Sibel Edmonds on Gladio B - Part 1
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0:01 - 0:12♪ (Intro Music) ♪
-
0:12 - 0:14Welcome. This is James Corbett
of CorbettReport.com. -
0:14 - 0:17It is the 30th of January, 2013
here in Japan; -
0:17 - 0:20and today I'm joined
on the line from the United States -
0:20 - 0:24by BoilingFrogsPost.com founder
and editor Sibel Edmonds, -
0:24 - 0:28our good friend who has been
on this podcast many times before. -
0:28 - 0:30So Sibel, thank you so much
for taking the time today. -
0:32 - 0:32Sure.
-
0:32 - 0:35This is gonna be a very,
very interesting interview. -
0:35 - 0:37I've been looking forward to this...
-
0:37 - 0:38to this interview.
-
0:38 - 0:40Me, too; but it is a bit overwhelming.
-
0:40 - 0:42It's almost intimidating,
-
0:42 - 0:45because the topic we're talking about
is so large, so vast, -
0:45 - 0:47involves so many characters
-
0:47 - 0:50that a lot of the audience
probably won't be familiar with, -
0:50 - 0:53that it's a bit daunting
to know where to even begin with this. -
0:53 - 0:54So I guess we should explain
-
0:54 - 0:57that we're picking up from a conversation
-
0:57 - 1:00that I had with Tom Secker
a week or two ago on The Corbett Report -
1:00 - 1:03talking about Gladio
and the history of Operation Gladio, -
1:03 - 1:05the NATO stay-behind operation.
-
1:05 - 1:10So people who want more
on the details of Gladio itself -
1:10 - 1:12and its history
as a historical entity in Europe -
1:12 - 1:14might want to check out
that conversation. -
1:14 - 1:16But today we're going to be
picking up from that -
1:16 - 1:19to talk about specifically
how Gladio unfolded, -
1:19 - 1:21and morphed into
what it currently is in Turkey. -
1:23 - 1:24And how it's operating...
-
1:25 - 1:27-- well, how it's basically morphed
-
1:27 - 1:30into a different type of operation,
-
1:30 - 1:31but is using a lot of the same strategies
-
1:31 - 1:32and methods to continue...
-
1:32 - 1:34-- well, moving into different areas
-
1:34 - 1:37such as false-flag terrorism
in the Islamic terrorism context, -
1:37 - 1:38and also drug-running.
-
1:38 - 1:41It's, again, a huge subject to tackle.
-
1:41 - 1:43So perhaps we should start
-
1:43 - 1:44by talking about the way
-
1:44 - 1:46that the NATO stay-behind
Gladio operation -
1:47 - 1:48was transported to Turkey,
-
1:48 - 1:51and they way
that it originally started there, -
1:51 - 1:53as a ultranationalist...
-
1:53 - 1:55or, a way to puppeteer
the ultranationalists -
1:55 - 1:57in their terrorist movement.
-
2:00 - 2:03Sure. One slight correction,
-
2:03 - 2:04and that is:
-
2:04 - 2:07the field of operation for Gladio,
-
2:07 - 2:09well, is pretty much global,
-
2:09 - 2:11with a large concentration...
-
2:11 - 2:17-- main concentration in the last,
I would say, 15, 16 years -- -
2:17 - 2:21Central Asia, Caucasus,
and the Balkans. -
2:21 - 2:23And it started with the Balkans.
-
2:23 - 2:26So the field of operation
-
2:26 - 2:28actually has nothing to do
with Turkey itself. -
2:28 - 2:31There is really nothing;
because Turkey is where the powers -
2:31 - 2:35-- that being NATO, US,
United Kingdom -- -
2:35 - 2:38where they want
-- these countries want -- to be. -
2:38 - 2:40That's for Turkey.
-
2:40 - 2:43So the fields of operation
are basically Central Asia... -
2:44 - 2:47-- the former Soviet bloc
space, basically. -
2:47 - 2:52And the operations control centers...
-
2:52 - 2:54of course, the main one,
-
2:54 - 2:57the top layer being in the United States,
-
2:57 - 2:59with major arteries connecting it
to United Kingdom; to Britain; -
3:02 - 3:04and you have Belgium;
-
3:04 - 3:07and then you have Turkey.
-
3:07 - 3:09So -- being in, maybe, the primary;
-
3:09 - 3:10then the secondary;
-
3:10 - 3:13and then the third layer being in Turkey
-
3:13 - 3:17via Turkish actors there:
-
3:17 - 3:20both military
-- not nearly as much any longer -- -
3:20 - 3:24but also by very large...
-
3:25 - 3:26what they refer to
as the "Islamic factions," -
3:30 - 3:32several different Islamic factions.
-
3:32 - 3:34Well, I stand happily
corrected on that point. -
3:34 - 3:37And you're right to bring that out:
-
3:37 - 3:39Of course the field of operations
-
3:39 - 3:41is all over that Central Asia/Caucasus
region. -
3:41 - 3:43And we have talked
about this a little bit -
3:43 - 3:45in some of our previous
conversations. -
3:45 - 3:46But today, let's hone in
on some of the characters and people -
3:46 - 3:48who have been connected to this.
-
3:48 - 3:50And there are lots of things to talk about.
-
3:50 - 3:53I'm not sure where you want to start,
-
3:53 - 3:55but there are, of course,
operations like the Grey Wolves -
3:55 - 3:58and others that have been in Turkey
for decades; -
3:58 - 4:01that have done this type
of operation in the past, -
4:01 - 4:04and characters like Abdullah Çatlı,
-
4:04 - 4:06who has been involved in this,
-
4:06 - 4:07and who has been all over,
in a very interesting life -
4:10 - 4:13that ended in the Susurluk scandal
in 1996 -
4:13 - 4:16-- in quite an interesting fashion.
-
4:16 - 4:18I'm not sure where you want
to start that story, -
4:18 - 4:21but perhaps you could paint a picture
for the listeners -
4:21 - 4:24about how this really developed,
-
4:24 - 4:27and where it went
up until that point in the mid-1990s. -
4:27 - 4:29Sure.
-
4:29 - 4:35Turkey always was
the most important center, country, -
4:35 - 4:37in all this, Gladio operations,
-
4:37 - 4:40before the fall of the Soviet Union.
-
4:40 - 4:42It's interesting,
-
4:45 - 4:46because when I go and read
what's available to public online -
4:46 - 4:50-- which is very, very little on Gladio:
that's why I was ecstatic -
4:50 - 4:54when you had your interview on Gladio
a week ago -- -
4:54 - 4:55and what you see
is usually things like Italy. -
4:57 - 4:59It's, like, Gladio and Italy,
and how it unfolded, -
5:00 - 5:02how it was disbanded,
et cetera, et cetera. -
5:03 - 5:06But you don't see much on Turkey,
-
5:06 - 5:09and Turkey was the most important,
-
5:09 - 5:11the most importan
operations center for Gladio. -
5:14 - 5:18And obviously, it's because of,
a.) its geographic location: -
5:21 - 5:24Just take a look at Turkey on the map.
-
5:24 - 5:25And if you're looking
for that period of time -
5:27 - 5:30before the fall of the Soviet Union,
-
5:30 - 5:32from the Black Sea it goes eastern:
-
5:32 - 5:35you're looking at all
the former Soviet blocs in there. -
5:35 - 5:37And then, again, its position
within the Middle East, -
5:40 - 5:44and the other side
being connected to Europe. -
5:44 - 5:48So Turkey always had the most position
-
5:48 - 5:51within this Gladio operation until...
-
5:51 - 5:55before the fall of the Soviet Union;
and that you don't see. -
5:57 - 5:59There are very few articles
written out there scattered. -
6:01 - 6:03There's one good one
by Le Monde [Diplomatique] -
6:03 - 6:05which was concentrating mainly
on the actors you just mentioned: -
6:08 - 6:11Abdullah Çatlı and Susurluk incident.
-
6:11 - 6:13And you have couple of authors
in Switzerland and in England -
6:13 - 6:18who have written about this.
-
6:18 - 6:21Nothing: nothing here,
in the United States, on that. -
6:21 - 6:25So, I'll give you a little bit of history,
-
6:25 - 6:27because you covered a lot of this
with your previous guest. -
6:30 - 6:33But this history
is going to concentrate more -
6:33 - 6:36on the character
that we're gonna be talking about -
6:36 - 6:39and the Turkish side on this:
-
6:39 - 6:41Gladio operations,
until the fall of the Soviet Union. -
6:44 - 6:45And in Turkey,
there were two prime groups -
6:48 - 6:52that were working within Gladio network
-
6:53 - 6:55and carrying out some of
ghe most important operations: -
6:55 - 6:57in Western Europe;
in Northern Europe; -
6:58 - 7:00and mainly in Eastern Bloc.
-
7:01 - 7:02And that was:
-
7:02 - 7:071.) The formal, official Turkish military.
-
7:07 - 7:08And that is made up:
-
7:10 - 7:12both Turkish military
and the Turkish military intelligence, -
7:12 - 7:16directly connected to NATO, Brussels,
-
7:16 - 7:18and within the Gladio operations.
-
7:18 - 7:21But then, beneath the military
-- Turkish official military -- -
7:22 - 7:26you had the paramilitary force.
-
7:26 - 7:27Who were these people?
-
7:27 - 7:31And that's very, very interesting.
These people... -
7:31 - 7:33Again, you look at some of the articles,
-
7:33 - 7:35and people talking about it:
yeah, they are saying, -
7:35 - 7:37"They are ultranationalists."
-
7:38 - 7:40But what kind of jobs did they have?
-
7:40 - 7:43Who were these people
who were recruited by Turkish military, -
7:43 - 7:45trained, and absorbed into NATO's...
-
7:45 - 7:46-- US/NATO's --
Gladio operations? -
7:47 - 7:51Well, a lot of these people, actually:
in 1980s, they were in jail. -
7:52 - 7:55They had positions that were...
-
7:55 - 7:57the best way to describe them
would be the Godfathers in Turkey. -
7:59 - 8:00"Babas."
-
8:00 - 8:02That's how they refer to them in Turkey:
-
8:02 - 8:05the babas,
which means the Godfathers. -
8:05 - 8:07They were the top people
who ran blackmail, heroin operations. -
8:13 - 8:15And even back then, it was...
-
8:15 - 8:16Turkey has always been
the most important artery -
8:18 - 8:21in moving heroin into Europe,
-
8:22 - 8:23whether it came
through the borders through Iran, -
8:25 - 8:28or it came via some Kurdish factions
coming through Iraq... -
8:29 - 8:32So, Turkey has always been important.
-
8:32 - 8:34And these babas ran...
-
8:34 - 8:36-- and military did, too;
Turkish military did, too -- -
8:36 - 8:39but they were also ultranationalists;
-
8:39 - 8:41but they were
secularist ultranationalists. -
8:41 - 8:44They put Atatürk...
-
8:44 - 8:48-- the father of Turkey;
the father of modern Turkey -- -
8:48 - 8:50in, basically, the place of God.
-
8:50 - 8:51And of course,
Atatürk advocated secularism -
8:54 - 8:55-- forced secularism.
-
8:55 - 8:58And I have to emphasize this:
forced secularism. -
8:58 - 8:59And these guys,
even when I was growing up in Turkey, -
9:01 - 9:03they were very easy to identify.
-
9:03 - 9:06They usually wore this mustache
-
9:06 - 9:09that really resembled
the Hitler mustache, -
9:09 - 9:11and they had salutes that were like...
-
9:11 - 9:14for Grey Wolves, that was like this:
-
9:14 - 9:17And their babas were in jail.
-
9:17 - 9:19And these guys had informants all over:
-
9:19 - 9:21not only in Turkey, but in elsewhere.
-
9:22 - 9:25So, as part of Gladio's plan,
-
9:26 - 9:29Turkish military, Turkish police,
Turkish intelligence forces: -
9:29 - 9:31they took all these notorious...
-
9:32 - 9:35-- I mean, these are psychopaths,
sociopaths! -
9:35 - 9:38these people are mass-murderers --
-
9:38 - 9:40they took them out of those prisons.
-
9:40 - 9:42And they said, "You know what?
Now you are going to... -
9:44 - 9:47-- with your skills, with what you do,
with what you know -- -
9:47 - 9:49you are going to serve the State."
-
9:49 - 9:51And that is Turkey,
and the Great Turkishness. -
9:54 - 9:58And Great Turkishness is also
being protected by the West, -
9:58 - 9:59because, "The Communist is out there:
-
9:59 - 10:01They're gonna take us over."
-
10:01 - 10:03Then we have these issues
with the Kurdish people... -
10:03 - 10:06And meanwhile, you can also
fill out your own pockets. -
10:06 - 10:09You can still be big;
you can still be Godfather; -
10:09 - 10:11but your main role...
-
10:11 - 10:15-- and this is why we are releasing you,
bringing you out -- -
10:16 - 10:18is going to be serving us
for all these operations" -
10:19 - 10:21So these guys were removed,
-
10:21 - 10:24they were sent to various centers,
including in Brussels. -
10:24 - 10:28And they received training,
both via Turkish military, -
10:28 - 10:31via US-NATO forces...
-
10:32 - 10:35And they were given diplomatic passports.
-
10:36 - 10:39Not only Turkish passports,
but passports from various countries. -
10:41 - 10:45And they still moved...
-
10:45 - 10:48worked in the area
where you move heroin; -
10:48 - 10:51but also weapons smuggling,
-
10:51 - 10:55mass murders,
a lot of false flag attacks. -
10:55 - 10:57Not only inside Turkey,
-
10:57 - 10:59but in other countries as well.
-
11:00 - 11:02And again, your guest
talked about some of these: -
11:02 - 11:05the assassination attempts,
the Pope, et cetera, et cetera. -
11:05 - 11:08And they also filled out
their own pockets. -
11:08 - 11:11So, these were the characters.
-
11:11 - 11:12Now, it's very interesting:
-
11:12 - 11:15You'd say...
-- or, a lot of people would say -- -
11:15 - 11:18"Well, this was before:
during Communism. -
11:20 - 11:22And we also did things with mujahideens
-
11:22 - 11:24and Bin Laden in Afghanistan."
-
11:24 - 11:25And, also:
"It deals a lot with Turkish politics, -
11:27 - 11:31so why should that interest people
here in the United States?" -
11:31 - 11:33And... because this is as much
as they know, -
11:33 - 11:36or they read, or they hear.
-
11:36 - 11:40So, what happens after the fall
of the Soviet Union? -
11:40 - 11:43Well, the character you just mentioned,
Abdullah Çatlı: -
11:44 - 11:47he's one of the main foot-soldiers,
-
11:47 - 11:49one of the main commandos
under the military -
11:50 - 11:51-- which is Turkish military;
-
11:51 - 11:54which is under NATO
and the United States. -
11:54 - 11:56One of the most notorious figures.
-
11:56 - 11:58I mean, this guy was responsible,
in and outside Turkey, -
11:59 - 12:02of tens of thousands of murders.
-
12:02 - 12:03Bombs...
-
12:06 - 12:07in some cases they would just
storm a house -
12:07 - 12:09with medical students in Turkey
-
12:09 - 12:10and they would cut everybody's heads.
-
12:10 - 12:13And those people were accused
-
12:13 - 12:17of advocating for socialism or communism.
-
12:17 - 12:18This guy, he actually ends up
on the list of most wanted... -
12:23 - 12:26-- INTERPOL's most wanted list, OK? --
-
12:26 - 12:27for various reasons.
-
12:27 - 12:28Murders...
-
12:28 - 12:30international murders,
not only murders in Turkey. -
12:30 - 12:34We are looking at INTERPOL's
most wanted, right? -
12:34 - 12:36Heroin smuggling, weapons smuggling...
-
12:36 - 12:40So he's on the top ten most wanted people;
-
12:40 - 12:43and this is post-Soviet Union.
-
12:43 - 12:46And he ends up in a jail,
-
12:46 - 12:49in a high-security prison in Switzerland.
-
12:49 - 12:53He gets arrested during
one of his movement's operations. -
12:53 - 12:55And when you look
at some of the reporting on this guy -
12:58 - 13:00-- including the newspapers,
-
13:00 - 13:02or the articles written
on the Grey Wolves -- -
13:02 - 13:04it says:
-
13:04 - 13:06while he was in this high-security prison
in Switzerland -
13:06 - 13:09-- this is Abdullah Çatlı --
-
13:09 - 13:11he escaped.
-
13:11 - 13:12He actually escaped
by support of helicopter. -
13:16 - 13:18So you're in a high-security prison
in Switzerland -
13:19 - 13:22and you mysteriously escape
via helicopter. -
13:24 - 13:26And some more detailed stories
-
13:28 - 13:30from very few reporters who followed up
and wrote on this: -
13:30 - 13:32and that was a NATO-owned helicopter!
-
13:32 - 13:35I mean, this really sounds
like a movie plot, -
13:35 - 13:37something that Hollywood would make.
-
13:37 - 13:38And so, yeah:
this is the most wanted INTERPOL guy. -
13:40 - 13:43It gets even stranger:
-
13:43 - 13:44Same guy, while still wanted
after he escapes -
13:48 - 13:51-- NATO helicopter
from high-security Swiss prison -- -
13:51 - 13:55he mysteriously ends up in England.
In London. OK? -
13:57 - 14:00And again, mysteriously,
in 1989, the government -
14:03 - 14:04-- UK government --
grants him citizenship! -
14:05 - 14:07Hah!
-
14:07 - 14:09It's not even one year
since he enters the UK. -
14:09 - 14:13He is still the most wanted
on INTERPOL's list. -
14:14 - 14:16And then, within a year after that,
-
14:16 - 14:19this same guy, Abdullah Çatlı,
-
14:19 - 14:21flies over, comes to the United States
-
14:21 - 14:23-- and this is around 1990, 1991 --
-
14:23 - 14:25comes to Chicago,
-
14:25 - 14:27and is mysteriously given
an American passport! -
14:29 - 14:33-- an American Green Card;
this is not passport yet -- -
14:34 - 14:35And during all this time,
-
14:35 - 14:41he is among the top ten
most wanted people by INTERPOL. -
14:41 - 14:44Now, the first question
people should ask... -
14:44 - 14:45-- especially those who say,
-
14:45 - 14:47"Ah, this is about some...
during Cold War and Communism, -
14:49 - 14:52and it's Turkish internal politics...":
-
14:52 - 14:55Why the most wanted guy by Interpol
-
14:55 - 14:58-- a notorious murderer, drug-runner --
-
14:59 - 15:00ends up in England, of all the places,
and gets a citizenship? -
15:02 - 15:04Why he comes to the United States
-
15:04 - 15:07and is given another citizenship?
-
15:07 - 15:09So, that's the first questions
listeners should be asking. -
15:11 - 15:16And, why Chicago is where he settles?
-
15:16 - 15:18-- and that's where he settles;
and when he settles there, -
15:18 - 15:19he has dozens of entries and exits
from Chicago. -
15:22 - 15:24And after the Susurluk scandal
-- which, I'm gonna get into it -- -
15:26 - 15:28it basically comes out,
-
15:28 - 15:32with all those investigations
they had in Turkey -
15:32 - 15:34that from Chicago,
-
15:34 - 15:37he carried out all these operations
in Central Asia, Caucasus, -
15:40 - 15:41Eastern Europe,
Xinjiang province of China. -
15:44 - 15:45So, he kept flying
-
15:45 - 15:48-- while he's still most wanted
by INTERPOL. -
15:48 - 15:51We don't know how and why
he got all those citizenships -
15:51 - 15:53while he's most wanted,
-
15:53 - 15:54and why he carried
four or five diplomatic passports. -
15:57 - 15:58Nobody gets into those questions.
-
15:58 - 16:00And these diplomatic passports
are not, only, given to him -
16:01 - 16:03by government of Turkey.
-
16:04 - 16:08So he... one of his trips...
-- again, this is very well-documented -- -
16:08 - 16:10This is not conspiracy theory.
-
16:10 - 16:12This is not some Top Secret
classified documents any longer, -
16:13 - 16:15because this stuff all came out
during this... -
16:16 - 16:17after this scandal in Turkey.
-
16:18 - 16:18So he... in 1996, 1995,
he is the one -
16:22 - 16:25who goes to Azerbaijan from Chicago.
-
16:25 - 16:28Via Turkey: goes to Azerbaijan.
-
16:28 - 16:30With a team of several people
-- less than a dozen -- -
16:31 - 16:33he carries out this
attempted assassination against Aliyev. -
16:38 - 16:40This is the Aliyev Senior,
-
16:40 - 16:42before his son became
the President of Azerbaijan. -
16:45 - 16:48And it was meant to be an "attempted,"
that would not succeed. -
16:51 - 16:53Because if you look
at Azerbaijan's position -
16:53 - 16:55during that same time
-- 1994 to 1996 -- -
16:58 - 17:01before this assassination attempt,
-
17:01 - 17:03you would see that Aliyev
was still siding with Russia. -
17:06 - 17:09It was still the old loyalties:
the old loyalties of, -
17:11 - 17:15"We were part of the Soviet Union,
-
17:15 - 17:18and we are still siding with Russia."
-
17:18 - 17:22Now, this is when the United States,
-- the West -- -
17:22 - 17:24was trying by its proxy, Turkey...
-
17:24 - 17:26Why Turkey? They speak Turkish.
-
17:27 - 17:30What language do they speak
in these countries, including Azerbaijan? -
17:30 - 17:31Turkish.
-
17:31 - 17:32They are Muslim:
-
17:32 - 17:34What's the religion in Azerbaijan
and all these ex-Soviet blocs? -
17:37 - 17:38Muslims.
-
17:38 - 17:41So: this was the ideal proxy
to go grab countries -
17:43 - 17:45like Tajikistan, and Kyrgyzstan,
and Azerbaijan, and say: -
17:49 - 17:52"OK: Say bye-bye to Russia.
We want you to be one of us." -
17:52 - 17:54Right?
-
17:54 - 17:56Well, of course, Russia
was doing its part from the other side. -
17:58 - 18:00So during this period
when this assassination attempt occurred, -
18:02 - 18:04Aliyev Senior
-- the President in Azerbaijan -- -
18:06 - 18:08still was loyal to Russia.
-
18:08 - 18:10And all these different attempts
to move him to the other side -
18:11 - 18:13had not been successful;
-
18:14 - 18:16so they moved to plans
that included assassination attempt, -
18:19 - 18:21paired up with blackmails.
-
18:21 - 18:22Because, again: during this time,
-
18:23 - 18:24the doors, the borders were open
in Azerbaijan. -
18:26 - 18:28A lot of these Turkish babas,
Godfathers, moved in there, -
18:30 - 18:33and they opened really lavish,
interesting casinos. -
18:33 - 18:35You'd say, "Casinos? Azerbaijan?"
-
18:35 - 18:36Yeah!
-
18:36 - 18:37And, guess what?
-
18:37 - 18:39Several of Aliyev's family
-
18:41 - 18:43were given advance offerings
in these casinos, -
18:43 - 18:45and they collected a lot of debt
-
18:46 - 18:49-- and this is people very close
to Aliyev Senior. -
18:49 - 18:51And they started
getting death threats, saying, -
18:51 - 18:54"Well, if you don't pay off
these millions-and-millions dollars -
18:54 - 18:57of debt in your casino gambling debt,
we're gonna take you out." -
18:58 - 19:00Then comes the assassination attempt.
-
19:01 - 19:04So, again: if people were to go
and look at the records -
19:04 - 19:06on this assassination attempt on Aliyev,
-
19:06 - 19:09they would see Abdullah Çatlı's name.
-
19:09 - 19:12They would see that Aliyev
came out and said, -
19:12 - 19:14"The people responsible for this
were NATO/US via Turkey." -
19:17 - 19:19And the Turkish President
calling and saying, -
19:19 - 19:21"No, these were the thugs,
the mafia people: -
19:21 - 19:24they have nothing to do with us!"
-
19:24 - 19:26All these denials.
-
19:26 - 19:28Whatever happened, is...
-
19:28 - 19:31Aliyev very quickly switched position
-
19:31 - 19:34after this assassination attempt, OK?
-
19:34 - 19:36You fast-forward, look at Azerbaijan:
-
19:36 - 19:37Since 1996,
-
19:37 - 19:40Azerbaijan's been the closest ally
of the United States and NATO. -
19:43 - 19:46In fact, they are becoming a NATO member.
-
19:47 - 19:48For the last eight years,
-
19:48 - 19:50NATO has been there with a base,
training them. -
19:50 - 19:52They've been passing the tests.
-
19:52 - 19:54They went from purchasing
something like $25 million worth -
19:54 - 19:59of weapons from the United States,
-
19:59 - 20:05today to something like $4...
three-and-a-half, $4 billions of... -
20:05 - 20:09four billion dollars of US weapons.
-
20:09 - 20:12So: success! Gladio was successful.
-
20:12 - 20:14It was... who carried it out?
-
20:14 - 20:15Abdullah Çatlı.
-
20:15 - 20:18After he finished, he just shook his hand
-
20:18 - 20:20and said, "OK, mission accomplished."
-
20:20 - 20:21Came back again to Chicago.
-
20:22 - 20:25Now, I'm going
to open a parenthesis here and say, -
20:25 - 20:27remember: for the past 11, 12 years,
-
20:27 - 20:29I've been talking about the center
of all these operations -
20:31 - 20:33that have to do
with my State Secrets Privilege, -
20:33 - 20:35and people involved,
was in Chicago. -
20:36 - 20:38I have been saying "Chicago"
so many times! -
20:38 - 20:40So I don't believe anyone is...
-
20:40 - 20:42-- at least not your listeners, or mine --
-
20:43 - 20:44who haven't heard this:
me saying, "Chicago, Chicago." -
20:45 - 20:47So: he went back to Chicago.
This was one of his trips. -
20:48 - 20:50His other trips included
going from the other side, -
20:52 - 20:53through the Pacific: going to China.
-
20:54 - 20:55And then, from there,
going to this area, Xinjiang. -
20:57 - 20:59This is extremely important.
-
20:59 - 21:02Again, Xinjiang: Muslim population.
-
21:02 - 21:04And they are referred to...
-
21:04 - 21:06-- in Turkey, they don't call them
Xinjiang. -
21:07 - 21:09It's "[East] Turkestan."
-
21:09 - 21:10[East] Turkestan.
-
21:10 - 21:12They speak Turkic dialect.
-
21:12 - 21:13Guess what?
-
21:13 - 21:15Up there? A great place!
-
21:16 - 21:19Imagine, they get their independence:
-
21:19 - 21:22We can have our little mini base there!
-
21:22 - 21:24You know how close we are to China?
-
21:24 - 21:27I mean, on one hand you can say,
'Yeah, there's Taiwan out there.' -
21:27 - 21:30Well, this is going to be
even more important than Taiwan! -
21:30 - 21:31And then, look again:
-
21:31 - 21:34the other important strategic location
for Xinjiang -
21:36 - 21:39-- for [East] Turkestan,
a.k.a. Uyghuristan -- -
21:39 - 21:42You look out there: you see Pakistan;
you see Afghanistan. -
21:42 - 21:45This is a very important region.
-
21:45 - 21:49This has been
a very important region, prize, -
21:49 - 21:51for the United States, for the West.
-
21:51 - 21:52We've been...
we've been doing a lot of things there. -
21:54 - 21:55Every time you hear...
-
21:56 - 21:58-- at least when I was working there,
-
21:58 - 22:00during this period that FBI
was investigating these... -
22:02 - 22:04-- not operations there, but people here:
-
22:04 - 22:05the criminals in the US
who carried out the operations there. -
22:08 - 22:10Those terrorist attacks:
-
22:12 - 22:14they were orchestrated
from a long distance. -
22:14 - 22:16You go to Turkey;
-
22:16 - 22:18Then, from Turkey, you go to Brussels;
-
22:18 - 22:19to England;
-
22:19 - 22:21and then you go to the United States.
-
22:21 - 22:23So, all the orchestration:
-
22:23 - 22:24it's not some minorities
or some Muslims get together, -
22:24 - 22:26suddenly they go and...
-
22:26 - 22:28It doesn't happen.
-
22:28 - 22:29It didn't happen that way,
at least during that period. -
22:31 - 22:32And this guy from Chicago
was sent to go and organize, -
22:36 - 22:39carry out a couple of terrorism,
uprising events: -
22:41 - 22:41turn around,
back to Chicago again. -
22:43 - 22:44Back to Chicago again.
-
22:45 - 22:47So: NATO, the Gladio operation,
-
22:49 - 22:51via Turkish military
-
22:51 - 22:56and Turkish Godfather-ultranationalist-
criminal-thug paramilitary, -
22:57 - 23:01continued until around 1996.
-
23:01 - 23:03Towards the period...
-- like, 1994 to 1996 -- -
23:06 - 23:07the decision-makers...
-- the top layers of NATO, the US: -
23:10 - 23:14what we usually refer to
as "shadow government," "the powers" -- -
23:14 - 23:16they were having this debate.
-
23:16 - 23:20They were having this...
two options in front of them. -
23:20 - 23:22Two plans: which one is better?
-
23:22 - 23:24One is what they did
before the fall of the Soviet Union: -
23:26 - 23:29and that was using ultranationalism
-- fascism, OK? -- -
23:31 - 23:33against the Soviet Union;
against Communism. -
23:35 - 23:38Versus, what they have already seen
-
23:38 - 23:43as a very successful, successful plan:
-
23:43 - 23:451.) They saw it in Afghanistan
-
23:45 - 23:47with the mujahideens,
Bin Laden group. -
23:47 - 23:48But then, recently...
-- and this is 1994, 1995, 1996 -- -
23:52 - 23:55they were seeing its use
again and again: -
23:55 - 23:58in the Balkans,
in the Kosovo region, in Bosnia. -
24:01 - 24:04And this is when we have
all these mujahideen: -
24:04 - 24:07Bin Laden, Zawahiri...
-- think about it, you know? -- -
24:07 - 24:10factions from Egypt,
Saudi Arabia, Pakistan: -
24:11 - 24:12bringing them to Turkey.
-
24:12 - 24:14Train them; bring them over there.
-
24:14 - 24:15It was, like:
-
24:16 - 24:19"You know, these ultranationalists:
-
24:19 - 24:22they haven't been very productive.
-
24:22 - 24:25And we think the mujahideen
Islamist factions -
24:25 - 24:27are gonna much more useful
in our main objective of taking over: -
24:30 - 24:34having more of these ex-Soviet blocs
on our side." -
24:34 - 24:36OK? On our side.
-
24:36 - 24:40So this is... during this,
sometimes we use them; -
24:40 - 24:46sometimes we use
the fascist Godfather ultranationalists. -
24:46 - 24:49But then, in nineteen... end of 1996,
-
24:49 - 24:52Abdullah Çatlı
-
24:52 - 24:55-- the man we've been
talking about; the thug, -
24:55 - 24:57who went through Xinjiang
and all this stuff -- -
24:57 - 24:59he comes to Turkey for another mission
-
24:59 - 25:01that he was gonna go and implement.
-
25:01 - 25:04However, while he's in Turkey,
-
25:04 - 25:06together with some beauty queen
and a few other colleagues: -
25:09 - 25:09they are in Turkey;
they are traveling in this black Mercedes; -
25:11 - 25:13and they have a car crash, and...
-
25:15 - 25:17they die.
-
25:17 - 25:20Everyone in the car
-- except one guy -- -
25:20 - 25:22dies, right?
-
25:22 - 25:24Well, before the Turkish police
or military got to the bodies, -
25:26 - 25:27the local police
-
25:27 - 25:30-- that wouldn't know anything
about who were these people -- -
25:30 - 25:32and the local journalists
got to the scene. -
25:34 - 25:36And, lo and behold:
here is the world's most wanted man, -
25:38 - 25:43Abdullah Çatlı, the great Godfather,
-
25:43 - 25:46with all his diplomatic passports
with him. -
25:46 - 25:47But, not only that:
together with him, -
25:48 - 25:51you have the Chief of Police of Turkey.
-
25:51 - 25:53I mean, the top police guy.
-
25:53 - 25:57You have incredibly important
legit political figures. -
25:57 - 25:59It was like, "WTF, woman!"
-
25:59 - 26:03"What are they doing in the car
with this guy?" -- Died. -
26:03 - 26:04Basically, this was...
well, in Turkey -
26:05 - 26:08-- even though it had been leaked
in little bits and pieces -- -
26:08 - 26:10it was this huge exposure of the thugs
-
26:12 - 26:15-- criminal, ultranationalist fascists --
-
26:15 - 26:17actually working with
-- and for -- -
26:17 - 26:19the Turkish government.
-
26:19 - 26:20And for right now, I'm gonna keep it...
-
26:20 - 26:21"Turkish government:"
that is, the Turkish military; -
26:23 - 26:26the Turkish...
the legit Turkish institutions, right? -
26:27 - 26:29So, all the drug-running they were doing,
-
26:29 - 26:30they were all controlled
and managed by the state. -
26:33 - 26:36And all the killings, the terrorisms
-
26:36 - 26:39that they're found responsible for:
-
26:39 - 26:43again, they were executed for the state.
-
26:44 - 26:46This was huge in Turkey.
-
26:46 - 26:48It caused an uproar.
-
26:48 - 26:50A lot of documents started leaking.
-
26:51 - 26:53Just like "9/11 Commission,"
-
26:53 - 26:55there was this huge commission
established in Turkey. -
26:56 - 26:58Nobody talked about anything else
-
26:58 - 27:01but this Susurluk...
they called it "Susurluk Scandal" -
27:01 - 27:02because the car accident
took place in Susurluk. -
27:04 - 27:06Now: there was this fear by the West
-
27:09 - 27:12-- and this is the United States,
the Europeans -- -
27:12 - 27:13like, "Uh-Oh!"
-
27:13 - 27:16"Now, we know that a lot
of these commission members, -
27:16 - 27:18they are like ours: Thomas Kean, and...
-
27:18 - 27:19but, some of them...
-- or, by default -- -
27:21 - 27:23a lot of other"
-- excuse my language -- -
27:23 - 27:25"crap may come out
about our roles, the stuff we did." -
27:28 - 27:30"We" being the ultimate bosses.
-
27:31 - 27:32And guess what happened?
-
27:33 - 27:38One of the Turkish Gladio handlers
in Turkey was an ambassador, -
27:40 - 27:44United States Ambassador
in Turkey at the time. -
27:44 - 27:47This guy was Ambassador from 1992
-
27:47 - 27:49until the Susurluk scandal:
-
27:49 - 27:53no other guy than Marc Grossman:
-
27:53 - 27:57the guy... I have been saying
for the past five [years]: -
27:57 - 28:00"You've got to look at Marc Grossman."
-
28:00 - 28:04So, with this fear that a lot of secrets
-- state secrets -- -
28:04 - 28:06were going to get out during this:
-
28:06 - 28:08investigations, and journalists digging in;
-
28:08 - 28:10some people were leaking;
some people were talking. -
28:11 - 28:16The United States, right away,
got their man out of Turkey: -
28:16 - 28:17Marc Grossman.
-
28:17 - 28:18No reason cited.
-
28:18 - 28:20He still had another one-and-a-half,
two years left. -
28:20 - 28:22No reason cited.
-
28:22 - 28:23Guess who else was pulled?
-
28:23 - 28:26Another guy who was handling
the Operation Gladio, -
28:27 - 28:28the Turkish militants
in Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan. -
28:31 - 28:32This man, his name:
-
28:32 - 28:34-- at the time, a Major --
Major Douglas Dickerson. -
28:36 - 28:37This is the man...
-
28:37 - 28:39-- if you have read my book;
if you know my case -- -
28:40 - 28:42was the one who was married
to this spy in the FBI. -
28:44 - 28:46Major Douglas Dickerson:
-
28:46 - 28:48he still had one-and-a-half years left.
-
28:48 - 28:50He was working for Marc Grossman
in Ankara. -
28:50 - 28:54His main task under NATO
was operations... -
28:55 - 28:58Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan.
-
28:58 - 29:01There were three or four countries
that he directed, -
29:01 - 29:04the Turkish paramilitary
Gladio operations in those countries. -
29:04 - 29:06Lo and behold: the same man
-- this is documented -- -
29:07 - 29:10he is pulled off of his position
-
29:10 - 29:13and immediately sent
to a base in Germany -
29:13 - 29:16-- this is American military base --
and from there to Brussels. -
29:16 - 29:18Hah! This is interesting!
-
29:19 - 29:20Now, these characters
-
29:20 - 29:23-- that've been talked about
in my case for 12 years -- -
29:23 - 29:25were there in 1997.
-
29:25 - 29:27Susurluk happens:
they were pulled out. -
29:27 - 29:30So was the top military man...
-
29:31 - 29:33-- and this was the top man
for the Turkish -
29:34 - 29:38so-called "counterterrorism"
operations commando -- -
29:38 - 29:41was sent on a mission
to Washington, DC Turkish Embassy. -
29:41 - 29:46-- and again, this is documented --
-
29:46 - 29:48Right after Susurluk,
they had to get him out. -
29:48 - 29:50He was a chief guy in the military
-
29:50 - 29:52overseeing these thugs
and these operations: -
29:52 - 29:56these false terror,
false flag operations. -
29:56 - 29:57Not only in Turkey:
Central Asia, Caucasus; -
29:59 - 30:02a lot of Chechen operations;
Eastern Europe. -
30:03 - 30:05So, he was pulled;
he was sent to Washington, DC. -
30:06 - 30:07He never went back.
-
30:08 - 30:09Again, nobody cited any reason.
-
30:09 - 30:11They took all these important figures:
-
30:11 - 30:14they took them to Brussels,
-
30:14 - 30:16and they took them to Washington, DC.
-
30:17 - 30:19And...
-
30:19 - 30:20then it was the decision-making time
-
30:22 - 30:25for the "top guys in the world..."
-- For NATO, US, UK -- -
30:27 - 30:28saying:
-
30:28 - 30:30"Too much exposure.
-
30:30 - 30:32This chapter is closed.
-
30:32 - 30:33Gladio is not closed:
-
30:33 - 30:35We are going to Plan B,
-
30:35 - 30:37Gladio Plan B operations...
-
30:37 - 30:41which... we have already prepared
for it some, to some extent. -
30:41 - 30:42And that is:
we are not gonna use paramilitary; -
30:46 - 30:49we're gonna use Islamist factions.
-
30:49 - 30:52Who? a.k.a. mujahideens.
a.k.a. al-Qaeda. -
30:56 - 30:59- Sibel: So... this is, again...
- James: OK, let's... so... -
30:59 - 31:01(Sibel) Just think about Bosnia.
-
31:01 - 31:04(James) OK, that's
an incredible amount of information; -
31:04 - 31:06so just to be absolutely clear:
-
31:06 - 31:09I think it is clear that you're saying
that the Susurluk scandal -
31:09 - 31:12and what happened to Çatlı was not...
-
31:12 - 31:14that was not something
they wanted to happen; -
31:14 - 31:16that was not something that was planned:
-
31:16 - 31:18He was not taken out of the picture,
-
31:18 - 31:19but it was as a as a result of his death
-
31:19 - 31:21that they switched to Plan B?
-
31:21 - 31:22They weren't going to switch to Plan B
until that happened? -
31:25 - 31:27Nobody knows the answer to that,
-
31:29 - 31:31because there are so many
questions surrounding this accident. -
31:31 - 31:33First of all, how this guy, unscratched,
-
31:33 - 31:36walked out of the car, OK?
-
31:36 - 31:38And there were also
some questions about... -
31:38 - 31:40that they may have been,
actually, dead before the accident. -
31:40 - 31:42Because there was this autopsy report
-
31:42 - 31:45that their heads, a few of them,
were broken: -
31:45 - 31:49before the crash.
-
31:49 - 31:52So, nobody knows who's responsible.
-
31:52 - 31:55Was that staged?
If so, which faction? -
31:55 - 32:00Is it something that...
OK, the top guy said, -
32:00 - 32:03"We want to eventually
eliminate these guys," -
32:03 - 32:06"because they are in some ways
out of control: -
32:07 - 32:09we want to go to Plan B?"
-
32:09 - 32:10Was it someone else? We don't know.
-
32:10 - 32:12And to this day...
-
32:12 - 32:13you know how we scream about 9/11?
-
32:13 - 32:15Well, in Turkey, since 1996,
-
32:15 - 32:17people have been screaming "Susurluk."
-
32:17 - 32:19Instead of "9/11" they say "Susurluk,"
-
32:19 - 32:21because a lot of stuff
-- whether it's the Deep State... -
32:21 - 32:24a lot of questions still remain
-
32:24 - 32:26unanswered about it,
and that's one of them. -
32:26 - 32:28And that is: was it an accident?
-
32:28 - 32:30We don't know. Nobody knows.
-
32:30 - 32:31(James) Were any of the other babas
similarly rubbed out -
32:33 - 32:35in interesting incidents?
-
32:35 - 32:38(Sibel) One interesting character
-
32:38 - 32:42who was, again, a huge figure, and...
-
32:42 - 32:44-- we used to have
a little summer cottage, -
32:44 - 32:46my husband and I,
-
32:46 - 32:48because we went to Turkey
every year -- before all this, -
32:48 - 32:50FBI things, happened;
whistleblowing. -
32:50 - 32:53And in this little, small
fishing-village city -
32:53 - 32:55-- which is now very fashionable;
-
32:55 - 32:58it wasn't back then when we got it --
-
32:58 - 33:00but, one of the babas
had a few hotels and casinos there. -
33:00 - 33:02While, actually, we were there
-
33:02 - 33:07-- I was in Turkey,
and this is 1999, 1998 -- -
33:07 - 33:09he was assassinated,
during the daylight. -
33:09 - 33:13A lot of these Gladio babas
were being taken out. -
33:13 - 33:16And in some cases,
-
33:16 - 33:20they would get some otherbabas
[to] take out some otherbabas. -
33:20 - 33:22So, Godfather against Godfather.
-
33:22 - 33:25Who was managing one Godfather against...?
-
33:25 - 33:27But, a lot of them were taken out.
-
33:27 - 33:29And again, now, this is when
we completely went to Plan B -
33:31 - 33:33--"we:" United States, NATO --
-
33:33 - 33:35and said, "We're gonna use mujahideen."
-
33:35 - 33:38What happened
to the ultranationalist fascist guys? -
33:38 - 33:41For a while...
some of the main ones were taken out; -
33:41 - 33:45some of the other ones were left alone.
-
33:45 - 33:46They stayed rogue for a while,
tried to have their own thing. -
33:48 - 33:51It's like,
-
33:51 - 33:54"United States kind of turned...
is turning its back to us. -
33:54 - 33:56We were [backed?]...
-
33:56 - 33:58And the same thing
is true with the state." -
33:58 - 34:00So things, for a while,
were kind of murky. -
34:01 - 34:03Then came the current Turkish regime,
-
34:03 - 34:06the Islamic government in Turkey.
-
34:06 - 34:09It's very interesting,
because in the United States, -
34:10 - 34:12a lot of things came up,
-
34:12 - 34:16writings saying US was kind of worried
-
34:16 - 34:19about this Islamic government in Turkey:
-
34:20 - 34:22"What is gonna happen in Turkey?"
-
34:22 - 34:24"Are they gonna end up
being another Iran?" -
34:24 - 34:26Et cetera, et cetera.
-
34:26 - 34:28It was... it's so interesting:
-
34:28 - 34:32it's like using
reverse psychology with people. -
34:32 - 34:35And you get to see that a lot
in the Middle East. -
34:35 - 34:38And that is... let's say US wants
-
34:38 - 34:40to install a puppet regime there.
-
34:40 - 34:43One of the first things
that has to happen, -
34:43 - 34:45there needs to be this illusion
-
34:45 - 34:47that US is worried about this regime
-
34:47 - 34:50and that this regime is tough
on US or Israel -
34:50 - 34:53to get the support of the majority;
to be legitimized. -
34:54 - 34:58So in many cases,
that's actually a tactic. -
34:58 - 35:00It's like, you write there,
you say you're concerned, -
35:00 - 35:02when this is your first choice:
-
35:02 - 35:04this is what you want for Turkey.
-
35:04 - 35:09-- "This is," being, US wanting
this government in Turkey. -- -
35:09 - 35:10Since they went to Plan B,
that was always the plan. -
35:11 - 35:14It's like, "We want this so-called"
-
35:14 - 35:16"'moderate Islamic' government there."
-
35:16 - 35:22Now, after Çatlı's death,
when we completely... -
35:23 - 35:26the Gladio went to Plan B mode
for Central Asia/Caucasus -
35:26 - 35:27-- via Islam.
-
35:27 - 35:29And these Islamic factions,
-
35:29 - 35:33they already had
a candidate in mind, a leader. -
35:33 - 35:37And this man was this preacher,
-
35:37 - 35:40this symbol of fanatic Islam in Turkey.
-
35:40 - 35:43Now, they no longer call them fanatic.
-
35:43 - 35:44Because he's supported by the US,
-
35:44 - 35:46we call him a "moderate" Islamist.
-
35:47 - 35:50And his name is Fethullah Gülen.
-
35:50 - 35:52Now, Fethullah Gülen was preaching
-
35:52 - 35:55in Turkey during these 1990s
-
35:55 - 35:57against the secular government:
-
35:57 - 36:00"In Turkey, we need
to have a government -
36:00 - 36:03that reflects, more, people's value:
which is Islam. -
36:03 - 36:05We have to go back to our roots."
-
36:05 - 36:07It was a different form
of ultranationalists: -
36:07 - 36:09ultranationalists were like,
-
36:09 - 36:12"We don't want to be part of the EU;
we want Turkish culture. -
36:12 - 36:15In fact, all these Central Asian
countries there: -
36:15 - 36:16we want to get together with them,
take over them, -
36:18 - 36:20and make this great Turkic Republic."
-
36:20 - 36:24Now, this preacher Fethullah Gülen
said the same thing; -
36:24 - 36:27but he didn't say "nation;"
he said "Islam..." -
36:27 - 36:29-- but the Turkish way of Islam --
-
36:29 - 36:32together with Turkish language:
-
36:32 - 36:33"We need to go and get
our other brothers in Central Asia -
36:35 - 36:37-- Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan --
bring them together, -
36:39 - 36:43and be one great Islamic Turkey.
-
36:43 - 36:44Not fanatic, you know?
Moderate, Turkish way of Islamic..." -
36:46 - 36:49-- whatever is
the "Turkish way of Islamic." -
36:49 - 36:52Now, the military regime in Turkey
-
36:52 - 36:53hated this guy, so he was wanted.
-
36:53 - 36:55There were already some trials.
-
36:55 - 36:57They wanted to put him in jail, OK?
-
36:57 - 36:59He was going through all this period.
-
36:59 - 37:02Accident happens: and he's wanted.
-
37:02 - 37:04He's actually declared criminal,
terrorist, anti-secularist -
37:06 - 37:08by the Turkish government.
-
37:08 - 37:12Yet, mysteriously,
after Susurluk incident, -
37:12 - 37:14this guy, Fethullah Gülen
-- in a private Gulfstream -- -
37:16 - 37:18ends up in the United States of America;
-
37:18 - 37:20lands here in Washington, DC.
-
37:20 - 37:23Hah! Why the United States?
-
37:23 - 37:25"This is a great Turkic Republic,
Islamic..." -
37:25 - 37:27why are you coming to US?
-
37:27 - 37:29He hasn't left the United States since.
-
37:29 - 37:32This is since 1997.
-
37:32 - 37:35First he was in Washington, DC area.
-
37:35 - 37:38They gave him a lavish house,
-
37:38 - 37:40and let him set up his organization
-- "Islamic" organization. -
37:41 - 37:45Currently, it's valued somewhere
above $20 billion dollars. -
37:45 - 37:48It's the largest Islamic organization
in the world, -
37:48 - 37:51headquartered in the United States. OK?
-
37:51 - 37:53And I'm gonna come back again
-- if we have time -- -
37:53 - 37:55to this character.
-
37:55 - 37:57But he's here in Washington, DC area
and Pennsylvania. -
37:59 - 38:02Who is his next neighbor?
-
38:02 - 38:04His next neighbor... [laughs]
-
38:04 - 38:06This is... I'm laughing.
-
38:06 - 38:08It's because nobody ever
touches these issues: -
38:08 - 38:10-- because they are told not to,
-
38:10 - 38:12as far as mainstream media goes;
-
38:12 - 38:13as far as alternative media goes,
it's like, -
38:13 - 38:17"Man, dude! This is so complicated!
I can't get into that." -
38:17 - 38:21Next to him is this guy
called Yusuf Turani. -
38:21 - 38:23Now, this is the guy
who used to be in Xinjiang... -
38:26 - 38:29-- Uyghuristan; Turkestan in China --
-
38:29 - 38:31He was taken out of there;
he lived for a while in Turkey, -
38:34 - 38:37then he was...
he came to the United States. -
38:37 - 38:38He was given citizenship.
-
38:38 - 38:41And the State Department brought him,
and they had a meeting -
38:42 - 38:44-- and this is in 1997 --
-
38:44 - 38:47and they declared independent country
of [East] Turkestan -
38:49 - 38:54with the President of [East] Turkestan
in absentia. -
38:54 - 38:55Like, nobody knows this, right?
-
38:55 - 38:59So you declare a country
and a President in a meeting, -
38:59 - 39:01at an oval table in the State Department.
-
39:01 - 39:03We say, "We are declaring Xinjiang
[East] Turkestan; -
39:03 - 39:05and here is the President."
-
39:05 - 39:08Now, he swears...
his oath of office is taken -
39:08 - 39:10inside the building,
in the State Department, -
39:10 - 39:13in Washington, DC, in 1997.
-
39:13 - 39:16Well, he's part of
the same Gladio Plan B network, OK? -
39:16 - 39:17So through him...
-
39:17 - 39:20-- because he's the leader in absentia,
-
39:20 - 39:24president in absentia of this country
that really doesn't exist -
39:24 - 39:27except in the eyes of the United States:
[East] Turkestan -- -
39:27 - 39:29so, he was part of Plan B
and still is part of Plan B, -
39:31 - 39:34heading and carrying out operations;
-
39:34 - 39:36through his people and network
-
39:36 - 39:39[that] goes down
in Xinjiang Province of China -
39:39 - 39:42Now, between 1997,
after he moved to the United States, -
39:45 - 39:46this guy...
-- this preacher Fethullah Gülen, right? -- -
39:49 - 39:54opened up 350 mosques and madrasas
in Central Asia and Caucasus. -
39:57 - 40:01350, James -- in four years!
-
40:01 - 40:03Nobody knows
where the money's coming from. -
40:03 - 40:08He says, "These are donations
from good-hearted Turkish people." -
40:08 - 40:13(laughs) That, it means...
-- let's take a look at it. If... -
40:13 - 40:15We don't even get that much...
-
40:15 - 40:18we don't even collect
that much tax in Turkey! -
40:18 - 40:20Even the government is unable,
by force, to collect that much tax. -
40:20 - 40:24So, we've got these $20 billion
of net worth. -
40:24 - 40:26So, 350 mosques and madrasas.
-
40:26 - 40:30But because he preaches modern Islam
-
40:30 - 40:32-- you know, not the fanatic Islam --
-
40:32 - 40:36he advocates teaching English
to all his students, -
40:36 - 40:39pupils in the madrasas.
-
40:39 - 40:41These are boys with Qu'ran,
and they go like... -
40:41 - 40:43but they have to learn English.
-
40:43 - 40:45And for the teaching of English
-
40:45 - 40:47for his organizations that he owns,
-
40:47 - 40:49-- these mosques and madrasas --
-
40:49 - 40:52he needs to send English teachers
-
40:52 - 40:54to Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan
and et cetera, right? -
40:56 - 40:58But for some reason,
hundreds of these English teachers -
40:58 - 41:01that went -- have been going --
-
41:01 - 41:03from the United States to these countries
-
41:03 - 41:05-- Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, et cetera --
-
41:05 - 41:07they all have diplomatic passports!
-
41:07 - 41:09Now, you taught English.
-
41:09 - 41:11Were you given diplomatic passports
to teach English in Japan? -
41:12 - 41:14- James: (laughs)
- Sibel: No? (laughs) -
41:14 - 41:16This... again, people will say,
"Oh, this is some allegation." -
41:16 - 41:18No! And this is why
I have had articles trans-- -
41:20 - 41:22I have translated articles
-
41:22 - 41:26-- mainstream media in Europe
and in Turkey -- -
41:26 - 41:28and it's there!
-
41:28 - 41:30It's already been proven;
and they... -
41:30 - 41:32-- United States, the State Department --
is not denying. -
41:32 - 41:34They are saying,
-
41:34 - 41:37"Because those countries
are backwards and dangerous, -
41:37 - 41:39they need diplomatic protections."
-
41:39 - 41:40Well,hah!
-
41:40 - 41:44Anyhow, Plan B Gladio operations:
these are... -
41:44 - 41:46I'm giving the examples
of what Plan B has been about. -
41:49 - 41:52And this was when we
-- the United States, NATO -- -
41:54 - 41:56started really closely working
with Bin Laden and Zawahiri. -
41:58 - 42:06And... again,
from what we knew in the FBI -
42:06 - 42:08with some of the trips that Zawahiri took,
-
42:09 - 42:13the meetings with the high-level Turkish
people in Turkey, -
42:13 - 42:15several trips that Zawahiri took
-
42:15 - 42:20and went to Azerbaijan
between 1997 and 2001. -
42:20 - 42:21And while in Azerbaijan,
he met with a lot of US officials. -
42:25 - 42:26It was sponsored;
and it held the meetings -
42:28 - 42:31in Turkish Embassy
in Baku, Azerbaijan, with Zawahiri; -
42:32 - 42:35Prince Bandar was there.
-
42:35 - 42:37A lot of the stuff that we got:
-
42:37 - 42:39I mean, Bin Laden
seemed to be number two: -
42:39 - 42:41It was all Zawahiri.
-
42:41 - 42:43Believe me or not,
it was Ayman Zawahiri. -
42:43 - 42:46It was Zawahiri that came to Turkey
-
42:46 - 42:47and then went from Turkey
to Albania, to Kosovo... -
42:50 - 42:52So, anyhow: we...
-
42:52 - 42:55-- United States, together with Turkey:
-
42:55 - 42:58Turkish military, faction of it --
-
42:58 - 43:01started working very closely
in these countries -
43:01 - 43:03with Ayman Zawahiri,
Bin Laden, Prince Bandar. -
43:07 - 43:09Lots of meetings took place;
-
43:09 - 43:11and a lot of it was coordinated
via the Turkish proxy. -
43:14 - 43:16Well, these Turkish proxies
were being investigated by the FBI; -
43:19 - 43:22-- not for that reason;
for other reasons -- -
43:22 - 43:24But inadvertently,
we were getting this information -
43:24 - 43:27through the recordings of...
-
43:27 - 43:30whether it is, hypothetically speaking,
-
43:30 - 43:34Turkish military being wiretapped;
-
43:34 - 43:36or if it's a Turkish military attaché;
diplomatic institutions; -
43:38 - 43:41other various front organizations.
-
43:41 - 43:43So, let's say you were...
-
43:44 - 43:47via FISA, you were monitoring it
-- "you" being the FBI -- -
43:49 - 43:50for... to see if there is
some espionage activities, et cetera. -
43:52 - 43:54But while you are monitoring them,
-
43:54 - 43:55you are coming with mother-lodes
of information that has to do... -
43:55 - 43:58it's like, "Huh?"
You know? -
43:59 - 44:01And another interesting thing
that I have to mention here is: -
44:03 - 44:06-- and nobody has ever
mentioned this in public -- -
44:07 - 44:11Now, in the FBI, every single country
-
44:11 - 44:15-- every single country except four --
-
44:15 - 44:20were wiretapped,
were monitored under FISA. -
44:20 - 44:21And by this I mean
all their diplomatic arms. -
44:25 - 44:26Let's say, if it's a German embassy
-
44:26 - 44:28and a German military attaché
in Washington, DC: -
44:28 - 44:32under FISA, four countries...
four countries... -
44:35 - 44:36Except four countries:
Four countries were exempt. -
44:39 - 44:41They could not be monitored
by the FBI under FISA, -
44:44 - 44:50that could be used in espionage
and even criminal activities. -
44:50 - 44:51You want to have a guess?
-
44:51 - 44:54- James: Can I take a stab at it? I'm...
- Sibel: What countries? -
44:54 - 44:56(Sibel) A lot of people
would say Israel; it's not. -
44:56 - 44:57(James): It's not Israel?
-
44:57 - 45:00- Sibel: OK, I'll help you...
- James: I guess Turkey is on that list... -
45:00 - 45:02(Sibel) Yep. It was, until I went...
-
45:02 - 45:05I started the official Turkish division
-
45:05 - 45:08- Sibel: for the FBI.
- James: Right -
45:08 - 45:11(Sibel) Prior to my employment with the FBI,
-
45:11 - 45:14the Pentagon sent
this lieutenant colonel woman. -
45:14 - 45:16She was a Turkish-American woman;
-
45:16 - 45:19NATO, Pentagon liaison.
-
45:19 - 45:21They would send her
every two or three months -
45:21 - 45:24to come and randomly translate
certain things for the FBI. -
45:26 - 45:28Because certain things
were being recorded; -
45:28 - 45:30but FBI couldn't have
an official division: -
45:30 - 45:32meaning they could never
investigate criminally, or for espionage. -
45:34 - 45:37Turkey is one;
all right: three more. -
45:37 - 45:40(James) Oh no. (laughs) Well...
If it's going to play into -
45:40 - 45:44what's happening in Central Asia
and the Caucasus, -
45:44 - 45:47it would have to be,
perhaps, Pakistan? -
45:51 - 45:55)Sibel) No. We had a pretty good division
on Pakistan. -
45:55 - 45:57Because, you see, this included...
-
45:57 - 46:00that's why I gave
the example of Germany: -
46:00 - 46:02because this included
European countries, too. -
46:02 - 46:06It was Turkey, Azerbaijan,
United Kingdom... -
46:06 - 46:08-- you would think, "English! What?" --
-
46:08 - 46:10United Kingdom is exempt
-- and for a reason. -
46:10 - 46:12And that reason? Well...
-
46:12 - 46:15and the fourth one is Belgium.
-
46:15 - 46:17Nobody in the FBI is allowed...
-
46:17 - 46:21because there are too much
sensitive stuff going on with Belgium -
46:21 - 46:23So these are the four.
-
46:23 - 46:25No, Israel, we had a huge division;
-
46:25 - 46:27and FBI was extremely frustrated.
-
46:27 - 46:30They hated how investigations
were being stopped, et cetera. -
46:31 - 46:34But they... we had a huge division
there on Israel. (chuckles) -
46:34 - 46:36And we had so much crap on Israel:
they had huge amounts. -
46:37 - 46:39Unfortunately, it could never be used,
-
46:39 - 46:41but they never... they still collect.
-
46:41 - 46:43But no, not Israel;
-
46:43 - 46:47but it would be Turkey, Azerbaijan,
and UK, and Belgium. -
46:47 - 46:50And again, as I said...
-
46:50 - 46:54-- the artery, at the beginning
of this interview -- -
46:54 - 46:59it was United States, Belgium,
England, Turkey. -
46:59 - 47:05And... so, anyhow:
Fethullah Gülen still is here, -
47:05 - 47:07he's still in Turkey [sic],
-
47:07 - 47:09he has this huge castle built
in Pennsylvania. -
47:09 - 47:11We have... he has opened...
-
47:11 - 47:12- James: Sorry... I just...
- Sibel: Yes. -
47:12 - 47:14(James) Before we go on with that,
-
47:14 - 47:16I just want to spell that out
for the audience out there, -
47:16 - 47:19in case they don't know:
-
47:19 - 47:21Of course, one of
the implications of this: -
47:21 - 47:23NATO's headquarters
are in Brussels, in Belgium. -
47:23 - 47:24This is the head of NATO itself.
-
47:24 - 47:26So, again: just to spell that out for people,
-
47:26 - 47:29in case they didn't quite get
the implication of that. -
47:30 - 47:32(Sibel) Correct, absolutely.
-
47:32 - 47:35And during the Susurluk
investigation, the... -
47:35 - 47:38some of the documents
that became public: -
47:38 - 47:40a special office in Pentagon
-
47:40 - 47:43that was responsible for all this Gladio
-
47:43 - 47:48-- false flag, false terrorism --
operations. -
47:48 - 47:49It... the exact division
was spelled out in documents. -
47:51 - 47:53I mean, they had a major office.
-
47:53 - 47:56There is a major division
that oversees that. -
47:56 - 48:00And as I said,
they work with these thugs and criminals. -
48:00 - 48:02And the fact that
-
48:02 - 48:04-- as people write
and talk about it -- -
48:04 - 48:07it was not dismantled and just left there
-
48:07 - 48:10after the end of the Soviet Union,
-
48:10 - 48:13after the fall of the Soviet Union.
-
48:13 - 48:16It went... it went forward
with the operations, -
48:16 - 48:19and in 1997 it went to Plan B.
-
48:19 - 48:21And this is why, again,
-
48:21 - 48:24[unintelligible] it's very interesting,
-
48:24 - 48:28because during this three,
four years' period, -
48:28 - 48:32there were dozens and dozens
of joint operations -
48:32 - 48:35with individuals
like Ayman Zawahiri and... -
48:35 - 48:37-- meaning that,
it was never called "al-Qaeda;" -
48:37 - 48:41It was "mujahideen, headed by..."
-
48:41 - 48:44And again, it's very interesting:
-
48:44 - 48:46when, lately, these leaders
[of] these regimes -
48:46 - 48:48we topple in these countries:
they are... -
48:50 - 48:52they end up dead,
so they cannot talk, -
48:52 - 48:54or they end up sick with heart attacks.
-
48:54 - 48:56They can't talk, really, have trials.
-
48:56 - 48:58We saw it with Gaddafi.
-
48:58 - 49:00But again, one of the things
that took place -
49:00 - 49:03-- and again, Turkey behind the scenes
-
49:03 - 49:06played a major role together with US --
-
49:06 - 49:09was we in the United States
asked Mubarak -
49:10 - 49:14to release some of the top
fundamental[ist] anti-regime figures -
49:14 - 49:18from prison in the 1990s.
-
49:18 - 49:20And they came to Turkey,
and they became part of this movement. -
49:22 - 49:24When I say "anti-regime," it would be...
-
49:24 - 49:26Mubarak had to release
some fundamental[ist]s -
49:26 - 49:29who were anti-Mubarak! And...
-
49:29 - 49:32because the higher powers
told him that, -
49:32 - 49:38"We need these people in Turkey,
and we have tasks for them." -
49:39 - 49:40You take a look and see
how many times he's been released, -
49:42 - 49:44people like Zawahiri.
-
49:47 - 49:49Anyhow, we had these;
and then, 9/11 happened. -
49:52 - 49:53And this is when...
I kept saying... -
49:53 - 49:57-- these organizations, OK? --
these things come together. -
49:57 - 50:00And people... people say,
-
50:00 - 50:03"Whoa! What does it have to do with Turkey?
-
50:03 - 50:05Turkey's an ally!"
-
50:05 - 50:07Well, it would be crazy
for someone to come out and say, -
50:07 - 50:10"You know, you look at NATO..." (chuckles)
-
50:10 - 50:12or, "A certain arm of NATO..."
-
50:12 - 50:14Nobody would listen to this person.
-
50:14 - 50:15Think about it!
-
50:15 - 50:18A President
-- ex-President of Italy -- -
50:18 - 50:19can come out publicly
and talk about Gladio, -
50:21 - 50:23and talk about some of the operatives,
and talk about 9/11, -
50:25 - 50:28and it's not even mentioned!
-
50:28 - 50:32How could two or three agents
from the FBI... -
50:32 - 50:33you get a couple of people in Pentagon...
-
50:33 - 50:35if they were to come out...
-
50:35 - 50:37and they were to come out
and tell people... -
50:37 - 50:40Let's say they are fearless, OK?
-
50:40 - 50:42They say, "Execute me, put me in jail:
-
50:42 - 50:45I'm gonna tell the Americans
exactly what I know." -
50:45 - 50:48People would say, "He's crazy,"
or, "She's crazy." -
50:48 - 50:52They... -- Americans,
a lot of people in Europe -- -
50:52 - 50:54they would not be willing
to digest information -
50:54 - 50:57-- to them --
that big. -
50:57 - 50:59But the answer, yet, is so simple.
-
51:01 - 51:03(James) Well, let's spell this out for people.
-
51:03 - 51:07Because you've talked
about the Plan A of Gladio -
51:07 - 51:08-- which is more, I think,
-
51:08 - 51:10what people understand Gladio
to have been, -
51:10 - 51:12talking about the ultranationalists.
-
51:12 - 51:15But moving into the Plan B era,
-
51:15 - 51:19with the Islamization
of the Central Asia and Caucasus, -
51:19 - 51:21and working with people like Zawahiri:
-
51:21 - 51:23I guess the question
a lot of people have is, -
51:23 - 51:24how is this Gladio?
-
51:24 - 51:26Gladio was the stay-behind
to counter the Soviet threat. -
51:28 - 51:29So the idea is, well,
-
51:31 - 51:32after the Soviet threat is gone,
what is Gladio's purpose? -
51:32 - 51:35So I guess the question is,
well, what is Plan B? -
51:35 - 51:38What is it actually attempting to achieve?
-
51:38 - 51:40I think we've gotten
some indication with that: -
51:40 - 51:42for example, the Azerbaijani example,
-
51:42 - 51:44trying to move the Azerbaijani government
into the US stable. -
51:44 - 51:46But are there other examples?
-
51:46 - 51:48How is this actually being used?
-
51:48 - 51:50And what is its purpose at this point?
-
51:52 - 51:55(Sibel) OK, First, the fact
-
51:55 - 51:57that even though
the term "stay behind" applies, -
51:57 - 51:59they are ex--... they're very proactive.
-
51:59 - 52:02This is... think about this:
-
52:02 - 52:05A lot of people say,
"OK, Cold War, then, was over, in 1991." -
52:05 - 52:07Cold War was never over;
it is not... it still continues. -
52:10 - 52:15The war over resources continues.
-
52:15 - 52:19Not only that it did not end in 1990:
-
52:19 - 52:22it actually accelerated, OK?
-
52:22 - 52:26A lot of emphasis, attention today
is on Middle East. -
52:26 - 52:28Why? Middle East oil, right?
-
52:29 - 52:31In less than a couple of decades,
-
52:31 - 52:33the next Middle East we're gonna be seeing
-
52:33 - 52:35is going to be Central Asia.
-
52:35 - 52:38Much worse, much bloodier,
with much worse ethnic divisions. -
52:42 - 52:45Divisiveness and conflicts there.
-
52:45 - 52:47Because the amount of
natural resources they have -
52:47 - 52:51-- whether it's in oil, or gas,
or minerals -- -
52:51 - 52:55it's... because it's
towards the end of it, -
52:55 - 52:57what we see in Middle East:
they are almost done with... -
52:57 - 53:00OK: you still have the unexplored regions
-
53:00 - 53:01within the Caspian Basin;
you still have Iran, yeah. -
53:03 - 53:05But the ultimate prize has always been
Central Asia and Caucasus. -
53:08 - 53:10If you go back to Brzezinski,
-
53:10 - 53:13if you go back to the old doctrine,
-
53:13 - 53:15you would see that it's that Eurasia,
-
53:15 - 53:17It's not... Middle East is the past.
-
53:17 - 53:19It's over: it's the finished chapter.
-
53:19 - 53:22A lot... they like what they are seeing:
-
53:22 - 53:24people -- we -- are stuck by watching,
-
53:24 - 53:26observing Middle East,
-
53:26 - 53:29and nobody's paying attention
what is happening, -
53:29 - 53:31how the countries are being set up
-
53:31 - 53:33in Central Asia and Caucasus.
-
53:33 - 53:35How we are already setting up
-
53:35 - 53:38the religious factions there.
-
53:38 - 53:39How we are setting up
-
53:39 - 53:41the ethnic conflicts there.
-
53:41 - 53:45You need to do this pre-preparation
-
53:45 - 53:49for the coming assault
that's going for it. -
53:49 - 53:52It doesn't happen overnight, you know?
-
53:52 - 53:54People are looking... Mubarak!
-
53:54 - 53:56I remember, 1980, 1981:
-
53:56 - 54:00I remember how it was discussed
in Iran, in Turkey, -
54:00 - 54:02of who killed Anwar Sadat?
-
54:02 - 54:06It was... the biggest thing was,
it was Mubarak. -
54:06 - 54:09Who wanted Mubarak to implement that?
-
54:09 - 54:11It was always the United States.
-
54:11 - 54:12So... but today it's like,
-
54:12 - 54:16"Oh yeah, this big bad guy Mubarak,
he's in jail." -
54:16 - 54:18It's... they don't know the context.
-
54:19 - 54:22They are currently -- people --
missing the context -
54:22 - 54:23of what we are doing.
-
54:23 - 54:269/11 happens, OK? 9/11 happens.
-
54:26 - 54:30We say -- our government says --
"Our partners did it!" -
54:30 - 54:33"While we were working with them,
carrying [out] joint operations" -
54:33 - 54:36"all over the place in Central Asia
and Caucasus," -
54:36 - 54:39"they turned around and
they did this to us!" -
54:39 - 54:43It's... as I said: I said it
seems complicated, -
54:43 - 54:47it's too big to digest;
yet it's extremely simple. -
54:47 - 54:49And simplicity doesn't matter:
-
54:49 - 54:51p eople don't want to digest,
-
54:51 - 54:53no matter how simple it is.
-
54:53 - 54:54Our partners...
-
54:54 - 54:57-- look, we are partnering up in Syria:
it's nothing -- -
54:57 - 54:59I'm talking about real partnership.
-
54:59 - 55:02Operations carried out over resources,
-
55:02 - 55:05trying to get these ex-Soviet blocs
on our side -
55:05 - 55:07so they won't be on Russia's side.
-
55:07 - 55:09So they won't be on China's side.
-
55:09 - 55:11Because, hey: "Communist China."
-
55:11 - 55:16"Muslims should side with America,
because Islam works in our benefit." -
55:16 - 55:21"What do we have to get these people
through our proxy, Turkish NATO?" -
55:21 - 55:21Islam!
-
55:21 - 55:24As long as they become fanatics,
-
55:24 - 55:27as long as they're attached to Islam,
they're gonna say pooh-pooh -
55:27 - 55:30to China and Russia.
They're gonna side with us. -
55:30 - 55:32What happened in Afghanistan?
-
55:32 - 55:34It was Islam. It's always been.
-
55:34 - 55:40It's been the oldest trick for the UK.
It's been the number one big game: -
55:40 - 55:43it's played in the name of religion.
-
55:43 - 55:45You use Islam to get what you want!
-
55:45 - 55:49And I'm just amazed. I'm opening
newspapers... -
55:49 - 55:51I don't actually open newspapers
anymore. -
55:51 - 55:54I open them on my computer.
But I still do this motion. -
55:54 - 55:56I don't buy newspapers;
-
55:56 - 55:58but, count: how many times
-
55:58 - 56:01do you see the word "Islam"
and "Islamists?" -
56:01 - 56:03"Islamists carried out this;
Islamists did that;" -
56:03 - 56:06"Islamists... and this Islamist faction;
Islamists..." -
56:07 - 56:11If you look at some of the conflicts
with India and Pakistan, you don't see, -
56:11 - 56:14"Buddhists! Buddhists did that!" "The
Buddhists..." You don't see, -
56:14 - 56:18"Buddhists did this." It's a particular
group; but it's Islamists! -
56:19 - 56:21(James): Absolutely right.
(Sibel): So... but these Islamists... -
56:21 - 56:24I mean, we see the absolute
Islamization of the area -
56:24 - 56:26and the 350 madrasas
-
56:26 - 56:29that Gülen has put into that region.
-
56:29 - 56:33And with the English teachers being
sent over with diplomatic passports, -
56:33 - 56:35it all lines up exactly as you're saying.
-
56:35 - 56:37But there's another huge piece
of this puzzle -
56:37 - 56:41that we haven't even touched on yet,
and that's the drug-running: -
56:41 - 56:44which, of course, is absolutely central
to a lot of the geostrategy of the region. -
56:44 - 56:47And of course, Turkey:
absolutely important -
56:47 - 56:49in terms of smuggling
for the heroin routes. -
56:49 - 56:52A lot of money rests on this.
-
56:52 - 56:55This is such a huge backbone of the
international economy. And of course, -
56:55 - 56:59that's one of the things that we're not
allowed to ever talk about -
56:59 - 57:01or broach in the mainstream media,
-
57:01 - 57:03because it is so central
to what's happening there. -
57:04 - 57:08So how does this fit in? Who are the
main players, and where do they fit -
57:08 - 57:11into this network that's been created?
-
57:14 - 57:17Sure. First of all,
-
57:17 - 57:20I have to first say: I know
the information I know -
57:20 - 57:24both through the work I did during a
short period of time with the FBI -
57:24 - 57:28that involved the top Turkish operators
and movements of heroin -
57:28 - 57:32-- and this is before 9/11 until
a few months after 9/11 -- -
57:32 - 57:34but also my own research;
-
57:34 - 57:36but also my own contacts and
sources in Turkey. -
57:36 - 57:40But as far as my work during my work
with the FBI goes -
57:40 - 57:45and the information that by default we
gathered, because some of these -
57:45 - 57:49Turkish actors under investigations who
were being monitored, -
57:49 - 57:53they were the major players with
bringing in heroin. -
57:53 - 57:55And it was, again, done
-- believe me or not -- -
57:55 - 58:00it's like, "OK, Turkey, Eastern Europe:"
Nobody ever mentions the role -
58:00 - 58:06and the strategic importance of Brussels!
Brussels is extremely important in the -
58:06 - 58:11transportation and in the distribution of
heroin, but nobody would -
58:11 - 58:15want to think about... [scoffs] "Brussels?
European country? Belgium?" -
58:15 - 58:16"It just doesn't fit."
-
58:16 - 58:20"We need to find countries
like Pakistan and Turkey:" -
58:20 - 58:22"Yeah, Midnight Express!
That makes sense." -
58:22 - 58:26" But UK? Belgium? That's not...
that doesn't." -
58:26 - 58:30But one false information that
is being put [out] -
58:30 - 58:31-- that I have to correct here --
-
58:31 - 58:38by people is: "Taliban ended the opium
production, the poppies production," -
58:38 - 58:41and that after 9/11 it started.
-
58:41 - 58:43Of course, after 9/11 it went from
$5 billion worth, -
58:43 - 58:47or $1 billion dollar worth, to $50,
$100 billion: -
58:47 - 58:48increased tremendously.
-
58:48 - 58:51But they never ceased producing.
-
58:51 - 58:53And I know this first-hand;
-
58:53 - 58:56and I know this through my work
with the FBI. -
58:56 - 58:58It is a known thing: they still did.
-
58:58 - 59:00It was nothing like to this extent,
-
59:00 - 59:03to the scale that it is today,
-
59:03 - 59:06the production of the opium and heroin;
-
59:06 - 59:07but it was there.
-
59:07 - 59:10However, until 9/11,
-
59:12 - 59:14the majority of that operation
-
59:14 - 59:17-- and again, it was nothing compared
to what it is today -- -
59:17 - 59:21the biggest share was actually
carried out... -
59:21 - 59:23-- both operations, taking it
to the labs -- -
59:23 - 59:25by the Russians.
-
59:25 - 59:28If I were to throw a number,
-
59:28 - 59:31I would say it was... 70 to 80 percent
-
59:31 - 59:34was under Russian control in 1990s.
-
59:34 - 59:36It was Russian mafiya,
-
59:36 - 59:38certain Russian military elements,
-
59:38 - 59:40certain Russian intelligence elements.
-
59:40 - 59:44they created, they had a lot of network
put in place, -
59:44 - 59:47even after they got out of Afghanistan,
-
59:47 - 59:48and they continued that.
-
59:48 - 59:51And something around...
-- again, don't quote me on the number -- -
59:51 - 59:55if I were to throw a number, I would say
somewhere around 20 percent -
59:55 - 60:02was being smuggled through porous
borders region into Iran, -
60:02 - 60:04from Iran into Turkey,
-
60:04 - 60:06some of them through Turkey...
-
60:06 - 60:08Kurdish couriers into Iraq,
-
60:08 - 60:09from Iraq to Turkey
-
60:09 - 60:11where the lab processed it.
-
60:11 - 60:13But, it was 20 to 80.
-
60:13 - 60:19Now, that turned completely opposite
after 9/11. -
60:19 - 60:23We, the West, via Turkey...
-
60:23 - 60:26-- Albanians and Turks --
-
60:26 - 60:27the West became...
-
60:27 - 60:31-- and this is the number one actor at
the top, being NATO -- -
60:31 - 60:33the biggest shareholder,
-
60:33 - 60:36the top people in this operation
-
60:36 - 60:37that now you are seeing
-
60:37 - 60:40$50, $100, $500 billion: pick your number.
-
60:40 - 60:42And the Russians' share decreased,
and decreased, -
60:42 - 60:46and decreased, and decreased
-- to almost nothing. -
60:46 - 60:47I mean, they still have some,
-
60:47 - 60:49there are some Russian...
but it's nothing. -
60:49 - 60:52And that's why, again, this was...
-
60:52 - 60:56this is fact,
this is solid data pouring in: -
60:56 - 61:00who were the actors, how much of the
share it was, and how much it is now. -
61:00 - 61:02This is why I wonder sometimes why
Russia screams and says, -
61:02 - 61:06"All this heroin comes into Russia, and
we want to be part of this" -
61:06 - 61:10"eradication program that has increased
the poppy production into..." -
61:10 - 61:14whatever, $50 billion. I guess
we call it, now, "eradication," -
61:14 - 61:18increasing the production.
I'm like, "maybe it's a code language!" -
61:18 - 61:20Russia says, "We want in on this!"
-
61:20 - 61:23And maybe to pacify Russia we say,
-
61:23 - 61:26"Yeah, we are eradicating, and the
production is going up." -
61:26 - 61:28"Come, we'll give you another 10 percent."
-
61:28 - 61:30"Help us 'eradicate.'"
-
61:30 - 61:32In quotes: "eradicate" poppies.
-
61:32 - 61:37So, that's for the heroin portion of it.
-
61:37 - 61:39And while we are at this,
-
61:39 - 61:41on this topic of Russia...
-
61:41 - 61:44-- and I want to mention this,
and I find this mind-boggling -- -
61:44 - 61:47the... our operations
-
61:47 - 61:52-- Gladio operations; US, NATO via
these Turkish paramilitary groups... -
61:52 - 61:55and later via the Islamist groups --
-
61:55 - 61:57a lot of it had to do with
-
61:57 - 61:59what we were doing with the Chechens
-
61:59 - 62:01and the Chechen movement
in the Chechnya -
62:01 - 62:03carrying out terror attacks in Russia.
-
62:03 - 62:05A lot of it within Russian borders.
-
62:06 - 62:10Now... then we're going
to get into Ergenekon. -
62:10 - 62:12And I don't know how much
time we have; -
62:12 - 62:14it may be part two for this interview.
-
62:15 - 62:18Because a lot of these former
-
62:18 - 62:20ultranationalist fascist militaries
-
62:20 - 62:23who used to fight Russia
-
62:23 - 62:26or counter the Soviets on Gladio's side,
-
62:26 - 62:29after they were, basically, thrown out,
-
62:30 - 62:32started being assassinated.
-
62:32 - 62:35They were thrown out by NATO
and they lost their protection; -
62:35 - 62:39and these are the military fascists
in Turkey. The ones who survived, -
62:39 - 62:43they had to get themselves to Russia.
And they defected to Russia. -
62:43 - 62:46They went and they sought political
asylums. You will see -
62:46 - 62:52several Turkish generals who've been
in Russia in the past three or four years. -
62:52 - 62:54With all the trials against the
Turkish generals, -
62:54 - 62:56Ergenekon in Turkey,
-
62:56 - 62:58and with some of these people
-
62:58 - 63:00being assassinated mysteriously,
-
63:00 - 63:03including some of the
paramilitary groups. -
63:03 - 63:06In order to defect, in order to get the
asylum; in order to settle -
63:06 - 63:09and get the Russian
government's protection, -
63:09 - 63:10of course, they have to give
-
63:10 - 63:12-- I'm sure, I'm certain --
-
63:12 - 63:14a lot of information
-
63:14 - 63:22to the Russian government and to FSB.
And even in late 1990s, as they were -
63:22 - 63:26-- the Russian forces there --
as they were capturing and killing -
63:26 - 63:29some of these terrorists
-- their terrorists -- -
63:29 - 63:30they were confiscating passports
-
63:30 - 63:33-- diplomatic passports, Turkish
passports -- -
63:33 - 63:36from so-called "Chechens"
who'd either received training in Turkey -
63:36 - 63:40or actually these were part of the
Turkish military/paramilitary groups -
63:40 - 63:44fighting and leading Chechens inside
Russia to carry out terror attacks. -
63:44 - 63:46And the mystery remains that:
-
63:46 - 63:51why Russia has remained so quiet
and silent on this? -
63:51 - 63:56And what is the game there? Or is this
actually a game-changer? I don't know. -
63:56 - 64:00(James): And that's an extremely
important point in all of this
(Sibel): I don't know the answer. -
64:00 - 64:04Because this goes right into this
geostrategy surrounding the greater -
64:04 - 64:07conflict that's going on right now.
This, of course, touches on China -
64:07 - 64:10-- with [East] Turkestan, or Xinjiang --
-
64:10 - 64:14and Russia and its share in the heroin
trade. This goes right to the heart -
64:14 - 64:20of that greater geopolitical conflict we
see shaping up. So I certainly hope -
64:20 - 64:23that we can get a second part of this
interview, because this is absolutely, -
64:23 - 64:27truly fascinating stuff; but we've already
been talking for an hour, and we've laid -
64:27 - 64:31a lot of information out on the table
already today. So perhaps we can have -
64:31 - 64:34a second part to this interview; and if
there are listeners out there -
64:34 - 64:37with some questions or comments
that they want to make, -
64:37 - 64:40they can send that to me, and
I will bring that -
64:40 - 64:44into our second conversation on this.
But for now, thinking about -
64:44 - 64:47what we've talked about so far:
-- we've covered, again, a lot of ground -- -
64:47 - 64:50Is there anything you'd like to say
to sort of wrap up -
64:50 - 64:52what we've talked about today,
or the situation... -
64:52 - 64:53Yes
-
64:53 - 64:56...that some of these actors are in today,
like Fethullah Gülen? -
64:58 - 65:01Yeah. One last thing I have...
and I'm gonna get into those, -
65:01 - 65:04-- because they get to be
really deep topics -- -
65:04 - 65:09on our next... during our next interviews.
But I have been asked by some sources, -
65:09 - 65:12some people, to go to Russia to meet
with some of these people -
65:13 - 65:15And I know that there are people
-
65:15 - 65:19-- both in Turkey, but also in Russia --
-
65:19 - 65:22who have some
very important documents, -
65:22 - 65:25and they have some very
important information -
65:25 - 65:28that they have tried to get to me
in person, but they can't. -
65:28 - 65:31Now I know, hopefully,
-
65:31 - 65:33that some of this will get to them,
-
65:33 - 65:36and it would be good for them to know
-
65:36 - 65:37that there are people,
-
65:37 - 65:39there are journalists outside
the United States, -
65:39 - 65:41outside me that they can trust
-
65:41 - 65:44and they can contact.
They can be interviewed. -
65:44 - 65:47If they don't wish to be interviewed,
they can send information. -
65:47 - 65:52There are ways. You can do it through
encrypted way -
65:52 - 65:54-- I don't know how much you can
trust that -- -
65:54 - 66:00but... or documents can come
through "6-7-7-7-8-10 STOP" -
66:00 - 66:04But I want them to know that it is good
to have other sources -
66:04 - 66:07outside the US who are
tackling these issues; -
66:07 - 66:10and they can reach out
-
66:10 - 66:12to journalists like James Corbett
-
66:12 - 66:16-- and knowing that this information
would get out. -
66:17 - 66:20And again, those people in Russia:
-
66:20 - 66:22I hope some of you are watching this,
-
66:22 - 66:25and I hope some of you will help us
-
66:25 - 66:31to peel off more layers of this operation.
-
66:31 - 66:34Absolutely. Well, again, we've talked
about so much already today, -
66:34 - 66:37and there's a lot of information
for people to digest. -
66:37 - 66:40So I will include in the links,
-
66:40 - 66:42in the show notes for this interview,
-
66:42 - 66:46some of the links to some of the articles
that you've written on Boiling Frogs Post -
66:46 - 66:49surrounding some of these topics, and
some of the other articles that other -
66:49 - 66:53people have written, so that people can
start delving into this in a little bit more, -
66:53 - 66:57deeper detail. And I will be putting out
a podcast episode that will encapsulate -
66:57 - 66:59at least some of what we've
talked about today -
66:59 - 67:01-- and with Tom Secker last week --
-
67:01 - 67:04this Friday. So people can look
forward to that. -
67:04 - 67:07On that note, I think we will wrap this
conversation up here. -
67:07 - 67:09Again, we have been talking for
quite a while already. -
67:09 - 67:12So Sibel, thank you so much
for laying this out for us today, -
67:12 - 67:17and I'm very much looking forward
to our next conversation. -
67:19 - 67:21And thank you for tackling this,
-
67:21 - 67:24this topic, which is extremely important.
-
67:24 - 67:28In my prelude, I called it the "master key"
-
67:28 - 67:31to understanding a lot of things,
including 9/11. -
67:31 - 67:33and I'm glad you're holding that key.
-
67:33 - 67:35Thank you.
-
67:35 - 67:35Thank you.
-
67:35 - 67:37♪ (Music) ♪
-
67:37 - 67:38(James [voice-over]): This video is
brought to you -
67:38 - 67:41by the subscribers of
BoilingFrogsPost.com. -
67:41 - 67:43For more information on this
and other topics, -
67:43 - 67:45please go to BoilingFrogsPost.com.
-
67:45 - 67:47For more information and commentary
from James Corbett, -
67:47 - 67:49please go to CorbettReport.com.
-
67:49 - 67:51[Subtitles by "Adjuvant"]
- Title:
- Sibel Edmonds on Gladio B - Part 1
- Description:
-
Audio MP3: http://www.corbettreport.com/?p=6758
In this ground-breaking interview, famed FBI whistleblower and Boiling Frogs Post founder Sibel Edmonds lays out the thread connecting NATO's Gladio operations to Turkish paramilitaries and ultra-nationalists, and how the operation continues through cooperation with terrorists and the Islamization of Central Asia and the Caucasus. From Abdullah Çatlı's remarkable life (and death) to the rise of Fethullah Gulen's $25 billion (CIA-supported) Islamic network to the NATO takeover of the Afghan poppy crop in the wake of 9/11, you won't want to miss a moment of this riveting conversation.
- Video Language:
- English
- Duration:
- 01:07:51
Adjuvant edited English subtitles for Sibel Edmonds on Gladio B - Part 1 | ||
Adjuvant edited English subtitles for Sibel Edmonds on Gladio B - Part 1 | ||
Adjuvant edited English subtitles for Sibel Edmonds on Gladio B - Part 1 | ||
Adjuvant edited English subtitles for Sibel Edmonds on Gladio B - Part 1 | ||
Adjuvant edited English subtitles for Sibel Edmonds on Gladio B - Part 1 | ||
Adjuvant edited English subtitles for Sibel Edmonds on Gladio B - Part 1 | ||
Adjuvant edited English subtitles for Sibel Edmonds on Gladio B - Part 1 | ||
Adjuvant edited English subtitles for Sibel Edmonds on Gladio B - Part 1 |