Financial inclusion, the digital divide and other thoughts on the future of money
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0:01 - 0:05Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Ajay Banga,
thank you so much for being with us today. -
0:05 - 0:09I feel like this conversation
is especially meaningful -
0:09 - 0:13as we're wading through
this pandemic, it's late 2020, -
0:13 - 0:19and we've seen the way that inequalities
have presented themselves -
0:19 - 0:22throughout this year, through this crisis.
-
0:22 - 0:25And since you've been
at the helm of Mastercard, -
0:25 - 0:29you have championed this idea
of financial inclusion. -
0:29 - 0:31And so, could you start
by telling us a little bit -
0:31 - 0:32about financial inclusion,
-
0:32 - 0:34what is it
-
0:34 - 0:38and why do you think this is something
that can change people's lives? -
0:38 - 0:41Ajay Banga: Yes, look,
I think that the COVID-19 crisis -
0:41 - 0:44has actually made things
worse in some ways -
0:44 - 0:47and some of the advances
that were being made -
0:47 - 0:48over the prior decade
-
0:48 - 0:53on fighting poverty and fighting exclusion
-
0:53 - 0:54have probably got set back a little bit,
-
0:54 - 0:56just by the nature of the manner
-
0:56 - 1:00in which the virus has impacted
minorities and disadvantaged people -
1:00 - 1:02more than they have others,
-
1:02 - 1:04including, by the way,
minority-owned businesses, -
1:04 - 1:07a number of whom have had
disproportionate impact -
1:07 - 1:08through the crisis.
-
1:08 - 1:10But I guess if you pull back
from the crisis, -
1:10 - 1:13because financial inclusion or exclusion
-
1:13 - 1:18is an underlying social problem
that dates back to well before this. -
1:18 - 1:21The real issue,
here's the theory of the case. -
1:22 - 1:25Of seven billion people in the world,
-
1:25 - 1:31close to two billion are either
underbanked or unbanked in some way. -
1:31 - 1:33And what I mean
by underbanked or unbanked -- -
1:33 - 1:34unbanked is obvious,
-
1:34 - 1:38they don't have a relationship
with a banking institution of any type. -
1:38 - 1:39Of any type.
-
1:40 - 1:41Now, underbanked is, even if they do,
-
1:42 - 1:46they're not getting to participate
in the financial mainstream -
1:46 - 1:48and do things that you and I
take for granted, -
1:48 - 1:52which means being able to access credit
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1:52 - 1:54when you need it, at a reasonable price,
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1:54 - 1:57being able to access insurance
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1:57 - 1:59of the type that's relevant to you,
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1:59 - 2:01being able to do things of that nature,
-
2:01 - 2:04save for a rainy day in the right way.
-
2:04 - 2:07All that done in a form
that's good for you as the consumer. -
2:07 - 2:08That's underbanked.
-
2:08 - 2:11And so, a couple of billion
people around the world, -
2:11 - 2:13this is World Bank statistics,
-
2:13 - 2:15are basically unbanked or underbanked,
-
2:15 - 2:17and most of those people
-
2:17 - 2:21do not have a formal identity
-
2:21 - 2:24that they had received
or got from their government -
2:24 - 2:28and therefore, there's nothing
they can take and hold out -
2:28 - 2:30to show when they go to hire a car
-
2:30 - 2:32or live in a hotel
-
2:32 - 2:33or take a flight, which they don't do,
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2:34 - 2:36to show that they exist in the system.
-
2:36 - 2:38Their opinions don't count,
-
2:38 - 2:40they don't get counted
in censuses very often, -
2:40 - 2:44they don't get counted for their opinion
of what government should be doing, -
2:44 - 2:47they get left out, they're locked out.
-
2:47 - 2:49And the last part of that puzzle
-
2:49 - 2:52is that this is too big an issue,
-
2:52 - 2:53over the years,
-
2:53 - 2:55for just a government to solve,
-
2:55 - 2:58or for just one bank
to solve in a country. -
2:58 - 3:02It does require, kind of,
a bunch of shoulders at the wheel -
3:02 - 3:03to come together,
-
3:03 - 3:07it requires partnerships across
the public and the private sector, -
3:07 - 3:08but even within the private sector,
-
3:08 - 3:12to get to make a real
movement on this issue. -
3:14 - 3:16WPR: So if I'm understanding correctly,
-
3:16 - 3:19it sounds like it's just an opportunity
for people no matter where you are, -
3:19 - 3:23what your socioeconomic status is,
-
3:23 - 3:25that you have access
to financial services, -
3:25 - 3:29that you are part of the system
and you have a place, -
3:29 - 3:31a financial identity.
-
3:31 - 3:33AB: You have identity, you have a voice,
-
3:33 - 3:35you have access to financial services.
-
3:35 - 3:37So financial inclusion
has got so many facets, -
3:37 - 3:42but the basic facet is
be counted, be included, -
3:42 - 3:44be somebody, have the dignity
of your identity, -
3:44 - 3:46and of being included.
-
3:46 - 3:48That's really what financial inclusion is.
-
3:48 - 3:51WPR: It seems like such a simple idea,
-
3:51 - 3:53that can potentially have a big impact,
-
3:53 - 3:56and I know that this is something
that you've implemented -
3:56 - 3:58in your work at Mastercard,
-
3:58 - 4:01but also we see this
in many other organizations, -
4:01 - 4:06so talk a little bit about what does
financial inclusion look like in practice -
4:06 - 4:08for a range of different organizations
-
4:08 - 4:10and a range of different spaces.
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4:10 - 4:11AB: First of all,
-
4:11 - 4:14you're absolutely correct,
there are lots of people participating -
4:14 - 4:16in trying to change this.
-
4:16 - 4:19And honestly, without that,
we wouldn't get anywhere. -
4:19 - 4:20We're doing our bit,
-
4:20 - 4:23but what we're doing
is really in partnership with others, -
4:23 - 4:25because we're not
a direct-to-consumer company. -
4:25 - 4:29There's nothing I can do
to improve your life directly -
4:29 - 4:30in terms of being included
-
4:30 - 4:33because I don't open bank accounts,
-
4:33 - 4:34I don't give credit,
-
4:34 - 4:37I don't underwrite insurance
-
4:37 - 4:40and I don't have a way
to provide you ways to save money -
4:40 - 4:41in a mutual fund or anything.
-
4:41 - 4:43For me to do anything,
-
4:43 - 4:44I need to have banks,
-
4:44 - 4:46I need to have fintechs,
-
4:46 - 4:48I need to have mobile phone companies,
-
4:48 - 4:49I need to have governments,
-
4:49 - 4:51I probably need to have merchants
-
4:51 - 4:56and that ecosystem
of the coalition of the willing -
4:56 - 4:58is kind of what you will see represented
-
4:58 - 5:01when different companies
talk about their role -
5:01 - 5:02in financial inclusion.
-
5:02 - 5:05Let me give you
a couple of tangible examples. -
5:05 - 5:06So if you're a farmer
-
5:06 - 5:10and you've got to go to sell
your produce when it's harvested, -
5:10 - 5:14you've got to go two days' way
to the nearest village market, -
5:14 - 5:17well then, everybody knows
that on the way back you're carrying cash -
5:17 - 5:18from the produce you sold.
-
5:18 - 5:21That normally leads to bad outcomes.
-
5:21 - 5:23Also, you've got to go buy fertilizer.
-
5:23 - 5:25Or you've got to go
back and forth to do all this -
5:25 - 5:27and you're really unproductive,
-
5:27 - 5:29or you send your spouse to do it.
-
5:29 - 5:32All that changes if I can connect you
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5:32 - 5:33with a phone
-
5:33 - 5:36into farmers, fertilizers
and cooperatives, -
5:36 - 5:38give you cropping information,
-
5:38 - 5:39rainfall information,
-
5:40 - 5:43enable you to sell your produce
in a better marketplace, online, -
5:43 - 5:46receive the money into an account online,
-
5:46 - 5:49that is a complete game changer.
-
5:49 - 5:52Something again
that farmer's cooperatives, -
5:52 - 5:53local governments,
-
5:53 - 5:56banks and companies like ours
can help facilitate, -
5:56 - 5:59in Africa, we're doing it in India,
-
5:59 - 6:01we're doing it in a bunch
of countries around the world. -
6:01 - 6:04Again, the idea here
is to take you out of the cash economy -
6:04 - 6:07and give you access
to an electronic economy. -
6:07 - 6:09Imagine that same farmer,
-
6:09 - 6:12they now receive money for their produce,
-
6:12 - 6:16a bank can look at how they spend money
out of their account, -
6:16 - 6:20and could, using the spending
and receiving of money, -
6:20 - 6:23underwrite you much better for a crop loan
-
6:23 - 6:26than they could if they
didn't know anything about you. -
6:27 - 6:29So the same example, another one,
-
6:29 - 6:32is for small and microbusinesses.
-
6:32 - 6:37Take a woman in Kenya
or in India or in Mexico in a village -
6:37 - 6:40who opens a small shop outside her home
-
6:40 - 6:43when her husband and children are away.
-
6:43 - 6:44And it runs for a few hours in a day,
-
6:44 - 6:48and she stocks a little baby food,
and soap and toilet paper -
6:48 - 6:50and whatever else people buy there.
-
6:50 - 6:52Well when the company van comes,
-
6:52 - 6:56the Nestle van, the Unilever van,
the local Bimbo Bread van, -
6:56 - 6:58comes to sell produce to her
-
6:58 - 7:01on a Monday or a Tuesday
or a Wednesday at a certain time, -
7:01 - 7:03she buys what she can in cash.
-
7:03 - 7:06Typically, she's in the cash economy,
nobody’s given her credit, -
7:06 - 7:10she runs out of cash
for that produce that she's buying -
7:10 - 7:11before the week is over.
-
7:11 - 7:14She's out of stock. She loses sales.
-
7:14 - 7:16Imagine if she could then be underwritten,
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7:16 - 7:18digitizing that supply chain,
-
7:18 - 7:20what she bought, what she sold,
-
7:20 - 7:21underwrite her in a bank
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7:21 - 7:23with actual transaction history,
-
7:23 - 7:25you could lend her the 500 dollars
-
7:25 - 7:28to enable her to be smarter
about what she buys, -
7:28 - 7:30educate her on how to use her credit,
-
7:30 - 7:32that's financial inclusion.
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7:32 - 7:34WPR: And so one thing
that's really struck me -
7:34 - 7:37as you're talking through
what financial inclusion looks like -
7:37 - 7:38and how it works,
-
7:38 - 7:40is the dependency on technology,
-
7:40 - 7:42on smartphones, on internet access,
-
7:42 - 7:44and we know that this is something
-
7:44 - 7:47that a lot of people
struggle to have access to this -
7:47 - 7:49in developing nations,
even in developed countries. -
7:49 - 7:55Talk a little bit about how this might
in some ways increase the digital divide, -
7:55 - 7:58and sort of, how you respond
to people who might criticize -
7:58 - 8:00this idea in that way.
-
8:00 - 8:02AB: There are two topics
you just came across, -
8:02 - 8:05the digital divide,
which I think is a real issue. -
8:05 - 8:07But just to be clear,
all the examples I gave you, -
8:07 - 8:11they work on smartphones
and they work on old flip phones as well. -
8:11 - 8:14That QR code, if you have
a camera on your smartphone, -
8:14 - 8:15you can take it,
-
8:15 - 8:17but there's a numerical number there,
-
8:17 - 8:20you could enter that number
into your finger phone -
8:20 - 8:22and get it across as well.
-
8:22 - 8:24Examples like that in Egypt,
-
8:24 - 8:26where we've opened
mobile wallets on phones, -
8:26 - 8:28they don't have to be on a smartphone,
-
8:28 - 8:29it could be on an old phone.
-
8:29 - 8:33So to be clear, these financial
inclusion examples -
8:33 - 8:35do not depend on smartphones,
-
8:35 - 8:40they do not depend on just
internet access in your house, -
8:40 - 8:42you do need a phone, a cell phone,
-
8:42 - 8:44in a number of the examples I gave you.
-
8:44 - 8:48But in the case of the micro
and small credit enterprises, -
8:48 - 8:50you don't even need a phone.
-
8:50 - 8:52That actually is just
the transaction history -
8:52 - 8:56of the produce you bought
and what you sold getting digitized -
8:56 - 8:57and a bank being able to underwrite.
-
8:57 - 9:00There are other problems
of infrastructure in those -
9:00 - 9:02that we can talk about.
-
9:02 - 9:04But to be specific
about the digital divide, -
9:04 - 9:06I think that's another real big issue
-
9:06 - 9:09and again, COVID-19
has actually, unfortunately, -
9:09 - 9:14exposed what was already
sort of an issue in society. -
9:14 - 9:17So whether it's rural parts of America,
-
9:17 - 9:24let alone an African or Indian
or Indonesian or Guatemalan example, -
9:24 - 9:26in America, in rural parts of America,
-
9:26 - 9:28broadband access is a problem.
-
9:28 - 9:30Disadvantaged children in New York City,
-
9:30 - 9:34who may not have access
to the same bandwidth capacity -
9:34 - 9:38or computers that they need
to be able to participate in education, -
9:38 - 9:39that's a problem.
-
9:39 - 9:42And so, that's a separate issue, Whitney,
-
9:42 - 9:45from the issue of some
of the examples I gave you, -
9:45 - 9:48which I think can actually
be operated equally well -
9:48 - 9:50with old-fashioned phones.
-
9:50 - 9:53WPR: It seems like a precursor to this
-
9:53 - 9:56is in talking about these partnerships
with governments, perhaps, -
9:56 - 9:59is making sure people do have
even access to a flip phone -
9:59 - 10:02or some sort of way
that they can communicate -
10:02 - 10:05so they can participate
in these initiatives. -
10:05 - 10:07AB: So I think a phone is transformational
-
10:07 - 10:11and the fact is that there are many
people in the world with a phone, -
10:12 - 10:13but there's still a billion people
-
10:13 - 10:16who do not have the right kind
of phone or internet access. -
10:16 - 10:17That's a different topic.
-
10:17 - 10:20So that said, you've got to find ways
to reach them too. -
10:20 - 10:22You can't only do it by phone.
-
10:22 - 10:25So the example of those micro SMEs
I was talking about, -
10:25 - 10:27they've got nothing to do with a phone.
-
10:27 - 10:29Or for example, in South Africa,
-
10:29 - 10:32with the social security administration
-
10:32 - 10:35where the government gives them
a certain amount of money every year -
10:35 - 10:38for their being not employed,
-
10:38 - 10:41you can actually reach them
through a biometric card, -
10:41 - 10:42which is what we've done,
-
10:42 - 10:45with the government,
the government collects your identity, -
10:45 - 10:46your biometrics on a card,
-
10:46 - 10:48and we can load the card remotely
-
10:48 - 10:50with the amount they want to transfer,
-
10:50 - 10:53take out the middleman in the process,
-
10:53 - 10:54and allow that person
-
10:54 - 10:57to then use that card to go to an ATM
to take out their cash, -
10:57 - 11:00or go straight to a shop to shop.
-
11:00 - 11:01And I think that changes everything.
-
11:01 - 11:03So we've done that in many countries.
-
11:03 - 11:07And so if you go to where Syrian refugees
were coming in to Lebanon -
11:07 - 11:09and Greece and the like,
-
11:09 - 11:11every aid agency there
-
11:11 - 11:14would require them
to have an identity with them -
11:14 - 11:17to get access to whatever form of aid
they were dispersing. -
11:18 - 11:21One of the things we're doing
is to convert that -
11:21 - 11:24into a very simple
biometric-enabled identity -
11:24 - 11:27which will be read across aid agencies,
-
11:27 - 11:31so you or I don't need to get
our identity verified -
11:31 - 11:32separately each time.
-
11:32 - 11:36There is a statistic in the world
that 40 percent of the dollars -
11:36 - 11:39that governments want to spend
to reach their citizenry -
11:39 - 11:41for social benefit programs
-
11:41 - 11:42never reach them.
-
11:42 - 11:43They are called leakage.
-
11:43 - 11:46Leakage means administrative costs
-
11:46 - 11:48and I call it theft.
-
11:48 - 11:50Because it's 40 less cents on a dollar
-
11:50 - 11:53for the person who cannot afford
even one cent less. -
11:53 - 11:54That's the issue.
-
11:54 - 11:56That's what we're trying to solve for.
-
11:56 - 11:58Take out middlemen,
use technology to help, -
11:58 - 12:01enable a direct government
to citizenry operation, -
12:01 - 12:05allow banks and NGOs and foreign companies
-
12:05 - 12:06to intervene in the right way,
-
12:06 - 12:09as in the example of this refugee crisis.
-
12:09 - 12:12The World Food Programme distributes food
-
12:12 - 12:15in those very refugee camps.
-
12:15 - 12:17And we actually help them
to take the food, -
12:17 - 12:19they would buy grain somewhere
and ship it across, -
12:19 - 12:21and lose some of it along the way,
-
12:21 - 12:23we put the dollar value on a card,
-
12:23 - 12:25the card can only be used by the refugee
-
12:25 - 12:28in a shop that the World
Food Programme certifies. -
12:28 - 12:29So it cannot be used for anything
-
12:29 - 12:32other than what the World
Food Programme wants it used for, -
12:32 - 12:36which is grain and food
and vegetables and fruit and milk. -
12:36 - 12:39And that enables the World Food Programme
to save money on leakage. -
12:39 - 12:42What I'm trying to tell you
is it's not about technology, -
12:42 - 12:45it's about using what you have
and using the technology you do possess -
12:45 - 12:49and applying that in a smart,
commercially sustainable way -
12:49 - 12:50to real world problems.
-
12:50 - 12:52If you have good technology as well,
-
12:52 - 12:54well let's do it even better.
-
12:54 - 12:57But let's not use technology
as the excuse to not do it. -
12:58 - 13:00WPR: OK. It makes a lot of sense now.
-
13:00 - 13:03It seems like underlying all of this
-
13:03 - 13:08is this move towards a cashless society.
-
13:08 - 13:13This move to sort of create
this way for people to exchange money -
13:13 - 13:15without the need for cash.
-
13:15 - 13:18I'm curious to hear from you a little bit
-
13:18 - 13:20about what does that actually look like,
-
13:20 - 13:22you know, a society without cash.
-
13:22 - 13:24What are some of the challenges
that is presents? -
13:24 - 13:29AB: Yeah, I think cashless, actually,
is something we are not going to get to, -
13:29 - 13:31and we probably shouldn't.
-
13:31 - 13:33Because just as we have a digital divide,
-
13:33 - 13:36do you really want a world
where people who rely on cash -
13:36 - 13:37because it makes them comfortable,
-
13:37 - 13:40I'm not talking
about illegal transactions, -
13:40 - 13:43I'm talking about somebody
who just wants to deal in cash, -
13:43 - 13:46they may be older and uncomfortable
with today's technology. -
13:46 - 13:48My dad, when he was alive,
-
13:48 - 13:52you know, he never wanted to use a card.
-
13:52 - 13:54He always wanted to use a cash and check.
-
13:54 - 13:57And this is my father,
when I worked in banking -
13:57 - 13:59and was by then the CEO of Mastercard,
-
13:59 - 14:01and he would look at me
very indulgently and say, -
14:01 - 14:04"Son, now I have a Mastercard
because of you, -
14:04 - 14:06but could you please go away"
kind of thing. -
14:06 - 14:07And I understand that.
-
14:07 - 14:11And I think you've got to deal
with therefore "cashless," -
14:11 - 14:12in inverted commas.
-
14:12 - 14:15Reducing cash in the economy
-
14:15 - 14:17is to me a good objective.
-
14:17 - 14:18Taking it to zero?
-
14:18 - 14:20I'm not there.
-
14:20 - 14:23Why do I say it's a good
objective to reduce it? -
14:23 - 14:27Because cash actually is the friend
-
14:27 - 14:31of the person who has something to hide.
-
14:31 - 14:34If you want to not pay your full taxes,
-
14:34 - 14:36or you want to do something with the cash
-
14:36 - 14:37which is not quite kosher,
-
14:37 - 14:40well guess what, here's your chance.
-
14:41 - 14:43But if you're electronic,
you are transparent. -
14:43 - 14:45Electronic forms of money
-
14:45 - 14:47benefits and transfers in utilization,
-
14:47 - 14:49create transparency in an economy.
-
14:50 - 14:52Poorer people,
-
14:52 - 14:55they don't have access to cash,
-
14:55 - 14:57and therefore, they don't
indulge any of this. -
14:57 - 15:00But even other than that,
even other than all this, -
15:00 - 15:02there is a cost of cash in society
-
15:02 - 15:05which many people have computed,
central banks, universities, -
15:05 - 15:08somewhere between one to two
percent of GDP -
15:08 - 15:10is the cost of printing, securing,
-
15:10 - 15:12distributing and using that cash.
-
15:12 - 15:14One to two percent of GDP.
-
15:14 - 15:17I'm certain there are efficient
uses of that GDP -
15:17 - 15:19that we could put into play
-
15:19 - 15:22by reducing the role of cash
relatively in the economy. -
15:22 - 15:24In the process,
you take out these middlemen -
15:24 - 15:26who are in positions of power
-
15:26 - 15:28when social benefits are distributed,
-
15:28 - 15:29when refugees are met.
-
15:29 - 15:30That's what I'm talking about.
-
15:30 - 15:32That to me is a good thing.
-
15:32 - 15:34Transparent, better tax realizations,
-
15:34 - 15:36lower money laundering,
-
15:36 - 15:38that kind of stuff I'm all for,
-
15:38 - 15:40and I've been talking
about that for years. -
15:40 - 15:42But zero cash, I'm not there.
-
15:43 - 15:46WPR: And do you think there is a point
where you do get there, -
15:46 - 15:48or we get there as a society,
-
15:48 - 15:50where that does feel possible?
-
15:50 - 15:51AB: We could.
-
15:51 - 15:54I mean, if you took countries
in the Nordics, take Sweden. -
15:54 - 15:56Sweden, South Korea,
-
15:56 - 15:59these are at the cutting edge
of having reduced cash in their economies. -
15:59 - 16:04In Sweden, essentially everybody uses
electronic forms of payments, -
16:04 - 16:08either a card or app on their phone
that they can swish through -
16:08 - 16:10or things of that nature,
-
16:10 - 16:12consumer payments I'm talking about.
-
16:12 - 16:14Even public toilets
on the street in Sweden -
16:14 - 16:18you can pay by on your phone
entering a code, -
16:18 - 16:20which comes back to you,
-
16:20 - 16:22having deducted that money
from your account. -
16:22 - 16:23You enter the code on a pin pad
-
16:23 - 16:25and I call that tap and go,
-
16:25 - 16:27you go into the public toilet
with that tap. -
16:27 - 16:30That's how far it's advanced in Sweden.
-
16:30 - 16:32So cash is very low there.
-
16:32 - 16:36But even they are having a regular,
continuous public conversation -
16:36 - 16:40about not disadvantaging
those parts of Sweden -
16:40 - 16:41who still want to deal in cash.
-
16:41 - 16:43You've got to be careful,
-
16:43 - 16:47because remember how does cash reach
distributed points in a country? -
16:47 - 16:48Through banks, through ATMs.
-
16:48 - 16:51If those become unprofitable to run
-
16:51 - 16:53and people start closing the ATMs down,
-
16:53 - 16:54that's a problem in itself.
-
16:54 - 16:58So you have to enable
cash back in retailers in some way, -
16:58 - 17:01so that you could still go and get cash
from a distribution system. -
17:01 - 17:03Maybe not an ATM, but a retailer.
-
17:03 - 17:05There are some ways to do this well,
-
17:05 - 17:07but you've got to be conscious of it.
-
17:07 - 17:09You know, we haven't reached it yet,
-
17:09 - 17:10but we could.
-
17:10 - 17:12We haven't reached it yet.
-
17:12 - 17:14WPR: Of course, when you think about this,
-
17:14 - 17:17about moving to a cashless society
-
17:17 - 17:19or at least having that as the goal,
-
17:19 - 17:24that creates this concern
around data and privacy -
17:24 - 17:25and you've said in the past
-
17:25 - 17:29that there's really an importance
behind putting consumers in control -
17:29 - 17:32of their own data and their own privacy.
-
17:32 - 17:35How is that something
that we can actually achieve, -
17:35 - 17:38what does it look like to do that?
-
17:38 - 17:40AB: Whitney, it's a terrific question.
-
17:40 - 17:42I actually believe that it's at the core
-
17:42 - 17:46of a lot to do with the next
10, 20 years of technology, -
17:46 - 17:49the internet of things, 5G, data,
-
17:49 - 17:52this is all coming together
at warp speed, right? -
17:52 - 17:55If you think about the number of devices
that are going to be connected -
17:55 - 17:58over the next five, ten years,
and what 5G could do -
17:58 - 18:02to moving intelligent computing
to the edge right near you, -
18:02 - 18:04this is going to generate
enormous amounts of data. -
18:04 - 18:06From your fridge, from your car,
-
18:06 - 18:08from you walking around,
from your connected glasses, -
18:08 - 18:10from your watch already, all that.
-
18:10 - 18:12From your shoes if you're a runner.
-
18:12 - 18:17So you've got to get to a stage
where we take a responsibility -
18:17 - 18:20of how your data is used and interpreted.
-
18:20 - 18:22And so, Mastercard,
-
18:22 - 18:23we with a bunch of companies,
-
18:23 - 18:27we have laid out a set of data principles.
-
18:27 - 18:29The first one is exactly what you said.
-
18:29 - 18:31It's your data, you should control it.
-
18:31 - 18:34Meaning you should know
what's being collected, -
18:34 - 18:37you should be able to say,
"I don't want that to be collected," -
18:37 - 18:39in simple language,
-
18:39 - 18:43not in a 12-page legal agreement
that you cannot comprehend. -
18:43 - 18:48And you should be able to benefit
from that data of yours that is used, -
18:48 - 18:52either directly, or indirectly
in some way that you comprehend. -
18:52 - 18:55And if I as a company
am collecting your data -
18:55 - 18:57to enable me to do business with you,
-
18:57 - 19:00I should collect the minimum amount I need
-
19:00 - 19:02to do my job with you
-
19:02 - 19:05and I should keep
whatever I collect safe for you, -
19:05 - 19:08and allow it to be deducted
or removed when you want it. -
19:08 - 19:10These are not complicated things.
-
19:10 - 19:12Your data, you're in control,
-
19:12 - 19:14you should be able
to delete it when you want, -
19:14 - 19:16you should know what's being collected.
-
19:16 - 19:19If I do anything with you,
collect the minimum, keep it safe. -
19:19 - 19:21Consumers will vote
with their feet on this topic. -
19:21 - 19:23As they get more knowledgeable,
-
19:23 - 19:24as they get more educated,
-
19:24 - 19:26and that's the right thing to do,
-
19:26 - 19:30they need to say, "I don't want you
to use my data for the following things. -
19:30 - 19:32I want to know what it's being used for."
-
19:32 - 19:34Putting consumer back
in control of their data -
19:34 - 19:38is going to be mission critical
in the data-driven economy -
19:38 - 19:39of the next 10, 20 years.
-
19:39 - 19:42WPR: Thank you so much, Ajay,
this was a great conversation -
19:42 - 19:44and we appreciate you being with us today.
-
19:44 - 19:46AB: Thanks a lot, see you again.
-
19:46 - 19:47Good luck.
- Title:
- Financial inclusion, the digital divide and other thoughts on the future of money
- Speaker:
- Ajay Banga, Whitney Pennington Rodgers
- Description:
-
Roughly two billion people worldwide don't have access to banks or financial services like credit, insurance and investment -- or even a way to formally prove their identity. How do we bridge this divide? Mastercard CEO Ajay Banga sits down with TED current affairs curator Whitney Pennington Rodgers to discuss how innovative public-private partnerships can help bring everyone into the digital economy -- and why COVID-19 recovery hinges on financial inclusion.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 20:00