Disciple-making movements � - 75 families has already signed up before the kickstart �

Hello everyone out there!

I am in Nürnberg right now. We are
going to have a kickstart this weekend.

We will start tomorrow morning and
I'm here with Julio Mazara

And he works with Disciple Making Movents.

And we want to talk about that.

We want to do a video here where
we'll talk about

Disciple Making Movements.

We want to talk about what God is
doing

and I think that you will find this video
very, very interesting.

And we just want to talk about it.

First, before we start...

A few days ago, back in Denmark,
I was talking about fulfilling the race

and talked about what Paul is saying
in Corinthians,

that we are all in a run and we need
to run to win the prize.

And there it hits me. We often know
that we are in a run and in a race,

but what kind of race?

Is that a 100 meters race

or is it a marathon race

or is it a life race?

And the race, the run we are in,
it's not just 100 meters.

It's not about just starting and...

It's about finishing.
It'a about completing the race.

And what I've seen with many people,
especially younger people -

they start very fast - On fire!
They start and they run as fast as they can

and then 200, 500 meters, one kilometer,
they stop and they don't have

any more energy and they give up,
or bitterness come in and they give up,

sin come in and slow them, doctrines
of demons and wrong things,

tradition come in, and suddenly they
are running in the wrong direction,

and there are so many things that
can hinder us in finishing the race.

And what we want to. We don't want
just to make decisions.

We want to make disciples.

And you have a lot of experience also
with disciple making movements

and we want to talk about it.
And I want to hear what he have to say first,

and then I want to talk a little about the
Last Reformation,

what I see the next step is.

Yes, thank you, Torben. I think this is
the reality we are living in the West,

in the western churches, that we see that
people are coming to faith,

people are experiencing Jesus, somehow,
and invitation is more: Come,

and just experience what we can give you
in this gathering, in this meeting,

in this church service. And the calling
from Jesus Christ is not only come

and just raise your hands and say:
Yes, receive me now,

but it's just enter the door, the small
door, but walk through the narrow path.

It's a long distance run. It's a daily life.
You are making a decision daily

to receive the gospel and to be led
by the Spirit,

not only to be filled once,
but to continue being guided, led

by the Holy Spirit, daily decisions,
spiritual, big and small decisions.

And this reality is that...

I don't believe that this discipleship
can just happen in a gathering.

Discipleship happens daily.
Discipleship can happen across the table.

It's much easier when you are as a family,
as a group of people who are close,

confessing sins to one another,
living lives together,

experiencing how God is touching
people through your life, together.

We get discipled from the moment
we receive Jesus until we die.

Yeah. So, it's not like a three years
program and then you are

finished. You continue growing
the whole life.

And one thing with discipleship is -
you cannot do discipleship alone.

That is a body. That is where you,
actually, follow somebody

as they follow Christ and we follow
each other.

For people out there, they don't know
the word, maybe,

disciple making movement.

Now we are not talking about churches.
We are talking about movement,

disciple making movement.

Can you come with some examples
of disciple making movements

and what God is doing all over the world?

Yes, we believe that when Jesus Christ
said: As you go, make disciples

of all nations, and so on. This is the
call that is from Jesus Christ

to every single believer on earth.
It's not only for leaders,

it's not only for people that
went to Bible seminar.

It's for every believer,
that can go and make disciples.

We see around Europe what's happening.

We see south, Poland, around the
mountains,

people are just making disciples.

Thousands of people are coming
to faith and you meet them

and you just experience the love and
you experience the pure gospel

of Jesus Christ, they are experiencing
and they are living all together.

You go to some places where this
movements are just starting,

like in some countries in Europe. And you
can go on the other side of the globe

and see movement with 28
generations, 40 generations.

Like, how did God do that?
Through simple people

that are not just going to a gathering,
but they know:

Okay, making disciples is about
each one of us.

We are filled with God's Spirit,
with God's presence

and wherever we go, we share
the gospel of Jesus Christ.

That's making disciples.

I remember, before many years ago,
when we were working with church planting,

and then I went to Sweden and I met
a guy from India

who was working with a disciple movement
down there,

and they the last ten years have baptized
five million people.

And it was really mind-blowing.
First time I met that,

because in my little world at that time
I was like:

But this is not what I hear and see
ond God TV and Christian channels.

It's not what I read in Christian
newspapers,

because it's Holy Spirit led,
it's not man-control

and it's not a big machine. It's just
something that is growing and it's spreading.

And we have stories like that from India
and Pakistan and China

and South America, where we talk about
10.000 and 10.000 people who actually...

becoming disciples. We are, of course,
are longing for...

Where are you from?
What country?

Domenican Republic.

And you came to Europe, to Germany,
because you love...

Yeah, God sent me here.

God sent him there.

No, because of the weather I came.

And that is the thing. You came here
because you want to see the same

in Europe.
- Yes.

And I love travelling all over the world,
but I also have a heart for Europe,

to see it here. What do you see
God is doing in Europe, right now,

when we talk about disciple making
movents?

I lot. Really a lot. Disciple making
movement is not something

that is very present in the media,
very present there online,

or on the television, Christian television,
because disciple making movement

is something that happens from
grass roots and then from

people's perspective, people are coming
to faith and they see they...

One of the groups we have here
in the city,

this woman got baptized, we went into
her house, her husband was still not

coming to faith, but she is really seeing
how the Bible, every week

we are together with her husband
and we are coming,

just step by step, now he starts
praying, and now the neighbors are coming,

and this is not happening in Nürnberg.
Many cities in Germany,

and other countries, you see the families,
normal believers,

they make a decision: Okay, we don't
have a big institution,

but we have decided together,
to be the light of Jesus in our neighborhood,

in our city, and we have decided that we are
going to share the gospel,

we are going to invest time, dedicate
resources and just invest in people.

And they are finding creating way to
share the gospel.

They do it with volleyball... They do it
wherever they go.

They bring this presence of God.
They pray for people,

they share the gospel, they care
of their neighborhood,

and this is what is really impacting
families and this looks to me

like what was happening in the
New Testament,

right there, in the Book of Acts.
Normal, regular people.

Big church of Antioch, how did the
church of Antioch start?

Just Paul... kill Stephen... just was
there, clothes put on his feet.

Some people run away and they,
"regular" believers arrived in Antioch

and started the biggest sending
churches, started many churches

and then became the church, actually,
that Paul, that sent Paul out

as a missionary. So, it is starting
with regular disciples.

And when we say "the church",
that was not one main building,

with one organization. That was
people who were trained and sent out

to train and send.

Just for you, who are in the churches,
"normal" system,

many years ago, I remember, when
I got contact with people

from disciple making movements
and people who came from...

They also use names as:
"Organic Church" and "Simple Church",

I was still in the old way of thinking
about church,

and he asked me a question,
because we had a church at that time.

He said: "Torben, what will you do if you
see ten people get saved next week?"

And I: "Cool. I would love that.
Than I would do what I do.

We will continue, and so on."

"What if you see hundred people
get saved?"

"Okay. Then we can do. We just need
two, three extra meetings,

but we can do it without buildings
and what we have."

"What if you see thousand people
get saved?"

"Then we need a new building
and we need more staff

and we nee to organize different..."

"What if you see 10.000?"

"Like... We cannot organize it. It's
impossible to organize growth

of that size."
So, when we talked about India,

that five million people have get
born again,

in that network, the last ten years,
or baptized, there and there and there,

it's really something that is not
controlled and organized

the way we in the western church
often think it.

We are also talking about
multiplication.

When we are talking about
multiplication, not adding...

If you have a church and you add
100 people a year,

then it goes from 100 to 200 to 300
to 400 to 500. It's adding.

When we talk about multiplication,
we go from 4 to 8, from 8 to 16,

from 16 to 32. It doesn't sound as much
in the beginning,

but when it's suddenly 100.000
who are 200.00, who are 400.000,

800.000... Then it's crazy.

And when we talk about that,
with growth,

I don't think... Okay, if I have a church
with 100 people,

to go in and get a growth of 100%
make the church grow

from 100 to 200. That is very, very
difficult.

But, we can take every disciple,
one by one, and get them to grow

with one next year. Or take two
disciples and get them to grow

with even eight. I've seen that
again, again, again and again

that we are taking two disciples
and in one year they are 8 people.

We are talking about 300% growth
or 400%.

We are talking about a lot of growth.
And that is where the growth is.

The body is in the molecules,
it's in the cells,

it's growing all the time.
There is life.

And this is what we can see movement by.
Movement is by

everyone becoming disciples and
everyone bear a little fruit.

Can you see a little about
disciple movements?

The movement is composed by
a group of disciples

who decide to incarnate the ministry
of Jesus Christ in their environment.

Is there anything wrong about numbers,
about having 100, 600 people

in a church? No, big numbers are
not the problem,

but 600 - What? - do you have there?

600 participants, 600 people that go,
sit down and enjoy your service.

This is not what Jesus Christ is
talking about.

He says: Make disciples. And they
will authority in my name,

they will just preach the gospel
of Jesus...

What fruit are you seeing?

If you obey my commandments,
you will be my friends.

You say: The love of God,
by His love you have been regenerated

and saved, and you have confessed
your sins and now you live a new life.

Has this become a priority for your
life?

Or is it just something else that you
add to your list of things

that you have in your life?

This is, I think, the main difference.

For example, for many people,
when they talk about house fellowships

or house churches... Like... Oh.

These are just the people that were
hurt and just sad about

the Sunday morning church, and
they are just upset

and they just start a house church.

No, I am sorry. That's not house
fellowship or house church.

When you see the Book of Acts -
that are fellowships and house churches.

That's how it started.

When Jesus Christ's disciples churches
were happening around the houses.

So, when we are talking about
disciple making movement,

we are talking just to make it simple -
of disciples who are investing

their lives into making disciples.

Even if I preach at a conference
or a church,

and if that was everything I did,

I think I am not obeying Jesus
by making disciples.

If you are working in a church
and you are working in a "welcome team",

or you are working in a church and you
invest five hours in "the cafeteria team",

is that making disciples?
I don't think it is.

Do you need to do it? Yes, there are
models and ways that you do,

for investing into people, but you
are missing out the great blessing

of experiencing the Holy Spirit,
working through your life,

seeing people's lives being transformed,
taking steps of faith,

going to risk and seeing God transform
your friends,

because we are not ashamed of
the gospel.

You are, wherever you go, sharing the
gospel and living the life

and this is the thing. For me it is
a little bit difficult

when I try to explain: Okay, why do we need
to really make disciples?

Because this is what Jesus Christ
commanded us.

And this is how it looks like.
Living a daily life.

And when you are a part of disciple
making movement,

you are going to see how they are
people,

you have Paul that have been
investing in you, discipling you

and he trained you, he saw you
growing from spiritual baby,

to a spiritual teenager,
you were rebelious

and then you are getting older
and you are investing your life

in Titus and Timothy, and this is
the cycle that is continuing.

So, it is not just: I go on the street
or I go to my friends,

I'll give them a card, and ...
by them for a Christian gathering.

No, you are sharing the gospel.
You are discipling them

and this is a process. It's not
one time thing,

like Torben says: This is not a
one weekend thing.

It's a lifelong process, and sometimes
you can keep this touch

with this person for nine months,
for one and a half year,

and they are strong.
And you send them.

This characterized the church
in the New Testament.

They were trying to find their vest
asset, their vest element.

Okay, we send them. It's not about:
Let's get the best people,

they must give the people to keep
them here home.

Let's send them. Let's see the movement
starting in another place.

These are some of the characteristics
of this disciple making movement.

I will ask you a little about how you
are working.

First, I want to add two things.

The whole thing of...

Look at church as a family, where
babies come in,

and then they get milk, they grow up
and become young ones in the faith

and then they end up being fathers
where you leave home

and you get your own kids.
The same way in church.

We should never keep people for us,
for all eternity.

People should be with us for a
short time and leave us,

being sent out and then they get
their own spiritual kids.

We are all called to have kids.

It's not only pastors who are called
to get spiritual kids.

We are all called to grow up to
maturity and get kids.

And what I think we need is...

a higher focus on discipleship

and a lower control.

In many churches I was part,
there was a lot of control

and almost no discipleship.

But we have to have a higher
standard in what it takes

to follow Christ, and talk about
holiness, and that,

but we need a deeper freedom.
Freedom where is not about

the name and title.
It's about the Kingdom.

And this is what we want to do.
We want to spread,

because, remember, when days are
over and our Lord Jesus is coming back,

there is no title; then it's not going
to be about TLR or other names,

or Baptists, or what people call it.
It's only one thing.

That is people who follow Christ.

What we want to do here
this weekend

is that he's already working with
networks all over Germany

and he got a good idea, so when people
sign up for this kickstart weekend,

we actually put in, so people can sign up
if they want to continue with

house network and continue with things.
Can you say a little about

what we are doing here and what you
have been working with?

When people come and experience this
weekend and some of them

meet the Lord for the first time,
and some of them get baptized,

they have a great encounter with Jesus,
that they are not just going back home

and then just experience that they are
alone

because when you are on your own,

I mean, Christianity was meant by God
to be the living community.

And this is why He said:
"I will edify my church." Himself.

Jesus said this. So, when they go back,
we all need to have this fellowship

and this community. So, we just
said:

Okay, if you come to the kickstart,
do you want us to just then

let us send a team where we go to you
and train you how to start

a house fellowship or a house church?
Or option B, after the kickstart,

would you like us to send a team
that we can go and train your church?

And what happened, that 75 families
from around Germany said:

Yes, please, come and help me
start a house church

and 12 families wrote back saying:
Yes, please come train our church

on discipleship. Torben said before:
We are not trying to go against church.

We don't hate church. We love church.
Jesus Christ meant that

and we want to see that.

We want to be part of blessing of God,

that we see more strong disciples
being birth out of every single church.

If I look at "The Last Reformation",
what was I working last years,

there have been some people
criticizing and say:

Hey, what about this.
We need to follow up,

we need to do this and this.
And from the beginning,

I actually agreed that there
was a need for more,

but at the same time we can
only work with what we have.

If I don't have people to send,
I cannot send people,

so we need workers. But what I have
seen the last years have been:

It starts with a kickstart, and then
a kickstart weekend,

and then we tried even more,
also with apostolic teams

we are working with in Denmark,
at the "Jesus Center",

to really train people to send people out.

And what is good now with Germany
is that Julio is already here

and works with a big network.
And this is people with different names,

and it doesn't matter. And there is
already a network there,

so when we come in, we can actually
help to...

We have many people who come
this weekend just to get baptized,

to get set free from demons,
to be born again,

because they have seen videos
and they are longing for it,

and now we are getting closer
so now we have a team established,

ready to follow up on them.

My dream in the future is that
we would be able to really have teams

where is more... like... specific
experts in that way so

if you have a house fellowship
or church, or network, a place,

who say: Hey guys, I'm calling here
because we have a issue.

We have problems with some
doctrines.

Okay, we send a teacher.

Or, hey, we have a problems with...
Okay, we send a shepherd.

We send an apostle.
We send a prophet.

Hey, we are group here.
We don't see anyone born again.

Okay, we send an evangelist.
So, we actually have apostolic teams

with people who are strong in
different areas,

like Philip and the apostles.
Philip was in Samaria,

the apostles came, Book of Acts 8,
helped Philip, took over,

lay a foundation. Because of that,
Philip became free to go to the eunuch

and from the eunuch all over the place.

And that is the thing - to really come in
and work together and build something.

I think, when this is...

I am often thinking:
We want to build the Body

to the fullness of Christ.
Ephesians 4.

But what is the gift God have
given?

Some of it is the fivefold ministry
and given different gifts

to equip the saints. And I often
thought about that when...

When you read in the Bible that
you are the church,

you are the Body of Christ.
You can read it.

If I read it: You are the Body of Christ.
Than "you" can mean, for me - I.

No, he say: "you".
- Plural, yeah.

Body of Christ. Nobody is the
Body of Christ alone.

And I think, what is the next step
I see God is doing now is that

He is building people together
to really be more effective

in seeing continuous fruit.

And what I believe we can see it,
like, let's say that there is one guy,

I know that there will be many
this weekend, but let's say,

one guy come and really get
radical and set free and born again

this weekend. When he go home
to his city, he has a network of people,

he has ten friends who have seen
the change in his life.

But he has the testimony, but he
doesn't have the foundation.

He has the testimony, but he doesn't know
how to preach the gospel.

If we could send people in who could
use his network or use the testimony

he has, to preach the gospel in,
we will see houses come to faith.

And that is the goal.

And houses are coming to faith in a very
healthy way of church. We need to see

healthy churches, not churches that
are only led by one of the fivefold ministry.

We see much churches that are led
only by pastors.

And then people with apostolic gifting
have to go under the authority

of the pastor, evangelists have to go
under the authority of the pastor,

because this is not what we, actually,
see in the Bible.

We see that Paul was sending elders
to lead the church,

leadears of the church, and you have
this fivefold ministries to equip

the saints and to train the church,
so we all together.

When you see this apostolic teams
been sent and evangelists

preaching the gospel together,
we can all, like Paul said,

we are no longer slaves of the law,
or just following the law,

but we are led by the Holy Spirit,
that this control that comes...

Okay, one of this leaders is trying
to lead everybody else,

but a pastor is not an apostle
and an evangelist is not the teacher,

and then, since I'm not really you,
I need to control you,

so you can do what I wanted to do,
because the Holy Spirit would tell you

to do something different.
And we don't want that.

We want people who are not controlled,
not manipulated,

that when I am discipling one person,
I don't want them to grow

up to my height. I want them to
outgrow me.

I want them to come closer to
Jesus than I ever did.

I want to see more fruit than I
ever done.

I don't need them to know my name.

I want them to just know Jesus
and just to continue bearing fruit.

This churches can be so powerful
because a spiritual child

stays always a child when I am
an adult that is his leader

and he has always to obey me
and blindly follow me

no matter what I say.
And I don't let him think.

He has only to do what I think.
This is control.

But when we are trying to bring
this spiritual kids

into spiritual adults, we relate to them
as adults to adults,

as they gain maturity, as they
prove it and we can see that

they obey Jesus, and that they live
and they walk in holiness,

they have received the gospel,
they live in holiness,

they've repented from their sins,
and you can see how they will be

making right decisions, because
the Holy Spirit is their leader.

They depend on Him, they obey Him
and love Jesus so much

that when Jesus says: Leave the
place where you are and

go to another place, they will say:
"Yes, sir!" You are my God,

you are my Savior, but you are
also my King and my leader

and I follow You and love You.
This is really what we dream of

and we dream of not only
because it's not only our dream.

We dream of that because this
is what Jesus Christ meant.

And this is the model we see
in the church in the Book of Acts,

in the church in the New Testament,
from the beginning to the end

of the New Testament. People who
just wholeheartedly surrender

their lives 100% and they follow Jesus.
And that can be in any area

of society, to impact society from
different points of views

and just be present in every area
of society.

For you who are still in, let's say you
are part of the modern system

and church and you are longing
for all of this,

as he said in the beginning, there are
many people who have been hurt

in the church and they go out and
start a house fellowship in rebellion,

to warn everyone. And that is not
what we believe in.

We believe that is a sound, somehow,
submission, but not in a controlling way

and I want to say something there
because many years ago

when I was in the church, I met many
leaders, but I didn't have many fathers.

The difference often in the mentality
is that I had leaders

who misused or wanted to use me
to show that they were special.

They wanted me to come under them,
to lift them up and say:

Hey, Torben is part of my thing.

Where fathers, like a true father,
he wants his son to succeed

even more than he did himself.
A true father, if he has a son

and he is doing better, he will not
try to put him down and say:

"Who are you?" Because he knows
that the way he shows that he is,

actually, the good father, is by the son
becoming more better and

successful than himself. And I think
this is the thing I see God is doing

now, that He is sending people
together, who have that DNA in them

that is really to build people, not to
build a platform for themselves,

to build people and to grow people up.

And I would say that I was... I was longing
for this for many, many years

and then, many years ago, there came
a guy, Steve Hill from Canada,

he came to me and he introduced me
to the House Church Movement

and network and all that. It was first time
I met somebody who actually

didn't want to control me, but just want
to set me free.

And it just changed everything, to get
to know him and get to know people

who was outside the little box I was in,
so I say - if you grow up in a little box,

and so on, God is doing something
new, God is doing something

you are maybe not aware of because
it's not what you hear.

And Julio is one of them who is
working with it.

And also over Germany. There are
people who now meet,

during the week, in different homes
and they come together

and disciple, and new people get,
and it is, actually, happening,

and if you also want to know
what is happening near you,

then you can contact us and maybe
we can put you in contact

with people near you or maybe
you are also one who say:

Hey, I have a home. We have some
people who are gathering,

but we need a little structure.
- Training.

Yeah, training, not structure to
control, but need training.

We need people who can lay a
foundation.

We need people who can give us
some tools,

how do we meet when we come
together,

and there are many models.
He works with T4T.

There's: in, up and out,

backward, up, forward,

there are many names of how
you come together.

You can read the Bible. You can
talk about what happend

during the week. There is not one
model that is the only thing that works.

It really has to do with people who are
there, but there are many ideas

you can get inspired by and you can
have some tools.

And then you can start to use it.
And most important is that we keep

develop, growing and making
disciples.

Can you say what do you encourage
people to, when it comes to all of that

with discipling people?

My encouragement for you
would be:

If you come to the end of your life
and you want to look back,

what do you want to see?

In your walk with Jesus, in your walk
with making disciples,

in your walk with serving the Lord
and blessing the people around you.

I think that can only happen if you
start now.

There are people in every single
country that can train you,

that can help you, that can equip you,
so you may can real life

impart in your neighborhood,
in your city.

Contact us. Contact us. We want to
help. We want to get you equipped.

We don't want to go and do your work.
We want to see you grow

so you bear fruit. Because Jesus is
in you, you are abiding in Christ,

and if you are abiding in Christ,
He promises, John, chapter 15,

that you will bear fruit. And this is
what we will like to see you do.

And that you will also living a life
that is free,

that you live a life that you see
that the Holy Spirit is leading you,

to see people touched by you.

If you are in this, in that situation
in your life and say:

God, I want to really use my
life.

I know you have been using me
and I know you have been

touching my life, I want to see
this real impact,

this is maybe your time to
make a decision,

send us an e-mail, send Torben
an e-mail, send myself an e-mail,

and just say: Send us people,
let's program something,

or even better, different people
surround in your area

and say: Can we please have
a kickstart in this or those dates,

and just even before the kickstart,
we can go there, equip you,

train you, so you can build saved,
effective, reproducing homes

that can take the fruit when the
kickstart goes

and many people come to faith,
they are already ready,

even before the kickstart.

The kickstart is more than just
going out on the street.

There is more and more who,
actually, come because they want

to be born again. And the kickstart
is, actually, really for people

to connect. We were just with together
with some people here

who, actually, met each other at a
meeting like that and get married,

met each other. Life is getting changed.
And it's really about connecting

with people who have the same thing.

When you are missionaries, you don't
have to go to Africa and

stand of a platform in Zambia to be
a missionary.

You are missionary in everyday life.
You can make disciples.

If you reach just one person for Christ
this year and everyone do the same

next year, we just all need to do that
a few years and the world will change.

It's not so complicated. And I think
Satan has been very busy

saying to people: You cannot do it.
And I will say: You can.

You can and tools that have been
given to the Body to equip you

to do it are already there.
We just need to find them.

You need to connect with them.

And many people who are even Christian
groups, Christian environment,

and they don't find that any of the gifts
you have seem to be like the gifts

that are valued or more recognized
at your place and you can find then

this idea of really making disciples
around you and you'll see

that God has been putting this
in front of you and want you to use them

to multiply, to touch people around you,
to set people free,

and you didn't even know that it was
in you because you never tried.

So, what can you do?
Try.

- Try.
- Do it.

Try. But, God bless you. If you can,
we are doing the kickstart weekend.

We have a venue problem.
We have on Sunday, we have room

for how many? Few hundreds?
- Yes.

And we have double signed up.
So, that would be good.

But, what we want to do is really
to connect people.

And if you want to connect with
local people, see where there is

a kickstart near you, come and join,
because it's more than just

coming and get kickstarted.
It's really coming and connect

with people you can walk with
afterwards.

And this is what we want to do
even more.

God bless you out!

God bless you! May God use you
where ever you are!

Bye-bye!