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34C3 - institutions for Resolution Disputes

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    34C3 preroll music
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    Herald: Resolution is always a compromise
    we have got used to. Why not talk about it
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    again this is why the next talk is
    entitled: "Institution for Resolution
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    Disputes" and our speaker is Rosa Menkman
    a Dutch artist, curator and researcher, and
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    founder of IRD or "the Institute of
    resolution dispute". A big applause for
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    Rosa, please. And the stage is yours!
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    applause
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    Rosa Menkman: Thank you. Thank you for
    being here on this like - very late part
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    of the whole conference and I mean when I
    was checking in everybody seemed so tired
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    it was really funny to experience this
    like latency in everybody. So I'm Rosa
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    Menkman, I'm from the Netherlands
    everybody speaks German to me here, it's
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    really funny because my name sounds German
    but actually when you say something in
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    German I will speak back in English. But
    please speak to me when you want to.
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    In 2015, I'm gonna talk from 2015 onwards,
    I was invited to be a research fellow in a
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    big Institute in the Netherlands to do
    research on resolutions and this was a
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    huge honor for me and I dropped everything
    in London where I used to live at the time
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    and went and moved back to Amsterdam which
    actually was not my favorite city in the
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    world at all. So I went there and three
    days before my, my contract started which
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    we had already signed like a month back
    and everything: I was fired because the
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    head of the department had looked into my
    accreditation and my PhD that I was doing
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    at the time, had started somewhere else
    and had not the right accreditations since
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    I ported it from Cologne to London and so
    I would have to revisit the whole
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    institutional network and get my stuff
    right in time to start. Now that was not
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    possible. And so I was,... how do you say
    that "properly for a live stream". I was
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    like dropped the kitty dead. So I got
    really,... how you say like - sad in
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    Amsterdam. Alone, without a cause and kind
    of angry with institutions and this is
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    when at a certain time I got out of my
    darkness and went to the Californian
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    desert to live alone in the middle of
    nowhere and this talk will be about two
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    works that I made, or two institutions,
    two exhibitions: one is the institution
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    institutes - like a double or a plural -
    for resolution disputes and then the
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    second one which is kind of a more in-
    depth research is behind white shadows.
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    And I made these and the research kind of
    started in the deserts where I was looking
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    from my house into this little village.
    You have to imagine the desert there's not
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    a lot but straight from my patio I could
    see this - this is from Google Street for
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    you - so you can't really see it very well
    but this is a Little Baghdad and Little
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    Baghdad as a military place where people
    bomb the hell out of at night so you wake
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    up you hear and feel this infrasounds then
    you know the military is having some fun
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    or something like that.
    So I was inspired by a research that was
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    done in the zone by Trevor Paglen - Trevor
    Peglon you all should know is a Hacker and
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    artist - political artist and technologist
    and he made a work called "symbology".
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    That's a research on all the military
    patches in the U.S.A. He went to Area 51,
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    drove around it and interviewed people to
    see what all those patches meant and he
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    found out there is a secret language in
    these patches and so while I was there and
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    I could see and hear and feel all these
    secret military operations I still had no
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    idea what was happening so I was really
    inspired by like not really understanding
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    all the data, all the information, all the
    feelings you have while you're sitting on
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    your patio. And this with the symbology
    research made me to create these two
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    patches which are kind of like the keys to
    two works of the institutions: "Institutions
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    for Resolution Disputes" and "Behind the
    White Shadows". One is the black on black
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    patch which is an encrypted patch and the
    second one is a white on white patch and
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    it glows in the dark, because I like that.
    With this started also because you know
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    the Institute had dropped me but I still
    wanted to do my research. I started to do
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    it by myself and I started to call it
    "Beyond Resolution" mostly because I was
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    dropped from the school but also because
    you know I wanted to understand what was
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    happening between these things that I can
    sense but that are not resolved for me to
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    be read. So I started this "beyond
    resolutions" the website and I research
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    resolutions from vernacular, a habitual,
    genealogical, a tactical and a skill
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    perspective. So I think these are five
    very interesting ways to break resolutions
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    down and to understand that resolutions
    are not always ways to "solve" an image, a
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    text, whatever. But also a way to
    compromise certain data and to not be able
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    to understand it, to make things
    unintelligible or to obfuscate or even cut
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    out particular pieces of information. So
    this was not the first time I had a fight
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    with an institutional network. When I was
    young already, I was really inspired by,
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    you know like all kids actually, I was
    inspired by the universe and specifically
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    sound in space and I wanted to research
    sound in space but my teacher told me it's
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    not possible because there is no sound in
    space. Only years later I found out that
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    there is actually sound in space. You need
    to just transcode it in the right way. You
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    can transcode specific frequencies and
    that's when I started to understand
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    there's much more to data than just the
    ways we normally show it, so I have
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    started in my classes to explain to my
    kids I've been teaching this year to
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    colloquia here in Germany and also some in
    other countries, just visiting
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    lectureships there. I was starting to
    teach about the rheology of data. A
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    rheology is a term from physics and it
    means kind of the fluidity of matter and
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    the siphoning of data so here you see you
    know just a normal spectrum that you can
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    listen to but you also see a little
    rainbow - very simplified rainbow - and I
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    teach my kids in one of the first classes
    that you can actually listen to rainbows
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    if you just sonofy them and what that
    means because there's a whole political
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    field here in medicine and in big data
    research sometimes so sonofing certain
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    pieces of data gives us a completely new
    insight. This year I had to teach a class
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    of painters and they don't do computation
    at all. They're actually scared of it: one
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    of the kids told me a "but you know, you
    make arts or you make artistic work with
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    your computation, how do you find emotions
    in that? How can you - I mean it's not
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    possible computers are without analysis,
    where is actually the emotion in paint? You
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    know you put it in there". so I have all
    these like very basic problems that I
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    encounter when I teach these kids about
    very complex ways of thinking about your
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    data or complex or maybe so not complex
    that it becomes complex for them like
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    taking away all the institutional
    frameworks and really going to the core
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    and how can you translate them- So this is
    a work by Beflix and I try to use it as an
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    example of how data and painting can come
    together this is a string of data that he
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    painted on a piece of fabric, but then he
    gives you the program that can be any
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    object and you can wrap it around the
    object and then it becomes a painting
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    depending on the program that, you know,
    shows that that piece of data. I think
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    it's a very interesting way to connect the
    materiality of paint and the materiality
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    of data and to kind of bridge the gap and
    I'm kind of explaining these things also
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    because I think all of us are educators in
    a certain way. Specifically if you're a
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    hacker you're dealing a lot with opening
    up information and trying to make it like
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    understandable for other people or yeah
    obfuscated then you have to understand how
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    other people read it. So what I'm trying
    to do is also give you some problems that
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    I've been running into while I've been
    teaching this whole year like crazy to
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    make some side money since I have no more
    money. Now you've been thinking probably
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    like "What is this crazy presentation
    she's giving with the clouds and weird
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    slides?". It's part of a work that I've
    made a few - wait I have to go to here -
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    yeah it's a 3d work it was inspired by
    work that was called "compressed process"
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    it was a way to get my videos out of the
    quadrilateral frame because one way that
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    resolutions make us think about our media
    is the way they are embedded so if I put
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    my video for instance on Vimeo I know it's
    a work of video that I can probably skip
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    through. If I want to make a piece of
    video arts and I want to really think
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    about materiality of that piece of video
    arts and then put it on Vimeo I kind of
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    defeat this purpose, right? It becomes
    this like really boring object that I mean
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    if I watch a video art online which I
    rarely do but if I do it I skip every 15
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    seconds or maybe minutes. I mean if I look
    through my own videos on Vimeo then I have
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    hardly any full place. So I started to
    feel really like this is defeating the
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    purpose of my research. So starting to
    make applications to put videos in: to
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    make weird slideshow things and this is a
    work that I released and I release it and
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    got a really WIRED review by WIRED Germany
    - thank you very much. and they said:
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    "it's a flop as a video game: it's super
    annoying" now I was just making a piece of
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    video art in a 3d environment but what I
    realized is that you can never escape your
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    resolution. Video is what is in a flat
    screen: the moment I put my videos in 3d
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    as a texture that you can navigate: it
    becomes a video game even if there's no
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    goal but just to watch some silly stuff
    float around: so you can never escape your
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    resolutions every time you're
    deconstructing a resolution, you're also
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    reconstructing a new resolution so you're
    always building compromises and debuilding
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    compromises. So that said, I was really
    annoyed with the Institute that fired me
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    and I started the "Institutions for
    Resolution Disputes" and this was really
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    to show them like "Look: I want to win
    from you" - basically I don't know how to
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    say this properly. I will skip a few
    slides because I am going through time
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    very fast. This is a resolution target:
    I'm using this slide because this is
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    actually an aerial photography target from
    1951 for analog photography. It was used
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    also in the Californian desert by the
    American military I was living two hours
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    drive away from this, so one day I drove
    through the desert in my little car and
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    almost got stuck but I survived and I saw
    it and realized later that there is a work
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    by Hito Steyerl inspired by this pattern.
    And it's beautiful and all about
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    resolutions and in this work she is
    saying: "this is a resolution target. It
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    measures the resolution of the world as a
    picture, resolution determines visibility
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    whatever is not captured by resolution is
    invisible and what I'm trying to do is
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    expand the visibility and make things
    visible that are normally not visible". I
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    gonna skip a few slides and go to a work
    that I made when I was finally coming back
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    from the desert and invited by Transfer
    Gallery in New York to make a solo show
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    about my anger. At that time I was
    actually approached by the Museum of
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    Modern Art in Amsterdam to buy a big work
    of mine "venacular file format" - it's a
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    work that kind of deconstructs different
    kinds of compression languages and shows
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    what is the basis and the politics of
    these compressions so I used the same
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    image I put a similar glitch in it or
    similar data abstraction and see what
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    comes out and by this, these aesthetics
    that come out on the surface, I try to
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    explain how this compressions are built.
    When the museum wanted to buy it they
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    wanted to buy the research archive which
    means 16 gigabytes of broken data
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    basically all put into folders of like
    this is a JPEG when it's broken like this.
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    So what do you do when you sell 16
    gigabytes of broken data and how do you
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    show it? I started to research what else
    was happening in this work. I'm going to
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    boot up a new presentation because
    unfortunately,... yeah I started to
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    realize that my work actually has lived
    beyond this particular research. This is
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    also my face but I started to see it in
    many places I started to see it on
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    teacups, I started to see it on sweaters,
    a lot of glitch iPhone and Android apps
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    use it as their icon, I started to see
    that people used my face and clicked on it
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    and then they were making a glitch. So
    this work expanded from its research
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    archive and the PDF that was constructed
    out of it to something completely copied
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    without copyright and commodified and
    strange for me. I lost my own face in a
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    way and then I started to realize that -
    this is not - I'm not the only one that
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    has lost their face so I did a little bit
    of research and found for instance this
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    work by James Bridle, who's been doing
    research on the render ghosts. If you're
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    walking through London and you see all
    these billboards of new architectural
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    constructions being built then you always
    have these render ghosts put inside of
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    them. And he made a whole archive of
    trying to understand who these people are.
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    This is his render research blog in which
    he has a whole archive of different kinds
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    of people and when he finally researched
    where these people came from he came to a
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    kind of a company that sells render BOTS
    or render images that were based in New
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    Mexico. And so he went to New Mexico to
    see if you could find these people and to
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    ask did anybody ask you if they could use
    your face. But he found nobody that looked
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    like these people of course - of course -
    because... Finally he found somebody in a
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    bar that told them like look if you really
    look close to these people they really
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    don't look like people in New Mexico these
    are fancy people and most of them are -
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    maybe Asian - but definitely not very much
    looking like the people that walk the
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    streets of New Mexico and finally he never
    got the answer but he did realize that
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    these people were probably never asked to
    be used. So this is one example of the
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    line in which I've seen this kind of co-
    optation of or objectification of humans.
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    This is a research by Constant Dullart, he
    presented it in the 32c3. It's called
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    "Jennifer in Paradise". It's part of "a
    possibility of an army talk". If you ever
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    want to look it back it's a beautiful
    talk. Here Constant found the photo of
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    Jennifer. Jennifer was the soon-to-be wife
    of John Knoll the programmer of Photoshop
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    and John tried to test his Photoshop
    software on an image and that image was
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    the image of his - not so very properly
    dressed girlfriend Jennifer at the time
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    and one of the lines that I think are most
    striking of this work is when he says "did
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    you ever ask permission to Jennifer? Do
    you realize that you're objectifying your
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    own soon-to-be wife?". It's an open letter
    to Jennifer but there are some remarks in
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    an other article in which he says these
    things. So I realized I mean this
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    tradition but worse even.. switching again
    because there's not I cannot port a lot of
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    slides in my strangely build software.
    Part of a more longer tradition or a
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    longer tradition of Caucasian test carts
    while I was using my face as a test card
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    for glitch so how do images fall apart -
    there's actually a long tradition of the
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    use of the white face or the white model
    in photography and other image processing
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    technologies. So here are some "normal"
    test images these are very pretty ladies.
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    Here is an image of Teddy. Her name is
    Teddy Smith she was the Playboy centerfold
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    of the 1960s and she was used for a paper
    on theatre. Here is Lena.jpg. Lena was a
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    Playboy centerfold of 1973 and when in
    1972 and then in 1973 Nasarah Met a
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    researcher originally from Bangalore tried
    to write about a new compression standard
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    using DCT - discrete cosine transform -
    which became later the basis of JPEG he
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    was not really met with a lot of
    enthusiasm. However when he finally did
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    publish his paper on DCT. California
    picked up really fast and in one of the
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    labs a few guys found an image to test his
    premise of the DCTs and this was Lena. And
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    Lena was the basis of the compressions
    that we still use most often in art. If
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    you walk through for instance the kebab or
    whatever and you see these big photos of
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    kebabs on on the front of the for instance
    if you go to Sonnalae you will see a kebab
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    printed out really big and you serious
    like kind of blocky kebab parts that is a
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    block that has been tested on Lena but
    only tested on Lena.So the people in this
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    particular research place they were using
    an image of the 1972 centerfolds scanned
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    it in with their own Moorhead scanner.
    They had a self-built circuit bent
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    Moorhead scanner with three channels a
    red, green and blue, but one of the
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    channels or one of the that the scanning
    mechanisms was a little bit slower. So
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    they lost one line - she got a little bit
    thinner even in the photo so she looked a
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    little bit better and they used only this
    photo it's 512 by 512 pixels. So from a
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    media archaeological perspective this is a
    very strange object but also if you think
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    about politics they use just this image as
    a one-size-fits-all, but compression in our
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    daily lives is not one-size-fits-all. It's
    not "physics it's just physics" we're
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    using different objects to compress our
    images with. So what would it mean if we
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    now use still the Lena compression when
    it's just another kind of image is there
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    maybe a racist undertone in this kind of
    compression? There was a lot of research
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    and a lot of like kind of like.. not anger,
    but, like, criticism from mostly the female
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    community. Finally this is not the end of
    the Caucasian test card, we still have
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    this kind of usage of white images in all
    our technologies for instance in the HP
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    webcams a few years ago. They were only
    tested on white people and once they went
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    to sales, to retail they would not track any
    black images and any black faces because
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    they were never tested on this. There was
    also the Nikon Coolpix Camera that always
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    would ask Asian features: "Are you maybe
    closing your eyes?". So they were never
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    tested on any but Caucasian faces so this
    whole history of using a Caucasian test
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    object is still apparent in everyday
    technologies. And it's really problematic
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    and I realized that I kind of -
    unknowingly - kind of was playing a role
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    in this by also using my own face and
    letting this be the face for
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    deconstructing facial or vernacular file
    formats the compression of images. So by
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    behind the white shadows I showed my
    research archive I also showed the
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    research archive of other image,... images
    that used by Caucasian females. And I
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    finally showed the work that I made for
    the whole... I said when I do a lot of
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    research on compressions I realised that
    when I try to explain it often when I
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    really got into the mathematics I lose my
    students completely. So I was starting to
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    try to build kind of works that would not
    just be mathematical but try to get the
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    emotions that the painters wanted in my
    work back and so I started to kind of
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    anthropomorphize my object. So for
    instance JPEGs are built out of blocks. I
  • 23:02 - 23:07
    started to really make works in which the
    blocks works talking about the experience
  • 23:07 - 23:16
    of compressing a particular image. One of
    the works was DCT siphoning. I will play
  • 23:16 - 23:27
    it in the background really quickly - if
    it wants to. Yeah, there it is: So that
  • 23:27 - 23:30
    doesn't really want to play but that
    doesn't it's because it's also playing on
  • 23:30 - 23:36
    my own screen. Anyway: In DCT siphoning
    there is two blocks it's inspired by the
  • 23:36 - 23:46
    Roman flatland by James Abbott. And in
    flatland there's an object in a flatland
  • 23:46 - 23:51
    that has to learn about different
    complexities of space, Euclidean space. In
  • 23:51 - 23:56
    this particular inspiration I'm taking two
    blocks that have to learn about different
  • 23:56 - 24:01
    complexities of compression so they go
    from the dots to pixels to the lines which
  • 24:01 - 24:06
    are for instance the basis of GIFs to the
    blocks their own space for JPEGs to
  • 24:06 - 24:13
    wavelets and to vector objects or even
    lidar technologies. And they experience it
  • 24:13 - 24:20
    how humans would experience it. The little
    one sometimes gets really scared, while
  • 24:20 - 24:25
    the big one kind of knows what to expect
    and tries to hold him by the hand and
  • 24:25 - 24:29
    tries to explain like look you don't have
    to be scared here: It's just lines, it's
  • 24:29 - 24:36
    just vectors etc. So it's kind of like,
    how humans experience things that they
  • 24:36 - 24:42
    cannot read that are a eligible to them
    and how when we see something that we
  • 24:42 - 24:50
    cannot understand, often just dismiss it
    and don't want to read it and I find this
  • 24:50 - 25:02
    really important. And I think also just
    to... to try to explain that when you
  • 25:02 - 25:07
    dismiss stuff, you're dismissing actually
    a piece of information. It might be really
  • 25:07 - 25:12
    important and it might be eligible, I
    cannot just show the kids that I'm
  • 25:12 - 25:15
    teaching like "Look, there is something
    you just don't understand it" so what I'm
  • 25:15 - 25:21
    trying to do is build these works to show
    how they are acting towards their
  • 25:21 - 25:24
    compressions and there are digital
    technologies and explain them like "Look,
  • 25:24 - 25:33
    you're acting just like this little block
    that runs away from the compression". So
  • 25:33 - 25:40
    what I wanted to close with is the
    conclusion of the two exhibitions: The
  • 25:40 - 25:46
    "Institutions of Resolution Disputes" and
    "Behind White Shadows" and that's the
  • 25:46 - 25:51
    question: every time we're using
    technologies they're following particular
  • 25:51 - 25:59
    resolutions - resolution sets through
    standards for instance by the ISO or other
  • 25:59 - 26:06
    standardizing institutions. We have to
    always ask who set these standards, who
  • 26:06 - 26:11
    made these resolutions and what are they
    compromising. Because if we're not asking
  • 26:11 - 26:16
    what are they compromising we might become
    blind to other options. For instance,
  • 26:16 - 26:21
    video is not just the quadrilateral
    object, right? if video would be something
  • 26:21 - 26:26
    more than just what's happening within
    this quadrilateral frame, this window,
  • 26:26 - 26:30
    then I would have different, I could make
    different shapes of video. I could put
  • 26:30 - 26:34
    them on top of each other I could make
    collage of videos that would have
  • 26:34 - 26:37
    different timelines and different
    soundtracks and I could really play with
  • 26:37 - 26:43
    what video also is. Because in the end
    video is just a moving story that can have
  • 26:43 - 26:48
    different levels. But because of computer
    technologies and other technologies before
  • 26:48 - 26:53
    it, we've become stuck in the resolution of
    video and we've compromised the other
  • 26:53 - 27:00
    options and these compromises are not just
    in fun: They are in actual real-life -
  • 27:00 - 27:04
    realities that give problems to us or that
    make problems for other people. And that's
  • 27:04 - 27:10
    why we need to ask, always: who is setting
    the accordances of our resolutions and
  • 27:10 - 27:18
    what is being compromised. Who is casting
    the shadows behind our technologies. And
  • 27:18 - 27:23
    so I wanted to close with a quote by
    Hannah Arendt which is "Define and create
  • 27:23 - 27:28
    the future - do not be defined just by
    your past" and I think we should also use
  • 27:28 - 27:33
    our technologies these ways. We can still
    define and create our futures we can
  • 27:33 - 27:41
    create our own PowerPoints in weird 3d
    technologies and we can make videos that
  • 27:41 - 27:46
    are not quadrilateral and then get burned
    by like WIRED's reviews or whatever.
  • 27:46 - 27:51
    That's okay. You know it's actually fun to
    get an angry review because people are
  • 27:51 - 27:59
    just really boring. So the work these
    designing is downloadable from my
  • 27:59 - 28:06
    websites. The paper "behind white shadows"
    also and I would like to end here and
  • 28:06 - 28:10
    maybe take a question if there is a
    question. Thank you.
  • 28:10 - 28:20
    Applause
    Herald: We have about two minutes for
  • 28:20 - 28:28
    questions. There are four microphones two
    on this side two on this side and yeah
  • 28:28 - 28:33
    microphone 2 - please ask your question.
    Mic2: Thanks for a great talk. It's great
  • 28:33 - 28:37
    to see a concept like discrete cosine
    transformation and run length encoding
  • 28:37 - 28:43
    being a present in art work and also I
    found out many years ago that in the JPEG
  • 28:43 - 28:49
    standards there's an optional way of
    compressing JPEGs instead of Huffman encoding
  • 28:49 - 28:53
    you can use rhythmic encoding and it's
    never enabled by any browser so those
  • 28:53 - 28:59
    JPEGs are never used that are should be
    mostly smaller and use more... less
  • 28:59 - 29:04
    bandwidth. Have you seen any people that
    actually would like to introduce a
  • 29:04 - 29:10
    rhythmic encoding or other compression
    standards or variants of it. Just to well
  • 29:10 - 29:13
    use more computing power and save
    bandwidth?
  • 29:13 - 29:19
    Rosa: I think one of my favorite artists
    working with JPEG is Ted Davis. He's based
  • 29:19 - 29:26
    out of Basel and he's been doing really
    breaking the JPEG compression down really
  • 29:26 - 29:30
    from like the basics and then you can
    really write into the JPEG compression.
  • 29:30 - 29:38
    But I don't think he tackled even a
    rhythmic encoding. Yeah actually I did, I
  • 29:38 - 29:44
    didn't show this but in the end I wanted
    to and I will show it to you because
  • 29:44 - 29:50
    you're asking about JPEGs. This is a work
    that I made when I was actually fired by
  • 29:50 - 30:02
    the Institutes and it uses the DCTs and
    when I was fired they made it cryptography
  • 30:02 - 30:08
    Design Awards and I thought now you fired
    me I will make a game with you. I would
  • 30:08 - 30:13
    send you some cryptography. So I made my
    own kind of like encryption which is of
  • 30:13 - 30:17
    course I mean even cryptography design
    seems like really silly so I thought okay
  • 30:17 - 30:23
    I will do something really silly I use the
    DCT that you're asking about. DCT it is
  • 30:23 - 30:31
    discrete cosine transform consists of 64
    macro blocks. I mapped every macro block to
  • 30:31 - 30:37
    every glyph of the alphabet so the 64 most
    used characters and then I wrote them a
  • 30:37 - 30:42
    message a really angry message actually
    one of the institutions is completely
  • 30:42 - 30:47
    against them is one of the five
    institutions of the exhibition. And guess
  • 30:47 - 30:53
    who won that competition. I don't think I
    ever read it because they're too lame to
  • 30:53 - 30:57
    read the shit. But I think they did
    something nice back. "Nice" means that I
  • 30:57 - 31:02
    got one tenth of the money they were
    supposed to pay me in this silly computer
  • 31:02 - 31:09
    here but I feel like in a way I fucked up.
    I said it anyway. So I won a little bit
  • 31:09 - 31:16
    that day but just 1/10 of what I lost.
    Thank you.
  • 31:16 - 31:21
    Applause
    Herald: Is there another question from the
  • 31:21 - 31:27
    internet, signal angel? No. Then I I would
    like to have the opportunity to ask a
  • 31:27 - 31:34
    question myself because I did work in
    super resolution microscopy. Did you ever
  • 31:34 - 31:40
    look into super resolving biological
    structures I've seen some Moire patterns
  • 31:40 - 31:44
    in your work, in your presentation right
    now did you ever touch that or what did
  • 31:44 - 31:49
    you do with Moire patterns?
    Rosa: Moire patterns? Yes oh yeah okay so
  • 31:49 - 31:54
    for me I was talking a little bit about
    the nicology of compression complexities.
  • 31:54 - 32:00
    So really going from the line to the dots
    to the lines to the blocks to the wavelets
  • 32:00 - 32:05
    to the... you know like very complex, I
    would say also zip files are part of that
  • 32:05 - 32:10
    complexity like when everything just gets
    chaotic when we as humans don't have
  • 32:10 - 32:19
    Euclidean space necessary to compare to it
    then it becomes really messy. But anyway,
  • 32:19 - 32:26
    they go through line environments and in
    this line environment the little one gets
  • 32:26 - 32:30
    really excited because he can play through
    the Moire patterns and actually he's
  • 32:30 - 32:36
    having a little romantic moment with one
    of the Moire which is also a joke because
  • 32:36 - 32:41
    you know a lot of people only like to like
    things they understand already. They, I
  • 32:41 - 32:44
    mean the exercise is always in
    understanding something that is more
  • 32:44 - 32:48
    complex but that's what most people are
    scared of. So it's easy to fall in love
  • 32:48 - 32:54
    with a line if you're a block it's hard to
    fall in love with the wavelet right. So I
  • 32:54 - 32:59
    mean but anyway that's not really your
    question you're asking about Moire in
  • 32:59 - 33:04
    biology and I've never worked with Moire
    in biology. Was that an answer?
  • 33:04 - 33:11
    Herald: Yeah, yeah thanks! Ok any question
    left? I think we are out of time. Yes a
  • 33:11 - 33:16
    big round of applause for our speaker Rosa
    Menkman.
  • 33:16 - 33:19
    Applause
  • 33:19 - 33:31
    34C3 postroll music
  • 33:31 - 33:40
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Title:
34C3 - institutions for Resolution Disputes
Description:

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Video Language:
English
Duration:
33:40

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