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Could you describe a time in your life
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in which the Lord disciplined you?
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And you look back on that time
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with utter thankfulness for the fruit
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it yielded in your life?
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Mack: Well, the one thing
that comes to my mind
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is what I kind of alluded to earlier.
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In about 1990,
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the church we were in had a split -
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a big division -
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and I was so discouraged in it.
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I was one of the pastors.
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And I was so discouraged
in that experience
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that I withdrew.
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I did not take a stand
of confronting people
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in a right way, in a loving way,
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but still confronting.
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I didn't know what to do.
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I was afraid.
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I had the fear of man,
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so I didn't respond right.
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And it caused me to
move in discouragement.
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And I didn't realize at the time -
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I honestly didn't -
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but I think for ten years,
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the Lord kind of let that
wilderness experience -
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I wasn't pastoring.
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We weren't even settled really.
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I worked.
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We had twins come along in 1992.
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And it was a very difficult time,
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because I couldn't
get any clear direction.
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What does God want of me?
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And it was a refining time
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of loving discipline.
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And I don't fully know
why it took ten years.
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Maybe it wasn't even ten years,
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but that was a time I was
truly disciplined by the Lord.
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Discipline is loving correction
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to make us more fruitful.
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It's not punishment, right?
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So, I learned huge lessons
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in retrospect that I should have done this
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as a pastor.
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If I would have done this,
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I would have protected
those believers more.
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If I had been courageous to say,
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"Brother, I disagree,
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and what you're doing is wrong
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because it's affecting others
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and you're being selfish in this."
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Saying things like that
when I should have,
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but I didn't have the courage to,
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I learned so much through that
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as a discipline from the Lord.
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And it's borne fruit in my life
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to take a stand when I need to;
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to see truth is on trial here,
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and people are going
to be affected by this
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if I don't respond in love,
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but still respond,
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so I've got to.
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And that was a big hard discipline,
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but that's the biggest one I can remember
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in my own life.
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Now, for the present,
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discipline is not joyful.
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It's grievous.
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It's hard to go through it.
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But, it's John 15 -
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He disciplines and prunes us
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because we are bearing fruit.
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Then we'll bear more fruit.
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James: So after that season of ten years,
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is that when you ended up back in Denton
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and the church started up again?
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Mack: Well, not the same church,
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but yes, we moved back to Denton in 1998.
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So it wasn't a full ten years,
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but it seemed like an eternity almost.
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So we came back because
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what came to me clearly was
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it was like God had shown me in my heart,
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I left where I was
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out of discouragement without direction
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to go to something positive
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and clear and specific.
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And so, it's always wrong
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to make decisions and choices
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out of discouragement.
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You'll almost always make a mistake.
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It's like marrying on the rebound
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four months later,
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and you realize,
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oh man, what did I do?
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You know people who do that.
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So we came back to Denton in 1998.
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(Incomplete thought)
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I truly had matured
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I honestly feel like.
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And I had been preaching since 1975,
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and now it was '98.
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I honestly believe I was now
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prepared enough to truly preach
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and help somebody.
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I mean, I don't know how to
say it any more than that.
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My spirit had matured.
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God had developed patience in me.
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He had given me a pastor's heart.
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He let me learn how to view issues
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in a right and wrong way.
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How to give answers about assurance
of salvation when somebody comes.
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How to help them analyze it.
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He gave me a pastor's heart.
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But if I hadn't been through
what I'd gone through
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in those years in the 1990's,
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I wouldn't have been near as equipped.
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So I praise God now for the fruit of it.
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I wouldn't want to go through it again.
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It's like open heart surgery.
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Praise God for that surgery!
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Lord, may it never be again.
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But when you can have it,
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you've got to have it to save your life.
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You're thankful for it
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and you're thankful for the surgeon.