Black Feminism & the Movement for Black Lives: Barbara Smith, Reina Gossett, Charlene Carruthers

Black Feminism remains a foundational theory and practice guiding social justice movements for Black lives.

On Thursday, Jan 21 of Creating Change our Opening Plenary featured a panel with Charlene Carruthers, Reina Gossett and Barbara Smith.

Black Feminism challenges us to act on the inextricable connections of sexism, class oppression, racism, ableism, homophobia and transphobia. As the contemporary Movement for Black Lives has invigorated resistance to racism and structural violence, this panel reflects on ways that Black Feminism shapes and informs the current struggles and successes.

Barbara Smith, beginning in the 1970s, has broken new ground as a black feminist, lesbian, activist, author, publisher, and elected official. Barbara co-founded the Combahee River Collective in 1974. The organization wrote the Combahee River Collective Statement that is one of the earliest explorations of the intersection of multiple oppressions, including racism and heterosexism, critiquing both sexual oppression in the black community and racism within the wider feminist movement. Barbara Smith founded Kitchen Table: Women of Color Press, publisher of numerous pivotal works by feminists of color. Barbara served two terms on the Albany (NY) Common Council and currently works in the City of Albany Mayor’s Office spearheading initiatives that address economic, racial, and social inequality.

Reina Gossett is an activist, writer, and artist and the 2014-2016 Activist-In-Residence at Barnard College’s Center for Research on Women. She served as membership director at the Sylvia Rivera Law Project, lifting the voices and power of trans and gender non-conforming people. Reina was awarded the George Soros Justice Advocacy Fellowship by the Open Society Foundation to work with LGBT people navigating criminalization. During her fellowship she partnered with Critical Resistance to curtail the prison industrial complex by organizing low income LGBTGNC New Yorkers in a campaign that successfully stopped construction of a new jail in the Bronx. Reina co-wrote and co-directed the new film Happy Birthday, Marsha!, highlighting the life of legendary transgender artist and activist, Marsha P. Johnson.

Charlene Carruthers is a Black, queer, feminist community organizer and writer with over ten years of experience in racial justice, feminist and youth leadership development movement work. She currently serves as the national director of the Black Youth Project 100 (BYP100), an activist member-led organization of Black 18-35 year olds dedicated to creating justice and freedom for all Black people. With a focus on intersectional liberation, Charlene’s organizing spans a broad range of topics. She currently serves as a board member of SisterSong, a reproductive justice organization that promotes solidarity among women of color, as well as being a member of a historic 2015 delegation of young activists to Palestine, building solidarity between Black and Palestinian liberation movements.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

This panel, Black
Feminism and the Black Lives

Matter Movement--

[AUDIENCE CHEERS]

Barbara Smith, Reina Gossett,
and Charlene Carruthers.

[CHEERING AND CLAPPING]

[CHANTING]

It sounds like people know
these three people already.

Right?

I don't even-- so
I'm going to, though,

for those of you
who may not know.

Barbara Smith has
been breaking ground

as a Black feminist, a
lesbian, a writer, a publisher,

a teacher, an elected official.

In four decades, Barbara
founded publishing houses

and collectives organized around
reproductive rights and prison

reform, and is truly one of
the founders of Black feminism.

[CHEERING]

Charlene Carruthers,
on the end--

Charlene Carruthers is a
black queer feminist community

organizer.

Currently, Charlene
is National Director

for Black Youth Project 100.

[CHEERING]

And serves on the Board of Song.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
Just a song.

Just a song.

It's just a song, that's all.

And then last, but never
least, Reina Gossett.

[CHEERING]

Reina has worked for the
Sylvia Romero Law Project

and was awarded a
George Soros Fellowship

to work with LGBT people
navigating the criminal justice

system.

She is also the
co-writer and co-director

of Happy Birthday Marcia.

Yes, it is indeed
my great pleasure

to introduce you to our
keynote panel Black Feminism

and the Movement of Black Lives.

Oh, and then there's me.

[LAUGHTER]

My name, again, is
Stacey Long Simmons.

I'm Director of Public
Policy and Government Affairs

here at the Task Force.

[CHEERS]

Oh, you don't have your water?

MAN (CHANTING):
Unapologetically--

AUDIENCE (TOGETHER): Black!

MAN (CHANTING):
Unapologetically--

Black!

MAN (CHANTING):
Unapologetically--

Black, black,
black, black, black.

That's right.

That's right.

Those are our folks.

They go anywhere.

No, that's all right.

Listen.

We designed this panel to be
a conversation amongst us.

And so even though
I'm moderator,

I'm really here to just
keep things going--

basically, to keep us on time.

So I would like to get us
started with a basic question.

You know, like, we should not
assume that people all share

the same definitions.

And one of the
definitions that I

think could be really
interesting to explore

is really what is
Black feminism?

So when we started
talking about Black feminism

in the early 1970s,
we were trying

to assert that Black
women had a right

to define their own
political destiny

and their own political issues.

This did not get us much
love, I have to say.

Many people who
created what we think

of as a modern Black feminist
movement were also lesbians.

We generally were either
actually poor or working class

or identified as such.

And we just wanted to
make a space for ourselves

in this world.

We saw that we had to talk about
all the kinds of oppressions

that affected our
lives, not just one.

And we definitely had
a critique and were

reacting to the single issue
politics of the white women's

movement-- the Bourgeois
white women's movement.

We were also critical
of the Black movement.

By that time it was Black
nationalism and Black power,

not civil rights--

so of course,
inflected by, but it

had moved on to another stage.

And those politics were
generally male-defined.

And we also were critical
of the single-issued focus

of the new gay
liberation movement.

So we were just trying,
as I said, to carve out

a place for ourselves.

But we also understood
that if we were successful

and if we were able
to do that, then we

would have carved out a
space for every other kind

of individual--

every other kind.

Because even though
we did not necessarily

encompass every
single identity, we

had an analysis and a practice
that said that wherever

you came from--

be you.

| love that.

That works for me.

That kind of
mentality, that kind

of consciousness, that kind
of perspective-- be you.

We believe that.

And we knew that if we could,
as I said, get a foothold

and get this rolling
that it would make space

and revolution for everybody.

That's right.

[APPLAUSE]

So there has been--

oh, I'm sorry.

REINA GOSSETT: I don't
think I could follow

one of the founders
of Black feminism

in answering that question.

STACEY LONG SIMMONS:
Yeah-- please.

Well, I guess I
can't say anything--

I think the thing that
I think about when

I think about Black feminism
is this moment of just

heightened violence for
Black women who are trans.

[APPLAUSE] The highest documented
homicides ever

happened this past
year and the year

before was the
highest before that.

And so when I think
about Black feminism,

I think about how we cannot
get rid of gender norms

and transphobia and the gender
binary without getting rid

of everything else
that co-constitutes it,

which is exactly what
you are saying, right?

We can't afford to
take in this, what

I think is, like, an
assimilationist push

that transphobia can
happen without addressing

anti-black racism.

Right?

That--

[APPLAUSE]

--or that transphobia-- we
can get rid of transphobia

without addressing the
criminalization of sex work

or the criminalization
of HIV and AIDS.

So, yeah.

That's, I mean-- thank you.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS: So how I
even came into Black feminism

is not even through the
words of Black feminism.

It's through my mother,
through learning

the history of black women like
Harriet Tubman and Audre Lorde

and Dr. Dorothy Height, without
all of this extra language

that we learn.

You know, shout out to Kim
Crenshaw for intersectionality.

But as we know--

if we look at the Combahee
River Collective statement

and what it says,
and what you wrote

about interlocking oppressions.

This idea that
shouldn't be radical,

that Black women
are many things.

And that the ways that
we are impacted by power,

there are so many ways that we
experience oppressive power.

And on the other hand, Black
feminism is a way for us

to build collective power
that is absolutely rooted

in a critical analysis
of anti-Black racism

and patriarchy, but with
the understanding that--

Claudia Jones said this.

She's a black woman communist.

And she would talk about if
black women were to be free,

then all people
would be free, right?

But I think we got to like
actually push that, right?

We got to push how
we think about what

it means to be a Black woman.

I think Black
feminism requires us

to expand how we think of
womanhood outside of binaries

and all that good
stuff, all that language

that people in this room know.

But, essentially, this
idea that we should all

be able to live within
our full dignity, right

and I believe that there
are so many issues that

are black feminist issues.

The occupation of Palestine
is a Black feminist issue.

REINA GOSSETT: Yes.

[CHEERING]

Right?

REINA GOSSETT: Yes.

Because what is happening
due to the Israeli occupation--

there have been streams, scores
of reports of the sterilization

of women from East Africa.

That is a Black feminist issue.

REINA GOSSETT: That's right.

Right?

And so Black
feminism at its core

opens up so many possibilities
and so many conversations.

And I think it can just blow
your mind if you dive deep

into Black feminism.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

STACEY LONG SIMMONS: I
want to invite us to really

have a conversation, right?

So, like, don't look at me after
the last question gets answered

because, you know,
I have some things I

want to lift up that I heard,
but there's so much there.

And there's two things
that came to my mind

as you were all talking.

One was the
disparity and the way

in which, when
something happens to us,

something happens
to our bodies--

and I'm thinking specifically
about Sandra Bland--

there does not appear
to be any caring.

It's just, like, you
know, oh, whatever.

|t's so-- we're so
disposable in society,

until we are being
appropriated or exploited.

Right?

Everybody wants a booty.

Everybody wants thick lips.

Everybody wants
our fashion sense,

you know, all those
things, right?

But it doesn't get
to the reality, which

is we are no longer
picking cotton,

but we are still
subjugated, exploited,

ripped off, completely
underpaid, undervalued,

so many different things
that I can sort of think

about in terms of the workplace.

I thank, thank thank
Claudia so much for sharing

her story in terms of how--

one side of the picture is you
are a person who is working.

You don't know if you're going
to be able to keep your job

or not.

You don't have no contract.

You have no rights.

You have no access
to protections.

And on the other side, you
have a job with benefits.

And your kids can actually
see you, not worry,

not stressed, not
overworked, not exploited

because you've got
someplace to go

to air your grievance if
something does happen.

So I said a lot, but I
really want us to dig in.

We have this time on this stage.

We have this moment.

I feel the energy
in the audience.

Like, people really, really
want us to take the time.

So in particular, now
that we've sort of

thrown out some of
these things, can we

talk about how things have
sort of evolved and brought us

to current day Black Lives
Matter movement and some

of the parallels?

REINA GOSSETT: I just want to-- yeah,
I mean, I think about--

for me, when I think
about that question,

I think about Marsha P. Johnson,
who was a Black trans woman.

And I'm coming from
New York, and that's

the history and the legacies
I'm inheriting, you know,

of New York City.

So Marsha P. Johnson
was a Black trans woman.

She was one of the first
people to resist the police

at the Stonewall riots in 1969.

And so it was a really
powerful moment.

And the following year,
to commemorate her actions

and the actions of other
people, folks organized--

and maybe people in
the room were there--

folks organized the first
Christopher Street Liberation

Day.

Right?

And it started on purpose
at the Woman's House

of Detention Center, in order to
connect the mass incarceration

of Black people.

It was no coincidence that
members of the Black Panther

Party were incarcerated in
the House of Detention Center.

When the Christopher
Street Liberation Day

march arrived there
chanting, free our sisters,

free ourselves.

And they did that
because they knew

it was really important to
make those kinds of connections

between anti-Black racism,
police violence, state

violence, and the policing
of queer and trans people

in our community.

And I think that's
so powerful, where

they knew that there couldn't
be pride for some of us,

unless there was
liberation for all of us.

And that's one of
the things that--

I think so many of us are
really responding to right now

is that in this moment,
there's such a push.

I would phrase it as a white
gay assimilationist push

to think about single issues,
rather than about liberation

for all of us.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:

Even just how we talk about
Black feminism and the history

and who made it--

folks, in my experience,
people have not

marked Marsha P. Johnson's
activism, her work,

the moment in which she
popped off the LGBTQ rights

movement in so many ways
as a Black feminist moment.

That is a Black feminist
moment, whether she identified

as a Black feminist
or not, because it

was absolutely intersectional.

They saw the connections between
many experiences of oppression.

And so what we are seeing
in this moment, I believe,

is an insistence
and just a breaking

of the traditional narratives
of what Black liberation should

look like, who
should be visible,

and who should be
at the forefront,

because it can't
just be you, Reina,

talking about Marsha
P. It can't just

be Black trans women talking
about what's happening

to the Black trans women.

That's not Black feminism.

It can't be it.

We actually have
to do a lot better.

Not just a lot better, we
have to do better, period.

And that requires us to
have really uncomfortable

conversations,
necessary conversations.

And sometimes, you
know, people's feelings

might be hurt,
but it's necessary

because folks' lives
are on the line.

REINA GOSSETT: That's right.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
Right?

And it's real.

It's very real.

BARBARA SMITH: Well, as the
only person in this discussion

right here-- although,
I know there are people

in the audience who can share
what I am going to say--

as the only person right here
who actually lived through Jim

Crow, the more things change,
the more they stay the same.

It is heartbreaking to me when
Michael Brown was murdered

in Ferguson, and
the days of people

speaking out,
protesting, civil unrest

in the face of a
callous and unlawful--

I'll try to be nice--
unlawful police state.

When I was watching that--

I was going to say
criminal, but OK.

I said unlawful instead.

But when I was watching
that-- and it was the summer.

It was the late summer, and
that's when things like that

used to happen back in the 60s.

And I thought, God,
this is so similar.

It is so similar.

And here I am, an official
senior citizen and my people

are still out in the streets.

And my people are still
being slaughtered, shot down

like dogs.

The Tamir Rice situation--
because there are countless

ones, many of which we
don't even know about--

but the Tamir Rice one
particularly, particularly

gets to me because
I'm from Cleveland.

I was born in Cleveland.

And it's just so unspeakable.

And they can't find fault.
They can't find anything about

shooting a 12-year-old two
seconds before the car--

the police car hadn't
even stopped rolling,

and they're slaughtering him.

Be that as it may, I take a
huge amount of just inspiration

and hope from Black Lives
Matters, because it's incisive

and it's brilliant
and it is inclusive.

It encompasses so
many of the things

that we wish to see in
the best organizing.

The fact that we're having this
conversation here, Creating

Change.

How many Creating
Change's have I gone to?

I've haven't come
in a long time,

but I was there at the
creation of Creating Change--

pretty near.

And the fact that we can
have this conversation

and the LGBTQ
context, that's huge.

That's really huge.

And that's why you got me out
of Albany, because I mean,

I don't leave--

this is the farthest
I've been from Albany

in a number of years,
because I will go somewhere

in the Northeast.

But I will not--

yeah, so here I am,
because I wanted to meet

these sisters, these sisters.

And I wanted to have
this chance to meet you

and to have this dialogue.

Thank you.

[CLAPPING AND CHEERING]

But as always for people
involved in struggle,

we are always on an edge where
it can go one way or another.

And that means that
those of us who

are alert to struggle
and to justice, we

have to always be examining
and figuring out, OK,

what do we do next and
which way do we go?

As one of my dear sisters
in Combahee said--

Demita Frazier said-- this
didn't get into the statement,

but it's one of my favorite
quotes, "This is not a mix"--

maybe it did--

"This is not a mix cake.

We have got to make
this up from scratch."

Yes.

That's what she said.

So that's the kind of attitude
and the spirit with which

I think we need to go forward.

REINA GOSSETT:
I think that's so right.

Did I cut you off?

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
No, go ahead.

I think it's about
looking at the root, right?

It's about looking
at root causes.

It's about looking at
underpinning logics that aren't

about our liberation, right?

I think that's why so
many of us are just

extremely disheartened about
the invitation to local law

enforcement, law enforcement
in general, and ICE this year.

Because, to me,
Black feminism is not

about making police and
prisons gay-friendly.

It's not about making
ICE gay-friendly.

And it's certainly
not about making

a military or colonial
occupation of Indigenous people

in US or in Palestine
gay-friendly.

And so many of us are just
totally distraught that that

would be something that
could ever happen in a queer

liberationist movement.

And it makes us
ask ourselves,

is this a queer
liberationist movement?

And if it's not, what do
we need to do about that?

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
Yeah.

So to that point, I think
about Cece McDonald--

the dope, amazing
Cece MacDonald.

REINA GOSSETT:
originally from Chicago

Yes, Cece is from Chicago,
for folks who don't know.

It's just a lot of greatness
that comes out of this city.

I recently read an interview
that she did and Cece--

they say this in many
places that prisons

aren't safe for anybody, right?

And if you don't know
Cece McDonald's story,

you should read actually
her words, because she can

explain it better than I can.

But I think what's important
is that someone who

was incarcerated--

put in a cage after
defending herself,

refused several things,
refused to fight

to be moved to a different
facility under the belief

that there was no
exceptionalism, that she

shouldn't be treated differently
because prisons weren't

safe for anybody, who refused
to give up, who organized

and had support with people
from the inside and the outside.

And this idea that,
again, it's not

just about making prisons more
safe or more trans-friendly

or more queer-friendly,
but actually the idea

that prison should not exist.

Period.

Period.

BARBARA SMITH: There's that.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
Right?

REINA GOSSETT: That's right

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
Right?

And that we can live in a world
where prisons don't exist,

where police don't
exist, and where

we deal with harm and
conflicts in our communities

in a completely different way.

Right?

And one thing that I have the
name in this space is that--

one thing that we've dealt
with in our organization,

and what we're dealing with
right now in our organization

is the silence that happens
when violence happens

within our own communities,
particularly as it

relates to sexual violence.

And the difficult and the
heart-wrenching struggle

that when you commit a Black
or a feminist's values,

that you have to actually
have to struggle with and not

throw things underneath the
bus or the carpet, right?

And name what you don't
know, and go to people who do

know way more than you know.

And we have a responsibility to,
like, actually put our values

into practice, and struggle with
that and not be perfect, right?

And perfection isn't the goal,
but integrity to our values

is, and accountability is.

And so I'm all
about us struggling

to create a world where
we don't just tear down

the prisons and the
police, but we build up

something that's restorative
and transformative.

REINA GOSSETT:
Dismantle and grow.

STACEY LONG SIMMONS:
Charlene, I want

to pick up where you
left on that because one

of the things that I
struggle with personally

is what do you do when
you, yourself, have

been the victim of
some type of violence?

You've lost a loved one or you,
yourself, have been assaulted.

The natural, air
quotes, "inclination"

is to want justice
and accountability.

And so what my mind does is--

what do you do?

How do you be in relationship
with something, like,

as a member of your community--

who, in my instance, was
the next door neighbor.

And I wanted lots of things to
happen to that individual who

did harm to my loved one.

And so when you talk about
getting rid of the prisons

and offering
alternatives to police,

I need something,
like, right now

for the people who I know are
getting gunned down, stabbed,

sexually assaulted,
whatever it is, because--

just because.

So it's a provocative
point and I really

want to hear more
about that piece.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
Yeah, so right now
on 35th and Michigan,

at the Chicago Police
Department Headquarters,

there are people at the
police review board hearing

who are calling for the firing
of officer, Dante Servin, who

killed Rekia Boyd.

She's a young Black woman.

And he was indicted.

He had charges of manslaughter.

And I sat next to
Miss Angela, who is

Rekia's mom, in the courtroom.

And one of the things she said,
I think is really important,

is she said they never talk
about the girls and the women.

They only talk about
the men and the boys.

They don't ever talk
about our daughters who

are slain by police officers.

And so that family had to sit
in that courtroom day after day.

They had to sit with the
reality that their daughter,

their sister was taken away.

That system will never
give them justice.

That system will never
bring Rekia back.

And it is never my
place or anybody's place

to tell a family what
they should want, right?

Or what they should
fight for, right?

And it is our place, I
believe, to support the family

and to be there in any way
that they want us to be there

or they don't want
us to be there,

just to be clear about that.

And so there are people
still harming people.

The prisons have
some of the people

who harm some of the people.

And there's a lot of people
who aren't in prisons, period.

And so if we're going to
get serious about dealing

with the problems we
have in our communities

and not just putting
people in cages,

there has to be an
alternative to prisons.

There has to be an alternative
to policing if we're

going to be serious about that.

We can put Dante
Servin in prison.

We can put, I mean,
Daniel Holtzclaw

is going to prison for
however many years, right?

And tomorrow, a
Black person will

be killed by a police officer.

Tomorrow, somebody is going
to be a victim or a survivor

of some type of violence.

And so when is
that going to stop?

And prisons, we've had
them for quite some time.

Police and prisons have
not always existed, right?

And they've been built on
the backs of Black people.

Right, so they're not an absolute.

So why not dream of
something different, right

where people are actually
able to deal with what

has happened in their lives?

BARBARA SMITH: May I ask, did
you say that police have not

always existed?

Is that what you said?

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
No, the police have
not always existed.

If we look at the history
of policing in America,

they are rooted
in slave patrols.

BARBARA SMITH: Well, that's what
I was going to say.

Their existence and
relationship to the history

of people of African
heritage is like this.

It's like this.

Yeah, it is.

And we got to break that.

We have to completely
break that apart.

And the thing is this
country's obsession

with violence and with guns--

I always say, whenever
they get into,

you know, they always talk
about all the other things

that those guns
represent for them

and that the Second Amendment
represents for them.

What it really represents
is their fantasy idea of,

like, if I have to get rid
of and kill one of them,

I will be armed
and ready to do so.

And that's just that.

But I just wanted to say
about this entire line

of conversation.

It's not possible to have
post-revolutionary solutions

in a pre-revolutionary society.

So the thing is we live in
a pre-revolutionary society.

And we might say that we
live far, far far, far back.

We are not even close.

But be that as it may,
like, having the long view,

the way you get to that
post-revolutionary society

is that you have vision.

So you two are expressing
vision for what it should be

and that's how you get
to what it is and can be.

I guess I'm just trying to
take that kind of stage,

because when I was in my 20s,
I thought that everything would

be solved by the time I was 30.

I really did.

All of us did--

solved.

S-O-L-V-E-D, solved.

That's what we thought because
we were just like everybody.

But we living in revolutionary
times, when the whole society--

all of you as society
went upside down--

and also globally.

It was happening globally.

A lot was going on.

So we were encouraged.

We were encouraged.

But the thing is that
at a certain point,

we said, oh, well,
I guess we're going

to be slogging for a lifetime.

REINA GOSSETT:
It's a prolonged,
protracted struggle.

BARBARA SMITH:
Yeah, we made that commitment.

REINA GOSSETT:
I think the thing
that I think about is

that in terms of
harm and violence,

the people who are
doing the most harm

will never be caged in a prison.

The people who are
doing the most harm

are actually
running the prisons.

They're running the government.

They're running ICE.

They're occupying the land we're
on right now and Palestine.

And unfortunately, they're being
invited to creating change.

So I think that's a really,
really intense thing

to struggle with.

And it takes a bit
of a mindframe shift

to understand that police
and prisons are not

built to deal with the real harm
that happens in our community.

They're about controlling
and killing our community.

And punishment
and exiling people

are some of the biggest
obstacles to solving harm that

is so real in our community.

BARBARA SMITH:
I don't want to forget to say this
because

I'm in Chicago,
and I'm inside the Hilton.

And I just want to talk
about the first time I ever

came to Chicago.

When I was outside of
the Hilton, it was 1968--

August of 1968.

I was over in that park
with the 10,000 or so

of us who were there,
protesting what

was going on in relationship
to the war in Vietnam.

That was an intersectional
issue, particularly,

if you were a young Black woman
like I was, because at the very

same time that I was committed
enough to come to bad Chicago--

the "Battle of Chicago,"
because Daley, Sr. was in.

And we were told, we were warned
what the police were going

to be doing to such as us.

But that very fact
that, as I said,

I still made that decision to be
here and to witness for peace.

Black people in my age
group were telling me

that the stopping the war in
Vietnam was a white issue.

You see what I'm saying?

So even before feminism,
intersectional politics

is like, well, I
also happen to notice

that a lot of the people
over there fighting and dying

are young men of color
who are all living

in poverty in this country.

And who are they killing but our
brothers and sisters of color

in that country.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
So just as folks were
telling you,

like, the war is not a
Black feminist's, or even

a Black people's issue--

No, it was not
black black issue.

I mean, I'm being told--

in this moment in
Chicago, people

are telling us that Black
LGBTQ issues, or Black

gay-- they don't even say that.

Black gay and lesbian issues
are not Black issues, right?

That's not new.

That's not new.

And in this particular
moment where

we're calling for the
resignation of Mayor Rahm

Emanuel, because he gotta go.

Yes.

He gotta go.

He gotta go-- where
we're calling for the 40%

that CPD takes from our public
service budget in Chicago.

40% of the city's public
service budget, nearly 40%--

we're calling for
that to change.

We are being, like, pummeled
by homophobic and transphobic

rhetoric, and rhetoric
that has turned

into actual physical
violence as well.

STACEY LONG SIMMONS:
Coming from where?

Coming from where?

Name it.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
Both coming from the
police state itself,

and then also coming from folks
who are in movement spaces--

Black folks within
movement space.

And so this whole idea
of being told to wait,

to get in the background, and
all this other foolishness

is unacceptable.

And we know that we come
from a lineage of Black folks

who have said, that
shit is unacceptable.

And we will not wait.

And we cannot wait.

And it's like, how
dare you, like, do work

in the name of Malcolm X
or Martin Luther King Jr.--

those two black
men that folks love

to hold up who were absolutely
against the idea of waiting

their turn, you know?

And so we refuse to wait.

Like, we don't
have time to wait.

Our lives are on the line.

You know, don't be fooled.

It's much bigger
than Rahm Emanuel.

It's bigger than CPD.

It runs deep, like, the evil and
just the violence that exists.

REINA GOSSETT:
That's right.

I mean it brings me back to
that phone call conversation

that we're having about
interlocking oppression,

and how that is such a key
component of Black feminism

and of queer Black people.

And I was speaking
to my sibling, Che,

who is a brilliant trans femme.

Some people know Che.

And we were talking about--

because there was a call for
a boycott of Creating Change.

That energy's in
the room, right?

People are really upset about
what is going down this year.

And Che was talking to
me a little bit about how

from June Jordan
to James Baldwin,

the struggle for
Palestinian liberation

has always been a
Black feminist issue.

It's never not been a
Black feminist issue.

And this idea of having to bring
that to Black consciousness

is actually portrays a kind
of anti-Black sentiment

that we weren't there.

But actually, it was much more.

But we've always
been there, right?

And so I really appreciate
that framework of this

is the time to claim our
resistance and our desire

to transform
interlocking oppressions.

BARBARA SMITH: Having
heard the same things

that you're talking
about, I'm appalled

to hear that they're
still trotting out

that same old ignorance.

Some people are always
late, you know--

and have a fragile
hold on reality,

because if you look at
Black liberation

struggles that of
which we are aware

just as you invoked those names,
a steady continuum of people,

names known and not known
who have fought for justice.

| was personally told
that Black homosexuality

would be the death of the race.

And I said-- this is back
in, what, '78 or something

like that at Howard University.

And I said to my
friends, I said,

so they don't know about all
these children we're raising,

I guess?

[LAUGHTER]

Death of the race, yeah.

Surrounded-- surrounded
by children, yes.

But be that as it may,
we just have to stay firm

and stand firm, and we also
have to know our history

and to know that we did
not invent ourselves,

and that we are not alone.

When we understand that we're
on a long continuum of freedom

fighters--

we can track it back,
you know, centuries

in this country,
millennia in others.

Wherever you wish
to start, there's

been a steady continuum
of freedom fighters

of all genders,
sexual expressions,

sexual orientations,
races, classes--

you name it--
abilities/disabilities,

ethnicities, religions.

You name it, we have always--

we're in a continuum.

And the thing is
if you understand

that you're in that
continuum, you do take heart,

because what it means is that
you have a lot of sisters,

brothers, and others.

Do you see what I'm saying?

That you know that you're
not the only person who

thinks that way.

You find that person back
in some unbeknownst century,

you know, in some other country
who spoke some other language,

and who defined themselves
totally different from you.

And yet, when it came right
down to it and the time for it,

they stood up for freedom.

So that's how you get through.

That is how you get through.

REINA GOSSETT:
I mean, I think that what
you're saying is so real.

Historical erasure, I feel like,
is one of the key violences

that many of us are
navigating as Black trans

people, as Black women,
as Black feminists.

BARBARA SMITH:
And could I say something
else about the trans movement?

30 years ago-- whenever--
those of you who are lesbian

feminists in the 70's--

you don't have to
raise your hand--

but the thing is you know
how we thought about gender.

And you know how we
thought about these issues.

We were undeveloped
in our understandings

and in our politics.

But I'm proud to say that
I was never a separatist

and never thought that
only one particular gender

conventionally
defined on a binary,

that one particular gender had
a right to freedom and everybody

else was an oppressor.

Never thought that.

And we took some licks
for that as well.

But as I said, our
consciousness--

and I'm just really glad
to have lived to see that

our consciousness and our
practice can change around

things that we felt very,
very uncomfortable about--

going to gay pride
parades in Boston,

where I lived in the 1970s,
which were jubilant and seeing,

really, men in drag,
not necessarily

people who define
themselves as trans,

but feeling uncomfortable
because we felt we

were being satirized as women.

You know, women were always
being put down, belittled.

And we thought
they're satirizing us.

At a certain point in the 1970s,
we began to grasp, oh, no.

That's not what it is at all.

And we began to understand
that this is just

another way of being a full--

you know, like a fully-realized
wonderful human being

on the planet.

And we didn't have any
problems with that.

And as I said, that was in
the space of one decade,

starting with, like,
oh, I don't know.

Are they making fun of us?

Or you know, I don't know what
they think about us.

And then the racism came in
and other kinds of things, too.

And then at a certain
point, we said, oh, no.

We're just all in this together.

REINA GOSSETT: Yes.

BARBARA SMITH:
And we were happy about that.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS: But
we still got work to do.

REINA GOSSETT: We
still have work to do.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS: We've
still got a lot of work to do.

STACEY LONG SIMMONS: I
was going to say that.

We do.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
Like what it means to be

in sisterhood with women
of various experiences.

Right?

We've got work to do.

You know, I say this,
you don't get cookies

just because you a cis person
who talks about trans folks.

Like, you don't do that.

You don't get cookies for that.

You should not get cookies.

I don't get cookies.

You don't get cookies
with doing what you should

be doing in the first place.

STACEY LONG SIMMONS:
I want that t-shirt.

You don't get no cookies just
for talking about trans people.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
Right, for doing what
you're supposed to be doing.

STACEY LONG SIMMONS: Right.

Right.

Right.

This is one thing
that Patrisse--

the way Patrisse
Cullors put it for me.

Patrisse is one of my homegirls.

She's the co-founder
of Black Lives Matter.

And she named that as
one of the growing edges

that we have for the
Black liberation movement.

And with any growth edge,
it ain't comfortable, right?

And it ain't going
be comfortable.

But there's so much joy
when it's a Black liberation

movement, and you
look around and it's

like all types of expressions
of Blackness in our entirety,

right?

You can't even actually put
all of that in one room.

You can't put Blackness in
its entirety in one room,

because we are
everything and then some.

REINA GOSSETT: And
we always have been.

And then some, you know.

BARBARA SMITH: Can I say, that's
a very scholarly statement,

too.

Very scholarly,
because it's true.

STACEY LONG SIMMONS: So
I want to put out there

because everybody
who's here came

to listen and to learn and to
have something to take away.

And there's one of
the things that we all

talked about when we
were preparing for this,

which I want to bring forward.

I want us to talk about
the self-care piece,

about the healing piece, about
the sustenance and sustaining

and about the way you
love or don't love,

or, you know, the things
that make it possible

for you to spend decades
committed to the struggle.

I'm sorry, you're looking
at me with big eyes.

BARBARA SMITH:
No, I'm so excited.

STACEY LONG SIMMONS:
Good.

Good.

Good.

I'm excited about
this discussion.

Good.

So if we could-- because we
have to wrap up shortly--

If we could share some of that.

I know, we could do--

we need to do
another one, right?

[CHEERING]

We need to do another one.

REINA GOSSETT:
Or transform and
continue to transform

this space into a Black feminist
queer liberation space--

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
Hey, hey!

REINA GOSSETT:
--that would never invite ICE

and is in solidarity with Palestinian struggles

and against
settler colonialism

I mean, that is really
what we're asking for.

Right?

That's right.

BARBARA SMITH:
So self care.

One of the reasons
that I've been

able to stay at it as
long as I have is I

think because I can see
the humorous side of almost

anything.

And humor really helps
us to get through some

of our lowest and worst moments.

I also-- and I'm
quoting Demita tonight,

I guess, because I'm in
Chicago, and she's from Chicago.

But she talked
about how we believe

in live revolutionaries,
not dead martyrs.

That's what she said.

And what that meant
is that we weren't

trying to show
somebody something so

that we wouldn't be here
as elders to do the work.

We wanted to do decades of work.

And that meant going to to all
kinds of healers, alternative

and mainstream.

It meant, for me, trying to
get enough sleep every night.

It makes a big difference.

There are just so
many little things

that you can do for yourself--
being surrounded by people who

really have your back and care
about you, who are looking out

for you.

This makes a big difference.

And if it's not making you feel
good inside and smile inside,

then get out of it,
because it is not for you.

You do not have to be miserable,
nor should you be miserable

trying to make change.

If it's not filling
your heart, and--

at least sometimes,
you're just laughing,

giggling for joy, because
this shit is just so wrong,

you know.

And you understand
that and you're

with people who do
understand that--

then, as I said, get out of it.

Find where you can be to
work on this lifelong project

of revolutionary
transformation and still feel

whole and good inside.

[APPLAUSE]

REINA GOSSETT:
I guess I'm thinking about
the really honest answer.

And I think black feminism
calls for honesty,

and that's why I've been trying
to be extra honest tonight.

But I think the honest
answer is my self-care-

it changed a lot in learning
from the Disability Justice

Collective that has
been doing work here

for a really long time
to transform cultures

of ableism and structural
forms of ableism

and the ideology of
eugenics, so that,

like, a certain body should
be able to do certain things

and our leadership should
look a particular kind of way.

And as I grappled and began to
understand my own relationship

to being a disabled person,
it really shifted a lot.

And I had this idea that
I had to be, you know,

Katniss Everdeen.

Right?

I had to be kind of like that
fearless person who operates

in a kind of austere way.

That no emotion, that is
the way to be a leader.

And it really shifted.

It shifted towards joy.

It shifted towards
slowing down a lot,

making sure things that--

if our community
can't be a part of it,

then we're not really doing,
quote unquote, "the work."

So we need to ensure ways
that all of us can be there.

And so that I think
about self-care

in kind of that structural
way and my own changing

relationship to it.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
Yeah, I agree with you.

It is hard.

People ask me this question
all the time, especially

Samantha Masters, over there.

What is self-care?

What does your self-care
regimen look like?

All the time.

And I never have an answer.

Like, I never have an
answer, because I--

there are things
that I do to help

take better care of myself.

Like, I cook.

I love to cook.

I'll go, like, binge
grocery store shopping,

where I'll go to, like,
five grocery stores

to get a couple
of bags of things.

REINA GOSSETT: I love it.

I want to go.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
That's one of the things I do.

That's what I do.

I'll go to grocery stores.

But I'm really into
food and that's

one of the things that
continues to bring me joy--

being able to like feed
people and see people smiling.

I am oftentimes really
uncomfortable with how

we talk about self-care
in movement spaces.

Because sometimes
self-care is, like,

without accountability or
responsibility to the community

that you're in.

I mean, like, I'm
taking a self-care day,

and I'm just doing it, and
I'm not telling you about it

until it's over with kind of
thing to just disappearing.

People will disappear in
community with other folks,

right?

And for many reasons--

they may not feel supported.

They may not be supported,
not just a feeling.

And so I think it's a
responsibility of ours

to take up community
care of each other,

and that self-care can't
just be the responsibility

of individuals,
because this stuff will

kill you or try to kill you.

People will try to kill you.

Every day, as Lucille Clifton
said, every day, you know,

something has tried to kill me.

It has failed.

I hope it continues to fail.

I really do hope it
continues to fail,

because folks try it every day.

BARBARA SMITH: --in Chicago.

And it requires--

BARBARA SMITH: No joke.

CHARLENE CARRUTHERS:
And it requires
a village of people.

Janae Taylor tells
me this all the time.

It requires a village of people
to be around you and with you

to help you take
care of yourself.

REINA GOSSETT: That's right.

BARBARA SMITH: And can I give
an example that just happened?

So if you got in here earlier,
before things started,

you saw a different
setup on the stage.

You saw some high
chairs, you know?

And I looked at those chairs,
I thought, oh my goodness.

Because I don't
sit in high chairs.

They're very uncomfortable.

There's something
called arthritis.

I don't know if
you've heard of it,

but it's from wear and tear.

And sitting on a chair like that
would've just been miserable.

But the thing is when we were
talking about the stage setup,

I said, oh, no.

That's what's up there.

Oh, no.

You did it because
you want people to be

able to see us more easily.

And they pointed out that
you have these jumbo-trons.

So you don't really
need to see us.

But, in any event, they
changed the chairs.

And it was really you
sisters who said, no, just

have them change the chairs.

STACEY LONG SIMMONS: Right.

That's right.

BARBARA SMITH:
And that happened.

And the thing is--

because it is always about, no,
you don't have to do it for me.

You don't have to do it for me.

But see, that was sisters
taking care of a sister.

I appreciate it.

STACEY LONG SIMMONS:
That's right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So this panel was
everything, right?

This panel was everything.

[CHEERING]

[APPLAUSE]

[INAUDIBLE]

Thank you.

STACEY LONG SIMMONS:
You all brought it.

You all brought it.