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The circumstances of our lives may matter less than how we see them, says Rory Sutherland. At TEDxAthens, he makes a compelling case for how reframing is the key to happiness.

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Showing Revision 12 created 04/20/2017 by Krystian Aparta.

Title:
Perspective is everything
Description:

The circumstances of our lives may matter less than how we see them, says Rory Sutherland. At TEDxAthens, he makes a compelling case for how reframing is the key to happiness.
Speaker:
Rory Sutherland
1101 0:01 - 0:03

What you have here
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is an electronic cigarette.
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It's something that, since it was
invented a year or two ago,
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has given me untold happiness.
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(Laughter)
¶
12780 0:13 - 0:15

A little bit of it,
I think, is the nicotine,
¶
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but there's something
much bigger than that;
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which is, ever since, in the UK,
they banned smoking in public places,
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I've never enjoyed
a drinks party ever again.
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(Laughter)
¶
27790 0:28 - 0:31

And the reason, I only worked out
just the other day,
¶
30910 0:31 - 0:34

which is: when you go
to a drinks party and you stand up
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and hold a glass of red wine
and you talk endlessly to people,
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you don't actually want to spend
all the time talking.
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It's really, really tiring.
40679 0:41 - 0:45

Sometimes you just want to stand there
silently, alone with your thoughts.
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Sometimes you just want to stand
in the corner and stare out of the window.
49647 0:50 - 0:53

Now the problem is, when you can't smoke,
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if you stand and stare
out of the window on your own,
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you're an antisocial, friendless idiot.
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(Laughter)
¶
61100 1:01 - 1:05

If you stand and stare out of the window
on your own with a cigarette,
¶
64529 1:05 - 1:06

you're a fucking philosopher.
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(Laughter)
¶
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(Applause)
¶
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So the power of reframing things
¶
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cannot be overstated.
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What we have is exactly
the same thing, the same activity,
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but one of them makes you feel great
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and the other one,
with just a small change of posture,
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makes you feel terrible.
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And I think one of the problems
with classical economics is,
97198 1:37 - 1:40

it's absolutely preoccupied with reality.
99655 1:40 - 1:43

And reality isn't a particularly good
guide to human happiness.
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Why, for example,
are pensioners much happier
108927 1:49 - 1:50

than the young unemployed?
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Both of them, after all,
are in exactly the same stage of life.
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You both have too much time
on your hands and not much money.
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But pensioners are reportedly
very, very happy,
121081 2:01 - 2:05

whereas the unemployed
are extraordinarily unhappy and depressed.
125381 2:05 - 2:08

The reason, I think,
is that the pensioners believe
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they've chosen to be pensioners,
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whereas the young unemployed
feel it's been thrust upon them.
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In England, the upper-middle classes have
actually solved this problem perfectly,
¶
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because they've re-branded unemployment.
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If you're an upper-middle-class
English person,
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you call unemployment "a year off."
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(Laughter)
¶
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And that's because having a son
who's unemployed in Manchester
¶
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is really quite embarrassing.
153527 2:34 - 2:37

But having a son
who's unemployed in Thailand
156629 2:37 - 2:39

is really viewed
as quite an accomplishment.
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(Laughter)
¶
160789 2:41 - 2:43

But actually, the power
to re-brand things --
¶
163136 2:43 - 2:49

to understand that
our experiences, costs, things
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don't actually much depend
on what they really are,
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but on how we view them --
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I genuinely think can't be overstated.
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There's an experiment
I think Daniel Pink refers to,
¶
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where you put two dogs in a box
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and the box has an electric floor.
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Every now and then,
an electric shock is applied to the floor,
189809 3:10 - 3:12

which pains the dogs.
192660 3:13 - 3:16

The only difference is one of the dogs
has a small button in its half of the box.
196522 3:17 - 3:20

And when it nuzzles the button,
the electric shock stops.
201376 3:21 - 3:24

The other dog doesn't have the button.
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It's exposed to exactly the same level
of pain as the dog in the first box,
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but it has no control
over the circumstances.
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Generally, the first dog
can be relatively content.
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The second dog lapses
into complete depression.
219382 3:39 - 3:44

The circumstances of our lives
may actually matter less to our happiness
¶
223694 3:44 - 3:47

than the sense of control
we feel over our lives.
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It's an interesting question.
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We ask the question -- the whole
debate in the Western world
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is about the level of taxation.
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But I think there's another
debate to be asked,
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which is the level of control
we have over our tax money,
241931 4:02 - 4:07

that what costs us 10 pounds
in one context can be a curse;
246591 4:07 - 4:11

what costs us 10 pounds in a different
context, we may actually welcome.
252304 4:12 - 4:17

You know, pay 20,000 pounds
in tax toward health,
256642 4:17 - 4:19

and you're merely feeling a mug.
258595 4:19 - 4:22

Pay 20,000 pounds
to endow a hospital ward,
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and you're called a philanthropist.
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I'm probably in the wrong country
to talk about willingness to pay tax.
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(Laughter)
¶
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So I'll give you one in return:
how you frame things really matters.
¶
275277 4:35 - 4:38

Do you call it "The bailout of Greece"?
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Or "The bailout of a load of stupid banks
which lent to Greece"?
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(Laughter)
¶
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Because they are actually the same thing.
¶
284208 4:44 - 4:48

What you call them
actually affects how you react to them,
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viscerally and morally.
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I think psychological value is great,
to be absolutely honest.
293368 4:53 - 4:56

One of my great friends,
a professor called Nick Chater,
296264 4:56 - 4:59

who's the Professor of Decision
Sciences in London,
299162 4:59 - 5:04

believes we should spend far less time
looking into humanity's hidden depths,
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and spend much more time
exploring the hidden shallows.
307133 5:07 - 5:09

I think that's true, actually.
308669 5:09 - 5:14

I think impressions have an insane effect
on what we think and what we do.
313767 5:14 - 5:17

But what we don't have is a really
good model of human psychology --
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at least pre-Kahneman, perhaps,
319683 5:20 - 5:23

we didn't have a really good model
of human psychology
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to put alongside models of engineering,
of neoclassical economics.
327568 5:28 - 5:31

So people who believed in psychological
solutions didn't have a model.
¶
330915 5:31 - 5:33

We didn't have a framework.
332874 5:33 - 5:36

This is what Warren Buffett's
business partner Charlie Munger calls
336245 5:36 - 5:39

"a latticework on which
to hang your ideas."
339447 5:39 - 5:42

Engineers, economists,
classical economists
342344 5:42 - 5:45

all had a very, very robust
existing latticework
345299 5:45 - 5:48

on which practically
every idea could be hung.
348018 5:48 - 5:51

We merely have a collection
of random individual insights
351438 5:51 - 5:53

without an overall model.
353612 5:54 - 5:58

And what that means
is that, in looking at solutions,
358075 5:58 - 6:01

we've probably given too much priority
360825 6:01 - 6:05

to what I call technical engineering
solutions, Newtonian solutions,
364970 6:05 - 6:07

and not nearly enough
to the psychological ones.
367372 6:07 - 6:10

You know my example of the Eurostar:
¶
369709 6:10 - 6:11

six million pounds spent
370931 6:11 - 6:14

to reduce the journey time
between Paris and London
374175 6:14 - 6:16

by about 40 minutes.
376569 6:17 - 6:20

For 0.01 percent of this money,
you could have put wi-fi on the trains,
380441 6:20 - 6:23

which wouldn't have reduced
the duration of the journey,
383133 6:23 - 6:27

but would have improved its enjoyment
and its usefulness far more.
388025 6:28 - 6:30

For maybe 10 percent of the money,
389717 6:30 - 6:33

you could have paid all of the world's top
male and female supermodels
393075 6:33 - 6:36

to walk up and down the train
handing out free Château Pétrus
396034 6:36 - 6:37

to all the passengers.
397332 6:37 - 6:38

(Laughter)
¶
398398 6:38 - 6:41

You'd still have five million
pounds in change,
¶
400772 6:41 - 6:43

and people would ask
for the trains to be slowed down.
403421 6:43 - 6:48

(Laughter)
¶
407539 6:48 - 6:51

Why were we not given the chance
to solve that problem psychologically?
¶
410925 6:51 - 6:53

I think it's because there's an imbalance,
413433 6:53 - 7:00

an asymmetry in the way we treat creative,
emotionally driven psychological ideas
420091 7:00 - 7:05

versus the way we treat rational,
numerical, spreadsheet-driven ideas.
425016 7:05 - 7:07

If you're a creative person,
I think, quite rightly,
427507 7:08 - 7:10

you have to share
all your ideas for approval
429666 7:10 - 7:12

with people much more rational than you.
431627 7:12 - 7:15

You have to go in
and have a cost-benefit analysis,
434915 7:15 - 7:18

a feasibility study,
an ROI study and so forth.
437992 7:18 - 7:20

And I think that's probably right.
440643 7:21 - 7:23

But this does not apply
the other way around.
443313 7:23 - 7:25

People who have an existing framework --
445365 7:25 - 7:28

an economic framework,
an engineering framework --
447768 7:28 - 7:31

feel that, actually,
logic is its own answer.
451503 7:32 - 7:34

What they don't say is,
"Well, the numbers all seem to add up,
454433 7:34 - 7:38

but before I present this idea,
I'll show it to some really crazy people
457909 7:38 - 7:40

to see if they can come up with
something better."
460299 7:40 - 7:43

And so we -- artificially,
I think -- prioritize
463078 7:43 - 7:47

what I'd call mechanistic ideas
over psychological ideas.
467577 7:48 - 7:50

An example of a great psychological idea:
¶
469633 7:50 - 7:52

the single best improvement
in passenger satisfaction
472273 7:52 - 7:54

on the London Underground,
473601 7:54 - 7:55

per pound spent,
475195 7:55 - 7:58

came when they didn't add
any extra trains,
477554 7:58 - 7:59

nor change the frequency of the trains;
479483 7:59 - 8:03

they put dot matrix display boards
on the platforms --
483617 8:04 - 8:07

because the nature of a wait is not just
dependent on its numerical quality,
487492 8:07 - 8:09

its duration,
488759 8:09 - 8:12

but on the level of uncertainty
you experience during that wait.
492197 8:12 - 8:15

Waiting seven minutes for a train
with a countdown clock
495110 8:15 - 8:17

is less frustrating and irritating
497027 8:17 - 8:20

than waiting four minutes,
knuckle biting, going,
499990 8:20 - 8:22

"When's this train
going to damn well arrive?"
502879 8:23 - 8:25

Here's a beautiful example
of a psychological solution
¶
505460 8:25 - 8:27

deployed in Korea.
506655 8:27 - 8:29

Red traffic lights have a countdown delay.
509088 8:29 - 8:32

It's proven to reduce
the accident rate in experiments.
512138 8:32 - 8:33

Why?
513320 8:33 - 8:37

Because road rage, impatience and general
irritation are massively reduced
516865 8:37 - 8:41

when you can actually see
the time you have to wait.
520738 8:41 - 8:44

In China, not really understanding
the principle behind this,
523665 8:44 - 8:46

they applied the same principle
to green traffic lights --
526428 8:46 - 8:50

(Laughter)
¶
530290 8:50 - 8:52

which isn't a great idea.
¶
531836 8:52 - 8:55

You're 200 yards away, you realize
you've got five seconds to go,
534950 8:55 - 8:56

you floor it.
536126 8:56 - 8:59

(Laughter)
¶
539473 8:59 - 9:02

The Koreans, very assiduously,
did test both.
¶
541998 9:02 - 9:05

The accident rate goes down
when you apply this to red traffic lights;
545357 9:05 - 9:08

it goes up when you apply it
to green traffic lights.
547969 9:08 - 9:11

This is all I'm asking for, really,
in human decision making,
¶
550931 9:11 - 9:13

is the consideration
of these three things.
553060 9:13 - 9:16

I'm not asking for the complete primacy
of one over the other.
556049 9:16 - 9:18

I'm merely saying
that when you solve problems,
558313 9:18 - 9:21

you should look
at all three of these equally,
560819 9:21 - 9:23

and you should seek as far as possible
563044 9:23 - 9:26

to find solutions which sit
in the sweet spot in the middle.
565927 9:26 - 9:28

If you actually look at a great business,
¶
567922 9:28 - 9:32

you'll nearly always see all of these
three things coming into play.
571535 9:32 - 9:33

Really successful businesses --
573242 9:33 - 9:36

Google is a great, great
technological success,
575928 9:36 - 9:39

but it's also based
on a very good psychological insight:
580094 9:40 - 9:43

people believe something
that only does one thing
582675 9:43 - 9:47

is better at that thing than something
that does that thing and something else.
586858 9:47 - 9:50

It's an innate thing
called "goal dilution."
589588 9:50 - 9:52

Ayelet Fishbach has written
a paper about this.
592373 9:52 - 9:55

Everybody else at the time
of Google, more or less,
¶
594887 9:55 - 9:56

was trying to be a portal.
596158 9:56 - 9:59

Yes, there's a search function,
but you also have weather,
599008 9:59 - 10:01

sports scores, bits of news.
601929 10:02 - 10:04

Google understood
that if you're just a search engine,
604495 10:04 - 10:07

people assume you're a very,
very good search engine.
607357 10:07 - 10:11

All of you know this, actually,
from when you go in to buy a television,
610863 10:11 - 10:14

and in the shabbier end
of the row of flat-screen TVs,
613789 10:14 - 10:16

you can see, are these
rather despised things
616118 10:16 - 10:19

called "combined TV and DVD players."
619802 10:20 - 10:23

And we have no knowledge whatsoever
of the quality of those things,
623017 10:23 - 10:26

but we look at a combined
TV and DVD player and we go, "Uck.
626480 10:26 - 10:30

It's probably a bit of a crap telly
and a bit rubbish as a DVD player."
630436 10:30 - 10:33

So we walk out of the shops
with one of each.
633326 10:33 - 10:38

Google is as much a psychological success
as it is a technological one.
639000 10:39 - 10:42

I propose that we can use
psychology to solve problems
¶
641657 10:42 - 10:44

that we didn't even realize
were problems at all.
644012 10:44 - 10:48

This is my suggestion for getting people
to finish their course of antibiotics.
647799 10:48 - 10:49

Don't give them 24 white pills;
649392 10:49 - 10:52

give them 18 white pills and six blue ones
652429 10:52 - 10:54

and tell them to take
the white pills first,
654520 10:55 - 10:56

and then take the blue ones.
656886 10:57 - 10:58

It's called "chunking."
658061 10:58 - 11:01

The likelihood that people will get
to the end is much greater
661061 11:01 - 11:04

when there is a milestone
somewhere in the middle.
664847 11:05 - 11:07

One of the great mistakes,
I think, of economics
¶
667217 11:07 - 11:10

is it fails to understand
that what something is --
669644 11:10 - 11:12

whether it's retirement,
unemployment, cost --
673416 11:13 - 11:17

is a function, not only of its amount,
but also its meaning.
677971 11:18 - 11:21

This is a toll crossing in Britain.
¶
680797 11:21 - 11:24

Quite often queues happen at the tolls.
683758 11:24 - 11:26

Sometimes you get very,
very severe queues.
686006 11:26 - 11:28

You could apply
the same principle, actually,
688220 11:28 - 11:30

to the security lanes in airports.
689984 11:30 - 11:33

What would happen if you could actually
pay twice as much money
692994 11:33 - 11:34

to cross the bridge,
694169 11:34 - 11:36

but go through a lane
that's an express lane?
696312 11:36 - 11:38

It's not an unreasonable thing to do;
698106 11:38 - 11:40

it's an economically
efficient thing to do.
700141 11:40 - 11:42

Time means more
to some people than others.
702206 11:42 - 11:45

If you're waiting trying
to get to a job interview,
704661 11:45 - 11:49

you'd patently pay a couple of pounds more
to go through the fast lane.
708899 11:49 - 11:51

If you're on the way
to visit your mother-in-law,
711252 11:51 - 11:52

you'd probably prefer --
712427 11:52 - 11:54

(Laughter)
¶
713634 11:54 - 11:56

you'd probably prefer to stay on the left.
¶
716356 11:56 - 12:00

The only problem is if you introduce
this economically efficient solution,
¶
719857 12:00 - 12:01

people hate it ...
721634 12:02 - 12:05

because they think you're deliberately
creating delays at the bridge
724989 12:05 - 12:07

in order to maximize your revenue,
726667 12:07 - 12:10

and, "Why on earth should I pay
to subsidize your incompetence?"
730376 12:10 - 12:13

On the other hand,
change the frame slightly
732580 12:13 - 12:15

and create charitable yield management,
734895 12:15 - 12:18

so the extra money you get
goes not to the bridge company,
738053 12:18 - 12:19

it goes to charity ...
740211 12:20 - 12:23

and the mental willingness
to pay completely changes.
744128 12:24 - 12:27

You have a relatively
economically efficient solution,
746795 12:27 - 12:29

but one that actually meets
with public approval
749138 12:29 - 12:31

and even a small degree of affection,
751162 12:31 - 12:33

rather than being seen as bastardy.
754504 12:35 - 12:37

So where economists
make the fundamental mistake
¶
757182 12:37 - 12:39

is they think that money is money.
760275 12:40 - 12:45

Actually, my pain experienced
in paying five pounds
764530 12:45 - 12:47

is not just proportionate to the amount,
766701 12:47 - 12:49

but where I think that money is going.
769314 12:49 - 12:52

And I think understanding that
could revolutionize tax policy.
772334 12:52 - 12:54

It could revolutionize
the public services.
774361 12:54 - 12:57

It could actually change things
quite significantly.
776898 12:57 - 12:58

[Ludwig Von Mises is my hero.]
¶
778384 12:58 - 13:00

Here's a guy you all need to study.
¶
780122 13:00 - 13:02

He's an Austrian School economist
781751 13:02 - 13:06

who was first active in the first half
of the 20th century in Vienna.
786339 13:06 - 13:09

What was interesting
about the Austrian School
788555 13:09 - 13:12

is they actually grew up alongside Freud.
791612 13:12 - 13:14

And so they're predominantly
interested in psychology.
794289 13:14 - 13:19

They believed that there was
a discipline called praxeology,
798866 13:19 - 13:21

which is a prior discipline
to the study of economics.
801486 13:21 - 13:26

Praxeology is the study of human choice,
action and decision-making.
806660 13:27 - 13:28

I think they're right.
808009 13:28 - 13:30

I think the danger
we have in today's world
810101 13:30 - 13:32

is we have the study of economics
811805 13:32 - 13:36

considers itself to be a prior discipline
to the study of human psychology.
815859 13:36 - 13:39

But as Charlie Munger says,
"If economics isn't behavioral,
818852 13:39 - 13:40

I don't know what the hell is."
821804 13:42 - 13:48

Von Mises, interestingly, believes
economics is just a subset of psychology.
¶
827629 13:48 - 13:50

I think he just refers to economics
829558 13:50 - 13:53

as "the study of human praxeology
under conditions of scarcity."
833742 13:54 - 13:57

But Von Mises, among many other things,
836862 13:57 - 14:02

I think uses an analogy which is probably
the best justification and explanation
841536 14:02 - 14:06

for the value of marketing,
the value of perceived value
845767 14:06 - 14:09

and the fact that we should treat it
as being absolutely equivalent
849068 14:09 - 14:11

to any other kind of value.
851054 14:11 - 14:14

We tend to, all of us, even those of us
who work in marketing,
¶
854030 14:14 - 14:15

think of value in two ways:
855352 14:15 - 14:18

the real value, which is when
you make something in a factory
858273 14:18 - 14:19

or provide a service,
859451 14:19 - 14:21

and then there's a dubious value,
861093 14:21 - 14:24

which you create by changing
the way people look at things.
863928 14:24 - 14:26

Von Mises completely rejected
this distinction.
866246 14:26 - 14:28

And he used this following analogy:
868161 14:28 - 14:33

he referred to strange economists
called the French physiocrats,
873518 14:34 - 14:37

who believed that the only true value
was what you extracted from the land.
877172 14:37 - 14:40

So if you're a shepherd
or a quarryman or a farmer,
879681 14:40 - 14:41

you created true value.
881126 14:41 - 14:44

If however, you bought
some wool from the shepherd
884009 14:44 - 14:47

and charged a premium
for converting it into a hat,
887014 14:47 - 14:49

you weren't actually creating value,
888820 14:49 - 14:51

you were exploiting the shepherd.
891439 14:51 - 14:55

Now, Von Mises said that modern
economists make exactly the same mistake
¶
895186 14:55 - 14:57

with regard to advertising and marketing.
897577 14:58 - 14:59

He says if you run a restaurant,
899483 14:59 - 15:02

there is no healthy distinction to be made
901746 15:02 - 15:04

between the value you create
by cooking the food
904323 15:04 - 15:07

and the value you create
by sweeping the floor.
907203 15:07 - 15:10

One of them creates, perhaps,
the primary product --
909717 15:10 - 15:12

the thing we think we're paying for --
911606 15:12 - 15:14

the other one creates a context
within which we can enjoy
914471 15:14 - 15:16

and appreciate that product.
916019 15:16 - 15:19

And the idea that one of them
should have priority over the other
919215 15:19 - 15:20

is fundamentally wrong.
920944 15:21 - 15:23

Try this quick thought experiment:
¶
922635 15:23 - 15:25

imagine a restaurant
that serves Michelin-starred food,
925310 15:25 - 15:28

but where the restaurant smells of sewage
927981 15:28 - 15:30

and there's human feces on the floor.
930143 15:30 - 15:32

(Laughter)
¶
931576 15:32 - 15:34

The best thing you can do there
to create value
¶
934093 15:34 - 15:37

is not actually to improve
the food still further,
937133 15:37 - 15:40

it's to get rid of the smell
and clean up the floor.
942259 15:42 - 15:45

And it's vital we understand this.
944836 15:45 - 15:47

If that seems like a sort
of strange, abstruse thing --
¶
947507 15:48 - 15:51

in the UK, the post office
had a 98 percent success rate
951429 15:51 - 15:54

at delivering first-class
mail the next day.
954192 15:54 - 15:56

They decided this wasn't good enough,
956101 15:56 - 15:58

and they wanted to get it up to 99.
959234 15:59 - 16:03

The effort to do that
almost broke the organization.
963520 16:04 - 16:06

If, at the same time,
you'd gone and asked people,
965934 16:06 - 16:09

"What percentage of first-class mail
arrives the next day?"
968777 16:09 - 16:13

the average answer, or the modal answer,
would have been "50 to 60 percent."
973381 16:13 - 16:16

Now, if your perception
is much worse than your reality,
976119 16:16 - 16:19

what on earth are you doing
trying to change the reality?
979167 16:19 - 16:23

That's like trying to improve the food
in a restaurant that stinks.
984362 16:24 - 16:27

What you need to do is,
first of all, tell people
987104 16:27 - 16:32

that 98 percent of first-class mail
gets there the next day.
991635 16:32 - 16:33

That's pretty good.
993180 16:33 - 16:36

I would argue, in Britain,
there's a much better frame of reference,
996412 16:36 - 16:40

which is to tell people that more
first-class mail arrives the next day
999803 16:40 - 16:43

in the UK than in Germany,
because generally, in Britain,
1002542 16:43 - 16:45

if you want to make us happy
about something,
1004850 16:45 - 16:47

just tell us we do it
better than the Germans.
1007066 16:47 - 16:49

(Laughter)
¶
1008820 16:49 - 16:51

(Applause)
¶
1011096 16:51 - 16:54

Choose your frame of reference
and the perceived value,
¶
1014341 16:54 - 16:58

and therefore, the actual value
is completely transformed.
1017771 16:58 - 16:59

It has to be said of the Germans
1019440 16:59 - 17:02

that the Germans and the French
are doing a brilliant job
1022166 17:02 - 17:04

of creating a united Europe.
1023644 17:04 - 17:07

The only thing they didn't expect
is they're uniting Europe
1026538 17:07 - 17:10

through a shared mild hatred
of the French and Germans.
1029560 17:10 - 17:12

But I'm British;
that's the way we like it.
1031634 17:12 - 17:14

(Laughter)
¶
1034099 17:14 - 17:16

What you'll also notice
is that, in any case,
¶
1036244 17:16 - 17:17

our perception is leaky.
1037458 17:17 - 17:20

We can't tell the difference
between the quality of the food
1040360 17:20 - 17:22

and the environment
in which we consume it.
1042397 17:22 - 17:24

All of you will have seen this phenomenon
1044459 17:24 - 17:26

if you have your car washed or valeted.
1046465 17:26 - 17:30

When you drive away,
your car feels as if it drives better.
1049610 17:30 - 17:31

(Laughter)
¶
1050975 17:31 - 17:32

And the reason for this --
¶
1052255 17:32 - 17:35

unless my car valet
mysteriously is changing the oil
1054927 17:35 - 17:38

and performing work which I'm not paying
him for and I'm unaware of --
1058294 17:38 - 17:41

is because perception
is, in any case, leaky.
1060625 17:41 - 17:45

Analgesics that are branded
are more effective at reducing pain
¶
1064566 17:45 - 17:46

than analgesics that are not branded.
1066401 17:46 - 17:49

I don't just mean through reported
pain reduction --
1069043 17:49 - 17:51

actual measured pain reduction.
1070738 17:51 - 17:55

And so perception
actually is leaky in any case.
1076021 17:56 - 17:59

So if you do something
that's perceptually bad in one respect,
1079063 17:59 - 18:00

you can damage the other.
1080310 18:00 - 18:01

Thank you very much.
¶
1081485 18:01 - 18:04

(Applause)
¶

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