Public Money? Public Code! During Corona

Herald (De): Herzlich willkommen im Hacker
Morgengrauen im Stream der c-base der

Raumstation unter Berlin Mitte. Das ist
schon der zweite Talk heute. Wir begrüßen

diesmal Alex. Hallo, Alex.
Alexander: Hallo. Guten Morgen.

Herald: Alexander Sander zum Thema Public
Code in der Pandemie. Public Money, Public

Code. Genauer gesagt. Also wir möchten
doch gerne für das sauer abgesparte

Steuergeld auch Dinge zurückbekommen und
nicht Dinge, wo wir hinterher nicht ran

dürfen und nicht reingucken dürfen und
nichts mit machen dürfen. Und welche

Bedeutung das hat. Und warum das
langfristig noch wichtiger wird. Das wird

Alex uns gleich lang und breit erklären.
So lang und so breit wie nötig. Bis

ungefähr 1 Uhr. Und wenn ihr Fragen habt,
dann benutzt den Hashtag rc3 und dann

werden wir versuchen das in dem Pad zu
materialisieren und noch kurz drüber zu

sprechen um 1. Gut. Alex, dann halbe
Stunde für dich. Viel Spaß.

Alex (De): Ja, vielen Dank.

Alex (En): Good morning, everyone. 12:30
laughs hacker morning. That's that's

lovely. Yeah. So in the next 30 minutes, I
will talk about the public money, public

code and what role free software played
during the crisis and is still playing.

And so my name is Alexander Sander. I'm
policy consultant of the Free Software

Foundation Europe, and we are a charity
that empowers users to control technology.

And yeah, we do believe that free software
plays a crucial role here. So to get us in

the mood, I think you all remember it was
around March last year when the borders

have been closed because of the crisis. So
we wanted to avoid contacts. And yeah, one

solution back in the days was to close
borders. And as you know, free movement is

a fundamental right. And to fix this
issue, software played important role and

contact tracing apps, for example, have
been pushed on the market to fix this. And

I will talk about this a bit later. And
also, we have seen us and many of us in

home office and again here. Software, was
very important and as well free software

played an important role. And as said in
the next minutes, I will tell you why and

free software is important and as and
specifically what free software solutions

helped us to tackle the crisis. So
everybody loves free software, especially,

I think, around c-base and the Congress
free software is pretty well known.

However, let me introduce you quickly the
concept of free software. So it's also

sometimes called libre software, open
source software. But free software always

comes with 4 freedoms, and it's the
freedom to use, study, share and improve.

This means free software gives you the
freedom to use the software for any

purpose you want. Without any
restrictions, you are free to study the

code so it can be analyzed by anyone so
you can see the code. You can see what the

software is going to do, what it does. You
also free to share the software without

any limitations. So there are no like
license costs or something like this, so

you can install it on as many workstations
as you want and so on. But here, please

keep in mind the price doesn't matter. So
free is not coming with the price in

general. So you can also sell free
software and this is also done, but you

are free to share it afterwards. And also,
you are free to improve the software. You

can modify it. And by this you can give
back to the community. And whenever we

have these 4 freedoms to use, study, share
and improve, then it is free software or s

said there are many names like open
source, libre software and so on. And

these 4 freedoms helped us during the
crisis a lot when it came to software

solutions to give you a better
understanding of the 4 freedoms I just

named. In practical terms, I have this
slide here for you where I will first show

you the problems of proprietary software.
So software, which is not coming with this

4 freedoms and on the other hand, on a
practical way, the 4 freedoms as a

solution for free software. So first, they
are. The major problem was proprietary

software is that there is no
interoperability at all. You might have

laughing this problem as well a lot. So it's the
thing that you are stuck in an ecosystem.

And if you buy a piece of software from
one vendor, you always have to go back to

this one vendor. To like broaden your
system, so programs are not working

together, so there is no connection and
but as we call it interoperability, this

is something we don't see at proprietary
software. But as you are coming into this

vendor lock in, as said. If you buy one
piece of software, let's say office

solution, then you need to buy a mail
program, or presentation thingy or

something like this from the same vendor.
Because as you want, have want to have

interoperability, these proprietary
vendors only give you interoperability in

their own system. But if you want to go
out of the system, then you run into

struggles, and there's no interoperability
at all. So this is a problem with data

sharing with others, but also like
collaborative working and so on. And this

also means that these pieces of software
came with unpredictable costs. So first of

all, you have to buy a piece of software.
Then you do not know how much you have to

pay for the other pieces you might need in
the future. But also, you don't know at

one point you have to pay for upgrades for
updates and so on. And so it's really hard

to estimate the costs for the software in
the future. And this is also a huge

problem which is coming with proprietary
software. And also as you have to pay for

the license first, and many also like for
a license for every workstation and so on.

Your investments are lost so you can't
invest the money into the coding, but you

just pay for licensing. And so that's why
your investments are also just lost in the

very beginning. And we have seen during
the crisis I will show you some examples

that's later that there's also a very low
acceptance by citizens if they have to, or

if they are forced to use proprietary
software. And in the end, there are also

security issues. As you can't look into
the code, you might don't find backdoors,

for example, or you can't see if the
software is really is going to do what

it's supposed to do. And so therefore
proprietary software also comes with

security issues. And so on the other hand,
we have the solution. It's risk free

software because we have there, we have
these open standards. This is coming from

the 4 freedoms as you are free, for
example, to look in the code as you can

modify it and so on, and as it based on
open standard we have this

interoperability by default. And so we
can, like work together across borders,

and it's very easy to collaborate if you
are using free software because you have

these interoperability by default. Also
you are highly independent through the

free licenses. So the 4 freedoms are
always guaranteed when it is free

software, so you are free to modify and
adapt it to your needs. You are free to

share it, to use it in as many
workstations as you want and so on, as

just said. So you are highly independent,
by this you can also collaborate, and this

is also something we have seen heavily
during the crisis. That collaboration is

key, especially when it comes to global
crisis. We need to work across borders. We

need to collaborate across borders. And so
this this collaboration, we can share

risks, but also costs. So this is a big
advantage of free software and also you

can involve local partners. So this is
especially something we see when it comes

to the use of free software within
administrations, public bodies. So

whenever governments are using free
software, then there's a huge involvement

of local partners, which is also like a
strengthening not only the software

project but also the region and so on. And
it is transparent by default, as you can

see the code. This is very important. It's
also one of the freedoms. And because of

this transparency, you can see the code.
And by this, you can, for example,

identify bugs. You can fix bugs quickly.
And so free software gives you the

advantage to make your software even more
secure. And so free software isn't secure

by default, but you have the chance to
quickly find security issues, but also

other issues and fix them immediately. So
and this is also a big advantage, so you

don't have to go back to a vendor and ask
him if he can fix something. You can

simply do it by your own or the community
can thus. So with all of this, you can

also already see why it is a very good
idea to use free software in general, but

also in particular during a crisis, which
is. What we have seen, especially during

the corona crisis. So we need to work
together because global problems need

global solutions, so as already said
during the corona crisis, we have seen a

lot that there was free software around
and that that was very good, that we used

free software and not proprietary
software. And that especially in the

beginning, there were very interesting
debates around it. I think you might

remember the tracing apps and so on, but
we have seen that here in global crisis

the demands are very similar. So for
example, when it comes to contact tracing

or something like this, we have seen that
specific software and specific hardware is

and was needed. And for Home Office, for
example, or for remote working, we have

seen this and especially with the tracing
and now we see certificate apps, we see

that they are more or less the same
demands around the world. And especially

if we look at Europe, they are more or
less the same solutions as we want to.

Yeah, the European region without borders
and so on. And here again, the solution is

that we need interoperability. So we need
these open standards to be able to

collaborate, to work together and to also
use the free licenses and to spread the

software as wide as possible. And also
that we need to foster the innovation and

collaborate. So we have seen this a lot,
that it was very important that it's not

only coders who work on a project and not
only a nation or a specific region working

on a project, but that we have to involve
many stakeholders from many countries

working on specific projects. And this is
only possible with free software as we can

work and collaborate across borders. And
we have also seen that the transparency of

free software gives us acceptance, and
this is very important, especially if you

want to roll out software projects on a
very large level. You need acceptance,

especially by citizens that they use the
systems, and therefore transparency is and

also was key. And yeah, as said as you can
involve all stakeholders, this is also a

big advantage. And I want to give you a
concrete example now, with the apps. I

think most of you are using at least 1 or 2
of these laughing free software apps, which

are around at the moment. And when the
debate started, it was also like one and a half

years ago we were discussing these contact
tracing apps, and it was a discussion if

it should be centralized, decentralized,
if it should be free software or

proprietary software and so on. And we
very quickly jumped in with a press

release and advocated around governments
with 3 demands, and they are still valid

today. And the 1st demand is that no
matter what it is, these apps need to be

used voluntarily. So this is not that much
on free software, but it's also a key that

it's a voluntary. But then it also must
respect fundamental rights. So whenever

these apps are introduced and when they
are health data, for example, in these

apps are, then we must respect fundamental
rights, for example, the right to privacy

and so on. And we can only see if
fundamental rights are protected, if the

code is transparent and if you can prove
that the software is really going to do

what it's supposed to do. And in the end,
so we set all of these apps and solutions

need to be free software, and we have been
very successful with this demand and there

was a very huge debate. And what makes us
very happy was that there was not only a

debate and not only the apps have been
released as free software, but there were

some fundamental statements during the
time, for example, from the World Health

Organization. And they said they need to
be full, there need to be full

transparency and these apps need to be
open sourced and also the European eHealth

network. So this is the European
Commission and the member states of the

European Union released the toolbox for
the member states, where they said already

defined how these mobile applications need
to be designed in the European Union. And

here they said also that it need to be
open sourced and. What makes us very happy

that they're not just said it need to be
open source, but they also said it's good

for reuse, it's good for interoperability,
it's good for the security and the

transparency. And so they followed our
arguments fully, and this is very

important that the European Union, but
also the World Health Organization,

quickly understood that it's only free
software that can help us during this time

and the crisis. And we have quickly seen
that there is this community engagement

and that it's not just about hackers and
coders who improve apps, but it's also

about translations, for example. So we
need people with language skills, but also

especially when it comes to the tracing
apps. We also need, like scientists from

all areas who can tell us how such a virus
spread and so on, and how we can trace it.

So here we have seen how global
cooperation can work and can lead to a

situation that we have a very good app in
the end, which helps us in this case for

contact tracing in the very beginning. And
here you can see what happened on git, but

also with the CovPass app. We have seen
that it's now available on F-droid.

Unfortunately, in Germany the CovPass app,
so this is the app which gives you your

COVID certificate that your vaccinated,
for example. And so in Germany, this app

was free software, but it was not released
on F-droid and F-droid is a free software

app store. So the yeah, the better app
store compared to Play Store, because in

F-droid, you can only find free software.
But what happened is that the community

again stepped in, so volunteers helped us
to make it possible that this app is now

also available on F-droid and ?. Yeah,
it's also possible to use it on more

devices than before, and it's also free to
use without any Google services, which is

also very important when it comes to
privacy and so on. So here we have seen

that with the use of free software, we can
make this app available to everyone and we

can ensure that fundamental rights are
respected and that everything is based on

free software and that you, for example,
don't need Google services to use these

apps. But on the other hand, what happened
later? So after the good news, yeah, as

said there are also always bad news. In
October last year, the European Commission

released a Open-Source strategy, so just a
year later, after they said when it comes

to the CovPass apps and COVID apps, where
they said it's important that they are

transparent because of security reasons,
interoperability and so on, they gave

themselves a strategy. So the European
Commission released an open source

strategy for themselves how they want to
act and how they want to use free software

in the future. And unfortunately, there
they watered down a lot. So it was not

like that, they said. So now we learned,
and we want to have now everything on free

software because this is our learning from
the crisis this is our learning from the

last decades. No. They said they want to
release their solutions wherever it makes

sense to do so as open source. And they
also want to be in the position to choose

non open technologies where there are good
reasons to do so. So but at the same time,

they never, ever defined what are good
reasons and where something makes sense.

So this is completely open. And so what is
good, on the one hand, is that they have

something like open source strategy so
that they are thinking about it, that they

are giving themselves the strategy. But at
the same time, if they releasing this

paper, with so many loopholes we fear that
there won't be a major change here. And I

think or we do believe that not only the
crisis has shown us that free software is

the way to go, but also like the last
decades and also before the crisis. We

have advocating a lot around this, and we
have seen many administrations who have

very good experience with free software,
not only when it comes to crisis but also

in general. Again, think about Home
Office, think about video chats. What we

are do using here today, jitsi a free
software tool, but also BigBlueButton, is

for example one so nobody has to be forced
to use proprietary solutions like Zoom or

something like this. So they are very good
free software tools on the market. And

there are good reasons to use them,
especially when it comes to

administrations, because they are in
contact with citizens with us. And I think

this is again a learning from the crisis.
Transparency, for example, is key, but

also interoperability so that we are free
to use whatever device we want, but are

still in the position to communicate with
administrations. So and they also said

they want to set up a small, open source
program office. There is no budget at all

for this. So what sounds very good from
the very first page, so »think open«

that's the title of the strategy, turns
out to be a paper full of loopholes, and

we are still in contact with the European
Commission in order to learn what they are

doing. From what we have seen so far. It's
not that much. They just released another

new paper. And um, but still, we don't see
any budget. We don't see any people

working on this so that were specifically
hired for this after the strategy was

introduced and so on. So, but yes. Stay
tuned. Hopefully we can release some news

on this soonish on our website, but the
commission is very, let's say, closed when

we ask about they think open strategy.
Which is at the same time, very strange.

And so I said already before the crisis,
not only us, but 100s of organizations and

also 10s of 1000s of individuals demanded
that publicly financed software must be be

made publicly available under a free
software license. And I think with a

crisis we have learned that it's now even
more important than ever before to tell

administrations to convince
administrations to use free software, and

it's not only about crisis, but it's also
about digital sovereignty, for example. So

also for administrations, it's good to
know what a software does if they use it.

So it's in the core of our state digital
infrastructure and therefore the

administrations need to have the full
control over the software they are using.

And this is also true for everybody else,
like for us individuals, but also for

companies and civil society and so on. So
it's in terms of digital sovereignty, a

very good idea to use free software. But
it's also about our money. It's public

money, it's taxpayers money and public
bodies are financed through taxes, and

that's why they have to make sure they
spend their funds in the most efficient

way possible. And as I've shown to you, I
think there's only 1 solution and this is

free software in the and. And to give you
1 number here and just imagine this money

would have been invested in free software
in the last years. So the governments and

public bodies, public administrations are
the largest purchasers of IT goods and

services, and they comprise up to 27% of
the revenue of software firms. And so now

just think about if we would use these 27%
and invest it in free software and think

about the solutions we would have had
during the crisis already, for example, to

be able to have a secure workspace for
Home Office and so on, but also to be

available to be in a digital
administrations. And so I think this

number is very important and shows us that
there are many investments lost because we

are or administrations are still buying
proprietary software and didn't switch to

free software. So in the end, free
software gives you the many advantages you

can as said involve local partners. So
whenever administrations or public bodies

are procuring free software, we can see
that it's also strengthening the local

economy so licensing fees are not going
anymore to Ireland and the U.S., but it's

also highly efficient, so you don't have
to reinvent the wheel again and again. So

administrations all over the world have
pretty much more or less the same demands.

And so why do we have to reinvent the
wheel again and again and buy one piece of

software again and again? And so there's
absolutely no reason. And it would be way

more efficient to collaborate. And we can
also see that when administrations are

doing this, it's happening. And also
again, we have this digital sovereignty,

so you can have software which is tailored
to your needs and you can modify it

whenever you want and adapt to your needs.
And it's not just like a vendors business

model what you are following. And so
therefore free software is a very good

idea. So if you are in line with our
arguments and if you like our arguments,

you are still free to sign our campaign.
So 3 years, 4 years ago now. We started

our comparing public money public code
where we demand that whenever it's public

money, the code should be also public. And
so we want legislation requiring that

publicly financed software developed for
the public sector, need to be made

publicly available under a free software
license. And we are seeing more and more

treaties and also, for example, in the
coalition treaty in Germany, we have some

sentences on the use of free software. And
so we see that there is some progress

here. But still, we only need not only we
need to do more pressure here, we have to

fight for public money, public code still,
and we see more and more commitments. But

at the same time, we need to also follow
up with the implementation. As we have

seen, for example, with the European
Commission, their open source strategy,

which is called think open but full of
loopholes. Now it's important to see that

there is a good implementation because
this is key. Papers are important. Sure,

this is a 1st step, but now we need to
make sure that there's also a proper

implementation. And if you want to support
us with our demand, you can also sign this

campaign. If you haven't done already or
reach out to us, we have several

activities. We have an activity package
telling you how you can contact your local

administration and convince them to use
free software. Lots of our volunteers are

doing this, sometimes successfully. And so
I think this is important that we continue

to talk about the advantages of free
software and also use the example from the

crisis, I just have shown to you and
continue our efforts to convince

administration to switch to free software.
And with this, I want to end my talk and

would be up for questions if there are
some in the pad, in the meantime.

Herald: Thank thank you very, very much.
There's essentially 1 question popping up

on our pads here. And this is about this
term of digital sovereignty and whether

digital sovereignty funded by national
state actors would eventually mean that we

are sooner or later hacking for the
national security agencies of our

countries. And what that would imply to
for free software and the ethics of free

software.
Alex: I mean, there was a bit of

background noise, so I'm not sure if I
fully got it, but it's about if we would

like, if our community would like hack or
fix governments software, if this is in

line with the ethical principles of free
software, was this was, was this the

question or did I get it wrong?
H: Yes. (not audible)

A: But I'll try to I try to address this,
I think. Yeah. Governmental bodies are

using free software or should use free
software as they are handling our data as

they are communicating with us. And for
sure, also governmental bodies are using

software for surveillance, for example,
for reasons we might personally don't

like. And this is very different. So and
nobody should be forced to like invest the

time or resources to have governments to
fix their software. And it's also again on

procurement so as said free software
doesn't need to be priceless. So although

for us, it's important that if public
bodies are using software, then whatever,

it is it should be free software and this
gives us the chance to see code and, for

example, to discuss. And this also opens
debates. If you want a solution which is

going to work like this, and this doesn't
necessarily mean that we contribute to the

code, but we can also contribute to a
software by discussing what it does. Is

this something we want to have for our
society. Is this a software we really

need? And this is, I think, only possible
if we have something like, for example, a

repository for governmental software which
is used and then we can like check what

this is, what they are doing. And it
doesn't mean that that you have to do it,

but you are free to do it. And I think
this is important and this is also what we

have seen during the crisis. So there are
some general or fundamental discussions

about the apps and about tracing and so
on. But this is possible because it is

free software, and that doesn't mean that
you have to contribute to the code or that

you have to use it. So as we said, it's
important that it's that people can use it

voluntarily, but still you can contribute
even if you just debate around it. So and

I think this is important and that is why
we want free software. And I think in the

end, it's better to have a free software
project where you can see what the

software does and that are a government
tells you transparently what they are

going to do instead of doing it completely
secretly.

H: Very well, so that demonstrates that we
that we have maybe another problem or a

new problem, but a constructive one,
something we can work on. And this whole

issue of digital sovereignty and national
state actors must be discussed. As you

said, this was the main question from the
pad. So thank you for the talk this

morning.
A: Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, it

was fun. And yeah,enjoy the rest of the
conference then.

H: Yes, I hope you do too. Thank you.
A: Yeah. Thanks a lot. See you. Bye bye.

*Since. Everything is licensed under a CC
BY 4.0. And it is all for the community,

to download for every bot.*

Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de
in the year 2022. Join, and help us!