Lessons from death row inmates | David R. Dow | TEDxAustin
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0:12 - 0:14Two weeks ago,
-
0:14 - 0:19I was sitting at the kitchen table
with my wife Katya, -
0:19 - 0:23and we were talking about
what I was going to talk about today. -
0:24 - 0:27We have an 11-year-old son;
his name is Lincoln. -
0:27 - 0:30He was sitting at the same table,
doing his math homework. -
0:32 - 0:35And during a pause
in my conversation with Katya, -
0:35 - 0:37I looked over at Lincoln
-
0:37 - 0:40and I was suddenly thunderstruck
-
0:41 - 0:44by a recollection of a client of mine.
-
0:45 - 0:48My client was a guy named Will.
-
0:48 - 0:51He was from North Texas.
-
0:52 - 0:54He never knew his father very well,
-
0:54 - 0:59because his father left his mom
while she was pregnant with him. -
1:00 - 1:04And so, he was destined
to be raised by a single mom, -
1:04 - 1:05which might have been all right
-
1:06 - 1:10except that this particular single mom
was a paranoid schizophrenic, -
1:11 - 1:14and when Will was five years old,
-
1:14 - 1:16she tried to kill him
with a butcher knife. -
1:18 - 1:23She was taken away by authorities
and placed in a psychiatric hospital, -
1:23 - 1:26and so for the next several years
Will lived with his older brother, -
1:26 - 1:29until he committed suicide
by shooting himself through the heart. -
1:30 - 1:35And after that Will bounced around
from one family member to another, -
1:35 - 1:39until, by the time he was nine years old,
he was essentially living on his own. -
1:40 - 1:43That morning that I was sitting
with Katya and Lincoln, -
1:43 - 1:50I looked at my son, and I realized
that when my client, Will, was his age, -
1:51 - 1:53he'd been living by himself for two years.
-
1:55 - 1:57Will eventually joined a gang
-
1:57 - 2:01and committed a number
of very serious crimes, -
2:02 - 2:04including, most seriously of all,
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2:05 - 2:07a horrible, tragic murder.
-
2:09 - 2:14And Will was ultimately executed
as punishment for that crime. -
2:16 - 2:22But I don't want to talk today
about the morality of capital punishment. -
2:22 - 2:26I certainly think that my client
shouldn't have been executed, -
2:26 - 2:29but what I would like to do today instead
-
2:29 - 2:34is talk about the death penalty
in a way I've never done before, -
2:35 - 2:38I would like to talk
about the death penalty -
2:38 - 2:42in a way that is
entirely noncontroversial. -
2:44 - 2:45I think that's possible,
-
2:45 - 2:50because there is a corner
of the death penalty debate -- -
2:51 - 2:53maybe the most important corner --
-
2:53 - 2:56where everybody agrees,
-
2:56 - 3:00where the most ardent
death penalty supporters -
3:00 - 3:05and the most vociferous abolitionists
are on exactly the same page. -
3:07 - 3:09That's the corner I want to explore.
-
3:10 - 3:13Before I do that, though,
I want to spend a couple of minutes -
3:13 - 3:17telling you how
a death penalty case unfolds, -
3:17 - 3:19and then I want to tell you two lessons
-
3:19 - 3:24that I have learned over the last 20 years
as a death penalty lawyer -
3:24 - 3:28from watching well more
than a hundred cases unfold in this way. -
3:31 - 3:35You can think of a death penalty case
as a story that has four chapters. -
3:36 - 3:41The first chapter of every case
is exactly the same, and it is tragic. -
3:42 - 3:46It begins with the murder
of an innocent human being, -
3:47 - 3:48and it's followed by a trial
-
3:49 - 3:52where the murderer
is convicted and sent to death row, -
3:52 - 3:55and that death sentence is ultimately
upheld by the state appellate court. -
3:57 - 3:59The second chapter consists
of a complicated legal proceeding -
3:59 - 4:02known as a state habeas corpus appeal.
-
4:03 - 4:06The third chapter is an even
more complicated legal proceeding -
4:06 - 4:09known as a federal
habeas corpus proceeding. -
4:09 - 4:13And the fourth chapter is one
where a variety of things can happen. -
4:14 - 4:16The lawyers might file
a clemency petition, -
4:16 - 4:19they might initiate
even more complex litigation, -
4:19 - 4:21or they might not do anything at all.
-
4:21 - 4:25But that fourth chapter
always ends with an execution. -
4:27 - 4:31When I started representing
death row inmates more than 20 years ago, -
4:32 - 4:34people on death row
did not have a right to a lawyer -
4:34 - 4:38in either the second
or the fourth chapter of this story. -
4:38 - 4:40They were on their own.
-
4:40 - 4:42In fact, it wasn't until the late 1980s
-
4:42 - 4:46that they acquired a right to a lawyer
during the third chapter of the story. -
4:47 - 4:52So what all of these death row inmates
had to do was rely on volunteer lawyers -
4:52 - 4:54to handle their legal proceedings.
-
4:55 - 4:58The problem is that there were
way more guys on death row -
4:58 - 5:00than there were lawyers
-
5:00 - 5:03who had both the interest
and the expertise to work on these cases. -
5:03 - 5:05And so inevitably,
-
5:05 - 5:09lawyers drifted to cases
that were already in chapter four -- -
5:09 - 5:10that makes sense, of course.
-
5:10 - 5:12Those are the cases that are most urgent;
-
5:12 - 5:15those are the guys
who are closest to being executed. -
5:15 - 5:17Some of these lawyers were successful;
-
5:17 - 5:19they managed to get
new trials for their clients. -
5:19 - 5:23Others of them managed
to extend the lives of their clients, -
5:23 - 5:26sometimes by years, sometimes by months.
-
5:26 - 5:28But the one thing that didn't happen
-
5:28 - 5:32was that there was never
a serious and sustained decline -
5:32 - 5:35in the number of annual
executions in Texas. -
5:35 - 5:37In fact, as you can see from this graph,
-
5:37 - 5:41from the time that the Texas
execution apparatus got efficient -
5:41 - 5:43in the mid- to late 1990s,
-
5:43 - 5:44there have only been a couple of years
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5:44 - 5:48where the number of annual
executions dipped below 20. -
5:49 - 5:51In a typical year in Texas,
-
5:51 - 5:55we're averaging about two people a month.
-
5:55 - 5:59In some years in Texas,
we've executed close to 40 people, -
5:59 - 6:00on an annual basis,
-
6:00 - 6:05and this number has never significantly
declined over the last 15 years. -
6:05 - 6:08And yet, at the same time
that we continue to execute -
6:09 - 6:11about the same number
of people every year, -
6:11 - 6:15the number of people who we're
sentencing to death on an annual basis -
6:15 - 6:17has dropped rather steeply.
-
6:17 - 6:19So we have this paradox,
-
6:19 - 6:23which is that the number
of annual executions has remained high -
6:23 - 6:27but the number of new
death sentences has gone down. -
6:28 - 6:29Why is that?
-
6:29 - 6:32It can't be attributed
to a decline in the murder rate, -
6:32 - 6:35because the murder
rate has not declined nearly so steeply -
6:36 - 6:38as the red line
on that graph has gone down. -
6:39 - 6:41What has happened instead
-
6:41 - 6:46is that juries have started to sentence
more and more people to prison -
6:46 - 6:49for the rest of their lives
without the possibility of parole, -
6:49 - 6:52rather than sending them
to the execution chamber. -
6:53 - 6:55Why has that happened?
-
6:55 - 6:58It hasn't happened
because of a dissolution -
6:58 - 7:00of popular support for the death penalty.
-
7:00 - 7:03Death penalty opponents
take great solace in the fact -
7:03 - 7:08that death penalty support in Texas
is at an all-time low. -
7:08 - 7:10Do you know what all-time low
in Texas means? -
7:10 - 7:12It means that it's in the low 60 percent.
-
7:12 - 7:15Now, that's really good
compared to the mid-1980s, -
7:15 - 7:18when it was in excess of 80 percent,
-
7:18 - 7:20but we can't explain
the decline in death sentences -
7:20 - 7:24and the affinity for life
without the possibility of parole -
7:24 - 7:26by an erosion of support
for the death penalty, -
7:26 - 7:28because people still support
the death penalty. -
7:28 - 7:30What's happened to cause this phenomenon?
-
7:32 - 7:36What's happened is that lawyers
who represent death row inmates -
7:36 - 7:40have shifted their focus
to earlier and earlier chapters -
7:40 - 7:41of the death penalty story.
-
7:42 - 7:45So 25 years ago,
they focused on chapter four. -
7:45 - 7:48And they went from
chapter four 25 years ago -
7:48 - 7:51to chapter three in the late 1980s.
-
7:51 - 7:53And they went from chapter three
in the late 1980s -
7:53 - 7:56to chapter two in the mid-1990s.
-
7:56 - 7:58And beginning in the mid- to late 1990s,
-
7:58 - 8:01they began to focus
on chapter one of the story. -
8:01 - 8:04Now, you might think
that this decline in death sentences -
8:04 - 8:06and the increase
in the number of life sentences -
8:06 - 8:07is a good thing or a bad thing.
-
8:07 - 8:10I don't want to have a conversation
about that today. -
8:10 - 8:13All that I want to tell you
is that the reason that this has happened -
8:13 - 8:16is because death penalty lawyers
have understood -
8:16 - 8:19that the earlier you intervene in a case,
-
8:19 - 8:22the greater the likelihood that
you're going to save your client's life. -
8:23 - 8:25That's the first thing I've learned.
-
8:27 - 8:30Here's the second thing I learned:
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8:30 - 8:33My client Will was
not the exception to the rule; -
8:34 - 8:36he was the rule.
-
8:38 - 8:41I sometimes say, if you tell me
the name of a death row inmate -- -
8:41 - 8:43doesn't matter what state he's in,
-
8:43 - 8:45doesn't matter
if I've ever met him before -- -
8:45 - 8:47I'll write his biography for you.
-
8:47 - 8:50And eight out of 10 times,
-
8:50 - 8:54the details of that biography
will be more or less accurate. -
8:54 - 8:58And the reason for that is that 80 percent
of the people on death row -
8:58 - 9:02are people who came from the same sort
of dysfunctional family that Will did. -
9:02 - 9:05Eighty percent of the people on death row
-
9:05 - 9:08are people who had exposure
to the juvenile justice system. -
9:09 - 9:12That's the second lesson
that I've learned. -
9:13 - 9:17Now we're right on the cusp of that corner
-
9:17 - 9:18where everybody's going to agree.
-
9:20 - 9:21People in this room might disagree
-
9:21 - 9:24about whether Will
should have been executed, -
9:24 - 9:26but I think everybody would agree
-
9:26 - 9:30that the best possible
version of his story -
9:30 - 9:34would be a story
where no murder ever occurs. -
9:36 - 9:37How do we do that?
-
9:38 - 9:43When our son Lincoln was working
on that math problem two weeks ago, -
9:43 - 9:46it was a big, gnarly problem.
-
9:46 - 9:49And he was learning how,
when you have a big old gnarly problem, -
9:49 - 9:53sometimes the solution
is to slice it into smaller problems. -
9:53 - 9:55That's what we do for most problems --
-
9:55 - 9:57in math, in physics,
even in social policy -- -
9:57 - 10:00we slice them into smaller,
more manageable problems. -
10:01 - 10:05But every once in a while,
as Dwight Eisenhower said, -
10:05 - 10:09the way you solve a problem
is to make it bigger. -
10:10 - 10:13The way we solve this problem
-
10:13 - 10:16is to make the issue
of the death penalty bigger. -
10:17 - 10:19We have to say, all right.
-
10:19 - 10:23We have these four chapters
of a death penalty story, -
10:24 - 10:28but what happens before that story begins?
-
10:29 - 10:32How can we intervene
in the life of a murderer -
10:33 - 10:35before he's a murderer?
-
10:36 - 10:42What options do we have
to nudge that person off of the path -
10:42 - 10:45that is going to lead
to a result that everybody -- -
10:46 - 10:48death penalty supporters
and death penalty opponents -- -
10:48 - 10:52still think is a bad result:
-
10:52 - 10:54the murder of an innocent human being?
-
10:57 - 11:02You know, sometimes people say
that something isn't rocket science. -
11:03 - 11:06And by that, what they mean
is rocket science is really complicated -
11:07 - 11:10and this problem that we're
talking about now is really simple. -
11:11 - 11:12Well that's rocket science;
-
11:12 - 11:17that's the mathematical expression
for the thrust created by a rocket. -
11:20 - 11:23What we're talking about today
is just as complicated. -
11:25 - 11:29What we're talking about today
is also rocket science. -
11:30 - 11:34My client Will and 80 percent
of the people on death row -
11:35 - 11:38had five chapters in their lives
-
11:38 - 11:42that came before the four chapters
of the death penalty story. -
11:43 - 11:47I think of these five chapters
as points of intervention, -
11:47 - 11:49places in their lives
-
11:49 - 11:52when our society
could've intervened in their lives -
11:53 - 11:56and nudged them off of the path
that they were on -
11:56 - 11:59that created a consequence that we all --
-
11:59 - 12:01death penalty supporters
or death penalty opponents -- -
12:01 - 12:03say was a bad result.
-
12:04 - 12:07Now, during each of these five chapters:
-
12:07 - 12:09when his mother was pregnant with him;
-
12:09 - 12:11in his early childhood years;
-
12:11 - 12:13when he was in elementary school;
-
12:13 - 12:15when he was in middle school
and then high school; -
12:15 - 12:17and when he was
in the juvenile justice system -- -
12:17 - 12:19during each of those five chapters,
-
12:19 - 12:22there were a wide variety of things
that society could have done. -
12:22 - 12:24In fact, if we just imagine
-
12:24 - 12:26that there are five
different modes of intervention, -
12:26 - 12:31the way that society could intervene
in each of those five chapters, -
12:31 - 12:33and we could mix and match them
any way we want, -
12:33 - 12:37there are 3,000 -- more than 3,000 --
possible strategies -
12:37 - 12:38that we could embrace
-
12:38 - 12:42in order to nudge kids like Will
off of the path that they're on. -
12:44 - 12:47So I'm not standing here today
with the solution. -
12:48 - 12:52But the fact that we
still have a lot to learn, -
12:53 - 12:56that doesn't mean
that we don't know a lot already. -
12:57 - 13:00We know from experience in other states
-
13:00 - 13:04that there are a wide variety
of modes of intervention -
13:04 - 13:05that we could be using in Texas,
-
13:05 - 13:08and in every other state
that isn't using them, -
13:08 - 13:12in order to prevent a consequence
that we all agree is bad. -
13:12 - 13:14I'll just mention a few.
-
13:17 - 13:21I won't talk today
about reforming the legal system. -
13:23 - 13:24That's probably a topic
-
13:24 - 13:27that is best reserved
for a room full of lawyers and judges. -
13:28 - 13:32Instead, let me talk
about a couple of modes of intervention -
13:32 - 13:34that we can all help accomplish,
-
13:35 - 13:37because they are modes of intervention
that will come about -
13:37 - 13:41when legislators and policymakers,
when taxpayers and citizens, -
13:41 - 13:43agree that that's
what we ought to be doing -
13:44 - 13:46and that's how we ought
to be spending our money. -
13:46 - 13:49We could be providing early childhood care
-
13:50 - 13:54for economically disadvantaged
and otherwise troubled kids, -
13:55 - 13:57and we could be doing it for free.
-
13:57 - 14:01And we could be nudging kids like Will
off of the path that we're on. -
14:01 - 14:04There are other states
that do that, but we don't. -
14:05 - 14:08We could be providing special schools,
-
14:08 - 14:10at both the high school level
and the middle school level, -
14:10 - 14:13but even in K-5,
-
14:13 - 14:16that target economically
and otherwise disadvantaged kids, -
14:16 - 14:20and particularly kids who have had
exposure to the juvenile justice system. -
14:20 - 14:22There are a handful
of states that do that; -
14:22 - 14:23Texas doesn't.
-
14:26 - 14:30There's one other thing we can be doing --
well, there are a bunch of other things -- -
14:30 - 14:32there's one other thing
that I'm going to mention, -
14:33 - 14:36and this is going to be the only
controversial thing that I say today. -
14:36 - 14:39We could be intervening
much more aggressively -
14:39 - 14:42into dangerously dysfunctional homes,
-
14:42 - 14:44and getting kids out of them
-
14:44 - 14:48before their moms pick up butcher knives
and threaten to kill them. -
14:50 - 14:53If we're going to do that,
we need a place to put them. -
14:54 - 14:55Even if we do all of those things,
-
14:55 - 14:58some kids are going
to fall through the cracks -
14:58 - 15:00and they're going to end up
in that last chapter -
15:00 - 15:01before the murder story begins,
-
15:01 - 15:04they're going to end up
in the juvenile justice system. -
15:04 - 15:07And even if that happens,
it's not yet too late. -
15:08 - 15:11There's still time to nudge them,
-
15:11 - 15:15if we think about nudging them
rather than just punishing them. -
15:15 - 15:17There are two professors
in the Northeast -- -
15:17 - 15:18one at Yale and one at Maryland --
-
15:18 - 15:22they set up a school
that is attached to a juvenile prison. -
15:23 - 15:25And the kids are in prison,
but they go to school -
15:25 - 15:28from eight in the morning
until four in the afternoon. -
15:28 - 15:30Now, it was logistically difficult.
-
15:30 - 15:33They had to recruit teachers
who wanted to teach inside a prison, -
15:33 - 15:35they had to establish strict separation
-
15:35 - 15:38between the people who work at the school
and the prison authorities, -
15:38 - 15:40and most dauntingly of all,
-
15:40 - 15:42they needed to invent a new curriculum
because you know what? -
15:42 - 15:46People don't come into and out of prison
on a semester basis. -
15:46 - 15:47(Laughter)
-
15:47 - 15:50But they did all those things.
-
15:50 - 15:53Now, what do all of these things
have in common? -
15:53 - 15:58What all of these things have in common
is that they cost money. -
16:00 - 16:02Some of the people in the room
might be old enough -
16:02 - 16:06to remember the guy
on the old oil filter commercial. -
16:06 - 16:12He used to say, "Well, you can pay me now
or you can pay me later." -
16:14 - 16:17What we're doing
in the death penalty system -
16:18 - 16:20is we're paying later.
-
16:22 - 16:26But the thing is
that for every 15,000 dollars -
16:26 - 16:28that we spend intervening
-
16:28 - 16:32in the lives of economically
and otherwise disadvantaged kids -
16:32 - 16:33in those earlier chapters,
-
16:34 - 16:38we save 80,000 dollars
in crime-related costs down the road. -
16:39 - 16:44Even if you don't agree that
there's a moral imperative that we do it, -
16:45 - 16:48it just makes economic sense.
-
16:50 - 16:53I want to tell you about the last
conversation that I had with Will. -
16:54 - 16:58It was the day that
he was going to be executed, -
17:00 - 17:02and we were just talking.
-
17:02 - 17:05There was nothing left to do in his case.
-
17:05 - 17:07And we were talking about his life.
-
17:08 - 17:12And he was talking first about his dad,
who he hardly knew, who had died, -
17:12 - 17:17and then about his mom,
who he did know, who was still alive. -
17:18 - 17:19And I said to him,
-
17:21 - 17:22"I know the story.
-
17:23 - 17:24I've read the records.
-
17:25 - 17:26I know that she tried to kill you."
-
17:27 - 17:29I said, "But I've always wondered
-
17:29 - 17:32whether you really
actually remember that." -
17:32 - 17:36I said, "I don't remember anything
from when I was five years old. -
17:36 - 17:38Maybe you just remember
somebody telling you." -
17:39 - 17:42And he looked at me and he leaned forward,
-
17:42 - 17:43and he said, "Professor," --
-
17:43 - 17:46he'd known me for 12 years,
he still called me Professor. -
17:46 - 17:49He said, "Professor,
I don't mean any disrespect by this, -
17:50 - 17:52but when your mama
picks up a butcher knife -
17:52 - 17:55that looks bigger than you are,
-
17:55 - 17:59and chases you through the house
screaming she's going to kill you, -
17:59 - 18:01and you have to lock yourself
in the bathroom -
18:01 - 18:02and lean against the door
-
18:02 - 18:05and holler for help
until the police get there," -
18:06 - 18:08he looked at me and he said,
-
18:08 - 18:10"that's something you don't forget."
-
18:11 - 18:14I hope there's one thing
you all won't forget: -
18:14 - 18:16In between the time
you arrived here this morning -
18:16 - 18:18and the time we break for lunch,
-
18:18 - 18:22there are going to be
four homicides in the United States. -
18:22 - 18:25We're going to devote
enormous social resources -
18:25 - 18:27to punishing the people
who commit those crimes, -
18:27 - 18:28and that's appropriate
-
18:28 - 18:31because we should punish
people who do bad things. -
18:31 - 18:33But three of those crimes are preventable.
-
18:35 - 18:38If we make the picture bigger
-
18:38 - 18:41and devote our attention
to the earlier chapters, -
18:42 - 18:46then we're never going
to write the first sentence -
18:46 - 18:47that begins the death penalty story.
-
18:49 - 18:50Thank you.
-
18:50 - 18:52(Applause)
- Title:
- Lessons from death row inmates | David R. Dow | TEDxAustin
- Description:
-
What happens before a murder? In looking for ways to reduce death penalty cases, David R. Dow realized that a surprising number of death row inmates had similar biographies. In this talk he proposes a bold plan, one that prevents murders in the first place.
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at http://ted.com/tedx
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDxTalks
- Duration:
- 18:52
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Ivana Korom accepted English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates | David R. Dow | TEDxAustin | ||
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TED Translators admin edited English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates | David R. Dow | TEDxAustin | ||
TED Translators admin edited English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates | David R. Dow | TEDxAustin | ||
TED Translators admin edited English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates | David R. Dow | TEDxAustin | ||
TED Translators admin edited English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates | David R. Dow | TEDxAustin | ||
TED Translators admin edited English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates | David R. Dow | TEDxAustin |