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https:/.../28c3-4669-en-bionic_ears_h264.mp4

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    [APPLAUSE]
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    HELGA VELROYEN: Hi.
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    Can you hear me?
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    Ah, nice.
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    That's what it's all about.
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    Welcome to my talk.
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    I will talk about hearing
    aids and what the
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    state-of-the-art is.
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    There will be a little hacking,
    but not my own.
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    I know that there are some
    people interested in my talk
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    that can not hear very
    well or not at all.
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    So I will publish slides that
    have very detailed speaker
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    notes so that you can
    read it afterwards,
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    if you missed anything.
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    I hope there will be a
    recording available.
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    And if it's possible to add
    subtitles, I will do those.
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    OK.
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    First, a few words about me.
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    I'm a software engineer.
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    I am based in Munich.
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    Some people might know me from
    my time in Cologne, as well.
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    I'm more a software geek
    than a hardware hacker.
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    So all this is also new to me.
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    From university, I have a
    background in data mining and
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    signal processing.
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    I worked in the medical
    industry for a while.
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    But that had nothing to
    do with hearing aids.
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    Also, my current job
    has nothing to do
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    with hearing aids.
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    So this is really just
    my personal project.
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    I'm hearing impaired for
    about 3 and 1/2 years.
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    So this is when I started
    to dig into the topic.
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    And well, yeah, that's just
    what I will talk about.
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    Since I haven't seen many talks
    about audiology here at
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    the Hacking Congress, I will
    start with a short
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    introduction and the process
    of how you get
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    hearing aids, actually.
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    Then what are the current
    hearing aid models, and what
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    can they actually do.
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    Some words about the peripheral
    hardware.
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    There's quite a lot
    of it outside.
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    And there is some hacking.
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    And another point is
    self-tuning, that are people
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    that tune their own hearing
    aids, although they are not
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    audiologists.
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    So this is an audiogram.
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    This is a result of a hearing
    test that you usually do at
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    ENT doctors.
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    The x-axis shows the frequency
    in kilohertz, and the y-axis,
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    the loudness, level of volume.
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    The silence is at the
    top, the really loud
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    sounds at the bottom.
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    And the green line you see
    here is that result of a
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    normal-hearing person.
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    And this is obtained by the
    audiologist. Or the doctor
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    plays sounds in the different
    frequencies.
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    It starts at a very
    low volume.
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    And as soon as you hear it, you
    hit a buzzer or say, yes.
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    And then they create
    this curve.
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    So the blue curve is a
    typical curve of a
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    hearing impaired person.
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    So what you can see here-- that,
    at the low frequencies,
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    their hearing is quite well.
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    That's very typical.
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    Their hearing starts to get
    worse in the high frequencies.
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    And bear in mind that the
    decibel scale is actually
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    logarithmic.
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    So if you have a hearing loss of
    60 decibels, it's 1 million
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    worse than 10 decibels.
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    So it's not linear.
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    Another thing that gets measured
    at an audiogram is
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    actually the maximum that
    you can hear or that
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    you can stand hearing.
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    So the audiologist raises the
    volume more and more, and you
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    have to say yes until
    it hurts.
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    So what you see here
    is the red curve.
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    It's the level of discomfort.
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    And also the typical thing is
    that it raises exactly at the
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    areas where the hearing
    goes bad.
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    This is a very complicated thing
    for tuning aids because
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    they can not just amplify
    everything.
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    Because you would hurt people
    very soon, as soon as you get
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    below the red line.
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    Another thing is the area where
    speech takes place.
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    This is called speech banana.
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    Actually, that's the technical
    term for it.
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    It will rise, of course,
    according to the language and
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    the speaker.
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    For example, female speakers
    have a little slightly
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    different curve than
    male speakers.
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    And this is the area where
    hearing aids target, which is
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    they are used to make you
    understand speech again.
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    So they focus on this
    area, actually.
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    And you can see the
    blue line here.
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    So half of the banana
    is actually cut.
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    And this is the high
    frequencies, which, in speech,
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    are the consonants like
    S and F, for example.
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    The vowels are usually
    understood quite well.
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    To give you an impression how
    I hear, I made a sample.
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    So this is a song called, "Sad
    Robot" from Pornophonique.
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    It's a nice band which
    makes music with a
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    Game Boy and a guitar.
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    And the original--
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    [SAD ROBOT, BY PORNOPHONIQUE]
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    HELGA VELROYEN: --has
    really nice high
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    frequencies at the beginning.
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    This is why I use
    it for testing.
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    And later, there's also
    some singing.
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    So this is the original.
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    And now I'm going to play my
    version, so with less high
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    frequencies and a tinnitus
    as well.
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    There's actually a web site
    where you can download
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    tinnitus sounds.
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    [LAUGHTER]
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    HELGA VELROYEN: And it says that
    you should actually turn
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    down the volume when you start
    broadcasting that because it
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    can hurt the audio equipment.
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    So I hope I don't destroy
    anything.
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    So I will turn it down first,
    then slightly increase it.
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    [SAD ROBOT, BY PORNOPHONIQUE]
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    HELGA VELROYEN: So this
    is not a feedback
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    loop, it's the tinnitus.
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    And without the high
    frequencies,
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    this is how it is.
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    So it's really hard to actually
    hear the high
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    frequencies.
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    Yeah, so this is just an
    impression of what hearing
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    aids have to work with.
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    Getting hearing aids,
    I like to compare
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    it to getting glasses.
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    So one day you wake up and
    everything is really blurry.
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    And you decide well, this
    is very not so good.
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    I should go to a doctor.
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    And then you go to a doctor.
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    You make some tests.
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    Then he sends you to an
    optometrist. He makes some
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    more tests.
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    Then you choose a model
    for your glasses.
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    And the optometrist orders
    the glasses and puts
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    them into the frame.
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    And then you're happy,
    seeing nerds.
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    And then you can see ponies.
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    [LAUGHTER]
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    HELGA VELROYEN: Getting hearing
    aids, unfortunately,
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    is not that easy.
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    So one day you realize you can
    not hear very well any more.
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    You go to a doctor.
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    You make some tests.
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    He sends you to an audiologist.
    He makes some
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    more tests.
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    You choose from the shop
    of the audiologist
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    some hearing aids.
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    And then the audiologist has
    to adjust the hearing aids
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    according to your audiogram.
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    And then it doesn't stop.
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    So then, actually,
    the work starts.
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    You have to go through all the
    difficult hearing situations
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    to test if it works with
    that tuned hearing aid.
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    So you drive a car.
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    You listen to music or other
    people in the car.
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    You try to have someone whisper
    something in your ear.
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    You listen to the TV. Or you go
    to a party where a lot of
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    people are talking to each
    other, and you have to make
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    out the person that's talking
    directly to you.
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    Or you listen to a talk like
    that where this speaker is
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    actually quite far away from
    your hearing aids.
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    And if you have done all that,
    you go back to the
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    audiologist. And you have to
    tell him why it doesn't work
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    or in what situations it
    doesn't really work.
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    And then he does some changes
    in the parameters.
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    And then you have to
    do that again.
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    And sometimes you switch
    to a different
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    hearing aid, as well.
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    So this whole process, these
    iterations, it takes weeks or
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    months until you have something
    that is actually
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    fitting to your ears.
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    And after that, you're
    sort of happy.
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    Actually, I haven't met a person
    that has hearing aids
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    that actually compensate for the
    hearing loss completely.
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    So whenever you are done with
    that, you're usually just
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    stopping because you don't
    want to spend any
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    more time on that.
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    And it works well enough.
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    Compared to glasses, this is
    actually a lot more effort and
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    a lot more frustrating.
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    Another thing is that hearing
    aids are really expensive.
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    A good hearing aid starts at
    like, 1,500 up to 3,000.
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    And I only have the numbers for
    the German health system.
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    The normal German insurance
    pays 500.
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    So there's a lot of money you
    have to pay for yourself.
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    Hearing aid models and
    their features.
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    There are roughly three types,
    in-ear units that go
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    completely into the ear canal.
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    A more common one is behind-ear
    hearing aids.
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    They are for mediocre to
    severe hearing losses.
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    The main part is
    behind the ear.
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    And another special thing are
    cochlear implants where parts
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    of it are implanted into the
    head and some is attached from
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    the outside.
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    I will mostly talk about the
    behind-ear hearing aids,
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    because that's what I have and
    where is a lot of variety on
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    the market.
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    Hearing aids got pretty
    invisible.
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    These are pictures of me wearing
    my hearing aid and not
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    wearing it.
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    So except for this little wire
    on the right side, you can not
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    really see it.
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    Most people that don't
    have hearing aids
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    find this an advantage.
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    People who have a hearing aid,
    actually, are not that sure
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    about it, because sometimes,
    when you have to ask someone
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    to repeat a sentence, if they
    know you're wearing a hearing
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    aid, they think, OK,
    she didn't get it
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    because of the acoustics.
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    And if they don't see it, they
    think, she didn't get it
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    because she was stupid.
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    So it's really not
    that obvious.
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    And sometimes it just helps that
    people see that you have
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    a handicap.
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    They also got pretty small.
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    This is an example of my hearing
    aids with a $0.50
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    piece, so you have an impression
    of the size.
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    And you can see that, actually,
    have just by the
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    battery compartment.
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    Out of curiosity, I took
    my hearing aids apart.
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    And--
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    [LAUGHTER]
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    HELGA VELROYEN: Of course.
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    [LAUGHS]
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    [APPLAUSE]
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    HELGA VELROYEN: You can see they
    have shells which you can
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    take off, which is like
    for mobile phones.
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    You can switch the color and
    choose a different one.
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    And the body--
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    so I know this picture
    is not really good.
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    There's still a lot of
    plastic around it.
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    And the white part there is two
    microphones, the signal
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    processor and antenna.
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    That's useful peripheral
    hardware.
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    I will come to that.
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    And the speaker is actually
    at the part that
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    goes into the ear.
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    And what you can also see here,
    the part that goes into
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    the ear has also holes where
    the natural sound can still
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    come to the ear.
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    So if you still hear low
    frequencies, then you can
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    receive them naturally.
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    And the hearing aids only add
    what you can not hear.
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    This is called open
    hearing aid.
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    And it has the advantage that
    you still hear natural sounds,
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    which is really nice if you're
    really sort of an audiophile
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    person that likes to
    listen to music.
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    And so the first thing you do
    is actually choose that one.
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    Yes.
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    I think in the last
    two centuries,
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    hearing aids got digital.
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    And with that, they come with a
    lot of new features that you
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    couldn't do with analog
    hearing aids.
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    And right now, they
    are standard in
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    most first world countries.
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    And the most important thing is
    that they can analyze the
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    situation and react to it
    instantly, since they have
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    signal processing in it much
    more sophisticated than analog
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    hearing aids did.
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    Coming back to the audiogram,
    this is actually a feature
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    that can also be done by
    analog hearing aids.
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    I don't know in what
    extent, actually.
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    So if you have a look at this
    audiogram and only consider
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    one frequency band, like for
    four kilohertz, here the
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    hearing loss is between
    60 and 90 decibels.
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    Over 90 decibels, it
    gets too loud.
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    And the input of the environment
    still has the
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    whole range.
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    So the hearing aid has to map
    0 to 130 decibels to this
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    small area between 60 and 90.
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    It can not just amplify
    everything,
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    because that will hurt.
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    And this is called
    compression.
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    This should not be mistaken
    with compression in audio
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    files like MP3 or something.
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    It's a little bit different.
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    And if you have a look at the
    software that is used to
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    adjust hearing aids,
    it looks like that.
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    This controls here at
    the amplification.
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    And this here reduces
    the maximum level.
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    So my hearing aids can, at
    maximum, do 108 decibels.
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    And if you have minus 12, you
    just subtract it from that.
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    This has the problem that, if you
    compress it, the volume
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    gets increased and decreased
    all the time.
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    And this can actually make it
    harder to understand speech,
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    because the hearing aid is
    adjusting all the time.
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    And so to avoid that, they don't
    compress every time.
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    So the first area here is
    linearly amplified.
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    And only after a certain level,
    they start compressing.
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    And this is called knee point.
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    So they usually try to avoid
    compressing the speech signal
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    and only something above that.
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    And hearing adjusting software,
    it looks like that.
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    This is actually an example
    only from Siemens.
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    Every branch has their
    own adjusting
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    software or tuning software.
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    So this is just an example.
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    So here you have the knee point
    in the first row and the
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    factor by what it
    is compressed.
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    And the third row is a
    factor regarding how
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    fast it should react.
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    So within one syllable, it's
    adjusted to the right volume.
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    Ah, OK.
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    The problem is what do you do
    when your hearing loss is so
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    bad that the red and the blue
    curve actually meet each other
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    or the blue curve goes
    all the way down?
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    And this is actually a problem
    because then you can not do
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    compression any more, at least
    not in the original sense.
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    So this is a simplified
    audiogram.
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    This is the area that is dead.
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    So instead of compressing in
    one frequency band, you
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    compress the frequencies.
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    So you reserve a part of
    the still alive hearing
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    frequencies and map it there.
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    This is called frequency
    compression.
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    And it works only if you have
    closed hearing aids, meaning
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    those where you can not hear
    natural sound any more, where
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    the ear canal is really blocked
    by the hearing aid,
  • 17:17 - 17:20
    because, otherwise, it would
    be really confusing.
  • 17:20 - 17:23
    And this is actually offered by
    only one brand right now,
  • 17:23 - 17:26
    by a company called Phonak.
  • 17:26 - 17:33
    And it's actually quite hard
    to get used to that.
  • 17:33 - 17:37
    The brain has to adjust to that
    for a very long time.
  • 17:37 - 17:37
    What I heard.
  • 17:37 - 17:40
    I mean, I don't have this.
  • 17:40 - 17:43
    But still, it's interesting
    that they try
  • 17:43 - 17:46
    to do it like that.
  • 17:46 - 17:49
    A very common problem with
    hearing aids is feedback
  • 17:49 - 17:51
    loops, especially if you
    have open hearing aids.
  • 17:51 - 17:55
    Then it can happen that the
    hearing aid captures its own
  • 17:55 - 17:58
    sound and amplifies it a lot.
  • 17:58 - 18:01
    There is just this squeaking,
    what you get when you get too
  • 18:01 - 18:02
    close to them.
  • 18:02 - 18:04
    And this is really annoying.
  • 18:04 - 18:06
    It happens every time
    something gets
  • 18:06 - 18:08
    close to your ears.
  • 18:08 - 18:11
    It can simply be hair,
    wearing open.
  • 18:11 - 18:12
    Or you put on a hat.
  • 18:12 - 18:15
    Or you hold a telephone handle
    next to your ear.
  • 18:15 - 18:17
    Or you just want to lie
    down on the sofa.
  • 18:17 - 18:21
    Or especially when you hug
    someone, you start squeaking.
  • 18:21 - 18:23
    Like you give bionic feedback.
  • 18:23 - 18:25
    [LAUGHTER]
  • 18:25 - 18:29
    HELGA VELROYEN: Yeah, this is
    really, really annoying.
  • 18:29 - 18:31
    And what the hearing aids
    do, they try to
  • 18:31 - 18:33
    detect feedback loops.
  • 18:33 - 18:36
    So they look for clear
    sinus signals.
  • 18:36 - 18:41
    And when they detect one, they
    send an un-hearable flag.
  • 18:41 - 18:42
    So oh, I detected one.
  • 18:42 - 18:47
    And then the affected
    frequencies get damped until
  • 18:47 - 18:50
    it doesn't squeak any more.
  • 18:50 - 18:51
    They can adapt in real time.
  • 18:51 - 18:54
    So it actually works
    really fast,
  • 18:54 - 18:55
    but it's still hear-able.
  • 18:55 - 19:00
    So the problems with that is
    that music contains clear
  • 19:00 - 19:01
    sinus signals.
  • 19:01 - 19:05
    And those get then damped,
    which make your music
  • 19:05 - 19:09
    experience a lot worse.
  • 19:09 - 19:13
    And also the damp frequencies
    can be in the speech banana.
  • 19:13 - 19:16
    And then that means whenever you
    put on a hat, then you get
  • 19:16 - 19:17
    a feedback loop.
  • 19:17 - 19:18
    Then the frequencies
    get damped.
  • 19:18 - 19:23
    And then you can not understand
    anyone any more.
  • 19:23 - 19:25
    Analog hearing aids did not have
    a measure against that.
  • 19:25 - 19:28
    So this is something that is
    clearly new with the digital
  • 19:28 - 19:30
    hearing aids.
  • 19:30 - 19:32
    The screenshot here
    is also taken
  • 19:32 - 19:34
    from the tuning software.
  • 19:34 - 19:37
    When you have tuned your hearing
    aid, you can make a
  • 19:37 - 19:40
    feedback loop test, where you
    place a lot of different
  • 19:40 - 19:44
    sounds and tries if it detects
    the feedback loop.
  • 19:44 - 19:49
    And then it reduces the maximum
    power of the output of
  • 19:49 - 19:51
    your hearing aid.
  • 19:51 - 19:53
    That means you spend hours
    tuning your hearing aid, and
  • 19:53 - 19:55
    then everything gets
    reduced by that.
  • 19:58 - 20:01
    A very common problem for people
    with hearing impairment
  • 20:01 - 20:04
    is the cocktail party problem.
  • 20:04 - 20:07
    This is when you're in an
    acoustic setting where a lot
  • 20:07 - 20:10
    of people are talking and you
    have some background noise.
  • 20:10 - 20:11
    And then someone is
    talking to you.
  • 20:11 - 20:14
    And you have really problems to
    figure out the person that
  • 20:14 - 20:16
    is talking to you.
  • 20:16 - 20:18
    And there are several
    factors in that.
  • 20:18 - 20:22
    And hearing aids react to
    that in several ways.
  • 20:22 - 20:26
    So first of all, directional
    hearing is impaired when you
  • 20:26 - 20:27
    have a hearing impairment.
  • 20:27 - 20:31
    The human ear uses two
    ears and the brain
  • 20:31 - 20:33
    to locate the sound.
  • 20:33 - 20:37
    And we use the pinna, that is
    actually the outer part of the
  • 20:37 - 20:41
    ear, ohrmuschel, in German.
  • 20:41 - 20:45
    If you have behind-ear hearing
    aids, of course, most of the
  • 20:45 - 20:47
    microphones and everything
    else is behind the ear.
  • 20:47 - 20:50
    So you can not use the pinna.
  • 20:50 - 20:52
    You have to simulate that
    in a different way.
  • 20:52 - 20:56
    And this is why both hearing
    aids have two microphones.
  • 20:56 - 21:00
    So you have four microphones
    in total, when you have a
  • 21:00 - 21:02
    hearing impairment
    in both ears.
  • 21:02 - 21:06
    And this way, they can detect
    if the sound comes
  • 21:06 - 21:08
    from front or back.
  • 21:08 - 21:13
    And they talk to each other, so
    they can also detect if the
  • 21:13 - 21:15
    source of the signal is
    right or left to you.
  • 21:18 - 21:23
    Additionally, they try to
    recognize the situation and
  • 21:23 - 21:27
    automatically focus on the
    person that is talking to you
  • 21:27 - 21:33
    and also to reduce the
    background noise in general.
  • 21:33 - 21:35
    The in-ear hearing aids I
    showed before, they, of
  • 21:35 - 21:38
    course, still can use the
    features of the pinna.
  • 21:40 - 21:44
    This is also a screenshot from
    the tuning software.
  • 21:44 - 21:46
    You can actually test
    your directional
  • 21:46 - 21:48
    hearing in real time.
  • 21:48 - 21:49
    So you can wear your
    hearing aids
  • 21:49 - 21:51
    connected to the software.
  • 21:51 - 21:56
    And then you can do something
    like that, and see if it's
  • 21:56 - 21:59
    recognized correctly.
  • 21:59 - 22:02
    It works, more or less,
    in a silent room.
  • 22:02 - 22:07
    But yeah, not in a
    cocktail party.
  • 22:07 - 22:12
    Yeah, generally, it's really
    hard to extract foreground
  • 22:12 - 22:17
    from background noise, because
    foreground noise has all the
  • 22:17 - 22:19
    high frequencies and background
    noise doesn't.
  • 22:19 - 22:23
    And if you don't hear high
    frequencies at all, everything
  • 22:23 - 22:28
    is one blob of sound.
  • 22:28 - 22:34
    Hearing aids help with that
    because they mostly focus on
  • 22:34 - 22:36
    high frequencies.
  • 22:36 - 22:38
    And they have filters
    to filter out
  • 22:38 - 22:40
    the background signal.
  • 22:40 - 22:44
    But actually, that doesn't
    really help so much, because
  • 22:44 - 22:48
    those situations, recognitions,
    they tend to
  • 22:48 - 22:49
    fail as well.
  • 22:49 - 22:52
    So sometimes it's likely that
    a person that is talking to
  • 22:52 - 22:56
    you gets faded out because it
    is considered as noise.
  • 22:56 - 22:57
    [LAUGHTER]
  • 22:57 - 23:01
    HELGA VELROYEN: But sometimes
    they also work very well.
  • 23:01 - 23:05
    I mean, it's also coincidence.
  • 23:05 - 23:07
    Sometimes you're in a setting
    which has exactly the
  • 23:07 - 23:10
    situation that the hearing
    aid can work well with.
  • 23:10 - 23:14
    So sometimes you are here with
    a hearing person, actually,
  • 23:14 - 23:16
    and then you hear
    him quite well.
  • 23:16 - 23:18
    And then you start talking in
    a normal voice, because you
  • 23:18 - 23:20
    can actually understand
    everything.
  • 23:20 - 23:22
    And then that hearing
    person is asking
  • 23:22 - 23:23
    you to repeat a sentence.
  • 23:23 - 23:25
    This is really weird
    sometimes.
  • 23:28 - 23:31
    The tuning software for hearing
    aids also has a real
  • 23:31 - 23:34
    time monitor where you can
    see some parameters.
  • 23:34 - 23:38
    So you wear your hearing
    aids and then, for
  • 23:38 - 23:40
    example, listen to music.
  • 23:40 - 23:47
    And then you can see here the
    dark areas are where the
  • 23:47 - 23:50
    hearing aid actually
    started to work.
  • 23:50 - 23:52
    Below that, it doesn't
    need to amplify.
  • 23:52 - 23:56
    And the grey thing here
    is the speech banana.
  • 23:56 - 23:58
    So you see that it's optimized
    in a way that it starts
  • 23:58 - 24:01
    amplifying in the
    speech banana.
  • 24:01 - 24:05
    It also has the situation
    recognition
  • 24:05 - 24:06
    and different settings.
  • 24:06 - 24:09
    And one of those is
    music, actually.
  • 24:09 - 24:12
    I tried it with different
    types of music.
  • 24:12 - 24:14
    Actually, if you like heavy
    metal, you will never see
  • 24:14 - 24:15
    music here.
  • 24:15 - 24:16
    It's usually noise.
  • 24:16 - 24:22
    [LAUGHTER]
  • 24:22 - 24:23
    HELGA VELROYEN: A problem
    with hearing aids
  • 24:23 - 24:25
    is humidity, actually.
  • 24:25 - 24:27
    So most hearing aids
    are not waterproof.
  • 24:27 - 24:32
    That doesn't sound so bad, but
    actually, a lot of things are
  • 24:32 - 24:33
    related to that.
  • 24:33 - 24:37
    So that means no swimming with
    friends, no pool parties, no
  • 24:37 - 24:40
    water sports where you'll
    have to talk to someone.
  • 24:40 - 24:42
    Sweat is a problem, especially
    for people
  • 24:42 - 24:44
    who do a lot of sports.
  • 24:44 - 24:46
    No audio books in the bathtub.
  • 24:46 - 24:47
    No heavy rain.
  • 24:47 - 24:50
    So if you go to an open air
    concert and it starts raining,
  • 24:50 - 24:53
    you will really have to
    take care of that.
  • 24:53 - 24:58
    Also, just like wet hair, when
    you go out of the shower, you
  • 24:58 - 25:01
    have to wait until your hair is
    dry until you can put your
  • 25:01 - 25:03
    hearing aids in again.
  • 25:03 - 25:08
    A very recent development is
    that Phonak also offers
  • 25:08 - 25:10
    hearing aids that are waterproof
    or water-resistant.
  • 25:13 - 25:16
    They claim that you can hold it
    under water for 30 minutes,
  • 25:16 - 25:21
    and then there will be no
    irreparable damage.
  • 25:21 - 25:22
    I'm not really sure
    what that means.
  • 25:22 - 25:24
    So I guess you probably
    have to dry it.
  • 25:24 - 25:26
    [LAUGHTER]
  • 25:26 - 25:30
    HELGA VELROYEN: Or if you have
    to give it into repair for
  • 25:30 - 25:32
    weeks until you get it back.
  • 25:32 - 25:35
    Oh yeah, by the way, you don't
    have a spare hearing aid.
  • 25:35 - 25:38
    So whenever your hearing aids
    break, you have to go to an
  • 25:38 - 25:42
    audiologist. And you get spare
    hearing aids, which is like,
  • 25:42 - 25:44
    when you drive a Porsche,
    you get a tractor.
  • 25:44 - 25:49
    And also, audiologists have
    opening hours for the elderly.
  • 25:49 - 25:52
    So if your hearing aids break
    on Friday night, you have to
  • 25:52 - 25:54
    wait until Monday until you
    actually can hear again.
  • 25:57 - 26:01
    Yeah, those were the important
    features of hearing aids.
  • 26:01 - 26:04
    But there is some peripheral
    hardware that I
  • 26:04 - 26:06
    would like to present.
  • 26:06 - 26:11
    So there are different
    interfaces for which you can
  • 26:11 - 26:13
    use to plug into your
    hearing aids.
  • 26:13 - 26:16
    So the oldest one is the direct
    audio input, which is
  • 26:16 - 26:18
    just here, a cable.
  • 26:18 - 26:21
    So it looks like that.
  • 26:21 - 26:24
    And it's usually connected to
    the hearing aid with some sort
  • 26:24 - 26:26
    of shoe, which looks
    like that.
  • 26:26 - 26:31
    And it has the pros and cons of
    cables, of course, if you
  • 26:31 - 26:32
    like being on the leash.
  • 26:32 - 26:35
    But you also have no
    interference with other
  • 26:35 - 26:37
    wireless stuff.
  • 26:37 - 26:40
    It's usually used to plug
    something else in, for
  • 26:40 - 26:43
    example, FM or Bluetooth
    adaptors.
  • 26:43 - 26:48
    And yeah, this is pretty
    old technology,
  • 26:48 - 26:49
    but it's still around.
  • 26:49 - 26:52
    Although, for really small ones,
    the plug is actually too
  • 26:52 - 26:56
    big, so they leave
    it out there.
  • 26:56 - 27:01
    Another very common technology
    is FM systems. You can buy
  • 27:01 - 27:02
    those from several vendors.
  • 27:02 - 27:05
    You have receivers
    and transmitters.
  • 27:05 - 27:08
    They have different setups like
    for a meeting, that you
  • 27:08 - 27:11
    can put a microphone on the
    meeting table and hear all the
  • 27:11 - 27:15
    participants talk, or for
    lecture halls like that, that
  • 27:15 - 27:18
    you can connect the microphone
    to the transmitter
  • 27:18 - 27:20
    and listen to it.
  • 27:22 - 27:26
    There are some standards,
    but most receivers and
  • 27:26 - 27:29
    transmitters don't work with
    others from other companies.
  • 27:29 - 27:34
    But at least, if you plug them
    in with these direct audio
  • 27:34 - 27:38
    input, you can choose an FM
    system from a different vendor
  • 27:38 - 27:41
    than from your hearing aids.
  • 27:41 - 27:44
    The sound quality is said
    to be quite good.
  • 27:44 - 27:45
    I actually could never try it.
  • 27:45 - 27:51
    But I heard that, actually, in
    schools, hearing impaired
  • 27:51 - 27:55
    students listen to music while
    actually they should listen to
  • 27:55 - 27:56
    the teacher.
  • 27:56 - 27:59
    And teachers call the
    audiologists and ask, could
  • 27:59 - 28:00
    you make this stop?
  • 28:00 - 28:02
    They don't listen to
    what I am saying.
  • 28:06 - 28:09
    A really common problem for
    hearing impairment is calling
  • 28:09 - 28:12
    on the phone.
  • 28:12 - 28:15
    The problem is, first of all,
    most people do lip reading.
  • 28:15 - 28:18
    So they don't rely only
    on the audio input.
  • 28:18 - 28:20
    We use the visuals as well.
  • 28:20 - 28:23
    And of course, you don't
    have that on the
  • 28:23 - 28:24
    radio or the telephone.
  • 28:24 - 28:27
    And also, for technical reasons,
    the frequency range
  • 28:27 - 28:30
    of the phone line is reduced.
  • 28:30 - 28:35
    In Germany, it's like 300
    hertz to 3.4 kilohertz.
  • 28:35 - 28:39
    That's the blue box
    in this audiogram.
  • 28:39 - 28:41
    Also the background noise that
    you have in the room where you
  • 28:41 - 28:45
    are talking on the phone, it
    does have the full range.
  • 28:45 - 28:47
    So you get, actually, background
    noise in a better
  • 28:47 - 28:50
    quality than the signal from
    your person that you're
  • 28:50 - 28:52
    talking to.
  • 28:52 - 28:56
    Then, often, the signal is
    altered and unnatural.
  • 28:56 - 28:58
    Sometimes you have
    bad reception.
  • 28:58 - 29:01
    And also, you hear it only in
    one ear if you just use a
  • 29:01 - 29:03
    usual telephone.
  • 29:03 - 29:05
    And if you hold it to your ear,
    you get a feedback loop.
  • 29:05 - 29:07
    So a lot of things make
    it really annoying
  • 29:07 - 29:08
    to talk on the phone.
  • 29:08 - 29:11
    And there are some technical
    solutions for that.
  • 29:11 - 29:15
    The most old one is the
    telecoil or T-coil.
  • 29:19 - 29:21
    And the source is connected
    to an induction loop.
  • 29:21 - 29:25
    And you take off the
    electromagnetics.
  • 29:25 - 29:27
    And this is from the telecoil.
  • 29:27 - 29:31
    It's there in the picture,
    a really small antenna.
  • 29:31 - 29:35
    And there are different setups
    for the induction loop.
  • 29:35 - 29:38
    So there are adapters that
    have the induction loop
  • 29:38 - 29:40
    actually used to hang
    it around your neck.
  • 29:40 - 29:43
    Or there are induction
    loops installed in
  • 29:43 - 29:44
    lecture halls like this.
  • 29:44 - 29:48
    I don't know if there
    is one here.
  • 29:48 - 29:51
    It's widely used in Europe,
    especially in Scandinavia.
  • 29:51 - 29:54
    They even have laws where every
    public building has to
  • 29:54 - 30:00
    have one or these public
    lecture halls.
  • 30:00 - 30:02
    You have some pros and
    cons, of course.
  • 30:02 - 30:04
    You have interference.
  • 30:04 - 30:08
    When you move inside the
    induction loop, the level of
  • 30:08 - 30:10
    volume changes.
  • 30:10 - 30:13
    So it's nothing where you should
    dance or something.
  • 30:13 - 30:15
    But if you sit still
    in a theater or
  • 30:15 - 30:17
    something, it works.
  • 30:17 - 30:20
    Installing an induction
    loop in a lecture
  • 30:20 - 30:21
    hall is quite expensive.
  • 30:21 - 30:24
    But there are actually
    DIY kits available.
  • 30:24 - 30:26
    It's quite common that people
    build their own ones.
  • 30:29 - 30:31
    And telephones also have
    an induction loop,
  • 30:31 - 30:33
    even very new ones.
  • 30:33 - 30:37
    So all telephones which are
    called hearing aid compatible,
  • 30:37 - 30:39
    they have an induction loop
    that can be used with a
  • 30:39 - 30:42
    telecoil, even the new
    iPhone, for example.
  • 30:45 - 30:46
    And then there's Bluetooth.
  • 30:48 - 30:52
    There are, right now, no hearing
    aids that can do
  • 30:52 - 30:55
    Bluetooth directly because,
    mostly, of the batteries.
  • 30:55 - 31:00
    Usually, hearing aid batteries
    last one week to 10 days.
  • 31:00 - 31:02
    But with Bluetooth, I think
    they would only
  • 31:02 - 31:04
    last a couple of hours.
  • 31:04 - 31:08
    Although there are no
    Bluetooth-enabled hearing aids
  • 31:08 - 31:12
    on the market right now,
    I've heard that they
  • 31:12 - 31:14
    are working on that.
  • 31:14 - 31:17
    Siemens is located in Erlangen,
    which is not that
  • 31:17 - 31:18
    far from Munich.
  • 31:18 - 31:24
    So I have heard about people
    who would test prototypes.
  • 31:24 - 31:29
    Right now, you have to use a
    Bluetooth adapter to use your
  • 31:29 - 31:30
    hearing aids, attach that.
  • 31:30 - 31:34
    And there's different
    versions of it.
  • 31:34 - 31:37
    So this is an example
    of Phonak.
  • 31:37 - 31:39
    They built a really
    nice thing.
  • 31:39 - 31:42
    This piece, you hang it
    around your neck.
  • 31:42 - 31:45
    And the ribbon is actually the
    induction loop that is used
  • 31:45 - 31:46
    with a telecoil.
  • 31:46 - 31:51
    And to this gadget you can
    connect several things.
  • 31:51 - 31:54
    It has direct audio input, which
    you can use to plug in
  • 31:54 - 31:55
    an FM system.
  • 31:55 - 31:58
    It also has aux-in that
    you can directly
  • 31:58 - 32:00
    plug in your MP3 player.
  • 32:00 - 32:02
    And it has Bluetooth.
  • 32:02 - 32:04
    It actually also has a warning
    to combine this with
  • 32:04 - 32:06
    pacemakers.
  • 32:06 - 32:11
    And I have a friend who has a
    pacemaker and this thing.
  • 32:11 - 32:12
    He just ignored the warning.
  • 32:12 - 32:13
    But I think this is--
  • 32:13 - 32:13
    [LAUGHTER]
  • 32:13 - 32:17
    HELGA VELROYEN: Luckily,
    he's still alive.
  • 32:17 - 32:19
    And I think this is a good
    example for what we are
  • 32:19 - 32:20
    heading in the future.
  • 32:20 - 32:22
    We will get more and
    more cyborgs.
  • 32:22 - 32:27
    And I doubt that every hearing
    aid vendor is trying their
  • 32:27 - 32:30
    adapters with every pacemaker
    there is.
  • 32:30 - 32:33
    So we will get a lot
    of compatibility
  • 32:33 - 32:35
    problems in the future.
  • 32:35 - 32:39
    And if this really works, it
    might be an option to kill
  • 32:39 - 32:41
    people really, really
    silently, remotely.
  • 32:41 - 32:41
    [LAUGHTER]
  • 32:41 - 32:45
    HELGA VELROYEN: I mean, you
    have to think of that.
  • 32:45 - 32:48
    [LAUGHS]
  • 32:48 - 32:51
    Siemens' solution was, of
    course, not to use any of the
  • 32:51 - 32:52
    existing standards.
  • 32:52 - 32:54
    Just build something new.
  • 32:54 - 32:54
    [LAUGHTER]
  • 32:54 - 32:57
    [APPLAUSE]
  • 32:57 - 33:01
    HELGA VELROYEN: So they built
    something called Siemens Tek.
  • 33:01 - 33:04
    And it hooks Bluetooth to the
    phone, or to whatever you're
  • 33:04 - 33:09
    connected to, and some wireless
    NFC protocol to the
  • 33:09 - 33:11
    hearing aids.
  • 33:11 - 33:13
    So the hearing aids also have
    a small antenna in it, which
  • 33:13 - 33:16
    looks kind of like a telecoil,
    but it is not.
  • 33:16 - 33:19
    And it is not compatible to
    anything the telecoil is
  • 33:19 - 33:20
    compatible to.
  • 33:20 - 33:22
    So you can only use
    it with this.
  • 33:22 - 33:25
    And it has a signal around
    3.3 megahertz.
  • 33:25 - 33:26
    You can see it on
    that picture.
  • 33:26 - 33:28
    I tried that.
  • 33:28 - 33:32
    And it's compatible with
    every Bluetooth
  • 33:32 - 33:33
    speaking device, in theory.
  • 33:33 - 33:36
    And practically, you have to
    check it with everything.
  • 33:36 - 33:39
    So whenever I get a phone at
    work or whatever, I have to
  • 33:39 - 33:41
    check if it will
    actually work.
  • 33:41 - 33:44
    So of course, it works best with
    Siemens mobile phones.
  • 33:44 - 33:47
    But you can imagine
    how old they are.
  • 33:47 - 33:53
    And yeah, they also are supposed
    to work with land
  • 33:53 - 33:54
    line phones.
  • 33:54 - 33:59
    But on their websites, they say,
    I think, it was only to
  • 33:59 - 34:03
    Siemens land line phones,
    of course.
  • 34:03 - 34:08
    And other than that, they don't
    guarantee that it works.
  • 34:08 - 34:12
    It comes with an additional
    transmitter that you can
  • 34:12 - 34:15
    connect to your source that
    is more far away.
  • 34:15 - 34:19
    The Tek itself has a
    range of one meter.
  • 34:19 - 34:23
    So if you want to have a flat
    screen TV, I don't know, five
  • 34:23 - 34:26
    meters away from you, you could
    use the transmitter.
  • 34:26 - 34:31
    This thing costs about 400 euros
    for just turning one
  • 34:31 - 34:33
    wireless protocol
    into the other.
  • 34:33 - 34:35
    And no insurance is going
    to pay for that.
  • 34:35 - 34:39
    So you have to pay for
    this on your own.
  • 34:39 - 34:42
    If you have a generous
    employer, you might
  • 34:42 - 34:45
    get some for it.
  • 34:45 - 34:48
    They also released a
    new version of it.
  • 34:48 - 34:50
    This is on the right
    side here.
  • 34:50 - 34:51
    It's called miniTek.
  • 34:51 - 34:54
    And it has, actually, less
    features than the old one
  • 34:54 - 34:57
    because they removed
    the display.
  • 34:57 - 34:59
    And they still want 400
    euros for that.
  • 34:59 - 35:03
    And you don't get a discount
    if you bought the old one.
  • 35:03 - 35:07
    Well, but I guess that's
    marketing.
  • 35:07 - 35:08
    This is the sender with
    the transmitter.
  • 35:08 - 35:11
    So you connect it to the
    computer, and you wear the Tek
  • 35:11 - 35:13
    around your head.
  • 35:13 - 35:16
    It also has some patents for
    the different programs. So
  • 35:16 - 35:19
    hearing aids have different
    programs that you can change
  • 35:19 - 35:23
    manually so that you have one
    for listening to music, or one
  • 35:23 - 35:30
    for your living room, and one
    for outside, or whatever.
  • 35:30 - 35:32
    Of course, I took that
    apart as well.
  • 35:32 - 35:35
    [LAUGHTER]
  • 35:35 - 35:38
    HELGA VELROYEN: You have to
    couple this Tek with the
  • 35:38 - 35:40
    tuning software of
    hearing aids.
  • 35:40 - 35:43
    So there is some kind of
    authentification via a
  • 35:43 - 35:45
    7-character serial number.
  • 35:45 - 35:49
    I doubt that there is actually
    a lot of encryption in there,
  • 35:49 - 35:51
    because the latency
    is crucial.
  • 35:51 - 35:53
    Bluetooth already
    has a latency.
  • 35:53 - 35:55
    And you don't want to
    add that much to it.
  • 35:55 - 35:59
    But I also tried to use a
    different Tek with my hearing
  • 35:59 - 36:00
    aids, and it actually
    doesn't work.
  • 36:00 - 36:04
    So some kind of authentication
    must be in there.
  • 36:04 - 36:06
    But if you're too lazy
    to hack that, you can
  • 36:06 - 36:08
    still hack the Bluetooth.
  • 36:08 - 36:12
    There are lots of talks
    about that here.
  • 36:12 - 36:14
    And of course, the PIN is 000.
  • 36:14 - 36:19
    And something that is not
    directly about the Tek, but
  • 36:19 - 36:22
    the hearing aids also
    communicate with each other.
  • 36:22 - 36:24
    So if I switch the program--
    there's actually a small
  • 36:24 - 36:25
    switch on my hearing aids--
  • 36:25 - 36:29
    if I switch between the programs
    on one ear, it also
  • 36:29 - 36:30
    tells that to the other ear.
  • 36:30 - 36:33
    And that one doesn't use
    authentification.
  • 36:33 - 36:36
    I have heard that, when people
    have the same model of hearing
  • 36:36 - 36:37
    aids and they're close to each
    other-- for example, this
  • 36:37 - 36:40
    happens when couples buy
    the same hearing aids--
  • 36:40 - 36:43
    then you switch your program,
    and your spouse also gets the
  • 36:43 - 36:44
    program switched.
  • 36:44 - 36:45
    [LAUGHTER]
  • 36:45 - 36:48
    HELGA VELROYEN: And this can
    actually only be changed by
  • 36:48 - 36:50
    the audiologist by changing
    the channel.
  • 36:50 - 36:54
    So they have, like for wireless,
    different channels.
  • 36:54 - 36:56
    And you'd set it to
    a different one.
  • 36:56 - 36:58
    That's the security
    about that.
  • 37:00 - 37:04
    Yeah, hacking.
  • 37:04 - 37:06
    When I started to dig into
    that topic, I was really
  • 37:06 - 37:10
    disappointed that there is
    not very much hacking.
  • 37:10 - 37:13
    So there's one forum called
    hearingaidhacks.
  • 37:13 - 37:15
    livejournal.com.
  • 37:15 - 37:19
    This is the biggest
    one I found.
  • 37:19 - 37:24
    But if you go through the
    entries, it's mostly people
  • 37:24 - 37:28
    asking for technical advice,
    So, I bought this and this
  • 37:28 - 37:28
    hearing aid.
  • 37:28 - 37:32
    What peripheral hardware
    can I use with it?
  • 37:32 - 37:36
    I guess the reason for
    that is that the
  • 37:36 - 37:37
    devices are really expensive.
  • 37:37 - 37:41
    And the warranty and the
    insurances are really not that
  • 37:41 - 37:43
    nice if you break your
    own hearing aids.
  • 37:43 - 37:46
    And you still have this problem
    that audiologists
  • 37:46 - 37:48
    don't have opening hours.
  • 37:48 - 37:51
    They can not be used by people
    who still have a life.
  • 37:51 - 37:55
    So people are a little resistant
    to actually hack the
  • 37:55 - 37:57
    hearing aids.
  • 37:57 - 38:00
    But there is a little hacking
    on the peripheral hardware.
  • 38:00 - 38:05
    I will show two examples
    for that.
  • 38:05 - 38:08
    There's one guy called
    Gertlex who built his
  • 38:08 - 38:11
    own Bluetooth adapter.
  • 38:11 - 38:15
    And he posted this on Flickr,
    quite detailed.
  • 38:15 - 38:19
    And what you can see here, he
    used a Sony wireless Bluetooth
  • 38:19 - 38:24
    headset, and hacked it in a way
    where you can connect the
  • 38:24 - 38:28
    direct audio input cables
    from the hearing aids.
  • 38:28 - 38:31
    The picture here in the
    upper-right corner shows the
  • 38:31 - 38:33
    setup when he tested it.
  • 38:33 - 38:35
    So he actually didn't
    test it with his
  • 38:35 - 38:36
    original hearing aids.
  • 38:36 - 38:38
    He used an old one
    that he had.
  • 38:38 - 38:41
    And he even used an old MP3
    player because he was afraid
  • 38:41 - 38:43
    of frying that as well.
  • 38:43 - 38:50
    So this is the precaution that
    you have to do when you start
  • 38:50 - 38:52
    frying your hearing aids.
  • 38:52 - 38:55
    You can not only fry your
    hearing aids, you can also fry
  • 38:55 - 38:56
    your hearing even more.
  • 38:56 - 38:59
    So you should be careful.
  • 38:59 - 39:03
    And there's another guy who also
    made a Bluetooth adapter.
  • 39:03 - 39:11
    And he also took the DYI cables
    here, those shoes that
  • 39:11 - 39:16
    you use to connect them, and a
    Bluetooth mono thing here.
  • 39:16 - 39:21
    And this is actually the result,
    that you connect it
  • 39:21 - 39:23
    directly to the hearing aids.
  • 39:23 - 39:27
    He also provided some nice
    diagrams for that.
  • 39:27 - 39:30
    The slightly bigger scene is
    actually the self-tuning
  • 39:30 - 39:37
    scenes for hearing aids because,
    as I said, it's kind
  • 39:37 - 39:38
    of frustrating to get
    hearing aids.
  • 39:38 - 39:42
    You have to go to the
    audiologist a lot of times.
  • 39:42 - 39:44
    And he asks you, yeah,
    what's wrong?
  • 39:44 - 39:46
    And then you have to describe
    the situation.
  • 39:46 - 39:48
    But you're sitting in this
    silent cavern at the
  • 39:48 - 39:54
    audiologist, so the adjustment
    is not really done in
  • 39:54 - 39:56
    realistic circumstances.
  • 39:56 - 39:59
    And a lot of people get
    frustrated about that.
  • 39:59 - 40:03
    So they spend weeks tuning
    their hearing aids at the
  • 40:03 - 40:06
    audiologist. And still they're
    unhappy with it.
  • 40:06 - 40:09
    So they try to get the hardware
    and software that is
  • 40:09 - 40:11
    necessary for it.
  • 40:11 - 40:13
    And those are actually only
    sold to doctors and
  • 40:13 - 40:14
    acousticians or audiologists.
  • 40:17 - 40:19
    And they are not sold
    on eBay because
  • 40:19 - 40:20
    it is medical equipment.
  • 40:20 - 40:25
    And that is not supposed
    to be sold on eBay.
  • 40:25 - 40:31
    So you have to use
    other channels.
  • 40:31 - 40:34
    There's a black market for it.
  • 40:34 - 40:39
    It's kind of hard to put a price
    on that, but I've seen
  • 40:39 - 40:42
    offers for the hardware,
    which is called Hipro.
  • 40:42 - 40:45
    And there are different
    versions for
  • 40:45 - 40:48
    serial use via Bluetooth.
  • 40:48 - 40:50
    And it starts with a couple
    of hundred euros.
  • 40:50 - 40:52
    So you can imagine the pain
    that people have when they
  • 40:52 - 40:55
    already spent 5,000 euros
    for two hearing aids.
  • 40:55 - 40:59
    And then they spend even more
    money, because they want to
  • 40:59 - 41:02
    tune them themselves.
  • 41:02 - 41:05
    And there is this self-tuning
    scene.
  • 41:05 - 41:07
    And people really
    hack the system.
  • 41:07 - 41:12
    The effort for people who
    actually installed a fake
  • 41:12 - 41:16
    business, so they register a
    business for an audiologist to
  • 41:16 - 41:19
    buy this hardware and then
    stop the business again.
  • 41:19 - 41:23
    So there are actually people
    doing a lot of effort to get
  • 41:23 - 41:25
    this hardware and software.
  • 41:25 - 41:27
    But of course, then you have
    no customer support.
  • 41:27 - 41:30
    And when you fry your ears or
    your hearing aids, then it's
  • 41:30 - 41:32
    your own fault.
  • 41:32 - 41:33
    There's one exception.
  • 41:33 - 41:36
    In America, there's a hearing
    aid manufacturer called
  • 41:36 - 41:37
    America Hears.
  • 41:37 - 41:41
    They sell quite low-budget
    hearing aids, up to
  • 41:41 - 41:45
    $1,000, if I'm right.
  • 41:45 - 41:47
    Then you send in an audiogram
    of yours.
  • 41:47 - 41:52
    And they tune it at their place
    for the first time.
  • 41:52 - 41:56
    And then you can download the
    software and tune it a little
  • 41:56 - 41:59
    bit more at home.
  • 41:59 - 42:01
    Unfortunately, I've never
    seen that software.
  • 42:01 - 42:03
    You can only order
    it in the US.
  • 42:03 - 42:06
    But I would be interested to
    have a look at that as well,
  • 42:06 - 42:09
    if someone has channels
    for that.
  • 42:11 - 42:16
    Of course, some of this hardware
    ended up in my hands.
  • 42:16 - 42:20
    This is a serial Hipro.
  • 42:20 - 42:23
    This looks really fancy, like
    a modem from the '80s.
  • 42:23 - 42:27
    It's connected via serial.
  • 42:27 - 42:29
    And you connect the hearing
    aids to it.
  • 42:29 - 42:31
    I have some close-up
    pictures for that.
  • 42:31 - 42:36
    So you take out the battery and
    put on a small cable which
  • 42:36 - 42:40
    has a contact of the battery,
    the size of the battery, a
  • 42:40 - 42:41
    very flat cable.
  • 42:41 - 42:43
    And this is connected
    to a bigger cable.
  • 42:43 - 42:44
    And that is connected
    to the Hipro.
  • 42:47 - 42:51
    The Hipro is the same for nearly
    all hearing aid brands,
  • 42:51 - 42:55
    so you can use it for Siemens,
    and Phonak, and whatever.
  • 42:55 - 42:58
    But these small, flat cables,
    they are different for nearly
  • 42:58 - 43:00
    every hearing aid.
  • 43:00 - 43:05
    So if you try to buy this Hipro
    on the black market, you
  • 43:05 - 43:08
    also have to buy those cables.
  • 43:08 - 43:10
    There's also a Bluetooth
    version that also
  • 43:10 - 43:12
    ended up in my hands.
  • 43:12 - 43:13
    It looks like that.
  • 43:13 - 43:17
    And it has the advantage
    that you are not
  • 43:17 - 43:20
    connected to it via cable.
  • 43:20 - 43:22
    So you don't feel
    like on a leash.
  • 43:22 - 43:27
    And I haven't really
    used that much.
  • 43:27 - 43:30
    But this way, you could actually
    go outside and tune
  • 43:30 - 43:34
    it in the subway or at
    your office, because
  • 43:34 - 43:36
    you just need a laptop.
  • 43:36 - 43:38
    And it works without
    your powerful wire.
  • 43:44 - 43:46
    The tuning software, I showed
    you some excerpts from it.
  • 43:46 - 43:48
    This is just another
    screenshot.
  • 43:48 - 43:53
    On the right side here, you see
    the different programs. So
  • 43:53 - 43:56
    the universal one, here is one
    for music, and one for the
  • 43:56 - 43:59
    tech, if you work with that.
  • 44:02 - 44:06
    When I was playing with the
    tuning software, I found
  • 44:06 - 44:07
    something very interesting.
  • 44:07 - 44:09
    That it's actually
    spying on me.
  • 44:09 - 44:13
    So it locks some stuff
    and, for example,
  • 44:13 - 44:16
    how much I wear it.
  • 44:16 - 44:19
    Although I find 14 hours
    a day a little bit--
  • 44:19 - 44:23
    I think I'm awake, actually,
    longer than 14 hours.
  • 44:23 - 44:25
    But they use this, actually,
    because people come and
  • 44:25 - 44:27
    complain, yeah, this doesn't
    really work much.
  • 44:27 - 44:30
    And then they see they only wear
    it half an hour a day.
  • 44:30 - 44:32
    And so, of course, you can
    not get used to it
  • 44:32 - 44:33
    and adapt to it.
  • 44:33 - 44:36
    And you can also see what
    different programs are used.
  • 44:36 - 44:38
    So mostly I use the
    universal program.
  • 44:38 - 44:43
    And sometimes I have another one
    called universal that is
  • 44:43 - 44:46
    actually tuned to have
    less feedback loops.
  • 44:46 - 44:49
    That's the one I use when I put
    on a hat so that I still
  • 44:49 - 44:53
    hear a little bit, but don't
    have too many feedback loops.
  • 44:53 - 44:57
    And it also tracks how often I
    was in a noisy environment or
  • 44:57 - 44:58
    was listening to music.
  • 44:58 - 45:02
    And since I like to listen to
    heavy metal, this is actually
  • 45:02 - 45:04
    not correct.
  • 45:04 - 45:05
    Yeah, I found it really
    interesting
  • 45:05 - 45:06
    what you can see here.
  • 45:06 - 45:12
    And yeah, I hope that it doesn't
    record anything what I
  • 45:12 - 45:16
    talk about or what
    I listen to.
  • 45:16 - 45:19
    We have a little bit more time,
    so I will talk about the
  • 45:19 - 45:21
    cochlear implants, as well.
  • 45:21 - 45:26
    I mentioned that those are the
    ones that are half implanted
  • 45:26 - 45:30
    in the head and also have
    an external device.
  • 45:34 - 45:37
    This shows this part
    is implanted.
  • 45:37 - 45:42
    And we have a wire that is
    drawn into the cochlea.
  • 45:42 - 45:45
    And it's connected
    to the nerve.
  • 45:45 - 45:47
    So actually, the whole
    ear is circumvented.
  • 45:47 - 45:50
    Only the wire goes directly
    to the nerve and
  • 45:50 - 45:51
    then through the brain.
  • 45:51 - 45:56
    And cochlear implants are what
    I find really fascinating.
  • 45:56 - 45:58
    They really make deaf
    people hear.
  • 45:58 - 46:02
    It's only applied to people
    who have a really severe
  • 46:02 - 46:06
    hearing loss, like less
    than 20% or something.
  • 46:06 - 46:09
    So they hear only
    less than 20%.
  • 46:09 - 46:14
    Of course, it's a surgery
    to insert that.
  • 46:14 - 46:17
    It destroys any remaining
    hearing, because you poke a
  • 46:17 - 46:18
    wire into the nerve.
  • 46:18 - 46:21
    So everything else
    is gone then.
  • 46:21 - 46:23
    It can also affect
    other nerves.
  • 46:23 - 46:26
    So I have a friend who
    had this surgery.
  • 46:26 - 46:32
    And they touched some taste
    nerves as well, so everything
  • 46:32 - 46:33
    tastes as metallic.
  • 46:33 - 46:34
    It was kind of weird.
  • 46:34 - 46:37
    But it actually went
    away after a while.
  • 46:37 - 46:39
    The signal is really
    different.
  • 46:41 - 46:44
    The brain has to adjust
    to that very long.
  • 46:44 - 46:46
    There are actually hearing
    courses after you get this
  • 46:46 - 46:48
    surgery and the device
    is started.
  • 46:48 - 46:52
    You have to really get used
    to that, because it's like
  • 46:52 - 46:56
    electrical signals directly
    [? intruded. ?]
  • 46:56 - 47:00
    And the technology of this
    device, this is usually behind
  • 47:00 - 47:02
    the usual hearing aid
    technology, because it has to
  • 47:02 - 47:07
    be well-tested before you put
    something into your head.
  • 47:07 - 47:10
    And like for the other hearing
    aids, there are not many
  • 47:10 - 47:14
    standards, no interoperability
    between the brands.
  • 47:14 - 47:19
    So if you decide to take the
    cochlear implant of one brand,
  • 47:19 - 47:22
    you can never switch
    to another one.
  • 47:22 - 47:26
    So yeah, you have to
    think that through.
  • 47:26 - 47:33
    I have an example
    of how it sounds
  • 47:33 - 47:36
    with a cochlear implant.
  • 47:36 - 47:38
    So it sounds kind of spooky.
  • 47:38 - 47:42
    It starts with a normal sample
    that everyone can hear it.
  • 47:42 - 47:45
    And then they have different
    channels and reduce the number
  • 47:45 - 47:46
    of channels.
  • 47:46 - 47:48
    And then it gets less
    and less hear-able.
  • 47:48 - 47:48
    [AUDIO PLAYBACK]
  • 47:48 - 47:50
    -A boy fell from the window.
  • 47:50 - 47:52
    A boy fell from the window.
  • 47:52 - 47:54
    A boy fell from the window.
  • 47:54 - 47:56
    A boy fell from the window.
  • 47:56 - 47:59
    A boy fell from the window.
  • 47:59 - 48:01
    A boy fell from the window.
  • 48:01 - 48:01
    [UNINTELLIGIBLE].
  • 48:01 - 48:02
    [END AUDIO PLAYBACK]
  • 48:02 - 48:05
    HELGA VELROYEN: Yeah, so you
    can imagine that it takes a
  • 48:05 - 48:07
    while until you actually can
    understand speech with that.
  • 48:10 - 48:13
    Yeah, I'm coming to an end.
  • 48:13 - 48:18
    So there are a lot of things
    that I want from the industry.
  • 48:18 - 48:20
    First of all, better service.
  • 48:20 - 48:23
    And that goes into the
    consideration of young
  • 48:23 - 48:27
    people's needs, because you can
    feel it every time, that
  • 48:27 - 48:30
    everything is designed
    for the elderly.
  • 48:30 - 48:32
    They don't consider that people
    actually have to work,
  • 48:32 - 48:35
    and have a life, and actually
    want to go out and talk to
  • 48:35 - 48:41
    people, and not only in a
    silent room one-on-one.
  • 48:41 - 48:45
    And there are a lot of things
    where you miss the support
  • 48:45 - 48:49
    when you have hearing aids and
    are not 60 or something.
  • 48:49 - 48:53
    Generally, I'd like to have
    better signal processing.
  • 48:53 - 48:58
    Of course, regarding the size,
    they already did a really good
  • 48:58 - 49:01
    job, if you consider what
    they do already.
  • 49:01 - 49:04
    But actually, the cocktail party
    problem is not solved.
  • 49:04 - 49:06
    So a lot of people who have
    hearing aids and then who also
  • 49:06 - 49:09
    have really good hearing aids,
    they just avoid social
  • 49:09 - 49:10
    situations.
  • 49:10 - 49:11
    So they don't go out.
  • 49:11 - 49:13
    They don't go to the Congress.
  • 49:13 - 49:15
    They don't go to parties.
  • 49:15 - 49:20
    So whenever you would ask them
    to go for dinner, they'd
  • 49:20 - 49:23
    really carefully choose the
    restaurant, if it's a more or
  • 49:23 - 49:27
    less crowded one so you can
    understand people, actually.
  • 49:27 - 49:29
    What I'm really missing
    is some standards.
  • 49:29 - 49:33
    It would be even cool if it was
    open standards, because,
  • 49:33 - 49:36
    this way, you feel really
    trapped as a patient.
  • 49:39 - 49:44
    There's this saying, "If you
    can't open it, you don't own
  • 49:44 - 49:49
    it." And I really miss that
    when having hearing aids.
  • 49:49 - 49:53
    So I have a lot of ideas
    how to improve that.
  • 49:53 - 49:56
    But I don't see most of it
    coming in the next 500 years,
  • 49:56 - 50:00
    because the companies are not
    very open source friendly.
  • 50:00 - 50:03
    So what would be really cool,
    to have something like a
  • 50:03 - 50:07
    hearing aid app market that you
    can download the newest
  • 50:07 - 50:13
    feature for a background noise
    remover or something, and that
  • 50:13 - 50:17
    you can write you own filters
    and share those, and
  • 50:17 - 50:22
    especially exchange those
    between different brands.
  • 50:22 - 50:25
    And the funny thing is, when
    I was browsing through the
  • 50:25 - 50:29
    websites of the vendors, the
    marketing of some hearing aid
  • 50:29 - 50:31
    companies actually got
    this idea already.
  • 50:31 - 50:35
    They just call their
    features apps.
  • 50:35 - 50:37
    So this is just an enumeration
    of what the
  • 50:37 - 50:39
    hearing aid can do.
  • 50:39 - 50:40
    But they just call it app.
  • 50:40 - 50:42
    [LAUGHTER]
  • 50:42 - 50:45
    HELGA VELROYEN: And it would
    be really cool if there was
  • 50:45 - 50:45
    something like that.
  • 50:45 - 50:49
    You can exchange those.
  • 50:49 - 50:53
    What I would also like, hearing
    aids do not use
  • 50:53 - 50:55
    reoccurring situations.
  • 50:55 - 50:58
    Most people have a rather
    steady lifestyle.
  • 50:58 - 51:00
    You live in the same
    apartment.
  • 51:00 - 51:02
    Most of the time, you work
    in the same office.
  • 51:02 - 51:06
    You take the same subway
    to work every day.
  • 51:06 - 51:10
    And hearing aids are only tuned
    for a general situation.
  • 51:10 - 51:16
    But I think signal processing
    works well the more you know
  • 51:16 - 51:17
    about the surrounding.
  • 51:17 - 51:20
    So it would be really cool if
    you have one program for the
  • 51:20 - 51:24
    office and one program for at
    home and one for the journey
  • 51:24 - 51:25
    to the office.
  • 51:25 - 51:31
    And we carry something around
    that knows all this.
  • 51:31 - 51:34
    I mean, we have smartphones, and
    they have a calendar, and
  • 51:34 - 51:35
    it shows where you are.
  • 51:35 - 51:39
    And it knows the people that
    you're talking to and even if
  • 51:39 - 51:41
    you talk to them on the phone.
  • 51:41 - 51:44
    So there could be parameters
    for each person
  • 51:44 - 51:45
    that you talk to.
  • 51:45 - 51:48
    And that could be saved on the
    smartphone, if there wasn't
  • 51:48 - 51:52
    enough space in the memory in
    the hearing aids themselves.
  • 51:52 - 51:54
    So all the information
    is actually there.
  • 51:54 - 51:56
    But I don't see any
    of the hearing aid
  • 51:56 - 51:59
    vendors adapting to that.
  • 51:59 - 52:04
    And what I also think, there are
    people building 3-D models
  • 52:04 - 52:07
    of houses, and you could take
    this information into
  • 52:07 - 52:09
    consideration as well.
  • 52:09 - 52:13
    So if I have never been to the
    BCC, but someone has made a
  • 52:13 - 52:16
    3-D model, you could also get
    the characteristics of the
  • 52:16 - 52:18
    acoustics here.
  • 52:18 - 52:21
    And then, before you go to the
    Congress, you could download
  • 52:21 - 52:24
    the acoustic settings for
    your hearing aids.
  • 52:24 - 52:25
    That would be really cool.
  • 52:25 - 52:28
    But, well, this is just ideas.
  • 52:28 - 52:34
    Yeah, and then also regarding
    the hardware, it would be nice
  • 52:34 - 52:36
    if there were some
    open standards.
  • 52:36 - 52:39
    It would be cool if you could
    print your own hearing aids
  • 52:39 - 52:42
    with a 3-D printer, at least the
    part that goes into your
  • 52:42 - 52:45
    ear so that it fits
    really well.
  • 52:45 - 52:47
    And there are a lot
    of possibilities.
  • 52:47 - 52:50
    But the market is really,
    really slow.
  • 52:50 - 52:53
    And they still try
    to figure out how
  • 52:53 - 52:55
    do we connect Bluetooth.
  • 52:55 - 52:59
    And for me, it's just
    way too slow.
  • 52:59 - 53:04
    I'd like to see more
    progress in that.
  • 53:04 - 53:04
    Yes.
  • 53:04 - 53:07
    Actually, with that, I would
    like to conclude.
  • 53:07 - 53:11
    And I have to thank some people
    who helped me with this
  • 53:11 - 53:18
    work, with the talk itself and
    all the stuff I talked about.
  • 53:18 - 53:22
    And yeah, I think we have some
    minutes for questions.
  • 53:22 - 53:23
    FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah,
    and that's--
  • 53:23 - 53:36
    [APPLAUSE]
  • 53:36 - 53:38
    FEMALE SPEAKER: Wonderful.
  • 53:38 - 53:41
    So before we come to the
    questions, I need to say three
  • 53:41 - 53:45
    things, which means please stay
    seated while the question
  • 53:45 - 53:47
    and answers are going on.
  • 53:47 - 53:50
    Then please pick up your trash
    and your water bottles and
  • 53:50 - 53:52
    take them out with you.
  • 53:52 - 53:55
    And then please leave through
    the front door here, while the
  • 53:55 - 53:58
    last door over there is the
    entrance for the new people.
  • 53:58 - 54:01
    So now we can go over to the
    question and answers.
  • 54:01 - 54:04
    We have a signal angel again
    in the IRC sitting and
  • 54:04 - 54:05
    watching Twitter.
  • 54:05 - 54:08
    And we have an audio angel in
    the back running around with a
  • 54:08 - 54:09
    microphone.
  • 54:09 - 54:10
    So please, questions now.
  • 54:18 - 54:19
    AUDIENCE: Hi.
  • 54:19 - 54:23
    I have a question about the
    cochlear implant [? hat. ?]
  • 54:23 - 54:28
    I'm a neuropsychologist. And I
    know that, with eyes, there's
  • 54:28 - 54:33
    an approach to re-engineer
    the signal
  • 54:33 - 54:35
    processing of the retina.
  • 54:35 - 54:41
    And with this kind of knowledge,
    you can make better
  • 54:41 - 54:42
    retina implant [? hats ?]
  • 54:42 - 54:47
    to enhance the possibilities
    of seeing with
  • 54:47 - 54:49
    this kind of aid.
  • 54:49 - 54:53
    And is there a similar approach
    for hearing aids and
  • 54:53 - 54:54
    the cochlear implant
    [? hat ?]?
  • 54:54 - 54:56
    HELGA VELROYEN: There
    are different
  • 54:56 - 54:57
    types of cochlear implants.
  • 54:57 - 55:02
    And this is really not much
    of my field of expertise.
  • 55:02 - 55:08
    I know there are those who still
    use the membrane in the
  • 55:08 - 55:14
    ear or some directly, the ones
    that I showed, that directly
  • 55:14 - 55:17
    insert the wire into
    the nerve.
  • 55:17 - 55:20
    But I am not that familiar with
    the field, so I don't
  • 55:20 - 55:21
    know what's coming there.
  • 55:24 - 55:28
    AUDIENCE: OK, there's a question
    from the front row.
  • 55:28 - 55:30
    I wonder, is there any
    connection of research in
  • 55:30 - 55:34
    companies like Siemens or
    whoever builds these parts?
  • 55:34 - 55:36
    Is that, in any way, connected
    with other
  • 55:36 - 55:39
    consumer good research?
  • 55:39 - 55:41
    I'm not hearing disabled.
  • 55:41 - 55:46
    But if somebody would come up
    with a decent set of in-ear
  • 55:46 - 55:49
    headphones that would fit and
    would be able to have some
  • 55:49 - 55:52
    noise cancellation also, I'd
    be quite interested in
  • 55:52 - 55:55
    spending money on that.
  • 55:55 - 55:58
    But this seems to be totally
    uncorrelated altogether.
  • 55:58 - 56:00
    HELGA VELROYEN: Yeah,
    that's true.
  • 56:00 - 56:05
    I mean, it's pretty close
    to in-ear headphones.
  • 56:05 - 56:09
    But it's still, from what I've
    seen, a different market.
  • 56:09 - 56:12
    You still can buy new
    hearing aids, if you
  • 56:12 - 56:14
    don't really use them.
  • 56:14 - 56:16
    No one can prevent
    you from that.
  • 56:16 - 56:21
    But I don't see any trend in
    merging that very much.
  • 56:24 - 56:25
    Is there any more questions?
  • 56:25 - 56:26
    AUDIENCE: Hello.
  • 56:26 - 56:31
    I would like to add two things
    to your wish list. One thing,
  • 56:31 - 56:34
    I would like the hacker
    community to find out what the
  • 56:34 - 56:37
    real differences in devices from
    different price ranges
  • 56:37 - 56:41
    are, what is done in hardware
    and what is
  • 56:41 - 56:42
    actually only firmware.
  • 56:42 - 56:45
    My audiologist reported devices
    coming back from
  • 56:45 - 56:48
    repairs or programming to
    report as more expensive
  • 56:48 - 56:51
    devices, for instance, where
    it's just a firmware thing.
  • 56:51 - 56:57
    And the other thing is I see an
    interesting hacking attack
  • 56:57 - 57:02
    angle for hacking in the
    protocol that the devices use
  • 57:02 - 57:05
    to communicate with each other,
    with the devices which
  • 57:05 - 57:09
    transfer Bluetooth into the body
    area network that really
  • 57:09 - 57:10
    speaks to the devices.
  • 57:10 - 57:13
    So do you know any off-the-shelf
    components that
  • 57:13 - 57:17
    can speak these body area
    network protocols?
  • 57:17 - 57:19
    HELGA VELROYEN: For the Siemens
    thing I showed, I
  • 57:19 - 57:20
    haven't found anything.
  • 57:20 - 57:25
    So this is just that gadget
    that I have. But I think
  • 57:25 - 57:29
    people are experimenting with
    the audio induction loops and
  • 57:29 - 57:34
    the FM systems. But yeah, it's
    not that much that you can see
  • 57:34 - 57:36
    documentation of that.
  • 57:36 - 57:39
    So I'd like to see more here.
  • 57:39 - 57:42
    I made this talk because I would
    tell you hackers what's
  • 57:42 - 57:43
    on the menu.
  • 57:43 - 57:45
    And it would be really nice
    if there was more
  • 57:45 - 57:47
    activity in the scene.
  • 57:47 - 57:50
    And it's kind of hard to start
    that if you're all alone.
  • 57:50 - 57:56
    So I hope I've risen some
    interest. And if you have any
  • 57:56 - 58:00
    pointers for me or anything I
    didn't mention here, I'm also
  • 58:00 - 58:02
    happy if you send me an email.
  • 58:02 - 58:05
    Or I will be around the
    next couple of days.
  • 58:05 - 58:07
    FEMALE SPEAKER: Before we
    finish, there are some
  • 58:07 - 58:10
    questions from the internet.
  • 58:10 - 58:14
    The first one is Gilligan who
    asked, does the fact that you
  • 58:14 - 58:17
    have tinnitus make the process
    of tuning a hearing aid for
  • 58:17 - 58:18
    you harder?
  • 58:18 - 58:21
    Does a hearing aid have a
    negative or positive effect on
  • 58:21 - 58:23
    your tinnitus when
    you wear it?
  • 58:23 - 58:24
    HELGA VELROYEN: Of my what?
  • 58:24 - 58:26
    Sorry.
  • 58:26 - 58:27
    A positive or negative--
  • 58:27 - 58:29
    FEMALE SPEAKER: Does the hearing
    aid have a negative or
  • 58:29 - 58:33
    a positive effect on your
    tinnitus when you wear it?
  • 58:33 - 58:36
    HELGA VELROYEN: Actually,
    yeah.
  • 58:36 - 58:39
    There are hearing aids that
    claim to [? counter-fy ?]
  • 58:39 - 58:42
    the tinnitus, that
    they generate the
  • 58:42 - 58:44
    counter-frequencies
    against that.
  • 58:44 - 58:50
    I also asked my acousticians or
    my audiologists about that.
  • 58:50 - 58:51
    They actually don't work.
  • 58:51 - 58:53
    I mean, they usually are
    not really offered.
  • 58:53 - 58:56
    And even if you ask for it, they
    tell you, yeah, usually
  • 58:56 - 58:59
    they don't really make
    a difference.
  • 58:59 - 59:02
    My choice was actually just to
    make a normal hearing aid.
  • 59:02 - 59:06
    And because the frequencies that
    you don't hear very well
  • 59:06 - 59:12
    are amplified, the tinnitus,
    in relation, gets as loud.
  • 59:12 - 59:16
    And you learn to ignore it.
  • 59:16 - 59:18
    That's not really magic, but
    that's the only thing that
  • 59:18 - 59:20
    seems to work.
  • 59:20 - 59:25
    FEMALE SPEAKER: OK, the next one
    is from [? Schpegmada ?]?
  • 59:25 - 59:28
    Are there hearing aids with
    documented RP for the tuning
  • 59:28 - 59:30
    official doc reverse
    engineered?
  • 59:30 - 59:32
    Can you get the official
    tuning software to tune
  • 59:32 - 59:36
    yourself that you write
    through any people who
  • 59:36 - 59:37
    manufacture them?
  • 59:37 - 59:40
    HELGA VELROYEN: I haven't found
    anything about that.
  • 59:40 - 59:43
    The only thing you can do is get
    the software on the black
  • 59:43 - 59:46
    market and disassemble
    it, if possible.
  • 59:46 - 59:49
    But there are no API
    system thing.
  • 59:49 - 59:52
    That's really what I'm
    missing as well.
  • 59:52 - 59:56
    FEMALE SPEAKER: OK, the last
    one is from Lucy, I guess.
  • 59:56 - 59:59
    What frequency range can
    you usually hear
  • 59:59 - 60:01
    using a cochlear implant?
  • 60:01 - 60:03
    How fine can you resolve
    frequencies?
  • 60:03 - 60:07
    HELGA VELROYEN: They are about
    the range that you have in the
  • 60:07 - 60:08
    speech banana.
  • 60:08 - 60:10
    But actually, I'm not
    that familiar
  • 60:10 - 60:11
    with cochlear implants.
  • 60:11 - 60:15
    So I can not give the
    details here.
  • 60:15 - 60:17
    AUDIENCE: OK, hi.
  • 60:17 - 60:22
    You showed us the programming
    tool for changing the settings
  • 60:22 - 60:24
    on the hearing aid.
  • 60:24 - 60:27
    I've forgotten the name,
    but the 1980's modem.
  • 60:27 - 60:30
    Have there been any attempts
    to clone that hardware or
  • 60:30 - 60:34
    reverse-engineer the spec?
  • 60:34 - 60:36
    HELGA VELROYEN: I'm not sure
    if I understood correctly.
  • 60:36 - 60:39
    You mean like how you get
    the hardware for this?
  • 60:39 - 60:42
    AUDIENCE: Yeah, so the moment
    you have to buy the
  • 60:42 - 60:44
    programming tool,
    as I understand,
  • 60:44 - 60:45
    to update the software.
  • 60:45 - 60:49
    HELGA VELROYEN: Since it's only
    delivered and sold to
  • 60:49 - 60:53
    audiologists and doctors, you
    have to be friends with
  • 60:53 - 60:55
    audiologists or doctors.
  • 60:55 - 60:57
    And somehow they can
    give you that.
  • 60:57 - 60:59
    But there's no official
    channel.
  • 60:59 - 61:04
    So you have to find
    the black market.
  • 61:04 - 61:07
    AUDIENCE: Yeah, sorry, my
    question was has anyone tried
  • 61:07 - 61:11
    to create an open hardware
    variant?
  • 61:11 - 61:11
    HELGA VELROYEN: No.
  • 61:11 - 61:12
    AUDIENCE: Has anyone copied?
  • 61:12 - 61:14
    HELGA VELROYEN: No,
    I haven't found
  • 61:14 - 61:15
    anything like that either.
  • 61:15 - 61:19
    So that was actually also on my
    wish list, that makes the
  • 61:19 - 61:21
    tuning hardware open
    source as well.
  • 61:21 - 61:22
    That would be really nice.
  • 61:22 - 61:26
    But it's a serial device, so
    you could actually do some
  • 61:26 - 61:27
    sniffing there.
  • 61:27 - 61:29
    But I haven't seen any
    approaches there.
  • 61:29 - 61:31
    AUDIENCE: Yeah, because
    it looks pretty
  • 61:31 - 61:32
    easy, I would say.
  • 61:32 - 61:32
    [LAUGHTER]
  • 61:32 - 61:34
    AUDIENCE: Yeah.
  • 61:34 - 61:37
    FEMALE SPEAKER: So we are
    running out of time.
  • 61:37 - 61:41
    Is there any really, really
    important question left?
  • 61:41 - 61:45
    I mean, because she's around,
    so you can meet her in the
  • 61:45 - 61:49
    next days on the Congress
    again and
  • 61:49 - 61:50
    ask her more questions.
  • 61:50 - 61:51
    And thank you very much
    for the talk.
  • 61:51 - 61:52
    It was very interesting.
  • 61:52 - 62:14
    [APPLAUSE]
Title:
https:/.../28c3-4669-en-bionic_ears_h264.mp4
Video Language:
English
Duration:
01:02:13

English subtitles

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