a clue, David
    Letterman. Maybe you guys have seen this
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    video, a block chain ad that people see it
    or you'd say you'd ask, is this real? It's
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    kind of wacky ad or is it parody? And when
    you watch you, you have to know that this
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    is actually real. The actor Robert Redford
    showing off his mad social engineering
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    skills with the help of cakes and balloons
    or how to make sense of why algerien hacker
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    Hamza Bender Lodge dressed by U.S.
    government smiles and how many people from
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    Algeria understand his grin. So this kind
    of various diversity of really what
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    hacking is really all about. Biella: But but
    we're here to get the video party started.
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    Paula: Exact right.
    From audience: Exactly!
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    Finaly. Fine. Let's get started. Yeah.
    Biella: with a little Background. Paula: Exactly. Exactly.
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    Ok. So which I'm going to start
    with the day. You start. You start. Biella: All
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    right. So we thought it would be a good
    idea to start with phone phreaking,
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    because phone phreaking really developed
    at the same time. If not kind of before
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    computer hacking. And we're going to show
    Joy Bubbles. Joe Ingrassia, who is, you
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    know, often considered to be the
    grandfather of phone phreaking. So let's
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    go to a video.
    Text from Video Speaker1: In the
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    days when calls went through, the
    operators phreaking wasn't possible. But as
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    humans switchboards were replaced by
    mechanical systems, different noises were
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    used to trigger the switches.
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    Whistling
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    If you'd had
    perfect pitch like blind phone free Joe
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    Ingrassia, you could whistle calls through
    the network. Joe: Let's see if I make it this time. This is really hard
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    to do, it sounded like all the tones were present,
    so the phone should be ringing a bell. Now. Okay.
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    I get the phone, it just take a little while...
    Speaker1: He even showed
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    off his skills at the local media. Speaker2: From his one
    phone to a town in Illinois and back
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    to his other phone, a thousand miles phone
    call by whistling. Joe Ingrassia....
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    Biella: right? Very cool, right? So Joe Ingrassia
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    is featured. And Joan Donovan, who is like
    a mad researcher at Harvard University,
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    wrote a really awesome entry about that.
    No, of course, she emphasizes things like,
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    you know, while hacking is often tied to
    computers, it's often tied to any system
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    that you could understand, improve, fix,
    undermine. And the phreakers really showed
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    that. Right. And of course, the history of
    phone phreaking is about blind kids. Not
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    everyone who is a freak was blind, but
    many of them were. They met each other in
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    camp and kind of exchanged information.
    And that was one of the ways in which
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    phone phreaking grew. Phone phreaking
    really grew as well. When a big article in
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    1971 was published by Roone Rosin Bomb in
    Esquire magazine, who has read that
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    article? Is anyone? It's incredible. We
    mentioned it, I think, in a piece. Check
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    it out. Phreaking freaking exploded after
    that article. The spelling phreaking
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    changed from Capital F Freak to Ph.
    Because of that article, phreaking also
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    grew when blue boxes were created. Right.
    This is also something that Joan writes
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    about in her entry. One of the cool things
    that Joan writes about and then I'm going
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    to turn it over to Paula again is that
    some phreaks train birds, OK, to freaking
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    phreak. Let's just leave it at that,
    because that's pretty cool. All right.
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    Paula: OK. Are you guys ready now to
    cringe? There we need a little bit of a
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    cringing moment as well. So without
    further ado, this is Steve Ballmer that
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    would like to do some dancing. Biella:
    From Microsoft. You just don't know.
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    Music
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    Paula: OK. Yeah, that's right. Biella:
    I just want to say one little
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    thing. Paula: Yeah, of course there's a remix of
    this with goats screaming like, look it
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    up. It's awesome. Paula: Exactly. But why do we show
    Steve Ballmer the sort of like Godfather?
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    Exactly. Kind of an anti hacker of
    sorts. I myself am a staff who've worked
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    among a corporate culture of software
    developers. Aren't hackers per se? But if
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    you think of a figure like Steve Ballmer,
    a lot of you guys who perhaps identify
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    yourself as hackers, you have day jobs,
    you go to work and you have to make some
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    money in order to live and do work on your
    own projects. And you often have to face
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    sort of mini Steve Ballmers at work. And
    this is a quote that I have my own entry
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    that I did right next to this video. Steve
    Ballmer, even Ballmers unbridled display
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    of exuberance is exceptional. Many
    software developers will have to deal with
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    Mini Steve Ballmers every day. Biella:
    We are sorry that you do. But If you do - you do.
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    Paula: Exactly. And so this but this exuberance is
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    all about these sort of slogans of win
    big, save the world while building
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    technology, be awesome, be true, whatever
    it is your corporate slogan is. And
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    there is, I think, the way in which the
    software developer and sort of the hackers
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    that work in their day jobs challenge this
    sort of really intense exuberance of
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    wearing your corporate T-shirt and smiling
    every day in a way in which you hack your
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    daily projects, you work on your own
    private projects on the side. You actually
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    do have many acts of resistance in a way
    to this kind of loud, massive exuberance.
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    And I talk about these sort of side line
    mini hacks that happen on an everyday
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    corporate culture.
    Biella: Check out your entry. It's really
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    funny. All right. So now we're going to
    hacktivists. So who here has heard of
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    Phineas Fisher? All right. Awesome. Just
    in case, for those who are watching the
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    video now or later, I'm going to give a
    little bit of background. But I love this
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    video about Phineas Fisher because he's
    explained what he or the group has done,
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    but he also does kind of a very clever
    media hack. So for those that don't know
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    who Phineas Fisher, is he or the group is a
    hacktivists that claims to be inspired by
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    Anonymous, says Jeremy Hammond. He's
    hacked into various corporations from
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    FinFisher to hacking team. And what he did
    was take documents, take e-mail and then
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    publish them. And these were important in
    ways that I'll talk about in a moment.
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    He's donated, I think, stolen bitcoins to
    rush over government. In this fall.
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    He published a manifesto kind of calling
    for public interest hacking and claims he
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    would give one hundred thousand dollars to
    anyone who does this. So now I'm going to
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    show the first and I believe only
    interview that he has done. And he did
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    this with Vise News a couple of years ago.
    Video starts
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    Let's do this. These are the exact words
    from our live text exchange, voiced by one
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    of my colleagues.
    Colleage: So why did you hack hacking
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    team?
    Cermet: Well, I just for the citizen lab
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    reports on FinFisher and hacking team and
    thought, that's fucked up. And I hacked
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    them.
    Colleage: What was the goal on hacking the
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    hacking team data? Were you tried to stop them?
    Cermet: For the locals. I don't really
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    expect leaking data to stop a company, but
    hopefully can at least set them back a bit
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    and give some breathing room to the people
    being targeted with their software.
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    Video ends
    Biella: OK, so this does not yet exist on
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    Hack_Curio. I have to write the
    entry, but because I was so busy getting
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    the other site in preparation, I haven't
    done it, but it will happen in the next
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    few weeks. But what I love about this
    video is, first of all, he's like hacking
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    media representations. Right? I mean, even
    when awesome journalists like Motherboard
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    publish on hackers or other kind of
    entities, they still kind of use a masked
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    hacker even once they published about
    FinFisher and they put like a mask on him.
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    And it's like hackers have heat, like they
    don't need a mask. Right. And there is
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    this this sense where there's always a
    kind of demonic, masked figure. And he was
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    like, OK, I'll do this interview, but you
    have to represent me as like a lovable
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    Muppet like figure. Right? So he's there
    hacking the media. But what's also really
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    interesting in it. And you watch the full
    video, it's kind of amazing. Is that, you
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    know, he kind of claims, oh, I didn't have
    much of in fact, I don't think he could do
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    anything, but in fact, first of all, the
    information that was released really
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    reaffirms what people suspected. For
    example, and in the case of hacking team
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    who was selling problematic exploit
    spyware to dictatorial regimes. We really
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    got a confirmation that this was
    happening. And in fact, eventually hacking
  • 16:46 - 16:51
    team even lost her license. Right. This
    was like a direct effect from what
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    FinFischer did. So really, it's it's a
    kind of amazing video that showcases what
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    he was doing, his reasoning, and then was
    a performance, literally, a puppet that
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    hacked the media. OK, so now we're going
    to rewind a little bit and go back in
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    time. So a lot of hackers care about
    cryptography. Right? And ever since the
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    cipher punks. And since that period, there
    have been projects from TOR to Signal that
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    have enabled cryptography. That has been
    really important for human rights
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    activists and others. But one of the
    great, great kind of encryption projects
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    came from this fellow, Tim Jenkins, who
    here in the room has heard of Tim Jenkins.
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    OK. This is amazing. This is why we're
    doing kind of hack_curio. So Tim Jenkins is
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    from South Africa. And beginning in 1988,
    secret messages were sent and received
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    regularly across South Africa borders
    using an encrypted telematics system
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    assembling assemble during the final years
    of the South African liberation struggle
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    and Tim Jenkins, along with Ronnie
    Press, who has since passed away, created
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    the system. And Tim Jenkins was kind of
    like a phone phreak. And that was one of
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    the reasons, like he was good at working
    with phones. And what was amazing about
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    this system, which was part of Operation
    Vula, was that allowed people in South
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    Africa to communicate with leaders in
    exile - in London. Right? And Tim Jenkin
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    created this system. I'm going to show a
    video about it in a moment. And Sophie
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    Dupin has written a terrific entry. The
    reason why we have him with the key there
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    was that like, you know, the South African
    apartheid government did not really like
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    Tim Jenkins, so they threw him in jail.
    Well, a lot of hackers lock pick. He
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    actually created 10 wooden keys secretly
    in the wooden shop and broke out of jail.
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    I mean, talk about like taking lock
    picking to like another sort of level. All
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    right. So let's listen and see the video
    about this incredible program.
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    Video starts
    Tim Jenkin: After we sent in the first
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    computer. We expect things to start
    immediately, but it actually took a couple
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    of weeks. And then suddenly one day I was
    sitting at my desk and the telephone
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    answering machine suddenly started
    roaring and I thought, this must be the
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    wrong number or something. But then, sure
    enough, I heard the distinctive tone of
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    the messages and I could hear this thing
    coming through the tape. Modem 14.5k
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    sound Word, and word, and word. And
    then it stopped and I loaded the message
  • 19:43 - 19:48
    onto my computer. In fact, it was a report
    from Matt. And sure enough, there was our
  • 19:48 - 19:53
    first message. Absolutely perfect. sound of a
  • 19:53 - 19:58
    printer working
    Video ends
  • 19:58 - 20:05
    Biella: Ah, fax machine. OK. So this is from the
    entry by Sophie Dupin, who is writing a
  • 20:05 - 20:09
    dissertation on this topic. The
    international hacker community has since
  • 20:09 - 20:13
    taken notice of Tim Jenkins and the Vula
    encrypted communication system that
  • 20:13 - 20:18
    embodies so many qualities often
    associated with exceptional, with an
  • 20:18 - 20:23
    exceptional hack. Elegant, clever, usable
    and pragmatic. Right? Jenkins has been
  • 20:23 - 20:29
    invited to speak at the Berlin Logan
    Symposium in 2016 and to lock picking
  • 20:29 - 20:35
    communities in the Netherlands and the
    United States. In 2018 the RSA Security
  • 20:35 - 20:41
    Conference gave Jenkin the first award for
    excellence in humanitarian service. So
  • 20:41 - 20:46
    just like one last thing, this is a good
    reminder that histories of computer
  • 20:46 - 20:52
    hacking are often skewed. They often
    actually start with the United States.
  • 20:52 - 20:57
    When, for example, in Europe with the CCC,
    that story's been told in bits and pieces,
  • 20:57 - 21:04
    but deserves a much longer or much larger
    showcase. And actually this example also
  • 21:04 - 21:10
    shows that, for example, the history of
    encryption when it comes to communication
  • 21:10 - 21:15
    didn't even necessarily start in the
    United States. Right? And so it's really,
  • 21:15 - 21:19
    really important to kind of showcase these
    histories that haven't been told
  • 21:19 - 21:21
    elsewhere.
    Paula: So maybe by now you're kind of
  • 21:21 - 21:27
    getting at the fact that we see hacking as
    a diverse practice. Hackers as a diverse
  • 21:27 - 21:32
    group of people who do different things.
    And at the moment we're going I want to
  • 21:32 - 21:38
    come back to the ways in which hackers
    challenge power through challenging really
  • 21:38 - 21:43
    the very stereotype of what gender means
    and challenging, really gender politics.
  • 21:43 - 21:49
    And it will start to turn to this topic by
    looking at an entry that a woman named
  • 21:49 - 21:54
    Christina Dunbar Hester has done on a
    woman named Naomi Cedar. And some of you
  • 21:54 - 22:00
    probably know Naomi Cedar. This is part of
    her entry. And she wrote, Naomi Cedar is a
  • 22:00 - 22:04
    programmer and core participant in the
    Python programing language community. As a
  • 22:04 - 22:09
    trans identified person, Cedar grappled
    with whether she would have to give up
  • 22:09 - 22:13
    everything in order to transition and
    whether the community would accept her for
  • 22:13 - 22:19
    doing so. So let's watch a clip of the
    video and let's see how Naomi Cedar challenge that.
  • 22:19 - 22:26
    Biella: I think she gave this talk at
    PyCon, the Python Open Source Developer
  • 22:26 - 22:30
    conference, and it's really incredible
    talk. I really encourage you to watch the
  • 22:30 - 22:33
    whole talk. But this is a question. This
    is the moment where she's like, do I have
  • 22:33 - 22:37
    to leave the community or can I transition
    in the community?
  • 22:37 - 22:40
    Paula: Exactly. So let's watch a tiny
    clip.
  • 22:40 - 22:43
    clip starts
    I decided that to do that would probably
  • 22:43 - 22:48
    mean giving up everything. Remember, back
    at 13, I had absorbed this into my brain
  • 22:48 - 22:52
    that the only way you were going to get
    out of this was to basically leave
  • 22:52 - 22:57
    everything. And this was a very painful
    thing to think about. But like a lot of
  • 22:57 - 23:00
    trans people, I had come to the point
    where even if I lost everything, that was
  • 23:00 - 23:09
    fine. So I started to think about other
    alternatives here. I had toyed with the
  • 23:09 - 23:13
    idea of doing the education summit as a
    farewell thing to the community. I would
  • 23:13 - 23:17
    do it and then disappear, go into the
    witness protection program. The
  • 23:17 - 23:21
    only problem was I actually started
    accelerating the pace of my transition
  • 23:21 - 23:26
    because, well, it was just such freaky
    relief to start moving in that direction
  • 23:26 - 23:31
    that that wouldn't work. So I actually
    thought about what was for me hacking back
  • 23:31 - 23:37
    to Laverne Cox, a very revolutionary idea.
    What if I just did it and was open about
  • 23:37 - 23:43
    it? First thing I looked at codes of
    conduct. I looked for specifics. What
  • 23:43 - 23:49
    happens to me if there is a problem? If I
    am harassed? This was important to me.
  • 23:49 - 23:54
    Other thing I did was I started telling a
    few people Jesse Nola, Avi Alaska. Some
  • 23:54 - 23:58
    people I would work with PyCon on and they
    were all pretty cool with the idea. And
  • 23:58 - 24:02
    the more I talked about it, the more I
    decided that I would go ahead and take
  • 24:02 - 24:06
    that chance. So I did. I started by
    teaching at some Python workshops for
  • 24:06 - 24:12
    women. I spoke at some conferences. We
    went to PyCon . It was good. The education
  • 24:12 - 24:16
    summit was fine. Okay. Some of the people
    I worked with in organizing it were a
  • 24:16 - 24:20
    little bit confused when the names on the
    emails changed. I apologize, but in
  • 24:20 - 24:26
    general it went pretty well. In fact, the
    more open I was, the easier it was on. It
  • 24:26 - 24:29
    was for me because I didn't have to worry
    about being outed. And it was easier for
  • 24:29 - 24:33
    other people because they certainly knew
    what to expect. The other interesting
  • 24:33 - 24:37
    sidelight is that when I told people they
    sometimes felt an obligation to share some
  • 24:37 - 24:42
    deep, dark secret about themselves, like I
    kind of thrump them and they had to answer
  • 24:42 - 24:50
    back. So my takeaway here is that, we talk
    a lot about diversity and that's real. So
  • 24:50 - 24:57
    we should be ending on this point, except
    that I'm a contrarian in my old age.
  • 24:57 - 25:03
    So it is not quite all rainbows and
    unicorns or as you might put it, this is
  • 25:03 - 25:09
    kind of common in social justice circles
    right now. We don't get a cookie.
  • 25:09 - 25:12
    Video ends
    Paula: All right. And yeah, yeah,
  • 25:12 - 25:14
    Paula and Biella are applauding
    Biella: He's a very powerful player.
  • 25:14 - 25:19
    Paula: Exactly. And I guess we could also
    say that the next if I want to show that
  • 25:19 - 25:24
    after the entry by Christina Dunbar
    Hester, Naomi Cedar actually gave a response
  • 25:24 - 25:27
    to this entry, which we've also published,
    which we also want to do. We want to have
  • 25:27 - 25:32
    a discussion between some of the responses
    to the actual very areas.
  • 25:32 - 25:35
    Biella: So we actually wanted to quote it
    in full.
  • 25:35 - 25:41
    Paula: Yeah, exactly. So perhaps. Let's
    read, let's read this this section from
  • 25:41 - 25:47
    the response of Naomi Cedar. PyCon itself
    has continued to evolve into an ever more
  • 25:47 - 25:51
    diverse place with an ever stronger
    representation of queer folks, people of
  • 25:51 - 25:56
    color, people who speak different
    languages, etc. Codes of conduct are
  • 25:56 - 26:01
    nearly universal these days, and more
    often than not, communities insist that
  • 26:01 - 26:05
    they be well crafted and meaningful and
    backed up by real enforcement. Even in
  • 26:05 - 26:10
    these retrograde times of official attacks
    on the rights of so many groups, we have
  • 26:10 - 26:15
    come a long way. But just as I said five
    years ago, it's still not all rainbows and
  • 26:15 - 26:20
    unicorns. Too many groups throughout the
    open source world globally are making only
  • 26:20 - 26:24
    token efforts to foster inclusion. And in
    my opinion, too many members of privileged
  • 26:24 - 26:29
    groups tend to focus on supervisual or
    cosmetic changes rather than addressing
  • 26:29 - 26:34
    the underlying fundamental issues.
    Marginalized groups face. It doesn't take
  • 26:34 - 26:39
    a bit away from how far we've come to also
    acknowledge how much we still have to do.
  • 26:39 - 26:44
    Naomi Cedar. So this really part we wanted
    to discuss this in the way in which
  • 26:44 - 26:48
    hacking is also a practice of challenging
    power, challenging stereotypes and
  • 26:48 - 26:52
    challenging really gender norms in many
    ways. All right, let's move on.
  • 26:52 - 26:57
    Biella: All right. So the final frontier.
    We have three more videos to show. Before
  • 26:57 - 27:04
    we get to the Q and A. In all videos
    relate to geopolitics and hacking. You
  • 27:04 - 27:08
    know, hacking has always been political in
    some fashion, if for no other reason than
  • 27:08 - 27:13
    sometimes laws are challenged. You're
    you're doing what you're doing, something
  • 27:13 - 27:17
    that someone doesn't want you to do.
    Right. But there's only been certain
  • 27:17 - 27:22
    moments, where nation states have been
    interested in hacking or there have been
  • 27:22 - 27:27
    sort of ways in which nation states have
    used hacking. For example, recently in
  • 27:27 - 27:33
    order to kind of engage in international
    politics. So we're going to kind of focus
  • 27:33 - 27:40
    on these last, the last three videos will
    focus on these issues. We're at the CCC.
  • 27:40 - 27:45
    So of course, I wanted to show a video
    related to CCC. Unfortunately, I don't have
  • 27:45 - 27:53
    one related to the German CCC. Please do
    send good videos related to the CCC to me.
  • 27:53 - 28:00
    But I am going to show one related to the
    FCCC established in Lion by Jean-Bernard
  • 28:00 - 28:06
    Condat. So do people know what the F
    stands for? All right. What
  • 28:06 - 28:08
    does it stand for?
    One Auditor: French? Biella: French.
  • 28:08 - 28:16
    OK. Once you see the video. Oh no.
    Hold on. You will also see that it stands
  • 28:16 - 28:24
    for fake and fuck as well, because
    basically the French chapter of the CCC
  • 28:24 - 28:30
    was established in part to try to entrap
    hackers in order to kind of work for the
  • 28:30 - 28:36
    French government. It's a fascinating
    story that's been told in bits and pieces
  • 28:36 - 28:39
    and I'm going to say a little bit more
    about it. But now I'm going to show a clip
  • 28:39 - 28:44
    from a French documentary that kind of,
    you know, charts a little bit of that
  • 28:44 - 28:47
    history. It's in French with subtitles.
  • 28:47 - 31:43
    Video is in progress
  • 31:43 - 31:51
    Biella: OK. So pretty incredible, right?
    And this story has been told in bits and
  • 31:51 - 31:54
    pieces by French journalists. I'm
    working with another French journalist to
  • 31:54 - 32:01
    try to kind of uncover the fuller history,
    as well tell the story of kind of American
  • 32:01 - 32:05
    and European hackers who did not get
    recruited by intelligence, but who
  • 32:05 - 32:09
    nevertheless came from the underground,
    because they were breaking into systems,
  • 32:09 - 32:14
    not maliciously, but they learned a lot
    and they had really valuable knowledge
  • 32:14 - 32:22
    that no one else had. I mean, it's kind of
    really incredible, right? And, you know,
  • 32:22 - 32:26
    this history, whether it's just that the
    transformation of the underground into
  • 32:26 - 32:31
    security hackers or in the case of France,
    where some portion of people were tapped
  • 32:31 - 32:38
    to work for intelligence informally,
    formerly with pressure. Right. Has yet to
  • 32:38 - 32:43
    be written. And there's many remarkable
    elements about this. But basically, I do
  • 32:43 - 32:48
    think it's remarkable that it's a bunch of
    kind of amateurs who just were obsessed
  • 32:48 - 32:53
    with with networks who were the ones
    holding the special knowledge that were
  • 32:53 - 32:58
    needed, that was needed by corporations
    and intelligence in order to start
  • 32:58 - 33:03
    securing systems. Right. The other kind of
    really interesting thing is that some of
  • 33:03 - 33:10
    the best underground non malicious hacker
    crews were European. TESO, which had a lot
  • 33:10 - 33:18
    of Austrian and German members. ADM, which
    is from France, was considered to be the
  • 33:18 - 33:23
    best at exploit writing. Rights. So the
    entry, which I'm going to write with a
  • 33:23 - 33:27
    French journalist is going to reflect on
    this. And this is actually a big project
  • 33:27 - 33:32
    that I'm working on as well. So I'll have
    more to say about it later. All right. So
  • 33:32 - 33:36
    going from the past to the present.
    Paula: Exactly. And I guess we couldn't
  • 33:36 - 33:41
    talk to you politics and hacking without
    talking about Trump, talking about Putin.
  • 33:41 - 33:46
    A slew of politicians that we know in
    recent years has used the hacker for their
  • 33:46 - 33:51
    own political discourse, for their somehow
    political gain. And with this next video
  • 33:51 - 33:58
    will show us just that. This is our hacker
    depictions section. It was posted by a
  • 33:58 - 34:02
    scholar named Marietta Brezovich. So
    without further ado, let's listen to the
  • 34:02 - 34:05
    way in which Putin sees the hacker.
  • 34:05 - 35:06
    Video is in Progress
  • 35:06 - 35:15
    Paula: So I don't know if Putin was reading
    a Russian Hacker for the night. Biella: best image
  • 35:15 - 35:20
    of the night. Possibly. I don't know.
    Paula: We weren't sure if Putin is reading
  • 35:20 - 35:24
    Paul Graham's Hackers & Painters on the
    toilet or some of his other Hacker
  • 35:24 - 35:26
    cultures literature. But it seems like
    he's getting something right. Right. We
  • 35:26 - 35:30
    kind of think, hey, you kind of got it.
    It's not hackers actually.
  • 35:30 - 35:33
    Biella: well, except for one part.
    Paula: Exactly. That's what we want to
  • 35:33 - 35:37
    say. In some ways, yes. It's true. The
    hackers are artistic and creative, etc.
  • 35:37 - 35:39
    Biella: They just don't wake up early
    in the morning.
  • 35:39 - 35:42
    Paula: Exactly. Maybe they don't wake up
    early in the morning. But what's
  • 35:42 - 35:46
    important, I think in here and this is
    also what Brezovich points out in her
  • 35:46 - 35:52
    entry, is that he uses this, of course,
    for his political gain to show that he is
  • 35:52 - 35:56
    not influencing any hackers or any
    technologists, who maybe identify as
  • 35:56 - 36:02
    hackers or not. He's not influencing them.
    And because they are so free and artistic
  • 36:02 - 36:06
    and sort of living in their sort of creative
    world that they're beyond his control.
  • 36:06 - 36:10
    Right? So partially it's true. But
    partially he's gonna employing this to
  • 36:10 - 36:15
    make a political statement about his non
    involvement with any sort of role.
  • 36:15 - 36:18
    Biella: And what's interesting is all
    evidence points to the fact that that
  • 36:18 - 36:23
    technologists who did the hacking just
    work at intelligence organizations.
  • 36:23 - 36:25
    Paula: Exactly.
    Biella: All right. So we just had one more
  • 36:25 - 36:31
    video and we'll end on a positive note.
    Right? A lot of stuff around hackers is
  • 36:31 - 36:34
    sometimes depressing, especially when it
    comes to the law. They get arrested, they
  • 36:34 - 36:37
    get thrown in jail. They commit suicide.
    Paula: True.
  • 36:37 - 36:41
    Biella: And so we want to showcase a video
    that covers British and Finnish hacker
  • 36:41 - 36:45
    Lauri Love, who's presented here at the
    CCC. Some of you may know that he face
  • 36:45 - 36:50
    extradition to the United States due to
    his alleged involvement with Anonymous
  • 36:50 - 36:58
    operation called #OpLastResort, which was
    kind of in support of Aaron Swartz, who
  • 36:58 - 37:02
    had committed suicide when he was facing
    many criminal charges. And we'll watch a
  • 37:02 - 37:05
    clip where parliamentarians and others
    debate his case.
  • 37:05 - 37:08
    Video proceedes
  • 37:08 - 37:11
    A young man with Asperger's syndrome
  • 37:11 - 37:17
    awaits extradition to the United States,
    facing charges of computer hacking and is
  • 37:17 - 37:21
    then likely to kill himself. It sounds
    familiar. He's not, of course, Gary
  • 37:21 - 37:26
    McKinnon, who is saved by the prime
    minister. But Lauri Love, who faces, in
  • 37:26 - 37:30
    a fact, a death sentence. So when the
    prime minister introduced the form above
  • 37:30 - 37:34
    to, in her words, provide greater
    safeguards for individuals, surely she
  • 37:34 - 37:41
    expensed it to protect the vulnerable,
    like Gary McKinnon, like Lauri Love. The
  • 37:41 - 37:45
    honorable gentleman. My honorable friend
    obviously campaigned long and hard for
  • 37:45 - 37:49
    Gary McKinnon. And obviously I took that
    decision because at that time it was a
  • 37:49 - 37:53
    decision for the home secretary to decide
    whether there was a human rights case for
  • 37:53 - 37:57
    an individual not to be extradited. We
    subsequently changed the legal position on
  • 37:57 - 38:01
    that. So this is now a matter for the
    courts. There are certain parameters that
  • 38:01 - 38:04
    the courts look at in terms of the
    extradition decision, and that is then
  • 38:04 - 38:08
    passed to the home secretary. But it is
    for the courts to determine the human
  • 38:08 - 38:13
    rights aspects of any case that comes
    forward. It was right, I think, to
  • 38:13 - 38:20
    introduce the form box, to make sure that
    there was that challenge for cases here in
  • 38:20 - 38:23
    the United Kingdom, as to whether they
    should be held here in the United Kingdom.
  • 38:23 - 38:26
    But the legal process is very clear and
    the home secretary is part of that legal
  • 38:26 - 38:32
    process.
    Biella: OK, so the author of the entry,
  • 38:32 - 38:39
    Naomi Colvin, is right there in front.
    And she has a great sentence which
  • 38:39 - 38:43
    says in Lauri Love, the U.S. had
    definitively chosen the wrong target
  • 38:43 - 38:48
    principle, passionate and articulate,
    certainly more articulate than Theresa May
  • 38:48 - 38:53
    herself in the clip which accompanies this
    article, Love versus USA would be one for
  • 38:53 - 38:58
    the underdog. And it was Love one. He's
    not being extradited. And in part, it was
  • 38:58 - 39:05
    also because Naomi Colvin was part of the
    team that stopped it. So let's thank Naomi
  • 39:05 - 39:16
    as well as. Applause And it's just
    really important to document some of the
  • 39:16 - 39:21
    wins every once in a while. So do check.
    Check that out. So we are now going to
  • 39:21 - 39:25
    wrap up said that there's going to be 10
    minutes for Q and A, but a few final
  • 39:25 - 39:31
    reflections about this project.
    Paula: So I think these videos show actual
  • 39:31 - 39:36
    hackers and hackings and at a more level
    meta level demonstrated how hackers have
  • 39:36 - 39:41
    become central to our popular imagination.
    How hackers and hacking are one medium to
  • 39:41 - 39:45
    think through digital cultures, to think
    through politics. I mean, we care about
  • 39:45 - 39:49
    culture. We care about representing
    digging deep, looking at various angles of
  • 39:49 - 39:53
    a certain culture. And I think that's the
    purpose. Where I see this is the purpose
  • 39:53 - 39:58
    of Biella and mine, and Chris', and our friends
    projects is that we really want to take
  • 39:58 - 40:02
    the work that we've been doing and really
    pay tribute to this really huge, diverse
  • 40:02 - 40:07
    community that that you are.
    Biella: On a more practical level being a
  • 40:07 - 40:13
    little less meta. We do hope that people
    assign hack_curio entries in their
  • 40:13 - 40:17
    courses. You could use them in high
    school. You can use them in college
  • 40:17 - 40:21
    classes. You know, heck, you know, maybe
    you could even use them in middle school,
  • 40:21 - 40:26
    elementary. I don't know if that will
    work. But get it out there. And also for
  • 40:26 - 40:30
    some of you, I think it will be fun to
    look at different tidbits of hacker
  • 40:30 - 40:35
    history. And when you're at home for the
    holidays before you come to the CCC and
  • 40:35 - 40:41
    you're like, man, my parents don't really
    understand what I do. So you could fire up
  • 40:41 - 40:45
    a video that kind of represents what you
    do and fire up another video that
  • 40:45 - 40:50
    represents what you don't do.
    Paula: And have a discussion. Haven't
  • 40:50 - 40:52
    especially.
    Biella: And so this is our last slide.
  • 40:52 - 40:59
    What next? The site is Life. Share It. Our
    Twitter address is up there. We consider
  • 40:59 - 41:04
    this a soft launch. We have 42 entries,
    but we'll get some feedback and tweet
  • 41:04 - 41:09
    things, send video suggestions, spread the
    word. And to end before Q and A. We just
  • 41:09 - 41:13
    really want to thank the CCC. We want to
    thank Lisa for having us here. This is
  • 41:13 - 41:19
    really an amazing place to launch. And we
    also want to thank everyone who made this
  • 41:19 - 41:24
    possible from funding to the authors to
    the entire hack_curio team. So thank you
  • 41:24 - 41:39
    so much. And we're here for a little Q &
    A. Applause
  • 41:39 - 41:43
    Herald: Thanks a lot for this beautiful
    talk. We are now open for the
  • 41:43 - 41:47
    question. Mics. If there's any questions
    from the audience, please just stand up to
  • 41:47 - 41:59
    one of the mics. Paula: Don't be shy. Herald: Nobody is
    more interested in hacking culture? Are
  • 41:59 - 42:01
    you overwhelmed?
    Paula: Someone.
  • 42:01 - 42:04
    Herald: Yeah. There's someone on mic 1.
    Please.
  • 42:04 - 42:08
    Mic1: Thank you for this talk and for
    the energy that was in your talk. It was just
  • 42:08 - 42:15
    amazing! I have one question to ask. What
    was like the... way more like
  • 42:15 - 42:20
    surprising moments for you in this, like,
    research journey.
  • 42:20 - 42:28
    Paula: OK, that's a good question.
    Biella: I mean. In terms of the
  • 42:28 - 42:36
    project, you know, collaborating with
    others and building a Web site is very
  • 42:36 - 42:40
    different than what academics often do,
    where we do often have to rely on
  • 42:40 - 42:44
    ourselves and we get feedback. You know
    what I mean? And I think it does give a
  • 42:44 - 42:51
    sense of the really beautiful relations
    that form, where you go back and forth
  • 42:51 - 42:55
    with an author, with a web developer. You
    know, it really does give you a sense of
  • 42:55 - 43:00
    the deep social ties that we do have as
    academics. But I think it's much, much
  • 43:00 - 43:07
    deeper with hackers. That's one thing. But
    I do think I mean, I am frustrated as an
  • 43:07 - 43:12
    academic, where a lot of people do have
    very, very, very narrow conceptions of
  • 43:12 - 43:16
    hackers. It's not a perfect world. And
    there's a lot which, you know, we can
  • 43:16 - 43:22
    change. There is very clear also that as
    academics, we weren't necessarily changing
  • 43:22 - 43:29
    perceptions so much. And this project was
    an effort to finally do that. It's like
  • 43:29 - 43:33
    see them like stop listening or reading
    just my words, because obviously that's
  • 43:33 - 43:38
    not really changing chat, you know, so
    come see some of the videos. Yeah.
  • 43:38 - 43:42
    Paula: Yeah. And I guess for me, I also
    mean, if you work in your own little
  • 43:42 - 43:47
    bubble and you work in your own little
    corner, just in any type of science, you
  • 43:47 - 43:50
    don't see as much as what's going on out
    of there. And I for me, the whole
  • 43:50 - 43:55
    definition of what it is to hack what a
    hacker actually is, you start really
  • 43:55 - 44:00
    opening your eyes out when you see while
    there's 50 hundred other scholars out
  • 44:00 - 44:04
    there that are actually think that a
    hacker is this or hackers that. And I
  • 44:04 - 44:08
    think for me, that opened my eyes up
    really saying, hey, well, this is what you
  • 44:08 - 44:14
    think it means. So interesting know.
    Herald: Thank you. Now a question from
  • 44:14 - 44:17
    mic 2, too, please.
    Mic2: Hi, thank you for the talk. It was
  • 44:17 - 44:22
    very enlightening. I have two questions.
    The first one would be, could you tell us
  • 44:22 - 44:29
    maybe a bit more about the server and
    infrastructure you using or are you just
  • 44:29 - 44:35
    linking YouTube videos? And the second one
    would be, how would you envision future
  • 44:35 - 44:40
    engagement with students? Because I'm
    teaching a course for computer scientists
  • 44:40 - 44:45
    undergrads. And we did something
    similar around movies and descriptions
  • 44:45 - 44:50
    that they have to make around hacker
    movies. And they don't really learn how to
  • 44:50 - 44:56
    reflect on social issues a lot in the
    studies. So I wonder how does this could
  • 44:56 - 45:02
    be integrated into platform and how that
    could how you could engage students further?
  • 45:02 - 45:06
    Biella: So great questions. I mean, first
    of all, for the Web site, it runs on
  • 45:06 - 45:14
    WordPress. It just seemed like an easy way
    to, like, hack it up for this sort of
  • 45:14 - 45:19
    thing. And we hired actually a master
    student from my department at McGill
  • 45:19 - 45:28
    University. Thanks to all. You're awesome.
    And then we're hosting the videos on Vimeo
  • 45:28 - 45:32
    and they come from all sorts of different
    places. That's actually not the best or
  • 45:32 - 45:37
    the most ideal solution. And so far as
    like, you know, who knows if Vimeo is
  • 45:37 - 45:42
    going to exist in 15 years? Right.
    Internet Archive. We looked into them and
  • 45:42 - 45:46
    they were kind of like psyched about it,
    that it was going to be slower to deliver
  • 45:46 - 45:54
    the video. Right? So maybe if the project
    grows, we can at a certain point host our
  • 45:54 - 46:00
    own videos. Right? But like we'll have to
    sort of graduate there at the next level.
  • 46:00 - 46:06
    The entries are all going to be creative
    comments and we're using clips that then we
  • 46:06 - 46:12
    cite the entire clip and where it came
    from. We consider this fair use and for
  • 46:12 - 46:16
    those that may be wondering. And so we'll
    see how that goes.
  • 46:16 - 46:20
    Paula: And for the second, I guess I could
    take the second question. When ever I
  • 46:20 - 46:23
    mean, my students are not their digital
    media students. They're not from computing
  • 46:23 - 46:29
    science. But if you ever even try to touch
    along something around culture or
  • 46:29 - 46:34
    something, maybe real social science is
    always, I think, ask how is power really
  • 46:34 - 46:38
    how these people relate to power? How did
    they relate to critique? How do they use
  • 46:38 - 46:42
    these tools to critique something? And I
    think all of these videos and maybe even
  • 46:42 - 46:46
    the videos that your students chose, if
    they just asked that question, whether
  • 46:46 - 46:50
    they're studying computing science,
    whether they're studying geography or
  • 46:50 - 46:54
    whatever it is, if they look at it from a
    form of power and how it's contested, I
  • 46:54 - 46:58
    think that that's a way in which they they
    really can engage into a certain topic
  • 46:58 - 47:05
    really deeply. That's cool. There's a nice
    little text by Fuko with what's called
  • 47:05 - 47:09
    what is critique. That's it. I use it for
    my students that are non maybe cultural
  • 47:09 - 47:14
    studies students or whatever. And there's
    a nice little text that could be with
  • 47:14 - 47:16
    Herald: Thank you. One more question from
  • 47:16 - 47:20
    mic 2, please.
    Mic2: So thank you again. And I wanted
  • 47:20 - 47:26
    to ask you, because I looked at the videos
    on the site and I see a lot of stories of
  • 47:26 - 47:31
    single people and I'm quite surprised to
    find very little stories of communities
  • 47:31 - 47:37
    and showcases of hacker spaces. And a lot
    of researchers I've spoke about are
  • 47:37 - 47:42
    actually focusing on like how communities
    work. So was there any conscious decision
  • 47:42 - 47:48
    that you want to tell singular
    people, singular person stories instead of
  • 47:48 - 47:53
    like communities?
    Biella: First of all, it's a great piece
  • 47:53 - 47:57
    of feedback because I mean, one of the
    things as an anthropologist that I've
  • 47:57 - 48:02
    always loved about the hacker world is on
    the one hand, you know, people often talk
  • 48:02 - 48:08
    about rights that are are tied to notions
    of individualism. But hacking is so
  • 48:08 - 48:13
    collectivist. Right. I mean, look at the
    CCC. I mean, you can't have a better
  • 48:13 - 48:18
    example of a kind of ritual, collective,
    effervescent experience, hacker spaces.
  • 48:18 - 48:23
    Right. So I do think it's really important
    to try to showcase that. And we do, we do
  • 48:23 - 48:29
    have videos around hacker spaces and
    they're being written up like the authors
  • 48:29 - 48:34
    are writing about them now. But if that's
    not coming through the sites, we actually
  • 48:34 - 48:40
    need to write. But it does show I mean,
    one of the problems with video and we and
  • 48:40 - 48:44
    we will reflect on this is that on the one
    hand, while you could put a face to
  • 48:44 - 48:49
    hacking, which is great. It's like it's
    not the hooded person video has its own
  • 48:49 - 48:54
    limits. Right? Often it's an individual.
    It's often what journalists are interested
  • 48:54 - 48:59
    in. And we also have to make sure that
    this isn't the whole of hacking and also
  • 48:59 - 49:05
    at times use the video to tell a different
    story than what the video is showing. So I
  • 49:05 - 49:09
    think that's a great comment. And we're
    going to keep that in mind because to me,
  • 49:09 - 49:13
    the collectivist community, part of
    hacking. Is one of the most amazing parts
  • 49:13 - 49:16
    that never makes it into kind of
    mainstream representation.
  • 49:16 - 49:19
    Paula: That's right. Thank you.
    Herald: Thank you.
  • 49:19 - 49:21
    Herald: Then we have a question from the
  • 49:21 - 49:29
    Internet. First Internet.
    Biella: Internet. Tell us. Talk to us.
  • 49:29 - 49:36
    Signal Angel: That question from the Internet is:
    when covering international scenes, scenes
  • 49:36 - 49:42
    like Phrack magazine use as source material.
    Biella: Is Phrack magazine a source?
  • 49:42 - 49:45
    Signal Angel: Yeah.
    Biella: Yeah. I mean, Phrack magazine.
  • 49:45 - 49:52
    Remember the video that I showed around
    the fake French CCC? That is a larger
  • 49:52 - 49:59
    project around how parts of the
    underground went pro and started doing
  • 49:59 - 50:06
    security work. And Phrack is amazing. I
    mean, Phrack tells so much of that story.
  • 50:06 - 50:10
    And what is also so interesting, because
    I've done like almost 26 interviews, in-
  • 50:10 - 50:16
    depth interviews around on this. And like
    you'd expect in many hacker circles,
  • 50:16 - 50:21
    there's a lot of diversity of opinions.
    And the one thing that people agree on was
  • 50:21 - 50:25
    that like Phrack was awesome, technically.
    And it brought very different types of
  • 50:25 - 50:32
    people together. You know, Phrack hasn't
    come up in the video because it's one of
  • 50:32 - 50:37
    these things that hasn't been documented.
    Right? So much in documentaries or film.
  • 50:37 - 50:41
    And again, it points to that problem,
    which is on the one hand, we're trying to
  • 50:41 - 50:46
    show the faces of hacking. But we also
    have to make very, very clear, that
  • 50:46 - 50:51
    there's certain parts of hacker history
    that don't exist in video and don't take
  • 50:51 - 50:57
    this as the definitive sort of word or
    record.
  • 50:57 - 51:00
    Herald: Now the question from microphone
    2, please.
  • 51:00 - 51:06
    Mic2: Hi, I'm... I was wondering,
    whether you plan to expand your
  • 51:06 - 51:15
    categories. If I didn't miss anything
    to something for example as in my PhD.
  • 51:15 - 51:22
    Examples of hacking connected with biology,
    genetics and digital fabrication,
  • 51:22 - 51:24
    neuro-hacking and so on.
    Biella: Ja.
  • 51:24 - 51:31
    Mic2.: So here that the CCC does a track
    dedicated to science that I think it's
  • 51:31 - 51:35
    somehow related. Thanks.
    Biella: Great. Yeah. So if I can come
  • 51:35 - 51:41
    correctly, I think we have 11 categories
    and we absolutely are expanding and like
  • 51:41 - 51:45
    bio hacking is one that we want include
    because actually, you know, hackers are
  • 51:45 - 51:50
    like creating insulin in the context of
    the United States, where insulin is
  • 51:50 - 51:55
    ridiculously expensive, like some of the
    most important hacking I think is
  • 51:55 - 52:00
    happening. So we're absolutely going to
    expand by a handful. We also don't want to
  • 52:00 - 52:07
    go much more beyond 15 or 18. And one of
    the ways that we're also then handling
  • 52:07 - 52:14
    that is that each entry comes with tags
    and then there's gonna be other groupings
  • 52:14 - 52:21
    around tags. But it's certainly I mean,
    what you've seen is alive. It's alive, it's
  • 52:21 - 52:25
    alive, but it's also very much beta, you
    know.
  • 52:25 - 52:29
    Paula: And it and if you've written also
    on this topic and you have an interesting
  • 52:29 - 52:34
    video, please email us, send it over. We'd
    be really interested to hear about your
  • 52:34 - 52:39
    research. Yeah. Yeah.
    Herald: And then we have another question
  • 52:39 - 52:41
    on mic 1, please.
    Mic1: Thank you. Thank you.
  • 52:41 - 52:47
    My question is for Biella.
    And it's about would you say that your
  • 52:47 - 52:55
    work be done on Anonymous affected the way
    you engage with working with video
  • 52:55 - 53:04
    after going deep into seeing, how
    Anonymous uses video as a medium to engage
  • 53:04 - 53:07
    with the public as compared to other
    activist groups who are way less
  • 53:07 - 53:11
    successful in that?
    Biella: That's great. I mean, that is
  • 53:11 - 53:16
    definitely, you know, I on the one hand
    always use video in my class. And it's not
  • 53:16 - 53:20
    just like hackers. You know, if I'm
    talking about Martin Luther King and
  • 53:20 - 53:27
    something he said, I will show a video of
    what he said. Because having me repeat it
  • 53:27 - 53:33
    versus having MLK on the screen it's a lot
    more persuasive. And we are in a moment
  • 53:33 - 53:37
    where truth is not winning the game and we
    have to think about our game of
  • 53:37 - 53:41
    persuasion. Right? That's just this is a
    kind of side project. But you're
  • 53:41 - 53:46
    absolutely right. It was also Anonymous
    who used so many videos. Right. In a
  • 53:46 - 53:51
    period where, sure, others had to use
    videos. But it was groups like, for
  • 53:51 - 53:57
    example, Indymedia who's turned 20 this
    year, who took videos of the world around
  • 53:57 - 54:03
    us, whereas Anonymous created videos as a
    means for persuasion. And it was very
  • 54:03 - 54:09
    powerful at the time. And I am... I am
    inspired to think about how can we think
  • 54:09 - 54:16
    about persuasive mediums in all contexts
    in order to get our message out. Because
  • 54:16 - 54:22
    again, we're not always winning in this
    regard. Truth can never speak on its own,
  • 54:22 - 54:29
    right? And we always need adjuncts and
    adjuvants in order to get truth's message
  • 54:29 - 54:33
    out there. And certainly it was Anonymous
    in part that that helped me see the
  • 54:33 - 54:40
    importance of video and in a new way. So
    I'm really glad you mentioned that.
  • 54:40 - 54:44
    Herald: Thank you. And then we have
    another question from the Internet.
  • 54:44 - 54:48
    Signal-engel: Yeah, and the next question
    from the Internet is: how will you select
  • 54:48 - 54:54
    the right curators for the entries
    and how do they decide how they are
  • 54:54 - 54:59
    presented and contextualized?
    Biella: All right. So, I mean, I've been
  • 54:59 - 55:05
    working on hacker cultures for since 1998.
    Paula: Mine is a journey has been a
  • 55:05 - 55:09
    little bit shorter, but also for about 10
    years or so.
  • 55:09 - 55:14
    Biella: Yeah. And so I do, I know a lot of
    people working on different topics. And
  • 55:14 - 55:20
    for the first round, we invited people.
    And it wasn't just academics. I have
  • 55:20 - 55:24
    gotten journalists and hackers are writing
    some entries as well. But they're just
  • 55:24 - 55:29
    like a little bit harder to kind of get
    them to turn in their entries. But
  • 55:29 - 55:33
    hopefully they will, because, again, it's
    it's not just who's been credentialed to
  • 55:33 - 55:40
    talk about a topic. It's who knows about a
    topic, who has something to say and who's
  • 55:40 - 55:45
    willing to go through the editing process.
    Because while journalists generally don't
  • 55:45 - 55:49
    have to go through multiple edits because
    you all just really know how to write for
  • 55:49 - 55:55
    the public, everyone else actually does
    struggle a little bit. And we do really
  • 55:55 - 56:00
    try to get the entries written in such a
    way where we're presuming, you know,
  • 56:00 - 56:06
    nothing about hackers or the video. It's
    not always easy, then, to write an entry,
  • 56:06 - 56:12
    that kind of starts from that that low
    level. And then in terms of the
  • 56:12 - 56:19
    contextualization, that's where we have
    three editors and curators. And I would
  • 56:19 - 56:26
    actually even say four because our final
    editor, Matt Gorson. He was an M.A.
  • 56:26 - 56:31
    student under me. He's doing a big project
    on security, hacking with me at data and
  • 56:31 - 56:36
    society. He knows a ton. And it's
    precisely having many eyeballs on one
  • 56:36 - 56:43
    entry that allows us to hopefully
    contextualize it properly. But, you know,
  • 56:43 - 56:48
    again, if something seems off, people
    should email us. And again, we're also
  • 56:48 - 56:53
    open to responses from the community as
    well, which we have one response from
  • 56:53 - 56:58
    Naomi. But, you know, perhaps that will
    kind of grow into something larger.
  • 56:58 - 57:03
    Paula: So when you ask why or why is it us
    that are curating, who's curating, really,
  • 57:03 - 57:07
    it's just the three of us that are doing
    this. And what kind of speech position are
  • 57:07 - 57:10
    we coming from? I mean, we're
    anthropologists of hacker cultures. What
  • 57:10 - 57:15
    does that mean? May for you guys, it
    doesn't mean much or it means a lot. Or
  • 57:15 - 57:19
    it's really we've studied you guys for a
    long time.
  • 57:19 - 57:23
    Biella: Yes. But it's it's also cool
    because it's like, well, except for Paula.
  • 57:23 - 57:29
    I mean, Chris and I like we have tenure
    and that may mean nothing to you all. But,
  • 57:29 - 57:35
    you know, hackers care about freedom and
    free speech and tenure allows you to be
  • 57:35 - 57:37
    free.
    Puala: I have tenure now.
  • 57:37 - 57:41
    Biella: Oh, you do? Sweet. We all are free
    to kind of do what we want in interesting
  • 57:41 - 57:46
    ways. And again, we're trying to
    experiment with mediums that go a little
  • 57:46 - 57:50
    bit beyond the academic journal, which I'm
    totally behind. I think there's really
  • 57:50 - 57:53
    good things about the academic journal. I
    think there's really good things about the
  • 57:53 - 58:00
    book. But we have the freedom to
    experiment with new mediums. And so
  • 58:00 - 58:05
    hopefully this this new medium will kind
    of reach different types of publics in a
  • 58:05 - 58:12
    way that kind of academic journal articles
    will never reach.
  • 58:12 - 58:18
    Herald: Are there any more questions?
    Paula: Party. Party.
  • 58:18 - 58:21
    Herald: It doesn't look like it. So I
    would like to invite you for another round
  • 58:21 - 58:23
    of applause for Biella and Paula.
  • 58:23 - 58:24
    Applause
  • 58:24 - 58:26
    Biella und Paula: Thank you guys, thank
    you so much.
  • 58:26 - 58:35
    36C3 Postroll music
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