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Second question: David Hopkins
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"Where do you draw the line between
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one who is a Christian,
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but all their things are burnt up
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at the Judgment Seat,
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and one who is living in sin
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and who is not a true believer?
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David Hopkins is referring, of course,
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to 1 Corinthians 3:10 and following.
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Let me read them to you.
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"According to the grace
of God given to me..."
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This is Paul speaking.
"...like a skilled master builder,
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I laid a foundation.
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Someone else is building upon it.
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Let each one take care
how he builds upon it,
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for no one can lay a
foundation other than
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that which was laid,
which is Jesus Christ.
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Now if anyone builds
on the foundation
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with gold, silver,
precious stones,
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wood, hay, straw;
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each one's work will become manifest.
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For the day will disclose it.
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Because it will be revealed by fire
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and the fire will test what sort of work
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each one has done.
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If the work that anyone has built
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on the foundation survives,
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he will receive a reward.
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If anyone's work is burned up,
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he will suffer loss,
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though he himself will be saved,
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but only as through fire."
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Now, David Hopkins asks this question:
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Ok, if you've got these people
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who are not building
with the right materials
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and not building on the right foundation,
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it seems like,
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fire is going to come,
it's going to test it,
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if their work is burned up,
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this person's going to suffer loss,
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though he himself will be saved,
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but only as through fire.
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So, what David is asking,
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if you've got a person who goes to
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the Judgment Seat of God in the end,
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and everything gets burned up,
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how is that different from a lost person
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who shows up at Judgment Day
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and has no good works?
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Because clearly a lost person,
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what's true of the lost?
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There's none good.
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They're children of wrath.
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There's none that seeks God.
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Right?
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There's none righteous,
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and there's none that does good.
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And so, if a lost guy gets there
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and he's got nothing to offer,
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how is that any different
than the guy over here
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who's a Christian and he's
got nothing to offer?
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What do you think?
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(from the room) First of all
I don't think everything is going
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to be burned up.
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This is basically creating a straw man.
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Do you know what a straw man is?
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A straw man is basically a man
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that you can construct,
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and then knock him down.
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You basically create a situation that
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really isn't real.
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And that's basically
what we've got here.
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Listen to me.
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David is the one asking the question.
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What we don't want to do
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is decontextualize 1 Corinthians 3.
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What do I mean by that?
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Well, we don't want to forget
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what the context is.
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What is the context?
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What in the world's Paul talking about?
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What David is assuming is that
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this has to do with all Christians
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coming before the Judgment Seat
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and having all their works examined
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and potentially burned up.
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That cannot happen, folks.
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That cannot happen.
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And I will show you verses
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that absolutely show that cannot happen.
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What David is doing is
he's taking this text
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and he's forgetting the context.
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He's forgetting what
it is that's actually
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being spoken about here.
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Do you remember what was happening
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there at Corinth?
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Paul's concern is this:
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There are leaders at Corinth,
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are there not?
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There are leaders at the church there.
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Do you remember what was
happening at the church?
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You had schism.
You had division.
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And how were they dividing?
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In fact, Paul goes
right into this chapter
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saying look,
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you've got Apollos, you've got me,
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you've got some watering,
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you've got some planting,
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and he says, you know what?
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God's the One in the midst of all this
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that's doing this.
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God is the One that gives the increase
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in all this.
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And you guys are totally wrong.
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You know what?
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Men are nothing in this.
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Men are nothing.
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But bottom line is,
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men's works in this ministry
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are going to be weighed out.
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What are they building with?
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And you know what he's talking about?
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He's talking about the church.
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He's talking about the
foundation that was laid.
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There's only one
foundation for the church.
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It is Jesus Christ.
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And we have to build the church
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with the proper building materials,
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which is what?
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Not wood, hay, and stubble.
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That's the stuff that gets burned up.
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We need to build
with precious stones,
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with gold, with silver...
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the whole situation here revolves around
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what we're building the church with.
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What this edifice looks like.
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And here's the thing,
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were the men leading Corinth
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building with good materials?
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Were they?
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Let me tell you something.
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1 Corinthians 5
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You know what we
find the leaders
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were not doing?
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They were not disciplining sin.
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They were allowing sin there.
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That's some wood, hay, stubble
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that's going on in the church.
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I'll tell you something else.
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I'll guarantee you, it was even
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in the leadership there,
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that they were saying,
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well, we're after Cephas,
we're after Apollos,
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we follow Paul, we're the Christ bunch.
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You don't think that was also
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infecting the leadership there?
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I'll guarantee you it was.
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It wasn't just down at
the bottom of the ranks.
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It was cutting through the whole thing.
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And that's why he's
saying what he is here.
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You know what they were doing?
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They were making much out of men.
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Rather than making
much out of Jesus Christ.
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And he's saying, when it
comes to your ministry,
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if you're in the ministry,
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if you're involved in the
building of this church,
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he's sending a warning.
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You guys are building
with wrong materials.
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Remember, Paul doesn't just
come out of the blue
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when he talks about things.
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He speaks based on the errors,
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based on the problems,
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based on the weaknesses,
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based on the sin that
was evident right there.
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You can believe it.
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He's saying this because
there were leaders
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in that church that were not building
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with the proper building materials.
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And so what we don't want to do
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is make this an overall
evaluation for all Christians.
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And you know what?
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I don't believe at the same time,
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that if you ask Paul,
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Paul, do you really believe
that a God-called man
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in the leadership of the church
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is going to get to the end
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and every single thing is
going to be burned up?
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I think what you have here
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is a severe warning that's meant to throw
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and cast fear upon those men who are
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in those leadership positions.
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And his understanding is
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that when he wrote inspired
letters to God's people
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who were erring,
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that the Spirit of God
would take that word
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and correct the people.
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And when you get to 2 Corinthians,
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you see correction
was definitely taking place.
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So I really don't believe
that if you ask Paul,
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do you really believe that there
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are going to be people there
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that are God-called men,
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God-gifted men that are going to have
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absolutely everything incinerated.
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I think he would say, no,
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by the grace of God, there won't
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absolutely be people in that situation.
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But I'll guarantee what he's teaching
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is that you can build in certain ways,
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and that these
Corinthians had been
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building in certain
ways that it was
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going to get burned up.
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It was no good.
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There were a lot of
things happening there.
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They were putting a lot of emphasis
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on spiritual gifts in a
way that he had to correct.
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There were so many errors there.
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Things he had to deal with.
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When he says that they were acting carnal,
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I believe that he was
talking from the very top
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all the way down.
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They were building
with carnal materials,
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they were building
with wood, hay, and stubble.
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They weren't really
laying Christ out
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as the foundation.
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They were putting emphasis on things
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where emphasis was not at all proper.
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Emphasis on gifts,
emphasis on certain men.
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They were allowing sin to go unchecked.
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There certainly wasn't
an emphasis on purity.
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When you're letting a
man continue in the church
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living with his father's wife.
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You've got people in the church
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suing one another.
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The rich people coming together
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and not waiting for the poor
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in the Lord's Supper.
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They're not building on foundations
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of love and humility and graciousness
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and Christ-likeness.
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They're not building with Christ.
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Remember what Christ said,
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many are going to say to Him that day,
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Lord, Lord...
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And what's He say?
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It's not everybody that
says to me, "Lord, Lord."
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Isn't it amazing how often
we come back to this text.
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He said, it's not everybody that says,
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"Lord, Lord," that inherits
the Kingdom of Heaven;
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it's those that do the will of the Father.
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Now look, I guarantee you this,
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nobody's over here inheriting
the Kingdom of Heaven
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who didn't live a life that was consistent
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with doing the will of the Father.
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Right?
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And so, there is no pastor,
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truly God-called and truly God-saved,
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that's going to get
to the end of his life,
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and he's going to come there
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and the fire's going to hit him
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and nothing in his life is going to be
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according to the will of the Father.
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That's an impossibility, right?
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Clearly impossible.
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John 15:16
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"You did not choose Me, but I chose you.
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And appointed you that
you should go and bear fruit,
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and that your fruit should abide."
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You know what?
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Jesus chooses people.
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He's got a certain people for
His own personal possession
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to be zealous of good works.
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We are His workmanship.
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How many of you know Ephesians 2:10?
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Who can quote it?
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"...God prepared beforehand
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that we should walk in them."
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Is that not what it says?
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Does the Scripture not say
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that God has specific
works, specific fruit
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for the life of every one of His children,
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and He's prepared them beforehand that
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you would walk in them.
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Does He not say that?
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And so there's nobody
that's going to get there
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that's going to be truly saved
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that did not have works
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that were appointed to them
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that God's going to
make absolutely certain
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that they carry out.
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Listen to this.
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John 15:18
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"By this My Father is glorified,
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that you bear much fruit,
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and so prove to be My disciples."
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So, if you don't bear much fruit,
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then what?
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You don't prove to be His disciple.
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How do you prove to be His disciple?
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By bearing much fruit.
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I guarantee you this,
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there's going to be nobody there
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that didn't bear fruit.
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Do you believe that?
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So basically, what happens with
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1 Corinthians 3 passage
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is that people take it out of context.
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Saved so as by fire.
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And they immediately see
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this pathetic Christian come there
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and gets hit by this fire.
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And he's totally incinerated.
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It's all gone.
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But that just simply conflicts
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with so many other texts
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in the Scriptures.
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So many others.
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And so 1 Corinthians 3 read in context
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is definitely dealing with men
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who are building the church.
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And I think it needs to
be taken in that context.