Thomas Hirschhorn: "Gramsci Monument" | Art21 "Extended Play"

[Thomas Hirschhorn: "Gramsci Monument"]

[Forest Houses, Bronx, New York]

["Gramsci Monument" (2013)]

[Opening of the "Gramsci Monument"]

[July 1st - 10 am - 7 pm]

Harry Drake: Alright, sorry to interrupt.

This is the man of the hour.

This is the man, besides Erik,
that brought everything to us.

Yasmil Raymond: Thomas believes
that "more is more."

You know, it's a pun on Mies van der Rohe,
who said, "less is more."

And in this "more and more" philosoph
of Thomas Hirschhorn,

it means an enormous amount
of activities all the time,

almost confusing what is happening.

Harry Drake: What you are doing
for this community and everything...

Thomas Hirschhorn: No I don't...

I don't do something for the community.

I do something, I hope, for art...

HD: Okay.

TH: And the understanding of art.

My goal is this.

Lex Brown: Something Thomas always says

is that did not come here
to, like, help people,

he came here to Forest Houses
and asked people who lived here

to help him make the artwork.

And there's a really big difference.

There's a huge difference
between those two things.

Freddy Velez: Thomas asked me to translate
the Gramsci prison notes to Spanish.

That was a great opportunity for me,

and I just put retirement to the side
and just began working with his art.

And here I am today, two months later,
enjoying myself every day

and I feel a lot better.

Janet Bethea: I was more stronger
than half of the men over there.

I built those buildings.

I did the dollies underneath there,
on the floor.

I did all that with the guys.

Except for the roof.
I'm scared of heights.

Stanley Scott: My name is "Stan the Man".

- Stan the Man?
- Stan the Man.

- Oh, I saw your sign.
- Yes, indeed.

- And I work for love.
- We know.

SS: It's not about the bills.

It's not about the money.

Anything I make, I make from my heart.

You know, once your love is in it

the money's going to come.

That's why I joined the monument,
because it's like art.

Food is like art. You know, cooking.

Making something out of nothing.

You know, making those dishes look good.

Like, oh, that shit's pretty.

Let's see if it tastes pretty.

When people ask you:
"What is this project?" what do you say?

Dannion Jordan: Well I walk them over
to the brochures...

Janet Bethea:
It's a monument of something.

Freddy Velez: A positive place
for art and study.

Dannion Jordan: You know,
they had a smoothie bar.

Janet Bethea: They can go in the library,
read books.

Dannion Jordan: A WiFi station up here...

Erik Farmer: A monument
usually is something

that is stable, it doesn’t move.

This is a temporary monument
— something I never heard of

but Thomas explained to me,
you know, what he wanted to do

and how he wanted to integrate
the residents into the monument,

as in giving them jobs

and wanting to teach the kids about art.

Dannion Jordan: He doesn't want anything
to interfere with his monument,

Whether it's rain, Dia, Nycha...

he doesn't want anything
to interfere with his project.

If you're not interfering with his project
everything is good.

What happens when you interfere?

DJ: Yeah, he just...you know,
he gets crazy.

He starts screaming,
uses his fingers and everything.

TH: Sunday... Sunday even...

Yasmil Raymond:
Yes, but I'm here Saturday and Sunday...

TH: I am the artist!

Man: I look and see there's no one
sitting in there first...

HD: He'll be like, "No."

Marcella Paradise: And if you can't stay
to three o’clock or four

— which we stay till four all the time —

you get put out the class.

TH: Okay? We are not observers,
there is no observer.

Harry Drake. Thomas is not white.
He's not European.

He's black.

Marcus Green: I was very inspired
by Thomas's poster.

And on the poster it says,
"All humans are intellectuals."

So, the quote that I want to begin with
— which is quote number one —

is taken from that notion.

Lex Brown: Gramsci's idea
that every person is an intellectual

is an incredibly important idea.

It's a huge part of the project

and it is touched upon
in every part of it.

Adam Guessongo: My name is Adam.

I do graffiti, I draw,

and I make sculpture.

Or like, this, I'm not done with it yet...

I'm not done with this, but I was trying
to make a character from a game.

Dannion Jordan:
You're learning, you're teaching,

but it's more like people just...
you know, you got Thomas here.

It's more about people gathering
just still getting to learn one another.

Because I don't really know
all these guys that I work with,

I just know them through other people.

You all get to know each other,
you learn from each other,

and, you know, that's basically it.

[Destruction is difficult;
it is as difficult as creation]

Erik Farmer: This is history right here

because it's never been done.

So when someone speaks about it
— someone may try to do it —

but, at the end of the day,
it was done at Forest Houses first.

Big. Huge.

[Quality should be attributed
to human beings, not to things.]

Lex Brown: People have to come here,
to the monument, to see the monument.

This project is site-specific
in the most true sense of that phrase.

It's as important that this monument
will be here for two and a half months

as it is that it will not be here
after two and a half months.

There's an urgency to it.

And without that urgency,
it would not be the same thing.

Transcript by
Review by Margarida Ferreira