Drinking, Spending & Eating [CC English & Español] | Kati Morton

(gentle music)

- [Man] And you're rolling.

- Okay.

Hey everybody.

I'm joined by wonderful Elle Mills again.

Last time, if you didn't know,

we already did a collaboration.

I'm sure that'll come out first.

I assume.
- Yes.

- And I, after we talked,

I thought about all the stuff

that we had discussed

kind of like, I don't know,

on a surface level

and so I texted Elle

and I was like hey, could
we talk more about that?

And she was so nice.

And she was like yeah.

It was actually in the video

that we did on your channel

and I'll link that in the description

if you wanna see what I'm talking about.

But we barely, I guess,

discussed toggling between

different coping skills

and how you were curious

if that's like normal or not, right?

Do you remember that question?
- Yes.

Yeah, and so to recap

would you wanna tell my audience

a little bit about the different

coping skills we were talking about?

- Yeah, so there's like,

for me like eating, overeating

or not eating at all.

And then spending.

So overspending and then,

actually just overspending.

(laughing)

That's it.

And then drinking.

Like going out and partying a lot.

- Yeah.

And I've talked to you guys a lot

about how we switch them.

That's why I'm calling them coping skills

is because it's not like a,

it's not like a mental illness.

It's just part of feeling overwhelmed

and trying to find a way

to feel better about it.

You know what I mean?
- Yeah.

And so, do you notice

which one comes first?

Is there a certain order

or is it just all willy-nilly?

There's no right or wrong answer.

- Yeah, no, I'm trying to think.

It goes through waves I think.

But I'd say drinking, maybe.

Probably be the one, first one.

- Yeah.
- Yeah.

- 'Cause even coming to LA,

you'd said that's the one thing

you're allowing yourself to do

is just be like woo!

- Yeah.

- Do you think that's a bad sign

or is it like doing it here
in this capacity is healthy?

- It's a mixture or like,

there's a lot of social stuff

like parties and stuff
that I get invited to.

So I'm like okay I'm gonna go

and I let myself drink.

But I think it is,

like I find myself more
willing to drink here

than I am back home

because when I'm home I'm more relaxed

and I'm like oh I don't
really wanna feel drunk.

- Yeah, interesting.

- But here, I'm like,

after a long day I'm like,

I just go fuck it, I wanna go get drunk.

- Yeah.
- Yeah.

- I mean, I can even understand
like after a long day

and like being on.

If you guys don't know
what I'm talking about,

when we're around other people,

especially if I don't know anybody,

I'm like, I don't want anybody to go back

and be like Kati was such a bitch.

Like oh my God, I hate that person.

When I might've just
been totally maxed out.

So I'm always like trying
to be extra friendly

and that's actually exhausting

which I know sounds weird.

Does anybody else relate?

I get super tired.

And so sometimes having a drink

at the end of the day is
like (sighs), you know?

But yours is like I'm gonna get drunk?

- Yeah, mine's always extreme.

I very rarely, or ever,

drink just like one drink.

If I'm drinking

I'm drinking to get drunk.
- You're drinking.

Yeah that's why I said
like allow myself to.

You're like I'm gonna go for it.

Does it make you feel better?

- It makes me

distracted.

Forget.

For that, yeah.

It makes me not care I think.

- Yeah, 'cause the
inhibitions are gone, right?

- Yes.

- Do you find,

'cause something that I learned,

and maybe it's because I'm older.

So, prepare yourself for this

because your body definitely feels

a hangover more when you get older.

But do you find you have a mental hangover

at all from it?

Like do you wake up the next day

and be like (groans) what was I doing?

- Sometimes yes.

Yeah, for sure I do, yeah.

- 'Cause that's why I wonder

because I know from what
my viewers have told me,

and even like my own experience,

that coping skill works for that period.

- Yeah, it does.

I don't know, for me like

it's just sometimes like

my brain's just going so much.

I just like, anything to
stop it at that point.

- Yeah.
- Yeah.

- Have you tried any other
distraction techniques?

- Examples?
- I'm therapizing you now.

(laughs)
- Yeah I know, I know.

- Calling a friend?

Like I know you FaceTime and chat.

- Yeah I know

but then I get a fear
of like being a burden

and like, I feel like because,

especially what I went
through a few months ago,

which is, I went through
like a huge breakdown,

the friends I used,

I feel like I've overused them almost.

Like I feel like they're
kind of exhausted too.

As exhausted as I am, I can only imagine.

- Have they told you that?

- One, well at the time

there was like we needed a bit of a break.

- Yeah, which is fair.

I've even had that happen.

I had a really shitty time.

Kind of, not for the same reason,

but a similar thing

where I just wasn't myself

and I'm like what's going on,

why am I so unhappy?

And one of my closest friends

was like you're really hard
to be around right now.

And I was like trust me I know.

I feel it.

I don't wanna be around me.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- So are there other things

that help you cope

like listening to music,

going for walks?

If it's not talk,

you don't wanna be too much of a burden,

are there other things?

Do you doodle or journal or?

- No.

I mean I've tried maybe like,

I do hang out with friends
without the drinking.

Maybe like let's go out to
see a movie, let's go out.

I try to make sure I'm not alone.

That's what I do.

- Okay, that's good.

- I've been doing that a lot

where I just kind of go

from one place to the next

to the next to the next

so that I don't have time to overthink

or think by myself.

- No, that's a good idea.

I don't think that's bad at all.

- But then it drains me is the problem.

- And then you're on.

- It's just like.

- Have you tried like,

and now I don't know

if you're even into this stuff,

but like the Calm app or Headspace--

- Oh my God!

Hazel, you know who Hazel Hayes is?

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- She told me to download it.

Yeah, so I do have it.

I tried it for a little bit.

- Okay, did you like it or were you like?

- Yeah I did but like I feel
like my mind's still racing.

I don't know, maybe I just need

to do it more to get used to it, but yeah.

- It takes me a little while.

Like I have tried Headspace.

I recently downloaded the Calm app

but I haven't tried it yet.

But it takes me like three
or four times of doing it

and I have to do it
regular, like everyday,

before I'm able to
actually not think about,

I mean, it's not that
you don't have thoughts.

It's that I'm able to slow them down

and not have that like,

you know how it builds up?

Like it feels like you're spiraling?

Yeah, so maybe that.

- Yeah for sure.

- That can maybe help.

Okay so drinking's
usually the first thing.

What's usually the second after that?

And how long do these little bouts last?

- The drinking?

- Yeah, like each coping skills.

Is it a couple nights

or is it like a week or two weeks?

- Two weeks.

And then I go what am I doing?

And then I go back to doing,

I think every two weeks
it's a cycle kind of thing.

- Oh okay.

- It varies if how much
work I'm doing that month.

- So if you're extra busy will it last--

- Longer, yeah.
- Longer.

- I'd say eating.

Yeah.
- Is the next thing?

- Eating's the next thing.

It's either one extreme
to the other extreme.

- Has that always been something
that you've struggled with?

- No.
- No?

When did it, was it around
like the burnout situation or?

- Yeah.

That's when it got...

Well I had experienced something slightly,

like an eating thing,

like end of high school

when I was very stressed
and all that stuff.

But then it stopped

and then it came back again,

I'd say, yeah, this year.

- Yeah.

Is there anything that
gets you out of that funk

or it always runs its full course?

- I haven't figured it out yet.

- Yeah.
- Yeah.

- And I mean the good news,

like from an outside perspective,

is that we know what's causing it.

- Yeah.

- It's like, it's essentially
a lack of self-care.

That's what burnout really is, I think.

And like the talk I gave at PatreCon

was like the burnout occurs

when the reward isn't more
than the effort that we put in.

And so you're putting
in a shit ton of effort

and the rewards is still great

but it stays like the same.

- Yeah.

- And so as far as the eating stuff,

what snapped you out of that?

- It's more like the,

what's it called?

The want for, like to eat?

- Yeah like your appetite?

- My appetite.

Like just the desire to like,

it just becomes too much

and then I binge.

- Okay.

- And then I get to a point

where I go why did I do that to myself?

- Then you feel guilty for that.

- And then I go back.
- And then back to the other.

- Yes.

- Yeah, which I think is very normal.

I'm sure a lot of you can relate to that.

It's like eating disorders

a lot of people think are just one thing.

But it's not.

It's like adaptive.

And depending on what we need

it like toggles back and forth.

Have you talked to your friends

about that at all?

- Only like two.

And yeah.

I don't know.

I've been trying.

It's like, I was good
like two weeks before,

when I was doing absolutely nothing.

When I was doing absolutely nothing

I was so good.

It was just like eating healthy

and slashed going to the gym

and like I was able to like--

- I remember you did a video

about how you're doing now.

- Yeah.

- And you were like I've
been doing good really

and I was going to the gym.

I hadn't been going to the gym at all.

Yeah.

- And then work started happening.

And it's just, yeah.

- Do you feel like it's

if you're working there's no way

to not work so much

that these things don't happen?

- I don't know.

Because I think it's just
always something I've been,

I've had a problem with
even in high school.

Like I overwork myself.

And I don't know why.

I think I'm just maybe a perfectionist.

Like I always try to
make it, raise the bar.

Like with school projects.

Stuff that should only take an hour

I spent like a week on

because I wanted to make it--

- To perfect.
- Yeah.

- Yeah.

Yeah and I mean you were
really successful in school.

I learned that about you in your talk.

- Yes!

- I was like wow, you like kicked ass.

So, do you think it's
a perfectionist thing

or do you think it has
to do with the value?

Like do you place value,

does it make you feel more valuable?

- Yeah, actually yeah.

- If you're doing better?

- Yeah.

- How's your Mom?

I know you're closest to her right?

- Yeah.

- Has she always placed a
large emphasis on success or?

I'm just curious where
it came from I guess.

- Yeah, I think so.

Yeah my dad and my mom.

- Yeah.
- Yeah.

But I'm thinking that
the other kids don't--

- Yeah.
- You know what I mean?

My brothers are just
like, don't give a shit.

- Same with my brother

and I'm more like you are.

I'm like type A and have to do

everything to 100%

or I'm not doing, might as well

not do it at all kinda thing.

But it'd be interesting

for that aspect of it,

do you ever do any kind of

positive self-talk?

I know that sounds so cheesy

but positive self-talk stuff?

Like writing down three things

that you're grateful for

or that you like about yourself?

- During the breakdown, did it for a bit.

- Did it help?

- Well, yeah it did.

(laughing)

So, I wish I could do that, yes.

- Maybe just give it a try.

'Cause it's hard.

I know it's like daily.

But if it's one of your to-dos,

we can use your type A personality

to our advantage.

- Yes, we should, yes.
(laughs)

- So, okay so we usually it's the alcohol

then it's eating

and then finally it's shopping then?

- Yeah overspend, yeah.

- Yeah.

- Well, shopping, it's for me,

it's just like being
reckless and careless.

Being like whatever, fuck it.

I'll pay this, this, this,
this and just spending--

- For no reason really.
- Yeah.

- It's not like you go
out on a shopping spree.

Or do you?
- No.

- 'Cause no judgment,
everybody's different.

- No, no, I just don't.

Yeah, I just like, if I need,

like buying a new lens

when I don't need a new lens.

You know what I mean?

Like I guess just like spending

and then going for videos.

Like spending money on stuff

that I could budget better

and I could've found resources.

I'm like no, fuck it.

Instead of going to look for someone

who has this thing I'm gonna go buy it.

- Yeah, I'll just do this.
- Yeah, exactly.

- 'Cause I can.
- Yeah.

It's usually when I'm stressed.

I'm just like whatever,
I'm gonna spend it.

I'll deal with the problem later

is what I was going for.

- Yeah and I think sometimes,

at least I know from research

and then personal experience,

so research shows that shopping

does trigger our reward
center in our brain.

So we're like oh, feels good.

We're like, nice!

But it's like a short lived thing.

So like it's a little bit of dopamine,

which is what makes us feel good,

and then it goes away.

- Yeah.

- And then like, it could be 30 minutes,

it could be a couple hours,

but it's usually not more than a day.

And then I know from
personal experience then

that I do feel that rush
of it when I overspend

and then immediately it's like

in order to continue keeping,

I don't know if you feel this way,

but to keep it at that rush

I have to keep spending
and spending and spending.

Which I luckily haven't done.

Been able to keep myself under control.

But when I'm really stressed I'm like,

I'm gonna buy a, something
for camera equipment,

I'm gonna buy a pair a pants I don't need.

I need this shirt
because I'm filming this.

Like stupid shit I don't,
or like I don't know.

I'm all about face masks.

So I'm gonna buy a face mask.

Even though it's $50,
I don't really need it.

Yeah.

So have you ever,

is it just usually a one time thing

or do you do it for another two weeks?

- Usually if I'm like in
video mode, which is like--

- Always. (laughs)
- Yes.

But like when it's like a video

that needs to be done,

that's when it's at its worst.

- Okay, like in that little crunch time.

- Yes.

- Like maybe when you're
editing or filming

or like in the process?

- Yeah, so like a week maybe

of just really bad spending.

- So it sounds like this kind of

runs over the course of six weeks.

Then does it start again?

Or do you have periods?

Like if you're not working

then you're able to
like not do any of them?

- Yeah.

- But then if you get back in

then does it kinda start again?

- Right away, yeah.

- Has there been anything

that's stopped it completely

like in the midst of it

or shortened the timeframe?

- When I've done videos.

Which sucks.

It sounds so, yes.
- It's such a clear trigger.

- Yeah it sounds bad but it's,

once I finished,

I'm like, I'm like whoa.

And I kinda zone back

and I'm like I don't
need a drink that much.

Or like, or even gets to the point

to where I'm like I've over drank too much

and my body's just drained and exhausted

and I'm like okay I physically
cannot do this anymore.

So it's either one of the two.

One where I'm able to like,
I'm not stressed anymore

and I go whoa.

Or I'm like literally can't do it anymore.

- Yeah so it's either your body tells you

or you're finally not stressed.

- Yeah.

- Wow.

What do you think it is about the videos

that makes it so?

- I, no clue.

I wish I, this would solve
a lot of my problems.

- Yeah, 'cause I'm like
what is it about it?

'Cause I know from my research
on burnout as a whole,

that online creators are
more susceptible to it

because the reward always changes.

Whether it's something more that we need.

Like I need more fulfillment,

I need to know I'm helping more people

or I need to know it reaches more people

or I need more monetary reward,

whatever it is.

I don't know if you feel that

like it changes what you're
wanting to get out of it.

- I don't know.

I feel like maybe it's
like I need success.

Like I need that validation

and like if I don't post
a really great video

then that starts, I start to lose that.

And then I'm afraid I will
lose all the success I have.

Like I don't know, I think it's that.

- Yeah and that makes sense though.

And especially because like

we can actually watch it in real time.

Which sucks 'cause then you can see--

- You see the numbers.

- And everybody can see them.

So you're like.
- Exactly.

- Yeah.
- Exactly.

That makes it a lot worse.

I feel like if I was the only one

to see the numbers then
I wouldn't feel that bad.

But knowing that everyone else can see

if I'm doing well or not.

- Yeah and you were like shot
out of a cannon onto YouTube.

Like it's not like you had

that slow burn, like myself. (laughs)

Where you just like,

I'm doing my thing

and only so many people
are watching, that's fine.

And then you're growing little.

You were like woo!

- Yeah.

- So, yeah, how do you...

'Cause then essentially,

like how do you keep that trajectory?

You can't.
- You can't.

It will eventually slow down

and realizing that's
just been really hard.

- Yeah, of course.

Especially if we like place
our own personal value in it.

Which it sounds like,

I mean we all do, let's be honest.

What we do whether or
not we want to admit it,

becomes a part of who we are.

- But I definitely put my value into that.

- Yeah.

So maybe finding other ways

to get value for yourself

would be the best.

I know that's a hard thing.

It's not like oh, let's fix it today.

- Yeah, yeah.

- But I wonder if there are

other things that you can find value in.

Like obviously your relationships is one.

- Yes.

- Are there other things

that you enjoy doing

that you feel good about when you do?

- I just, I guess like
hanging out with friends

'cause it used to be videos.

Well I mean, I still enjoy making videos.

(laughing)

But you know what I mean like--

- Let's not get twisted.

- Yeah, there's an added
pressure to that, like.

- Yeah.
- Yeah.

- Yeah.
- So, just like friends

and family I guess.

- Yeah and find--
- Maybe I should find a hobby.

- That's what I was just thinking.

Like try new hobbies, try things.

Like Sean and I go
snowboarding in the winter.

You're welcome to join us anytime.

- Yes, that'd be cool!

- Whatever sounds fun to you, you know?

'Cause maybe that's like the answer.

Even though it's not easy.

But do do the self-talk stuff.

I think that will help.

- Yes.

- But yeah, thanks for sharing your story.

- Oh no worries.

- I don't expect there
to be any real answers.

Nobody really has answers

but you're here and you're doing better.

- Yes.

- And you know, I think
that's always positive.

- For sure.

- She has a great story to share you guys.

If you haven't watched,

I know the burnout video is like intense,

but just learning about her.

Checking out her channel,

watching her process

and her progress in life.

Like the one, I forget,
probably two months ago

about like how you're doing now.

- Oh, the aftermath of
my YouTube breakdown.

- Yes, and I think that one's

really good and really empowering.

So I'll link that in the description.

And I just heard you give
an amazing speech on burnout

and it was at PatreCon because
she has a Patreon page.

And I will link to that video

because I thought the
speech was just amazing.

- Oh, thank you.

- It was really good.
- Yes.

- And so you can check that out.

It really gives more context

to kind of what we're talking about.

Because the videos on
your channel are amazing

but this gives like the whole version

instead of an abridged version.

So check that out.

Check out her Patreon page.

And thanks for sharing.

- No worries.

- And we'll see you next time.

- Bye.
- Bye.

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