Awakening in Dreams | Nicola De Pisapia | TEDxMantova
-
0:11 - 0:14Let's start with a seemingly
easy question. -
0:15 - 0:18Who, here, is convinced
to be dreaming, right now? -
0:20 - 0:23Raise your hand, one, two -
-
0:24 - 0:26not many, thankfully.
-
0:26 - 0:28(Laughter)
-
0:30 - 0:34Another question, linked to the first -
even though it doesn't seem so. -
0:35 - 0:38Who of you would trust someone
-
0:38 - 0:41who betrays you every day?
-
0:42 - 0:48Every day, every night actually,
it fools you into believing false things. -
0:50 - 0:52Is there someone
who would trust that person? -
0:53 - 0:56No, we all agree on this.
-
0:57 - 1:01Yet this is what we do:
-
1:01 - 1:05we trust someone
who deceives us every day. -
1:05 - 1:10This is what we all do,
because our mind fools us -
1:10 - 1:16every day, every night, when we sleep,
for about an hour and a half. -
1:18 - 1:21That is the duration
of the so-called REM phases, -
1:21 - 1:25the sleep's dreaming phase.
-
1:26 - 1:28Which kind of experience is dream?
-
1:28 - 1:32We all know that, we believe what we see.
-
1:33 - 1:35If we're having a nightmare,
we are afraid, -
1:35 - 1:38because that monster is chasing us,
we believe it is true. -
1:40 - 1:44If we have a love affair
with someone, we believe it. -
1:45 - 1:49And the experience we are living,
we live it intensely. -
1:52 - 1:57Our mind deceives us
in an extremely convincing way, -
1:57 - 1:59involving all our senses.
-
2:00 - 2:03It involves sight, involves hearing,
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2:03 - 2:08involves touch, involves emotions.
-
2:09 - 2:14Our brain and our mind
create for us, when we dream, -
2:15 - 2:21some sort of movie,
natural virtual reality. -
2:21 - 2:24Some of you may have tried
to use virtual reality, right? -
2:24 - 2:28We are immersed in it, we believe in it.
Even more so in a dream. -
2:29 - 2:33It is a "natural" technology, so to say,
and it's even more effective. -
2:34 - 2:38Yet during the day, when we are awake,
-
2:39 - 2:41we trust our mind,
-
2:41 - 2:44which is the same
that betrayed us in the night, -
2:45 - 2:47the same that deceived us,
-
2:47 - 2:50that perhaps inspired us during the night,
-
2:50 - 2:53but still generating something
that just is not true. -
2:54 - 2:58It is fake, it is illusory,
it is a shadow. -
3:00 - 3:04This idea that our mind deceives us
-
3:04 - 3:10has deeply crossed
our entire Western culture -
3:11 - 3:14generating two approaches,
two ways of thinking -
3:14 - 3:16extremely important for all of us.
-
3:16 - 3:18We could not be here now
-
3:18 - 3:23if we had not reconsidered
the deceptive nature of our senses. -
3:23 - 3:25One approach is science.
-
3:26 - 3:27With the scientific method,
-
3:28 - 3:33science wants to go beyond the limits
of the individual mind, -
3:33 - 3:34the deception of our senses,
-
3:34 - 3:36That's why we use a meter.
-
3:36 - 3:39If I guess by naked eye,
something is five feet meter long, -
3:39 - 3:42I know I can deceive myself,
my mind is not that accurate, -
3:43 - 3:44I need to use a tool
-
3:44 - 3:48to objectively measure that length.
-
3:49 - 3:51This holds true for everything in science.
-
3:51 - 3:54We set up models,
but we do not trust them. -
3:54 - 3:58We must run experiments,
we must take measures -
3:58 - 4:01so that our idea, our fantasy,
-
4:01 - 4:05is somehow confirmed
by the external reality. -
4:07 - 4:08So the scientific method
-
4:08 - 4:11is totally aware
of how deceptive our mind is. -
4:12 - 4:14And it doesn't count
a single scientist's opinion, -
4:14 - 4:16because she may have made a mistake,
-
4:16 - 4:20she might have made experiments,
let's say, only in a certain direction. -
4:20 - 4:23Another scientist is needed
-
4:23 - 4:26who questions, tries to falsify,
-
4:26 - 4:30what the first scientist stated.
-
4:31 - 4:34Another discipline
that strongly takes into account -
4:34 - 4:37the deceptive nature of our senses
-
4:37 - 4:40is Western philosophy.
-
4:40 - 4:41There's also the Eastern one,
-
4:41 - 4:44but we are more familiar
with the Western one. -
4:44 - 4:47Think of Descartes, René Descartes,
-
4:47 - 4:51a great French philosopher,
one of the fathers of modern thought. -
4:51 - 4:56He starts his philosophical study,
his philosophical exploration, -
4:56 - 5:03precisely from the fundamental doubt
about the relatability of his senses -
5:03 - 5:09and tried to find
a sounder base than his senses, -
5:09 - 5:12one that a philosophical system
can later be built upon. -
5:13 - 5:16And so he starts saying
"I think therefore I am", -
5:16 - 5:17which is well known.
-
5:18 - 5:20You see, science and philosophy,
-
5:20 - 5:24and various philosophical approaches
that we do not explore now, -
5:24 - 5:28are fully aware of our senses'
deluding nature. -
5:28 - 5:30But we, as individuals,
-
5:31 - 5:33we rarely ask ourselves during the day:
-
5:33 - 5:35am I dreaming or not?
-
5:36 - 5:41Instead, we believe
in what our senses, all the time, -
5:42 - 5:45make us see, hear, feel, touch.
-
5:48 - 5:51But I'd like to stress with you now
-
5:51 - 5:56a particular method we can use
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5:56 - 5:59to become more aware
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5:59 - 6:01of our senses' deceptive nature.
-
6:02 - 6:05And this happens just while we dream.
-
6:06 - 6:09That is, while we are having
a normal dream, -
6:09 - 6:12trying to nurture the ability
-
6:12 - 6:15to wonder if that is a dream or not.
-
6:16 - 6:19Let's assume I'm chased
by a nightmare's monster; -
6:19 - 6:25while I'm running away,
I contemplate the situation -
6:26 - 6:28and ask myself: is this a dream or not?
-
6:29 - 6:31And I turn my face to the monster.
-
6:34 - 6:38It is an extremely difficult
change of conscience, it is not easy, -
6:38 - 6:40but perhaps some of you
will have experienced it. -
6:41 - 6:43Some of you may have had a dream
-
6:43 - 6:47where you felt it was a dream
and maybe you guided it a little bit. -
6:48 - 6:50Those are called "pre-lucid dreams".
-
6:50 - 6:53A lucid dream is an extremely
intense experience, -
6:54 - 6:58where we are fully aware
of the fact that we are dreaming. -
6:59 - 7:03You see, as a teenager
I had that experience -
7:04 - 7:06as I clumsily practiced
-
7:06 - 7:09meditation techniques during the day
-
7:09 - 7:13and one night I happened
to have a lucid dream -
7:13 - 7:15of this extremely intense type,
-
7:16 - 7:19which shaped a bit, let's say,
-
7:19 - 7:22the way I saw, and still see,
-
7:22 - 7:25consciousness and awareness.
-
7:26 - 7:28With the first dream then,
-
7:28 - 7:31immediately reported
on the lucid dreams's book, -
7:31 - 7:35was the first in a series
of hundreds and hundreds of lucid dreams -
7:35 - 7:39that I had in my life
and still continue to have. -
7:40 - 7:42And they have a great
transformative power. -
7:44 - 7:48Initially with the first dreams,
you learn a little to play. -
7:48 - 7:50One thing I did, for example,
-
7:50 - 7:52was to get up a few inches off the ground.
-
7:53 - 7:55So I tried to challenge
the laws of physics -
7:56 - 7:58and move from one place to another
-
7:58 - 8:02of that extremely detailed
dream reality, by sliding. -
8:03 - 8:05But then, why stop at that?
-
8:05 - 8:07So in later dreams I elevated myself more,
-
8:08 - 8:11and even passed through walls.
-
8:12 - 8:14I had the chance to fly over a city,
-
8:15 - 8:17to go from one city to another,
-
8:18 - 8:20always with extreme realism.
-
8:20 - 8:25Meeting people generated for us
by our dream world - -
8:25 - 8:27we cannot control the people in the dream,
-
8:27 - 8:31they have a strange
independence of thought; -
8:31 - 8:33but we can decide to go to them.
-
8:36 - 8:38We can transform our body,
-
8:39 - 8:41because we have a dream body,
-
8:41 - 8:43which is the same one
of when we are awake, -
8:44 - 8:47but if we look at our dream hands
-
8:47 - 8:52we can transform them, with an effort
of lucidity and awareness, -
8:52 - 8:55giving them six or ten fingers,
-
8:55 - 8:58or the hands of an animal,
to become a wolf. -
8:59 - 9:00One can become an eagle,
-
9:01 - 9:04not only to fly but also
to have the body of an eagle. -
9:05 - 9:07It is possible to become a dog,
-
9:07 - 9:10a woman if you are a man,
or the other way around. -
9:11 - 9:14It is possible to be
in two places simultaneously, -
9:15 - 9:19being aware of that -
and why not, even three places. -
9:19 - 9:22Once it happened to me
to be in three different places, -
9:22 - 9:24I was flying in one, walking in another,
-
9:24 - 9:26and melted with the floor
in the third one. -
9:28 - 9:32Not so pleasant but interesting.
-
9:32 - 9:36And anyway, you're in control.
You can wake up at any time. -
9:38 - 9:41So, we said about philosophy.
-
9:42 - 9:47There are various traces
of our awareness' ability -
9:47 - 9:49to move into the world of shadows.
-
9:49 - 9:54And the best allegory for this idea
is a very famous one -
9:54 - 9:57I am sure that many of you
will have heard or studied. -
9:57 - 9:59It is the Plato's Cave,
-
9:59 - 10:02or the Allegory of the Cave,
as it is also known. -
10:03 - 10:05It's a story, I recapitulate here,
-
10:05 - 10:08written by Plato 2,400 years ago
in his Republic, -
10:09 - 10:13staged in a cave deep within the Earth.
-
10:13 - 10:16There are prisoners in chains
-
10:17 - 10:21who are forced to look
only at the bottom of the cave, -
10:21 - 10:25with no chance to move or look back.
-
10:25 - 10:26That is their world.
-
10:28 - 10:31Behind them, unbeknownst to them,
there is a huge fire -
10:31 - 10:33and between fire and prisoners
-
10:33 - 10:36there are people passing with objects.
-
10:38 - 10:41So the prisoners see,
at the bottom of the cave. -
10:41 - 10:42a number of moving shadows.
-
10:42 - 10:44That is their reality,
-
10:45 - 10:47and they therefore believe
that this is the only reality. -
10:48 - 10:50Those shadows are all that is there.
-
10:52 - 10:53It just so happens, one day,
-
10:53 - 10:57one of those prisoners
is released from the chains. -
10:57 - 11:02He is able to get out
of his limited world. -
11:03 - 11:06The first thing he does,
he sees that there is a huge fire -
11:06 - 11:09and he sees there are
three-dimensional objects -
11:09 - 11:11he had absolutely no idea of before,
-
11:11 - 11:13And he understands that shadows,
-
11:13 - 11:15once thought to be
the objects of the world, -
11:15 - 11:20are only a projection
of the actual three-dimensional reality. -
11:21 - 11:24Then, at a distance, he sees a light,
-
11:24 - 11:27which is the entrance to the cave
he had lived in until then, -
11:29 - 11:31he goes there, he comes out
-
11:31 - 11:35and sees that the world
is much more complex -
11:35 - 11:38and very rich, colorful, full of light
-
11:38 - 11:42and there is a large fire,
much larger than that of the cave, -
11:42 - 11:45which is the sun,
which enlightens everything. -
11:46 - 11:49And he can interact with these objects,
he can run, he can touch them. -
11:51 - 11:55Awakened as it is - you see,
this is a metaphor for awakening - -
11:56 - 11:58but there is another passage,
-
11:58 - 12:00which is what also happens
in lucid dreaming, -
12:00 - 12:04that is, he decides to get back
to the world of shadows. -
12:04 - 12:06He returns down inside the cave
-
12:06 - 12:09where his inmates are still prisoners,
-
12:09 - 12:11and he wants to tell them
-
12:12 - 12:15that the reality of the shadows
is not the real reality -
12:15 - 12:19but there is a much more complex reality,
much richer, much finer, -
12:19 - 12:21much more true, out there.
-
12:22 - 12:26As you can see, allegories
describe mental processes, -
12:26 - 12:27just as dreams.
-
12:27 - 12:30indeed allegories and dreams overlap,
they have a close connection. -
12:30 - 12:32In this allegory of Plato
-
12:32 - 12:35there is this mental process of awakening,
-
12:35 - 12:37A hard process,
-
12:37 - 12:39also because initially
it's hard to wake up, -
12:39 - 12:41blinded as we are by light;
-
12:41 - 12:44but little by little,
we wake up completely. -
12:44 - 12:47But then you see,
there's this second passage, -
12:47 - 12:49the return to the world of shadows,
-
12:49 - 12:53the return to sleep,
the return to the illusory condition -
12:53 - 12:56where we try to interact
but from an awakened standpoint. -
12:57 - 13:00So you see how it is like
to wake up in a dream. -
13:02 - 13:06Recent neuroscientific research
-
13:06 - 13:08has focused on this phenomenon.
-
13:08 - 13:11It used to be the exclusive
realm of philosophy -
13:11 - 13:13or maybe some anecdote
told here and there. -
13:13 - 13:16Then it became a mostly
psychological field, -
13:17 - 13:19and now even of neuroscience.
-
13:19 - 13:23So what happens
in a lucidly dreaming brain? -
13:24 - 13:27Well, the message is this,
-
13:27 - 13:30we have a part of the brain
that is critically important, -
13:30 - 13:32called the prefrontal cortex,
-
13:32 - 13:34the one we have behind the forehead.
-
13:34 - 13:36And you can imagine its role
-
13:36 - 13:41as a sort of conductor
of all of our mental abilities. -
13:41 - 13:42It directs the vision,
-
13:42 - 13:45which decides when to pay attention,
-
13:45 - 13:48what we must pay attention to
in our visual range. -
13:49 - 13:50So the conductor -
-
13:50 - 13:53as it doesn’t play an instrument itself
-
13:53 - 13:57but regulates, let's say, the productions
of all the other instruments. -
13:58 - 14:02Thus it is a kind of boss of our mind.
-
14:02 - 14:05That's when we have normal,
ordinary dreams, -
14:06 - 14:08the prefrontal cortex is off,
-
14:09 - 14:12while the rest of the brain
is normally active -
14:12 - 14:13almost as if we were awake.
-
14:14 - 14:18So it's a very active brain,
but in the prefrontal cortex. -
14:19 - 14:22What has been discovered is,
when we have a lucid dream - -
14:22 - 14:26a very rare event,
very hard to reproduce in labs, -
14:26 - 14:30prefrontal cortex gets activated,
-
14:30 - 14:33not just as completely
as if we were awake, -
14:34 - 14:38but in many substantial parts
it's more active, consumes more oxygen. -
14:39 - 14:40It was also found,
-
14:40 - 14:43those who are most prone to lucid dreaming
-
14:43 - 14:47or developed this ability
to be conscious in their dreams, -
14:47 - 14:50have a thicker prefrontal cortex,
-
14:50 - 14:53we can measure it with an MRI,
-
14:53 - 14:56which signals a greater predisposition
-
14:56 - 15:00to be the conductor,
-
15:00 - 15:03to have an active conductor in their mind.
-
15:04 - 15:06Many studies - and many are still ongoing,
-
15:06 - 15:09is an extremely recent research topic.
-
15:10 - 15:14The prefrontal cortex
is my favorite research topic, -
15:14 - 15:15so I started dealing many years ago
-
15:15 - 15:19on how the prefrontal cortex
regulates and directs our behavior. -
15:21 - 15:25So what can we do, in order to increase
-
15:25 - 15:29our ability to be aware
while sleeping, in the dream? -
15:29 - 15:33Well one technique is that
of asking yourself, even when awake, -
15:33 - 15:34if we are dreaming or not.
-
15:34 - 15:37I mean, all of a sudden,
am I dreaming or not? -
15:39 - 15:42Asking the question,
rather than giving the answer, -
15:43 - 15:45casting some doubt
-
15:45 - 15:48on how actually real is what we see.
-
15:48 - 15:53If it is our projection
or is an objective fact. -
15:54 - 16:00Repeating it several times during the day
makes us, say, create a kind of habit. -
16:01 - 16:06And it may happen, one of these times
we ask that ourselves, -
16:06 - 16:08that we are actually dreaming.
-
16:08 - 16:12And so I'm talking to someone
in my dream world, -
16:13 - 16:14and I stop for a moment, saying,
-
16:14 - 16:19am I really talking with this person,
am I really watching a TED talk -
16:20 - 16:22or is it a dream?
-
16:23 - 16:27And try to give youself a valid answer.
-
16:28 - 16:31Doing this several times during the day -
-
16:32 - 16:36but let me get this straight,
not to escape in a dream world! -
16:36 - 16:38Exactly for the opposite purpose:
-
16:38 - 16:41enhance awareness, lucidity and presence
-
16:41 - 16:44in what we are experiencing.
-
16:45 - 16:48By doing so, we can become
experienced lucid dreamers. -
16:48 - 16:53And which advantage do we have
in our conscious world? -
16:53 - 16:57Think of a situation when you're hit
by a negative event: -
16:57 - 16:58for example, you're fired.
-
16:59 - 17:01Bad, objectively bad.
-
17:02 - 17:07But how much negative projection we create
around such an objectively bad event? -
17:08 - 17:11We began to underestimate ourselves:
why have they fired me? -
17:11 - 17:14I didn't deserve that job,
-
17:14 - 17:18I never showed that I was good at it,
or at that other thing, -
17:18 - 17:22I have no more chances left.
What will my family think about me? -
17:22 - 17:25All this, you see, is dream-like:
-
17:25 - 17:28it is a dream dress
-
17:28 - 17:31we put on real and concrete facts.
-
17:32 - 17:34Training to lucid dreaming
-
17:34 - 17:39helps us to tell objective reality
from our projection. -
17:39 - 17:42In this way we can live better.
-
17:42 - 17:46Not to escape in a distant world,
-
17:46 - 17:48but to be more present in reality.
-
17:48 - 17:50Thus getting closer
-
17:50 - 17:54to the freed prisoner of Plato's Cave
-
17:54 - 17:58and be able to go around,
out in the outside world, -
17:58 - 17:59in light of the sun,
-
17:59 - 18:05or even return to the world of shadows
and not let them to capture us again. -
18:05 - 18:11So I say goodbye to you with a wish
for a good awakening in dreams. -
18:11 - 18:15(Applause)
- Title:
- Awakening in Dreams | Nicola De Pisapia | TEDxMantova
- Description:
-
By inviting us to take note of the illusory nature of the senses neuroscientist and Professor Nicola De Pisapia offers us a method to channel our dreams and live them with lucidly.
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community.
Learn more at https://www.ted.com/tedx
- Video Language:
- Italian
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDxTalks
- Duration:
- 18:21
Muriel de Meo approved English subtitles for Svegliarsi nel sogno | Nicola De Pisapia | TEDxMantova | ||
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Nicoletta Pedrana edited English subtitles for Svegliarsi nel sogno | Nicola De Pisapia | TEDxMantova | ||
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Michele Gianella edited English subtitles for Svegliarsi nel sogno | Nicola De Pisapia | TEDxMantova | ||
Michele Gianella edited English subtitles for Svegliarsi nel sogno | Nicola De Pisapia | TEDxMantova | ||
Michele Gianella edited English subtitles for Svegliarsi nel sogno | Nicola De Pisapia | TEDxMantova | ||
Mara Mazzoni edited English subtitles for Svegliarsi nel sogno | Nicola De Pisapia | TEDxMantova |