How to expose the corrupt | Peter Eigen | TEDxBerlin
-
0:15 - 0:17Well, what an act to follow!
-
0:18 - 0:22I was afraid that, speaking after lunch
I would find you all very sleepy -
0:22 - 0:27and very downtrodden,
but I guess he woke us all up. -
0:27 - 0:28Wonderful.
-
0:28 - 0:31Well, when I was invited to speak here,
-
0:31 - 0:35I was given the theme micro and macro.
-
0:35 - 0:38And I thought
I'd speak about small corruption, -
0:38 - 0:40and grand corruption.
-
0:40 - 0:42Because I always speak about corruption.
-
0:44 - 0:46But after seeing this audience here,
-
0:46 - 0:49after being energized and stimulated
-
0:49 - 0:52by so many exciting people in this room,
-
0:52 - 0:54I would like to change my subject a bit.
-
0:54 - 0:56I am going to speak about corruption,
-
0:56 - 0:59but I would like to juxtapose
-
0:59 - 1:01two different things.
-
1:01 - 1:05One is the large global economy,
-
1:06 - 1:08the large globalized economy,
-
1:09 - 1:12and the other one is the small,
and very limited, -
1:13 - 1:16capacity of our traditional governments
-
1:16 - 1:18and their international institutions
-
1:18 - 1:21to govern, to shape, this economy.
-
1:22 - 1:25Because there is this asymmetry,
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1:25 - 1:27which creates, basically,
-
1:27 - 1:29failing governance.
-
1:29 - 1:31Failing governance in many areas:
-
1:31 - 1:35in the area of corruption and the area
of destruction of the environment, -
1:35 - 1:38in the area of exploitation
of women and children, -
1:39 - 1:42in the area of climate change,
-
1:43 - 1:46in all the areas in which we really need
-
1:47 - 1:50a capacity to reintroduce
-
1:51 - 1:53the primacy of politics
-
1:54 - 1:56into the economy,
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1:56 - 1:59which is operating in a worldwide arena.
-
2:01 - 2:03And I think corruption,
-
2:03 - 2:04and the fight against corruption,
-
2:04 - 2:06and the impact of corruption,
-
2:06 - 2:08is probably
one of the most interesting ways -
2:08 - 2:11to illustrate what I mean
-
2:11 - 2:14with this failure of governance.
-
2:14 - 2:19Because I'm saying
that it is this lack of global reach -
2:20 - 2:25of state actors, state institutions
and international organizations. -
2:25 - 2:30It is the lack of their
longer term time horizon -
2:30 - 2:34in serving short term interest
of their constituencies -
2:34 - 2:39and dealing with short electoral periods.
-
2:40 - 2:42Which makes it so difficult
-
2:42 - 2:46to expect from our present
paradigm of governance -
2:46 - 2:48to help us to create a better world.
-
2:48 - 2:52Again, corruption is probably the area
-
2:53 - 2:55which illustrates best what I mean
-
2:55 - 2:59when I'm talking about this
inherent governance failure -
2:59 - 3:03which we are facing
in a globalized economy. -
3:03 - 3:06Let me talk about my own experience.
-
3:06 - 3:09I used to work as the director
-
3:09 - 3:12of the World Bank office in Nairobi
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3:12 - 3:14for East Africa.
-
3:14 - 3:16At that time, I noticed
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3:16 - 3:19that corruption, that grand corruption,
-
3:20 - 3:21that systematic corruption,
-
3:22 - 3:24was undermining everything
we were trying to do. -
3:25 - 3:27And therefore, I began
-
3:27 - 3:30to not only try to protect
-
3:30 - 3:32the work of the World Bank,
-
3:32 - 3:36our own projects,
our own programs against corruption, -
3:36 - 3:39but in general, I thought,
"We need a system -
3:39 - 3:41to protect the people
-
3:41 - 3:43in this part of the world
-
3:43 - 3:46from the ravages of corruption."
-
3:46 - 3:48And as soon as I started this work,
-
3:48 - 3:51I received a memorandum
from the World Bank, -
3:51 - 3:53from the legal department first,
-
3:53 - 3:56in which they said,
"You are not allowed to do this. -
3:56 - 3:59You are meddling in the internal
affairs of our partner countries. -
3:59 - 4:02This is forbidden by the charter
of the World Bank, -
4:03 - 4:06so I want you to stop your doings."
-
4:06 - 4:08In the meantime, I was chairing
-
4:08 - 4:10donor meetings, for instance,
-
4:10 - 4:12in which the various donors,
-
4:12 - 4:15and many of them like to be in Nairobi -
-
4:15 - 4:18it is true, it is one
of the unsafest cities of the world, -
4:19 - 4:21but they like to be there
because the other cities -
4:21 - 4:24are even less comfortable.
-
4:24 - 4:26And in these donor meetings, I noticed
-
4:26 - 4:28that many of the worst projects -
-
4:28 - 4:29which were put forward
-
4:29 - 4:32by our clients, by the governments,
-
4:32 - 4:34by promoters,
-
4:34 - 4:36many of them representing
-
4:36 - 4:38suppliers from the North -
-
4:38 - 4:40that the worst projects
-
4:40 - 4:42were realized first.
-
4:42 - 4:43Let me give you an example:
-
4:43 - 4:45a huge power project,
-
4:46 - 4:48300 million dollars,
-
4:49 - 4:52to be built smack into
one of the most vulnerable, -
4:52 - 4:54and one of the most beautiful,
-
4:54 - 4:56areas of western Kenya.
-
4:57 - 4:59And we all noticed immediately
-
4:59 - 5:02that this project had
no economic benefits: -
5:02 - 5:06It had no clients,
nobody would buy the electricity there, -
5:06 - 5:08nobody was interested
in irrigation projects. -
5:08 - 5:11To the contrary, we knew that this project
-
5:11 - 5:12would destroy the environment:
-
5:12 - 5:15It would destroy riparian forests,
-
5:15 - 5:19which were the basis
for the survival of nomadic groups, -
5:19 - 5:22the Samburu and the Turkana in this area.
-
5:23 - 5:26So everybody knew this is a,
not a useless project, -
5:26 - 5:29this is an absolute damaging,
a terrible project - -
5:29 - 5:32not to speak about the future
indebtedness of the country -
5:32 - 5:34for these hundreds of millions of dollars,
-
5:34 - 5:37and the siphoning off
-
5:37 - 5:39of the scarce resources of the economy
-
5:39 - 5:42from much more important activities
-
5:42 - 5:45like schools, like hospitals and so on.
-
5:45 - 5:48And yet, we all rejected this project,
-
5:48 - 5:50none of the donors was willing
-
5:50 - 5:52to have their name connected with it,
-
5:52 - 5:55and it was the first
project to be implemented. -
5:55 - 5:58The good projects,
which we as a donor community -
5:58 - 5:59would take under our wings,
-
5:59 - 6:01they took years, you know,
-
6:01 - 6:03you had too many studies,
-
6:03 - 6:05and very often they didn't succeed.
-
6:06 - 6:08But these bad projects,
-
6:08 - 6:10which were absolutely damaging -
for the economy, -
6:10 - 6:13for many generations, for the environment,
-
6:13 - 6:16for thousands of families
who had to be resettled - -
6:16 - 6:18they were suddenly put together
-
6:18 - 6:21by consortia of banks,
-
6:21 - 6:23of supplier agencies,
-
6:23 - 6:25of insurance agencies -
-
6:26 - 6:27like in Germany, Hermes, and so on -
-
6:27 - 6:29and they came back very, very quickly,
-
6:30 - 6:32driven by an unholy alliance
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6:32 - 6:36between the powerful elites
-
6:36 - 6:37in the countries there
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6:37 - 6:40and the suppliers from the North.
-
6:40 - 6:42Now, these suppliers
-
6:42 - 6:43were our big companies.
-
6:44 - 6:46They were the actors
of this global market, -
6:47 - 6:48which I mentioned in the beginning.
-
6:48 - 6:51They were the Siemenses of this world,
-
6:51 - 6:54coming from France,
from the UK, from Japan, -
6:54 - 6:56from Canada, from Germany,
-
6:56 - 6:58and they were systematically driven
-
6:58 - 7:01by systematic, large-scale corruption.
-
7:02 - 7:04We are not talking about
-
7:04 - 7:0650,000 dollars here,
-
7:06 - 7:09or 100,000 dollars there,
or one million dollars there. -
7:09 - 7:12No, we are talking about
10 million, 20 million dollars -
7:12 - 7:14on the Swiss bank accounts,
-
7:14 - 7:16on the bank accounts of Liechtenstein,
-
7:16 - 7:19of the president's ministers,
-
7:19 - 7:22the high officials
in the para-statal sectors. -
7:23 - 7:25This was the reality which I saw,
-
7:25 - 7:27and not only one project like that:
-
7:27 - 7:29I saw, I would say,
-
7:29 - 7:31over the years I worked in Africa,
-
7:31 - 7:33I saw hundreds of projects like this.
-
7:33 - 7:35And so, I became convinced
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7:35 - 7:38that it is this systematic corruption
-
7:38 - 7:42which is perverting economic
policy-making in these countries, -
7:42 - 7:45which is the main reason
-
7:45 - 7:48for the misery, for the poverty,
-
7:48 - 7:50for the conflicts, for the violence,
-
7:50 - 7:52for the desperation
-
7:52 - 7:53in many of these countries.
-
7:54 - 7:56That we have today
-
7:56 - 7:59more than a billion people
below the absolute poverty line, -
7:59 - 8:01that we have more than a billion people
-
8:02 - 8:04without proper drinking water
in the world, -
8:04 - 8:05twice that number,
-
8:05 - 8:08more than two billion people
-
8:08 - 8:09without sanitation and so on,
-
8:10 - 8:12and the consequent illnesses
-
8:12 - 8:14of mothers and children,
-
8:14 - 8:17still, child mortality of more
-
8:18 - 8:20than 10 million people every year,
-
8:20 - 8:22children dying
before they are five years old. -
8:22 - 8:25The cause of this is, to a large extent,
-
8:25 - 8:27grand corruption.
-
8:27 - 8:30Now, why did the World Bank
-
8:30 - 8:32not let me do this work?
-
8:33 - 8:36I found out afterward,
-
8:36 - 8:39after I left, under a big fight,
the World Bank. -
8:39 - 8:42The reason was that the members
of the World Bank -
8:42 - 8:44thought that foreign bribery was okay,
-
8:44 - 8:46including Germany.
-
8:46 - 8:49In Germany, foreign bribery was allowed.
-
8:49 - 8:51It was even tax-deductible.
-
8:51 - 8:54No wonder that most of the most important
-
8:54 - 8:56international operators in Germany,
-
8:56 - 8:58but also in France and the UK
-
8:58 - 9:01and Scandinavia, everywhere,
systematically bribed. -
9:01 - 9:03Not all of them, but most of them.
-
9:03 - 9:06And this is the phenomenon
-
9:06 - 9:09which I call failing governance,
-
9:09 - 9:11because when I then came to Germany
-
9:11 - 9:13and started this little NGO
-
9:13 - 9:16here in Berlin, at the Villa Borsig,
-
9:16 - 9:18we were told,
-
9:18 - 9:22"You cannot stop
our German exporters from bribing, -
9:22 - 9:25because we will lose our contracts.
-
9:25 - 9:27We will lose to the French,
-
9:27 - 9:30we will lose to the Swedes,
we'll lose to the Japanese." -
9:30 - 9:33And therefore, there was indeed
a prisoner's dilemma, -
9:33 - 9:35which made it very difficult
-
9:35 - 9:37for an individual company,
-
9:37 - 9:39an individual exporting country
-
9:39 - 9:44to say, "We are not going
to continue this deadly, disastrous -
9:44 - 9:48habit of large companies to bribe."
-
9:49 - 9:51So this is what I mean
-
9:51 - 9:54with a failing governance structure,
-
9:54 - 9:56because even the powerful government,
-
9:56 - 9:59which we have in Germany, comparatively,
-
9:59 - 10:00was not able to say,
-
10:00 - 10:03"We will not allow our companies
to bribe abroad." -
10:03 - 10:05They needed help,
-
10:06 - 10:08and the large companies themselves
-
10:08 - 10:10have this dilemma.
-
10:10 - 10:12Many of them didn't want to bribe.
-
10:12 - 10:14Many of the German
companies, for instance, -
10:14 - 10:16believe that they are really
-
10:16 - 10:18producing a high-quality product
-
10:18 - 10:21at a good price,
so they are very competitive. -
10:21 - 10:24They are not as good at bribing
-
10:24 - 10:26as many of their international
competitors are, -
10:26 - 10:28but they were not allowed
-
10:28 - 10:30to show their strengths,
-
10:30 - 10:33because the world was eaten up
-
10:33 - 10:35by grand corruption.
-
10:35 - 10:38And this is why I'm telling you this:
-
10:39 - 10:42Civil society rose to the occasion.
-
10:43 - 10:45We had this small NGO,
-
10:45 - 10:47Transparency International.
-
10:47 - 10:49They began to think
-
10:49 - 10:52of an escape route
from this prisoner's dilemma, -
10:52 - 10:56and we developed concepts
-
10:56 - 10:57of collective action,
-
10:57 - 11:00basically trying to bring
various competitors -
11:00 - 11:02together around the table,
-
11:02 - 11:03explaining to all of them
-
11:03 - 11:05how much it would be in their interests
-
11:05 - 11:08if they simultaneously would stop bribing,
-
11:08 - 11:11and to make a long story short,
-
11:11 - 11:12we managed to eventually
-
11:12 - 11:14get Germany to sign
-
11:14 - 11:17together with the other OECD countries
-
11:17 - 11:19and a few other exporters,
-
11:19 - 11:22in 1997, a convention,
-
11:22 - 11:24under the auspices of the OECD,
-
11:24 - 11:26which obliged everybody
-
11:26 - 11:28to change their laws
-
11:28 - 11:30and criminalize foreign bribery.
-
11:30 - 11:34(Applause)
-
11:40 - 11:42Well, thank you. I mean, it's interesting,
-
11:42 - 11:44in doing this,
-
11:44 - 11:46we had to sit together with the companies.
-
11:46 - 11:50We had here in Berlin,
at the Aspen Institute on the Wannsee, -
11:50 - 11:53we had sessions with about
20 captains of industry, -
11:53 - 11:55and we discussed with them
-
11:56 - 11:58what to do about international bribery.
-
11:58 - 12:01In the first session -
we had three sessions -
12:01 - 12:02over the course of two years.
-
12:02 - 12:05And President Von Weizsicker, by the way,
-
12:06 - 12:08chaired one of the sessions,
the first one, -
12:08 - 12:09to take the fear away
-
12:10 - 12:12from the entrepreneurs,
-
12:12 - 12:16who were not used to deal
with non-governmental organizations. -
12:16 - 12:19And in the first session, they all said,
-
12:19 - 12:22"This is not bribery, what we are doing.
This is customary there. -
12:22 - 12:25This is what these other cultures demand.
-
12:25 - 12:27They even applaud it."
-
12:27 - 12:29In fact, Martin Walzer,
-
12:29 - 12:31still says this today.
-
12:31 - 12:33And so there are still a lot of people
-
12:33 - 12:36who are not convinced
that you have to stop bribing. -
12:36 - 12:38But in the second session,
-
12:38 - 12:40they admitted already
that they would never do this, -
12:40 - 12:43what they are doing
in these other countries, -
12:43 - 12:46here in Germany,
or in the U.K., and so on. -
12:46 - 12:48Cabinet ministers would admit this.
-
12:48 - 12:51And in the final session,
at the Aspen Institute, -
12:51 - 12:54we had them all sign an open letter
-
12:54 - 12:56to the Kohl government, at the time,
-
12:56 - 13:00requesting that they participate
in the OECD convention. -
13:00 - 13:03And this is, in my opinion,
-
13:03 - 13:05an example of soft power,
-
13:05 - 13:07because we were able to convince them
-
13:07 - 13:09that they had to go with us.
-
13:09 - 13:12We had a longer-term time perspective.
-
13:12 - 13:15We had a broader,
geographically much wider, -
13:16 - 13:18constituency we were trying to defend.
-
13:18 - 13:20And that's why the law has changed.
-
13:20 - 13:23That's why Siemens is now
in the trouble they are in -
13:23 - 13:26and that's why MIN
is in the trouble they are in. -
13:26 - 13:29In some other countries,
the OECD convention -
13:29 - 13:31is not yet properly enforced.
-
13:32 - 13:33And, again, civil societies
-
13:34 - 13:36breathing down the neck
of the establishment. -
13:36 - 13:38In London, for instance,
-
13:38 - 13:40where the BAE got away
-
13:40 - 13:41with a huge corruption case,
-
13:41 - 13:45which the Serious Fraud Office
tried to prosecute, -
13:46 - 13:48100 million British pounds,
-
13:48 - 13:50every year for ten years,
-
13:50 - 13:53to one particular official
of one particular friendly country, -
13:53 - 13:58who then bought for 44 billion pounds
of military equipment. -
13:59 - 14:01This case, they are not
prosecuting in the UK. -
14:01 - 14:03Why? Because they consider this
-
14:03 - 14:06as contrary to the security interest
-
14:06 - 14:07of the people of Great Britain.
-
14:07 - 14:10Civil society is pushing, civil society
-
14:10 - 14:13is trying to get a solution
to this problem, -
14:13 - 14:15also in the U.K.,
-
14:15 - 14:17and also in Japan,
which is not properly enforcing, -
14:17 - 14:19and so on.
-
14:19 - 14:20In Germany, we are pushing
-
14:20 - 14:22the ratification of the UN convention,
-
14:23 - 14:25which is a subsequent convention.
-
14:25 - 14:27We are, Germany, is not ratifying.
-
14:27 - 14:30Why? Because it would make it necessary
-
14:30 - 14:34to criminalize the corruption of deputies.
-
14:35 - 14:37In Germany, we have a system where
-
14:37 - 14:40you are not allowed
to bribe a civil servant, -
14:40 - 14:43but you are allowed to bribe a deputy.
-
14:43 - 14:46This is, under German law, allowed,
-
14:46 - 14:48and the members of our parliament
don't want to change this, -
14:48 - 14:50and this is why they can't sign
-
14:50 - 14:53the U.N. convention
against foreign bribery - -
14:53 - 14:55one of they very, very few countries
-
14:55 - 14:58which is preaching honesty and good
governance everywhere in the world, -
14:58 - 15:01but not able to ratify the convention,
-
15:01 - 15:03which we managed to get on the books
-
15:03 - 15:06with about 160 countries
all over the world. -
15:06 - 15:08I see my time is ticking.
-
15:08 - 15:10Let me just try
-
15:10 - 15:13to draw some conclusions
from what has happened. -
15:13 - 15:17I believe that what we managed to achieve
-
15:18 - 15:20in fighting corruption,
-
15:20 - 15:22one can also achieve
-
15:22 - 15:24in other areas of failing governance.
-
15:24 - 15:26By now, the United Nations
-
15:26 - 15:28is totally on our side.
-
15:28 - 15:31The World Bank has turned
from Saulus to Paulus; -
15:31 - 15:34under Wolfensohn, they became,
I would say, -
15:34 - 15:36the strongest anti-corruption agency
in the world. -
15:37 - 15:39Most of the large companies
-
15:39 - 15:41are now totally convinced
-
15:41 - 15:43that they have to put in place
-
15:43 - 15:45very strong policies
-
15:47 - 15:49against bribery and so on.
-
15:50 - 15:53And this is possible because civil society
-
15:53 - 15:55joined the companies
-
15:55 - 15:57and joined the government
-
15:57 - 15:59in the analysis of the problem,
-
15:59 - 16:01in the development of remedies,
-
16:01 - 16:04in the implementation of reforms,
-
16:04 - 16:07and then later,
in the monitoring of reforms. -
16:07 - 16:10Of course, if civil society organizations
-
16:10 - 16:11want to play that role,
-
16:11 - 16:15they have to grow
into this responsibility. -
16:15 - 16:19Not all civil society
organizations are good. -
16:19 - 16:22The Ku Klux Klan is an NGO.
-
16:22 - 16:24So, we must be aware
-
16:24 - 16:26that civil society
-
16:26 - 16:28has to shape up itself.
-
16:28 - 16:30They have to have a much more
-
16:30 - 16:32transparent financial governance.
-
16:32 - 16:35They have to have a much more
participatory governance -
16:35 - 16:38in many civil society organizations.
-
16:38 - 16:41We also need much more competence
of civil society leaders. -
16:41 - 16:44This is why we have set up
the governance school -
16:44 - 16:46and the Center for Civil Society
here in Berlin, -
16:46 - 16:49because we believe most of our educational
-
16:49 - 16:52and research institutions in Germany
-
16:52 - 16:54and continental Europe in general,
-
16:54 - 16:55do not focus enough, yet,
-
16:55 - 16:57on empowering civil society
-
16:57 - 16:59and training the leadership
of civil society. -
17:00 - 17:03But what I'm saying from my very
practical experience: -
17:04 - 17:07If civil society does it right
-
17:07 - 17:09and joins the other actors -
-
17:09 - 17:11in particular, governance,
-
17:11 - 17:14governments and their international
institutions, -
17:14 - 17:17but also large international actors,
-
17:17 - 17:19in particular those which have
committed themselves -
17:19 - 17:21to corporate social responsibility -
-
17:21 - 17:24then in this magical triangle
-
17:24 - 17:26between civil society,
-
17:26 - 17:28government and private sector,
-
17:28 - 17:30there is a tremendous chance
-
17:30 - 17:33for all of us to create a better world.
-
17:34 - 17:35Thank you.
-
17:35 - 17:37(Applause)
- Title:
- How to expose the corrupt | Peter Eigen | TEDxBerlin
- Description:
-
Some of the world's most baffling social problems, says Peter Eigen, can be traced to systematic, pervasive government corruption, hand-in-glove with global companies. In this talk, Eigen describes the thrilling counter-attack led by his organization Transparency International.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDxTalks
- Duration:
- 17:40
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