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[audience applause]
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[Lindsay Levin - LL] So we have with us today two Buddhist monks
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who have traveled to be here,
to be part of COP26, to be here in Glasgow.
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They're both followers
of the Zen Master Thích Nhất Hạnh,
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and I'm delighted to welcome them
to the stage for conversation now.
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Brother Pháp Dung and Brother Spirit,
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please come up and join me.
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[audience applause]
[background welcome music]
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[Monks bowing in as they come on to the stage]
Come take a seat and thank you very much.
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Thank you very much for being here.
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I know you are having
actually a pretty intense time.
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You start your mornings with meditations
and people are gathering with you early morning.
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You're just being here kinda absorbing the energy
and spending time with people.
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I'd just like to ask, what are you picking up?
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What would you say about
the spiritual energy here, Brother Pháp Dung?
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[Brother Pháp Dung - BPD] Oh, I see.. Uhm
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People are very caught in their head,
and they're rushing around.
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So what we're offering here is
a little bit slower pace.
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When you walk here, it's like very surreal.
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People are like rushing by...
[LL] Right
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[BPD] and then not fully present.
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I think that's part of the ...
That needs to be part of the discussion:
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the culture that we have, that rushing.
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So in the morning we have meditation at 8 o'clock
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and these different team members come
and they sit with us. And we see that they...
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They need to really be cared for emotionally,
as well as bodily.
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There's a lot of tension. So we've seen ...
There's feeding back and it's helping.
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So I think that human element,
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taking care of the people doing negotiation,
the behind-the-scene, is a very crucial element.
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Cuz only through that
will you have a real openness and real dialogue.
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So I think that's the part
that we're adding to the picture,
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taking care of the activists,
the politicians, the negotiators.
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[LL] Right
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[BPD] So this is a...
We see that that's missing here.
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I think people, when they're full of stress,
it's very hard to listen and to be open.
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[LL] And for the people joining us by video,
this is a very big space.
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There are thousands of people here
all kinda working with real purpose.
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Now you two stand out. It's not easy to miss you,
right, by your beautiful robes.
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And I wonder, are people stopping you
in the corridor.
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Brother Spirit, what's that experience like?
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[Brother Spirit - BS] Yes, so, very frequently
people stopped us.
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And their first question usually is
"What are you doing?" [eyes rolling]
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[LL laughing]
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What are you doing here?
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So we'd like to ask another question,
which is
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Why don't we start with
"Who are we?"
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And that sort of stops them in their tracks.
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And then "Where are we?"
And "Where are we going?"
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And sometimes they ask us... Today
somebody asked us
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"What's your business?"
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And I said, "Well our business
is busy-ness-less-ness." [laughing]
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[BPD] No business
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[BS] Business of no business.
And that really stops people.
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And then we have a chance
to have a conversation.
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So I want to echo as well...
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some of the things my brother, Thầy Pháp Dung,
was saying, about caring for the changemakers.
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Uhm... because we see that
it's really an essential part of what we can offer.
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And very often what happens is
somebody sits down with us. And they're curious.
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They want to find out what we're here about.
And within about 10 seconds they're crying.
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[LL] Right
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[BS] This has happened so many times that it starts to be a little bit spooky, you know.
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"What? Are we just making everybody cry?
What's happening?"
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But it's because everybody is at their limit
of what they can tolerate.
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They're under so much strain just to get in
to this space.
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There's so much stress to
get to your session on time.
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And you don't have the logistical support
and so on and so forth.
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But especially at the emotional level.
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[LL] Right.
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[BS] As we've just heard from Melatti,
we know that
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for anybody working in this space, there's pain.
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We're faced with pain,
with frustration, with despair.
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And so we see it as absolutely essential
to talk about that.
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And to talk about actually how we can handle that.
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So it's not about covering it up, or denying it,
or making it go away.
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But it's how to metabolize that pain,
that suffering, that sorrow.
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And the good news for us is that actually
we have the technology, the spiritual technology.
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[LL] Right
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[BS} And we've had it for a very long time.
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And to me it's extraordinary that
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Somehow as a species, we still...
we've kind of lost touch with it.
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[LL] Right
[BS] So I think actually
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every culture, every tradition
has these kinds of methods.
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And so, you know, we as Zen Buddhist monks,
we just want to offer our little piece.
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And every tradition should offer its part.
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But that's what we are very, very...
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You know, I feel grateful actually everyday
because what I see is that ...
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it's very simple to help.
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And what we have works.
[LL] Right
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[BS] Like I said, within a few seconds,
we can take somebody
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from kind of holding themselves together...
They're very put-together, you know.
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Everybody knows how to put on a good face,
and keep it all together.
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Within a few seconds, they break, you know.
And they're crying.
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But then we can help them to become softer,
to be OK with the pain,
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to know how to handle it skillfully,
to know how to embrace it with love.
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So that it can become the fuel
for our continued engagement.
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And also like Melatti was saying,
knowing how to help people to rest,
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even just for a few breaths, like right now.
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Every one of us sitting here, you know,
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we're all carrying some level of burdens,
some level of strain.
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And just with a few words, we can remember that
Mother Earth is under our feet.
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It's not imagined, you can feel it.
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The mind is so powerful
we can remember
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this beautiful planet floating in space,
supporting us, offering us her stability.
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We can take a breath.
We can let our shoulders drop.
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And it's just a few seconds. But it changes
how we feel. It changes what we can do.
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It changes how we show up to the work,
to the meetings, to the difficult interactions.
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And...
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You know, so, I'm very motivated by that.
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And just today, you know, we saw the wonderful
youth march for brothers and sisters...
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[LL] Yeah, I wanna ask you,
because we're talking where about ...
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what's going on inside here,
[BS] Yeah
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[LL] and maybe a surprising facet
to part of what is going on inside here.
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And then today you got out on the street
with some of the community who've shown up.
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[BS] Yeah.
[LL] And it would be wonderful...
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I don't know what people are seeing on the media
in terms of what's going on.
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But it'd be wonderful if you just bring to life,
both of you,
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what you've experienced today
on the streets.
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[BPD] Yeah, we've been spending
since the first day of being in here, the zone here
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offering and being part of the different discussions.
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And my brother and I knew we have to do this,
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so we took our bikes and we were riding back
and we're... on our way back,
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we met this mass of children, families,
grandparents... playing music.
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It was an energy of joy.
[LL] Right.
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[BPD] I think what I felt was like,
"Wow, this is how to express concerns
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and maybe anger to translate that energy to joy."
There was like mothers and babies.
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I counted there's like at least 20 babies
on fathers' shoulders and...
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It was just a music. And I want to
bring some of that in here.
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Because I think what's missing sometime is
a little bit of joy as well.
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As we do this, it gets intense.
And I think of the old court in the old days maybe,
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where there is a jester, a musician coming in
and playing and having a little break
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from all the intensity of information.
Because you get so overloaded.
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When we saw them, we wanted go home and rest.
[LL laughing]
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But we'd stayed longer than we planned because
it's not about rest. It's about being nourished.
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And seeing this mother in front of me
taking her baby
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who is barely learning how to walk.
And I saw the baby, and ... there was no fear.
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Usually that intensity,
there's drumming and everything,
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every baby that I saw, there was no crying or...
you know, with a lot of people.
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But I recognize that every child there
was not fearful.
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They felt safe.
That's pretty amazing for that energy.
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So you see, even the baby was being nourished.
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And I think that's the spirit,
the human spirit that we're lacking
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[LL] Right
[BPD] As we look to solve real problems,
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we also need to bring in joy, the wonders,
and translate anger and all that stuff
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into this other energy that moves and inspires.
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So we have to be careful as activists
and scientists and politicians.
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And to be careful as we... Because it's toxic, too,
when we actually are overloading people.
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And this is what we're experiencing with
a lot of youth that come to our monastery.
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[BS] Uhm
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[BPD] A lot of activists were from the XR
movement came to our monastery ready to quit
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and they revived themselves
and found new inspiration.
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So this is for me what we felt this afternoon.
And it gave us energy to be here.
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And we wanted to share that to let that be
have a voice and have a place.
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Because it's scary to... That energy's scary for the,
you know, the debts and the suits.
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But this is very needed, I think, as we evolve
and try to solve this together.
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[LL] I wonder if we can talk a little bit about
the journey that we're all on as human beings,
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this journey if you like,
of growth and of transformation,
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and of how we've raised consciousness.
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I know that, I believe that you would say,
so only I would say that
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without a raising of our individual and collective
consciousness,
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we can't actually tackle problems
on the scale of climate change.
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And I wonder what you'd say to people
in terms of ...
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how we engage in that journey,
that life-long journey.
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What would be your guide,
Brother Spirit?
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[BS] Uhm, thank you, thank you for that question.
It was very essential for us.
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What I think we're seeing here as well is that
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it's natural to approach the problem
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as a problem of measurement, information,
and solutions, and sometimes techno solutionism.
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Of course. We need all of those things.
It's not to dismiss any of that.
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We really know that we have to rely on
the science. That's the base.
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But for us it's important to combine
all of that information,
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that sort of "head" world with heart, with love.
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And with a different relationship to who we are,
who we believe we are, & what we think our life is,
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and what this world is. Is it mere stuff? Is it matter
just to be extracted and used, you know.
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For us, it's kinda like even if we've solved,
so-called "solved", the climate crisis,
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even if we keep heating to 1.5 degrees,
even if we stop emitting greenhouse gases,
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for us that's not enough, actually.
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I don't want to add another problem
to everybody's place.
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But actually I think this is part of the solution,
which is looking at
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our relationship with Mother Earth,
our relationship to ourselves,
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and bringing in the.. a spiritual dimension,
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a dimension of reverence, of love,
of looking at how we look at each other.
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Like of course in a climate conference like this,
there's an element of wanting to maintain order
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so the protests have been kept
at a very safe, so-called "safe", distance.
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But for me, that's coming out of fear.
And I think we have to trust.
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We have to trust the love of the youth,
of the whole world, of all of humanity.
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The love of life, of our planet, of the living world.
And we have to let that in.
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So not just to use our heads, but to allow
ourselves to be motivated, guided, fueled, by love.
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Because if we're only fueled by the profit motive,
you know, by...
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You know, cuz we say, "Trust the market,
we'll be able to flip around with the race to zero.
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We'll make the companies compete each other.
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We'll use compete against each other
to get to carbon zero.
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We use competition to get to where we need to go.
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And that's fine as far as it goes.
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But even if we achieve success, it's a kind of
success that maybe toxic.
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Actually toxic to us as human beings
if we're always competing and struggling.
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So what we want to say is
there's other energy that can drive us:
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compassion, love, generosity, inclusiveness, spirit.
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And those things will never be toxic.
They can grow infinitely. Love can always grow.
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You know, you can become a victim of your
success. But you can't become a victim of love.
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[LL] So let me ask you finally
you're both also engaged in the pain of all of this
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and presumably also have times when you maybe
feel overwhelmed or a sense of despair,
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so perhaps you could each just give us
one practice, something that's important to you
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in terms of how you tap into your own
sense of hope and love.
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[BPD] Yeah, our practice is to come back,
and to follow our breath,
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so the technique, the technology of
retraining ourselves is through the breath.
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And when we're aware of our breath,
we breathe in.
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Ah, we recognize we're alive.
Breathe out, we relax our body.
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It's very simple. Everyone does it.
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You know, when you come home,
in your house and you put your luggage down.
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You sit down, you kinda go "Huhhh".
You're doing exactly that.
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And so that technology is not specifically belong...
Everyone has that.
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It's that ability to just rest
and be present with the moment.
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And not in our head of thinking.
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So that actually solely you find some rest,
some healing in the body, and it will help..
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You'll realize things.
So from stopping, you will see something.
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So that is the basic formula.
When we slow down, we stop. Our mind is clearer.
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And we can see, "Wow, I've come home.
My loved one is here.
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"I recognize my children. I recognize my partner.
I recognize myself."
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So love is not something ephemeral and...
it's very tangible.
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And you can feel it. You can train that.
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And when someone is content
in that way with their life,
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they're content with their loved ones,
their relationships,
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it has a print, affect, on emission and consumption
and the culture.
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That's the human activity that we're not calculating.
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We were calculating all these stuffs
because it's easy to measure.
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But I think I would love people to measure
what happens after a person goes to a retreat
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and they change their direction,
they change their diet,
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they change the way they move in the city,
and their commitment to inspire.
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So that has what Katherine was sharing,
that beautiful way of emitting good stuff.
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[LL] And a final thought from you,
Brother Spirit, then.
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[BS] Thank you, I think, uhm, one of the things that
I can tap into at any moment
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is my sense of connectedness.
So we all get interdependent, right?
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Interdependence, now, I think is well-understood
especially in the climate movement.
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If you've studied any kind of, you know, science,
you know that
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we're all completely inextricably interconnected.
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But what I'd like to propose is that
we start to find practical ways to take that
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from a kind of intellectual "Yes, I get it"
to a felt experience of deep interconnection
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and what we would call "non-self",
or more than self.
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So despite the fact that we get it intellectually,
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I think we're still operating
within a paradigm of separation
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ultimate fundamentally.
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If we stay in that paradigm, we're just gonna
reproduce
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the same kind of system
that's giving rise to the current crisis.
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So this is critical for us.
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So to give an example, like I'm sitting here
but I'm not alone.
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What you see here is just the, sort of,
it's like the fruit body of mycelial network.
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You just see the mushroom,
but underneath there's a vast network.
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So for me I can connect instantly with my
brothers & sisters back home, hundreds of them.
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Uh you know, we're just the tip of the branch
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and behind us is the tree, the roots,
the rhizome, and the ancestors.
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So that's in space,
with all of the natural systems that support us.
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I'm not just human. I'm the trees.
I'm the living biosphere. And we all are.
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So that's in space. But also in time.
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In the axis of time, I can connect and ask for
support from my parents.
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You know they're here with me now.
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I can ask for support from all my ancestors,
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all the way back through the lineage,
human and non-human.
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I can ask for support from my teacher,
and from his teachers,
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and the whole lineage of practitioners
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who have cultivated love and wisdom
of over thousands of years.
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And that's actually what permits us to be here
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and to keep our freshness, and to keep our love
and to help us when it gets hard.
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And we can tap into that,
anybody can tap into that, it's not difficult.
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But we need to think about how
we can spread that knowledge.
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Spread that, share that technology.
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Like Melatti was saying, we could have
a hour a day mandated for every school child
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of environmental awareness education,
but maybe five or ten minutes of that hour
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should be how to take care of yourself.
How to take care of your feelings.
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How to take care of each other.
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Because we can't do this alone.
We have to be a community.
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And that community has to be
a meaningful community
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where we can really offer each other
the kind of support that we need.
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[LL] Thank you brothers,
thank you for being here with us tonight
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and thank you for being present at COP26
and for all that you're doing.
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[BS] Thank you
[LL] Thank you
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[audience applause]
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[A senior man's voice] Thank you