What does it mean to "be saved, but only as through fire?"

Second question: David Hopkins

"Where do you draw the line between

one who is a Christian,

but all their things are burnt up

at the Judgment Seat,

and one who is living in sin

and who is not a true believer?

David Hopkins is referring, of course,

to 1 Corinthians 3:10 and following.

Let me read them to you.

"According to the grace
of God given to me..."

This is Paul speaking.
"...like a skilled master builder,

I laid a foundation.

Someone else is building upon it.

Let each one take care
how he builds upon it,

for no one can lay a
foundation other than

that which was laid,
which is Jesus Christ.

Now if anyone builds
on the foundation

with gold, silver,
precious stones,

wood, hay, straw;

each one's work will become manifest.

For the day will disclose it.

Because it will be revealed by fire

and the fire will test what sort of work

each one has done.

If the work that anyone has built

on the foundation survives,

he will receive a reward.

If anyone's work is burned up,

he will suffer loss,

though he himself will be saved,

but only as through fire."

Now, David Hopkins asks this question:

Ok, if you've got these people

who are not building
with the right materials

and not building on the right foundation,

it seems like,

fire is going to come,
it's going to test it,

if their work is burned up,

this person's going to suffer loss,

though he himself will be saved,

but only as through fire.

So, what David is asking,

if you've got a person who goes to

the Judgment Seat of God in the end,

and everything gets burned up,

how is that different from a lost person

who shows up at Judgment Day

and has no good works?

Because clearly a lost person,

what's true of the lost?

There's none good.

They're children of wrath.

There's none that seeks God.

Right?

There's none righteous,

and there's none that does good.

And so, if a lost guy gets there

and he's got nothing to offer,

how is that any different
than the guy over here

who's a Christian and he's
got nothing to offer?

What do you think?

(from the room) First of all
I don't think everything is going

to be burned up.

This is basically creating a straw man.

Do you know what a straw man is?

A straw man is basically a man

that you can construct,

and then knock him down.

You basically create a situation that

really isn't real.

And that's basically
what we've got here.

Listen to me.

David is the one asking the question.

What we don't want to do

is decontextualize 1 Corinthians 3.

What do I mean by that?

Well, we don't want to forget

what the context is.

What is the context?

What in the world's Paul talking about?

What David is assuming is that

this has to do with all Christians

coming before the Judgment Seat

and having all their works examined

and potentially burned up.

That cannot happen, folks.

That cannot happen.

And I will show you verses

that absolutely show that cannot happen.

What David is doing is
he's taking this text

and he's forgetting the context.

He's forgetting what
it is that's actually

being spoken about here.

Do you remember what was happening

there at Corinth?

Paul's concern is this:

There are leaders at Corinth,

are there not?

There are leaders at the church there.

Do you remember what was
happening at the church?

You had schism.
You had division.

And how were they dividing?

In fact, Paul goes
right into this chapter

saying look,

you've got Apollos, you've got me,

you've got some watering,

you've got some planting,

and he says, you know what?

God's the One in the midst of all this

that's doing this.

God is the One that gives the increase

in all this.

And you guys are totally wrong.

You know what?

Men are nothing in this.

Men are nothing.

But bottom line is,

men's works in this ministry

are going to be weighed out.

What are they building with?

And you know what he's talking about?

He's talking about the church.

He's talking about the
foundation that was laid.

There's only one
foundation for the church.

It is Jesus Christ.

And we have to build the church

with the proper building materials,

which is what?

Not wood, hay, and stubble.

That's the stuff that gets burned up.

We need to build
with precious stones,

with gold, with silver...

the whole situation here revolves around

what we're building the church with.

What this edifice looks like.

And here's the thing,

were the men leading Corinth

building with good materials?

Were they?

Let me tell you something.

1 Corinthians 5

You know what we
find the leaders

were not doing?

They were not disciplining sin.

They were allowing sin there.

That's some wood, hay, stubble

that's going on in the church.

I'll tell you something else.

I'll guarantee you, it was even

in the leadership there,

that they were saying,

well, we're after Cephas,
we're after Apollos,

we follow Paul, we're the Christ bunch.

You don't think that was also

infecting the leadership there?

I'll guarantee you it was.

It wasn't just down at
the bottom of the ranks.

It was cutting through the whole thing.

And that's why he's
saying what he is here.

You know what they were doing?

They were making much out of men.

Rather than making
much out of Jesus Christ.

And he's saying, when it
comes to your ministry,

if you're in the ministry,

if you're involved in the
building of this church,

he's sending a warning.

You guys are building
with wrong materials.

Remember, Paul doesn't just
come out of the blue

when he talks about things.

He speaks based on the errors,

based on the problems,

based on the weaknesses,

based on the sin that
was evident right there.

You can believe it.

He's saying this because
there were leaders

in that church that were not building

with the proper building materials.

And so what we don't want to do

is make this an overall
evaluation for all Christians.

And you know what?

I don't believe at the same time,

that if you ask Paul,

Paul, do you really believe
that a God-called man

in the leadership of the church

is going to get to the end

and every single thing is
going to be burned up?

I think what you have here

is a severe warning that's meant to throw

and cast fear upon those men who are

in those leadership positions.

And his understanding is

that when he wrote inspired
letters to God's people

who were erring,

that the Spirit of God
would take that word

and correct the people.

And when you get to 2 Corinthians,

you see correction
was definitely taking place.

So I really don't believe
that if you ask Paul,

do you really believe that there

are going to be people there

that are God-called men,

God-gifted men that are going to have

absolutely everything incinerated.

I think he would say, no,

by the grace of God, there won't

absolutely be people in that situation.

But I'll guarantee what he's teaching

is that you can build in certain ways,

and that these
Corinthians had been

building in certain
ways that it was

going to get burned up.

It was no good.

There were a lot of
things happening there.

They were putting a lot of emphasis

on spiritual gifts in a
way that he had to correct.

There were so many errors there.

Things he had to deal with.

When he says that they were acting carnal,

I believe that he was
talking from the very top

all the way down.

They were building
with carnal materials,

they were building
with wood, hay, and stubble.

They weren't really
laying Christ out

as the foundation.

They were putting emphasis on things

where emphasis was not at all proper.

Emphasis on gifts,
emphasis on certain men.

They were allowing sin to go unchecked.

There certainly wasn't
an emphasis on purity.

When you're letting a
man continue in the church

living with his father's wife.

You've got people in the church

suing one another.

The rich people coming together

and not waiting for the poor

in the Lord's Supper.

They're not building on foundations

of love and humility and graciousness

and Christ-likeness.

They're not building with Christ.

Remember what Christ said,

many are going to say to Him that day,

Lord, Lord...

And what's He say?

It's not everybody that
says to me, "Lord, Lord."

Isn't it amazing how often
we come back to this text.

He said, it's not everybody that says,

"Lord, Lord," that inherits
the Kingdom of Heaven;

it's those that do the will of the Father.

Now look, I guarantee you this,

nobody's over here inheriting
the Kingdom of Heaven

who didn't live a life that was consistent

with doing the will of the Father.

Right?

And so, there is no pastor,

truly God-called and truly God-saved,

that's going to get
to the end of his life,

and he's going to come there

and the fire's going to hit him

and nothing in his life is going to be

according to the will of the Father.

That's an impossibility, right?

Clearly impossible.

John 15:16

"You did not choose Me, but I chose you.

And appointed you that
you should go and bear fruit,

and that your fruit should abide."

You know what?

Jesus chooses people.

He's got a certain people for
His own personal possession

to be zealous of good works.

We are His workmanship.

How many of you know Ephesians 2:10?

Who can quote it?

"...God prepared beforehand

that we should walk in them."

Is that not what it says?

Does the Scripture not say

that God has specific
works, specific fruit

for the life of every one of His children,

and He's prepared them beforehand that

you would walk in them.

Does He not say that?

And so there's nobody
that's going to get there

that's going to be truly saved

that did not have works

that were appointed to them

that God's going to
make absolutely certain

that they carry out.

Listen to this.

John 15:18

"By this My Father is glorified,

that you bear much fruit,

and so prove to be My disciples."

So, if you don't bear much fruit,

then what?

You don't prove to be His disciple.

How do you prove to be His disciple?

By bearing much fruit.

I guarantee you this,

there's going to be nobody there

that didn't bear fruit.

Do you believe that?

So basically, what happens with

1 Corinthians 3 passage

is that people take it out of context.

Saved so as by fire.

And they immediately see

this pathetic Christian come there

and gets hit by this fire.

And he's totally incinerated.

It's all gone.

But that just simply conflicts

with so many other texts

in the Scriptures.

So many others.

And so 1 Corinthians 3 read in context

is definitely dealing with men

who are building the church.

And I think it needs to
be taken in that context.