[Script Info] Title: [Events] Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.46,0:00:06.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CAMERON: Hi, everyone. Welcome to Pivotal\NLabs and the New York City Accessibility Meetup. Dialogue: 0,0:00:06.01,0:00:07.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you for coming tonight. Dialogue: 0,0:00:07.68,0:00:13.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're very excited to have our second meetup, \Nand we're happy to have all of you here. Dialogue: 0,0:00:13.13,0:00:19.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Pivotal Labs -- I just want to give a shoutout\Nfor hosting us tonight. Dialogue: 0,0:00:19.73,0:00:21.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I work at Pivotal Labs. Dialogue: 0,0:00:21.11,0:00:24.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're an agile development consultancy, Dialogue: 0,0:00:24.39,0:00:28.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doing mostly web development\Nand mobile app development. Dialogue: 0,0:00:28.23,0:00:34.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you have any needs in web development, \Nor even web development with accessibility, Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.79,0:00:37.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we do that, so come talk to me. Dialogue: 0,0:00:37.29,0:00:42.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Today I'm excited to introduce to you Mirabai Knight, \N Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.25,0:00:48.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who works on Plover, \Nwhich is an open-source stenography tool. Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.89,0:00:52.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Without further ado, \NI'll let you introduce yourself, Mirabai. Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.64,0:00:56.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MIRABAI: Hello. Dialogue: 0,0:01:04.25,0:01:09.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hi. My name is Mirabai Knight,\Nand I'm a stenographer. Dialogue: 0,0:01:09.42,0:01:12.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I won't keep doing that,\Nbecause we have Stan to caption me, Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.91,0:01:18.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I just want to talk a little bit about Plover, \Nmy open source project, Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.20,0:01:22.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the accessibility implications of it, \N Dialogue: 0,0:01:22.65,0:01:25.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then I'm going to hand it over\Nto Plover's lead developer, Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.26,0:01:27.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hesky Fisher, and he'll talk a little bit about Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.51,0:01:32.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,developing open source projects\Nthat have accessibility implications Dialogue: 0,0:01:32.40,0:01:35.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and managing the community\Nand stuff along those lines. Dialogue: 0,0:01:37.46,0:01:44.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So how many people here\Nhave actually seen a live captioner in action? Dialogue: 0,0:01:44.06,0:01:46.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Not on television, but in the room? Dialogue: 0,0:01:46.88,0:01:47.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's awesome. Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.98,0:01:50.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's definitely what I like to see in a room \Nfull of accessibility people. Dialogue: 0,0:01:50.76,0:01:53.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,\NThat's, like, probably 90% of the room. Dialogue: 0,0:01:53.79,0:01:54.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Glad to hear it. Dialogue: 0,0:01:54.54,0:01:57.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because we're a fairly obscure\Nprofession, even now. Dialogue: 0,0:01:57.55,0:02:01.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Steno machines have been around\Nsince about 1912, Dialogue: 0,0:02:01.93,0:02:10.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we were only hooked up to computers\Nas of the late 1980s, so as a profession, Dialogue: 0,0:02:10.02,0:02:14.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,live captioning is very young, and most people,\Nif they have heard of it, Dialogue: 0,0:02:14.65,0:02:18.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only think of it for television and not for live applications. Dialogue: 0,0:02:18.29,0:02:23.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But myself, I work in universities, primarily, \Nfor Deaf and hard of hearing college students. \N Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.09,0:02:28.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I also work with professionals\Nfor business meetings and conferences. Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.04,0:02:34.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it was around six years ago \Nthat I graduated from steno school. Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.43,0:02:37.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd gotten started as sort of an apprentice captioner, \N Dialogue: 0,0:02:37.32,0:02:41.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I was very frustrated\Nwith my proprietary steno software, Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.29,0:02:47.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which cost $4000, had really obnoxious DRM Dialogue: 0,0:02:47.45,0:02:51.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that required me to jump through\Nall sorts of hoops even to use the software, Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.89,0:02:55.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and really limited my ability to use it\Nthe way I wanted to. Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.09,0:03:00.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it didn't have a number of key features \Nthat I really needed for my captioning work,\N Dialogue: 0,0:03:00.08,0:03:04.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because all commercial stenography software \Nis for court reporters, which... Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.23,0:03:06.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've never done any court reporting. Dialogue: 0,0:03:06.48,0:03:14.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So my brother had sort of infected me with the\Nopen source bug when I was around ten years old. Dialogue: 0,0:03:14.13,0:03:17.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's a big open source evangelist. Dialogue: 0,0:03:17.02,0:03:20.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And my frustration with the software, \N Dialogue: 0,0:03:20.41,0:03:23.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,combined with that sort of thought\Nin the back of my head Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.58,0:03:26.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that getting involved with open source\Nwas a good thing to do,\N Dialogue: 0,0:03:26.35,0:03:30.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,made me think that this might be the way to go. Dialogue: 0,0:03:30.39,0:03:35.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So originally I thought that I would actually \Nhave to learn to program and develop it myself, Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.48,0:03:39.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I didn't think anyone could possibly\Nwant to do it for me. Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.57,0:03:42.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But by a ridiculous stroke of luck, \N Dialogue: 0,0:03:42.39,0:03:48.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I put a posting in the elevator\Nof my coworking space, Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.07,0:03:49.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,asking for a Python tutor, Dialogue: 0,0:03:49.65,0:03:54.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the guy who answered it \Nand started off tutoring me in Python -- Dialogue: 0,0:03:54.62,0:03:57.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it turned out that he had a PhD \Nfrom the MIT Media Lab, Dialogue: 0,0:03:57.92,0:04:01.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and was both a hardware and a software guy,\Nand after a few weeks it was clear Dialogue: 0,0:04:01.91,0:04:05.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I did not have a gift for programming, \Nand starting from scratch it would be forever Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.58,0:04:08.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before I was able to develop \Nthe software that I actually wanted. Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.92,0:04:10.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But he got so excited about it, Dialogue: 0,0:04:10.67,0:04:17.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he decided he was just going to take over\Nthe development from me and do it on his own. Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.49,0:04:20.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I paid him as much as I could, \Nbut he worked at a steep discount. Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.76,0:04:24.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So he developed Plover for about a year. Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.53,0:04:27.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Then he got another job and had to give it up. Dialogue: 0,0:04:27.20,0:04:29.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When Hesky, my savior, Dialogue: 0,0:04:29.23,0:04:35.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,contacted me out of the blue, \Nbecause his girlfriend was in steno school. Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.04,0:04:37.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Actually, the same steno school\Nthat I graduated from. Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.32,0:04:41.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And he wanted to do his part to make steno \Ncheap and accessible. Dialogue: 0,0:04:41.69,0:04:43.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So he's been developing it ever since. Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.88,0:04:47.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's amazing,\Nand he'll tell you all about that story later. Dialogue: 0,0:04:47.50,0:04:49.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But basically... Dialogue: 0,0:04:49.21,0:04:52.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can go over the nuts and bolts\Nof steno if you want, Dialogue: 0,0:04:52.36,0:04:54.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe in the questions,\Nif you're curious about the details, Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.65,0:04:56.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,\Nbut because I don't have that much time, Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.77,0:05:03.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think I want to focus more on the potential\Nof steno in various accessibility areas. Dialogue: 0,0:05:03.40,0:05:08.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So first off, I think,\NIt's pretty obvious: Captioning. Dialogue: 0,0:05:08.39,0:05:13.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This guy right here, Stan Sakai, my captioner, \Nactually started out on Plover. Dialogue: 0,0:05:13.15,0:05:20.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He originally just wanted to use steno to take notes \Nwhen he was in college, Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.03,0:05:22.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but he wound up getting so excited about it, Dialogue: 0,0:05:22.23,0:05:25.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he taught himself, you know, \Nand practiced ten hours a night Dialogue: 0,0:05:25.53,0:05:29.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for about a year, and finally realized\Nthat he had gotten up to Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.18,0:05:31.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about 230 words per minute, Dialogue: 0,0:05:31.15,0:05:34.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is the speed you really\Nneed to be a entry-level captioner, Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.09,0:05:37.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think dropped out of college\Nand launched his career as a captioner. Dialogue: 0,0:05:37.93,0:05:39.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think he's pretty happy about it. Dialogue: 0,0:05:39.99,0:05:41.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He didn't do that with Plover the whole way.\N Dialogue: 0,0:05:41.41,0:05:43.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He actually switched to proprietary software,\N Dialogue: 0,0:05:43.10,0:05:46.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because Plover wasn't in \Nthe proper shape at that point, Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.20,0:05:48.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I still count him as one of our success stories. Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.83,0:05:53.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So captioning for Deaf and hard of hearing\Npeople is incredibly important. Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.70,0:06:03.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's very useful for all sorts of people, Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.76,0:06:07.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but primarily people with hearing loss\Nwho don't know sign language Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.78,0:06:10.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or might not even \Nacknowledge their hearing loss, Dialogue: 0,0:06:10.93,0:06:13.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is the vast majority of people\Nwho have hearing loss\N Dialogue: 0,0:06:13.91,0:06:18.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that interferes with their life moderately\Nto significantly in some situations,\N Dialogue: 0,0:06:18.61,0:06:20.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but not at all in others. Dialogue: 0,0:06:20.52,0:06:24.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These are people -- often they've begun to lose\Ntheir hearing in middle age, Dialogue: 0,0:06:24.81,0:06:30.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that carries through to, you know,\Ninto their 60s and 70s. Dialogue: 0,0:06:30.04,0:06:33.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They don't acknowledge their hearing loss, \Nthey don't necessarily recognize it, Dialogue: 0,0:06:33.27,0:06:36.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they have no idea what they can do to compensate for it. Dialogue: 0,0:06:36.35,0:06:37.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hearing aids can only do so much. Dialogue: 0,0:06:37.56,0:06:40.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Many of them are not candidates\Nfor cochlear implants, \N Dialogue: 0,0:06:40.71,0:06:43.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they often don't know that captioning exists. Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.27,0:06:49.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But along the way,\Nas this accommodation has sort of picked up speed, Dialogue: 0,0:06:49.64,0:06:52.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,more and more captioning is offered \Nas a matter of course, \N Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.77,0:06:56.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not necessarily specifically\Nrequested by Deaf advocates Dialogue: 0,0:06:56.91,0:07:02.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who know their rights and are able to ask for it,\Nbut it's just become an included accommodation, Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.46,0:07:08.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so this sort of invisible pool of people \Nwho don't know that they have rights under Dialogue: 0,0:07:08.18,0:07:11.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Americans with Disabilities Act, \Nwho may be fine one-on-one in a small room, Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.78,0:07:15.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but who are totally at sea in a large auditorium, \Nwhere they can't read anyone's lips -- Dialogue: 0,0:07:15.50,0:07:18.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're finally beginning to realize\Nthat there's an accommodation \N Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.70,0:07:21.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that works for them. Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.10,0:07:24.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Also there are people who use sign interpreters \Nin some situations, \N Dialogue: 0,0:07:24.83,0:07:27.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who prefer captioning in other situations. Dialogue: 0,0:07:27.30,0:07:34.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, they might want to have sign interpretation for conversational, or mobile, or very interactive sessions, Dialogue: 0,0:07:34.60,0:07:37.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but for things like lectures, where there's very\Nspecific terminology Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.42,0:07:42.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that might not have specific analogs in sign,\Ncaptioning might be better. Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.04,0:07:46.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Captioning is also really useful for people\Nwith attention deficit disorder, Dialogue: 0,0:07:46.86,0:07:50.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's useful for some people with dyslexia, \Nwhich might seem counterintuitive, Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.42,0:07:58.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but having the bimodal input of getting something\Nboth from your ears and into your eyes at the same time Dialogue: 0,0:07:58.76,0:08:02.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can often help people to comprehend information\Nand process information more thoroughly, Dialogue: 0,0:08:02.68,0:08:06.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even if they have a reading disability. Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.58,0:08:10.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's also extremely useful for people who are\Nnot necessarily fluent in English, Dialogue: 0,0:08:10.85,0:08:14.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or can read it better than they can understand it aurally, Dialogue: 0,0:08:14.33,0:08:18.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is true of a lot of people who are just learning English.\N Dialogue: 0,0:08:18.20,0:08:23.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So captioning as Universal Design, I think,\Nis really important. Dialogue: 0,0:08:23.02,0:08:26.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I probably don't have to make the case too hard for you guys, Dialogue: 0,0:08:26.79,0:08:30.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I just thought I'd lay out all of the ways\Nthat captioning benefits a lot of people, Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.44,0:08:35.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including that often-neglected pool of people\Nwho don't self-identify as having a disability, Dialogue: 0,0:08:35.08,0:08:38.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and don't know their rights under the ADA, \Nwhich is a very large group of people Dialogue: 0,0:08:38.86,0:08:45.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who have been almost totally neglected \Nby traditional accessibility solutions. Dialogue: 0,0:08:45.04,0:08:52.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that's one option, \None sort of way that stenography is useful in accessibility. Dialogue: 0,0:08:52.47,0:08:58.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Another way is for people with speech disabilities\Nwho want to communicate, Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.17,0:09:01.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who might use augmentative communication devices, Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.61,0:09:07.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but if any of you guys have seen those in action, \Nyou'll know that even the best of them are very slow, Dialogue: 0,0:09:07.22,0:09:11.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, to a certain degree, somewhat stilted. Dialogue: 0,0:09:11.49,0:09:16.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If people are just using qwerty to type,\Nthey can do maybe 100, 120 words a minute. Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.74,0:09:21.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If people are using systems such as Minspeak, Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.00,0:09:25.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they can sort of cluster ideas\Nand get the sentences out somewhat faster, Dialogue: 0,0:09:25.38,0:09:29.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but even so, they're nowhere near\Na conversational level of speech. Dialogue: 0,0:09:29.26,0:09:38.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But with steno,\Nyou can basically write as fast as you can talk. Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.57,0:09:48.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you just hook this into a text-to-speech engine,\Nand you make it portable, Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.90,0:09:55.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is still something I'm working on,\Nyou can make an AAC device that allows people to speak Dialogue: 0,0:09:55.97,0:10:04.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at a conversational speed,\Nwhich is unprecedented and somewhat revolutionary. Dialogue: 0,0:10:04.02,0:10:08.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I think that's a really important thing\Nthat we can look forward to in the future. Dialogue: 0,0:10:08.78,0:10:13.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There aren't yet any really good mobile\Nor portable steno input devices, Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.15,0:10:15.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think there's a lot of potential for that. Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.50,0:10:20.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm also working on an application\Nthat hooks Plover into Glass. Dialogue: 0,0:10:20.47,0:10:24.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I've got a pair of Glass, \Nand I've got someone developing an app for it, Dialogue: 0,0:10:24.87,0:10:28.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I think that having that sort of feedback will also be useful. Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.79,0:10:32.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Certainly make it more mobile and portable. Dialogue: 0,0:10:32.28,0:10:36.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The third area, and I think this one might\Nbe particularly of interest to you guys, Dialogue: 0,0:10:36.29,0:10:42.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is addressing the terrible underemployment of blind\Nand low-vision people, Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.94,0:10:45.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in this country and around the world. Dialogue: 0,0:10:45.66,0:10:51.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are incredibly well-educated,\Nbrilliant, fantastic minds out there Dialogue: 0,0:10:51.19,0:10:53.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are going to waste,\Nbecause no one will employ them, Dialogue: 0,0:10:53.89,0:11:01.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and one thing specifically that makes\Nstenography a really good fit for people with vision loss Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.08,0:11:06.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that text processing speed,\Nor rather speech processing speed, I think,\N Dialogue: 0,0:11:06.21,0:11:08.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the fundamental bottleneck of steno. Dialogue: 0,0:11:08.16,0:11:11.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you look at Stan, \Nor if you look at me when I'm writing, Dialogue: 0,0:11:11.17,0:11:13.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our fingers are not moving particularly quickly. Dialogue: 0,0:11:13.91,0:11:18.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People might think that it's a matter of dexterity, \Nbut it's really all what happens in the brain. Dialogue: 0,0:11:18.72,0:11:23.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To be able to comprehend English speech \Nvery quickly and to encode it into steno, Dialogue: 0,0:11:23.79,0:11:29.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then send the code to your fingers,\Nof those three steps, Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.66,0:11:35.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by far the hardest is comprehending English\Nwithout slowing down and seizing up Dialogue: 0,0:11:35.39,0:11:39.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when people are speaking to you at 240, \N260, 280 words a minute. Dialogue: 0,0:11:39.52,0:11:43.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those speeds are very fast for your typical English speaker. Dialogue: 0,0:11:43.39,0:11:46.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're quite slow for your typical screen reader user. Dialogue: 0,0:11:46.65,0:11:52.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know people who use screen readers\Nwho listen to them at 500, 600 words per minute. Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.60,0:11:57.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So for people who have already done the work\Ntraining their brains to process speech at that level -- Dialogue: 0,0:11:57.12,0:12:04.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't have any scientific evidence for this,\Nbut I think there's a very good chance Dialogue: 0,0:12:04.24,0:12:10.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they've already done a lot of the really hard work,\Nand if they want to try to learn stenography, Dialogue: 0,0:12:10.73,0:12:16.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think they will have a considerable leg\Nup over most people, who, honestly, Dialogue: 0,0:12:16.73,0:12:22.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,find themselves very hard pressed to achieve\Nthe speeds of 230 words per minute Dialogue: 0,0:12:22.42,0:12:27.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are required to be captioners, \Ncourt reporters, and CART providers like me. Dialogue: 0,0:12:27.87,0:12:32.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's an 85% dropout rate in steno schools nationwide,\Nwhich is pretty disgraceful, Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.03,0:12:37.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I think a lot of that is because people do not have\Nthe sufficient speech processing speed going into it, Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.60,0:12:40.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they're not able to develop it while they're in school. Dialogue: 0,0:12:40.23,0:12:46.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So those are my three ideas\Nfor how stenography can impact accessibility. Dialogue: 0,0:12:46.40,0:12:48.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And now, with Plover, which is free, Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.100,0:12:54.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and works with hardware that's $45, \Nas opposed to this little number, which is about $4000, Dialogue: 0,0:12:54.41,0:12:59.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I feel like we might be poised on the edge\Nof a sort of Steno Renaissance.\N Dialogue: 0,0:12:59.72,0:13:01.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm really hoping to get that going. Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.86,0:13:05.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I'm going to turn it over to Hesky,\Nand he'll tell you all about how this goes. Dialogue: 0,0:13:13.76,0:13:14.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HESKY: Static. \N Dialogue: 0,0:13:17.09,0:13:18.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is this working? Dialogue: 0,0:13:18.74,0:13:20.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Excellent. Dialogue: 0,0:13:25.71,0:13:27.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hi, everyone. Dialogue: 0,0:13:27.29,0:13:29.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm Hesky, and I'm the lead developer on Plover right now. Dialogue: 0,0:13:29.90,0:13:35.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As Mirabai said,\Nmy girlfriend enrolled in stenography school, Dialogue: 0,0:13:35.64,0:13:37.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I wanted to learn a little bit about it. Dialogue: 0,0:13:37.05,0:13:40.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's very hard to find information about stenography out there, Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.74,0:13:46.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it turns out that Mirabai's blog is, I think,\Nthe only well-written description of it on the Internet. Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.61,0:13:50.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I found it, and then I saw that she was\Nworking on this project, Dialogue: 0,0:13:50.03,0:13:54.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I just wanted to make it useful for us, \Nso I started adding features that I needed, Dialogue: 0,0:13:54.51,0:13:57.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and basically I just started working on it for fun.\N Dialogue: 0,0:13:57.38,0:14:05.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I never thought of myself as an accessibility programmer, \Ndespite the sort of obvious connection, Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.74,0:14:08.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,until I was asked to speak here. Dialogue: 0,0:14:08.30,0:14:12.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I started to think about what \NI generally think of as accessibility programming, Dialogue: 0,0:14:12.55,0:14:21.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how that relates to what I do, \Nand I saw some parallels beyond Plover's use case. Dialogue: 0,0:14:21.26,0:14:22.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(clearing throat) Dialogue: 0,0:14:22.27,0:14:23.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Excuse me. Dialogue: 0,0:14:23.70,0:14:31.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that accessibility programming, \Nlike coding for Plover, Dialogue: 0,0:14:31.73,0:14:34.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,often involves an intention, Dialogue: 0,0:14:34.71,0:14:40.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without necessarily having the skill first, \Nof doing something incredibly complicated. Dialogue: 0,0:14:40.58,0:14:49.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you want to make some application usable,\Nwrite that app or operating system or whatever, Dialogue: 0,0:14:49.53,0:14:55.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then you suddenly have to become an expert into it, \Nbeyond what a normal developer would have to know, Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.42,0:14:59.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to somehow dig into its guts,\Nand make it give you its text, Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.34,0:15:02.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or change its colors or anything like that. Dialogue: 0,0:15:02.34,0:15:05.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's what it's been like, \Ndeveloping Plover. Dialogue: 0,0:15:05.09,0:15:12.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,From the very beginning, writing normal code\Nto do the logic that Plover needs to do is fairly easy. Dialogue: 0,0:15:12.09,0:15:20.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But then, suddenly, I had to convince the operating system\Nto do things that it desperately did not want to do. Dialogue: 0,0:15:20.30,0:15:26.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As you can see, it involves things\Nlike being on top of other applications, Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.91,0:15:28.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or, you know,\Ncoming up, going down. Dialogue: 0,0:15:28.69,0:15:33.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then, of course, the community wanted\Nit for every operating system out there. Dialogue: 0,0:15:33.82,0:15:39.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that became a journey of suddenly trying\Nto become that type of expert Dialogue: 0,0:15:39.06,0:15:47.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on every operating system that I could get my hands on,\Nand similar things like that. Dialogue: 0,0:15:47.26,0:15:51.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, Josh was the original programmer on Plover\Nthat Mirabai mentioned. Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.11,0:15:57.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He is quite amazing, and he is working on building\Nan open source stenography machine. Dialogue: 0,0:15:57.05,0:16:02.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The machine that Mirabai uses here is $4000,\Nand that's not unusual. Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.39,0:16:06.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And Josh is trying to target a much, much lower pricepoint. Dialogue: 0,0:16:06.46,0:16:08.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know exactly what that's going to be yet. Dialogue: 0,0:16:08.28,0:16:09.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm helping out. Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.71,0:16:12.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MIRABAI: $300. Dialogue: 0,0:16:12.61,0:16:13.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HESKY: $300. Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.84,0:16:14.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's very good.\N Dialogue: 0,0:16:15.04,0:16:19.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that's orders of mag...\NThat's very good. Dialogue: 0,0:16:19.04,0:16:21.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I started from scratch. Dialogue: 0,0:16:22.47,0:16:25.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Again, I had the intention -- I'd like to make\Na machine that's a stenography machine. Dialogue: 0,0:16:25.90,0:16:31.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I don't know any of the required techniques that I need. Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.62,0:16:37.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So once again, you know, one minor example is: Dialogue: 0,0:16:37.20,0:16:39.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Usually the machine speaks via USB. Dialogue: 0,0:16:39.67,0:16:42.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had never done any USB. Dialogue: 0,0:16:42.09,0:16:47.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I had always thought it would be a good idea to learn USB, \Nbut like many people, I had an idea Dialogue: 0,0:16:47.25,0:16:52.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I wanted to learn hardware engineering,\Nbut I never had a project I wanted to do. Dialogue: 0,0:16:52.01,0:16:54.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, the problem is: \NOnce you get to the project to do, Dialogue: 0,0:16:54.98,0:17:04.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then you have an intention now, but you haven't built that skill, \Nand it's kind of a Catch-22. Dialogue: 0,0:17:04.04,0:17:12.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if I can encourage anybody to start with projects earlier \Nand build up the skills that become necessary \N Dialogue: 0,0:17:12.30,0:17:15.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as soon as you know what you actually want to do.\N Dialogue: 0,0:17:15.38,0:17:25.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the other aspect of working on Plover that's \Ninteresting and similar to usability is -- Dialogue: 0,0:17:25.01,0:17:29.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for many people who do accessibility programming -- \NI'm not the user. Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.51,0:17:35.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it's very hard to... Dialogue: 0,0:17:35.72,0:17:41.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not a stenographer, and it's quite difficult\Nto guess what a stenographer actually wants, Dialogue: 0,0:17:42.12,0:17:45.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially when I'm making up a feature. Dialogue: 0,0:17:45.91,0:17:51.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even when I'm asked explicitly\Nfor a feature, I'm interpreting it, you know, Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.08,0:17:52.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,based on my understanding of it. Dialogue: 0,0:17:52.75,0:17:57.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that probably has a lot in common \Nif you're doing something for a user Dialogue: 0,0:17:57.27,0:17:59.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's hearing-disabled or vision-disabled. Dialogue: 0,0:18:00.56,0:18:04.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can only put yourself in their shoes so well. Dialogue: 0,0:18:04.72,0:18:09.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so the most valuable tool that Plover has\Nis its community. Dialogue: 0,0:18:09.27,0:18:13.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To constantly throw things out there and encourage feedback. Dialogue: 0,0:18:13.18,0:18:21.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's no way I could have made any progress without \Nthe Plover community constantly giving feedback.\N Dialogue: 0,0:18:21.66,0:18:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Some of it not so polite. Dialogue: 0,0:18:23.04,0:18:26.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that's still very worthwhile. Dialogue: 0,0:18:26.96,0:18:31.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that has a lot of parallels, here, too. Dialogue: 0,0:18:31.94,0:18:38.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, speaking of the community,\NI did not realize that I would become a babysitter, Dialogue: 0,0:18:38.29,0:18:41.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,taking on this programming role. Dialogue: 0,0:18:41.24,0:18:44.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As soon as I had a official position, \Nwhere I was the main programmer, Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.74,0:18:52.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,suddenly it kind of became my responsibility to make sure\Nthat the community didn't self-destruct, at times. Dialogue: 0,0:18:52.03,0:18:57.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every mailing list that's able to be\Njoined openly will attract... Dialogue: 0,0:18:57.81,0:19:01.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Different types of destructive elements. Dialogue: 0,0:19:01.37,0:19:06.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People who post about their pet peeve\Non something unrelated. Dialogue: 0,0:19:06.13,0:19:15.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But less destructive are people who are passionate \Nabout the project, but want it to go in their direction. Dialogue: 0,0:19:16.15,0:19:18.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's really hard to deal\Nwith that kind of thing. Dialogue: 0,0:19:18.66,0:19:21.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because it goes in two directions.\N Dialogue: 0,0:19:21.16,0:19:28.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to take their feedback, and it's extremely\Nvalid in most cases, but then, very often, Dialogue: 0,0:19:28.60,0:19:32.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it immediately starts to conflict with, say,\Nmy vision of where I think the project should go. Dialogue: 0,0:19:32.39,0:19:37.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But then I have to ask myself fairly: \NIs my vision the right one? Dialogue: 0,0:19:37.41,0:19:38.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right? Dialogue: 0,0:19:38.12,0:19:40.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These are responses from the users. Dialogue: 0,0:19:40.16,0:19:44.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in Plover's case, there's actually \Nan interesting split between the users. Dialogue: 0,0:19:44.35,0:19:48.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are the people that I think of as stenographers. Dialogue: 0,0:19:48.37,0:19:52.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People who are going to stenography school, \Nor tried stenography school and are now learning Dialogue: 0,0:19:52.27,0:19:55.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on their own or out of books, but sort of classic stenography, Dialogue: 0,0:19:55.93,0:20:02.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they agree to be bound by the restrictions and rules \Nthat all stenographers work by. Dialogue: 0,0:20:02.09,0:20:04.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's the blue sky users. Dialogue: 0,0:20:04.62,0:20:07.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People who show up to stenography and say, \N"That's great. Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.18,0:20:10.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, how can we make it a hundred times better?" Dialogue: 0,0:20:10.31,0:20:15.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's add 30 more buttons, \Nand let's map the keyboard to everything." Dialogue: 0,0:20:15.47,0:20:23.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, again, I have to try to \Nbalance this notion with... Dialogue: 0,0:20:23.24,0:20:25.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, that's not what this app is for. Dialogue: 0,0:20:25.38,0:20:31.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But maybe it is, \Nbecause these make up a certain number of users, Dialogue: 0,0:20:31.77,0:20:35.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and maybe I'm the crazy one, right? Dialogue: 0,0:20:35.03,0:20:38.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They've got the million dollar idea,\Nand I'm just saying that's stupid. Dialogue: 0,0:20:38.79,0:20:40.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Let's not do it. Dialogue: 0,0:20:40.23,0:20:43.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so it's a complicated balance. Dialogue: 0,0:20:43.74,0:20:45.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A balancing act. Dialogue: 0,0:20:45.13,0:20:47.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,To try to figure out which is the right way to go. Dialogue: 0,0:20:47.57,0:20:52.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I had a simple answer, this talk would be shorter, Dialogue: 0,0:20:52.22,0:20:57.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I'd say I just have to wait. Dialogue: 0,0:20:57.81,0:20:59.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's not clear that I always make the right decision, Dialogue: 0,0:20:59.74,0:21:05.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but what I try very hard to do\Nis to not make that irreversible, Dialogue: 0,0:21:05.50,0:21:07.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the sense that I just shoot it down. Dialogue: 0,0:21:07.10,0:21:10.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I usually just say, "That sounds great, but I don't have the time. Dialogue: 0,0:21:11.08,0:21:16.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But maybe if you would like to contribute that,\Nthat would be fantastic." Dialogue: 0,0:21:16.72,0:21:20.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's the nice thing about open-source projects,\Nis it does attract people who are passionate Dialogue: 0,0:21:20.12,0:21:23.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and capable of contributing. Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.00,0:21:29.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so we do get contributions, people who write code\Nfor us, and some of our best features come that way. Dialogue: 0,0:21:29.94,0:21:36.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when that started happening,\NI felt like we had truly achieved a vibrant Dialogue: 0,0:21:36.03,0:21:43.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and self-supporting community, and I think \Nthat should be the goal for every open source program. Dialogue: 0,0:21:43.31,0:21:50.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I'm the only programmer, then that's a strong\Nsingle source of failure for our entire project. Dialogue: 0,0:21:50.55,0:21:56.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So those are all the points that I wanted to touch.\N Dialogue: 0,0:21:56.40,0:21:58.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's time for Q&A. Dialogue: 0,0:21:58.08,0:22:00.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can ask me, or Mirabai, or both. Dialogue: 0,0:22:08.67,0:22:11.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CAMERON: If you have any questions,\Nplease raise your hand, and I'll give you the mic. Dialogue: 0,0:22:16.58,0:22:17.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HESKY: Testing.\N Dialogue: 0,0:22:19.47,0:22:21.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AUDIENCE MEMBER: I was wondering... Dialogue: 0,0:22:21.04,0:22:25.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You guys both touched on Plover being\Nfree and also open source, Dialogue: 0,0:22:25.97,0:22:28.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the kind of community around that. Dialogue: 0,0:22:28.17,0:22:31.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you think that the freeness,\Nin terms of monetary cost, Dialogue: 0,0:22:31.81,0:22:35.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was a big decision about why people use Plover?\N Dialogue: 0,0:22:35.92,0:22:37.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, to get people into it? Dialogue: 0,0:22:37.90,0:22:39.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MIRABAI: Huge. Huge. Dialogue: 0,0:22:39.77,0:22:46.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right now, your options -- discounting Plover -- your options\Nfor stenography software are, I guess, threefold.\N Dialogue: 0,0:22:46.64,0:22:50.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's a free app -- free as in beer, not as in speech -- Dialogue: 0,0:22:50.56,0:22:53.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,app on the iPad that's basically useless. Dialogue: 0,0:22:53.78,0:23:00.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It pretends to emulate a steno machine, but without haptic feedback it's almost impossible to actually use it. Dialogue: 0,0:23:00.27,0:23:01.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's that. Dialogue: 0,0:23:01.71,0:23:04.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that actually came around after Plover got started. Dialogue: 0,0:23:04.100,0:23:09.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's student software, which is around $500. Dialogue: 0,0:23:09.12,0:23:14.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You have to have proof of enrollment in a steno school,\Nand it's missing a lot of key features. Dialogue: 0,0:23:14.87,0:23:18.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like, it doesn't allow you to save files. Dialogue: 0,0:23:18.50,0:23:22.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It basically just restricts you so massively\Nthat you can barely do anything with it. Dialogue: 0,0:23:23.06,0:23:29.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then there's the $4000 court reporting software,\Nwhich is fully featured for court reporters, Dialogue: 0,0:23:29.44,0:23:32.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but obviously not accessible to most people. Dialogue: 0,0:23:32.19,0:23:38.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So for hobbyists, amateurs, people who want to use steno to write novels, people who want to use it to code software,\N Dialogue: 0,0:23:38.74,0:23:41.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Plover had to be free. Dialogue: 0,0:23:41.56,0:23:43.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, that was just the only way. Dialogue: 0,0:23:43.17,0:23:47.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's enough of a barrier to entry just in the learning curve of learning how to do stenography Dialogue: 0,0:23:47.99,0:23:52.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that making the software completely free,\Nand making the hardware about $50, Dialogue: 0,0:23:53.14,0:23:55.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is what it is right now,\Nthe cheapest option to interface with Plover, Dialogue: 0,0:23:55.91,0:24:00.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that had to be in place before we could start \Nmaking the big push to get people to learn Plover. Dialogue: 0,0:24:00.79,0:24:02.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Which, by the way, speaking of Learn Plover, Dialogue: 0,0:24:02.38,0:24:05.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the author of our textbook,\NZachary Brown, is back there. Dialogue: 0,0:24:05.81,0:24:11.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He's collaborating with me to write a free online textbook\Nto teach people stenography, Dialogue: 0,0:24:11.27,0:24:15.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which we hope also will someday\Nget turned into an interactive video game, Dialogue: 0,0:24:15.50,0:24:17.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which will hopefully make it even more accessible. Dialogue: 0,0:24:18.73,0:24:20.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HESKY: I just wanted to add a little bit to that. Dialogue: 0,0:24:20.35,0:24:22.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's very clear from our users that money is an object, Dialogue: 0,0:24:25.49,0:24:34.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that expresses itself technically by very difficult questions\Non how to get Plover running on older and older machines, Dialogue: 0,0:24:34.81,0:24:43.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and, in fact, some people on the group have gone so far as defining "accessibility" as "working on their computers", Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.09,0:24:46.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I'm only half-kidding. Dialogue: 0,0:24:46.69,0:24:48.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MIRABAI: No, it's true. Dialogue: 0,0:24:48.00,0:24:53.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HESKY: And it could be almost heartbreaking\Nwhen they tell you that, like... Dialogue: 0,0:24:54.12,0:24:56.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"So I've finally got all\Nthe equipment together!" Dialogue: 0,0:24:56.86,0:25:01.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then I have to tell them that they have to buy some cable,\Nand it just breaks the bank, Dialogue: 0,0:25:01.28,0:25:03.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they have to connect things. Dialogue: 0,0:25:03.29,0:25:07.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's just... Dialogue: 0,0:25:07.62,0:25:10.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a follow-up on that. Dialogue: 0,0:25:10.99,0:25:15.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if somebody wants to get Plover or contribute to Plover,\Nwhat is the website? Dialogue: 0,0:25:15.93,0:25:25.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MIRABAI: The website is ploversteno.org. Dialogue: 0,0:25:25.34,0:25:29.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HESKY: All right, we actually suffer from too many websites. Dialogue: 0,0:25:29.19,0:25:39.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MIRABAI: Well, Sveta, right here, amazing usability expert,\Nuser experience designer, and web designer Dialogue: 0,0:25:39.18,0:25:42.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is actually helping us consolidate\Nour websites into one general hub, Dialogue: 0,0:25:42.78,0:25:45.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that people can just go to just one page\Nand find what they're looking for there, Dialogue: 0,0:25:45.65,0:25:48.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instead of the terrible sort of fractured sprawl\Nwe have right now. Dialogue: 0,0:25:49.28,0:25:51.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you, Sveta! Dialogue: 0,0:25:52.75,0:26:00.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HESKY: Right now there is the blog, the code,\Nthe download page, the wiki, the forum, Dialogue: 0,0:26:00.96,0:26:05.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the mailing list, the textbook. Dialogue: 0,0:26:08.62,0:26:09.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hi. Dialogue: 0,0:26:09.70,0:26:13.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You mentioned the 85% dropout rate from steno school. Dialogue: 0,0:26:13.31,0:26:20.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is there any conversation either in Plover\Nor within the larger community about how to work on that? Dialogue: 0,0:26:22.62,0:26:25.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MIRABAI: I could speak about this for hours. Dialogue: 0,0:26:25.09,0:26:28.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think there are a lot of economic components.\N Dialogue: 0,0:26:28.72,0:26:30.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(mic booming)\N Dialogue: 0,0:26:30.35,0:26:40.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sorry. I think, to a large degree, that dropout rate is because: \NA) steno's very difficult to do at a high level. Dialogue: 0,0:26:40.15,0:26:42.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Meaning professional speeds. Dialogue: 0,0:26:42.12,0:26:46.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it's much less difficult to do at sort of \Ngeneral conversational speed, Dialogue: 0,0:26:46.27,0:26:48.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or for text composition and text entry. Dialogue: 0,0:26:48.56,0:26:52.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that's a pretty reasonable goalpost for most people. Dialogue: 0,0:26:52.91,0:26:54.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But actual professional steno speeds, Dialogue: 0,0:26:54.89,0:26:59.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,230 to 240 words per minute, \Nvery difficult for many people. Dialogue: 0,0:26:59.80,0:27:05.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The other thing to consider is that a lot of people\Nare going into steno school who don't necessarily\N Dialogue: 0,0:27:05.75,0:27:09.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have the baseline language skills in English. Dialogue: 0,0:27:09.04,0:27:15.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's seen as sort of a clerical field,\Nand a good middle class career. Dialogue: 0,0:27:15.46,0:27:21.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But most of the schools are for-profit,\Nand there aren't really any admission requirements. Dialogue: 0,0:27:21.52,0:27:25.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they'll basically recruit on the subways;\Nthey'll tell everyone to just come in. Dialogue: 0,0:27:25.06,0:27:31.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They'll sell them the $1,000 student steno machine,\Nlet them go through a theory class, Dialogue: 0,0:27:31.83,0:27:36.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after a certain point, these students don't\Nget to their goal speeds, Dialogue: 0,0:27:36.10,0:27:39.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their financial aid runs out, they're not passing tests,\Nthey drop out, Dialogue: 0,0:27:39.90,0:27:44.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they sell their machine back to the school,\Nthe school sells it back again to another set of students. Dialogue: 0,0:27:44.68,0:27:50.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there isn't really any incentive for these\Nfor-profit schools to improve the graduation rates. Dialogue: 0,0:27:50.56,0:27:54.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, honestly, I mean, even the ones that acting \Nin good faith and trying to graduate Dialogue: 0,0:27:54.16,0:27:55.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as many students of possible -- Dialogue: 0,0:27:55.72,0:28:03.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the pool of people entering steno school is not necessarily the people who have the baseline skills necessary to succeed. Dialogue: 0,0:28:03.30,0:28:07.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So my solution is just to make steno not\Nsomething you have to go to school for, Dialogue: 0,0:28:07.84,0:28:10.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that you don't have to buy a $1,000 machine for\Nand pay tuition for. Dialogue: 0,0:28:10.78,0:28:14.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Make steno something that, \Nif you want to give it a try and see if you have a knack for it, Dialogue: 0,0:28:14.74,0:28:17.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and play around with it, you know, play a video game\Na couple hours a night, Dialogue: 0,0:28:17.88,0:28:23.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and see if your speed takes off, because you're just\None of those inherently inborn natural stenographers, Dialogue: 0,0:28:23.92,0:28:25.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like Stan -- Dialogue: 0,0:28:25.26,0:28:30.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's something you can do without risking\Na ton of time and money and effort and risk. Dialogue: 0,0:28:31.49,0:28:34.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HESKY: Just quickly wanted to add that, Dialogue: 0,0:28:34.06,0:28:37.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of the structure of how you learn steno,\Nyou enroll in school, Dialogue: 0,0:28:37.21,0:28:42.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have the large initial outlay for the equipment,\Nsoftware, and tuition, and then, Dialogue: 0,0:28:42.30,0:28:45.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when you realize that you're not going to make it in the profession, there's a huge frustration, Dialogue: 0,0:28:45.43,0:28:48.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and usually a complete dumping of the thing. Dialogue: 0,0:28:48.20,0:28:52.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You sell your old machine back, your old textbooks,\Nand you move on. Dialogue: 0,0:28:52.80,0:28:56.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's unfortunate, because of that structure,\Ndropping out is considered a failure. Dialogue: 0,0:28:56.80,0:29:01.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because the person who drops out\Ncould have reached 130, 180, or something like that, Dialogue: 0,0:29:01.47,0:29:03.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's a useful skill in and of itself, Dialogue: 0,0:29:03.23,0:29:06.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that's not what they signed up for in terms of schooling. Dialogue: 0,0:29:06.46,0:29:13.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're hoping that, with people having open source\Nand free methods, that that's not a failure. Dialogue: 0,0:29:13.07,0:29:17.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's just reaching a very, very good typing speed. Dialogue: 0,0:29:19.06,0:29:19.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's one. Dialogue: 0,0:29:19.92,0:29:21.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He already has the mic. Dialogue: 0,0:29:21.57,0:29:23.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Somebody already has the microphone.\N Dialogue: 0,0:29:28.43,0:29:31.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm hearing in this talk sort of -- Dialogue: 0,0:29:32.00,0:29:34.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it sounds like there's two separate communities.\N Dialogue: 0,0:29:34.50,0:29:38.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's the steno schools and closed source software\Nand closed source hardware, Dialogue: 0,0:29:38.41,0:29:44.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all of the stuff that goes around that point of view, \NI guess, and then there's Plover Dialogue: 0,0:29:44.93,0:29:47.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the community that's built around that. Dialogue: 0,0:29:47.07,0:29:48.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm wondering... Dialogue: 0,0:29:48.80,0:29:51.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What are their relative sizes? Dialogue: 0,0:29:51.97,0:29:53.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Are they really separate communities? Dialogue: 0,0:29:53.40,0:29:56.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And is Plover changing what is steno? Dialogue: 0,0:29:56.56,0:29:59.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Or is steno still what it always has been? Dialogue: 0,0:29:59.76,0:30:03.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what's the social relationship between the two communities? Dialogue: 0,0:30:03.65,0:30:04.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Are they getting along?\N Dialogue: 0,0:30:04.52,0:30:07.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Is there animosity? Dialogue: 0,0:30:07.19,0:30:07.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HESKY: Can I take this one? Dialogue: 0,0:30:07.68,0:30:08.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MIRABAI: Yeah, go for it. Dialogue: 0,0:30:08.75,0:30:11.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HESKY: Mirabai will probably\Nhave more to add to this, Dialogue: 0,0:30:11.46,0:30:19.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we've done at least one demo session at the local school,\Nfor students to see, and Plover's still adding features Dialogue: 0,0:30:19.98,0:30:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that some of the other software comes with. Dialogue: 0,0:30:23.04,0:30:27.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know how it's going to go in the future,\Nbut the relationship between Plover Dialogue: 0,0:30:27.58,0:30:34.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the software companies and hardware companies\Nis between being ignored and being hostile. Dialogue: 0,0:30:38.86,0:30:41.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AUDIENCE MEMBER: But there have been\Nsome hardware donations, right? Dialogue: 0,0:30:41.74,0:30:42.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,HESKY: That's true.\N Dialogue: 0,0:30:42.71,0:30:45.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what has happened is that, like every world, Dialogue: 0,0:30:45.24,0:30:50.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there are underdogs, and the underdogs\Nhave been far friendlier than the entrenched players. Dialogue: 0,0:30:50.02,0:30:54.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Right, I should have acknowledged that some\Nof the companies have been friendly. Dialogue: 0,0:30:54.00,0:30:59.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But, you know, the hardware, for example, Dialogue: 0,0:30:59.35,0:31:04.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,comes with protocols that have to be decoded\Nin order to work with them, Dialogue: 0,0:31:04.26,0:31:11.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and several companies have been very aggressive\Nabout not letting us get to the protocol. Dialogue: 0,0:31:11.98,0:31:16.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's a very small world. Dialogue: 0,0:31:16.01,0:31:21.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think at this point I've spoken\Nto all the CEOs randomly, by email. Dialogue: 0,0:31:21.39,0:31:29.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I've heard that one person who volunteered \Nto work on one aspect of Plover Dialogue: 0,0:31:29.17,0:31:33.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually had a salesperson, like, target him. Dialogue: 0,0:31:33.59,0:31:35.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was a very bizarre story. Dialogue: 0,0:31:35.91,0:31:40.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But (inaudible)... Dialogue: 0,0:31:40.36,0:31:43.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MIRABAI: I can speak just in terms of numbers.\N Dialogue: 0,0:31:43.30,0:31:49.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think there are around 30,000 active \Nprofessional stenographers in the country. Dialogue: 0,0:31:49.39,0:31:54.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,\NThere's around 250 users on the Plover mailing list, which -- Dialogue: 0,0:31:54.16,0:31:57.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're our most active and most engaged users. Dialogue: 0,0:31:57.02,0:31:58.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't know exactly how many downloads there are. Dialogue: 0,0:31:58.100,0:32:07.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So right now, the proportion of Plover users\Nto professional stenographers is very, very skewed. Dialogue: 0,0:32:07.20,0:32:10.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think and hope that\Nthat will change pretty drastically, Dialogue: 0,0:32:10.99,0:32:15.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and honestly, from companies, \Nsoftware and hardware vendors, Dialogue: 0,0:32:15.85,0:32:20.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a certain wariness directed towards us,\Nbut from professional stenographers, Dialogue: 0,0:32:20.39,0:32:26.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by and large, there's been a lot of encouragement, \Nbecause a lot of people are worried that this technology Dialogue: 0,0:32:26.36,0:32:29.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is vanishing, that the profession is dying.\N Dialogue: 0,0:32:29.93,0:32:35.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You know, the average age of a professional stenographer,\NI heard somewhere, was something like 55 years old, Dialogue: 0,0:32:35.30,0:32:39.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and as more and more people reach retirement age, Dialogue: 0,0:32:39.40,0:32:44.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and fewer and fewer younger people are graduating,\Nit really leaves the profession vulnerable Dialogue: 0,0:32:45.01,0:32:53.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to being co-opted by less accurate, less useful, non-verbatim\Ntechnologies to just fill the vacuum that's left behind Dialogue: 0,0:32:53.32,0:32:56.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if there aren't any stenographers\Nto keep the place open. Dialogue: 0,0:32:56.73,0:33:02.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So most professional stenographers that I've talked to are very excited about Plover and are very encouraging. Dialogue: 0,0:33:02.84,0:33:05.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we'll see what happens.\N Dialogue: 0,0:33:05.67,0:33:17.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CAMERON: We're going to have one more question,\Nand then we'll take a quick break. Dialogue: 0,0:33:17.84,0:33:19.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a comment as a Deaf person. Dialogue: 0,0:33:19.09,0:33:22.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that it's great for... Dialogue: 0,0:33:22.70,0:33:31.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that Plover is great for people who are trying\Nto help people become stenographers Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.07,0:33:33.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and encourage that profession, but as a deaf person, myself, Dialogue: 0,0:33:33.90,0:33:38.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that it's frustrating sometimes\Nto find a good quality captionist. Dialogue: 0,0:33:38.24,0:33:42.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, just to let you know, captioning is not the same\Nas what they do in court. Dialogue: 0,0:33:42.98,0:33:45.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Court reporting. Dialogue: 0,0:33:45.43,0:33:51.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Court reporting is entirely different than captioning. Dialogue: 0,0:33:51.72,0:33:56.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, in my experience, court reporters -- Dialogue: 0,0:33:56.58,0:34:00.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using both court reporters and captionists -- Dialogue: 0,0:34:00.31,0:34:05.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're completely different. Dialogue: 0,0:34:05.65,0:34:07.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The training, I think, needs to be different.\N Dialogue: 0,0:34:07.90,0:34:13.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Those people who do captioning should be trained a different way for Deaf and hard of hearing people. Dialogue: 0,0:34:13.61,0:34:24.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I also know that Plover, when you use it,\Nyou still have to have some training,\N Dialogue: 0,0:34:24.43,0:34:25.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have some professional training. Dialogue: 0,0:34:25.83,0:34:30.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You shouldn't just have a person who, you know,\Nplays around with the program Dialogue: 0,0:34:30.49,0:34:32.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then becomes a professional captionist.\N Dialogue: 0,0:34:32.85,0:34:35.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's the same thing with interpreters. Dialogue: 0,0:34:35.57,0:34:39.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just because someone knows sign language doesn't\Nmean that they would be a good-quality interpreter. Dialogue: 0,0:34:39.20,0:34:44.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I think it's important to note that to have\Na good quality captionist that can work Dialogue: 0,0:34:44.18,0:34:47.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with Deaf and hard of hearing people,\Nthey need to be professionally trained. Dialogue: 0,0:34:48.32,0:34:50.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,MIRABAI: Can I just briefly respond,\Nreally quickly? Dialogue: 0,0:34:50.92,0:34:53.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, absolutely agree. Dialogue: 0,0:34:53.92,0:34:57.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Of those 30,000 professional stenographers, Dialogue: 0,0:34:57.52,0:35:01.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,only about 300 in the country are certified captioners, Dialogue: 0,0:35:01.33,0:35:05.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I think is just staggering,\Nand it's very true that the skills are extremely different. Dialogue: 0,0:35:05.62,0:35:11.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So Plover is actually the only software\Nthat's specifically designed for live captioning. Dialogue: 0,0:35:11.40,0:35:13.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't work with broadcast captioning. Dialogue: 0,0:35:13.01,0:35:14.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't work with court reporting. Dialogue: 0,0:35:14.60,0:35:16.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Unlike every other proprietary software out there, Dialogue: 0,0:35:16.55,0:35:18.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is specifically directed for court reporters. Dialogue: 0,0:35:18.52,0:35:21.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, as a live captioner myself, Dialogue: 0,0:35:21.23,0:35:28.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I definitely want to sort of shepherd the potential captioning prodigies from trying steno out as an amateur, Dialogue: 0,0:35:28.52,0:35:30.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and learning through Plover,\Nto get up there, Dialogue: 0,0:35:30.78,0:35:35.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then sort of giving them that final push\Nof captioning training, including ethics, Dialogue: 0,0:35:35.22,0:35:37.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including, you know, Deaf Culture, Dialogue: 0,0:35:37.15,0:35:41.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including all the sorts of things\Nthat professional captioners need to know, Dialogue: 0,0:35:41.09,0:35:43.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you can't get just as an an amateur,\Nplaying around with the software.\N Dialogue: 0,0:35:43.99,0:35:48.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I feel very passionately about that,\Nand I feel like it's really vital to preserving my own career, Dialogue: 0,0:35:48.64,0:35:52.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to help bring up the next generation of captioners via Plover. Dialogue: 0,0:35:54.30,0:35:55.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CAMERON: Great. Dialogue: 0,0:35:55.88,0:35:58.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you so much, Hesky and Mirabai. Dialogue: 0,0:35:58.86,0:36:00.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Please, a round of applause. Dialogue: 0,0:36:00.17,0:36:02.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[ Applause ] Dialogue: 0,0:36:08.14,0:36:12.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,CAMERON: Coming up, we're going to have\NJohn Schimmel and DIYAbility crew Dialogue: 0,0:36:12.58,0:36:19.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about doing your own DIY hardware accessibility. Dialogue: 0,0:36:19.30,0:36:21.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So let's take five minutes. Dialogue: 0,0:36:21.50,0:36:24.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Introduce yourselves, please, \Nchat amongst yourselves, Dialogue: 0,0:36:24.92,0:36:29.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then we'll come back at 8:00\Nand pick up with John Schimmel. Dialogue: 0,0:36:29.73,0:36:30.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thanks!