0:00:00.030,0:00:05.970
[Applause]

0:00:05.970,0:00:09.600
[Laughter]

0:00:09.600,0:00:13.590
[Rachel Maddow][br]Wow thank you all so much for coming

0:00:13.590,0:00:22.559
[Applause]

0:00:22.570,0:00:24.221
Wow

0:00:25.003,0:00:28.620
Did he say 4,000 people are here?

0:00:30.309,0:00:32.598
[Laughs] This is crazy

0:00:33.908,0:00:38.016
[from audience] We love you Rachel[br][RM ]I love you too, thank you.

0:00:39.568,0:00:42.355
Alright I'm sorry about [br]the whole crutches thing

0:00:42.355,0:00:43.969
I know it's melodramatic, right?

0:00:45.059,0:00:47.628
It's a very boring story [br]or I would tell it

0:00:49.383,0:00:51.493
Thank you all so much for being here.

0:00:52.174,0:00:55.276
This is an overwhelming number of humans

0:00:56.528,0:01:00.403
I am just incredibly honored[br]that you're all here

0:01:00.848,0:01:06.091
I do a show on TV and I know that[br]there are people watching

0:01:06.800,0:01:11.671
but I can't see them[br]and so this is coming face to face

0:01:11.671,0:01:14.265
with something that I really try[br]never to think about,

0:01:14.540,0:01:17.348
which is that a lot of people[br]know what I do

0:01:17.348,0:01:19.020
including the screw-ups every day.

0:01:19.583,0:01:23.201
So as a way to try to minimize the emotion

0:01:23.201,0:01:26.580
I am actually going to change glasses, [br]so that with these glasses on

0:01:26.580,0:01:31.250
I will not be able to see any of you[br]which will make this easier for me.

0:01:31.880,0:01:38.875
All right,okay, so I did not set out[br]to write a book

0:01:38.875,0:01:40.815
about the oil and gas industry

0:01:40.815,0:01:45.238
And I thought: for sure, if I did,[br]no one would want to read it.

0:01:46.493,0:01:48.789
and then this weird thing happened,

0:01:49.050,0:01:51.613
right around the time the book [br]was ready to come out,

0:01:51.613,0:01:54.491
which is that the president[br]started getting impeached

0:01:55.474,0:02:08.856
and [cheers and applause] [br]I didn't do it but I'll take the applause

0:02:08.866,0:02:12.499
and the the thing [br]that really surprised me

0:02:12.499,0:02:16.470
is that this book is coming out[br]and it's kind of about the thing

0:02:16.470,0:02:18.660
for which the president [br]is being impeached .

0:02:19.039,0:02:23.885
And so I had planned -- when [br]I was going to go around

0:02:23.885,0:02:26.229
and talk about the book[br]and do events like this --

0:02:26.229,0:02:29.986
that I would read like the funny section[br]of the book.

0:02:29.986,0:02:33.140
There's a section I really like[br]that I think is kind of funny,

0:02:33.140,0:02:34.959
that's about walruses

0:02:34.959,0:02:39.140
and I was like I go to Chicago,[br]It's going to be this big room

0:02:39.140,0:02:41.885
that's gonna slay, [br]they're gonna love the walruses thing

0:02:42.227,0:02:45.234
because the president [br]is now being impeached, though,

0:02:45.644,0:02:48.320
for something that has to do[br]with the thesis of this book

0:02:48.330,0:02:51.408
I kind of feel like I should read[br]from that part of the book:

0:02:53.499,0:02:57.550
just - in part because I'm really looking[br]forward to this conversation with Allison

0:02:57.550,0:02:59.788
and some of your guys' questions[br]and I feel like maybe

0:02:59.788,0:03:01.951
this would be kind of a good predicate[br]because I have a feeling

0:03:02.150,0:03:03.716
there might be some appetite to talk[br]about that.

0:03:03.716,0:03:06.245
And from the applause a second ago,[br]when I said the word impeachment

0:03:06.245,0:03:12.124
I think I'm right; so all right[br]so I'll read a little bit and then

0:03:12.124,0:03:14.900
I'll just say a little thing[br]and then Allison will come out.

0:03:14.900,0:03:21.629
So here we go: the reason I specifically[br]kind of picked out this part tonight

0:03:21.629,0:03:26.468
is because of those guys [br]who got arrested a couple days ago,

0:03:26.894,0:03:35.389
Lev and Igor, they -- one of the things[br]that was interesting about that --

0:03:35.389,0:03:39.960
so they got arrested and charged with[br]trying to

0:03:39.960,0:03:43.886
funnel illegal campaign donations,

0:03:43.886,0:03:48.449
including illegal foreign-origin[br]Russian campaign donations

0:03:48.449,0:03:55.890
to Republican politicians,both to start[br]a weed business, but also to try to get

0:03:55.910,0:03:58.589
the US ambassador to Ukraine removed,

0:03:59.707,0:04:01.939
as part of a scheme they were working on

0:04:01.939,0:04:04.863
with the President's lawyer[br]Rudy Giuliani.

0:04:06.648,0:04:08.859
And we know from Mr. Giuliani's[br]own account

0:04:08.859,0:04:11.799
that the reason they wanted[br]that ambassador out in Ukraine

0:04:11.799,0:04:13.345
was because she was in the way

0:04:13.345,0:04:17.575
of their scheme to get Ukraine to provide the president

0:04:17.575,0:04:19.000
with dirt he could use against the

0:04:19.000,0:04:20.680
Democrats in the 2020 election which is

0:04:20.680,0:04:23.050
what he's now being impeached for so it

0:04:23.050,0:04:26.800
all kind of ties but I thought it was it

0:04:26.800,0:04:28.960
was interesting and like weird given the

0:04:28.960,0:04:32.110
book that when those guys got arrested

0:04:32.110,0:04:33.610
remember they got arrested at Dulles

0:04:33.610,0:04:38.159
Airport and we think they moved up the

0:04:38.159,0:04:40.990
indictment so that they could hurry up

0:04:40.990,0:04:43.240
the arrests because they had one-way

0:04:43.240,0:04:46.030
tickets out of the country and so they

0:04:46.030,0:04:47.320
went and they swooped in and they got

0:04:47.320,0:04:50.259
them at Dulles and they brought them to

0:04:50.259,0:04:52.479
the nearest federal courthouse the

0:04:52.479,0:04:53.650
relevant federal courthouse if you're

0:04:53.650,0:04:55.300
ever arrested at Dulles Airport trying

0:04:55.300,0:04:57.150
to flee the country as news you can use

0:04:57.150,0:05:00.550
is the Eastern District of Virginia and

0:05:00.550,0:05:02.139
so they've got brought in for their

0:05:02.139,0:05:03.550
initial court hearing at the Eastern

0:05:03.550,0:05:05.229
District of Virginia and the weirdest

0:05:05.229,0:05:06.580
thing happened

0:05:06.580,0:05:12.370
they got Paul manna Ford's lawyers what

0:05:12.370,0:05:14.889
were they doing there what's your

0:05:14.889,0:05:18.759
connection to all this did you guys know

0:05:18.759,0:05:23.880
each other before so that was weird

0:05:26.230,0:05:29.030
mr. Giuliani also says that one of the

0:05:29.030,0:05:30.770
people who he's been working on this

0:05:30.770,0:05:34.250
scheme with the one that the president

0:05:34.250,0:05:36.830
is going to get impeached for the person

0:05:36.830,0:05:38.690
who was giving him strategic advice on

0:05:38.690,0:05:40.760
what the president might be able to

0:05:40.760,0:05:43.250
solicit from Ukraine to help him in his

0:05:43.250,0:05:45.020
next election one of the people he has

0:05:45.020,0:05:47.330
been consulting with on this is Paul

0:05:47.330,0:05:49.580
Manafort who is the president's campaign

0:05:49.580,0:05:51.650
chairman but currently is a federal

0:05:51.650,0:05:56.690
inmate and apparently mr. Giuliani has

0:05:56.690,0:06:01.610
been working with him so there's the

0:06:01.610,0:06:04.220
guys who are in jail now who have just

0:06:04.220,0:06:06.530
been arrested and indicted there's the

0:06:06.530,0:06:08.270
other guy who's serving a federal prison

0:06:08.270,0:06:10.070
sentence those are those are the first

0:06:10.070,0:06:12.080
three guys Giuliani is working with on

0:06:12.080,0:06:15.340
this scheme and then there's another guy

0:06:15.340,0:06:18.380
because when they got arrested at Dulles

0:06:18.380,0:06:20.300
they had these one-way tickets and they

0:06:20.300,0:06:21.950
were to Frankfurt but they didn't say

0:06:21.950,0:06:23.240
that they were planning on staying in

0:06:23.240,0:06:24.410
Frankfurt they were going to transit

0:06:24.410,0:06:26.090
through there and mr. Giuliani again

0:06:26.090,0:06:29.930
always helpful told a reporter for the

0:06:29.930,0:06:31.900
Atlantic that where they were going was

0:06:31.900,0:06:35.690
Vienna Austria and he was also on his

0:06:35.690,0:06:38.510
way to Vienna Austria but they weren't

0:06:38.510,0:06:41.140
going together it was just coincidence

0:06:41.140,0:06:46.460
and we now know that the reason they

0:06:46.460,0:06:49.130
were going to Vienna Austria is because

0:06:49.130,0:06:51.590
they were at least either Lev or Igor I

0:06:51.590,0:06:53.510
can't tell them apart yet by next week I

0:06:53.510,0:06:57.860
will have it one of them was working for

0:06:57.860,0:07:00.830
a guy whose name is Dmitri firtash who's

0:07:00.830,0:07:05.300
in the book and what has emerged

0:07:05.300,0:07:07.070
actually what he merged last night which

0:07:07.070,0:07:09.020
is why I'm going to read this today is

0:07:09.020,0:07:11.150
Reuters how to report that Dmitri

0:07:11.150,0:07:14.750
firtash who is not in prison but is

0:07:14.750,0:07:17.270
under arrest and out on bail and

0:07:17.270,0:07:18.440
fighting extradition to the United

0:07:18.440,0:07:20.840
States where US prosecutors say that

0:07:20.840,0:07:22.340
he's an upper echelon associate of

0:07:22.340,0:07:24.140
Russian organized crime and he's wanted

0:07:24.140,0:07:26.060
on a multibillion-dollar fraud scheme

0:07:26.060,0:07:28.340
Dmitri firtash is the one who has

0:07:28.340,0:07:29.720
apparently according to Reuters been

0:07:29.720,0:07:32.750
financing Lev and Igor in their latest

0:07:32.750,0:07:36.440
exploits it may it also is starting to

0:07:36.440,0:07:38.300
appear like maybe Dmitri firtash is the

0:07:38.300,0:07:39.360
one who was paying Rudi

0:07:39.360,0:07:43.590
for this work through love and Igor and

0:07:43.590,0:07:45.509
like I said us prosecutors believe he's

0:07:45.509,0:07:47.069
an upper echelon associate of Russian

0:07:47.069,0:07:49.919
organized crime so I feel like it's all

0:07:49.919,0:07:54.330
coming together and the president is

0:07:54.330,0:07:56.879
gonna get impeached for this stuff but

0:07:56.879,0:08:00.060
all of the people who are apparently

0:08:00.060,0:08:04.469
were involved in in all of the people

0:08:04.469,0:08:05.580
who were apparently involved in hooking

0:08:05.580,0:08:07.560
them up with this are either in jail in

0:08:07.560,0:08:11.870
prison or fighting extradition plus Rudy

0:08:11.870,0:08:15.900
and so I feel like I have to talk about

0:08:15.900,0:08:19.169
this stuff now quick because well once

0:08:19.169,0:08:22.169
they're all in jail it's gonna be harder

0:08:22.169,0:08:24.569
to get more of the story out so anyway

0:08:24.569,0:08:25.620
that's the back that's the background

0:08:25.620,0:08:27.330
the immediate news background which I

0:08:27.330,0:08:28.740
think makes this relevant all right

0:08:28.740,0:08:31.979
the biggest threat Putin had to keep it

0:08:31.979,0:08:35.190
BAE was the prospect of strong rich

0:08:35.190,0:08:38.130
stable western-oriented democracies in

0:08:38.130,0:08:41.070
Russia's near abroad that sort of thing

0:08:41.070,0:08:42.990
could not only challenge or constrain

0:08:42.990,0:08:44.880
Russia's regional power it could

0:08:44.880,0:08:47.820
conceivably the horror inspire the

0:08:47.820,0:08:50.070
Russian people themselves leading them

0:08:50.070,0:08:52.680
to demand a democratic say in their own

0:08:52.680,0:08:55.709
government as well the solution was

0:08:55.709,0:08:58.170
simple use Russian natural gas and oil

0:08:58.170,0:09:00.149
not only to make money for the Russian

0:09:00.149,0:09:01.980
state but also to keep neighboring

0:09:01.980,0:09:04.980
countries corrupt and dependent it

0:09:04.980,0:09:07.320
solved so many problems it reduced

0:09:07.320,0:09:09.420
expectations for democratic governance

0:09:09.420,0:09:11.610
and the rule of law in those countries

0:09:11.610,0:09:14.010
it created a corruptly empowered

0:09:14.010,0:09:16.290
political class invested in preserving

0:09:16.290,0:09:18.839
the Russia dependent system that

0:09:18.839,0:09:20.790
enriched both its practitioners and

0:09:20.790,0:09:23.760
oftentimes also their families it also

0:09:23.760,0:09:26.190
created comfortable space for organized

0:09:26.190,0:09:29.250
crime to flourish the Russian government

0:09:29.250,0:09:31.050
under Vladimir Putin's control has

0:09:31.050,0:09:33.180
steadily become more integrated with all

0:09:33.180,0:09:35.100
kinds of transnational organized crime

0:09:35.100,0:09:37.920
in the former Soviet sphere and not just

0:09:37.920,0:09:40.199
because Putin has tended to attract the

0:09:40.199,0:09:42.449
kinds of broken nose Tufts who would

0:09:42.449,0:09:44.730
otherwise be called henchmen if Putin

0:09:44.730,0:09:46.850
hadn't made them so rich

0:09:46.850,0:09:49.740
the beauty of putin's ever deepening

0:09:49.740,0:09:52.170
kinship with the mob was that it gave

0:09:52.170,0:09:53.130
him a whole other

0:09:53.130,0:09:55.050
of levers with which to settle problems

0:09:55.050,0:09:57.020
and to make problematic people go away

0:09:57.020,0:09:59.550
whenever it might be unseemly to wield

0:09:59.550,0:10:03.650
the overt powers of the state and so

0:10:03.650,0:10:06.210
Putin's team in the Kremlin was

0:10:06.210,0:10:09.300
delighted to utilize a man like Dimitri

0:10:09.300,0:10:12.330
firtash Dimitri for attaches special

0:10:12.330,0:10:15.060
skills could be used to shape Ukraine

0:10:15.060,0:10:17.520
more to the Kremlin's liking to turn it

0:10:17.520,0:10:19.110
from its increasingly worrying

0:10:19.110,0:10:20.850
flirtation with the West with the work

0:10:20.850,0:10:22.770
with the European Union with Oh God

0:10:22.770,0:10:26.040
maybe even NATO so the Kremlin cut

0:10:26.040,0:10:29.030
firtash a sweetheart deal in Ukraine

0:10:29.030,0:10:31.260
virata's new company was given the

0:10:31.260,0:10:33.420
exclusive right to buy gas from Russia

0:10:33.420,0:10:36.030
to sell to Ukraine at a very large

0:10:36.030,0:10:38.460
profit about eight hundred million

0:10:38.460,0:10:41.550
dollars in clear profit in the year 2007

0:10:41.550,0:10:45.210
alone now Ukraine could just as easily

0:10:45.210,0:10:47.610
have bought the gas with no middleman

0:10:47.610,0:10:50.700
and no markup but Putin wanted both the

0:10:50.700,0:10:53.970
middleman and the markup it cost Gazprom

0:10:53.970,0:10:56.070
the Russian natural gas company a pretty

0:10:56.070,0:10:58.200
penny basically straight out of Russian

0:10:58.200,0:11:00.570
government coffers but it was worth it

0:11:00.570,0:11:03.060
firtash as well as some of Putin's other

0:11:03.060,0:11:05.670
Ukrainian oligarchs would have plenty of

0:11:05.670,0:11:08.640
cash to spread around to shape Ukraine

0:11:08.640,0:11:11.850
in ways that Putin would appreciate some

0:11:11.850,0:11:13.770
of that cash did go back to Moscow as

0:11:13.770,0:11:16.260
tribute but even more of it went to prop

0:11:16.260,0:11:18.650
up something called the Party of Regions

0:11:18.650,0:11:20.910
which meant a whole bunch of that money

0:11:20.910,0:11:22.620
passed through or ended up in the

0:11:22.620,0:11:24.810
offshore bank accounts of the mercenary

0:11:24.810,0:11:27.120
American political operative named Paul

0:11:27.120,0:11:31.200
Manafort Paul Manafort helped the Moscow

0:11:31.200,0:11:33.390
friendly party of regions when a solid

0:11:33.390,0:11:35.760
plurality in the 2006 parliamentary

0:11:35.760,0:11:37.710
elections in Ukraine and then he spent

0:11:37.710,0:11:40.020
the next few years dinging Ukraine's

0:11:40.020,0:11:42.600
strongest opposition leaders including

0:11:42.600,0:11:44.730
those from the orange party Prime

0:11:44.730,0:11:46.620
Minister Yulia Tymoshenko was a prime

0:11:46.620,0:11:47.250
target

0:11:47.250,0:11:49.680
Timoshenko was a particular threat to

0:11:49.680,0:11:52.500
Moscow's influence in Ukraine she had

0:11:52.500,0:11:54.180
made herself the front-runner in the

0:11:54.180,0:11:57.210
2010 presidential election by seizing on

0:11:57.210,0:12:00.030
that sweetheart gas deal that Dmitri

0:12:00.030,0:12:02.190
firtash got from the Kremlin she

0:12:02.190,0:12:04.230
promised to end that deal she made a

0:12:04.230,0:12:06.640
good case why on earth should

0:12:06.640,0:12:08.740
firtash his company should anybody's

0:12:08.740,0:12:11.950
company be allowed to siphon off 800

0:12:11.950,0:12:14.589
million dollars in a single year by

0:12:14.589,0:12:16.720
doing nothing by just playing this

0:12:16.720,0:12:18.940
middleman role that nobody needed nobody

0:12:18.940,0:12:20.130
asked for

0:12:20.130,0:12:22.600
well manna fort and his team went right

0:12:22.600,0:12:24.820
at prime minister Tymoshenko with full

0:12:24.820,0:12:25.180
force

0:12:25.180,0:12:27.130
they helped drive down her approval

0:12:27.130,0:12:30.010
ratings to 20% six months before that

0:12:30.010,0:12:33.209
2010 presidential election even when she

0:12:33.209,0:12:36.100
renegotiated the russia-ukraine natural

0:12:36.100,0:12:39.010
gas deal in 2009 she actually got rid of

0:12:39.010,0:12:41.290
that deal she cut firtash out she got

0:12:41.290,0:12:43.380
rid of that middleman even her

0:12:43.380,0:12:46.149
renegotiation of that deal wasn't enough

0:12:46.149,0:12:49.329
to sway a majority of voters to her mana

0:12:49.329,0:12:52.329
forts guy Yanukovych squeezed by her and

0:12:52.329,0:12:56.019
into the presidency in 2010 mana fort

0:12:56.019,0:12:58.120
received much credit for the ANA Kovich

0:12:58.120,0:13:00.190
victory and he got a rich new contract

0:13:00.190,0:13:01.720
as the new Ukrainian president's

0:13:01.720,0:13:04.360
off-site political adviser and he got

0:13:04.360,0:13:06.850
right to work one of Yanukovych his

0:13:06.850,0:13:08.769
first acts as Ukraine's new president

0:13:08.769,0:13:11.399
was to SiC a rabid state prosecutor on

0:13:11.399,0:13:15.720
Yulia Tymoshenko lock her up

0:13:15.720,0:13:17.800
Yanukovych's prosecutor charged

0:13:17.800,0:13:20.740
Timoshenko with the crime of abusing her

0:13:20.740,0:13:24.070
official powers by illegally arranging

0:13:24.070,0:13:27.130
the new firtash free gas deal between

0:13:27.130,0:13:30.040
Russia and Ukraine the accused her of

0:13:30.040,0:13:32.529
corruption for having gotten rid of that

0:13:32.529,0:13:37.480
corrupt deal Timoshenko had a lot of

0:13:37.480,0:13:39.370
sympathy in the United States and Europe

0:13:39.370,0:13:41.699
so mana fork got right to work on a

0:13:41.699,0:13:44.350
multi-part expensive public relations

0:13:44.350,0:13:47.110
campaign to destroy her reputation in

0:13:47.110,0:13:49.680
Ukraine and also in the United States

0:13:49.680,0:13:51.640
but they brought those corruption

0:13:51.640,0:13:53.709
charges against her they prosecuted her

0:13:53.709,0:13:55.540
they convicted her and they locked her

0:13:55.540,0:13:59.050
up and with Timoshenko stashed in prison

0:13:59.050,0:14:01.839
trashed by the American PR firms and

0:14:01.839,0:14:03.820
American law firms that mana fort paid

0:14:03.820,0:14:06.250
for Russia's men in Ukraine

0:14:06.250,0:14:09.790
mob-connected Dmitry firtash got back

0:14:09.790,0:14:11.949
into the gas deal which was better than

0:14:11.949,0:14:13.899
ever his company's operating profit for

0:14:13.899,0:14:16.480
the years 2012 and 2013 added up to

0:14:16.480,0:14:20.200
nearly four billion dollars

0:14:20.200,0:14:21.820
with that kind of money available for

0:14:21.820,0:14:23.890
corrupting any actual governance in the

0:14:23.890,0:14:25.080
interests of the people of Ukraine

0:14:25.080,0:14:27.940
Putin's natural gas supply there hovered

0:14:27.940,0:14:29.170
over the heads of the Ukrainian people

0:14:29.170,0:14:32.800
like a sword Putin could tell things

0:14:32.800,0:14:34.900
were going well when Yanukovych were an

0:14:34.900,0:14:36.940
egg Don his campaign promised to move

0:14:36.940,0:14:38.860
Ukraine toward greater cooperation with

0:14:38.860,0:14:41.890
possibly even membership in the European

0:14:41.890,0:14:42.430
Union

0:14:42.430,0:14:44.860
Putin knew that wouldn't that couldn't

0:14:44.860,0:14:47.530
ever happen the problem was the

0:14:47.530,0:14:49.180
Ukrainian people appeared to really like

0:14:49.180,0:14:52.000
the idea even when Putin promised 15

0:14:52.000,0:14:53.980
billion dollars worth of new aid to

0:14:53.980,0:14:56.050
Ukraine the will of the Ukrainian people

0:14:56.050,0:14:59.080
was clear they wanted the EU no matter

0:14:59.080,0:15:02.320
Putin's largesse and the orange side

0:15:02.320,0:15:04.630
revolted again what started on November

0:15:04.630,0:15:07.450
21st 2013 as a small demonstration in

0:15:07.450,0:15:09.370
the main square in Kiev and the Madonn

0:15:09.370,0:15:12.150
grew in just a few days to another

0:15:12.150,0:15:15.400
100,000 person protests the

0:15:15.400,0:15:17.230
demonstrators took over the square and

0:15:17.230,0:15:19.780
refused to leave a violent crackdown by

0:15:19.780,0:15:21.190
police in the last days of November

0:15:21.190,0:15:24.190
didn't quell the enthusiasm in the face

0:15:24.190,0:15:26.680
of Yanukovych's armed security forces

0:15:26.680,0:15:29.530
determined protesters strapped on pots

0:15:29.530,0:15:32.830
and pans as makeshift armored and they

0:15:32.830,0:15:34.810
took to the streets and the crowds kept

0:15:34.810,0:15:37.900
on coming and growing this lasted

0:15:37.900,0:15:40.600
through November through December putin

0:15:40.600,0:15:42.580
thought the cold Kiev January would

0:15:42.580,0:15:44.470
break the crowd if the security forces

0:15:44.470,0:15:48.190
could not he was wrong in February as

0:15:48.190,0:15:50.830
the Sochi Olympics kicked off they were

0:15:50.830,0:15:53.170
still there by the tens of thousands

0:15:53.170,0:15:55.900
wearing their makeshift 21st century

0:15:55.900,0:15:59.020
defensive kitchen where huddled for

0:15:59.020,0:16:01.690
warmth around trash can fires the

0:16:01.690,0:16:03.340
protest had morphed from a demonstration

0:16:03.340,0:16:05.140
about the EU question into a

0:16:05.140,0:16:07.540
demonstration about democracy itself the

0:16:07.540,0:16:10.330
will of the governed Ukrainians were

0:16:10.330,0:16:13.530
calling it the revolution of dignity the

0:16:13.530,0:16:15.460
demonstrators in Kiev were gaining

0:16:15.460,0:16:18.880
courage in numbers and on February 18

0:16:18.880,0:16:22.290
2014 they armed themselves with

0:16:22.290,0:16:25.960
slingshots and braved a gauntlet of

0:16:25.960,0:16:28.840
Yanukovych's armed security forces and

0:16:28.840,0:16:31.110
they marched on the Ukrainian Parliament

0:16:31.110,0:16:34.040
when Yanukovych is security forces

0:16:34.040,0:16:35.540
started killing protesters that

0:16:35.540,0:16:37.820
afternoon the crowds retreated to their

0:16:37.820,0:16:39.889
barricades in the Madonn and remained

0:16:39.889,0:16:41.259
there through a terrifying night

0:16:41.259,0:16:45.079
protected by a ring of fire Yanukovych's

0:16:45.079,0:16:47.149
security forces broke out machine guns

0:16:47.149,0:16:50.389
they scrambled rooftop snipers the next

0:16:50.389,0:16:53.149
day and the civilian casualty list just

0:16:53.149,0:16:54.910
kept growing and growing

0:16:54.910,0:16:57.620
one defiant protesters standing behind a

0:16:57.620,0:16:59.480
makeshift shield wearing a plastic

0:16:59.480,0:17:02.660
helmet and a surgical mask yelled we are

0:17:02.660,0:17:05.780
not afraid to die for freedom freedom is

0:17:05.780,0:17:09.260
for us freedom is ours we will win and

0:17:09.260,0:17:11.089
Ukraine will be part of Europe and

0:17:11.089,0:17:12.980
Ukraine will be part of the free world

0:17:12.980,0:17:15.349
and we'll never be slaves we will be

0:17:15.349,0:17:16.689
free

0:17:16.689,0:17:18.740
Putin watched it all with a growing

0:17:18.740,0:17:21.349
sense of dread and a growing sense of

0:17:21.349,0:17:23.599
anger here at his doorstep was the

0:17:23.599,0:17:26.480
Western conspiracy America was the cause

0:17:26.480,0:17:30.140
of all of this mess he was sure the last

0:17:30.140,0:17:33.200
little bit I'm gonna read on the eve of

0:17:33.200,0:17:35.919
the final day of the Sochi Olympics

0:17:35.919,0:17:38.960
Yanukovych not lost his nerve he called

0:17:38.960,0:17:41.210
off his security forces he turned tail

0:17:41.210,0:17:43.940
and ran he gave over Kiev and the

0:17:43.940,0:17:45.140
federal government to the orange

0:17:45.140,0:17:47.330
revolutionaries the Ukrainian Parliament

0:17:47.330,0:17:50.360
met in an emergency session legislators

0:17:50.360,0:17:52.460
voted Yanukovych out of office in

0:17:52.460,0:17:55.130
absentia they ordered the immediate

0:17:55.130,0:17:58.130
release of Yulia Tymoshenko and she was

0:17:58.130,0:18:01.580
freed and they voted to refer Yanukovych

0:18:01.580,0:18:03.440
to the International Criminal Court to

0:18:03.440,0:18:06.460
answer for crimes against humanity

0:18:06.460,0:18:08.809
Yanukovych resurfaced a few days later

0:18:08.809,0:18:12.380
in a Party of Regions stronghold in the

0:18:12.380,0:18:13.850
Russia friendly eastern part of the

0:18:13.850,0:18:16.190
country but he ran into protests even

0:18:16.190,0:18:18.470
there thousands of his countrymen faced

0:18:18.470,0:18:20.299
him down right there on his home streets

0:18:20.299,0:18:22.730
chanting Ukraine is not Russia

0:18:22.730,0:18:25.309
Ukraine is not Russia Ukraine is not

0:18:25.309,0:18:30.770
Russia Yanukovych fled to Moscow Putin

0:18:30.770,0:18:33.260
was done trying to make nice he'd had it

0:18:33.260,0:18:35.059
with the United States he was sure it

0:18:35.059,0:18:37.340
was the United States meddling on his

0:18:37.340,0:18:41.299
turf vice president Joseph R Biden had

0:18:41.299,0:18:43.059
been in and out of Kiev for years

0:18:43.059,0:18:45.260
insisting that the Obama administration

0:18:45.260,0:18:47.620
would protect Ukraine from Russia

0:18:47.620,0:18:51.130
Biden said we do not recognize and I

0:18:51.130,0:18:53.800
want to reiterate it we do not recognize

0:18:53.800,0:18:58.210
any sphere of influence and he followed

0:18:58.210,0:19:00.090
that up with what sounded like an insult

0:19:00.090,0:19:03.280
the Russians he said have a shrinking

0:19:03.280,0:19:05.380
population base they have a withering

0:19:05.380,0:19:07.570
economy they have a banking sector and

0:19:07.570,0:19:09.100
structure that's not likely to be able

0:19:09.100,0:19:11.770
to withstand the next 15 years they are

0:19:11.770,0:19:13.360
in a situation where the world is

0:19:13.360,0:19:15.340
changing before them and they are

0:19:15.340,0:19:17.350
clinging to something in the past that

0:19:17.350,0:19:19.740
is not sustainable

0:19:19.740,0:19:26.560
Putin sort of took it personally so the

0:19:26.560,0:19:28.540
good news is I scheduled a book tour and

0:19:28.540,0:19:29.830
the publication of the book for the time

0:19:29.830,0:19:36.880
when nothing is going on and I'm looking

0:19:36.880,0:19:38.320
forward to talking a little bit tonight

0:19:38.320,0:19:40.120
about how I do think that the oil and

0:19:40.120,0:19:41.560
gas industry and its influence

0:19:41.560,0:19:43.840
particularly how it works in the part of

0:19:43.840,0:19:45.370
the world that is now an area of such

0:19:45.370,0:19:47.290
focus for us I do think that links to

0:19:47.290,0:19:48.760
the current impeachment crisis and I'm

0:19:48.760,0:19:49.960
looking forward to talking about that

0:19:49.960,0:19:52.780
but in terms of where this came from

0:19:52.780,0:19:54.460
like I said at the top I did not set out

0:19:54.460,0:19:56.170
to write a book about this industry I

0:19:56.170,0:19:57.580
didn't start off knowing anything about

0:19:57.580,0:20:00.040
this industry and people who know a lot

0:20:00.040,0:20:01.390
about the industry probably think I

0:20:01.390,0:20:05.140
still don't know anything but I I had

0:20:05.140,0:20:06.820
two things that I was really stuck on

0:20:06.820,0:20:10.980
and they both led me to this and one was

0:20:10.980,0:20:15.040
this thing that I feel like we probably

0:20:15.040,0:20:17.620
didn't know any of us in our lifetimes

0:20:17.620,0:20:19.240
is going to become the fight of our

0:20:19.240,0:20:22.930
lifetimes which is the fight between the

0:20:22.930,0:20:26.170
rule of law between democratic rule of

0:20:26.170,0:20:29.790
law liberal democracy and

0:20:29.790,0:20:34.620
authoritarianism and to be facing

0:20:34.620,0:20:37.570
structural and serious and potentially

0:20:37.570,0:20:39.490
existential threats to our own democracy

0:20:39.490,0:20:42.190
at home is sort of shocking enough I

0:20:42.190,0:20:45.180
think for us as Americans but to see

0:20:45.180,0:20:48.640
clearly that this is happening to us at

0:20:48.640,0:20:50.290
a time when democracy is in decline

0:20:50.290,0:20:52.480
around the world and authoritarianism is

0:20:52.480,0:20:54.760
on the rise around the world I think

0:20:54.760,0:20:58.180
should be centering for us it should

0:20:58.180,0:21:00.610
make us realize that however America

0:21:00.610,0:21:04.000
exceptionalism may function in our lives

0:21:04.000,0:21:06.100
and in our foreign policy there are

0:21:06.100,0:21:08.980
times in life and there are times in the

0:21:08.980,0:21:11.650
evolution of Nations when bold strong

0:21:11.650,0:21:13.840
patriotic citizens can learn a lot from

0:21:13.840,0:21:15.280
people in other countries who have gone

0:21:15.280,0:21:17.290
through this too and I think we have a

0:21:17.290,0:21:19.030
lot of fellowship around the world right

0:21:19.030,0:21:20.500
now with a lot of people who are trying

0:21:20.500,0:21:22.480
to figure out how to do this right and

0:21:22.480,0:21:25.840
in thinking about trying to contribute

0:21:25.840,0:21:27.549
something meaningful e to this

0:21:27.549,0:21:29.559
discussion something meaningful to this

0:21:29.559,0:21:31.360
discussion about authoritarianism versus

0:21:31.360,0:21:33.520
the rule of law I felt like I'd heard a

0:21:33.520,0:21:36.730
lot of generic statements about

0:21:36.730,0:21:38.140
democracy being good and

0:21:38.140,0:21:40.720
authoritarianism being bad and generic

0:21:40.720,0:21:42.610
statements about needing to fight for it

0:21:42.610,0:21:44.440
and I felt like I wanted to get more

0:21:44.440,0:21:48.429
specific and I think part of trying to

0:21:48.429,0:21:50.260
shore up something that's at risk is

0:21:50.260,0:21:53.650
figuring out what's hurting it figuring

0:21:53.650,0:21:56.559
out what is within our culture within

0:21:56.559,0:22:01.390
our economy within our political sphere

0:22:01.390,0:22:04.000
that is sapping the strength of

0:22:04.000,0:22:05.620
democracy that's making it feel like a

0:22:05.620,0:22:07.660
sham to so many people that's making

0:22:07.660,0:22:10.059
strongman politics seem more attractive

0:22:10.059,0:22:13.330
and I think you need to talk about big

0:22:13.330,0:22:15.090
business when you talk about that I

0:22:15.090,0:22:18.730
think the other thing that led me to

0:22:18.730,0:22:20.740
this topic is something that you're

0:22:20.740,0:22:23.080
probably less surprised by if you've

0:22:23.080,0:22:24.669
ever seen the show which is that I'm

0:22:24.669,0:22:28.299
kind of obsessed with Russia which I

0:22:28.299,0:22:36.760
make no apologies for and but in all of

0:22:36.760,0:22:38.200
the coverage that I've done and all the

0:22:38.200,0:22:39.549
coverage that everybody in the media has

0:22:39.549,0:22:41.410
done about what happened in 2016 in

0:22:41.410,0:22:43.030
terms of our election I was really stuck

0:22:43.030,0:22:44.860
trying to figure out the motive force

0:22:44.860,0:22:49.750
for why why Russia did what it did in

0:22:49.750,0:22:51.669
part because what they did was weird

0:22:51.669,0:22:54.309
right there's like a guy who's connected

0:22:54.309,0:22:56.440
to the Kremlin who runs like a social

0:22:56.440,0:22:58.720
media factory that sounds like it's no

0:22:58.720,0:23:01.480
fun and they're making they're creating

0:23:01.480,0:23:03.820
fake American avatars and pretending to

0:23:03.820,0:23:05.500
be Facebook groups that don't exist and

0:23:05.500,0:23:07.270
then tricking Americans into going to

0:23:07.270,0:23:09.669
demonstrations and also they're stealing

0:23:09.669,0:23:12.220
Democratic Party risotto recipes and

0:23:12.220,0:23:13.560
publishing them

0:23:13.560,0:23:16.220
the name gusoff er 2.0 like what is this

0:23:16.220,0:23:18.810
why is this happening and is why is it

0:23:18.810,0:23:20.160
happening in this way these are odd

0:23:20.160,0:23:24.270
tactics but also what's the risk and we

0:23:24.270,0:23:26.400
risk and reward balance for Russia and

0:23:26.400,0:23:29.160
this I mean as best as we can tell

0:23:29.160,0:23:30.690
Russia seems to have thought that

0:23:30.690,0:23:33.000
Hillary Clinton was gonna win too I mean

0:23:33.000,0:23:34.080
they were doing their best to make sure

0:23:34.080,0:23:35.340
that wasn't gonna happen but I think

0:23:35.340,0:23:37.850
they still thought she was gonna win and

0:23:37.850,0:23:40.110
if she had won

0:23:40.110,0:23:42.390
I mean Secretary Clinton was already a

0:23:42.390,0:23:44.310
hawk on Russia imagine if she'd come

0:23:44.310,0:23:46.530
into the presidency with Russia having

0:23:46.530,0:23:50.130
just taken this swing at her in our

0:23:50.130,0:23:53.010
election to try to hurt her as president

0:23:53.010,0:23:56.430
and to try to install her opponent had

0:23:56.430,0:23:58.080
she become president they had to have

0:23:58.080,0:23:59.610
known that things were probably going to

0:23:59.610,0:24:03.030
go pear-shaped really fast but yet it

0:24:03.030,0:24:05.850
was still worth it for them to try very

0:24:05.850,0:24:09.300
very very very high-risk something that

0:24:09.300,0:24:11.930
almost smacks of desperation

0:24:11.930,0:24:15.840
well what I arrived at pretty quickly is

0:24:15.840,0:24:17.580
that I think it's hard to understand

0:24:17.580,0:24:19.080
Russia's own motivation in the world

0:24:19.080,0:24:20.790
without understanding that their economy

0:24:20.790,0:24:25.230
really sucks Russia is the biggest

0:24:25.230,0:24:26.910
landmass of any country on earth they've

0:24:26.910,0:24:28.500
got a hundred and fifty million people

0:24:28.500,0:24:30.450
which is really big I mean Germany's

0:24:30.450,0:24:32.520
eighty-five million people the UK 70

0:24:32.520,0:24:34.380
million people Italy's 60 million people

0:24:34.380,0:24:36.450
South Korea 50 million people brush is a

0:24:36.450,0:24:37.980
hundred and fifty million people they've

0:24:37.980,0:24:40.490
got an economy smaller than Italy's

0:24:40.490,0:24:42.780
smaller than South Korea's triple the

0:24:42.780,0:24:44.820
population and the same and a smaller

0:24:44.820,0:24:50.370
economy and that itself is something

0:24:50.370,0:24:53.070
that Russian politicians are the answer

0:24:53.070,0:24:56.430
for but it gets you to sort of the next

0:24:56.430,0:24:58.170
question well why is their economy so

0:24:58.170,0:25:00.750
bad especially when they float on a sea

0:25:00.750,0:25:04.680
of oil and gas generally speaking it

0:25:04.680,0:25:06.870
turns out that oil and gas is a terrible

0:25:06.870,0:25:08.730
thing on which to build your economy and

0:25:08.730,0:25:11.340
that's part of what went wrong in Russia

0:25:11.340,0:25:12.690
that's part of a bad gamble that

0:25:12.690,0:25:14.670
Vladimir Putin made very early on in his

0:25:14.670,0:25:17.430
presidency the other thing though that I

0:25:17.430,0:25:19.970
think is important is that oil and gas

0:25:19.970,0:25:22.350
not only isn't a good thing to build

0:25:22.350,0:25:25.320
your economy on the oil and gas industry

0:25:25.320,0:25:26.910
when it's big enough it kind of makes it

0:25:26.910,0:25:29.880
political weather one thing they're

0:25:29.880,0:25:31.620
actually really for all the things

0:25:31.620,0:25:33.570
they're not good at like they are for

0:25:33.570,0:25:35.160
example not good at cleaning up after

0:25:35.160,0:25:38.970
themselves really like paper towels is

0:25:38.970,0:25:40.590
still like the apex of what they have to

0:25:40.590,0:25:43.350
offer in terms of oil spills I mean

0:25:43.350,0:25:45.030
they're fancy very expensive paper

0:25:45.030,0:25:46.800
towels but it's paper towels that's what

0:25:46.800,0:25:49.410
they use for all the things they are not

0:25:49.410,0:25:50.490
that good at they're not good at

0:25:50.490,0:25:51.810
cleaning up after themselves they're not

0:25:51.810,0:25:53.700
good at sailing to Alaska they're not

0:25:53.700,0:25:54.930
good at all sorts of stuff you think

0:25:54.930,0:25:57.180
they'd be good at but one thing they're

0:25:57.180,0:25:58.860
really good at is getting governments of

0:25:58.860,0:26:00.810
all shapes and sizes to serve them to

0:26:00.810,0:26:02.760
serve their interests as an industry in

0:26:02.760,0:26:04.470
a way that tends to Hubble the ability

0:26:04.470,0:26:05.580
of that government to do a good job

0:26:05.580,0:26:07.440
serving any other responsible purpose

0:26:07.440,0:26:10.050
and that dynamic to me ended up being

0:26:10.050,0:26:13.350
fascinated fascinating setting aside

0:26:13.350,0:26:15.690
whatever might be bad for your country

0:26:15.690,0:26:17.580
in terms of having oil and gas

0:26:17.580,0:26:19.530
production there what we see over and

0:26:19.530,0:26:20.940
over and over again is that where oil

0:26:20.940,0:26:23.820
revenues flow government tends to suffer

0:26:23.820,0:26:26.280
and that's true even when it's tons of

0:26:26.280,0:26:29.910
oil revenues the founding energy

0:26:29.910,0:26:33.660
minister of Saudi Arabia says and I

0:26:33.660,0:26:36.390
quote all in all I wish we'd discovered

0:26:36.390,0:26:41.100
water the founder of OPEC says as far as

0:26:41.100,0:26:44.220
he can tell oil is quote the excrement

0:26:44.220,0:26:49.470
of the devil the founder of OPEC not

0:26:49.470,0:26:51.840
only says that oil is poop but oil is

0:26:51.840,0:26:54.210
the devil's poop it's like there's

0:26:54.210,0:26:57.090
definitely a book there right I don't I

0:26:57.090,0:26:58.380
don't know what else is gonna be in the

0:26:58.380,0:27:02.430
book but that is in the book and you

0:27:02.430,0:27:04.860
know oil companies are full of regular

0:27:04.860,0:27:07.050
people doing regular jobs both myself

0:27:07.050,0:27:09.780
and my partner Susan we both have family

0:27:09.780,0:27:11.160
members close family members have worked

0:27:11.160,0:27:12.450
in the oil industry it's nothing

0:27:12.450,0:27:13.110
personal

0:27:13.110,0:27:14.850
whatsoever but this is an industry that

0:27:14.850,0:27:19.260
is sort of nuking the planet 76 percent

0:27:19.260,0:27:20.760
of carbon emissions in the United States

0:27:20.760,0:27:22.410
are from burning oil or burning natural

0:27:22.410,0:27:24.480
gas it's basically we're the biggest

0:27:24.480,0:27:26.070
economy on earth you're talking about

0:27:26.070,0:27:27.330
more than three-quarters of our

0:27:27.330,0:27:28.560
emissions that's the big enchilada

0:27:28.560,0:27:29.870
that's it

0:27:29.870,0:27:34.230
oil and gas does also prop up terrible

0:27:34.230,0:27:36.000
governments around the world and they

0:27:36.000,0:27:38.010
weaken democratic accountable governance

0:27:38.010,0:27:38.790
everywhere

0:27:38.790,0:27:41.070
they operate I think on Russia

0:27:41.070,0:27:42.570
specifically it is also worth

0:27:42.570,0:27:44.580
understanding how much of a lifeline the

0:27:44.580,0:27:46.440
big majors of the oil industry and

0:27:46.440,0:27:48.810
ExxonMobil in particular how much of a

0:27:48.810,0:27:50.610
lifeline they have been for what has

0:27:50.610,0:27:53.850
morphed into basically malignant

0:27:53.850,0:27:55.830
kleptocratic dictatorship that has tried

0:27:55.830,0:27:57.960
to reorder the world and undo all

0:27:57.960,0:28:00.510
Western alliances and smear itself all

0:28:00.510,0:28:02.340
over US and all over every other Western

0:28:02.340,0:28:04.730
democracy they can get their mitts on

0:28:04.730,0:28:07.830
and so that's I think where we get to a

0:28:07.830,0:28:09.150
little bit of this issue of that this

0:28:09.150,0:28:11.310
conflict we've got between rising

0:28:11.310,0:28:15.240
authoritarianism and the rule of law but

0:28:15.240,0:28:19.200
I also just want to say just a couple of

0:28:19.200,0:28:21.890
things in closing I am really hopeful

0:28:21.890,0:28:24.900
about the ability to do something about

0:28:24.900,0:28:26.130
this I wouldn't have written the book of

0:28:26.130,0:28:27.720
I didn't think there was if it was sort

0:28:27.720,0:28:30.900
of a can-do thing and part of what I

0:28:30.900,0:28:32.910
think is can do about it is that I think

0:28:32.910,0:28:34.590
it's understandable I don't think this

0:28:34.590,0:28:37.500
is something that is 3d chess don't I

0:28:37.500,0:28:38.940
don't think it's a conspiracy theory I

0:28:38.940,0:28:41.040
don't think it's something that is too

0:28:41.040,0:28:44.160
big to fathom and I think the solutions

0:28:44.160,0:28:46.110
about how to deal with that how to shore

0:28:46.110,0:28:48.780
up democracy by reining in and

0:28:48.780,0:28:50.610
containing some of the forces that

0:28:50.610,0:28:53.880
corrode our democracy it's doable stuff

0:28:53.880,0:28:57.930
and the sort of one of the stories that

0:28:57.930,0:28:59.400
I tell in the book the sort of heroic

0:28:59.400,0:29:02.460
story in the book that's based in the

0:29:02.460,0:29:05.460
United States is about schoolteachers in

0:29:05.460,0:29:07.710
the great state of Oklahoma I did a book

0:29:07.710,0:29:09.510
tour event earlier this week in Tulsa

0:29:09.510,0:29:12.930
was freaking fantastic 3,000 people

0:29:12.930,0:29:14.220
coming out to see Rachel Maddow talk

0:29:14.220,0:29:16.050
about the oil and gas industry in Tulsa

0:29:16.050,0:29:20.760
yeah bring it it's great they said it

0:29:20.760,0:29:24.630
couldn't be done but in

0:29:24.630,0:29:27.600
Oklahoma is a great great great teaching

0:29:27.600,0:29:31.350
moment for all of us because Oklahoma is

0:29:31.350,0:29:33.480
a state where the oil and gas industry

0:29:33.480,0:29:35.100
is incredibly powerful and we're in many

0:29:35.100,0:29:38.700
ways that industry has co-opted and

0:29:38.700,0:29:40.830
taken over what should otherwise be

0:29:40.830,0:29:43.080
government for the people and there's no

0:29:43.080,0:29:44.430
shame in that that happens literally

0:29:44.430,0:29:47.010
everywhere oil and gas is produced in

0:29:47.010,0:29:49.710
quantity everywhere on earth but because

0:29:49.710,0:29:52.230
of that co-optation

0:29:52.230,0:29:53.549
Oklahoma started to have some really

0:29:53.549,0:29:55.080
serious problems I mean including

0:29:55.080,0:29:57.270
man-made earthquakes but not just that

0:29:57.270,0:29:59.669
and the way they responded was that

0:29:59.669,0:30:01.140
they've kind of flipped the light switch

0:30:01.140,0:30:04.020
on their democracy and Oklahoma did not

0:30:04.020,0:30:05.790
become an environmental Haven and

0:30:05.790,0:30:07.679
Oklahoma did not shut down its oil and

0:30:07.679,0:30:09.660
gas industry and oil and Oklahoma did

0:30:09.660,0:30:12.620
not become a blue state but Oklahoma

0:30:12.620,0:30:15.150
citizens of all ideological stripes

0:30:15.150,0:30:17.730
decided that they needed to take back

0:30:17.730,0:30:19.380
what their government was doing from the

0:30:19.380,0:30:22.169
industry that was strangling it and they

0:30:22.169,0:30:24.690
showed up in quantity led by the

0:30:24.690,0:30:26.160
teachers and by the students who

0:30:26.160,0:30:28.500
supported them and they reorganized

0:30:28.500,0:30:31.169
their state budget and I know the level

0:30:31.169,0:30:33.510
of the gross production tax for oil and

0:30:33.510,0:30:34.740
natural gas in the state of Oklahoma

0:30:34.740,0:30:36.150
doesn't sound like it's the thing that's

0:30:36.150,0:30:37.860
going to save the world but when they

0:30:37.860,0:30:39.929
turned it from 2% to 5% by

0:30:39.929,0:30:41.669
people-powered demonstrations under the

0:30:41.669,0:30:44.400
Rotunda in the most oil and gas captured

0:30:44.400,0:30:46.710
government within the United States that

0:30:46.710,0:30:49.440
to me was the path even among those

0:30:49.440,0:30:51.840
Republican teachers most of them even in

0:30:51.840,0:30:54.090
that conservative state to know that

0:30:54.090,0:30:58.020
this is doable stuff and I am inspired

0:30:58.020,0:31:02.070
by that I am also humbled and inspired

0:31:02.070,0:31:05.460
and in awe of the climate activist

0:31:05.460,0:31:06.690
movement that's being led by young

0:31:06.690,0:31:09.440
people right now

0:31:13.280,0:31:16.549
I think that it is no secret that they

0:31:16.549,0:31:19.940
will win what they are trying to do they

0:31:19.940,0:31:23.330
are going to win and the question for

0:31:23.330,0:31:24.710
the United States for those of us here

0:31:24.710,0:31:29.750
in the u.s. is twofold one how quickly

0:31:29.750,0:31:32.179
are we going to get there how quickly

0:31:32.179,0:31:33.470
can we make this decision and how

0:31:33.470,0:31:35.419
ambitious can be can we be when we make

0:31:35.419,0:31:38.450
it but also can we rise to the occasion

0:31:38.450,0:31:41.200
of being the biggest economy on earth

0:31:41.200,0:31:43.760
every Western oil major is either

0:31:43.760,0:31:45.350
headquartered here or needs to do lots

0:31:45.350,0:31:46.820
of business here and that means they are

0:31:46.820,0:31:52.010
all de-facto regulated here and if the

0:31:52.010,0:31:55.640
American public would stand up and do

0:31:55.640,0:31:57.650
things at the federal level to regulate

0:31:57.650,0:31:59.690
this industry that literally props up

0:31:59.690,0:32:03.830
despot around the world that not only is

0:32:03.830,0:32:05.960
game over for the climate in terms of

0:32:05.960,0:32:07.640
them getting their way but that also

0:32:07.640,0:32:10.070
erodes our own governance here and

0:32:10.070,0:32:12.679
everywhere else they touch if we enacted

0:32:12.679,0:32:14.150
the reforms at the federal level which

0:32:14.150,0:32:15.980
is something we already started to do at

0:32:15.980,0:32:17.539
the end of the Obama administration and

0:32:17.539,0:32:19.669
it could be done it would have a

0:32:19.669,0:32:22.640
worldwide effect in terms of shoring up

0:32:22.640,0:32:24.320
democracy helping us make better

0:32:24.320,0:32:27.020
decisions about the climate and making

0:32:27.020,0:32:28.460
those decisions faster and with more

0:32:28.460,0:32:30.580
ambition and it's within our reach and

0:32:30.580,0:32:34.760
that to me is exciting and I will just

0:32:34.760,0:32:36.909
close with one last thought which is I

0:32:36.909,0:32:41.090
mentioned the paper towels thing it did

0:32:41.090,0:32:44.150
surprise me in writing the book that the

0:32:44.150,0:32:48.530
level of technological hmm that's the

0:32:48.530,0:32:50.990
nice way to say this the way we

0:32:50.990,0:32:53.210
overestimate the technological capacity

0:32:53.210,0:32:55.039
of this large cup this large cut this

0:32:55.039,0:32:56.750
large industry they're not as good as

0:32:56.750,0:32:59.630
they think they are we overestimate

0:32:59.630,0:33:01.120
their technological capability and we

0:33:01.120,0:33:03.260
underestimate their geopolitical impact

0:33:03.260,0:33:05.780
and if we are about to go through a

0:33:05.780,0:33:08.000
worldwide reckoning in terms of the use

0:33:08.000,0:33:11.000
of these fuels if we are about to have a

0:33:11.000,0:33:13.010
climate driven reckoning where we turn

0:33:13.010,0:33:14.750
away from this industry at last because

0:33:14.750,0:33:17.960
we need to obviously we're all focused

0:33:17.960,0:33:19.429
on what the environmental impact of that

0:33:19.429,0:33:21.320
will be but I think it is worth thinking

0:33:21.320,0:33:22.580
in advance about the fact that that's

0:33:22.580,0:33:24.230
going to have a big geopolitical impact

0:33:24.230,0:33:26.780
too because this industry does prop up

0:33:26.780,0:33:29.150
terrible governments all over the world

0:33:29.150,0:33:32.120
they prop up whole systems of governance

0:33:32.120,0:33:35.300
all around the world and if their market

0:33:35.300,0:33:38.930
share precipitously drops and if they

0:33:38.930,0:33:41.210
lose the power that they've got both

0:33:41.210,0:33:42.860
just in terms of their wealth and in

0:33:42.860,0:33:44.390
terms of their influence and how much we

0:33:44.390,0:33:46.550
need them I think we should expect that

0:33:46.550,0:33:48.830
the boundaries of countries may change I

0:33:48.830,0:33:51.680
think we should expect governance writ

0:33:51.680,0:33:53.630
large to change I think we should expect

0:33:53.630,0:33:55.160
a number of governments around the world

0:33:55.160,0:33:57.800
to fall and quickly and that's not to

0:33:57.800,0:34:00.140
say we shouldn't do it but it means that

0:34:00.140,0:34:01.730
when that happens when that tipping

0:34:01.730,0:34:03.680
point comes and it will come these

0:34:03.680,0:34:06.050
activists are gonna win when that moment

0:34:06.050,0:34:09.110
comes we need to be able to hold

0:34:09.110,0:34:11.540
ourselves up as an exemplar of democracy

0:34:11.540,0:34:14.360
why democracy is the best system that

0:34:14.360,0:34:16.489
anybody's ever invented to show that

0:34:16.489,0:34:17.840
it's strong that it works for the people

0:34:17.840,0:34:19.969
and when other forms of government are

0:34:19.969,0:34:22.159
in decline and in collapse we're the

0:34:22.159,0:34:25.469
example of what you want to be and

0:34:25.469,0:34:28.559
[Music]

0:34:30.460,0:34:34.089
so thank you all for coming I'm super

0:34:34.089,0:34:35.020
happy to have you here I'm gonna put

0:34:35.020,0:34:36.339
back on my glasses so now you're about

0:34:36.339,0:34:41.199
to reappear and Alison is here and we're

0:34:41.199,0:34:43.210
gonna do questions over there if I fall

0:34:43.210,0:34:45.540
down between here and there

0:34:45.540,0:35:03.069
thank you if I blue to floor it

0:35:03.069,0:35:04.510
I didn't bring the book over because

0:35:04.510,0:35:05.680
when you have crutches you can't put

0:35:05.680,0:35:08.050
anything in your hands so if you want me

0:35:08.050,0:35:09.609
to like reference anything I'll have to

0:35:09.609,0:35:12.640
crawl over we'll have someone run into

0:35:12.640,0:35:14.230
us okay how's that sound

0:35:14.230,0:35:17.710
great there's water here okay so I think

0:35:17.710,0:35:19.420
it goes without saying after your

0:35:19.420,0:35:22.089
earlier reception that it is such a

0:35:22.089,0:35:25.119
pleasure an honor and a thrill to have

0:35:25.119,0:35:29.490
you Rachel Maddow in Chicago

0:35:35.440,0:35:38.110
it's in I love this city I cannot

0:35:38.110,0:35:40.720
believe how many people are here it's

0:35:40.720,0:35:42.550
amazing I just I'm thrilled so thanks

0:35:42.550,0:35:46.000
yeah yeah we are too and and I as you

0:35:46.000,0:35:47.440
were saying I don't think any of us

0:35:47.440,0:35:49.630
anticipated that the world at this

0:35:49.630,0:35:54.310
moment would look feel sound like a kind

0:35:54.310,0:35:58.660
of Rachel Maddow opening of a except on

0:35:58.660,0:36:00.400
steroids you know that everything you've

0:36:00.400,0:36:02.080
been talking about you know you were

0:36:02.080,0:36:05.890
able to say this week on your show the

0:36:05.890,0:36:08.290
Russians did it it was the Russians you

0:36:08.290,0:36:09.460
know after the Senate Intelligence

0:36:09.460,0:36:12.700
report came out about infirmed previous

0:36:12.700,0:36:15.490
reports as you said a lot of the

0:36:15.490,0:36:17.200
characters that are in the book or that

0:36:17.200,0:36:18.840
you've been talking about on the show

0:36:18.840,0:36:21.760
Rex Tillerson is back in the news he

0:36:21.760,0:36:24.700
kind of gone dormant he came back just

0:36:24.700,0:36:33.340
for the book launch supportive Dimitri

0:36:33.340,0:36:35.590
firtash I'm so glad you found that one

0:36:35.590,0:36:36.700
of the most interesting parts of the

0:36:36.700,0:36:38.590
book but you know he's actually the

0:36:38.590,0:36:40.180
extradition they're trying to extradite

0:36:40.180,0:36:45.730
him to Chicago have you got any

0:36:45.730,0:36:49.270
Ukrainian connections or Dimitri firtash

0:36:49.270,0:36:51.910
goes on trial in Chicago I will be doing

0:36:51.910,0:36:55.170
the Rachel Maddow Show from

0:37:00.869,0:37:05.200
so yeah I mean it must must boom I mean

0:37:05.200,0:37:06.849
these are terrible times but it must

0:37:06.849,0:37:12.369
feel kind of good to you hey guys you

0:37:12.369,0:37:14.200
know I've been talking about this yeah

0:37:14.200,0:37:15.760
writing about the end of the world and

0:37:15.760,0:37:22.810
now here it is I really I was thinking

0:37:22.810,0:37:24.430
about the Russia attack and trying to

0:37:24.430,0:37:26.800
figure out you know as I said the sort

0:37:26.800,0:37:28.599
of motive force for what they did would

0:37:28.599,0:37:30.130
explain their desperation what would

0:37:30.130,0:37:32.320
possibly make it worth it what I think

0:37:32.320,0:37:33.820
that we're actually trying to get out of

0:37:33.820,0:37:35.680
that election interference I think

0:37:35.680,0:37:37.780
sanctions I think you can't understand

0:37:37.780,0:37:40.770
any of it without understanding how

0:37:40.770,0:37:43.960
difficult sanctions make it for Russia

0:37:43.960,0:37:45.940
specifically because they are an oil and

0:37:45.940,0:37:48.369
gas economy and their own oil and gas

0:37:48.369,0:37:50.770
companies are terrible because Putin is

0:37:50.770,0:37:52.119
terrible

0:37:52.119,0:37:53.740
like you kind of have to get all those

0:37:53.740,0:37:55.270
pieces of the story but it does kind of

0:37:55.270,0:37:57.550
fall into place I wasn't trying to

0:37:57.550,0:37:59.080
explain what Trump was going to get

0:37:59.080,0:38:02.880
impeached for that was just like a bonus

0:38:02.880,0:38:06.040
icing on the cake I am curious because

0:38:06.040,0:38:08.109
when you any as you were kind of closing

0:38:08.109,0:38:09.880
and bringing this together and talking

0:38:09.880,0:38:11.500
about the stakes in this and thinking

0:38:11.500,0:38:14.650
about democracy authoritarianism you

0:38:14.650,0:38:16.599
know you characterize the influence of

0:38:16.599,0:38:19.450
oil and gas on politics as petroleum

0:38:19.450,0:38:21.880
powered governance saying that it has

0:38:21.880,0:38:24.970
twin engines corruption in which the

0:38:24.970,0:38:26.530
industry effectively effectively

0:38:26.530,0:38:29.530
captures politicians and then capture in

0:38:29.530,0:38:32.290
which the industry effectively comes to

0:38:32.290,0:38:35.020
own the government and when you look at

0:38:35.020,0:38:37.510
the operations of oil and gas in Russia

0:38:37.510,0:38:39.640
when you look at the operations of oil

0:38:39.640,0:38:41.140
and gas and their influence in the

0:38:41.140,0:38:42.970
United States and of course this book is

0:38:42.970,0:38:45.430
about how they intertwine and take that

0:38:45.430,0:38:48.609
step back as you're asking us to do what

0:38:48.609,0:38:50.080
are the differences and are the

0:38:50.080,0:38:53.470
differences of degree or are they of

0:38:53.470,0:38:57.550
kind between Russia and us yes the thing

0:38:57.550,0:39:00.700
that Putin recognized about the oil and

0:39:00.700,0:39:03.460
gas industry I mean Russia really is

0:39:03.460,0:39:05.560
floating on a sea of oil and gas they

0:39:05.560,0:39:07.330
they have a ton of it and they were

0:39:07.330,0:39:09.190
among the first places in the world

0:39:09.190,0:39:11.710
to ever drill it in the former Soviet

0:39:11.710,0:39:15.700
Union and the Western Siberia noil sands

0:39:15.700,0:39:18.220
are incredibly easy to drill you don't

0:39:18.220,0:39:20.799
need very fancy technology in order to

0:39:20.799,0:39:23.650
do it and so it's always been a stable

0:39:23.650,0:39:26.890
part of even the Soviet economy before

0:39:26.890,0:39:29.500
the Russian Federation but when when

0:39:29.500,0:39:31.630
Putin got into power that's obviously

0:39:31.630,0:39:33.760
the time when Russia is in transition

0:39:33.760,0:39:35.890
post Yeltsin right

0:39:35.890,0:39:39.039
and Putin sort of has a decision to make

0:39:39.039,0:39:41.559
as to whether or not Russia is going to

0:39:41.559,0:39:46.210
economically liberalize enough to have a

0:39:46.210,0:39:48.339
diversified economy they're gonna have

0:39:48.339,0:39:50.319
oil and gas at some level no matter what

0:39:50.319,0:39:51.970
but in order to have a diversified

0:39:51.970,0:39:54.910
economy and a well-balanced economy you

0:39:54.910,0:39:58.000
kind of need like property rights rule

0:39:58.000,0:40:00.520
of law a legal system that isn't just

0:40:00.520,0:40:03.309
used to kill your enemies and and give

0:40:03.309,0:40:07.599
favors to your kids you need a lack of

0:40:07.599,0:40:10.180
general corruption at everything from

0:40:10.180,0:40:12.730
the permitting process to the election

0:40:12.730,0:40:16.029
process and that was it seemed terrible

0:40:16.029,0:40:19.029
to Vladimir Putin the idea that you'd

0:40:19.029,0:40:20.200
have to go through these sort of

0:40:20.200,0:40:21.010
nation-building

0:40:21.010,0:40:23.670
things in order to develop a modern

0:40:23.670,0:40:27.339
capitalist diversified economy was not

0:40:27.339,0:40:29.380
going to work for him and so he decided

0:40:29.380,0:40:32.619
to kind of go all in on oil and gas to

0:40:32.619,0:40:37.200
the basic basically to the extent where

0:40:37.200,0:40:41.619
he took over the industry so that it

0:40:41.619,0:40:43.270
could essentially be used as a power of

0:40:43.270,0:40:45.400
that as a tool of the presidency right

0:40:45.400,0:40:48.099
oil is power oil is corrupt and so

0:40:48.099,0:40:50.710
Russia is a weak country with a weak

0:40:50.710,0:40:52.869
economy which that what it would take to

0:40:52.869,0:40:54.549
make it a strong economy he can't bear

0:40:54.549,0:40:56.619
so it's gonna be a weak economy having a

0:40:56.619,0:40:58.390
weak economy having a weak political

0:40:58.390,0:41:00.309
structure that's essentially evolved

0:41:00.309,0:41:01.329
into just this kleptocratic

0:41:01.329,0:41:03.460
authoritarianism now there's not much to

0:41:03.460,0:41:05.230
offer and it's not that's not the way

0:41:05.230,0:41:06.400
you become a stronger and more

0:41:06.400,0:41:08.289
influential country but he still sees

0:41:08.289,0:41:11.339
Russia as having an international scale

0:41:11.339,0:41:13.839
but having ambitions of international

0:41:13.839,0:41:15.609
scale and so the reason that oil and gas

0:41:15.609,0:41:17.980
was so attractive to him as something he

0:41:17.980,0:41:19.869
was willing to rely on in its entirety

0:41:19.869,0:41:22.359
was because if he could control them and

0:41:22.359,0:41:22.779
wheel

0:41:22.779,0:41:26.140
his tools he could use them as weapons

0:41:26.140,0:41:28.569
against other countries and that's what

0:41:28.569,0:41:30.369
he's done in the near abroad in terms of

0:41:30.369,0:41:31.839
all the former Soviet states Ukraine

0:41:31.839,0:41:33.519
first among them but that's also what

0:41:33.519,0:41:35.349
he's doing with Western Europe I mean he

0:41:35.349,0:41:37.659
can literally turn the lights off at

0:41:37.659,0:41:41.469
will in Germany and in Ukraine and in

0:41:41.469,0:41:44.669
lots of other places and that power is

0:41:44.669,0:41:47.289
irresistible to him and it's really the

0:41:47.289,0:41:50.199
only power that he's got and so to see

0:41:50.199,0:41:52.689
oil and gas used as a weapon there and

0:41:52.689,0:41:55.449
to see him make the because he wanted to

0:41:55.449,0:41:57.189
control it himself he couldn't allow for

0:41:57.189,0:41:59.349
there to be good companies run by strong

0:41:59.349,0:42:00.909
guys who got rich doing it because they

0:42:00.909,0:42:01.869
were good at the oil and gas business

0:42:01.869,0:42:03.969
anytime anybody got good at it he would

0:42:03.969,0:42:06.429
lock them up take their company and fold

0:42:06.429,0:42:08.709
it into Ross and after gas problem so

0:42:08.709,0:42:10.419
their help they have a terrible oil and

0:42:10.419,0:42:11.619
gas sector even though it's all they've

0:42:11.619,0:42:14.289
got its run by like his judo partners

0:42:14.289,0:42:15.939
for money with seven it's all these guys

0:42:15.939,0:42:17.890
with like noses that go this way and you

0:42:17.890,0:42:19.900
know kicked dogs for fun on their coffee

0:42:19.900,0:42:22.079
breaks I mean it's just they're terrible

0:42:22.079,0:42:25.719
the Gazprom lost over 300 billion

0:42:25.719,0:42:27.880
dollars of its valuation since this guy

0:42:27.880,0:42:29.529
Alexey Miller has been in charge but

0:42:29.529,0:42:30.729
he's still in charge because he's doing

0:42:30.729,0:42:32.859
exactly what Putin wants them to do with

0:42:32.859,0:42:34.900
that company it's they're terrible in

0:42:34.900,0:42:38.140
order to drill oil and gas in Russia as

0:42:38.140,0:42:40.599
they run out of the easy oil and gas

0:42:40.599,0:42:41.919
that they were used to as they need to

0:42:41.919,0:42:43.779
get to more challenging drilling

0:42:43.779,0:42:45.819
locations like the Arctic sea and all

0:42:45.819,0:42:46.959
these other places they want to drill

0:42:46.959,0:42:48.640
they can't do it with the terrible

0:42:48.640,0:42:50.829
companies they have they need to tap

0:42:50.829,0:42:52.599
Western experts this is one ant with

0:42:52.599,0:42:53.709
sanction this is one of the ironies

0:42:53.709,0:42:55.659
right the rhetoric in the United States

0:42:55.659,0:42:58.150
in some circles has long been that we

0:42:58.150,0:43:00.699
are dependent on foreign oil and in fact

0:43:00.699,0:43:03.039
foreign or at least Russian oil is

0:43:03.039,0:43:06.519
highly dependent on our oil and and our

0:43:06.519,0:43:08.859
oil expertise as they're saying it's a

0:43:08.859,0:43:11.140
form of people like Rex Tillerson and

0:43:11.140,0:43:13.689
Exxon yeah and not in it turned like it

0:43:13.689,0:43:15.189
turns out there's like these amazing

0:43:15.189,0:43:18.189
stories to tell about that I mean so

0:43:18.189,0:43:21.400
Russia after what I was describing there

0:43:21.400,0:43:22.989
in terms of Yanukovych turning tail and

0:43:22.989,0:43:26.979
fleeing and Putin being really mad right

0:43:26.979,0:43:28.359
what we all know what happened right

0:43:28.359,0:43:30.039
after that right Putin invaded Ukraine

0:43:30.039,0:43:33.009
and took part of it and in response the

0:43:33.009,0:43:36.230
u.s. put sanctions on them and in 2014

0:43:36.230,0:43:39.590
who Rosneft had just done a half

0:43:39.590,0:43:41.900
trillion dollar oil deal the largest oil

0:43:41.900,0:43:45.080
deal in the history of deals Ross left

0:43:45.080,0:43:47.090
of Justin a huge half trillion dollar

0:43:47.090,0:43:49.100
deal with Exxon to go do some of this

0:43:49.100,0:43:51.470
challenging drilling up in the Arctic

0:43:51.470,0:43:54.800
among other places and Rex Tillerson is

0:43:54.800,0:43:56.119
the one who did that deal lots of other

0:43:56.119,0:43:58.010
Western executives have had a really

0:43:58.010,0:43:59.869
hard time in Russia but Rex figured it

0:43:59.869,0:44:06.530
out somehow he didn't Putin somehow saw

0:44:06.530,0:44:08.660
eye to eye he was able to do this giant

0:44:08.660,0:44:10.460
deal and they were up there drilling in

0:44:10.460,0:44:14.500
the Arctic sea as or in the Kara Sea as

0:44:14.500,0:44:17.180
US sanctions on Russia were going into

0:44:17.180,0:44:19.460
effect as US sanctions on the head of

0:44:19.460,0:44:21.440
Russia's national oil company we're

0:44:21.440,0:44:23.270
going into effect and Rex and Exxon are

0:44:23.270,0:44:24.530
still there going we need a couple more

0:44:24.530,0:44:26.510
days we need a couple more days we have

0:44:26.510,0:44:28.430
we need an environmental waiver we're

0:44:28.430,0:44:30.080
worried about cleaning up properly

0:44:30.080,0:44:31.910
because of the birds we're really

0:44:31.910,0:44:34.010
worried about the we can't leave and

0:44:34.010,0:44:35.420
they're trying to get one more day one

0:44:35.420,0:44:37.040
more day one more day one more extension

0:44:37.040,0:44:38.810
because they're trying to hit oil before

0:44:38.810,0:44:42.770
they go and they do they hit oil and

0:44:42.770,0:44:44.480
then the next day sanctions yanked them

0:44:44.480,0:44:46.550
out of there and Russian oil and gas

0:44:46.550,0:44:48.770
companies suck so badly that even with

0:44:48.770,0:44:51.260
Exxon having drilled the well and found

0:44:51.260,0:44:53.270
the oil and pointed them toward it they

0:44:53.270,0:44:56.450
can't get it out of the ground and so

0:44:56.450,0:44:58.460
since that day with that half trillion

0:44:58.460,0:45:00.380
dollar deal on ice because of u.s.

0:45:00.380,0:45:01.480
foreign policy

0:45:01.480,0:45:03.980
Russia has been up against it this is

0:45:03.980,0:45:05.090
the only thing they've got in their

0:45:05.090,0:45:06.230
economy how are they going to get that

0:45:06.230,0:45:08.570
oil they need this they need Exxon they

0:45:08.570,0:45:10.220
need these Western companies well u.s.

0:45:10.220,0:45:11.690
foreign policy says they can't use them

0:45:11.690,0:45:14.119
well who should our guy who we just

0:45:14.119,0:45:16.430
installed in the White House be put in

0:45:16.430,0:45:19.369
charge of u.s. foreign policy then how

0:45:19.369,0:45:21.700
about Rex

0:45:21.700,0:45:25.069
it's an existential threat to them it

0:45:25.069,0:45:27.079
was worth it right man they also did

0:45:27.079,0:45:28.999
things despite sanctions like the

0:45:28.999,0:45:31.249
annexation of Crimea and their

0:45:31.249,0:45:34.220
developing oil and drilling there and I

0:45:34.220,0:45:36.140
wondered but reading that story it's

0:45:36.140,0:45:38.749
about you know what Russia is trying to

0:45:38.749,0:45:41.239
do to maintain this power and hold on to

0:45:41.239,0:45:43.549
it and it ensure a steady supply of it

0:45:43.549,0:45:46.759
because it is all power to them but it's

0:45:46.759,0:45:49.339
also about Exxon and Tillerson and

0:45:49.339,0:45:50.779
others trying to figure out how do we

0:45:50.779,0:45:52.880
work around the edges of these sanctions

0:45:52.880,0:45:54.289
and what are the loopholes so we can

0:45:54.289,0:45:57.410
continue to do this and it struck me in

0:45:57.410,0:45:59.509
as all of this is coming together into

0:45:59.509,0:46:02.420
that great big you know the the Rachel

0:46:02.420,0:46:04.539
Maddow prophecy that is now on earth

0:46:04.539,0:46:08.720
said that there's something similar in

0:46:08.720,0:46:14.019
the way that President Trump and and

0:46:14.019,0:46:16.519
some of the people around him are kind

0:46:16.519,0:46:17.660
of you know right now they're not

0:46:17.660,0:46:19.460
talking about the content of the

0:46:19.460,0:46:21.079
impeachment and all the news that is

0:46:21.079,0:46:23.329
coming out Gordon Sandlin just now is

0:46:23.329,0:46:25.039
saying that he will go before Congress

0:46:25.039,0:46:27.950
and talk about the quid pro quo they're

0:46:27.950,0:46:30.559
talking about the legality of this and

0:46:30.559,0:46:32.180
kind of refusing it and that is

0:46:32.180,0:46:34.819
something that this president has seemed

0:46:34.819,0:46:39.349
very good at to kind of test guardrails

0:46:39.349,0:46:41.210
and then push right through them and

0:46:41.210,0:46:43.309
ignore them and so as we're moving

0:46:43.309,0:46:46.009
forward and as you're watching this what

0:46:46.009,0:46:47.719
do you think to come back to that

0:46:47.719,0:46:50.690
question of if we are the kind of stop

0:46:50.690,0:46:53.390
you know this is where it stops our

0:46:53.390,0:46:55.339
democracy we have to be the best

0:46:55.339,0:46:57.589
what should the Democrats be doing to

0:46:57.589,0:46:59.960
try and enforce those kind of democratic

0:46:59.960,0:47:02.719
guardrails against them when he

0:47:02.719,0:47:04.489
seemingly does not seem to care about

0:47:04.489,0:47:06.259
them or even acknowledge them yeah I

0:47:06.259,0:47:08.599
mean I what's been interesting I think

0:47:08.599,0:47:10.039
with the president it's a very astute

0:47:10.039,0:47:12.920
point I think is that I feel like what

0:47:12.920,0:47:14.749
we've watched in real time over the

0:47:14.749,0:47:17.719
course of his presidency is that he

0:47:17.719,0:47:20.180
learns where these democratic norms are

0:47:20.180,0:47:22.819
in real time by crossing them because he

0:47:22.819,0:47:26.719
didn't know they were there like I'm not

0:47:26.719,0:47:28.700
supposed to just give security

0:47:28.700,0:47:31.100
clearances to my kids

0:47:31.100,0:47:34.170
this is a problem oh you're bothered by

0:47:34.170,0:47:34.440
this

0:47:34.440,0:47:36.030
yeah I'm given security clearances to

0:47:36.030,0:47:38.910
everybody you know like he learns what

0:47:38.910,0:47:41.369
if the problem learns what's illegal or

0:47:41.369,0:47:43.860
what the problem is by doing it and then

0:47:43.860,0:47:47.970
decides to make a virtue of it and so

0:47:47.970,0:47:49.920
that makes it hard to figure out like

0:47:49.920,0:47:52.950
usually when people do stuff in politics

0:47:52.950,0:47:55.550
that's bad like that getting caught is

0:47:55.550,0:47:58.440
the start of it getting fixed but in

0:47:58.440,0:48:00.420
this case getting caught is the start of

0:48:00.420,0:48:02.220
the Republican Party trying to celebrate

0:48:02.220,0:48:04.430
that at that crime is a new virtue and

0:48:04.430,0:48:14.730
that shamelessness about about about

0:48:14.730,0:48:16.010
what they're doing wrong

0:48:16.010,0:48:19.230
makes it hard I mean our most of our

0:48:19.230,0:48:21.960
tools within the Democrat within our

0:48:21.960,0:48:24.360
American democratic process are based on

0:48:24.360,0:48:27.030
shame that if you do this you will have

0:48:27.030,0:48:28.800
to disclose it and once you disclose it

0:48:28.800,0:48:30.420
people will criticize you for it and you

0:48:30.420,0:48:31.980
will be ashamed and that is the

0:48:31.980,0:48:33.390
disincentive for you to do the thing in

0:48:33.390,0:48:35.940
the first place well not if you don't

0:48:35.940,0:48:40.830
have any shame so it's hard but I mean

0:48:40.830,0:48:44.130
the the thing I am I the thing I see the

0:48:44.130,0:48:46.410
Democrats doing that I think is

0:48:46.410,0:48:48.930
unavoidable but also keeps me up a

0:48:48.930,0:48:50.760
little bit at night is that they are

0:48:50.760,0:48:54.359
taking the things that used to be rules

0:48:54.359,0:48:57.540
that the president has gleefully broken

0:48:57.540,0:48:59.430
and that the Republican Party and the

0:48:59.430,0:49:01.170
president's supporters have tried to

0:49:01.170,0:49:04.109
turn into virtues because he has broken

0:49:04.109,0:49:05.700
those things there

0:49:05.700,0:49:08.040
the Democrats are now looking at those

0:49:08.040,0:49:09.270
rules and thinking about making them

0:49:09.270,0:49:11.700
into laws the things that you were just

0:49:11.700,0:49:13.170
supposed to not do because they were

0:49:13.170,0:49:15.000
disgusting or because they were

0:49:15.000,0:49:17.070
politically unpalatable you will now not

0:49:17.070,0:49:20.910
be allowed to do and that's probably

0:49:20.910,0:49:26.760
necessary but it also change our

0:49:26.760,0:49:31.770
democratic system and I don't want the

0:49:31.770,0:49:34.170
judiciary to be the only check on our

0:49:34.170,0:49:38.450
political officials especially

0:49:40.470,0:49:42.970
because I'm very worried about the

0:49:42.970,0:49:44.470
direction of the justice department

0:49:44.470,0:49:48.430
right now I mean the the biggest norm

0:49:48.430,0:49:50.230
that has been broken in this

0:49:50.230,0:49:52.180
administration I think has actually not

0:49:52.180,0:49:53.680
been broken by the president but by the

0:49:53.680,0:49:57.040
Attorney General and the most serious

0:49:57.040,0:49:58.720
thing that we have to worry about in

0:49:58.720,0:50:00.730
terms of the drift of our democracy

0:50:00.730,0:50:03.460
right now is I think the use of the US

0:50:03.460,0:50:06.760
Justice Department to punish the

0:50:06.760,0:50:08.320
president's political opponents and

0:50:08.320,0:50:14.830
reward his political allies that that is

0:50:14.830,0:50:16.600
something for which a former attorney

0:50:16.600,0:50:18.160
general named John Mitchell went to

0:50:18.160,0:50:23.020
prison in the 1970s and I'm I feel like

0:50:23.020,0:50:25.630
if John Mitchell were alive right now

0:50:25.630,0:50:27.700
and working in the Justice Department

0:50:27.700,0:50:29.650
his only worry would be how fast he was

0:50:29.650,0:50:33.190
getting promoted and I'm very very

0:50:33.190,0:50:34.960
concerned about that and you couple that

0:50:34.960,0:50:37.390
with the sort of neat this feeling among

0:50:37.390,0:50:38.980
the Democrats that this stuff ought to

0:50:38.980,0:50:40.360
be illegal so nobody else can get away

0:50:40.360,0:50:43.150
with it the way Trump has those those

0:50:43.150,0:50:44.610
things pull me in opposite directions

0:50:44.610,0:50:49.300
mm-hmm yeah I you know I an audience

0:50:49.300,0:50:52.030
question for you there's a number of

0:50:52.030,0:50:53.830
things to be worrying about but there's

0:50:53.830,0:50:56.290
also this question from Vicki Fogerty if

0:50:56.290,0:50:58.630
and you've answered this already but

0:50:58.630,0:51:01.150
since as you say everything's moving so

0:51:01.150,0:51:02.920
quickly I curious to know what your

0:51:02.920,0:51:06.130
answer is now low these three days later

0:51:06.130,0:51:08.770
Vicki Fogerty asks if the evidence is

0:51:08.770,0:51:10.300
there for impeachment do you believe the

0:51:10.300,0:51:12.400
republican-controlled Senate will

0:51:12.400,0:51:15.160
impeach so that's the first part what

0:51:15.160,0:51:18.010
will the Senate do yeah I have no idea I

0:51:18.010,0:51:20.140
mean it's very easy I think to look at

0:51:20.140,0:51:22.060
Mitch McConnell from a distance and be

0:51:22.060,0:51:24.570
like yeah okay

0:51:24.570,0:51:28.480
but I also I do feel like we are in a

0:51:28.480,0:51:30.310
special moment and it is worth

0:51:30.310,0:51:33.820
appreciating the unique nature of the

0:51:33.820,0:51:34.930
thing that our country is going through

0:51:34.930,0:51:37.030
right now I mean President Trump has

0:51:37.030,0:51:39.040
been very controversial since before his

0:51:39.040,0:51:41.380
election and the idea that he is now

0:51:41.380,0:51:42.940
being impeached in some ways I think

0:51:42.940,0:51:45.520
feels inevitable feels like you know a

0:51:45.520,0:51:47.440
relief for people who have been critical

0:51:47.440,0:51:51.760
of his behavior but impeachment is

0:51:51.760,0:51:54.610
is is a hen's tooth I mean it's a really

0:51:54.610,0:51:58.650
rare thing it was Andrew Johnson in 1867

0:51:58.650,0:52:01.120
keep me honest I think they tried to

0:52:01.120,0:52:03.670
impeach him in 67 and they failed and

0:52:03.670,0:52:05.050
then they went back with like exactly

0:52:05.050,0:52:06.940
the same articles innate to 1868 and

0:52:06.940,0:52:09.850
they got him then and Johnson was not

0:52:09.850,0:52:12.430
removed because of Furth for want of one

0:52:12.430,0:52:14.020
vote in the Senate so that was the house

0:52:14.020,0:52:15.520
impeaching him the Senate not removing

0:52:15.520,0:52:17.470
him you have to get to the 90s before we

0:52:17.470,0:52:19.990
do it again Richard Nixon resigned

0:52:19.990,0:52:21.460
without being impeached yes they were

0:52:21.460,0:52:23.350
drawing up impeachment articles but he

0:52:23.350,0:52:25.150
resigned rather than face that so it's

0:52:25.150,0:52:27.070
Andrew Johnson and Richard and and Bill

0:52:27.070,0:52:29.320
Clinton that's it that's the only

0:52:29.320,0:52:31.360
history that we've got as a country with

0:52:31.360,0:52:33.070
impeachment and if you think that you

0:52:33.070,0:52:34.630
can extrapolate from those two examples

0:52:34.630,0:52:37.150
right to understand you know what's

0:52:37.150,0:52:39.820
normal but if the Republican if the

0:52:39.820,0:52:42.850
Senate does not yeah in vote to impeach

0:52:42.850,0:52:44.530
what does that do to the Republican

0:52:44.530,0:52:46.150
Party that's the second half of the case

0:52:46.150,0:52:49.180
well I don't I mean I don't I don't know

0:52:49.180,0:52:50.920
what's going to happen I don't know when

0:52:50.920,0:52:53.050
the Democrats are going to take their

0:52:53.050,0:52:54.190
impeachment vote and I don't know what

0:52:54.190,0:52:55.450
they're gonna try to impeach him on I

0:52:55.450,0:52:57.640
think the number of articles that they

0:52:57.640,0:52:59.140
try to impeach him on may end up being

0:52:59.140,0:53:00.790
very important just in terms of the game

0:53:00.790,0:53:03.070
theory of all of this in terms of the

0:53:03.070,0:53:04.690
numbers of Republicans who may find

0:53:04.690,0:53:06.940
something in an article three that they

0:53:06.940,0:53:10.030
didn't like in an article two when it

0:53:10.030,0:53:12.370
gets to the US Senate I think that most

0:53:12.370,0:53:14.350
democratic senators will likely vote to

0:53:14.350,0:53:17.260
remove I think that Republican senators

0:53:17.260,0:53:19.510
are basically thought to not have any

0:53:19.510,0:53:21.340
chance of that but I also feel like we

0:53:21.340,0:53:22.780
should be humble about that prediction

0:53:22.780,0:53:24.190
I don't know what's gonna happen we

0:53:24.190,0:53:25.300
don't know what's gonna come out and

0:53:25.300,0:53:27.340
preachments only been going on for three

0:53:27.340,0:53:28.690
weeks now and look how much we've

0:53:28.690,0:53:33.540
learned we didn't even know Igor

0:53:36.220,0:53:38.150
did you guys see the picture that

0:53:38.150,0:53:40.970
circulated today which is Igor and Lev

0:53:40.970,0:53:46.010
and Mike Huckabee and Igor or love again

0:53:46.010,0:53:47.060
I'm sorry I don't know which one of them

0:53:47.060,0:53:53.630
is literally holding a bag of money is

0:53:53.630,0:53:57.920
this Halloween costume is it I don't

0:53:57.920,0:54:01.340
know what will happen I think listen if

0:54:01.340,0:54:04.670
Mitch McConnell was never going to do

0:54:04.670,0:54:05.960
anything and he knew that from the

0:54:05.960,0:54:08.200
beginning no matter what came out

0:54:08.200,0:54:10.310
weren't you surprised when he came out

0:54:10.310,0:54:11.870
and said in an interview the other day

0:54:11.870,0:54:13.670
like actually we will be forced to take

0:54:13.670,0:54:15.320
this up in the Senate as I understand

0:54:15.320,0:54:16.490
the impeachment process but you don't

0:54:16.490,0:54:17.810
have a choice we got to bring it up now

0:54:17.810,0:54:19.280
he very quickly said now I don't know

0:54:19.280,0:54:21.080
how long that means we'll spend on it

0:54:21.080,0:54:22.820
and so maybe that means he convenes the

0:54:22.820,0:54:24.320
impeachment trial adjourns it and it's

0:54:24.320,0:54:26.480
over in the blink of an eye but he could

0:54:26.480,0:54:28.280
have Merrick garland did this thing just

0:54:28.280,0:54:28.880
as easily

0:54:28.880,0:54:30.470
I mean Mitch McConnell is not that

0:54:30.470,0:54:32.300
worried about the niceties of Senate

0:54:32.300,0:54:33.860
procedure when it comes to getting

0:54:33.860,0:54:35.300
something important that he wants for

0:54:35.300,0:54:37.130
partisan purposes and I say that with

0:54:37.130,0:54:41.150
great deal of admiration but he could

0:54:41.150,0:54:43.040
have just said no there's no chance

0:54:43.040,0:54:44.930
we're not taking it up don't bother he

0:54:44.930,0:54:47.180
didn't which means he's keeping a door

0:54:47.180,0:54:50.540
open for himself and I just don't think

0:54:50.540,0:54:52.010
we should prejudge any stuff of this I

0:54:52.010,0:54:53.990
think we need to have eyes open I think

0:54:53.990,0:54:56.780
that Republican I think that Republican

0:54:56.780,0:54:59.120
politicians and Democratic politicians

0:54:59.120,0:55:01.400
right now could both benefit from our

0:55:01.400,0:55:03.530
high expectations and lack of cynicism

0:55:03.530,0:55:06.200
about this process expect the best and

0:55:06.200,0:55:09.140
the most for almost all of these

0:55:09.140,0:55:10.850
politicians what they do in this

0:55:10.850,0:55:12.920
impeachment process will be in the first

0:55:12.920,0:55:15.170
paragraph of their obituary and they all

0:55:15.170,0:55:18.680
know it and that has a tendency to focus

0:55:18.680,0:55:20.630
a person's eyes on the horizon rather

0:55:20.630,0:55:22.610
than on their own feet and I think that

0:55:22.610,0:55:24.980
we I mean if you are a dyed-in-the-wool

0:55:24.980,0:55:27.350
Democrat or super liberal super

0:55:27.350,0:55:30.200
progressive or the opposite expect the

0:55:30.200,0:55:32.600
most and demand the most of people on

0:55:32.600,0:55:33.890
both sides of the aisle right here this

0:55:33.890,0:55:35.540
really isn't supposed to be a partisan

0:55:35.540,0:55:37.490
thing this is supposed to be a patriotic

0:55:37.490,0:55:39.020
thing and I think we should feel solemn

0:55:39.020,0:55:41.410
about that

0:55:47.270,0:55:49.710
but it's hard not to shrug at some of

0:55:49.710,0:55:52.110
the high jinks there are some hijinks

0:55:52.110,0:55:54.690
yes yes the tagline of your show so I

0:55:54.690,0:55:57.600
want to move away from love and he or

0:55:57.600,0:56:00.510
Gore and Rudy and Mitch to talk about

0:56:00.510,0:56:03.330
you the tagline in their show is trying

0:56:03.330,0:56:04.430
to increase the amount of useful

0:56:04.430,0:56:06.840
information in the world so you do deal

0:56:06.840,0:56:09.660
in reason and information facts rational

0:56:09.660,0:56:12.450
arguments you try to ground us you know

0:56:12.450,0:56:15.210
give us that solid solid standing but

0:56:15.210,0:56:17.310
people I don't know how many people that

0:56:17.310,0:56:18.870
I told you were coming who were

0:56:18.870,0:56:22.020
immediately like I guess you know

0:56:22.020,0:56:26.190
shocked so excited and then said I get

0:56:26.190,0:56:28.800
so worked up watching this show oh I

0:56:28.800,0:56:31.170
mean in fact I witnessed this I I hope

0:56:31.170,0:56:32.940
this isn't tiem I you know I dated

0:56:32.940,0:56:35.670
someone briefly who was a big Rachel

0:56:35.670,0:56:36.000
Maddow

0:56:36.000,0:56:38.820
fan watched the show and get enormous

0:56:38.820,0:56:40.830
Lee worked up like this and this is not

0:56:40.830,0:56:42.570
the reason we stopped dating but I did

0:56:42.570,0:56:45.210
at some point feel like Rachel Maddow is

0:56:45.210,0:56:46.980
a bigger presence in this relationship

0:56:46.980,0:56:50.030
[Laughter]

0:56:50.030,0:56:53.490
[Applause]

0:56:53.490,0:56:59.460
[Laughter]

0:57:00.620,0:57:03.300
wait can we talk a little bit about the

0:57:03.300,0:57:05.040
nature of the worked up like angry

0:57:05.040,0:57:07.380
anxious upset I think all of the above

0:57:07.380,0:57:08.850
and so what I'm wondering is like you

0:57:08.850,0:57:11.160
know your your reason and then the

0:57:11.160,0:57:12.870
emotion and the reason what do you make

0:57:12.870,0:57:14.490
of that emotion that emotional response

0:57:14.490,0:57:15.810
because I don't think that's what you're

0:57:15.810,0:57:18.570
necessarily going for oh no I don't I'm

0:57:18.570,0:57:20.310
this is this concept that you're

0:57:20.310,0:57:25.350
describing to me is new to me I I mean I

0:57:25.350,0:57:28.770
I have friends and like friends parents

0:57:28.770,0:57:30.900
in particular who say I can't watch you

0:57:30.900,0:57:33.950
at night because then I can't go to bed

0:57:33.950,0:57:35.430
sorry I got it

0:57:35.430,0:57:37.950
and so I listen in the morning or watch

0:57:37.950,0:57:39.240
in the morning because it's easier for

0:57:39.240,0:57:42.510
me and that I just thought that's you

0:57:42.510,0:57:44.340
know like I can't have chocolate after

0:57:44.340,0:57:49.860
5:00 was a constitutional thing I didn't

0:57:49.860,0:57:52.560
know it was a widespread phenomenon

0:57:52.560,0:57:54.450
she was saying that I don't know I mean

0:57:54.450,0:58:00.690
I am how do I say this I I am a crier I

0:58:00.690,0:58:03.770
am a person who easily I just I've

0:58:03.770,0:58:05.820
either leak ride whenever I hear the

0:58:05.820,0:58:08.490
national anthem I cry whenever I take

0:58:08.490,0:58:10.260
the subway if somebody is busking in the

0:58:10.260,0:58:11.840
subway even if they're terrible

0:58:11.840,0:58:16.080
immediately waterworks I just like that

0:58:16.080,0:58:20.040
and in that way I sometimes show emotion

0:58:20.040,0:58:22.950
on TV without wanting to because I can't

0:58:22.950,0:58:24.510
control it I mean I have little tricks

0:58:24.510,0:58:25.950
and stuff but I can't really control it

0:58:25.950,0:58:28.650
but aside from that being an easy crier

0:58:28.650,0:58:32.640
I'm not that emotional a person and I

0:58:32.640,0:58:35.850
don't think it helps me convey the stuff

0:58:35.850,0:58:38.220
that I want to convey in the show to

0:58:38.220,0:58:41.280
yell it or to have a fight with somebody

0:58:41.280,0:58:44.310
about it or to you know pound the table

0:58:44.310,0:58:45.600
I mean I know there's a little bit of

0:58:45.600,0:58:46.980
that because sometimes I get a little

0:58:46.980,0:58:48.990
wound up in what I'm doing but I I

0:58:48.990,0:58:50.970
mostly I'm trying to convey information

0:58:50.970,0:58:53.250
and so to the extent that what that is

0:58:53.250,0:58:55.740
doing is creating a motion I have no

0:58:55.740,0:58:58.260
idea what to do with that I don't I'm

0:58:58.260,0:59:07.230
not I'm not trying to upset you I am

0:59:07.230,0:59:08.970
totally happy okay

0:59:08.970,0:59:10.230
okay I want to ask you another question

0:59:10.230,0:59:12.690
about you you know you blend this like

0:59:12.690,0:59:16.680
incredible wonkish attention to detail

0:59:16.680,0:59:19.920
with this the satirist sense of you know

0:59:19.920,0:59:22.080
the big picture and like weaving the

0:59:22.080,0:59:25.770
story together and doing it with all

0:59:25.770,0:59:30.150
this wit and glee and you know just

0:59:30.150,0:59:32.040
energy it's really remarkable to watch

0:59:32.040,0:59:34.260
and so you did a PhD in political

0:59:34.260,0:59:37.080
science which I assume a place right on

0:59:37.080,0:59:41.490
then steered poli-sci grad school

0:59:41.490,0:59:45.690
you are a certified wok but we're about

0:59:45.690,0:59:47.640
what about that storytelling craft and

0:59:47.640,0:59:49.170
that biting wit you have that you're so

0:59:49.170,0:59:51.060
famous for and that does draw people

0:59:51.060,0:59:52.800
into you know I think that's part of why

0:59:52.800,0:59:54.720
they get so emotionally engaged with you

0:59:54.720,0:59:56.849
where did that come from is that is

0:59:56.849,0:59:58.859
there was it always part of your

0:59:58.859,1:00:01.380
worldview or is there a person or an

1:00:01.380,1:00:03.510
experience you can point to that that

1:00:03.510,1:00:06.570
brought that to you I don't know I mean

1:00:06.570,1:00:09.930
I never intended to have this kind of a

1:00:09.930,1:00:11.910
career you know like I wasn't aiming at

1:00:11.910,1:00:14.339
media certainly I thought I was going to

1:00:14.339,1:00:18.089
be an activist and so I pursued my

1:00:18.089,1:00:21.000
academic career as sort of trying to

1:00:21.000,1:00:24.480
build myself a good toolkit for being a

1:00:24.480,1:00:27.690
better activist I never really I've

1:00:27.690,1:00:28.830
never really been a person who could

1:00:28.830,1:00:30.780
imagine my life very far into the future

1:00:30.780,1:00:35.490
which is some subject for therapy and we

1:00:35.490,1:00:38.910
could do it here but great time these

1:00:38.910,1:00:41.010
chairs are coming it's do you mind if I

1:00:41.010,1:00:45.810
lie down nicely and so I was sort of

1:00:45.810,1:00:47.970
doing that in a kind of utilitarian way

1:00:47.970,1:00:50.190
trying as an activist I felt like my

1:00:50.190,1:00:51.869
what I needed to be able to do was

1:00:51.869,1:00:53.250
understand the field in which I was

1:00:53.250,1:00:55.830
working I was an AIDS activist and then

1:00:55.830,1:00:57.330
ultimately became a prison reform

1:00:57.330,1:00:58.530
activists and those things were

1:00:58.530,1:01:01.140
connected and so I needed to understand

1:01:01.140,1:01:02.460
the field in which I was operating I

1:01:02.460,1:01:04.140
needed to be able to speak with lots of

1:01:04.140,1:01:06.450
different people in order to receive

1:01:06.450,1:01:08.070
information from experts in that field

1:01:08.070,1:01:09.630
and then I needed to be able to

1:01:09.630,1:01:13.410
synthesize the political aims of what I

1:01:13.410,1:01:16.080
was doing into a story that would make

1:01:16.080,1:01:17.930
the decision-maker change their mind and

1:01:17.930,1:01:21.240
so like I did public policy as my

1:01:21.240,1:01:23.580
undergraduate degree with a focus on

1:01:23.580,1:01:24.960
healthcare because I was an AIDS

1:01:24.960,1:01:26.339
activist and I felt like I needed that

1:01:26.339,1:01:28.500
but I did a essentially a minor like an

1:01:28.500,1:01:31.440
honors thing in in ethics which was the

1:01:31.440,1:01:33.089
way that at the school I went to that's

1:01:33.089,1:01:35.640
the way you minor in philosophy and the

1:01:35.640,1:01:36.990
reason I wanted to do philosophy is

1:01:36.990,1:01:38.250
because I felt like I wanted to be

1:01:38.250,1:01:41.490
better at making arguments and when it

1:01:41.490,1:01:45.060
came to doing a doctoral dissertation I

1:01:45.060,1:01:47.599
had done a really heavily quantitative

1:01:47.599,1:01:50.190
undergraduate degree I did a lot of

1:01:50.190,1:01:52.080
statistics and stuff just that was again

1:01:52.080,1:01:53.820
trying to become more literate in ways

1:01:53.820,1:01:54.180
that I

1:01:54.180,1:01:55.770
would help me make better arguments and

1:01:55.770,1:01:57.299
be better at what I was trying to do and

1:01:57.299,1:01:59.369
so I wanted to kind of balance that

1:01:59.369,1:02:02.010
another way and and tell a big story

1:02:02.010,1:02:04.349
about social movements and social change

1:02:04.349,1:02:05.339
and that's what I did my doctoral

1:02:05.339,1:02:06.990
dissertation on so much it's all about

1:02:06.990,1:02:08.640
like just trying to get the next thing

1:02:08.640,1:02:11.279
done that I wanted to do but I ended up

1:02:11.279,1:02:14.130
at the end of it having been an activist

1:02:14.130,1:02:16.589
from the time that I was 16 and having

1:02:16.589,1:02:18.420
been trained in argument and public

1:02:18.420,1:02:21.390
policy in the mean time and that ended

1:02:21.390,1:02:24.180
up unbeknownst to me being a good

1:02:24.180,1:02:25.589
background for doing the kind of work

1:02:25.589,1:02:27.059
that I do now but it wasn't what I was

1:02:27.059,1:02:30.799
aiming at and in terms of being goofy I

1:02:30.799,1:02:38.180
think I I mean I think I'm just immature

1:02:39.559,1:02:42.539
I mean I mean it literally I am immature

1:02:42.539,1:02:45.869
but I don't just mean it like making fun

1:02:45.869,1:02:47.849
of myself I think that I like have an

1:02:47.849,1:02:52.020
eight-year-old sense of humor and so

1:02:52.020,1:02:54.599
like the there's always going to be like

1:02:54.599,1:02:55.980
oh like there's going to be a fart joke

1:02:55.980,1:02:58.410
somewhere you know there's gonna be like

1:02:58.410,1:02:59.819
I had to tell them like doubles

1:02:59.819,1:03:03.869
excrement slays me like I'm kind of

1:03:03.869,1:03:09.569
eight and so I that's how I think and if

1:03:09.569,1:03:11.609
that's the way it comes out I think it

1:03:11.609,1:03:12.809
works for some people it doesn't work

1:03:12.809,1:03:15.150
for other people I mean there's a lot of

1:03:15.150,1:03:16.799
joking around in the book even though

1:03:16.799,1:03:18.960
this is a very serious oh it made me

1:03:18.960,1:03:22.289
laugh out loud it seemed in that right

1:03:22.289,1:03:23.970
so like I wrote a book six or seven

1:03:23.970,1:03:25.470
years ago about the military also had

1:03:25.470,1:03:27.510
lots of jokes and even people who like

1:03:27.510,1:03:30.089
they teach that book at the US Army War

1:03:30.089,1:03:32.849
College Wow right something is I've I've

1:03:32.849,1:03:34.440
lectured on the book at West Point it's

1:03:34.440,1:03:36.180
like it's great but like you'll talk to

1:03:36.180,1:03:37.770
somebody who's like really into the

1:03:37.770,1:03:39.420
Abrams doctrine and wants to talk about

1:03:39.420,1:03:42.270
Selective Service in 1974 but they like

1:03:42.270,1:03:44.460
are super mad about the jokes I made

1:03:44.460,1:03:47.880
about ed Meese I'm like looking at me I

1:03:47.880,1:03:50.520
am going to make jokes about him

1:03:50.520,1:03:52.320
works for some people it works as

1:03:52.320,1:03:53.760
leavening for some people but I think it

1:03:53.760,1:03:55.980
also it's like iron filings in the dip

1:03:55.980,1:03:57.920
for other people like it just doesn't

1:03:57.920,1:04:01.340
acquired taste

1:04:06.800,1:04:10.130
speaking of acquired taste

1:04:10.130,1:04:12.540
I'm so good it's not speaking of iron

1:04:12.540,1:04:13.130
filings

1:04:13.130,1:04:16.230
speaking of acquired taste so as in you

1:04:16.230,1:04:17.880
have an 8-year old sense of humor but

1:04:17.880,1:04:19.890
you are very adult when it comes to your

1:04:19.890,1:04:21.600
beverages of choice

1:04:21.600,1:04:23.760
I have never interviewed anyone who got

1:04:23.760,1:04:25.800
so many questions about cocktails oh

1:04:25.800,1:04:26.850
good

1:04:26.850,1:04:28.680
and Justin we can quickly digress a

1:04:28.680,1:04:31.980
woman named Jody Masterton Masterson hey

1:04:31.980,1:04:36.180
Jody you are very creative she suggested

1:04:36.180,1:04:38.160
this is just a few of a much longer list

1:04:38.160,1:04:40.200
of cocktail names that you might want to

1:04:40.200,1:04:43.110
sip on like belly up to the bar with two

1:04:43.110,1:04:46.610
R's Oh oh nice

1:04:46.670,1:04:56.760
wet your whistle blower cosmopolitan and

1:04:56.760,1:05:00.420
it groans the Leske which was the last

1:05:00.420,1:05:02.369
nigrum Celestia oh very nice

1:05:02.369,1:05:05.340
Celestia but the question I have is from

1:05:05.340,1:05:07.590
John known that last name and he asks

1:05:07.590,1:05:09.270
you what is the secret to a perfect

1:05:09.270,1:05:16.350
martini oh I could go on you know if you

1:05:16.350,1:05:19.730
know drinkers who are like semi-pro that

1:05:19.730,1:05:22.230
when we start talking about like the one

1:05:22.230,1:05:23.910
drink that means a lot to us it actually

1:05:23.910,1:05:27.000
becomes almost a form of bullying like I

1:05:27.000,1:05:28.320
have to be careful the way I talk about

1:05:28.320,1:05:30.060
a martini because I come across as such

1:05:30.060,1:05:34.530
a jerk so I'll be to the point vodka is

1:05:34.530,1:05:38.910
not an ingredient in martinis vodka

1:05:38.910,1:05:42.210
vodka isn't in there gin is in there but

1:05:42.210,1:05:43.830
there is another thing that has to be in

1:05:43.830,1:05:45.960
there there has to be vermouth this

1:05:45.960,1:05:47.790
whole thing about like Winston Churchill

1:05:47.790,1:05:49.800
used to glance at the vermouth and then

1:05:49.800,1:05:52.859
exam and then not allow it to touch them

1:05:52.859,1:05:54.900
or there's an atomizer with they're

1:05:54.900,1:05:57.330
supposed to be vermouth dry vermouth yes

1:05:57.330,1:06:00.060
okay and in I think the reason that

1:06:00.060,1:06:00.560
people

1:06:00.560,1:06:02.660
afraid of putting the proper amount of

1:06:02.660,1:06:04.220
dry vermouth in their martinis is

1:06:04.220,1:06:06.110
because somebody once served them

1:06:06.110,1:06:08.300
something they called a martini that was

1:06:08.300,1:06:11.060
accidentally made with vodka vodka mixes

1:06:11.060,1:06:12.920
terribly with vermouth and so of course

1:06:12.920,1:06:15.110
you want a very dry vodka martini

1:06:15.110,1:06:16.520
because what you really want is just a

1:06:16.520,1:06:21.500
glass of vodka if you are going to drink

1:06:21.500,1:06:24.170
a martini it's both gin and a good

1:06:24.170,1:06:26.120
amount like I do like a two-to-one some

1:06:26.120,1:06:29.300
people do a 50/50 gin vermouth with good

1:06:29.300,1:06:31.010
fresh vermouth that is a bottle that you

1:06:31.010,1:06:34.850
didn't open in the Jurassic era it goes

1:06:34.850,1:06:36.740
bad it's not that alcoholic you have to

1:06:36.740,1:06:38.210
keep it in the fridge after you open it

1:06:38.210,1:06:40.270
write the data on the label very

1:06:40.270,1:06:43.370
important and if you like a lemon twist

1:06:43.370,1:06:45.950
or an olive which are the only two

1:06:45.950,1:06:51.020
options you if you have a lemon twist

1:06:51.020,1:06:52.790
you do have the option of putting a

1:06:52.790,1:06:54.950
little bit of orange bitters in your

1:06:54.950,1:06:56.780
martini which does not taste like orange

1:06:56.780,1:06:58.940
but actually counterbalances the lemon

1:06:58.940,1:07:00.260
so you don't have a fruity drink I know

1:07:00.260,1:07:01.850
it sounds counterintuitive but it works

1:07:01.850,1:07:04.520
but you can't put orange bitters in your

1:07:04.520,1:07:06.110
martini if you're using an olive because

1:07:06.110,1:07:08.660
that's weird if you do use an olive it

1:07:08.660,1:07:11.510
has to be a green olive and it can have

1:07:11.510,1:07:13.400
a pimento if you want although it's not

1:07:13.400,1:07:15.170
supposed to it can't have anything else

1:07:15.170,1:07:19.040
inside it that's not a pimento and you

1:07:19.040,1:07:22.010
have to stir it and it can't be more

1:07:22.010,1:07:24.740
than three and a half ounces any other

1:07:24.740,1:07:27.250
questions

1:07:31.440,1:07:34.410
very nice things I could say about it

1:07:34.410,1:07:36.240
but I'll try to stop now maybe the next

1:07:36.240,1:07:38.490
book yeah I could write a whole book

1:07:38.490,1:07:39.900
just about how about whether in my

1:07:39.900,1:07:41.490
opinion I think that sounds a wonderful

1:07:41.490,1:07:45.539
I I want to shift gears quite a bit

1:07:45.539,1:07:49.859
Amanda Bolton says this is an audience

1:07:49.859,1:07:51.690
question president Trump frequently

1:07:51.690,1:07:53.700
postures and media's and adversary to

1:07:53.700,1:07:55.410
truth and freedom how does that change

1:07:55.410,1:07:57.539
the way you engage with the news or how

1:07:57.539,1:07:59.160
you present the news that's a very good

1:07:59.160,1:08:03.270
question all presidents hate the media

1:08:03.270,1:08:06.089
and all presidents feel like they are

1:08:06.089,1:08:08.130
uniquely horribly treated by the media

1:08:08.130,1:08:10.349
and maybe they're right

1:08:10.349,1:08:13.200
I mean maybe as we evolved as a country

1:08:13.200,1:08:15.510
we're meaner to each successive

1:08:15.510,1:08:17.880
president maybe I mean Who am I to say

1:08:17.880,1:08:19.859
that they have distorted perspective but

1:08:19.859,1:08:21.330
there is something different going on

1:08:21.330,1:08:25.770
with this president that is about trying

1:08:25.770,1:08:30.390
to deal Ajith amis the existence of

1:08:30.390,1:08:32.310
journalism in the United States writ

1:08:32.310,1:08:35.219
large the only other politician I know

1:08:35.219,1:08:38.130
who's ever tried this on for size was my

1:08:38.130,1:08:42.960
boyfriend Spiro Agnew which is part of

1:08:42.960,1:08:44.160
the reason that I wanted to do that

1:08:44.160,1:08:50.939
bagman podcast I did because I heard so

1:08:50.939,1:08:52.350
I went and listened to some of his

1:08:52.350,1:08:54.060
speeches where I mean he's like he's

1:08:54.060,1:08:55.620
famous for this nattering nabobs of

1:08:55.620,1:08:57.299
negativism

1:08:57.299,1:09:00.120
his real speeches where he attacked the

1:09:00.120,1:09:02.219
press and where he attacked the Justice

1:09:02.219,1:09:03.660
Department and the prosecutors who were

1:09:03.660,1:09:06.359
investigating him were like trump 1.0

1:09:06.359,1:09:09.899
really really and it was seen at the

1:09:09.899,1:09:13.319
time as profoundly dangerous and the way

1:09:13.319,1:09:15.569
that he attacked the media was

1:09:15.569,1:09:20.719
particularly sort of had a had a barely

1:09:20.719,1:09:24.000
camouflaged anti-semitic implication

1:09:24.000,1:09:26.160
that he would talk about the media and

1:09:26.160,1:09:28.589
the elites in a way that really he was

1:09:28.589,1:09:30.000
making it quite clear that it was about

1:09:30.000,1:09:31.679
the Jews and the Jews controlling

1:09:31.679,1:09:33.089
everything and the Jews being out to get

1:09:33.089,1:09:36.029
him and Agnew after he resigned the vice

1:09:36.029,1:09:37.859
presidency ultimately would go on to be

1:09:37.859,1:09:39.779
basically an international anti-semite

1:09:39.779,1:09:42.670
for hire where he would

1:09:42.670,1:09:45.729
in solicit income for an income from

1:09:45.729,1:09:48.100
foreign governments that wanted to stir

1:09:48.100,1:09:50.140
up anger against American Jews literally

1:09:50.140,1:09:52.569
that's what he did to make money and so

1:09:52.569,1:09:56.230
I feel like Agnew's ghost helps us

1:09:56.230,1:10:01.450
understand how malignant this is and how

1:10:01.450,1:10:07.810
close it is to really really dark even

1:10:07.810,1:10:12.760
fistic aims and I also can see that it's

1:10:12.760,1:10:14.020
an offshoot of what other presidents

1:10:14.020,1:10:15.160
have done in terms of their complaining

1:10:15.160,1:10:17.350
and so recognizing that this could

1:10:17.350,1:10:21.580
curdle very badly and it's it's it edges

1:10:21.580,1:10:23.860
up against that and I see that I also

1:10:23.860,1:10:27.370
feel like the solution to it is not to

1:10:27.370,1:10:30.220
get as serious about it but rather to

1:10:30.220,1:10:34.990
try to brush it off a little bit and in

1:10:34.990,1:10:38.080
my own life part of what it means is

1:10:38.080,1:10:39.910
that I sort of refused to play these

1:10:39.910,1:10:41.590
games where they try to turn us in the

1:10:41.590,1:10:43.960
media against each other I know that

1:10:43.960,1:10:45.640
people have different views about how

1:10:45.640,1:10:47.500
best to approach this presidency and how

1:10:47.500,1:10:49.390
best to approach journalism and some

1:10:49.390,1:10:51.070
people think cable news is evil and some

1:10:51.070,1:10:52.690
people are mad at the New York Times and

1:10:52.690,1:10:54.670
some people think that the you know Jeff

1:10:54.670,1:10:56.470
Bezos iteration of the Washington Post

1:10:56.470,1:10:58.060
means a thing and some people really

1:10:58.060,1:11:00.370
hate Fox News even the news side of Fox

1:11:00.370,1:11:03.670
News inside and I I feel like at this

1:11:03.670,1:11:06.820
point we're if we're in the if we're in

1:11:06.820,1:11:08.650
the news business and we're in the

1:11:08.650,1:11:10.270
journalism business then we are all on

1:11:10.270,1:11:11.860
the same side and even the people who

1:11:11.860,1:11:18.940
hate me I will love back and so it's a

1:11:18.940,1:11:20.230
it's I mean

1:11:20.230,1:11:22.930
if is everybody here subscribed to their

1:11:22.930,1:11:25.360
local public radio station do you pay

1:11:25.360,1:11:27.610
money if you're look pay money to your

1:11:27.610,1:11:28.870
local public radio station you have a

1:11:28.870,1:11:30.820
great public radio here you really do

1:11:30.820,1:11:32.800
and it needs and to support local

1:11:32.800,1:11:34.720
reporting the best thing you can do for

1:11:34.720,1:11:36.700
journalism in your country I don't know

1:11:36.700,1:11:37.960
what's going on at Chicago unless

1:11:37.960,1:11:40.060
they're Chicago reporters reporting it

1:11:40.060,1:11:41.530
in a way that I can pick up in New York

1:11:41.530,1:11:43.360
and make into a national story right I

1:11:43.360,1:11:44.560
wouldn't have took I wouldn't have had

1:11:44.560,1:11:46.330
the Flint water story had there not been

1:11:46.330,1:11:48.340
local reporters working in Michigan and

1:11:48.340,1:11:49.650
Clinton telling that

1:11:49.650,1:11:52.709
like you can't survive with the national

1:11:52.709,1:11:53.999
media even if it's a great national

1:11:53.999,1:11:56.010
media that you like have to support

1:11:56.010,1:11:58.590
local local journalism and you need to

1:11:58.590,1:12:01.260
support journalism as a craft I don't

1:12:01.260,1:12:04.380
know if in if your kid or if you've got

1:12:04.380,1:12:07.320
kids or grandkids who are in middle

1:12:07.320,1:12:09.360
school and high school right now but do

1:12:09.360,1:12:12.119
you know if at the middle school or high

1:12:12.119,1:12:15.269
school that attends to your family do

1:12:15.269,1:12:17.150
you know if they've got a student paper

1:12:17.150,1:12:19.920
if they don't have a student paper would

1:12:19.920,1:12:21.449
you consider getting together with some

1:12:21.449,1:12:24.209
of your friends and endowing one if

1:12:24.209,1:12:26.280
they're not if they've got that would

1:12:26.280,1:12:29.880
you consider endowing proto television

1:12:29.880,1:12:33.119
journalism podcast for the jet for the

1:12:33.119,1:12:34.650
journalism class and the 6th grade at

1:12:34.650,1:12:36.420
your local middle school I mean we need

1:12:36.420,1:12:39.090
to grow investigative reporters by the

1:12:39.090,1:12:41.429
bushel in this country for the sake of

1:12:41.429,1:12:45.479
our democracy we were we were talking

1:12:45.479,1:12:48.269
backstage and I get nutrients need two

1:12:48.269,1:12:49.800
more questions in concern now I gotta

1:12:49.800,1:12:51.479
let you go I'm sorry I've talked so long

1:12:51.479,1:12:55.320
you're amazing no apologies this is kind

1:12:55.320,1:12:56.550
of a great time for journalism we were

1:12:56.550,1:12:59.489
talking about that your book which not

1:12:59.489,1:13:02.010
only paints this incredible picture of

1:13:02.010,1:13:04.409
the the the threat of the oil and gas

1:13:04.409,1:13:06.360
industry and why we need to think about

1:13:06.360,1:13:09.150
this and become closer to it but the

1:13:09.150,1:13:10.469
number of excellent reporters

1:13:10.469,1:13:12.239
represented in it whose work you bring

1:13:12.239,1:13:14.369
back to life if we feel like we don't

1:13:14.369,1:13:16.229
have access to useful information that's

1:13:16.229,1:13:17.729
really not the case there's so many

1:13:17.729,1:13:20.670
amazing reporters we were talking in

1:13:20.670,1:13:23.219
backstage about she said by Jody Kanter

1:13:23.219,1:13:24.719
Megan Chui who are joining us next

1:13:24.719,1:13:27.179
Tuesday I'm very excited and their book

1:13:27.179,1:13:29.610
and then Ronin Pharaohs catch and kill

1:13:29.610,1:13:31.889
now these are two books that talk about

1:13:31.889,1:13:34.619
the media in different ways she said is

1:13:34.619,1:13:36.869
about the the force of the New York

1:13:36.869,1:13:38.820
Times and how that helped them carry

1:13:38.820,1:13:41.190
that investigation for it gave them a

1:13:41.190,1:13:43.289
certain credibility pharaoh has a

1:13:43.289,1:13:45.090
different experience he says the media

1:13:45.090,1:13:48.590
company MSNBC NBC that he worked with in

1:13:48.590,1:13:51.989
stymied him tried to shut down and I'm

1:13:51.989,1:13:54.840
wondering given that there are both

1:13:54.840,1:13:57.160
books about me too

1:13:57.160,1:13:59.110
and given that you've just thought a lot

1:13:59.110,1:14:02.020
about corporate responsibility visa vie

1:14:02.020,1:14:05.530
the oil gas industry and the ways in

1:14:05.530,1:14:07.660
which governance can get twisted with

1:14:07.660,1:14:09.190
sort of trying to serve shareholder

1:14:09.190,1:14:11.440
values mm-hmm what do you think the role

1:14:11.440,1:14:13.570
of corporate responsibility is in

1:14:13.570,1:14:19.840
relationship to me to boy I mean first

1:14:19.840,1:14:21.970
of all I think that media companies are

1:14:21.970,1:14:25.090
companies and companies need to be

1:14:25.090,1:14:28.660
internally improving on these issues

1:14:28.660,1:14:31.240
right that the ways of doing business in

1:14:31.240,1:14:32.890
the media business and in lots of other

1:14:32.890,1:14:36.250
big business have to change and when

1:14:36.250,1:14:38.200
there is a reckoning in these things the

1:14:38.200,1:14:39.340
companies need to recognize that

1:14:39.340,1:14:41.470
evolution and not resistance is the way

1:14:41.470,1:14:45.100
to deal with those things and so I think

1:14:45.100,1:14:47.680
first and foremost media companies need

1:14:47.680,1:14:49.000
to be seen as companies that need to do

1:14:49.000,1:14:52.020
their own work there in terms of the

1:14:52.020,1:14:55.390
reporting around me to stuff I mean the

1:14:55.390,1:14:57.310
to the extent that there are gatekeepers

1:14:57.310,1:14:59.050
for this kind of stuff if the

1:14:59.050,1:15:00.610
gatekeepers are compromised the stories

1:15:00.610,1:15:02.320
aren't going to get out but that just

1:15:02.320,1:15:04.690
creates I mean Ronan's book right as far

1:15:04.690,1:15:08.680
as I understand it is a story that he

1:15:08.680,1:15:10.600
was chasing which is about Weinstein and

1:15:10.600,1:15:12.490
then the other story that he discovered

1:15:12.490,1:15:15.130
along the way when he started to

1:15:15.130,1:15:16.870
investigate what was keeping him from

1:15:16.870,1:15:18.760
getting the story about Weinstein and

1:15:18.760,1:15:21.730
the proper outcome of that process is

1:15:21.730,1:15:24.100
that he is able in the end to tell both

1:15:24.100,1:15:25.900
stories one of those stories who want to

1:15:25.900,1:15:27.580
pull out surprised for and one of them

1:15:27.580,1:15:28.540
he's about to have a number one

1:15:28.540,1:15:29.950
best-selling book that's gonna knock me

1:15:29.950,1:15:34.690
off the charts and so I mean I think

1:15:34.690,1:15:37.660
I've read Megan and Jodi's book I've not

1:15:37.660,1:15:39.820
read Megan Ronan's book cause it's not

1:15:39.820,1:15:43.560
out but I one of the things that I am

1:15:43.560,1:15:48.190
incredibly buoyed by for both of them is

1:15:48.190,1:15:50.290
that I think those books are gonna make

1:15:50.290,1:15:52.120
people who read them in college decide

1:15:52.120,1:15:54.280
to go to journalism school because it is

1:15:54.280,1:15:57.190
about the nobility and bravery and civic

1:15:57.190,1:15:59.290
mindedness and rigor of journalism done

1:15:59.290,1:16:01.750
well and it's as exciting as hell I mean

1:16:01.750,1:16:05.500
it really really is and so that's what

1:16:05.500,1:16:08.010
welcoming

1:16:08.970,1:16:12.490
so speaking of nobility and bravery and

1:16:12.490,1:16:14.350
civic mindedness and this is the last

1:16:14.350,1:16:18.550
question I hate love you to stay for an

1:16:18.550,1:16:22.060
hour way back in 2010 in regard to fake

1:16:22.060,1:16:24.040
politics and the dearth of political

1:16:24.040,1:16:26.440
facts you said on your show let's argue

1:16:26.440,1:16:28.630
let's have the great American debate

1:16:28.630,1:16:30.430
about the role of government and the

1:16:30.430,1:16:32.560
best policies for the country it's fun

1:16:32.560,1:16:35.620
it's citizenship its activism it makes

1:16:35.620,1:16:37.210
the country better when we have those

1:16:37.210,1:16:39.460
debates and your country needs you it

1:16:39.460,1:16:42.880
needs all of you it needs all of us so

1:16:42.880,1:16:45.220
if we armed with one of your fabulous

1:16:45.220,1:16:48.670
martinis take those hard marching orders

1:16:48.670,1:16:50.920
how do we leave tonight and start that

1:16:50.920,1:16:53.890
debate Wow

1:16:53.890,1:16:59.100
I would I would say a couple of things I

1:16:59.100,1:17:02.740
do I do I am not a particularly green

1:17:02.740,1:17:04.660
person like I don't come from an

1:17:04.660,1:17:07.180
environmental background my partner's

1:17:07.180,1:17:08.740
very green and like kind of tried to

1:17:08.740,1:17:10.510
make our lives more sustainable and

1:17:10.510,1:17:12.400
everything and I just I'm not really

1:17:12.400,1:17:13.690
wired that way and I'm trying to get

1:17:13.690,1:17:15.460
better having written this book about

1:17:15.460,1:17:17.530
the oil and gas industry and the way it

1:17:17.530,1:17:21.190
is corrosive toward our ability to make

1:17:21.190,1:17:24.370
good democratic decisions now on the way

1:17:24.370,1:17:26.860
toward the climate apocalypse you think

1:17:26.860,1:17:29.140
that would motivate me to be like you

1:17:29.140,1:17:31.890
know like taking a sailboat everywhere

1:17:31.890,1:17:34.990
and I'm I'm not I'm intellectually there

1:17:34.990,1:17:37.270
but my life hasn't changed to make those

1:17:37.270,1:17:38.980
accounts and so I feel you know

1:17:38.980,1:17:41.020
embarrassed about that and humble about

1:17:41.020,1:17:43.060
that but I also feel like it's worth

1:17:43.060,1:17:46.900
being real about that and we don't we're

1:17:46.900,1:17:48.370
not all going to become full-time

1:17:48.370,1:17:51.580
activists and we're not all going to run

1:17:51.580,1:17:54.210
for office and we're not all going to

1:17:54.210,1:17:58.480
lead a movement but we can all do

1:17:58.480,1:18:00.610
something more than we are already doing

1:18:00.610,1:18:04.260
and if

1:18:04.449,1:18:08.320
you are incredibly motivated by the

1:18:08.320,1:18:11.019
president if you have if you feel like

1:18:11.019,1:18:13.360
president Trump is a motivating force

1:18:13.360,1:18:14.769
like nothing you've ever had in your

1:18:14.769,1:18:18.969
life the what in your life shows that if

1:18:18.969,1:18:23.349
you want him out of office or if your

1:18:23.349,1:18:25.179
incredible supporter of President Trump

1:18:25.179,1:18:26.320
and you really want him to stay in

1:18:26.320,1:18:28.149
office what are you doing to make that

1:18:28.149,1:18:32.320
happen this is a time when I think we

1:18:32.320,1:18:33.820
have all started to realize that you

1:18:33.820,1:18:36.459
can't necessarily know what the thing is

1:18:36.459,1:18:38.979
that's gonna make the difference in the

1:18:38.979,1:18:39.489
world

1:18:39.489,1:18:41.469
you can't know what's gonna inspire

1:18:41.469,1:18:43.659
people right I mean these viral moments

1:18:43.659,1:18:45.760
that spread on social media of regular

1:18:45.760,1:18:47.559
people doing things on the middle of a

1:18:47.559,1:18:49.059
day when they woke up that morning and

1:18:49.059,1:18:50.199
thought it was gonna be a day like no

1:18:50.199,1:18:51.699
other and they ended up doing something

1:18:51.699,1:18:53.499
that changed the conversation of the

1:18:53.499,1:18:55.269
country of 300 million people for a week

1:18:55.269,1:18:58.179
you know we're in a position right now

1:18:58.179,1:19:00.489
where our ability as individual citizens

1:19:00.489,1:19:03.219
to do stuff gives us a new form of

1:19:03.219,1:19:06.070
responsibility and to the extent that

1:19:06.070,1:19:09.099
the climate matters to you are you doing

1:19:09.099,1:19:10.749
other kind of political work and can you

1:19:10.749,1:19:12.669
factor climate into that to the extent

1:19:12.669,1:19:14.110
that the president matters to you or

1:19:14.110,1:19:15.939
this next election matters to you what

1:19:15.939,1:19:18.459
are you doing not just to follow it on

1:19:18.459,1:19:20.559
TV but to actually participate try to

1:19:20.559,1:19:22.209
try as much as you can to change the

1:19:22.209,1:19:23.320
outcome and the way that you want it to

1:19:23.320,1:19:27.969
go I just think this is just close are

1:19:27.969,1:19:30.579
saying this having all of you guys here

1:19:30.579,1:19:33.760
in person to me is the reason I was so

1:19:33.760,1:19:34.840
like nervous and jittery at the

1:19:34.840,1:19:37.059
beginning is because we spend all of our

1:19:37.059,1:19:39.880
times with our screens on right I mean

1:19:39.880,1:19:41.559
you guys see me behind the TV screen I

1:19:41.559,1:19:43.749
know but we also spend all of our times

1:19:43.749,1:19:44.919
with our through all of our time with

1:19:44.919,1:19:46.269
our phones and with our computer screens

1:19:46.269,1:19:48.010
and that's so much the way that we

1:19:48.010,1:19:49.899
understand the mediated world right now

1:19:49.899,1:19:52.599
but none of you are doing that right now

1:19:52.599,1:19:54.309
you're all here in person you came out

1:19:54.309,1:19:57.820
here bodily to see me in person to be

1:19:57.820,1:19:59.709
among all of these other thousands of

1:19:59.709,1:20:01.809
you who came out to do this in person to

1:20:01.809,1:20:04.570
be at a live event to imbibe words to

1:20:04.570,1:20:06.579
hear a conversation to have new thoughts

1:20:06.579,1:20:08.139
and to be around your fellow man while

1:20:08.139,1:20:10.209
doing it and that is something that you

1:20:10.209,1:20:12.429
don't have to do but you did it and

1:20:12.429,1:20:14.320
you're here and it means the world to me

1:20:14.320,1:20:15.959
and to me

1:20:15.959,1:20:17.999
when we are willing to show up someplace

1:20:17.999,1:20:19.650
when we were actually willing to bodily

1:20:19.650,1:20:22.800
be there it's transformative not only

1:20:22.800,1:20:24.709
potentially for the world but for us and

1:20:24.709,1:20:28.619
so I just it means a lot for me to see

1:20:28.619,1:20:29.999
you guys right now and I would just say

1:20:29.999,1:20:32.010
to do your own inventory in terms of

1:20:32.010,1:20:33.780
what matters to you and what you can

1:20:33.780,1:20:35.340
maximize in your life in terms of what

1:20:35.340,1:20:38.150
you're doing to bring that about

1:20:43.219,1:20:46.949
what an awesome love to end on a chill

1:20:46.949,1:20:48.460
that Oh

1:20:48.460,1:20:51.789
[Applause]

1:20:52.060,1:20:58.250
I'm sorry about your dating thing it was

1:20:58.250,1:20:59.250
a good news a good sign

1:20:59.250,1:21:09.250
[Applause]

1:21:09.570,1:21:11.630
you