WEBVTT
00:00:02.381 --> 00:00:11.413
36C3 preroll music
00:00:19.215 --> 00:00:25.060
Herald: Okay. As you probably know, Julian
Assange, as well as his colleagues and
00:00:25.060 --> 00:00:30.450
friends and associates, were extensively
surveilled during his time at the embassy.
00:00:30.450 --> 00:00:36.680
And our next speaker, Andy, is going to
talk about procedural and technical
00:00:36.680 --> 00:00:42.660
details of that surveillance, which is
what we're really interested in, that's
00:00:42.660 --> 00:00:48.940
why the room is full. So, Andy, "Technical
Aspects of the Surveillance in and around
00:00:48.940 --> 00:00:53.230
the Ecuadorian Embassy in London", please
give him a warm round of applause.
00:00:53.230 --> 00:01:02.130
applause
00:01:02.390 --> 00:01:05.519
Andy Müller-Maguhn: Okay. Good morning,
everybody. I'm holding this talk,
00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:10.650
actually, for the second time. The first
time was on day one, but somehow the video
00:01:10.650 --> 00:01:17.460
recording got fucked up. I would say CIA,
but at this early time of the talk you
00:01:17.460 --> 00:01:23.437
might think I'm paranoid, but I'm... well,
we can discuss that after my talk again.
00:01:23.437 --> 00:01:26.787
laughter
applause
00:01:26.787 --> 00:01:31.639
Andy: The two dis...
oh fuck...
00:01:31.639 --> 00:01:35.832
laughter
00:01:39.694 --> 00:01:42.055
Herald: Anyone here who knows computers?
00:01:42.055 --> 00:01:44.597
laughter
00:01:54.009 --> 00:01:58.799
Andy: Let's try again. Does this work?
00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:03.690
applause
00:02:03.690 --> 00:02:07.020
Andy: OK. So, the presentation does cover
00:02:07.020 --> 00:02:13.579
some, but not... gosh, being awake on day
4... This presentation does cover some,
00:02:13.579 --> 00:02:19.970
but not all aspects of the surveillance.
There is, of course, stuff happened on the
00:02:19.970 --> 00:02:27.310
wireless network, on the bound network.
There was more things going on. There was
00:02:27.310 --> 00:02:31.489
an ongoing heat in the embassy, which made
us think they might be using nanometer
00:02:31.489 --> 00:02:36.959
waves to look through the walls and from
the ceilings above and below and so on.
00:02:36.959 --> 00:02:43.200
However, we are still getting
documentation about other things. So this
00:02:43.200 --> 00:02:46.919
is like the state of affairs right now. I
will probably make a long video of
00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:54.189
explaining things with also more details
later this year. Second disclaimer, what
00:02:54.189 --> 00:03:01.370
I'm presenting is mostly stuff from a
company called Undercover Global. They are
00:03:01.370 --> 00:03:09.540
subject to an ongoing lawsuit. The owner
of the company and CEO has been accepting
00:03:09.540 --> 00:03:15.819
third party instructions and a lot of
money and has been modifying the official
00:03:15.819 --> 00:03:22.000
product, cause and technology used. He's
investigated for violating laws of
00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:29.150
privacy, secrecy of lawyer-client-attorney
thingy, whatever the English term is,
00:03:29.150 --> 00:03:33.669
bribery, money laundering and so on. And
also the Spanish justice has very
00:03:33.669 --> 00:03:39.349
officially started investigation for a
spying foreign foreign intelligence
00:03:39.349 --> 00:03:44.919
service, namely the CIA. At the time of
the presentation right today, however, he
00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:50.819
is not charged. So this is a subject of
ongoing things. And of course, we don't
00:03:50.819 --> 00:03:56.790
have the material from other intelligence
services who have been working around the
00:03:56.790 --> 00:04:03.569
embassy although we have some indications
of what they have been doing. As this is a
00:04:03.569 --> 00:04:09.599
rather 80 slide plus videos presentation,
I thought it's a good idea to give you a
00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:15.709
rough overview of what this is about. I'm
trying to give you the big picture, the
00:04:15.709 --> 00:04:21.330
embassy overview, so that you understand
the building, the rooms and so on. The so-
00:04:21.330 --> 00:04:27.110
called "Operation Hotel", that was the
official task of the company at the time
00:04:27.110 --> 00:04:32.540
to protect the embassy against people
intruding and so on, taking care of the
00:04:32.540 --> 00:04:37.680
guests, so they had their own terminology.
The standard operational procedures in
00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:44.580
place, the modifications that, as
indicated, David Morales instructed or got
00:04:44.580 --> 00:04:51.520
instructed from US intelligence to do.
Overview of what they collected on
00:04:51.520 --> 00:04:56.840
visitors. Then, there was a special event
in December 2017 when they went actually
00:04:56.840 --> 00:05:02.930
through the whole embassy to identify all
kinds of objects. They documented every
00:05:02.930 --> 00:05:08.630
piece of furniture to see where they could
include more hidden bugs and other things
00:05:08.630 --> 00:05:18.510
and upgrades to the security situation. A
short thing about what Julian did to
00:05:18.510 --> 00:05:24.320
counter the surveillance and how they
countered his countermeasures. And then at
00:05:24.320 --> 00:05:28.180
the end, something about the term
"Actionable Intelligence", which becomes
00:05:28.180 --> 00:05:35.860
very plastic. The context is, of course,
that Julian has taken the idea of the
00:05:35.860 --> 00:05:41.500
hacker ethic, said all information should
be free, serious to an extent, and has
00:05:41.500 --> 00:05:46.010
been committed to that, that we can, of
course, also say, well, he has won
00:05:46.010 --> 00:05:50.360
probably one of the highest journalistic
prizes being carried out out of a
00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:58.680
protected embassy. That's quite a reward
and quite a recognition that he and the
00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:03.340
people in power he exposed had the
impression that they don't fit together on
00:06:03.340 --> 00:06:10.340
the same planet in this situation.
However, the big picture is to make you
00:06:10.340 --> 00:06:16.280
understand the historic overview of
events. So there was a initial phase when
00:06:16.280 --> 00:06:21.090
he got into the embassy when they were
actually unprepared, of course, for him
00:06:21.090 --> 00:06:26.240
coming in there. And they actually had a
surveillance camera for checking the
00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:32.180
visitors before they entered the building.
But that was more or less it. Then in 2015
00:06:32.180 --> 00:06:37.620
this company got engaged and installed a
lot of things. There was, however, three
00:06:37.620 --> 00:06:44.920
different phases which I want to separate
here for you to understand when the first
00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:51.120
phase was under U.S. President Obama and
the more left wing government of Ecuador
00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:57.120
under President Correa. However, right at
the beginning of the engagement of
00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:03.530
Undercover Global for the Ecuadorian
foreign ministry to protect the embassy he
00:07:03.530 --> 00:07:11.550
went to a security conference, or however,
to Las Vegas and presented his little
00:07:11.550 --> 00:07:16.450
company and the one customer they had. So
that's so much about the size of the
00:07:16.450 --> 00:07:19.720
company. He presented like the one
customer, the one project they did that
00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:25.200
was taking care of the embassy and of
course quickly found interested parties
00:07:25.200 --> 00:07:32.340
from the US security environment to boost
up his career. And so his spying for third
00:07:32.340 --> 00:07:37.340
party started right away. At the beginning
he received payments from a company called
00:07:37.340 --> 00:07:42.310
Las Vegas Sense that's owned by Sheldon
Adelson. He was officially hired to take
00:07:42.310 --> 00:07:47.870
care of a yacht of Sheldon Adelson
although that yacht already had a security
00:07:47.870 --> 00:07:54.460
team. So there's ongoing investigations
also where the money came from and so on.
00:07:54.460 --> 00:08:02.900
However, in phase two, 2017, so after some
publications had upset the US maybe even
00:08:02.900 --> 00:08:10.560
more and also the Ecuadorian government
had changed in the midst of or the
00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:17.250
beginning of 2017. They started serious
modifications of the protocol. Not only
00:08:17.250 --> 00:08:20.190
that he switched to encrypted
communication with his employees, with his
00:08:20.190 --> 00:08:27.430
instructions. He also, like, pressured
from his American friends, the wish to
00:08:27.430 --> 00:08:33.250
have covert audio bugs, higher resolution
cameras, and also cameras in all rooms
00:08:33.250 --> 00:08:40.449
with audio. We can say pretty sure that
this has been done on behalf of the US as
00:08:40.449 --> 00:08:45.720
the emails he sent to instruct this
modifications - we have all those emails -
00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:49.329
the emails show the IP numbers they have
been sending for, the lawyers have
00:08:49.329 --> 00:08:55.990
analyzed this. So we know that he has been
in Virginia Arlington and in Las Vegas and
00:08:55.990 --> 00:09:01.230
other places, when he came with these
instructions. Also his language, his
00:09:01.230 --> 00:09:05.580
English was not very good and technically,
he was not very sophisticated, but he
00:09:05.580 --> 00:09:10.649
sometimes sent instructions in very good
English with presentations and detailed
00:09:10.649 --> 00:09:17.640
technical details that clearly came not
from him, which also was obtained. So we
00:09:17.640 --> 00:09:24.519
are pretty confident in these things that we
claim here. And then there was something
00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:28.990
going on at the end of 2017, which I'll
explain later. However, I want to point
00:09:28.990 --> 00:09:36.480
out a complete different thing, which
might be or might have led to confusion.
00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:42.279
At April 2018 two things happened: The
Ecuadorians, the new government of
00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:47.290
Ecuador, made a mutual legal assistance
agreement with the United States in the
00:09:47.290 --> 00:09:53.839
investigation against Assange, as they
justified it with the interference in the
00:09:53.839 --> 00:10:00.550
elections, so to give the Ecuadorians like
a plausible reason to help them. The
00:10:00.550 --> 00:10:04.620
cooperation with UC Global was canceled
because they were unsatisfied with their
00:10:04.620 --> 00:10:09.790
quality of their work. And they installed
a second company called Prom Security,
00:10:09.790 --> 00:10:15.362
which is an Ecuadorian company made up by
a former colonel of their local
00:10:15.362 --> 00:10:20.920
intelligence, which then did the
surveillance. And probably that material
00:10:20.920 --> 00:10:26.700
could more easily be used in any legal
proceedings as everything that happened
00:10:26.700 --> 00:10:34.899
before was plainly illegal. However, the
material of that second company landed
00:10:34.899 --> 00:10:40.420
partly in an extortion attempt against
WikiLeaks, against Julian, against...
00:10:40.420 --> 00:10:45.600
Kristinn met these guys with undercover
Spanish police, so the current editor in
00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:50.869
chief of WikiLeaks, and that's subject to
a lawsuit also. And there is also
00:10:50.869 --> 00:10:54.529
publications about that. But my
presentation is mainly about this first
00:10:54.529 --> 00:11:02.110
phase until April 2018 to avoid that
potential confusion. Also it's maybe worth
00:11:02.110 --> 00:11:07.199
to point out that all Julian's belongings,
like his computers, his notes and material
00:11:07.199 --> 00:11:12.369
and so on, has all been confiscated by the
Ecuadorians and directly given to the
00:11:12.369 --> 00:11:20.240
United States based on this agreement they
made in April 2018. So here you get a
00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:24.450
rough overview of the embassy. It's not
the whole building, it's just the flat on
00:11:24.450 --> 00:11:29.390
the ground floor here on the left side,
going all the way down that little street
00:11:29.390 --> 00:11:35.319
on the left where actually Harrods, the
shopping mall, Harrods has their delivery
00:11:35.319 --> 00:11:41.329
acceptance situation. So this is like from
the side view. On the right side, you see
00:11:41.329 --> 00:11:47.329
the emergency exit of the embassy. Again,
side view and on the right, you see the
00:11:47.329 --> 00:11:52.619
courtyard. This is the entrance situation,
in the building there is more embassies.
00:11:52.619 --> 00:11:57.470
The Colombian embassy is right on the
right side, for example. There is one more
00:11:57.470 --> 00:12:02.100
which I don't recall which it is, however
you see here the entrance door of the
00:12:02.100 --> 00:12:08.119
embassy and here the entrance situation
from a different camera perspective. Here
00:12:08.119 --> 00:12:14.829
you would have an overview of the
installed cameras before the upgrades in
00:12:14.829 --> 00:12:22.490
December 2017. So most important is maybe
this "Sala de reunion" on the upper left
00:12:22.490 --> 00:12:27.010
side, not on the left corner, but once to
the right, that's the meeting room. And
00:12:27.010 --> 00:12:31.830
here you see that there was only until
then one camera. This is where most of the
00:12:31.830 --> 00:12:36.410
meetings with visitors, with lawyers and
so on took place. However, all the green
00:12:36.410 --> 00:12:41.400
areas do not only indicate you where video
surveillance took place, but all the
00:12:41.400 --> 00:12:47.629
interior ones are exactly the areas Julian
was officially allowed to like use,
00:12:47.629 --> 00:12:52.769
including the kitchen on the right side on
the very right bottom "Habitacio n
00:12:52.769 --> 00:13:00.279
Huesped" that's his kind of small sleeping
room where he had his bed and things. And
00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:05.480
you would see the entrance situation
there. Outside they also had some cameras,
00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:11.310
which they had one 8 megapixel 360 degree
monster, which actually made me think I
00:13:11.310 --> 00:13:20.560
want that as well. This is the more
harmless cameras on the sideways. But you
00:13:20.560 --> 00:13:28.610
see here the idea of that camera. That's
pretty good. It even catched some events
00:13:28.610 --> 00:13:35.449
which I will indicate you later. So you get
the idea. Harrods is right next. And also
00:13:35.449 --> 00:13:42.940
right left is this entrance delivery
situation. "Operation Hotel" was the code
00:13:42.940 --> 00:13:48.860
name of the official security situation.
So they had their own terminology:
00:13:48.860 --> 00:13:53.579
"Director" was the ambassador, "Guest" was
Julian Assange, "Hotel" was the embassy.
00:13:53.579 --> 00:13:58.779
They, of course, had specific processes in
place, how regular, how visitors would be
00:13:58.779 --> 00:14:03.689
accepted. They sometimes in most of the
times needed to be signed off by the
00:14:03.689 --> 00:14:07.709
ambassador. So the ambassador had to allow
someone getting into the building in the
00:14:07.709 --> 00:14:12.629
first place and how that would be treated,
how their passports would be checked,
00:14:12.629 --> 00:14:17.319
their electronics would be taken and so
on. There was an official representative
00:14:17.319 --> 00:14:25.610
of the Ecuadorian intelligence titled the
second secretary of the ambassador called
00:14:25.610 --> 00:14:31.069
Gabriela PAIZ. She was working in the
embassy and officially in charge of taking
00:14:31.069 --> 00:14:37.439
care of the company's contract and their
work. However, she got bribed, according
00:14:37.439 --> 00:14:43.660
to statements that are subject to this
ongoing lawsuit, with 20,000 USD in cash
00:14:43.660 --> 00:14:49.680
per month. She had to travel with her
husband to some funny places to collect
00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:54.569
the money to not violate European
regulations with carrying cash and not
00:14:54.569 --> 00:15:00.089
declaring it and so on. So this gives you
roughly an idea and for that money she
00:15:00.089 --> 00:15:05.180
like not only accepted the modifications
and made it look like that modification of
00:15:05.180 --> 00:15:10.279
the protocol were on behalf of Ecuador and
not on behalf of the Americans, she also
00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:16.679
spied sometimes herself, as we have seen
her with a handbag, with a microphone and
00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:22.649
all that kind of funny behaviors. The
original Standard Operational Procedures
00:15:22.649 --> 00:15:29.670
in place, as I said, was defined helping
against intrusions. Visitors would arrive
00:15:29.670 --> 00:15:34.839
at the door, show their passport, then
would be searched with a metal detector
00:15:34.839 --> 00:15:38.589
and they would have to leave their
passport and all electronic devices at the
00:15:38.589 --> 00:15:44.070
security counter under the lobby. They
would sign in into some kind of a diary
00:15:44.070 --> 00:15:49.249
with name, passport number, date, time of
arrival, later sign out with time of their
00:15:49.249 --> 00:15:53.410
departure. The guards would bring the
visitors afterwards in the conference
00:15:53.410 --> 00:15:59.959
room, close the door and then copy the
passport while the visitors wait. And also
00:15:59.959 --> 00:16:04.629
there would be daily, monthly and special
incident reports written by the security
00:16:04.629 --> 00:16:10.799
company delivered to the SENAIN, to the
Ecuadorian intelligence. So, from the
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:16.329
visitors, what they would have is like who
invited them, for what, what date, what
00:16:16.329 --> 00:16:21.269
time frame, the copy of their passport.
Later then, that one had modifications,
00:16:21.269 --> 00:16:25.779
that was that all of their pages with
entry stamps and visas would be
00:16:25.779 --> 00:16:31.889
photocopied as well. The exact time when
they really came, the description by the
00:16:31.889 --> 00:16:37.130
security guards how they appeared: maybe
if they came alone or with someone or it
00:16:37.130 --> 00:16:42.230
was anything. Video footage of the entry
situation, the meeting and the departure
00:16:42.230 --> 00:16:48.949
situation. And as I said, extra incidents.
So we would have a lot of material of
00:16:48.949 --> 00:16:57.259
passport copies. And this is an example of
the entrance situation from November 16.
00:16:57.259 --> 00:17:03.620
This is one of the lawyers arriving. And
you would see, he just rang the door, he
00:17:03.620 --> 00:17:15.760
came in, showed his passport, got briefly
checked. And funnily, in the upper left
00:17:15.760 --> 00:17:20.950
corner, you see one of the guards doing
some upgrades on the cameras. Same time,
00:17:20.950 --> 00:17:26.750
but that's just how it was, there was
ongoing upgrades. So I don't have to show
00:17:26.750 --> 00:17:31.900
you the whole video, but here you get the
idea. He's being searched, his phone he
00:17:31.900 --> 00:17:36.940
needs to give them. The guard also briefly
checks his bag if there's maybe a
00:17:36.940 --> 00:17:41.510
recording device. So this was also to
prevent that visitors would bring any box
00:17:41.510 --> 00:17:50.050
or recording devices into the meeting. So
it was meant to to do also like protect
00:17:50.050 --> 00:17:57.990
Julian on behalf of them. This is like a
meeting documentation. This is myself,
00:17:57.990 --> 00:18:01.480
actually, but this is a little boring and
also I'm not a fan of insinuating myself,
00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:05.590
so I brought you the other one, which is
the only positive slide I have.
00:18:05.590 --> 00:18:09.070
laughter
That's "missing in action" (M.I.A.), she's
00:18:09.070 --> 00:18:13.390
a rapper from - lives in the UK - Is
originally from Sri Lanka, but here you
00:18:13.390 --> 00:18:19.100
have a cat, so that's of course more
lovely than meeting boring data
00:18:19.100 --> 00:18:26.190
journalists, hackers, whatever. The third
party modifications for the access to the
00:18:26.190 --> 00:18:32.810
whole thing started mainly in begin 2017,
after also he switched to encrypted
00:18:32.810 --> 00:18:37.850
communications. Actually, the switching to
encrypted communication might, by the way,
00:18:37.850 --> 00:18:42.910
also have to do with a regime change, so
to say, in the United States. As the Trump
00:18:42.910 --> 00:18:47.550
administration was taking in power and
they were scared that different
00:18:47.550 --> 00:18:52.380
departments would interfere with each
other. So it became a little complicated
00:18:52.380 --> 00:18:58.160
in their own thread modeling / paranoia,
however you want to call it. They started
00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:02.100
to pick up in the mid of the year the
original hard disks from the network video
00:19:02.100 --> 00:19:07.240
recorder every two weeks and bring them
first to their office in Spain. Later,
00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.840
Morales would then fly once a month,
roughly, to the United States. We have his
00:19:11.840 --> 00:19:19.110
flight patterns and all the emails and so
on. And he would, yeah, deliver them, as
00:19:19.110 --> 00:19:25.830
he explained to the staff, to his American
friends and sending new instructions. Then
00:19:25.830 --> 00:19:32.350
in December, they made this new cameras
installation thing with sound and they
00:19:32.350 --> 00:19:39.660
also started to optimize things. For
example, there was issues with the audio
00:19:39.660 --> 00:19:43.320
filters and the cameras, as Julian had
used this white noise generator, which
00:19:43.320 --> 00:19:49.210
will later be a little bit explained, they
needed filter configurations. Also, the
00:19:49.210 --> 00:19:55.460
Americans demanded to have direct access
on the streams coming into the office in
00:19:55.460 --> 00:20:01.331
Spain. So they installed it already in the
embassy in a way that there would be two
00:20:01.331 --> 00:20:07.360
different access layers, one not visible
to the Ecuadorians and one only for the
00:20:07.360 --> 00:20:12.790
Americans. We have... this is the one
email I have there, I don't even speak
00:20:12.790 --> 00:20:18.570
Spanish, but where he clearly speaks about
the access to the video stream, one for
00:20:18.570 --> 00:20:23.930
the Ecuadorians, one for themself and one
for "party X". So the party X is how he
00:20:23.930 --> 00:20:32.590
called in the references the American
intelligence he worked for as well. And
00:20:32.590 --> 00:20:37.250
then they started to do other things that
they, for example, installed a door phone
00:20:37.250 --> 00:20:42.210
at the door, so you couldn't just ring the
bell and the guy would open the door, you
00:20:42.210 --> 00:20:47.720
had to actually speak your name. So, and
also the guard, which was... there was a
00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:54.600
little guard desk in the lobby area of the
building, there would sit a guy. So he would
00:20:54.600 --> 00:20:59.350
hear your name. They would have your voice
sample in the electronic transmission
00:20:59.350 --> 00:21:03.170
between this little door phone and the
counter more or less right behind the
00:21:03.170 --> 00:21:09.490
door. That was something they did. Then
the guards would start to just open the
00:21:09.490 --> 00:21:15.460
door to take your passport. Take it in.
Close the door again. You would wait
00:21:15.460 --> 00:21:20.150
outside and then, in that time, he copied
your whole passport with all pages and
00:21:20.150 --> 00:21:25.780
waited for further instructions, then
leave you in. They would... the guards
00:21:25.780 --> 00:21:32.400
would start to photograph or note all
IMEIs and IMSIs of mobile devices that
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:37.020
they took during your visit. And they
would also sometimes take whole bags of
00:21:37.020 --> 00:21:42.210
visitors and search them and photograph
all items. So I have like three examples
00:21:42.210 --> 00:21:48.050
of this: This is the most harmless maybe.
National security correspondent of The
00:21:48.050 --> 00:21:52.370
Washington Post, Ellen Nakashima's little
collection of devices. It's my own
00:21:52.370 --> 00:21:56.710
collection with some crypto phones and a
camera. And this is Italian journalist
00:21:56.710 --> 00:22:01.660
Stefania Maurizi who, for what reasons,
wherever she travels with all her USB
00:22:01.660 --> 00:22:04.260
stick collections and ...
laughter
00:22:04.260 --> 00:22:09.350
I redacted this a little bit, but you can
clearly see they took the SIM cards out to
00:22:09.350 --> 00:22:16.260
photograph the IMSIs of the cards and so
on. So they wanted all that. Here you get
00:22:16.260 --> 00:22:29.170
an idea of the meeting documentations from
December 17th on with the new cameras,
00:22:29.170 --> 00:22:34.630
which had also audio. You get the idea
that the quality has drastically improved.
00:22:34.630 --> 00:22:40.260
And here I would say if you would zoom in,
you could even read the notes of what they
00:22:40.260 --> 00:22:46.690
were writing. But well, we'll know that
later. However, that was not enough for
00:22:46.690 --> 00:22:52.730
them. They had issues, as I said, with the
white noise generator he installed for
00:22:52.730 --> 00:22:59.060
critical meetings. And they wanted
improved audio quality, as when you didn't
00:22:59.060 --> 00:23:03.800
speak loud enough, these cameras being
mounted under the ceiling were not good
00:23:03.800 --> 00:23:10.620
enough. So they made this survey to
identify all kinds of options for
00:23:10.620 --> 00:23:17.510
additional hidden microphones and also
off-the-network equipment. So here you see
00:23:17.510 --> 00:23:21.960
actually where they ended up later. This
fire extinguisher played then the main
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:29.490
role. He has this PVC button thingy. They
put some of the plastics out and installed
00:23:29.490 --> 00:23:34.970
a bug in there. That was working
beautifully as it was also like from the
00:23:34.970 --> 00:23:39.450
room level next to the heads of the people
speaking in that part of the room. The
00:23:39.450 --> 00:23:42.700
only issue they had is that it was a
battery driven model and they had to
00:23:42.700 --> 00:23:47.840
replace the battery and SD card, which
they did then every twelve hours, 26
00:23:47.840 --> 00:23:53.940
minutes actually. That was the capacity of
that thing. But you get the idea. They
00:23:53.940 --> 00:23:58.070
looked into all of the things here on the
left side, by the way, you see the noise
00:23:58.070 --> 00:24:03.660
generator, but they looked at all the art
objects or the kitsch stuff to see what
00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:08.410
could be suitable before they identified
it. If I distinguish, it's just the best
00:24:08.410 --> 00:24:17.500
thing to do here. Here you would see that
Julian also installed a loudspeaker next
00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:23.720
to the window. So there was not only one
loudspeaker above the table for the white
00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:29.910
noise generator, but also directly at the
window. Here you see very briefly on the
00:24:29.910 --> 00:24:34.820
top the loudspeaker over the table, but
they're also opened during the survey, like
00:24:34.820 --> 00:24:40.220
all the electrical wiring things, the
light switches and so on, to see if there
00:24:40.220 --> 00:24:45.730
would be any suitable places. And they
also did that in the bathroom number two.
00:24:45.730 --> 00:24:51.780
Bathroom number two was originally the
woman's bathroom, which also had a shower.
00:24:51.780 --> 00:24:56.590
It was then later, more or less Julian's
personal bathroom, where he also made the
00:24:56.590 --> 00:25:01.760
most critical meetings with his lawyers
and and associates while running the
00:25:01.760 --> 00:25:09.130
shower, as you would see it in every
better spy movie. However, what they did
00:25:09.130 --> 00:25:14.750
was, behind the rubbish that you would see
here, these boxes above the cabinet and
00:25:14.750 --> 00:25:20.670
slightly behind that cabinet, they had an
electrical wiring for the light. So they
00:25:20.670 --> 00:25:24.410
installed a bug there and that didn't
require any battery change or whatever
00:25:24.410 --> 00:25:30.640
that brought ongoing good audio quality.
They also went through the kitchen objects
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:35.770
and at this point they must have been
infected by the WikiLeaks house humor,
00:25:35.770 --> 00:25:46.320
however they would bark at that kind of
thing. The other aspect that Morales
00:25:46.320 --> 00:25:49.810
discussed with the staff working in the
embassy once when he came back from his
00:25:49.810 --> 00:25:55.860
travels was that he asked them if they
could think about a way where they would
00:25:55.860 --> 00:26:02.110
accidentally leave one of the doors open
so that the Americans could come in and
00:26:02.110 --> 00:26:08.760
kidnap him. He also discussed if they
could put into some poison into the food
00:26:08.760 --> 00:26:14.330
or how that... what options there would be
to poison Julian. However, the sting with
00:26:14.330 --> 00:26:18.540
the leaving the door accidentally opened,
next to the fact that that, of course,
00:26:18.540 --> 00:26:22.940
would be completely legal, like in an
embassy of another country to kidnap
00:26:22.940 --> 00:26:27.370
someone from, but well, this is the
Central Intelligence Agency or someone of
00:26:27.370 --> 00:26:32.980
the United States, what do they care about
laws? So what they did was provide
00:26:32.980 --> 00:26:38.520
documentation of all the doors, all the
locks. They went through the whole thing
00:26:38.520 --> 00:26:43.770
to think about how such a kidnaping take
place. They even made a little video
00:26:43.770 --> 00:26:49.150
showing, like, the way they could move
from this emergency exit or from a window
00:26:49.150 --> 00:26:58.820
and get in. So I have this little video
and you get here the idea of the way it
00:26:58.820 --> 00:27:05.319
could work. And yes, the reflections allow
us to identify the person who did it. So
00:27:05.319 --> 00:27:09.380
this is actually just one of three videos
we have about this. They also did this for
00:27:09.380 --> 00:27:14.890
the rooms in the back and so on, as they
also considered maybe going through in one
00:27:14.890 --> 00:27:23.200
of the windows, which would be more easy
for them to leave open a door. So this is
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:33.860
still part of that plan. I can name all
the doors, windows, identify some kind of
00:27:33.860 --> 00:27:41.940
rain tube or whatever, which they could
use to maybe come from above. Label all
00:27:41.940 --> 00:27:48.450
the windows, to get an idea. So what they
did in 2017 was then these two bugs, the
00:27:48.450 --> 00:27:54.010
hidden microphones and recording devices
in the fire extinguisher and in this...
00:27:54.010 --> 00:27:59.570
behind, above this storage cabinet and the
bathroom. And they did installation of
00:27:59.570 --> 00:28:05.320
high resolution cameras plus the
microphones. They, however, also discussed
00:28:05.320 --> 00:28:11.020
that they wanted one more room. That's the
front room where Julian had... it's the
00:28:11.020 --> 00:28:16.870
former library, where he had a bit of a
room not for visitors, but to work with
00:28:16.870 --> 00:28:24.020
himself and with his staff. That room was
a little bit hard for them to target. They
00:28:24.020 --> 00:28:27.180
would have to be going through the
ambassador's room, which was corresponding
00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:34.170
to it. So they looked into stetographic -
excuse me - steto-whatever, steto-
00:28:34.170 --> 00:28:42.210
microphones to watch through the, no, to
listen through the wall. In order to do
00:28:42.210 --> 00:28:47.010
that, the Americans also asked them to
take like a spoon or a knife and bring
00:28:47.010 --> 00:28:51.910
them some scratch some parts of the wall
so that they could identify the material
00:28:51.910 --> 00:28:56.610
from which the wall was made in order to
identify which drilling machine they would
00:28:56.610 --> 00:29:01.490
have to use. They have extremely slow
drilling machines, which you put in a
00:29:01.490 --> 00:29:06.751
suitcase next to a wall. And it takes
eight hours for three centimeters, but it
00:29:06.751 --> 00:29:12.210
makes no noise. Okay. And that's the way
they would have used this kind of things.
00:29:12.210 --> 00:29:18.430
Here again, it's just the places that
hidden microphones. And here is some, as
00:29:18.430 --> 00:29:23.860
they documented their work, here is some
video documentation or photographic
00:29:23.860 --> 00:29:30.440
documentation of the installation of the
upgrades of the camera with audio. So this
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:37.840
is the upgraded diagram of the camera
installation. You would see all the
00:29:37.840 --> 00:29:44.620
interior cameras are four megapixels now.
And the conference room has two. So in
00:29:44.620 --> 00:29:50.540
both corresponding sides to cover really
the whole room. So I don't switch back and
00:29:50.540 --> 00:29:53.750
forth now between the other slides, but
you would have seen that there would still
00:29:53.750 --> 00:29:58.340
have been small areas of the room which
were not covered. This was like full room
00:29:58.340 --> 00:30:05.930
coverage of wherever he would be allowed
to go to. So this noise generator however
00:30:05.930 --> 00:30:11.470
that Julian installed, made them quite
some headache, it worked pretty well.
00:30:11.470 --> 00:30:18.360
However, other people pointed out to me
also, and it is true, if you sit in a room
00:30:18.360 --> 00:30:22.930
with this white noise generator, you get
headache. It's not nice. I mean, yes, it
00:30:22.930 --> 00:30:30.320
works and it prevents them bugging it, but
it's also pretty tough to do that for one,
00:30:30.320 --> 00:30:37.530
two hours. However, the American friends
had issues with it and they already had
00:30:37.530 --> 00:30:46.800
started to bug the embassy from the
outside with laser reflecting microphones,
00:30:46.800 --> 00:30:52.700
meaning the vibrations on the glass or the
windows would be used. But as his white
00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:56.840
noise generator had a loudspeaker directed
to the window, they needed to deal with
00:30:56.840 --> 00:31:01.260
that. And they instructed to install
special stickers which will be - there
00:31:01.260 --> 00:31:06.030
will be actually in the next days a police
situation, the Ecuadorians have allowed to
00:31:06.030 --> 00:31:09.690
take one of these stickers. They have a
kind of foam on the one side and a
00:31:09.690 --> 00:31:17.640
reflecting blank side that allowed them to
do it anyhow. So you would have this thing
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:22.010
here and here. Unfortunately, I do not
have, at this point, a very good picture
00:31:22.010 --> 00:31:27.550
of this sticker itself. But you would see
here their documentation that they
00:31:27.550 --> 00:31:31.240
installed in every window, not only that
of the conference room, one of these
00:31:31.240 --> 00:31:37.400
stickers that allowed them to deal with a
laser on site. And actually their
00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:41.880
outside camera, the 8 megapixel monster I
mentioned earlier, catched once the
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:47.680
Americans on the other side of the street
when their curtain was a little bit to the
00:31:47.680 --> 00:32:01.760
side here with their laser machine. So you
get the idea, that is not a camera. There
00:32:01.760 --> 00:32:06.250
is, of course, other things that happened
as well. This slide is more actually for
00:32:06.250 --> 00:32:11.970
your entertainment after a rather
depressive technical text. They also did
00:32:11.970 --> 00:32:23.460
sometimes normal things. It was not only
spying on behalf of the Americans. But
00:32:23.460 --> 00:32:30.380
most important and most impressive is
actually what happened on end of 2017. End
00:32:30.380 --> 00:32:36.170
of 2017 the government of Ecuador - the
new government - had already been elected,
00:32:36.170 --> 00:32:41.850
but the new government was not in office.
So as one of the last steps of the old
00:32:41.850 --> 00:32:47.000
government to solve his situation, they
gave him, they gave Julian Ecuadorian
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:52.990
citizenship. They made him a diplomat. And
they had pre-agreed with some countries,
00:32:52.990 --> 00:32:59.950
which he could choose from, to actually
appoint him as a diplomat to one of their
00:32:59.950 --> 00:33:07.150
other embassies where he would not have
that hostile environment surrounding it.
00:33:07.150 --> 00:33:12.620
On the 21st of December he met in the
embassy the head of the Ecuadorian
00:33:12.620 --> 00:33:18.100
intelligence Romy Vallejo. I have one
picture from that meeting. The meeting, of
00:33:18.100 --> 00:33:25.350
course, was completely intercepted. The
Americans were on high alert and actually,
00:33:25.350 --> 00:33:31.890
after he used a white noise generator and
located himself with a guy slightly away
00:33:31.890 --> 00:33:39.210
from the fire extinguisher, by knowing or
not knowing about it, the guards even were
00:33:39.210 --> 00:33:47.309
asked to like stand in front of the door
and listen through the door and stuff. The
00:33:47.309 --> 00:33:51.570
same night, actually, so this was, as you
could see at the time, it's like 3, 4
00:33:51.570 --> 00:33:55.790
o'clock at night, it went on for some
time. The next day, they issued the
00:33:55.790 --> 00:34:01.100
international arrest warrant against
Julian. They inform the British and the
00:34:01.100 --> 00:34:05.930
British informed the Ecuadorians that they
would not accept the appointing of Julian
00:34:05.930 --> 00:34:12.619
as a diplomat. And so the whole plan was
dismissed and massive police came, like
00:34:12.619 --> 00:34:18.520
standing in front of, like, on this little
side street right from it. So this is
00:34:18.520 --> 00:34:22.601
where the term actionable intelligence has
like a direct meaning that you can
00:34:22.601 --> 00:34:30.190
actually talk to your coffee cup and next
moment shit happes, so to illustrate that.
00:34:30.190 --> 00:34:37.040
At the end, I brought you some resource
links. This is, as I said, ongoing cases.
00:34:37.040 --> 00:34:41.000
There will be more material and it will
probably make us a little bit of a case
00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:46.869
study out of it published at bug planet.
If you are interested or willing to
00:34:46.869 --> 00:34:52.740
support his legal and other situations at
Wau Holland Foundation, which I am a board
00:34:52.740 --> 00:34:57.070
member, and that's also what brought me to
all these meetings, we do collect money
00:34:57.070 --> 00:35:04.740
for Julian's defense and also for ongoing
aspects of WikiLeaks publications. Okay.
00:35:04.740 --> 00:35:11.130
That's for me, from my side, for now. We
have a bit of time left for questions and
00:35:11.130 --> 00:35:14.780
answers. If I just knew how much, like 20
minutes or so?
00:35:14.780 --> 00:35:19.110
Herald: We have about 20 minutes. We will
be taking questions and we have three
00:35:19.110 --> 00:35:24.080
microphones in the room. So please line up
behind them and we take questions from the
00:35:24.080 --> 00:35:26.640
Internet as well. The signal angel is
(...).
00:35:30.260 --> 00:35:37.250
Andy: The sticker. Oh, yes, sorry, I
forgot to mention that the stickers on the
00:35:37.250 --> 00:35:46.040
windows were saying, like, this building
is under CCTV, under camera surveillance.
00:35:46.040 --> 00:35:50.190
And Morales had told his people that, oh,
the British law has changed and they would
00:35:50.190 --> 00:35:55.791
require to have the stickers now, which
is, of course, completely ridiculous. Also
00:35:55.791 --> 00:36:01.210
watching the cover frame of their outside
cameras, like there would have to actually
00:36:01.210 --> 00:36:05.010
go all over the place there and tell them,
oh, by the way, your're under
00:36:05.010 --> 00:36:09.204
surveillance. So, yeah, that was indeed
remarkable. Awesome.
00:36:10.593 --> 00:36:15.380
Herald: Thank you. Let's give a round of
applause.
00:36:15.380 --> 00:36:23.672
applause
00:36:24.143 --> 00:36:25.510
Herald: Thank you again for the very
00:36:25.510 --> 00:36:32.800
insightful talk. We are taking questions,
so stand behind the microphones. Please go
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:37.210
ahead. We have questions from the
internet.
00:36:37.210 --> 00:36:41.620
Andy: At this case I would not only be
open to questions, but also to ideas, how
00:36:41.620 --> 00:36:45.270
to get him out of Belmarsh Prison, but
just to have it said.
00:36:45.270 --> 00:36:50.370
Herald: OK, you can have that, you know.
We're gonna take a question from the
00:36:50.370 --> 00:36:52.440
Internet.
Signal Angel: Yeah, just one brief
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:59.160
question from the Internet: What is that
laser with sticker technology. And
00:36:59.160 --> 00:37:02.600
furthermore, what's its purpose? So why
are they needed?
00:37:03.140 --> 00:37:07.369
Andy: Okay. Maybe I wasn't making it clear
enough. The stickers would have a
00:37:07.369 --> 00:37:14.400
reflecting surface to the outside, but the
way they're glued to the window would
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:23.270
somehow detach them from the inside noise.
I don't know how it works at this point in
00:37:23.270 --> 00:37:27.570
that detail. We will have one of these
stickers in the next weeks and we'll be
00:37:27.570 --> 00:37:32.750
able to study it. But it somehow seemed to
help the Americans with their laser
00:37:32.750 --> 00:37:40.660
technology to take the audio from the
vibration of the voice generated or
00:37:40.660 --> 00:37:43.860
transported through the glass out the
window.
00:37:44.910 --> 00:37:50.700
Herald: Thank you. It appears we have no
more questions or everyone's too scared to
00:37:50.700 --> 00:37:54.890
ask one. We are distributing face masks if
that's the case.
00:37:54.890 --> 00:37:59.130
Andy: Maybe I want to...
Herald: There is there someone. Hi. You're
00:37:59.130 --> 00:38:03.990
brave. Go ahead.
Q: Can you hear me? Hello?
00:38:03.990 --> 00:38:07.860
A: Yes
Q: OK. Without revealing your source, how
00:38:07.860 --> 00:38:12.280
did you even get all this information? So
the video surveillance cameras and all
00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:16.930
these details?
A: Well, subject to lawyers advice, my
00:38:16.930 --> 00:38:20.550
answer is that I'm an investigative
journalist and I don't talk about my
00:38:20.550 --> 00:38:27.390
methods and sources, but I leave it up to
your fantasy as I said this material is
00:38:27.390 --> 00:38:32.100
subject to an ongoing lawsuit. So it is
also in the hands of the Spanish
00:38:32.100 --> 00:38:38.980
prosecutor. And maybe just very little
comment because I discuss this also with
00:38:38.980 --> 00:38:45.990
Julian and others. I would have to say it.
Let's say before I went all too deep into
00:38:45.990 --> 00:38:53.150
this and actually looked at this material
for hours and hours and days, I would, of
00:38:53.150 --> 00:38:59.680
course, also have called Julian and myself
paranoid people. But after I did this, I
00:38:59.680 --> 00:39:03.420
would call it, well, we had a good
situational awareness, because that's the
00:39:03.420 --> 00:39:08.590
more precise terminology where we are
into.
00:39:08.590 --> 00:39:18.060
applause
Herald: Next question, same microphone.
00:39:18.060 --> 00:39:23.682
Q: In the beginning, you said there are
multiple embassies inside the building. My
00:39:23.682 --> 00:39:28.810
question is: The hallway, is it actually
part of Great Britain or is it some
00:39:28.810 --> 00:39:34.180
neutral area?
A: Well, no, it's part of Great Britain.
00:39:34.180 --> 00:39:42.640
So the hallway was just shared among the
building tenants, but all of the
00:39:42.640 --> 00:39:47.750
apartments so to say in that building are
private property. So it was like a shared
00:39:47.750 --> 00:39:52.430
thing of the building. There's maybe a
better English term, which I don't know.
00:39:52.430 --> 00:39:58.490
But the diplomatic police, which is the
maybe better educated part of the British
00:39:58.490 --> 00:40:08.110
hit and run job police guys would not be
allowed normally to step in the embassy.
00:40:08.110 --> 00:40:13.544
But in the hallway, they sometimes were in
the hallway right in front of the door. So
00:40:13.544 --> 00:40:18.250
they would also listen to the dialog when
you were talking to the guard about coming
00:40:18.250 --> 00:40:24.500
in or whatever. And of course, there was
in the first months of his stay or even
00:40:24.500 --> 00:40:28.720
years, there was this ongoing police
situation. It was actually the police had
00:40:28.720 --> 00:40:34.468
sometimes, in winter, they must have got a
bit cold and installed a van there, saying
00:40:34.468 --> 00:40:40.200
"police conference", which was probably
suitable for 12 people, had fancy antennas
00:40:40.200 --> 00:40:44.690
and cameras all over it. So they had this
ongoing police conference right in front
00:40:44.690 --> 00:40:47.587
of the building.
laughter
00:40:47.587 --> 00:40:51.010
Herald: Thank you. We're going to take a
question from the Internet next.
00:40:51.010 --> 00:40:57.250
Signal Angel: All right. Have you been
approached by the CIA or the MI5 or met
00:40:57.250 --> 00:41:01.740
the police and been asked to cease and
desist from talking about their operation
00:41:01.740 --> 00:41:05.120
against Julian Assange and the embassy
itself?
00:41:05.120 --> 00:41:10.270
A: Not in a direct way that they talk to
me, but I've been subject to what I would
00:41:10.270 --> 00:41:15.211
call "intimidation surveillance". So there
is covert surveillance, that's when they
00:41:15.211 --> 00:41:20.519
are hiding their stuff and you see maybe a
camera at a border point or whatever.
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:24.869
Intimidation starts for me when I'm, for
example, coming in the early morning hours
00:41:24.869 --> 00:41:31.276
to airport London-Heathrow, come to the
immigration counter, the guy takes my
00:41:31.276 --> 00:41:35.070
passport, sees something on the screen,
starts to ask me actually the same
00:41:35.070 --> 00:41:40.090
question three times, but he doesn't even
listen to my answers. Like, where are you
00:41:40.090 --> 00:41:44.900
going? What's your occupation? He's asking
it again and I'm like, am I talking to a
00:41:44.900 --> 00:41:49.000
moron or what's going wrong here? But at
some point I identified as it happened
00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:53.920
again and again and again that after some
minutes you got this go material, this go
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:58.730
blink on his screen. And so the guys
outside were standing ready to follow me
00:41:58.730 --> 00:42:03.901
the whole fucking day. And that's what I
would call intimidation surveillance. It's
00:42:03.901 --> 00:42:11.300
not meant to like watch me. It's mainly
meant to let you know that you are not
00:42:11.300 --> 00:42:16.090
liked here, that we are have you on our
eyes, that we know you are a friend of
00:42:16.090 --> 00:42:21.180
Julian and so on. So, yeah, that was not
the pleasant part of my life.
00:42:21.180 --> 00:42:28.020
Herald: Thank you. Microphone one.
Q: Yeah. First. Thank you. Nice talk, very
00:42:28.020 --> 00:42:33.590
dystopian. I'm just following up on what
you just said. I mean, chances are high
00:42:33.590 --> 00:42:38.050
that you are under surveillance as well.
What are the personal countermeasures
00:42:38.050 --> 00:42:40.760
you've taken? Did you check your fire
extinguisher?
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:47.780
A: Yeah, actually, I could and should
probably at some point in the next month
00:42:47.780 --> 00:42:55.119
hold a separate talk about that. I found a
physical bug in one of my phones. I have
00:42:55.119 --> 00:43:00.530
all kinds of funny incidents. I was able
to actually create traffic jams in one way
00:43:00.530 --> 00:43:06.230
streets in European cities at three
o'clock in the night and that's quite an
00:43:06.230 --> 00:43:12.940
interesting experience.
laughter applause
00:43:12.940 --> 00:43:18.190
A: And at some point, you maybe get used
to it. You think, well, ok, that's how it
00:43:18.190 --> 00:43:28.570
is. But of course, it is a bit of a loss
of quality of life. And also, you are
00:43:28.570 --> 00:43:34.430
becoming a little bit different in your
behavior towards other people. But as I
00:43:34.430 --> 00:43:39.940
said, unfortunately it's situational
awareness, so you can't be careful enough
00:43:39.940 --> 00:43:46.560
in such a situation. Basically, if you
look at it from a balance of budget or
00:43:46.560 --> 00:43:54.859
balance of measures or options point of
view, they have an endless astronomy
00:43:54.859 --> 00:44:05.920
military budget. We have encrypted e-mail,
OTR and may be crypto phones. So basically
00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:10.780
my assumption has become that they know
what I'm doing and I'm not doing anything
00:44:10.780 --> 00:44:16.270
illegal anyhow. But the whole case against
Julian and after you have studied all this
00:44:16.270 --> 00:44:20.700
material, which includes the pictures of
the bathroom, right, there was an audio
00:44:20.700 --> 00:44:26.050
bug also in the bathroom area and so on
with these cameras. And I think for me,
00:44:26.050 --> 00:44:31.850
it's pretty clear this is not about him
having violated any laws. This has nothing
00:44:31.850 --> 00:44:37.817
to do with law enforcement. This is a
political case. This is intimidation. And
00:44:37.817 --> 00:44:41.900
it is that they want to set that
precedent, that they want to actually hang
00:44:41.900 --> 00:44:45.730
him on the highest tree. And let us all
aware: Don't try to connect the Internet
00:44:45.730 --> 00:44:51.640
with the secrets as we don't like that.
But actually, on the positive side,
00:44:51.640 --> 00:44:58.840
speaking as I said, he has shown with
WikiLeaks that it is possible the Internet
00:44:58.840 --> 00:45:07.290
is quite suitable to deal and to provide
more aspects of information and knowledge
00:45:07.290 --> 00:45:14.782
on government secrets actings to all of
us. So, yes, it comes at a price.
00:45:14.782 --> 00:45:17.700
Herald: Okay. This is getting more
dystopian by the minute.
00:45:17.700 --> 00:45:20.499
Andy: Sorry for that.
Herald: Let's see if we can go even
00:45:20.499 --> 00:45:23.700
scarier. Microphone two.
Andy: I'm sure there will be other talks
00:45:23.700 --> 00:45:28.547
about good news.
Herald: Oh, no. No, there won't.
00:45:30.777 --> 00:45:35.010
Q: Thank you so much for the presentation.
The details like were really important.
00:45:35.010 --> 00:45:39.140
Like to see, you know, have a concrete
image of what surveillance looks like in
00:45:39.140 --> 00:45:44.390
the embassy. And as you mentioned, all
what happened was in complicity with the
00:45:44.390 --> 00:45:49.550
Ecuadorian embassy, even if also you said
that it's not really related to law
00:45:49.550 --> 00:45:55.010
enforcement, I'm really curious from legal
perspective, if there is any way and if
00:45:55.010 --> 00:46:00.920
there are ongoing cases, if there is any
way they could get away with it. Are there
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:06.190
any things that they can do or defend or
argument just to make this okay? I don't
00:46:06.190 --> 00:46:10.180
know, national security reasons, whatever
not considered, you know, is a violation.
00:46:10.180 --> 00:46:16.220
A: OK. So what I can say is that the
Spanish lawyers of Julian are currently
00:46:16.220 --> 00:46:22.800
with high pressure also working together
with the state prosecutor and examine the
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:29.895
evidence. So the owner of the company was
briefly arrested. He's out on bail. His
00:46:29.895 --> 00:46:36.580
company compound was searched. Computers,
USBs, hard disks were seized and so on.
00:46:36.580 --> 00:46:41.390
And that's all stuff that's being worked
on right now, because it might be very
00:46:41.390 --> 00:46:47.570
important for Julian's main extradition
case, as it clearly demonstrates that the
00:46:47.570 --> 00:46:54.710
United States or some entities of the
United States are being located in the
00:46:54.710 --> 00:47:01.780
United States, have violated his ability
to prepare legal defense in a fair way.
00:47:01.780 --> 00:47:08.550
And that might be a main argument.
However, when - and I've been talking a
00:47:08.550 --> 00:47:13.780
lot with this lawyers - like they say
things like in any normal case, this would
00:47:13.780 --> 00:47:19.260
be the end. But this is Julian Assange and
the U.K. government on behalf of the
00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:24.320
American government, so we'll see what
happens. No one expects a fair trial here.
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:29.410
And I mean, also the fact that he's kept
in solitary confinement for 22 hours a day
00:47:29.410 --> 00:47:33.450
in a high security prison that's normally
for terrorists, organized crime and
00:47:33.450 --> 00:47:40.490
murderers, while being none of that, shows
clearly that this is like not a normal
00:47:40.490 --> 00:47:46.050
case here. This has nothing to do with
normal justice. The United Kingdom ignores
00:47:46.050 --> 00:47:52.340
the United Nations finding on torture
about his psychological state, as he has
00:47:52.340 --> 00:47:56.010
been, of course, through a totally
different journey. For him, it was not
00:47:56.010 --> 00:48:01.980
only knowing about this surveillance, it
was also the unknown of: can I ever expect
00:48:01.980 --> 00:48:06.940
a fair trial, will they want to kill me or
will it just be orange based jumps in
00:48:06.940 --> 00:48:15.480
Gitmo or whatever? So he, of course, has
issues through that, but the UK ignores
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:21.260
the United Nations, so in theory we should
all be outraged completely and stand in
00:48:21.260 --> 00:48:28.460
front of these British embassies for the
moment, to do, to demand that his prison
00:48:28.460 --> 00:48:35.240
conditions are being humanized. As totally
independent from the fact, if the court
00:48:35.240 --> 00:48:40.109
will find him guilty or if the extradition
bill plays, the fear is that he is kind of
00:48:40.109 --> 00:48:46.120
being killed right now as we speak.
Herald: Thank you. Microphone two.
00:48:46.120 --> 00:48:51.840
Q: Hi. Do you know if that Spanish company
is still responsible for the security
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:54.690
installation at the Ecuadorian embassy in
London?
00:48:54.690 --> 00:49:01.720
A: No. Maybe I missed that slide. They
have been brought out of their... the
00:49:01.720 --> 00:49:07.570
contract has been canceled in April of
2018 and this other company, Promsecurity,
00:49:07.570 --> 00:49:12.000
took over.
Herald: Thank you. One more question...
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:16.080
A: What I can say is that some of the -
that's maybe an important aspect - as some
00:49:16.080 --> 00:49:22.390
of the employees of UC Global, which have
been working in the embassy and had their
00:49:22.390 --> 00:49:28.740
eight hour shifts there, have become
protected witnesses of the Spanish justice
00:49:28.740 --> 00:49:35.230
to testify against Morales. They were not
happy with what they were doing. They
00:49:35.230 --> 00:49:39.450
understood at some point that this was on
behalf of American intelligence, violating
00:49:39.450 --> 00:49:43.590
the official contract they had been
working under. So there was some
00:49:43.590 --> 00:49:51.330
resistance. There is the option that some
of this resistance also had to do, that
00:49:51.330 --> 00:49:54.580
the owner of the company got a lot of
money every month for this, but did not
00:49:54.580 --> 00:50:01.590
share that money. That might have played
into it. But some of these guys also were
00:50:01.590 --> 00:50:06.260
not happy as they were like sitting in the
same rooms with Julian the whole day and
00:50:06.260 --> 00:50:10.970
talked with him, of course, also.
Herald: Thank you. One more question from
00:50:10.970 --> 00:50:17.060
the Internet. Hi, Internet people.
Signal Angel: How do you explain the huge
00:50:17.060 --> 00:50:22.210
effort besides the intimidation you
mentioned towards you that motivates the
00:50:22.210 --> 00:50:28.600
USA to take these dubious and very
ambitious steps. So maybe just to ask you
00:50:28.600 --> 00:50:33.540
one more question to you, sir: How many
intelligence officers do you think then
00:50:33.540 --> 00:50:35.510
are in this room right now?
00:50:35.909 --> 00:50:38.249
laughter
00:50:38.621 --> 00:50:41.770
A: Okay. So the first question was, I'm
00:50:41.770 --> 00:50:49.650
not sure I fully got it: Why they are
doing this? Well, I mean, I could also
00:50:49.650 --> 00:50:53.430
have introduced me the other way. I could
have said, I don't need to introduce
00:50:53.430 --> 00:51:02.170
myself. Go to the Mueller Report, see page
47. I was suspected due to my multiple
00:51:02.170 --> 00:51:07.060
visits and actually, look, I brought
Julian food, I brought him clothing, I
00:51:07.060 --> 00:51:13.400
brought him computers, USB sticks in like
packages, all kinds of things. I will
00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:18.490
never be able to prove what I not brought
him due to the amounts of my visits there.
00:51:18.490 --> 00:51:23.140
So the Washington Post came at some point
and said that they had multiple
00:51:23.140 --> 00:51:27.760
intelligence sources from somewhere that I
was the person who brought Julian the DNC
00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:32.230
emails on a USB stick and I said like,
wow, what a bullshit. But as I said, I
00:51:32.230 --> 00:51:37.040
will never be able to prove that I wasn't
doing that. My taking off it is as I am in
00:51:37.040 --> 00:51:40.360
a small foundation called Wau Holland
Foundation, one of the five board members,
00:51:40.360 --> 00:51:45.810
and actually I'm kind of working in that
project area for freedom of information
00:51:45.810 --> 00:51:50.570
that I was to contact prison to weekly
send to Julian for many years. So they
00:51:50.570 --> 00:51:54.200
maybe just to follow the money and want to
kill it. I mean, would not be a surprise
00:51:54.200 --> 00:51:58.789
that they want to kill like WikiLeaks else
as a publication agency or not. Julian
00:51:58.789 --> 00:52:03.750
Assange only as a human being. So here you
go. One theory. There's, of course, many
00:52:03.750 --> 00:52:07.510
others, but I guess they're pretty
generous. And the budget they have to deal
00:52:07.510 --> 00:52:11.590
with is pretty big. So, and of course, I'm
not the only one that's being followed and
00:52:11.590 --> 00:52:15.720
so on. The other question was...?
Herald: How many intelligence officers
00:52:15.720 --> 00:52:18.780
that we have here in this room?
drumming on panel
00:52:18.780 --> 00:52:22.550
laughter
00:52:22.550 --> 00:52:28.889
A: Out there on the stream, I see 23
different. In the room, five to eight.
00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:32.412
Herald: I think that guy
walks a bit sketchy.
00:52:32.412 --> 00:52:33.470
laughter
00:52:33.470 --> 00:52:36.470
Herald: He's wearing a headset.
He's been quiet the entire time.
00:52:36.470 --> 00:52:42.190
applause
00:52:42.190 --> 00:52:44.007
A: What can I say? I mean, openness
00:52:44.007 --> 00:52:53.010
protects from from being blackmailed.
Maybe that was Wau's idea about it. But of
00:52:53.010 --> 00:52:57.920
course, not all aspects of WikiLeaks can
be subject to full disclosure as there's
00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:02.270
sources to protect, there's people who
have lives to protect, who help with all
00:53:02.270 --> 00:53:08.109
kinds of things. There's journalists who
sometimes bring more things from funny
00:53:08.109 --> 00:53:12.450
sources, so there's all kinds of things
that as a media project you would want to
00:53:12.450 --> 00:53:16.230
protect normally. Under the circumstances,
however, it's a bit tough.
00:53:16.230 --> 00:53:21.307
Herald: OK. Thank you. There is a person
next to microphone one and I don't
00:53:21.307 --> 00:53:24.000
understand if you actually have a
question, are you there to (...)
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:26.560
A: An answer maybe?
Herald: You have a question?
00:53:26.560 --> 00:53:29.384
Q: Yes
Herald: Are you CIA?
00:53:29.384 --> 00:53:31.807
Q: I hope not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
laughter
00:53:31.807 --> 00:53:34.308
Herald: OK, we're not interested.
Microphone two
00:53:34.308 --> 00:53:37.566
laughter
00:53:37.566 --> 00:53:39.290
A: It's a little too brutal, maybe?
00:53:39.290 --> 00:53:43.950
Q: OK. Thank you. Are there actually any
diplomatic consequences out of this case?
00:53:43.950 --> 00:53:49.490
Because like the CIA, with the help of the
British government, kind of violated the
00:53:49.490 --> 00:53:55.170
embassy of Ecuador, so, like, installing
cameras is not exactly ok for my
00:53:55.170 --> 00:53:58.390
understanding and for embassies?
00:53:59.890 --> 00:54:04.859
A: Well, I would think that in any normal
00:54:04.859 --> 00:54:09.940
European country, there would also be
investigation, like, official
00:54:09.940 --> 00:54:13.420
investigation, maybe even by other
embassies in the building and so on after
00:54:13.420 --> 00:54:18.700
learning these things. The U.K. seems to
have just decided not only to get out of
00:54:18.700 --> 00:54:22.780
European Union, but also to become more of
a colony of the United States, if they
00:54:22.780 --> 00:54:28.770
have not been that all the time. So I
don't have the impression also with the
00:54:28.770 --> 00:54:32.530
fact that the current Ecuadorian
government is very pro US, they have
00:54:32.530 --> 00:54:40.440
allowed military installations from the
United States in Ecuador. They have made
00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:48.230
this agreement to help them in the investigation.
So not that I'm aware of. However, this
00:54:48.230 --> 00:54:53.760
Spanish investigation is probably the
strongest thing going on. There have been
00:54:53.760 --> 00:55:02.500
contradicting statements about involvement
of Secret Service people, CIA people,
00:55:02.500 --> 00:55:10.170
might be a mixture of both of them. But
this is ongoing. And if you ... these
00:55:10.170 --> 00:55:15.359
links here is my own little wiki called
osint.info where I'm collecting the
00:55:15.359 --> 00:55:19.350
regular updates coming in from the
investigation through the Spanish news and
00:55:19.350 --> 00:55:24.339
so on. So you will learn more about the
case in the next weeks. It's all ongoing.
00:55:24.339 --> 00:55:28.200
Herald: Thank you. OK, the guy who's
supposedly not CIA, go!
00:55:28.200 --> 00:55:33.220
Q: So I want to make clear that I never
received any direct payments from the CIA.
00:55:33.220 --> 00:55:35.621
laughter
Q: My question is...
00:55:35.621 --> 00:55:40.224
A: No, but that's... that's, by the way,
the nature of them. So I would be very
00:55:40.224 --> 00:55:41.822
surprised...
more laughter
00:55:41.822 --> 00:55:44.860
applause
A: I would be very surprised that we find
00:55:44.860 --> 00:55:50.420
evidence, because one of the core working
principle of the intelligence is of course
00:55:50.420 --> 00:55:56.250
deniability. So if you have a situation
like this where you see funny money is
00:55:56.250 --> 00:56:01.540
coming in and finding instructions come
in, but you cannot prove who it was,
00:56:01.540 --> 00:56:05.960
that's exactly the confirmation and, so to
say, the "proof", because you can't prove
00:56:05.960 --> 00:56:14.040
it. That deniability is core of their like
way of acting. And I mean, whom, by the
00:56:14.040 --> 00:56:17.990
way, am I telling this. It's not only
them. OK.
00:56:17.990 --> 00:56:21.930
Herald: I always thought you kind of
create an invoice for covert spy
00:56:21.930 --> 00:56:24.261
activity...
A: Yes, they did at some point, but the
00:56:24.261 --> 00:56:28.830
guy was greedy. He traveled then, what we
know is he traveled to Gibraltar and there
00:56:28.830 --> 00:56:33.820
might be hidden bank accounts there. And
also the way the cash was transferred
00:56:33.820 --> 00:56:40.050
changed from time to time. So, there
was... not all of it seems to have been
00:56:40.050 --> 00:56:45.680
going directly through Sheldon Adelson,
but Sheldon Adelson is - actually I missed
00:56:45.680 --> 00:56:51.030
him to put him out on a link - he's a
person also worth checking out, is a very
00:56:51.030 --> 00:56:56.430
weird international intelligence
operative, I would call him . And he can
00:56:56.430 --> 00:57:00.839
sue me for that, but he's 92 years old, so
he's a cover anyhow just for other people
00:57:00.839 --> 00:57:06.490
active. He runs casinos in Las Vegas, in
Macao and other places. He has been
00:57:06.490 --> 00:57:11.869
running spy operations on Chinese
officials in Macao, he has been accused,
00:57:11.869 --> 00:57:17.890
look Wikipedia, on money laundering from
forged USD notes printed in Iran, was not
00:57:17.890 --> 00:57:24.380
Korean paper or the other way around being
brought in by Israeli citizen in a funny
00:57:24.380 --> 00:57:29.360
operation. So he's a truly interesting
person in this context also.
00:57:29.670 --> 00:57:36.161
Herald: So I thought you just send it to
invoices@cia.gov and then get it. OK.
00:57:36.161 --> 00:57:38.220
A: Try it
laughter
00:57:38.220 --> 00:57:42.309
Herald: Yeah.
A: Try it, and put the...
00:57:42.309 --> 00:57:44.710
laughter
00:57:46.250 --> 00:57:48.160
A: No, actually, I would also have a lot
00:57:48.160 --> 00:57:52.080
of funny fantasy about this, if this
wouldn't be about a friend of mine who's
00:57:52.080 --> 00:57:57.109
in serious shit. So, if you could please
also apply your fantasy of how we could
00:57:57.109 --> 00:58:01.700
get out him there, not only into the
question of how we deal with the CIA, I
00:58:01.700 --> 00:58:06.660
would be very thankful to you guys.
Herald: Thank you. Definitely not try any
00:58:06.660 --> 00:58:09.790
of that at home. Question from the
Internet, please.
00:58:09.790 --> 00:58:11.899
laughter
00:58:12.220 --> 00:58:14.180
Signal Angel: The Internet asks, what will
00:58:14.180 --> 00:58:19.480
happen to WikiLeaks as an organization in
case Assange gets a life sentence? And,
00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:22.440
since I'm not sure this is the last
question from the Internet, the Internet
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:27.378
wants to say that it really appreciates
your willingness to do the talk again. So,
00:58:27.378 --> 00:58:37.510
thank you for your courage.
applause
00:58:38.230 --> 00:58:42.980
A: I'm not speaking for WikiLeaks, but I
am in contact with Kristinn Hrafnsson - he
00:58:42.980 --> 00:58:47.200
has this Icelandic name that's hard to
pronounce - who is the current editor in
00:58:47.200 --> 00:58:51.760
chief and I mean, WikiLeaks is publishing
things ongoing. The last publication was
00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:57.800
actually two days ago on the 27th or
something, so they, of course, decided to
00:58:57.800 --> 00:59:03.510
continue the work. Also, because they
think that's the only thing they can do to
00:59:03.510 --> 00:59:11.080
demonstrate also that, like, this is a
publishing organization and they have been
00:59:11.080 --> 00:59:17.200
working with media partners and so on. So
in Iceland, where Kristinn is officially
00:59:17.200 --> 00:59:22.470
located, the surrounding environments,
anyhow, are a lot more supportive, as the
00:59:22.470 --> 00:59:25.900
other day, some years ago, when this
Kaupthing Bank issue and they had a local
00:59:25.900 --> 00:59:30.690
bank corruption issue and that was a
national scandal. It's a small country of
00:59:30.690 --> 00:59:34.390
300,000 people, that's a totally different
environment and Kristinn is pretty
00:59:34.390 --> 00:59:40.109
confident that they leave him in peace
there and appreciate the work. So that's
00:59:40.109 --> 00:59:46.850
not the UK, but for the UK itself, well, I
cannot speak and I can also not speak for
00:59:46.850 --> 00:59:52.770
WikiLeaks. If anyone on the Internet has
good ideas on what to do, as I said, this
00:59:52.770 --> 00:59:59.119
is maybe the phase where we really need to
crowdsource our ideas on how to get Julian
00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:03.937
out of this shit. Thank you.
Herald: Thank you
01:00:03.937 --> 01:00:09.147
applause
01:00:09.147 --> 01:00:14.802
Herald: Do we take a question from the guy
who was definitely not CIA? OK go.
01:00:15.622 --> 01:00:18.160
Q: So we have suspected for a long time
01:00:18.160 --> 01:00:23.170
that there was a secret request for
extradition for Julian and that he was
01:00:23.170 --> 01:00:28.119
under surveillance, but there was no proof
until now. So the general public and most
01:00:28.119 --> 01:00:32.900
journalists dismissed this as conspiracy
theories. Now that it's out, everyone
01:00:32.900 --> 01:00:37.080
agrees, ok, that this was obvious, so...
A: This was a situational awareness, yes.
01:00:37.080 --> 01:00:42.640
Q: Yeah. So how can we help the next
Julian, which we are not sure yet that
01:00:42.640 --> 01:00:49.150
he's definitely under surveillance, to
raise awareness of such a situation?
01:00:49.150 --> 01:00:58.780
A: Well, I mean, in theory, as far as I
know, the publishing activities of
01:00:58.780 --> 01:01:06.380
WikiLeaks are not illegal, have not been
illegal, at least, yes, there is ongoing
01:01:06.380 --> 01:01:11.140
investigations, but these ongoing
investigations are around the question of
01:01:11.140 --> 01:01:17.470
how sources were convinced to be a source.
So there's this allegation that, for
01:01:17.470 --> 01:01:22.580
example, Chelsea Manning was instructed to
do something in order to submit the stuff,
01:01:22.580 --> 01:01:27.940
in order to publish it later. The
publishing itself might have not been
01:01:27.940 --> 01:01:34.050
illegal. Chelsea Manning herself is, as
you might know, also in prison again for
01:01:34.050 --> 01:01:41.240
not testifying against Julian about
exactly this question. So it's not only
01:01:41.240 --> 01:01:48.410
the publishing stuff that's being
threatened here. Yes, also, but also the
01:01:48.410 --> 01:01:53.850
treatment of sources and the whole wording
surrounding the process of acquiring a
01:01:53.850 --> 01:02:01.320
source. It's hard for me to like right now
come up with like the concept of how this
01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:06.620
can continue. But obviously, we are here
at a situation where transparency in
01:02:06.620 --> 01:02:14.510
governmental affairs has successfully been
demonstrated to be achievable over the
01:02:14.510 --> 01:02:19.800
Internet with the right access to
information and data and also being
01:02:19.800 --> 01:02:24.730
challenged by those in power. And so we
better challenge those in power and ensure
01:02:24.730 --> 01:02:31.930
that democracy, based on our ability and
our right to know what is happening in our
01:02:31.930 --> 01:02:40.910
name is preserved. How are we going to do
that with a country like the formerly
01:02:40.910 --> 01:02:47.040
country known as the United States, now
Trumpistan or whatever huff. I mean,
01:02:47.040 --> 01:02:55.339
even for the United Kingdom huff. But ok,
here we are in old Europe or in Germany
01:02:55.339 --> 01:03:00.390
with all its weird history. There's other
countries surrounding us that at least
01:03:00.390 --> 01:03:05.300
have a constitution based on some human
rights. The United Kingdom doesn't even
01:03:05.300 --> 01:03:10.900
have a constitution based on that. So at
least for Germany, France, maybe Italy,
01:03:10.900 --> 01:03:16.640
Spain and so on, and these countries, I
still see that we can do something. So
01:03:16.640 --> 01:03:21.010
this is also a bit of a situation between
European and American understanding of
01:03:21.010 --> 01:03:26.589
governance at all. And we just can't let
this happen. I mean, this is not about
01:03:26.589 --> 01:03:31.900
Julian. This is about our ability to deal
with governments or if you want to hear it
01:03:31.900 --> 01:03:35.953
the other way around with the governments
abilities to deal with us.
01:03:36.223 --> 01:03:37.732
Herald: Thank you.
01:03:37.732 --> 01:03:48.020
applause
01:03:48.165 --> 01:03:56.713
postroll music
01:03:59.109 --> 01:04:09.861
subtitles created by c3subtitles.de
in the year 2020. Join, and help us!