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34C3 preroll music
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Herald Angel: And I'm very happy to have 2[br]speakers here who
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will tell us about their[br]experiences on the Iuventa, the ship that
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was seized in august this year. Kathrin[br]has been doing search and rescue
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operations in the mediteranean since 2[br]years, and she was on board when the boat
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was seized, when the Iuventa was seized,[br]and she was even Head of Staff. Hendrik
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has also been active in such a rescue[br]operation as a RHIB
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chuckles[br]Voice-over: driver
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Herald Angel: RHIBer, which is a kind of[br]special function, and he has also been
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doing this for 2 years approximately, for[br]different NGOs. And I am very happy that
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they are here and can tell us about what[br]happend on the Iuventa. So, we have
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translation to German on the Mumble that[br]is in the back now, and yeah, please
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welcome them to the big applause, thank[br]you.
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applause[br]Hendrik: Hello. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the
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introduction. Hello everybody. Welcome to[br]the talk "The Seizure of the Iuventa". We
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are glad that a few people made it here.[br]When we actually planned for the talk we
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were planning for one hour, so we put a[br]lot of content in the description and it
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was only two weeks ago that we learned we[br]only have half an hour so we were really
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pressed to focus a bit. So. Yeah what I[br]will do is I will give you a quick
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introduction into the area we operate in[br]which is the central Mediterranean. I will
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tell you what we do there. And after that[br]Kathrin will talk about the actual seizure
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of the Iuventa. So this is Kathrin, I'm[br]Hendrik obviously, I think you already
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noticed that. So yeah I like maps. So I[br]put this map in the slides. So, migration
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is happening we all know that. And people[br]are trying to reach Europe for, yeah in
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search of a better and safer life. So the[br]reasons why they are fleeing are very
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different. There are war, violence,[br]discrimination, prosecution, or poverty.
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They all have their reasons to leave their[br]homes. So what we see here is the routes
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these refugees take are constantly[br]changing and that is due to changing
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political circumstances. We have different[br]routes through the Mediterranean. For a
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while now we have the eastern route that[br]was quite famous two years ago when a lot
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of people tried to cross the Mediterranean[br]from Turkey to Greece. That was basically
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closed. We had the western route like 10,[br]15 years ago. A lot of people tried to
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cross it from Morocco to Spain or to the[br]Canary Islands. And at the moment we
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mainly are focusing on the central[br]Mediterranean route, that is where all the
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migration, or most of the migration is[br]happening. People are trying to cross
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mainly from Libya, which is the brown spot[br]at the bottom, to Italy. In the last
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couple of months there also were people[br]trying to cross from Tunisia, but still
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the main part of the migration is[br]happening through Libya. So to give you a
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better understanding about what we are[br]talking here, we draw you a map with some
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distances on it. The distances are given[br]in nautical miles. That is the unit we use
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at sea. Just to give you an example: Under[br]perfect conditions, a refugee boat that
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would leave Libya would take at least 3[br]days to Lampedusa, more than 4 days to
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Malta, and more than 5,5 days to Sicily.[br]That would be under perfect conditions
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that never exist. There are always waves.[br]There is the wind, the boats often don't
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have a compass so they don't know where to[br]go. So in fact the only boat we know of
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that really made it to Malta was underway[br]for 8 days. So the distances these people
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have to cross, have to cover, are quite[br]long. So the classic boats we encounter on
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that route, these type of boats, below you[br]see a wooden boat, these wooden boats have
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really different sizes. They take from 100[br]up to 1000 people. Usually 500 people with
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plus minus 100, but their fit up to 1000[br]people in them. And on the upper part you
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see the typical boat that was used until[br]last summer. That is the rubber boat. 120
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to 150 people usually fit in there. But we[br]also encountered boats with 180 people in
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them. These conditions like these boats[br]and the long distance and these not
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seaworthy boats of course make this route[br]the most dangerous route in the world. So
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the most people trying to cross borders[br]are dying in the Mediterranean. You see
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this statistics, they are from the Missing[br]Migrants Project. They only collect the
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data off the known deaths. These are no[br]absolute numbers, it's just a relation. So
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the big dark blue part is the relation of[br]the people dying in the Mediterranean
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related to the rest of the world. So I[br]think you all see that the Mediterranean
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is really really a dangerous route to[br]take. But still people are forced to take,
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to use this route because Europe and their[br]allies are basically closing off the
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shorter and safer routes. So the[br]international law states a duty to rescue
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people in distress. We always have acted[br]and complied with these laws of the sea
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and these international laws and we are[br]fulfilling a duty that usually is up to
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the European Union but they are not[br]willing to do that. So the NGOs had to
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step in to rescue these people. So the[br]region we are operating in ...
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applause[br]Thanks. The region we are operating in is
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also regulated by international laws. You[br]have Libya there of course the Libyan law
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applies as well as in the C Zone on up to[br]the 12 mile line, which is the red line
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you see there. This is also Libyan[br]territorial waters. And from the 12th mile
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on it's basically international waters. We[br]have the so-called contiguous zone up to
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24 miles, where the Libyan authorities[br]have certain law enforcement rights, but
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it still is international waters. So the[br]blue shape you see is the Search and
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Rescue Area where we find most of the[br]boats. And that is basically where we
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operate up to the 12 mile line, we don't[br]cross the 12 mile line usually. So to be
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able to conduct effective operations we[br]need of course to buy a ship, because
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without a ship you cannot go there. So the[br]Iuventa was bought and the Iuventa was
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sent to the area where most boats get in[br]distress. That means we are doing
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proactive search and rescue. Proactive in[br]this case means we go there before boats
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get in distress and actively search for[br]them. That is because ships move slowly so
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we cannot wait on Malta until ships get
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in distress, until boats get in distress
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because it would take us 24 hours to get[br]there. So for us it is important to be
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there when the people depart from shore,[br]because these boats you saw the pictures
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on the slides before they are immediately[br]a distress case, as soon as they are in
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the open sea, there's no discussion about[br]that. As soon as one of these overcrowded
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boats is in the open sea they are a[br]distress case. They don't have to sink to
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be a distress case. So we need to go there[br]before they depart to be able to help
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immediately. The Iuventa is a very small[br]ship, you can see that it's only 33 metres
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long. There's not much people fitting on[br]there and for transfer, it usually can
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take only the crew. So we act as a first[br]response unit. When we find the boats in
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distress, we secure them with life jackets[br]and life rafts. So we supply lifejackets
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to the people on the boat and, if[br]necessary, bring out life rafts and
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evacuate people on the life rafts. And[br]then call for bigger ships that transfer
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them to Italy. You can see one of the[br]bigger ships here. It's the Vost Prudence.
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It was used by MSF, it was chartered[br]basically, and this is a way bigger ship
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and it can take way more people and it can[br]bring them safely to Italy. So these
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transfers to these big ships we always do[br]in close cooperation with the Maritime
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Rescue Coordination Center in Rome, the[br]so-called MRCC. The MRCC is responsible
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for distress cases in that area. They[br]are there to coordinate the rescue
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operations and they are always ordering[br]the transfer of the migrants. So whenever
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we transferred migrants to one of these[br]big ships, the MRCC ordered us to do so,
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we never did that on our own. But you have[br]to keep in mind: The MRCC is not an agency
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that is acting independently. It basically[br]is a subordinate of the Interior Ministry
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in Italy, so it is bound by instructions[br]to the Interior Ministry. You have to keep
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that in mind for later when Kathrin is[br]telling you something. As I already said:
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The Iuventa is not suited to transport[br]people to a place of safety. It is only
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there to secure them. That was always[br]clearly communicated with the MRCC and we
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always acted as a first responder, and[br]secured the situation. That was our job.
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That is what we are good at. So this is[br]how we operated from the beginning, and
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this is how we operated on another NGO[br]vessel I've been in 2016, the Minden. It
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was the same case: We were there as a[br]first responder, we secured the people,
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transferred them to bigger vessels, they[br]then brought them to Italy. This is also
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how all the other NGOs working there[br]worked, like CI Sea-Watch, MSF, Safe the
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Children, Moas Mission, Lifeline, and all[br]the other NGOs working there. We're not
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alone there. And it was a successful,[br]proven concept. So just to tell it once
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more: The concept is we have smaller[br]boats, staying there, securing the people,
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and once they are secured we call for[br]bigger ships, call for help, transfer them
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to these bigger ships, and they then bring[br]them to a place of safety, which usually
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is Italy. But in May 2017 suddenly some[br]things started to change for the Iuventa.
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Kathrin: Thank you.
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One thing I may want to emphasize again [br]is that everything we did was always
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under the coordination of the Rescue[br]Coordination Center in Rome in Italy and
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up until then we really had a good working[br]relationship with them. We were conducting
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successful and very efficient search[br]operations, rescue operations. Maybe a
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little bit too efficient. So we can say a[br]chain of unusual events started in May
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this year. And one situation I want to[br]talk about now is when we received
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distress calls over the radio about[br]numerous migrant boats in distress in an
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area we were in. And the other ships in[br]vicinity who had found those boats, they
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called us and asked for our assistance to[br]rescue these people, and up until that not
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an unusual situation. However all of a[br]sudden we were requested by the MRCC, the
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coordination center in Rome, to withdraw[br]to leave the Search and Rescue Zone
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immediately and to go to Lampedusa. So to[br]make that clear: We were ordered to ignore
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distress calls of people at imminent, who[br]were at imminent threat of their life and
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go away. This has never happened before[br]until then. So as you can imagine we were
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torn back and forth whether we should[br]actually do that, or not. We were somewhat
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obliged to follow their instructions but[br]it did mean obviously that we had to leave
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people on these boats in distress behind.[br]And I can remember the persistent efforts
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that day we were trying to make, and also[br]others were trying to make, to keep the
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Iuventa in the SAR Zone for that, for that[br]situation. However, it did not work out,
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they continued insisting. And finally we[br]had to give in, and proceed to Lampedusa.
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Unfortunately, later we learned that those[br]two days when the Iuventa was absent,
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which turned into one of the most busiest[br]rescue periods we had seen in 2017. Many
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hundred people lost their lives and the[br]remaining capacities in the SAR Zone were
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just way beyond their capacities. So this[br]very procedure continued twice: Once more
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in May, and another time in June. And[br]again: Back then we were absolutely in the
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dark as to what could possibly be the[br]motivation behind such instructions and we
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realized something had changed, the good[br]working relationship with the MRCC for
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some reason wasn't that good anymore. But[br]we did not understand what was going on,
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why are they behaving like that. And I[br]mean we have to realise that: This is an
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authority whose duty it is to coordinate[br]rescues at sea, and to save people's lives
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at sea. And they are withdrawing and[br]actively reducing Search and Rescue ships
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from where and when they're needed most.[br]We were utterly astonished, not to say,
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speechless. And we could imagine various[br]scenarios until then. Of course we were
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quite aware that the situation they were[br]dealing with is really, I mean, not easy
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to deal with. So we were a lot of the[br]times putting it down to "Hey, okay,
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they're probably really overwhelmed with[br]dealing all these increasingly complicated
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rescues in the Mediterranean, and[br]eventually that leading to really poor
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decision making". However such incidents[br]kept occuring. And at the end of July the
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Italian coast guard transferred 2 migrants[br]on board of the Iuventa. And they had
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found them in a really small rubber boat.[br]They had left from Tripoli and they
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requested us to take them on board. So[br]again that was a rather unusual event,
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never happened before, as we learned from[br]Hendrik before. The boats are usually a
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little bit bigger than three metres and[br]there are usually a few more people than
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two on there. Yet, you know, what if[br]what's happening out there is actually
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normal. So yes we took those 2 people on[br]board and we accommodated our guests for
0:16:41.139,0:16:47.370
two days before we actually got any[br]instructions as to how to continue, and we
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were kind of almost expecting that we had[br]to proceed to Lampedusa with our two
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guests. So on the way to Lampedusa,[br]approximately half way, we received
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another distress call from Rome, about a[br]boat that had apparently left in Tunesia
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in the early morning. And what was really[br]interesting that day was that they gave us
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super precise instructions as to how to[br]perform a search pattern. A search pattern
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is like the organized way of performing a[br]search at sea with the coordinates and
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distances to speeds you go, so they were[br]in total control of what we did and how we
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did it, and they were making sure[br]continuously that we are following their
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plan. Something never happened before[br]because usually they were really not
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interested in how we performed the search,[br]as long as we found the boats, obviously.
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While they were making us perform a search[br]pattern that would have taken us three
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days to complete, the way they ordered us[br]to do it, they neither gave us an official
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distress notification, nor an official[br]search and rescue case number, both of
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which would be the usual procedure. And[br]probably worth by adding is that also the
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Iuventa was the only ship involved in that[br]search that day, all the other ships were
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just not a few between Tunisia and[br]Lampedusa had not been, obviously, not
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been informed. Another private rescue ship[br]that was, that happened to be in the area
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was initially declined by the MRCC to[br]support us. Then I kept insisting like:
0:18:41.890,0:18:46.050
"Hey guys, we cannot possibly [br]do this on our own".
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And so eventually they allowed them to[br]join into the search. Very interesting
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also is that we requested the support [br]of a surveillance plane,
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of a private surveillance plane [br]by Sea-Watch, the Moon Bird,
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and it was completely rejected and[br]declined from morning till evening that
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day. So Moon Bird never left the ground in[br]Malta that day. And yet believe it or not:
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We were still not fully convinced that the[br]MRCC's decisions are actually really
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solely driven by the interests of the[br]Ministry of Interior in Italy.
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We were still somewhat in denial, thinking[br]that, you know, something like law
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enforcement would be beyond their scope,[br]really. And so our paranoia level had
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simply just not, could not grasp yet the[br]dimension of where this would take us.
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Until the very moment when we reached[br]Italian territorial waters close to
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Lampedusa, and 4 Coast Guard ships[br]escorted us with blue lights into the
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harbor of Lampedusa. And the Iuventa was[br]searched and seized on August 2nd. So,
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slowly it was dribbling, all these events[br]beforehand started to make sense, fell
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into place. And in fact, there are a lot[br]of facts now, in hindsight that were, you
0:20:22.630,0:20:27.329
know, we can, that we can put in order,[br]and we know that the warrants for the
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search, as well as for the seizure, had[br]both been signed one day before we
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actually came to Lampedusa. And also the[br]complete confiscation order of the Iuventa
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had been leaked to the media in advance so[br]they could they could be there, they could
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receive us in the middle of the night.[br]They were waiting for us at the peer, the
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Italian press. And, you know, then you[br]think: "Okay, that search pattern we did.
0:20:59.769,0:21:03.919
What was that about? Were they buying time[br]to fly in all these police officers that
0:21:03.919,0:21:12.320
ended up on our ship?" But one thing we[br]know for sure now is that the scenario I
0:21:12.320,0:21:18.059
talked about before when they withdrew the[br]Iuventa from distress calls that day in
0:21:18.059,0:21:25.130
May, there was actually a price they[br]accepted to pay to install a bug on the
0:21:25.130,0:21:33.710
bridge of the Iuventa that day. Also when[br]they continuously ordered the Iuventa back
0:21:33.710,0:21:37.569
to Lampedusa, I mean, now that kind of[br]starts making sense as well if you
0:21:37.569,0:21:49.419
consider that the capacity of a SD card[br]may not be that big over such a long time.
0:21:49.419,0:21:55.819
Roundabout the same time when the bug was[br]installed on the bridge of the Iuventa
0:21:55.829,0:22:02.490
there were also 2..., there was also 1[br]undercover cop placed on another private
0:22:02.490,0:22:06.989
rescue ship and he later produced forged[br]evidence to incriminate the crew of the
0:22:06.989,0:22:13.869
Iuventa. So in fact, the investigation, we[br]then learned, of the Iuventa crew by the
0:22:13.869,0:22:21.530
Italian authorities was started as early[br]as September 2016 (last year) when two
0:22:21.530,0:22:27.920
security officers on board of another[br]vessel, they were both former cops, had
0:22:27.920,0:22:34.559
proactively informed not only special[br]police forces dealing with organized crime
0:22:34.559,0:22:40.230
in Sicily, but also the Italian foreign[br]intelligence service and a politician of
0:22:40.230,0:22:46.169
the Lega Nord in Italy, and although their[br]testimonies were somewhat contradictory
0:22:46.169,0:22:51.750
and they were reporting strange behavior[br]of the Iuventa, they actually did prompt a
0:22:51.750,0:22:57.909
large scale investigation. So the[br]accusations that are meant to justify the
0:22:57.909,0:23:05.490
seizure of the ship include: Facilitation[br]of illegal immigration, Collusion with
0:23:05.490,0:23:13.450
human traffickers, and possession of[br]firearms. However, until this day, there
0:23:13.450,0:23:17.749
are no criminal charges against any[br]individual crewmembers, nor against the
0:23:17.749,0:23:25.150
organization, which I guess works in their[br]favor as well because they have reached
0:23:25.150,0:23:30.860
what they wanted, they bought time, they[br]have one ship less in the Search and
0:23:30.860,0:23:36.089
Rescue area at the moment. And the moment[br]they actually get a trial they start
0:23:36.089,0:23:43.800
having to produce real evidence, which may[br]be trouble for them. So the seizure of the
0:23:43.800,0:23:48.790
Iuventa they called a so-called[br]'Preventive Measure', and that was only
0:23:48.790,0:23:56.009
enabled by Anti-Mafia laws, which by the[br]way were also used against..., for similar
0:23:56.009,0:24:05.660
cases like the Capandamur in 2005 and[br]Tunisian fishers in 2007, both of which
0:24:05.660,0:24:12.289
cases the charges had to be dropped after[br]some years. Still the damage was done. So
0:24:12.289,0:24:18.639
we have of course appealed the seizure, in[br]the meantime, at the court in Trapani,
0:24:18.639,0:24:22.780
but, as we expected, that was rejected and[br]has been taken to the next level at the
0:24:22.780,0:24:30.439
Supreme Court in Rome. And yeah, we are[br]now waiting for them to decide whether
0:24:30.439,0:24:35.940
actually the seizure of the Iuventa was[br]legal or not.
0:24:36.110,0:24:40.950
Hendrik: What we had to learn in the[br]aftermath was that the seizure of the
0:24:40.950,0:24:46.880
Iuventa was only a small part in a way[br]bigger political fight. What the EU
0:24:46.880,0:24:50.759
actually wants to do is they want to shut[br]down the central Mediterranean route at
0:24:50.759,0:24:55.360
all costs, and what they also want to[br]prevent is pictures of drowning people.
0:24:55.360,0:24:59.360
And instead of sending ships there to[br]rescue these people, what they want to do
0:24:59.360,0:25:04.090
is they want to get rid of the witnesses[br]that document how the people drown and
0:25:04.090,0:25:10.080
actually save them. So they are trying to[br]stop the NGOs from working there.
0:25:10.080,0:25:14.159
applause[br]boo
0:25:14.159,0:25:19.520
So what we learned is that the fight for[br]the Iuventa we are fighting at the moment
0:25:19.520,0:25:23.770
is not a legal fight but a political[br]fight, and we are waging that fight
0:25:23.770,0:25:29.070
together with a lot of other NGO that are[br]active there in the central Mediterranean.
0:25:29.070,0:25:33.059
So for us of course the seizure of the[br]Iuventa was a drawback. We don't have a
0:25:33.059,0:25:37.950
ship anymore which with which we can[br]operate. But still you can see also with
0:25:37.950,0:25:42.969
constant pressure, sometimes there are[br]positive surprises. For example in
0:25:42.969,0:25:48.580
December the United Nations made an[br]evacuation flight for migrants from Libya
0:25:48.580,0:25:54.500
directly to Europe. And that of course was[br]only possible because of the constant
0:25:54.500,0:25:58.899
media work a lot of NGOs did so that the[br]European Union had to react and allow
0:25:58.899,0:26:05.220
that. So what this also shows us is that[br]with patience and continuous struggle it
0:26:05.220,0:26:08.919
still is possible to drill small holes[br]into the walls of Fortress Europe.
0:26:09.899,0:26:12.599
Kathrin: Yes, continue that fight! [br]Thank you.
0:26:12.599,0:26:13.619
Hendrik: Thanks.
0:26:13.619,0:26:34.069
applause[br]cheer
0:26:34.069,0:26:44.810
Herald Angel: Breathtaking. Thank you so[br]much. So, do we have questions? We have
0:26:44.810,0:26:54.840
some microphones in the Saal, so you can[br]just go there, and place yourself. Okay, I
0:26:54.840,0:26:58.880
think I will start with number 6.[br]Microphone No. 6: Yes, hello, thank you
0:26:58.880,0:27:05.980
for the good work. You mentioned a charge[br]of firearms on the ship. Were there any?
0:27:05.980,0:27:11.930
Kathrin: Good question. No, they have not[br]found any evidence at all during the
0:27:11.930,0:27:18.769
search, and we also later learned that[br]they had to include this section into the
0:27:18.769,0:27:23.600
accusation to actually justify the seizure[br]at all, because those are the two
0:27:23.600,0:27:31.290
accusations whould've not been strong[br]enough to justify the seizure.
0:27:31.290,0:27:37.020
Herald Angel: Okay, microphone 1 please.[br]Microphone 1: Thank for the talk. 3 quick
0:27:37.020,0:27:41.120
questions: How much did the Iuventa cost?[br]How much would it cost to buy a new ship?
0:27:41.120,0:27:47.340
And is this feasible?[br]laughter
0:27:47.340,0:27:51.699
Hendrik: I actually have no idea much that[br]ship cost, do you know that?
0:27:51.699,0:27:58.750
Kathrin: I roughly know how much a ship in[br]that size would cost now, at a similar
0:27:58.750,0:28:09.550
age. We are probably looking at between[br]180.000 to 250.000 Euro. And feasible or
0:28:09.550,0:28:15.490
not, from an economic point of view[br]probably doable, yes, I mean, people have
0:28:15.490,0:28:20.139
done it before, and it's probably possible[br]to do it again. From a political point of
0:28:20.139,0:28:28.690
view it's certainly debateable whether...,[br]how to proceed and what the right action
0:28:28.690,0:28:33.810
is at this point.
0:28:33.810,0:28:38.720
Herald Angel: Okay, we have a Signal, we[br]have a question from the Internet, please.
0:28:38.720,0:28:42.630
Signal Angel: Is what happened to your[br]ship unique, or are there other ships that
0:28:42.630,0:28:45.410
have been seized?
0:28:45.410,0:28:48.052
Kathrin: Can... I didn't understand the[br]question.
0:28:48.052,0:28:52.429
Hendrik: Actually it's... The seizure is[br]unique but there have been other ships
0:28:52.429,0:29:00.890
that have been searched by the cops like[br]from Save the Children and MSF.
0:29:00.890,0:29:05.360
Herald Angel: Okay, number 1 please.[br]Kathrin: Something to the answer of that
0:29:05.360,0:29:11.569
question: We... In our file we certainly[br]also know that while they are
0:29:11.569,0:29:17.980
investigating against the Iuventa crew,[br]they have tapped phones of numberous
0:29:17.980,0:29:23.620
people that also work for all the other[br]NGOs, mainly in Italy, so we know that
0:29:23.620,0:29:31.029
this is going over and beyond what[br]happened to us, but we were just a, like a
0:29:31.029,0:29:37.420
digestible bite, to put it that way.[br]Herald Angel: What a bite. Okay, number 1
0:29:37.420,0:29:42.230
please.[br]Microphone 1: Let's say I've got a half a
0:29:42.230,0:29:47.450
year of free time on hand... where do I[br]sign up?
0:29:47.450,0:29:53.030
laughter[br]applause
0:29:53.030,0:29:57.200
Hendrik: Sounds great, I can invite you to[br]come to the assembly afterwards. We have
0:29:57.200,0:30:01.009
an "Just humans" assembly in hall 2 where[br]a lot of these NGOs I mentioned in the
0:30:01.009,0:30:06.469
talk actually are, so just come and talk[br]to us, and find us there.
0:30:08.359,0:30:12.320
Herald Angel: Okay, one last question, I[br]hope it's a short question because we just
0:30:12.320,0:30:15.710
got 2 more minutes.[br]Microphone: Thanks for the talk, and
0:30:15.710,0:30:22.379
thanks for the work you do. One question:[br]The bug, was it actually legal? Was it a
0:30:22.379,0:30:28.070
legal operation that they did that? And[br]how do you know that there is a bug, that
0:30:28.070,0:30:31.210
there have been a bug?[br]Kathrin: We know that there is a bug
0:30:31.210,0:30:36.210
because that was a... it's part of the[br]investigation file that we were handed
0:30:36.210,0:30:44.129
over, part of the 500 pages investigation[br]file. We know the exact date and time,
0:30:44.129,0:30:48.169
when the bug has been installed, and[br]roundabout where, namely on the bridge of
0:30:48.169,0:30:53.419
the Iuventa. Whether or not that action[br]was legal, because we are looking at
0:30:53.419,0:31:01.880
Italien authorities, planting a bug on a[br]ship under Dutch flag, bugging people in
0:31:01.880,0:31:09.370
interational waters, mostly from German[br]decent. Until today we have not got a
0:31:09.370,0:31:17.789
clear answer to that question, we are[br]still asking a number of lawyers around
0:31:17.789,0:31:24.310
Europe and it's probably a situation that[br]doesn't happen too often. Also you're
0:31:24.310,0:31:27.789
warmly invited to come around to our[br]assembly and we can talk about that a
0:31:27.789,0:31:31.799
little bit more, because that's one of the[br]most interesting and pressing questions we
0:31:31.799,0:31:37.069
have as well.[br]Herald Angel: Okay. So, like the two said:
0:31:37.069,0:31:41.470
Assembly Hall 2, just Humans, is the space[br]where you can meet them, where you can ask
0:31:41.470,0:31:44.990
more questions. And thank you once again!
0:31:44.990,0:31:50.010
applause and cheer
0:31:50.010,0:31:52.009
Kathrin: Thanks for having us!
0:31:52.009,0:31:56.829
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0:31:56.829,0:32:14.000
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