-
...on an interpersonal basis,
-
institutionally? Not terribly much,
-
because most of the lethal, toxic, deadly racism that African American people experience,
-
and that other people of colour experience in this country,
-
does not come from them.
-
It comes from moral, fair-minded people who believe that they are lovers of justice,
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church goers, people who experience themselvesas decent and actually very nice folk.
-
And it is there that I find my fear.
-
Back to the question of what it means to be white.
-
I think what it means to be white in part
-
is that you have the privilege of blaming people of colour
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for their own victimization under white supremacy.
-
I've heard you say that to me.
-
I've heard you say that to him.
-
I've heard you say that to him.
-
I've heard you say it to him.
-
I've heard you say it to, uh, every person of colour in the room
-
who challenged your perception of yourself in the world.
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That is part of what it means to be white.
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[David C] Maybe that's part of the answer.
-
That we feel that the field is wide open,
-
and each man can stand on his own...
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[Victor] No no. Each man does not stand on his own.
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Some men stand on other men, and other women.
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Light skinned men, men from Europe stand on the heads and the parts
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of men and women and children of colour.
-
That is.... and of course you also stand on the heads of white women.
-
But no, it's not a question of every man standing on his own ground.
-
All of the ground damn near of this planet has been taken
-
from almost all of the people of colour on this planet.
-
You know, Australia was a black continent.
-
Africa was a black continent
-
And if the people themselves were not taken from Africa,
-
then everything of value was taken from Africa to the extent that that was possible.
-
North America was a red continent.
-
South America was a red continent.
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You are NOT stading on your own ground.
-
You are standing on RED ground.
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And THAT's what it means to be white.
-
To say that you're standing on your own ground and standing on somebody else's.
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And then mystify the whole process so it seems like you're not doing that.
-
White. Why is being white such a unique thing?
-
Why is it such a, an important thing?
-
I've never felt that way.
-
[Roberto]It is kind of... y'kow...
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[David C] Well it must be. You're telling me that being white is special.
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And I'm not feeling special.
-
And I've never felt special because I was white.
-
You've pointed out to me where I have racial prejudisms.
-
And I've expressed that innocently, and naively, by just little questions & statement that I've made.
-
Um. Yeah. Maybe I really am that way.
-
[Gordon] I have a real difficult time talking with you about your experience.
-
I can relate to their frustration.
-
It just doesn't feel like anything's getting through.
-
[Hugh] I'm working up my courage to ask you something, a request.
-
And also there's a question with it.
-
The request is for you to not give up on David, to go after him.
-
I'm not able to get through,
-
and many in the room are not able to get through.
-
And we've given statistics, and we've given personal stories, and we've given histories,
-
and we've dadadadada.
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We've yelled, we've screamed, we've cried, you know, it's not getting through.
-
I'm sure you've met other white people that you just have said
-
"bye, forget it, I'm not, I don't need to deal with you"
-
you know, that kind of thing.
-
I don't have the privilege of not dealing with the Davids in the world.
-
So I'm askin', I'm askin' you to do that.
-
I'm actually boldly expecting you to do that.
-
[laughing]
-
If I were standing in front of a whole room full of white people,
-
I would tell them much of what I've told some of the men in this group this weekend,
-
the white men in this group.
-
I would tell them that it's their responsibility to go educate their white brothers & sisters.
-
I would tell them it's their, that it's my expectation,
-
I expect them to eliminate racism.
-
I expect them to go out and intervene whenever they see racism going on.
-
And I expect them to be as outraged about racism as I am outraged by racism,
-
as black people are outraged,
-
as Asians are outraged,
-
as Indians are outraged.
-
I expect that of them,
-
and that's what I would tell them.
-
I would tell them what I expect,
-
I'll tell them what I, I'd tell them what I never want to hear from them again.
-
I never wanna hear stuff about um, how my experience is not valid,
-
or why can't I just pull myself up by my bootstraps.
-
Those are things that I would tell them about.
-
And I'd tell them that they've gotta end it. They've gotta end it.
-
This morning, I felt this ray of hope and optimism, when you shared that you get nervous
-
when you would go down to San Francisco into an ethnically diverse neighbourhood,
-
and that you actually got in touch with those messages,
-
whether they were given to you directly, taught to you directly, or not,
-
or somehow that you felt how these things just started to come over you.
-
[Lee Mun Wah] Why is that important to you...
-
[Yutaka] Because I just sort of felt that you finally connected with some feelings,
-
and getting down here, instead of being up here in the uh, frontal lobes,
-
and analyzing every everything, and looking at everything rational.
-
'Cause a lot of the fears or the anger, isn't rational.
-
[David C] It's probably the looks that you get.
-
I think that's where it comes from.
-
The looks, of the individuals,
-
uh, they stand on the corners and, uh, "what are you doin' here?" y'know?
-
And they make me feel unwanted.
-
I think that's what I feel.
-
[Yutaka] Yeah.As pickup trucks do...
-
[laughing]
-
guys with, cowboy, sitting there, you pull up in the gas station...
-
I know my feelings are very opposed to some of yours,
-
and I don't understand why you have all this intense anger, and emotions,
-
why it's so difficult for you to just be yourselves,
-
and make your place.
-
Wh... I think that's the big difference here.
-
We white men don't have this comraderie if you want, that you coloureds have.
-
We, we we have, we don't go out and organize, we don't go out and have discussions,
-
we just do our stuff, whatever our stuff is, I guess.
-
I see that we're living in 2 completely different consciousnesses,
-
and, y'know, I think that I get yours, and that I have to be able to understand yours in order to survive.
-
You live in a world where it's not necessary in most instances for you to understand
-
my consciousness and my experience.
-
It's like one of those parking garages with the spikes coming up.
-
You know, you live in the world where when you drive your car past, the spikes lay down.
-
And I live in the world, and the men of colour here live in the world where
-
when we come up to the spikes, man, they're facing right at us.
-
The thought comes to me, Victor, you're going the wrong direction.
-
If the spikes are opposing you,
-
does that ever occur to you, that you're going the wrong direction?
-
That's a beautiful statement to me, that I'm going the wrong direction.
-
It's a marvelous illustration of the consciousness of white supremacy.
-
Well, let's not say white supremacy...
-
[Victor] Well, I...
-
that's what I want to say...
-
[David C] This is where as you speak this analogy,
-
and I'm thinking to myself "golly, why does it always have to be in opposition
-
to the way things are structured?"
-
And I constantly sit here and think "why is he taking this direction?"
-
Why don't they as a group, why don't you with your people, look for something within yourselves
-
that can make you feel equal to us?
-
Because what I hear is you are not equal, and I do not feel that.
-
[Lee Mun Wah] So what's leeping you from believing that that's happening to Victor?
-
Just believe it, not to know why that's happening to him,
-
but what's keeping you from believing that that's happening...
-
[David C] Because it seems like such a harsh life, and I just don't want to believe.
-
I would assume, Victor, that your life is really that hard, difficult, and unpleasant,
-
[Lee Mun Wah] What would it mean David then if the life really was that harsh?
-
What would that mean in your life, if it really was that harsh...
-
[David C] It would be a travesty of life.
-
You have here something that shouldn't exist.
-
[Lee Mun Wah] And so what if it does?
-
What if the world were not as you thought?
-
That it actually is happening to lots of human beings on this earth,
-
what if it actually were, and you didn't know about it? What would that mean to you?
-
Well that's very saddening.
-
[voice cracking] You don't want to believe that man can be so cruel to himself or his own kind.
-
I do not want to accept that it has to be that way... maybe it is,
-
and it must be, because you express it and, the others in the group express that it is.
-
From here I can work with you.
-
I do not find you to be an enemy.
-
Aggressive, and frightening when you become very animated and agitated, but...
-
[Victor] We spend a lot of time being nice,
-
and conciliatory, and thoughtful, and careful.
-
I don't want to be exciteable with you about it.
-
I become excitable
-
when I feel like there's no way for my humanity to get affirmed,
-
if I can't say no with my whole aliveness to being mistreated or invalidated,
-
then, yeah, then I'm dead, I'm as good as dead.
-
If there were some way that I could be of use and service to you, I would.
-
I don't know how. I've never looked at that possibility.
-
I think how you could help me is to begin to understand yourself better.
-
I don't need help from you or from white folks,
-
as much as I need a sense of fairness, which is lacking,
-
and as much as I need a sense of awareness about this invisible protection that you have,
-
and this invisible privilege that you have...
-
When Victor was telling you about you being asleep, not being conscious of your privilege,
-
and taking it for granted,
-
it was revealed to me that that is true when you referred to us as "you coloureds",
-
because I find that is a very demeaning term.
-
I find it alienating,
-
and I've heard it in the context of referring to people of colour in a negative fashion.
-
And it's painful for me to hear it.
-
How would you like me to address you?
-
Well, not as "you anything".
-
Not "you people", not "you coloureds", not "you Asians", not "you blacks", not "you Latinos".
-
[David C] You David.
-
[David L] It's people of colour, or David if you want to talk about non-whites,
-
I'm more comfortable with that,
-
cause when you say "you", it's sort of, um, it's alienating.
-
You bastards, you pigs, you lowlifes, you no-good people, you people of colour,
-
that's how it feels.
-
I know I have talked to black people who have said you know
-
you have immigrants that come to this country and they can't speak a word of the language,
-
except for one thing.
-
They can all say "nigger".
-
Racism between whites and people of colour isn't the only racism that exists.
-
There's racism amongst people of colour.
-
It was dusk, it was dark,
-
this whole group of black people they're
-
going home, and I had this anxiety, this tension,
-
and I said why am I so, y'know, what's this big deal,
-
and then I started to relax and I said these people are just going home from work.
-
Just like me.
-
We're all waiting at the busstop,
-
and as soon as I opened my eyes and scanned, and released myself from all this fear.
-
But it still comes up, I get frightened,
-
you guys are powerful, you guys got a lot of power.
-
Certain Asian people have reacted toward me, and that really hurt me
-
because I felt they were, uh, they took their cues from white people.
-
You know, like, I've walked by Asian women, and you can see them tense up.
-
And that really bothered me,
-
that here was somebody who is another minority,
-
and yet they had all these, um, they treated me in a way that they wouldn't want to be treated.
-
It was like they were treating me like some kind of thug off the street, and I really hated that.
-
At the table behind us were 2, um, young black women,
-
and they're laughing and then looking over at my table where I was sitting,
-
and I heard one say "all Chinese look alike".
-
I got up and I walked over to them,
-
and they just wouldn't look at me,
-
they kept kind of giggling not looking at me.
-
And I said I heard you, I heard what you said and I disagree with that.
-
Do you think all blacks look alike?
-
And I came back to my car and there was a motorcycle parked in front of it,
-
and I looked around, and there was a black man in a motorcycle helmet
-
getting money out of the money machine.
-
And I was pissed...