WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:14.595 34C3 preroll music 00:00:14.595 --> 00:00:17.870 Herald: Please give a warm welcome here. 00:00:17.870 --> 00:00:23.610 It’s Franziska, Teresa, and Judith. 00:00:23.610 --> 00:00:26.510 Judith, you have the stage, thank you. 00:00:26.510 --> 00:00:28.470 Judith Hartstein: Thank you, thanks! 00:00:28.470 --> 00:00:33.710 applause 00:00:33.710 --> 00:00:57.430 inaudible 00:00:57.430 --> 00:01:00.219 Judith: We believe that scientific performance indicators 00:01:00.219 --> 00:01:03.269 are widely applied to inform funding decisions and to 00:01:03.269 --> 00:01:08.270 determine the availability of career opportunities. So, those of you who are 00:01:08.270 --> 00:01:14.420 working in science or have had a look into the science system might agree to that. 00:01:14.420 --> 00:01:18.840 And we want to understand evaluative bibliometrics as algorithmic science 00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:27.640 evaluation instruments to highlight some things that do occur also with other 00:01:27.640 --> 00:01:38.020 algorithmic instruments of evaluation. And so we’re going to start with a quote from 00:01:38.020 --> 00:01:44.679 a publication in 2015 which reads “As the tyranny of bibliometrics tightens its 00:01:44.679 --> 00:01:49.130 grip, it is having a disastrous effect on the model of science presented to young 00:01:49.130 --> 00:01:58.999 researchers.” We have heard the talk of hanno already, and he’s basically also 00:01:58.999 --> 00:02:06.679 talking about problems in the science system and the reputation by the 00:02:06.679 --> 00:02:14.170 indicators. And the question is, is bibliometrics the bad guy here? If you 00:02:14.170 --> 00:02:18.530 speak of ‘tyranny of bibliometrics’, who is the actor doing this? Or are maybe 00:02:18.530 --> 00:02:24.950 bibliometricians the problem? We want to contextualize our talk into the growing 00:02:24.950 --> 00:02:30.440 movement of Reflexive Metrics. So those who are doing science studies, social 00:02:30.440 --> 00:02:34.940 studies of science, scientometrics and bibliometrics. The movement of Reflexive 00:02:34.940 --> 00:02:41.690 Metrics. So the basic idea is to say: “Okay, we have to accept accountability if 00:02:41.690 --> 00:02:45.540 we do bibliometrics and scientometrics.” We have to understand the effects of 00:02:45.540 --> 00:02:54.220 algorithmic evaluation on science, and we will try not to be the bad guy. And the NOTE Paragraph 00:02:54.220 --> 00:03:03.640 main mediator of the science evaluation which is perceived by the researchers is 00:03:03.640 --> 00:03:09.630 the algorithm. I will hand over the microphone to… or I will not hand over the 00:03:09.630 --> 00:03:14.440 microphone but I will hand over the talk to Teresa. She’s going to talk about 00:03:14.440 --> 00:03:19.690 "Datafication of Scientific Evaluation". 00:03:19.690 --> 00:03:24.180 Teresa Isigkeit: Okay. I hope you can hear me. No? Yes? Okay. 00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:25.890 Judith: mumbling 00:03:25.890 --> 00:03:29.480 When we think about the science system what do we expect? 00:03:29.480 --> 00:03:33.700 What can society expect from a scientific system? 00:03:33.700 --> 00:03:38.200 In general, we would say reliable and truthful knowledge, 00:03:38.200 --> 00:03:41.810 that is scrutinized by the scientific community. 00:03:41.810 --> 00:03:44.320 So where can we find this knowledge? 00:03:44.320 --> 00:03:47.140 Normally in publications. 00:03:47.140 --> 00:03:51.920 So with these publications, can we actually say 00:03:51.920 --> 00:03:58.670 whether science is bad or good? Or is there better science than others? 00:03:58.670 --> 00:04:03.350 In the era of digital publication databases, 00:04:03.350 --> 00:04:07.280 there’s big datasets of publications. 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:12.330 And these are used to evaluate and calculate 00:04:12.330 --> 00:04:16.840 the quality of scientific output. 00:04:16.840 --> 00:04:22.720 So in general, with this metadata we can tell you 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:26.400 who is the author of a publication, 00:04:26.400 --> 00:04:30.020 where is the home institution of this author, 00:04:30.020 --> 00:04:37.960 or which types of citations are in the bibliographic information. 00:04:37.960 --> 00:04:44.890 This is used in the calculation of bibliometric indicators. 00:04:44.890 --> 00:04:51.580 For example if you take the journal impact factors, 00:04:51.580 --> 00:04:57.650 which is a citation based indicator, you can compare different journals. 00:04:57.650 --> 00:05:03.750 And maybe say which journals are performing better than others 00:05:03.750 --> 00:05:09.360 or if the journal factor has increased or decreased over the years. 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:15.330 Another example would be the Hirsch-Index for individual scientists, 00:05:15.330 --> 00:05:22.670 which is also widely used when scientists apply for jobs. So they put 00:05:22.670 --> 00:05:27.710 these numbers in their CVs and supposedly this tells you something about the quality 00:05:27.710 --> 00:05:36.270 of research those scientists are conducting. With the availability of the 00:05:36.270 --> 00:05:45.590 data we can see an increase in its usage. And in a scientific environment in which 00:05:45.590 --> 00:05:52.260 data-driven science is established, scientific conduct decisions regarding 00:05:52.260 --> 00:06:04.419 hiring or funding heavily rely on these indicators. There’s maybe a naive belief 00:06:04.419 --> 00:06:12.020 that these indicators that are data-driven and rely on data that is collected in the 00:06:12.020 --> 00:06:26.610 database is a more objective metric that we can use. So here's a quote by Rieder 00:06:26.610 --> 00:06:32.430 and Simon: “In this brave new world trust no longer resides in the integrity of 00:06:32.430 --> 00:06:38.710 individual truth-tellers or the veracity of prestigious institutions, but is placed 00:06:38.710 --> 00:06:44.480 in highly formalized procedures enacted through disciplined self-restraint. 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:53.150 Numbers cease to be supplements.” So we see a change of an evaluation system that 00:06:53.150 --> 00:07:00.449 is relying on expert knowledge to a system of algorithmic science evaluation. In this 00:07:00.449 --> 00:07:05.699 change there’s a belief in a depersonalization of the system and the 00:07:05.699 --> 00:07:15.090 perception of algorithms as the rule of law. So when looking at the interaction 00:07:15.090 --> 00:07:26.010 between the algorithm and scientists we can tell that this relationship is not as 00:07:26.010 --> 00:07:35.169 easy as it seems. Algorithms are not in fact objective. They carry social meaning 00:07:35.169 --> 00:07:43.020 and human agency. They are used to construct a reality and algorithms don’t 00:07:43.020 --> 00:07:48.290 come naturally. They don’t grow on trees and can be picked by scientists and people 00:07:48.290 --> 00:07:55.120 who evaluate the scientific system, so we have to be reflective and think about 00:07:55.120 --> 00:08:04.910 which social meanings the algorithm holds. So when there is a code that the algorithm 00:08:04.910 --> 00:08:11.169 uses, there is a subjective meaning in this code, and there is agency in this 00:08:11.169 --> 00:08:17.370 code, and you can’t just say, oh, this is a perfect construction of the reality of 00:08:17.370 --> 00:08:22.350 scientific system. So the belief that this tells you more about the quality of 00:08:22.350 --> 00:08:31.820 research is not a good indicator. So when you think about the example of citation 00:08:31.820 --> 00:08:37.049 counts the algorithm reads the bibliographic information of a publication 00:08:37.049 --> 00:08:47.230 from the database. So scientists, they cite papers that relate to their studies. 00:08:47.230 --> 00:08:55.740 But we don’t actually know which of these citations are more meaningful than others, 00:08:55.740 --> 00:09:01.319 so they’re not as easily comparable. But the algorithms give you the belief they 00:09:01.319 --> 00:09:11.230 are, so relevance is not as easily put into an algorithm and there is different 00:09:11.230 --> 00:09:19.199 types of citations. So the scientists perceive this use of the algorithms also 00:09:19.199 --> 00:09:24.790 as a powerful instrument. And so the algorithm has some sway above the 00:09:24.790 --> 00:09:30.019 scientists because they rely so much on those indicators to further their careers, 00:09:30.019 --> 00:09:38.069 to get a promotion, or get funding for their next research projects. So we have a 00:09:38.069 --> 00:09:42.970 reciprocal relationship between the algorithm and the scientists, and this 00:09:42.970 --> 00:09:52.399 creates a new construction of reality. So we can conclude that governance by 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:59.019 algorithms leads to behavioral adaptation in scientists, and one of these examples 00:09:59.019 --> 00:10:08.069 that uses the Science Citation Index will be given from Franziska. 00:10:08.069 --> 00:10:12.610 Franziska Sörgel: Thanks for the handover! Yes, let me start. 00:10:12.610 --> 00:10:16.070 I’m focusing on reputation and authorship as you can see 00:10:16.070 --> 00:10:21.420 on the slide, and first let me start with a quote 00:10:21.420 --> 00:10:27.490 by Eugene Garfield, which says: “Is it reasonable to assume that if I cite a 00:10:27.490 --> 00:10:32.889 paper that I would probably be interested in those papers which subsequently cite it 00:10:32.889 --> 00:10:38.630 as well as my own paper. Indeed, I have observed on several occasions that people 00:10:38.630 --> 00:10:45.399 preferred to cite the articles I had cited rather than cite me! It would seem to me 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:51.321 that this is the basis for the building up of the ‘logical network’ for the Citation 00:10:51.321 --> 00:11:01.709 Index service.” So, actually, this Science Citation Index which is described here was 00:11:01.709 --> 00:11:07.970 mainly developed in order to solve the problems of information retrieval. Eugene 00:11:07.970 --> 00:11:16.259 Garfield, also founder of this Science Citation Index – short: SCI – noted or 00:11:16.259 --> 00:11:22.170 began to note a huge interest in reciprocal publication behavior. He 00:11:22.170 --> 00:11:27.470 recognized the increasing interest as a strategic instrument to exploit 00:11:27.470 --> 00:11:33.410 intellectual property. And indeed, the interest in the SCI – and its data – 00:11:33.410 --> 00:11:39.189 successively became more relevant within the disciplines, and its usage extended. 00:11:39.189 --> 00:11:45.800 Later, [Derek J.] de Solla Price, another social scientist, asked or claimed for a 00:11:45.800 --> 00:11:53.029 better research on the topic, as it currently also meant a crisis in science, NOTE Paragraph 00:11:53.029 --> 00:11:59.329 and stated: “If a paper was cited once, it would get cited again and 00:11:59.329 --> 00:12:05.089 again, so the main problem was that the rich would get richer”, which is also 00:12:05.089 --> 00:12:12.029 known as the “Matthew Effect”. Finally, the SCI and its use turned into a system 00:12:12.029 --> 00:12:17.860 which was and still is used as a reciprocal citation system, and became a 00:12:17.860 --> 00:12:25.119 central and global actor. Once a paper was cited, the probability it was cited again 00:12:25.119 --> 00:12:30.720 was higher, and it would even extend its own influence on a certain topic within 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:38.369 the scientific field. So it was known that you would either read a certain article 00:12:38.369 --> 00:12:48.999 and people would do research on a certain topic or subject. So this phenomenon would NOTE Paragraph 00:12:48.999 --> 00:12:58.569 rise to an instrument of disciplining science and created power structures. 00:12:58.569 --> 00:13:04.530 Let me show you one example which is closely connected to this phenomenon 00:13:04.530 --> 00:13:10.920 I just told you about – and I don’t know if here in this room there are any 00:13:10.920 --> 00:13:18.680 astronomers or physicists? Yeah, there are few, okay. 00:13:18.680 --> 00:13:24.580 That’s great, actually. So in the next slide, here, 00:13:24.580 --> 00:13:32.990 we have a table with a time window from 2010 to 2016, and social 00:13:32.990 --> 00:13:41.069 scientists from Berlin found out that the co-authorship within the field of physics 00:13:41.069 --> 00:13:50.519 extended by 58 on a yearly basis in this time window. So this is actually already 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:55.920 very high, but they also found another very extreme case. They found one paper 00:13:55.920 --> 00:14:07.399 which had roundabout 7,000 words and the mentioned authorship of 5,000. So, in 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:15.389 average, the contribution of each scientist or researcher of this paper who 00:14:15.389 --> 00:14:28.910 was mentioned was 1.1 word. Sounds strange, yeah. And so of course you have 00:14:28.910 --> 00:14:34.519 to see this in a certain context, and maybe we can talk about this later on, 00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:41.380 because it has to do with Atlas particle detector, which requires high maintenance 00:14:41.380 --> 00:14:46.019 and stuff. But still, the number of authorship, and you can see this 00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:52.519 regardless which scientific field we are talking about, generally increased the 00:14:52.519 --> 00:15:05.360 last years. It remains a problem especially for the reputation, obviously. 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:12.399 It remains a problem that there is such high pressure on nowadays researchers. 00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:20.200 Still, of course, we have ethics and research requires standards of 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:25.689 responsibility. And for example there’s one, there’s other ones, but there’s one 00:15:25.689 --> 00:15:30.850 here on the slide: the “Australian Code for the Responsible Conduct of Research” 00:15:30.850 --> 00:15:36.689 which says: “The right to authorship is not tied to position or profession and 00:15:36.689 --> 00:15:41.060 does not depend on whether the contribution was paid for or voluntary. 00:15:41.060 --> 00:15:46.409 It is not enough to have provided materials or routine technical support, 00:15:46.419 --> 00:15:50.969 or to have made the measurements on which the publication is based. 00:15:50.969 --> 00:15:55.129 Substantial intellectual involvement is required.” 00:15:55.129 --> 00:16:03.259 So yeah, this is, could be one rule to work with or to work by, to follow. 00:16:03.259 --> 00:16:08.079 And still we have this problem of reputation which remains, 00:16:08.079 --> 00:16:11.480 and where I hand over to Judith again. 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:19.739 Judith: Thank you. So we’re going to speak about strategic citation now. So if you 00:16:19.739 --> 00:16:29.540 put this point of reputation like that, you may say: So the researcher does find 00:16:29.540 --> 00:16:36.239 something in his research, his or her research, and addresses the publication 00:16:36.239 --> 00:16:40.049 describing it to the community. And the community, the scientific community 00:16:40.049 --> 00:16:46.269 rewards the researcher with reputation. And now the algorithm, which is like 00:16:46.269 --> 00:16:54.730 perceived to be a new thing, is mediating the visibility of the researcher’s results 00:16:54.730 --> 00:17:00.720 to the community, and is also mediating the rewards – the career opportunities or 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:04.919 the funding decisions etc. And what happens now and what is plausible to 00:17:04.919 --> 00:17:10.398 happen is that the researcher addresses his or her research also to the algorithm 00:17:10.398 --> 00:17:21.039 in terms of citing those who are evaluated by the algorithm, who he wants to support, 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:29.230 and also in terms of strategic keywording etc. And that’s the only thing which 00:17:29.230 --> 00:17:33.809 happens new, might be a perspective on that. So the one thing new: the algorithm 00:17:33.809 --> 00:17:40.700 is addressed as a recipient of scientific publications. And it is like far-fetched 00:17:40.700 --> 00:17:46.260 to discriminate between so-called and ‘visible colleges’ and ‘citation cartels’. 00:17:46.260 --> 00:17:50.899 What do I mean by that? So ‘invisible colleges’ is a term to say: “Okay, people 00:17:50.899 --> 00:17:56.490 are citing each other. They do not work together in a co-working space, maybe, but 00:17:56.490 --> 00:18:00.820 they do research on the same topic.” And that’s only plausible that they cite each 00:18:00.820 --> 00:18:06.540 other. And if we look at citation networks and find people citing each other, that 00:18:06.540 --> 00:18:12.860 does not have necessarily to be something bad. And we also have people who are 00:18:12.860 --> 00:18:18.519 concerned that there might be like ‘citation cartels’. So researchers citing 00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:27.270 each other not for purposes like the research topics are closely connected, but 00:18:27.270 --> 00:18:35.720 to support each other in their career prospects. And people do try to 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:40.730 discriminate those invisible colleges from citation cartels ex post from looking at 00:18:40.730 --> 00:18:45.990 metadata networks of publication and find that a problem. And we have a discourse on 00:18:45.990 --> 00:18:58.299 that in the bibliometrics community. I will show you some short quotes how people 00:18:58.299 --> 00:19:04.510 talk about those citation cartels. So e.g. Davis in 2012 said: “George Franck warned 00:19:04.510 --> 00:19:08.960 us on the possibility of citation cartels – groups of editors and journals working 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:13.590 together for mutual benefit.” So we have heard about their journal impact factors, 00:19:13.590 --> 00:19:23.020 so they... it’s believed that editors talk to each other: “Hey you cite my journal, 00:19:23.020 --> 00:19:27.479 I cite your journal, and we both will boost our impact factors.” 00:19:27.479 --> 00:19:32.899 So we have people trying to detect those cartels, 00:19:32.899 --> 00:19:37.299 and Mongeon et al. wrote that: “We have little knowledge 00:19:37.299 --> 00:19:40.639 about the phenomenon itself and about where to draw the line between 00:19:40.639 --> 00:19:46.080 acceptable and unacceptable behavior.” So we are having like moral discussions, 00:19:46.080 --> 00:19:53.560 about research ethics. And also we find discussions about the fairness of the 00:19:53.560 --> 00:19:58.461 impact factors. So Yang et al. wrote: “Disingenuously manipulating impact factor 00:19:58.461 --> 00:20:02.700 is the significant way to harm the fairness of the impact factor.” And that’s 00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:09.780 a very interesting thing I think, because why should an indicator be fair? So the... 00:20:09.780 --> 00:20:15.580 To believe that we have a fair measurement of scientific quality relevance and rigor 00:20:15.580 --> 00:20:21.809 in one single like number, like their journal impact factor, is not a small 00:20:21.809 --> 00:20:29.669 thing to say. And also we have a call for detection and punishment. So Davis also 00:20:29.669 --> 00:20:33.780 wrote: “If disciplinary norms and decorum cannot keep this kind of behavior at bay, 00:20:33.780 --> 00:20:39.700 the threat of being delisted from the JCR may be necessary.” So we find the moral 00:20:39.700 --> 00:20:44.480 concerns on right and wrong. We find the evocation of the fairness of indicators 00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:51.070 and we find the call for detection and punishment. When I first heard about that 00:20:51.070 --> 00:20:56.640 phenomenon of citation cartels which is believed to exist, I had something in mind 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:03.740 which sounded... or it sounded like familiar to me. Because we have a similar 00:21:03.740 --> 00:21:11.130 information retrieval discourse or a discourse about ranking and power in a 00:21:11.130 --> 00:21:19.159 different area of society: in search engine optimization. So I found a quote by 00:21:19.159 --> 00:21:26.830 Page et al., who developed the PageRank algorithm – Google’s ranking algorithm – 00:21:26.830 --> 00:21:32.990 in 1999, which has changed since that a lot. But they wrote also a paper about the 00:21:32.990 --> 00:21:42.500 social implications of the information retrieval by the PageRank as an indicator. 00:21:42.500 --> 00:21:45.909 And wrote that: “These types of personalized PageRanks are virtually 00:21:45.909 --> 00:21:50.150 immune to manipulation by commercial interests. ... For example fast updating 00:21:50.150 --> 00:21:54.350 of documents is a very desirable feature, but it is abused by people who want to 00:21:54.350 --> 00:22:00.529 manipulate the results of the search engine.” And that was important to me to 00:22:00.529 --> 00:22:09.350 read because we also have like a narration of abuse, of manipulation, the perception 00:22:09.350 --> 00:22:14.210 that that might be fair, so we have a fair indicator and people try to betray it. 00:22:14.210 --> 00:22:21.790 And then we had in the early 2000s, I recall having a private website 00:22:21.790 --> 00:22:24.560 with a public guest book and getting link spam from people 00:22:24.560 --> 00:22:26.719 who wanted to boost their Google PageRanks, 00:22:26.719 --> 00:22:32.779 and shortly afterwards Google decided to punish link spam in their 00:22:32.779 --> 00:22:37.860 ranking algorithm. And then I got lots of emails of people saying: “Please delete my 00:22:37.860 --> 00:22:43.890 post from your guestbook because Google’s going to punish me for that.” We may say 00:22:43.890 --> 00:22:51.509 that this search engine optimization discussion is now somehow settled and it’s 00:22:51.509 --> 00:22:57.940 accepted that Google's ranking is useful. They have a secret algorithm, but it works 00:22:57.940 --> 00:23:05.250 and that is why it’s widely used. Although that journal impact factor seems to be 00:23:05.250 --> 00:23:13.159 transparent it’s basically the same thing that it's accepted to be useful and thus 00:23:13.159 --> 00:23:17.410 it's widely used. So the journal impact factor, the SCI and the like. We have 00:23:17.410 --> 00:23:24.570 another analogy so that Google decides which SEO behavior is regarded acceptable 00:23:24.570 --> 00:23:28.480 and punishes those who act against the rules and thus holds an enormous amount of 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:38.669 power, which has lots of implications and led to the spreading of content management 00:23:38.669 --> 00:23:44.910 systems, for example, with search engine optimization plugins etc. We also have 00:23:44.910 --> 00:23:52.809 this power concentration in the hands of Clarivate (formerly ThomsonReuters) who 00:23:52.809 --> 00:23:59.059 host the database for the general impact factor. And they decide on who’s going to 00:23:59.059 --> 00:24:05.140 be indexed in those journal citation records and how is the algorithm, in 00:24:05.140 --> 00:24:12.200 detail, implemented in their databases. So we have this power concentration there 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:21.780 too, and I think if we think about this analogy we might come to interesting 00:24:21.780 --> 00:24:29.770 thoughts but our time is running out so we are going to give a take-home message. 00:24:29.770 --> 00:24:34.720 Tl;dr, we find that the scientific community reacts with codes of conduct to 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:39.929 a problem which is believed to exist. The strategic citation – we have database 00:24:39.929 --> 00:24:44.830 providers which react with sanctions so people are delisted from the journal 00:24:44.830 --> 00:24:50.240 citation records or journals are delisted from the journal citation records to 00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:55.419 punish them for citation stacking. And we have researchers and publishers who adapt 00:24:55.419 --> 00:25:05.159 their publication strategies in reaction to this perceived algorithmic power. But 00:25:05.159 --> 00:25:12.470 if we want to understand this as a problem we don’t have to only react to the 00:25:12.470 --> 00:25:19.179 algorithm but we have to address the power structures. Who holds these instruments in 00:25:19.179 --> 00:25:24.210 in their hands? If we talk about bibliometrics as an instrument and we 00:25:24.210 --> 00:25:27.830 should not only blame the algorithm – so #dontblamethealgorithm. 00:25:27.830 --> 00:25:33.200 Thank you very much! applause 00:25:37.979 --> 00:25:43.630 Herald: Thank you to Franziska, Teresa and Judith, or in the reverse order. 00:25:44.510 --> 00:25:48.450 Thank you for shining a light on how science is actually seen 00:25:48.450 --> 00:25:50.800 in its publications. 00:25:50.800 --> 00:25:52.410 As I started off as well, 00:25:52.410 --> 00:25:55.650 it’s more about scratching each other a little bit. 00:25:55.650 --> 00:25:57.790 I have some questions here from the audience. 00:25:57.790 --> 00:25:59.740 This is Microphone 2, please! 00:25:59.740 --> 00:26:05.319 Mic2: Yes, thank you for this interesting talk. I have a question. You may be 00:26:05.319 --> 00:26:09.549 familiar with the term ‘measurement dysfunction’, that if you provide a worker 00:26:09.549 --> 00:26:14.220 with an incentive to do a good job based on some kind of metric then the worker 00:26:14.220 --> 00:26:19.960 will start optimizing for the metric instead of trying to do a good job, and 00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:26.200 this is kind of inevitable. So, don’t you see that maybe it could be treating the 00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:32.540 symptoms if we just react about code of conduct, tweaking algorithms or addressing 00:26:32.540 --> 00:26:37.200 power structures. But instead we need to remove the incentives that lead to this 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:43.669 measurement dysfunction. Judith: I would refer to this phenomenon 00:26:43.669 --> 00:26:50.740 as “perverse learning” – learning for the grades you get but not for your intrinsic 00:26:50.740 --> 00:27:00.800 motivation to learn something. We observe that in the science system. But if we only 00:27:00.800 --> 00:27:10.440 adapt the algorithm, so take away the incentives, would be like you wouldn’t 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:20.480 want to evaluate research at all which you can probably want to do. But to whom would 00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:32.740 you address this call or this demand, so “please do not have indicators” or… I give 00:27:32.740 --> 00:27:38.690 the question back to you. laughs Herald: Okay, questions from the audience 00:27:38.690 --> 00:27:46.499 out there on the Internet, please. Your mic is not working? Okay, then I go to 00:27:46.499 --> 00:27:52.130 Microphone 1, please Sir. Mic1: Yeah, I want to have a provocative 00:27:52.130 --> 00:27:56.690 thesis. I think the fundamental problem is not how these things are gamed but the 00:27:56.690 --> 00:28:01.200 fundamental problem is that if we think the impact factor is a useful measurement 00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.599 for the quality of science. Because I think it’s just not. 00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:06.950 applause 00:28:09.580 --> 00:28:12.110 Judith: Ahm.. I.. Mic 1: I guess that was obvious... 00:28:12.110 --> 00:28:13.490 Judith: Yeah, I would not say 00:28:13.490 --> 00:28:17.630 that the journal impact factor is a measurement of scientific quality 00:28:17.630 --> 00:28:23.519 because no one has like a definition of scientific quality. 00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:28.450 So what I can observe is only people believe this journal impact factor 00:28:28.450 --> 00:28:36.649 to reflect some quality. Maybe they are chasing a ghost but I… 00:28:36.649 --> 00:28:41.979 whether that’s a valid measure is not so important to me, 00:28:41.979 --> 00:28:45.239 even if it were a relevant or a valid measure, 00:28:45.239 --> 00:28:52.309 it would concern me how it affects science. 00:28:52.989 --> 00:28:56.499 Herald: Okay, question from Microphone 3 there. Please. 00:28:56.499 --> 00:28:59.499 Mic3: Thanks for the interesting talk. I have a question about 00:28:59.499 --> 00:29:04.400 the 5,000 authors paper. Was that same paper published 00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:09.449 five thousand times or was it one paper with ten page title page? 00:29:10.049 --> 00:29:15.259 Franziska: No, it was one paper ... 00:29:15.259 --> 00:29:19.599 ... counting more than 7,000 words. And the authorship, 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:24.460 so authors and co-authors, were more than 5,000. 00:29:24.460 --> 00:29:31.010 Mic3: Isn’t it obvious that this is a fake? 00:29:31.010 --> 00:29:35.070 Franziska: Well that’s what I meant earlier 00:29:35.070 --> 00:29:44.049 when saying, you have to see this within its context. So physicists are working 00:29:44.049 --> 00:29:52.169 with this with Atlas, this detective system. As there were some physicists in 00:29:52.169 --> 00:30:01.780 the audience they probably do know how this works. I do not. But as they claim 00:30:01.780 --> 00:30:08.330 it’s so much work to work with this, and it, as I said, requires so high 00:30:08.330 --> 00:30:19.120 maintenance it’s... They obviously have yeah... 00:30:19.120 --> 00:30:21.719 Mic3: So everybody who contributed was listed? 00:30:21.719 --> 00:30:28.809 Judith: Exactly, that’s it. And if this is ethically correct or not, well, this is 00:30:28.809 --> 00:30:33.820 something which needs to be discussed, right? This is why we have this talk, as 00:30:33.820 --> 00:30:39.910 we want to make this transparent, and contribute it to an open discussion. 00:30:39.910 --> 00:30:44.610 Herald: Okay, I’m sorry guys. I have to cut off here because our emission out 00:30:44.610 --> 00:30:49.229 there in space is coming to an end. I suggest that you guys 00:30:49.229 --> 00:30:52.879 find each other somewhere, maybe in the tea house or... 00:30:52.879 --> 00:30:55.019 Judith: Sure. We are around, we are here. 00:30:55.019 --> 00:30:58.149 Herald: You are around. I would love to have lots of applause for these ladies, 00:30:58.149 --> 00:31:03.030 for it really lights on how these algorithms 00:31:03.030 --> 00:31:05.299 not or are working. Thank you very much! 00:31:05.299 --> 00:31:06.639 Judith: Thank you! 00:31:06.639 --> 00:31:21.629 postroll music 00:31:21.629 --> 00:31:26.741 subtitles created by c3subtitles.de in the year 2018