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James: You maybe already answered this,

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but has there been a season

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in which you've struggled

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with being burned out as a pastor?

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And if so, what helped you

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to get out of that season?

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Mack: Well, in the last 18 years

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of pastoring in the same church,

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I don't think I've had burnout.

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What I would call that:

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seasons of discouragement,

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seasons of weariness, tiredness.

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But we have to learn to pace ourselves.

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We have to learn to intentionally rest.

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Renew ourselves.

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Step aside and rest awhile

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as Jesus told His disciples.

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And I think what's helped me to avoid

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sinking into times like that

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is being intentional about times of rest,

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times of going to a lake house

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three days with my wife.

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And literally doing nothing.

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No agenda. No schedule.

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No social media.

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Reading my Bible.

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Taking a nap.

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Being with her.

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Sitting on the back porch
looking at the lake.

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No schedule.

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Just unwind.

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I have a pastor friend of mine

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who after 40 years of ministry one day,

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his body literally shut down.

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He was used to preaching and teaching

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six times a week.

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He ran five miles every day.

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He was athletic.

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And one day his body shut down

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and he had a breakdown.

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And what was determined ultimately

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was the ministry, the teaching, 


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the lack of breaks -

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his body could not continue

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to go on the adrenaline physically.

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The adrenaline needed to preach

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and be before people.

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It was overload.

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His body finally said:

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I can't take anymore. I'm stopping.

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(incomplete thought)

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And he recovered, but he had to stop

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doing 40% of what he had been doing.

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John Piper said we have to pay

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our debts to our body.

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And so we have to know ourselves.

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We have to intentionally plan time off.

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Vacations are a spiritual thing.

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They're spiritual.

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To get away, there's all kinds of effects,

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spiritually, emotionally,

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mentally, physically,

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socially.

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We've got to have that change

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to disconnect and reboot.

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And so that's what I've learned.

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We renew our strength that way.

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And it's actually a spiritual thing

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because it enables us to have longevity

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of fruitful ministry more.

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James: Have there been any other pastors

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who you've known

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who have gotten burned out

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in the pastoral ministry

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and they never got back into it?

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And if so, what was going on there?

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Mack: I have several close friends

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over the years,

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that that very thing happened to them.

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In their cases,

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they were pastoring churches -

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these were very good men,

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sound men, good preachers,

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real pastor's hearts.

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They weren't hirelings.

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And their churches treated them wrong

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or put pressure on them wrong

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or were demanding too much of them.

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And they began to burn out.

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And/or they were forced 
out of their church

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because they weren't producing enough.

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And the power players in the church

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were controlling things

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which is obviously very unbiblical.

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Your church government

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and what kind of leadership you have

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will control that issue.

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Because when you have

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a plurality in ministry

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and a team of elders

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and a team of deacons that serve

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at the pleasure of the elders,

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a couple of couples can't resist a team

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and try to attack them.

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But anyway, I saw these friends

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have to leave pastoring.

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They were wounded, discouraged,

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and then they're at this crossroads.

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Can I take it again?

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I'm too hurt. I can't do it now again.

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But they have children.

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They take a job.

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They settle in to raising a family,

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providing.

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And they get settled where they are.

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And then they get to be 40 years old,

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50 even,

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and they're settled in their career.

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And I'm sure the calling of God

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is still on them.

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But they can't find a way back.

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They don't feel like, for whatever reason,

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they can stop everything,

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start all over again.

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Will the same thing happen to us

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that happened before?

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I couldn't take it again.

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And maybe they don't feel like

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they could plant a church.

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So they never pastor again.

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And it's really sad to me

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because the burnout got them.

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James: And there's not enough good men

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out there as it is.

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Mack: I mean, I would say

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to any brother like that

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who's got a pastor's heart

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and was in ministry,

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and he's not anymore,

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and he's trying to be faithful,

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but the nagging is there,

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and he knows the gifts and callings of God

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are without repentance.

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If I was ever called to preach the Gospel,

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and I haven't disqualified myself

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through sin,

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am I not still called?

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Lord, I'm willing.

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Show me what You want.

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James: What have been your 
greatest encouragements as a pastor?

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Mack: For me, I think,

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as pastors and preachers,

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we're first Christians.

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And we need fellowship.

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And it's easy for preachers

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to be in the preaching mode

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and not maintain real fellowship

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just as Christians.

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And so maintaining real fellowship,

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being with brothers,

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sitting under preaching that feeds me,

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doing the things that I need to do

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as a Christian

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to stay encouraged and grow,

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never mind being a preacher.

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Those are the things that have 
encouraged me the most -

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to be with the brethren,

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and be stirred up.

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And I think even more specifically,

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to pray with brothers.

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There's something about praying

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with another brother in your church

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or a fellow pastor

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or a brother in the 
Lord that likes to pray.

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Praying with them

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always is a real encouragement to me.

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So those things are basic things,

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but the things God uses

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to bring encouragement into our lives

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are the basic things:

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His Word, true fellowship,

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and keeping myself 
under edifying preaching

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that feeds my heart.

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You know, at this point in my life,

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I'm not interested in intellectual,

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high theology preaching

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that just feeds my mind

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or just gives me information.

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I want something that will stir my heart,

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that will stir my love for Christ,

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that preaches to my conscience,

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my affections,

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and really brings me in touch with God.

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And automatically, encouragement comes.

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Along that line of encouragements,

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one of the biggest means

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of encouragement in my life,

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to stir me, to refresh me,

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to encourage me,

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to inspire me,

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really has probably just been

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the regular reading of Christian biography

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and the lives of the saints in the past.

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Because you see how God worked

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in their lives when they were sinful,

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when they were needy;

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how He shaped their lives,

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and equipped them;

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how He kept them and provided for them;

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how He used them.

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And reading the lives 
of saints from the past

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is just a huge inspiration.

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Martyn Lloyd-Jones says

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reading Christian biography

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was the biggest tonic for his soul.

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He'd be refreshed so much.

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And that's been the case with me too.

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Only when you do it and experience it

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does the reality and the fragrance

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of another Christian's walk

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in what they experience

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becomes communicated to you.

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It becomes incarnational.

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And you see, man, his life

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is such an inspiration to me.

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And you go away longing to be that way.

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And you go away with new lessons

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of: I could do that that he did.

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I hadn't thought about that, you know.

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And you're adding to your faith

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and you're growing.

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So it really is true.