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36C3 Preroll music
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Herald: Two speakers, that are on stage[br]today are both anthropologists and they
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are both experts on hacking culture. Today[br]also, they launched a website HackCur.io.
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And which is also the name of the talk[br]'hack_curio, decoding the Cultures of
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Hacking'. One video at a time. I welcome[br]Gabriella, a.k.a. Biella Coleman and
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Paula Bialski.
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Applause
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Paula Belsky : Hello. Hello. Yes, good[br]evening. CCC is so lovely to be here. We
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are super excited to stand before you here[br]today and present a project we've been
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working on for the past year or so.
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Biella: Would not have been[br]finished if it were not for
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this talk. Paula: Exactly. Biella: So thank you.
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Paula: Exactly.[br]Thanks for forcing us to stand before you
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and get away from our desks. Here's a[br]drink, some wine, have some 11:30 PM
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discussion with you and there's no[br]better place to launch the project that
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we're gonna show you then at the CCC. So[br]we're super excited to be here. Let's
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start with the very basics. What is[br]hack_curio? What is it that you guys are
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gonna see in the next hour or so?[br]Hack_curio is a web shot site featuring
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short video clips all related to computer[br]hackers. Now a bit a bit of background. My
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name is Paula Bialski and I am a[br]sociologist. I'm an ethnographer of hacker
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cultures. I study corporate hacker[br]developers. And for those of you who don't
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know Biella Coleman.[br]Biella: I'm an anthropologist.
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I also study computer hackers. And we,[br]along with Chris Kelty, have helped to put
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this Website together. [br]Paula: Exactly. And in
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the past year, we've decided to come[br]together and bring all sorts of clips from
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public talks, from documentaries, from[br]Hollywood films, mems, advertising, all
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sorts of sources. We've brought together[br]these videos that also come together
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short descriptions by authors, by[br]scholars, by journalists, by people who
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know something about hacker cultures. And[br]we brought that together all in one place.
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So call it a museum, call it a compendium,[br]call it a web site. And it's a place for
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you to really pay homage to you guys,[br]because hackers come in all shapes and
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sizes. What it means to hack, might mean[br]something to you, but might mean something
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very different to you. And we decided as[br]anthropologists, we think it's very
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important to represent a certain culture[br]in a certain way. We're not just hackers
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in hoodies. It's a really diverse culture.[br]So we're going to talk about that today.
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Biella: All right. So like, how did this project[br]come into being? Like, why are we here?
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Why did we spend the last year doing this?[br]Well, you know, first of all, it wasn't
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created. I didn't create it because I had[br]this idea in mind. It was created because
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I started to collect videos for a reason.[br]I'm a professor and I twice a week stand
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in front of students who are on the[br]Internet, on Facebook, maybe buying shoes.
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And it's really hard to get their[br]attention. And you know, what I found
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using videos in class was an amazing way[br]to get them off Facebook and paying
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attention to what to me. Right. So over[br]the years, I just collected a lot of
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videos. Right. Video after video after[br]video after video. And in certain
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point. I was like, you know, I have this[br]private collection, semi private
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collection they use in class. Why don't I[br]transform it into a public resource and
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more so as someone who studied hackers for[br]many years, why don't I kind of make it
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into a collaborative project? Why don't I[br]tap into the kind of expertise that exists
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among hackers and journalists and[br]researchers and academics and draw them
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in? And so I decided to do that right.[br]Until about a year and a half ago, I
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brought together a couple of other people[br]like Paula, Chris Kelty, who's another
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curator. And I said, like, let's get this[br]going. So when we were kind of fashioning
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the project, we were also thinking like,[br]what are we trying to do with this project?
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Right. You're not my students. I don't see[br]you twice a week. And so we came up with
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some goals and we don't know if we're[br]gonna achieve these goals. The site
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literally is going live like right now.[br]But this is what we're trying to do with a
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project. We're trying to chip away at[br]simplistic conceptions and stereotypes of
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hackers. We know these exist. Can we chip[br]away at them? Right. We want to offer new
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perspectives on what hackers have actually[br]done and what they do. A really important
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thing which Paula has already kind of[br]mentioned is showcase the diversity of
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hacking. Right. People who do block chain[br]and free software and security. And
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there's there's similarities, but there's[br]also differences like let's try to show
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this. And while this is not an archive,[br]this is not the Internet Archive. We are
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trying to kind of preserve bits and bytes[br]of hacker history. So these are the four
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goals. And we do feel that video. Right,[br]is a nice medium, a mechanism to achieve
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these four goals. It's persuasive, it's[br]compelling, it's memorable. It's fun. Like
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we like to waste time at work on video.[br]Right. So we're like, hey, let's add a
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little persuasive punch to Tex. And this[br]is why we decided to do it this way.
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Paula: Exactly. So what happens when you click on[br]the site today and how is it organized? We
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want to show you a little bit of of the[br]actual architecture of the site itself. So
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we got. When you click on the Web site,[br]you see as... you see certain categories,
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we've grouped the videos in two different[br]categories because as you say, there's a
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huge diversity. So you can see here,[br]Biella is lovely here, pointing out the
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beautiful categories. We've got anti[br]security hackers, block chain hackers.
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We've got free and open the software,[br]we've got phreaking, we've got hacker
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depictions. You can look at all sorts of[br]sort of different categories. You go onto
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a category, website site and then you have[br]a blurb about what this subculture of
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hacking is all about or what this what the[br]aim is, exactly what the theme is. And
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then you have all sorts of little videos[br]that last maybe 30 seconds, maybe a few
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minutes. And under these videos, you would[br]look at the video and then you would have
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a little bit of a blurb. It's not an[br]essay. It's not a book. It's not some
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boring academic text. It's supposed to be[br]funny. It's supposed to be for your
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grandmother's to read. It's supposed to be[br]actually accessible and understandable.
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Right. So you have the video and the[br]actual text itself. Right. So this is how
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it looks like. And this is maybe some[br]sample of our content itself. What do we
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have? We've got 42 entries at the moment[br]which we've collected from, as I said,
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various different academics with different[br]authors. And by the end of 2020, we would
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love to have around 100, 100 entries and[br]we'd try to publish around 50 or 20
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entries. Biella: after that. Because it's really[br]brutally hard to edit academics. Paula: Exactly.
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Exactly. And so we've got what you'll[br]find. These are just some examples. We'll
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get into some really of the videos in just[br]a moment. But for example, you would look
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at hackers and engineers humming at the[br]Internet Engineering Task Force, or you
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look at an entry that's about the[br]programing legend, of course, Grace Hopper
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being interviewed by a clue, David[br]Letterman. Maybe you guys have seen this
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video, a block chain ad that people see it[br]or you'd say you'd ask, is this real? It's
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kind of wacky ad or is it parody? And when[br]you watch you, you have to know that this
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is actually real. The actor Robert Redford[br]showing off his mad social engineering
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skills with the help of cakes and balloons[br]or how to make sense of why algerien hacker
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Hamza Bender Lodge dressed by U.S.[br]government smiles and how many people from
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Algeria understand his grin. So this kind[br]of various diversity of really what
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hacking is really all about. Biella: But but[br]we're here to get the video party started.
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Paula: Exact right.[br]From audience: Exactly!
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Finaly. Fine. Let's get started. Yeah.[br]Biella: with a little Background. Paula: Exactly. Exactly.
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Ok. So which I'm going to start[br]with the day. You start. You start. Biella: All
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right. So we thought it would be a good[br]idea to start with phone phreaking,
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because phone phreaking really developed[br]at the same time. If not kind of before
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computer hacking. And we're going to show[br]Joy Bubbles. Joe Ingrassia, who is, you
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know, often considered to be the[br]grandfather of phone phreaking. So let's
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go to a video.[br]Text from Video Speaker1: In the
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days when calls went through, the[br]operators phreaking wasn't possible. But as
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humans switchboards were replaced by[br]mechanical systems, different noises were
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used to trigger the switches.
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Whistling
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If you'd had[br]perfect pitch like blind phone free Joe
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Ingrassia, you could whistle calls through[br]the network. Joe: Let's see if I make it this time. This is really hard
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to do, it sounded like all the tones were present, [br]so the phone should be ringing a bell. Now. Okay.
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I get the phone, it just take a little while... [br]Speaker1: He even showed
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off his skills at the local media. Speaker2: From his one [br]phone to a town in Illinois and back
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to his other phone, a thousand miles phone[br]call by whistling. Joe Ingrassia....
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[br]Biella: right? Very cool, right? So Joe Ingrassia
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is featured. And Joan Donovan, who is like[br]a mad researcher at Harvard University,
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wrote a really awesome entry about that.[br]No, of course, she emphasizes things like,
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you know, while hacking is often tied to[br]computers, it's often tied to any system
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that you could understand, improve, fix,[br]undermine. And the phreakers really showed
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that. Right. And of course, the history of[br]phone phreaking is about blind kids. Not
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everyone who is a freak was blind, but[br]many of them were. They met each other in
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camp and kind of exchanged information.[br]And that was one of the ways in which
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phone phreaking grew. Phone phreaking[br]really grew as well. When a big article in
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1971 was published by Roone Rosin Bomb in[br]Esquire magazine, who has read that
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article? Is anyone? It's incredible. We[br]mentioned it, I think, in a piece. Check
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it out. Phreaking freaking exploded after[br]that article. The spelling phreaking
0:10:43.995,0:10:49.637
changed from Capital F Freak to Ph.[br]Because of that article, phreaking also
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grew when blue boxes were created. Right.[br]This is also something that Joan writes
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about in her entry. One of the cool things[br]that Joan writes about and then I'm going
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to turn it over to Paula again is that[br]some phreaks train birds, OK, to freaking
0:11:05.524,0:11:10.405
phreak. Let's just leave it at that,[br]because that's pretty cool. All right.
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Paula: OK. Are you guys ready now to[br]cringe? There we need a little bit of a
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cringing moment as well. So without[br]further ado, this is Steve Ballmer that
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would like to do some dancing. Biella: [br]From Microsoft. You just don't know.
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Music
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Paula: OK. Yeah, that's right. Biella: [br]I just want to say one little
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thing. Paula: Yeah, of course there's a remix of[br]this with goats screaming like, look it
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up. It's awesome. Paula: Exactly. But why do we show[br]Steve Ballmer the sort of like Godfather?
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Exactly. Kind of an anti hacker of[br]sorts. I myself am a staff who've worked
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among a corporate culture of software[br]developers. Aren't hackers per se? But if
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you think of a figure like Steve Ballmer,[br]a lot of you guys who perhaps identify
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yourself as hackers, you have day jobs,[br]you go to work and you have to make some
0:12:22.255,0:12:26.451
money in order to live and do work on your[br]own projects. And you often have to face
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sort of mini Steve Ballmers at work. And[br]this is a quote that I have my own entry
0:12:31.366,0:12:35.530
that I did right next to this video. Steve[br]Ballmer, even Ballmers unbridled display
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of exuberance is exceptional. Many[br]software developers will have to deal with
0:12:39.758,0:12:44.265
Mini Steve Ballmers every day. Biella:[br]We are sorry that you do. But If you do - you do.
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Paula: Exactly. And so this but this exuberance is
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all about these sort of slogans of win[br]big, save the world while building
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technology, be awesome, be true, whatever[br]it is your corporate slogan is. And
0:12:56.271,0:13:01.655
there is, I think, the way in which the[br]software developer and sort of the hackers
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that work in their day jobs challenge this[br]sort of really intense exuberance of
0:13:06.199,0:13:11.403
wearing your corporate T-shirt and smiling[br]every day in a way in which you hack your
0:13:11.403,0:13:16.247
daily projects, you work on your own[br]private projects on the side. You actually
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do have many acts of resistance in a way[br]to this kind of loud, massive exuberance.
0:13:22.723,0:13:27.957
And I talk about these sort of side line[br]mini hacks that happen on an everyday
0:13:27.957,0:13:30.632
corporate culture.[br]Biella: Check out your entry. It's really
0:13:30.632,0:13:35.666
funny. All right. So now we're going to[br]hacktivists. So who here has heard of
0:13:35.666,0:13:40.597
Phineas Fisher? All right. Awesome. Just[br]in case, for those who are watching the
0:13:40.597,0:13:45.193
video now or later, I'm going to give a[br]little bit of background. But I love this
0:13:45.193,0:13:50.597
video about Phineas Fisher because he's[br]explained what he or the group has done,
0:13:50.597,0:13:54.458
but he also does kind of a very clever[br]media hack. So for those that don't know
0:13:54.458,0:14:01.415
who Phineas Fisher, is he or the group is a[br]hacktivists that claims to be inspired by
0:14:01.415,0:14:06.347
Anonymous, says Jeremy Hammond. He's[br]hacked into various corporations from
0:14:06.347,0:14:11.611
FinFisher to hacking team. And what he did[br]was take documents, take e-mail and then
0:14:11.611,0:14:16.033
publish them. And these were important in[br]ways that I'll talk about in a moment.
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He's donated, I think, stolen bitcoins to[br]rush over government. In this fall.
0:14:23.687,0:14:30.042
He published a manifesto kind of calling[br]for public interest hacking and claims he
0:14:30.042,0:14:34.761
would give one hundred thousand dollars to[br]anyone who does this. So now I'm going to
0:14:34.761,0:14:39.524
show the first and I believe only[br]interview that he has done. And he did
0:14:39.524,0:14:49.529
this with Vise News a couple of years ago.[br]Video starts
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Let's do this. These are the exact words[br]from our live text exchange, voiced by one
0:14:54.621,0:14:57.907
of my colleagues.[br]Colleage: So why did you hack hacking
0:14:57.907,0:15:01.167
team?[br]Cermet: Well, I just for the citizen lab
0:15:01.167,0:15:06.453
reports on FinFisher and hacking team and[br]thought, that's fucked up. And I hacked
0:15:06.453,0:15:08.594
them.[br]Colleage: What was the goal on hacking the
0:15:08.594,0:15:14.343
hacking team data? Were you tried to stop them?[br]Cermet: For the locals. I don't really
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expect leaking data to stop a company, but[br]hopefully can at least set them back a bit
0:15:18.459,0:15:23.035
and give some breathing room to the people[br]being targeted with their software.
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Video ends[br]Biella: OK, so this does not yet exist on
0:15:25.944,0:15:29.974
Hack_Curio. I have to write the[br]entry, but because I was so busy getting
0:15:29.974,0:15:33.128
the other site in preparation, I haven't[br]done it, but it will happen in the next
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few weeks. But what I love about this[br]video is, first of all, he's like hacking
0:15:37.602,0:15:44.771
media representations. Right? I mean, even[br]when awesome journalists like Motherboard
0:15:44.771,0:15:52.046
publish on hackers or other kind of[br]entities, they still kind of use a masked
0:15:52.046,0:15:56.264
hacker even once they published about[br]FinFisher and they put like a mask on him.
0:15:56.264,0:16:00.791
And it's like hackers have heat, like they[br]don't need a mask. Right. And there is
0:16:00.791,0:16:04.666
this this sense where there's always a[br]kind of demonic, masked figure. And he was
0:16:04.666,0:16:09.141
like, OK, I'll do this interview, but you[br]have to represent me as like a lovable
0:16:09.141,0:16:15.034
Muppet like figure. Right? So he's there[br]hacking the media. But what's also really
0:16:15.034,0:16:20.859
interesting in it. And you watch the full[br]video, it's kind of amazing. Is that, you
0:16:20.859,0:16:24.675
know, he kind of claims, oh, I didn't have[br]much of in fact, I don't think he could do
0:16:24.675,0:16:29.053
anything, but in fact, first of all, the[br]information that was released really
0:16:29.053,0:16:33.704
reaffirms what people suspected. For[br]example, and in the case of hacking team
0:16:33.704,0:16:41.308
who was selling problematic exploit[br]spyware to dictatorial regimes. We really
0:16:41.308,0:16:46.414
got a confirmation that this was[br]happening. And in fact, eventually hacking
0:16:46.414,0:16:51.464
team even lost her license. Right. This[br]was like a direct effect from what
0:16:51.464,0:16:56.911
FinFischer did. So really, it's it's a[br]kind of amazing video that showcases what
0:16:56.911,0:17:01.465
he was doing, his reasoning, and then was[br]a performance, literally, a puppet that
0:17:01.465,0:17:07.397
hacked the media. OK, so now we're going[br]to rewind a little bit and go back in
0:17:07.397,0:17:13.624
time. So a lot of hackers care about[br]cryptography. Right? And ever since the
0:17:13.624,0:17:21.822
cipher punks. And since that period, there[br]have been projects from TOR to Signal that
0:17:21.822,0:17:27.050
have enabled cryptography. That has been[br]really important for human rights
0:17:27.050,0:17:34.425
activists and others. But one of the[br]great, great kind of encryption projects
0:17:34.425,0:17:39.451
came from this fellow, Tim Jenkins, who[br]here in the room has heard of Tim Jenkins.
0:17:39.451,0:17:45.315
OK. This is amazing. This is why we're[br]doing kind of hack_curio. So Tim Jenkins is
0:17:45.315,0:17:53.111
from South Africa. And beginning in 1988,[br]secret messages were sent and received
0:17:53.111,0:17:58.313
regularly across South Africa borders[br]using an encrypted telematics system
0:17:58.313,0:18:03.519
assembling assemble during the final years[br]of the South African liberation struggle
0:18:03.519,0:18:08.923
and Tim Jenkins, along with Ronnie[br]Press, who has since passed away, created
0:18:08.923,0:18:13.348
the system. And Tim Jenkins was kind of[br]like a phone phreak. And that was one of
0:18:13.348,0:18:17.569
the reasons, like he was good at working[br]with phones. And what was amazing about
0:18:17.569,0:18:22.856
this system, which was part of Operation[br]Vula, was that allowed people in South
0:18:22.856,0:18:30.985
Africa to communicate with leaders in[br]exile - in London. Right? And Tim Jenkin
0:18:30.985,0:18:36.040
created this system. I'm going to show a[br]video about it in a moment. And Sophie
0:18:36.040,0:18:41.591
Dupin has written a terrific entry. The[br]reason why we have him with the key there
0:18:41.591,0:18:46.180
was that like, you know, the South African[br]apartheid government did not really like
0:18:46.180,0:18:52.247
Tim Jenkins, so they threw him in jail.[br]Well, a lot of hackers lock pick. He
0:18:52.247,0:18:59.918
actually created 10 wooden keys secretly[br]in the wooden shop and broke out of jail.
0:18:59.918,0:19:04.324
I mean, talk about like taking lock[br]picking to like another sort of level. All
0:19:04.324,0:19:10.161
right. So let's listen and see the video[br]about this incredible program.
0:19:10.161,0:19:12.787
Video starts[br]Tim Jenkin: After we sent in the first
0:19:12.787,0:19:18.102
computer. We expect things to start[br]immediately, but it actually took a couple
0:19:18.102,0:19:24.101
of weeks. And then suddenly one day I was[br]sitting at my desk and the telephone
0:19:24.101,0:19:29.831
answering machine suddenly started[br]roaring and I thought, this must be the
0:19:29.831,0:19:33.831
wrong number or something. But then, sure[br]enough, I heard the distinctive tone of
0:19:33.831,0:19:38.039
the messages and I could hear this thing[br]coming through the tape. Modem 14.5k
0:19:38.039,0:19:42.764
sound Word, and word, and word. And[br]then it stopped and I loaded the message
0:19:42.764,0:19:48.419
onto my computer. In fact, it was a report[br]from Matt. And sure enough, there was our
0:19:48.419,0:19:53.196
first message. Absolutely perfect. sound of a
0:19:53.196,0:19:58.321
printer working[br]Video ends
0:19:58.321,0:20:05.051
Biella: Ah, fax machine. OK. So this is from the [br]entry by Sophie Dupin, who is writing a
0:20:05.051,0:20:08.913
dissertation on this topic. The[br]international hacker community has since
0:20:08.913,0:20:12.681
taken notice of Tim Jenkins and the Vula[br]encrypted communication system that
0:20:12.681,0:20:17.504
embodies so many qualities often[br]associated with exceptional, with an
0:20:17.504,0:20:23.038
exceptional hack. Elegant, clever, usable[br]and pragmatic. Right? Jenkins has been
0:20:23.038,0:20:28.650
invited to speak at the Berlin Logan[br]Symposium in 2016 and to lock picking
0:20:28.650,0:20:34.573
communities in the Netherlands and the[br]United States. In 2018 the RSA Security
0:20:34.573,0:20:40.611
Conference gave Jenkin the first award for[br]excellence in humanitarian service. So
0:20:40.611,0:20:46.258
just like one last thing, this is a good[br]reminder that histories of computer
0:20:46.258,0:20:51.679
hacking are often skewed. They often[br]actually start with the United States.
0:20:51.679,0:20:57.348
When, for example, in Europe with the CCC,[br]that story's been told in bits and pieces,
0:20:57.348,0:21:04.330
but deserves a much longer or much larger[br]showcase. And actually this example also
0:21:04.330,0:21:10.050
shows that, for example, the history of[br]encryption when it comes to communication
0:21:10.050,0:21:14.833
didn't even necessarily start in the[br]United States. Right? And so it's really,
0:21:14.833,0:21:19.169
really important to kind of showcase these[br]histories that haven't been told
0:21:19.169,0:21:21.379
elsewhere.[br]Paula: So maybe by now you're kind of
0:21:21.379,0:21:27.347
getting at the fact that we see hacking as[br]a diverse practice. Hackers as a diverse
0:21:27.347,0:21:31.981
group of people who do different things.[br]And at the moment we're going I want to
0:21:31.981,0:21:38.054
come back to the ways in which hackers[br]challenge power through challenging really
0:21:38.054,0:21:43.196
the very stereotype of what gender means[br]and challenging, really gender politics.
0:21:43.196,0:21:48.693
And it will start to turn to this topic by[br]looking at an entry that a woman named
0:21:48.693,0:21:54.284
Christina Dunbar Hester has done on a[br]woman named Naomi Cedar. And some of you
0:21:54.284,0:22:00.418
probably know Naomi Cedar. This is part of[br]her entry. And she wrote, Naomi Cedar is a
0:22:00.418,0:22:04.355
programmer and core participant in the[br]Python programing language community. As a
0:22:04.355,0:22:08.677
trans identified person, Cedar grappled[br]with whether she would have to give up
0:22:08.677,0:22:13.352
everything in order to transition and[br]whether the community would accept her for
0:22:13.352,0:22:19.187
doing so. So let's watch a clip of the[br]video and let's see how Naomi Cedar challenge that.
0:22:19.187,0:22:26.087
Biella: I think she gave this talk at[br]PyCon, the Python Open Source Developer
0:22:26.087,0:22:30.077
conference, and it's really incredible[br]talk. I really encourage you to watch the
0:22:30.077,0:22:33.480
whole talk. But this is a question. This[br]is the moment where she's like, do I have
0:22:33.480,0:22:37.232
to leave the community or can I transition[br]in the community?
0:22:37.232,0:22:39.632
Paula: Exactly. So let's watch a tiny[br]clip.
0:22:39.632,0:22:42.826
clip starts[br]I decided that to do that would probably
0:22:42.826,0:22:47.928
mean giving up everything. Remember, back[br]at 13, I had absorbed this into my brain
0:22:47.928,0:22:51.536
that the only way you were going to get[br]out of this was to basically leave
0:22:51.536,0:22:56.577
everything. And this was a very painful[br]thing to think about. But like a lot of
0:22:56.577,0:22:59.709
trans people, I had come to the point[br]where even if I lost everything, that was
0:22:59.709,0:23:08.744
fine. So I started to think about other[br]alternatives here. I had toyed with the
0:23:08.744,0:23:12.640
idea of doing the education summit as a[br]farewell thing to the community. I would
0:23:12.640,0:23:16.615
do it and then disappear, go into the[br]witness protection program. The
0:23:16.615,0:23:20.754
only problem was I actually started[br]accelerating the pace of my transition
0:23:20.754,0:23:26.118
because, well, it was just such freaky[br]relief to start moving in that direction
0:23:26.118,0:23:31.145
that that wouldn't work. So I actually[br]thought about what was for me hacking back
0:23:31.145,0:23:36.892
to Laverne Cox, a very revolutionary idea.[br]What if I just did it and was open about
0:23:36.892,0:23:42.856
it? First thing I looked at codes of[br]conduct. I looked for specifics. What
0:23:42.856,0:23:49.137
happens to me if there is a problem? If I[br]am harassed? This was important to me.
0:23:49.137,0:23:54.417
Other thing I did was I started telling a[br]few people Jesse Nola, Avi Alaska. Some
0:23:54.417,0:23:58.461
people I would work with PyCon on and they[br]were all pretty cool with the idea. And
0:23:58.461,0:24:01.821
the more I talked about it, the more I[br]decided that I would go ahead and take
0:24:01.821,0:24:06.329
that chance. So I did. I started by[br]teaching at some Python workshops for
0:24:06.329,0:24:12.230
women. I spoke at some conferences. We[br]went to PyCon . It was good. The education
0:24:12.230,0:24:16.029
summit was fine. Okay. Some of the people[br]I worked with in organizing it were a
0:24:16.029,0:24:19.917
little bit confused when the names on the[br]emails changed. I apologize, but in
0:24:19.917,0:24:25.533
general it went pretty well. In fact, the[br]more open I was, the easier it was on. It
0:24:25.533,0:24:29.429
was for me because I didn't have to worry[br]about being outed. And it was easier for
0:24:29.429,0:24:33.272
other people because they certainly knew[br]what to expect. The other interesting
0:24:33.272,0:24:37.297
sidelight is that when I told people they[br]sometimes felt an obligation to share some
0:24:37.297,0:24:41.728
deep, dark secret about themselves, like I[br]kind of thrump them and they had to answer
0:24:41.728,0:24:50.267
back. So my takeaway here is that, we talk[br]a lot about diversity and that's real. So
0:24:50.267,0:24:56.818
we should be ending on this point, except[br]that I'm a contrarian in my old age.
0:24:56.818,0:25:02.816
So it is not quite all rainbows and[br]unicorns or as you might put it, this is
0:25:02.816,0:25:09.441
kind of common in social justice circles[br]right now. We don't get a cookie.
0:25:09.441,0:25:11.621
Video ends[br]Paula: All right. And yeah, yeah,
0:25:11.621,0:25:13.940
Paula and Biella are applauding [br]Biella: He's a very powerful player.
0:25:13.940,0:25:19.246
Paula: Exactly. And I guess we could also[br]say that the next if I want to show that
0:25:19.246,0:25:23.997
after the entry by Christina Dunbar[br]Hester, Naomi Cedar actually gave a response
0:25:23.997,0:25:27.242
to this entry, which we've also published,[br]which we also want to do. We want to have
0:25:27.242,0:25:32.353
a discussion between some of the responses[br]to the actual very areas.
0:25:32.353,0:25:35.188
Biella: So we actually wanted to quote it[br]in full.
0:25:35.188,0:25:40.771
Paula: Yeah, exactly. So perhaps. Let's[br]read, let's read this this section from
0:25:40.771,0:25:47.416
the response of Naomi Cedar. PyCon itself[br]has continued to evolve into an ever more
0:25:47.416,0:25:51.436
diverse place with an ever stronger[br]representation of queer folks, people of
0:25:51.436,0:25:55.511
color, people who speak different[br]languages, etc. Codes of conduct are
0:25:55.511,0:26:00.615
nearly universal these days, and more[br]often than not, communities insist that
0:26:00.615,0:26:05.317
they be well crafted and meaningful and[br]backed up by real enforcement. Even in
0:26:05.317,0:26:10.168
these retrograde times of official attacks[br]on the rights of so many groups, we have
0:26:10.168,0:26:15.110
come a long way. But just as I said five[br]years ago, it's still not all rainbows and
0:26:15.110,0:26:20.113
unicorns. Too many groups throughout the[br]open source world globally are making only
0:26:20.113,0:26:24.469
token efforts to foster inclusion. And in[br]my opinion, too many members of privileged
0:26:24.469,0:26:29.204
groups tend to focus on supervisual or[br]cosmetic changes rather than addressing
0:26:29.204,0:26:33.794
the underlying fundamental issues.[br]Marginalized groups face. It doesn't take
0:26:33.794,0:26:39.412
a bit away from how far we've come to also[br]acknowledge how much we still have to do.
0:26:39.412,0:26:43.503
Naomi Cedar. So this really part we wanted[br]to discuss this in the way in which
0:26:43.503,0:26:48.382
hacking is also a practice of challenging[br]power, challenging stereotypes and
0:26:48.382,0:26:52.276
challenging really gender norms in many[br]ways. All right, let's move on.
0:26:52.276,0:26:57.083
Biella: All right. So the final frontier.[br]We have three more videos to show. Before
0:26:57.083,0:27:03.517
we get to the Q and A. In all videos[br]relate to geopolitics and hacking. You
0:27:03.517,0:27:08.482
know, hacking has always been political in[br]some fashion, if for no other reason than
0:27:08.482,0:27:12.658
sometimes laws are challenged. You're[br]you're doing what you're doing, something
0:27:12.658,0:27:16.520
that someone doesn't want you to do.[br]Right. But there's only been certain
0:27:16.520,0:27:22.151
moments, where nation states have been[br]interested in hacking or there have been
0:27:22.151,0:27:26.755
sort of ways in which nation states have[br]used hacking. For example, recently in
0:27:26.755,0:27:32.699
order to kind of engage in international[br]politics. So we're going to kind of focus
0:27:32.699,0:27:39.838
on these last, the last three videos will[br]focus on these issues. We're at the CCC.
0:27:39.838,0:27:44.667
So of course, I wanted to show a video[br]related to CCC. Unfortunately, I don't have
0:27:44.667,0:27:52.619
one related to the German CCC. Please do[br]send good videos related to the CCC to me.
0:27:52.619,0:27:59.665
But I am going to show one related to the[br]FCCC established in Lion by Jean-Bernard
0:27:59.665,0:28:05.926
Condat. So do people know what the F[br]stands for? All right. What
0:28:05.926,0:28:08.419
does it stand for?[br]One Auditor: French? Biella: French.
0:28:08.419,0:28:16.442
OK. Once you see the video. Oh no.[br]Hold on. You will also see that it stands
0:28:16.442,0:28:23.583
for fake and fuck as well, because[br]basically the French chapter of the CCC
0:28:23.583,0:28:30.070
was established in part to try to entrap[br]hackers in order to kind of work for the
0:28:30.070,0:28:35.529
French government. It's a fascinating[br]story that's been told in bits and pieces
0:28:35.529,0:28:39.098
and I'm going to say a little bit more[br]about it. But now I'm going to show a clip
0:28:39.098,0:28:43.928
from a French documentary that kind of,[br]you know, charts a little bit of that
0:28:43.928,0:28:47.025
history. It's in French with subtitles.
0:28:47.025,0:31:42.793
Video is in progress
0:31:42.793,0:31:50.829
Biella: OK. So pretty incredible, right?[br]And this story has been told in bits and
0:31:50.829,0:31:54.489
pieces by French journalists. I'm[br]working with another French journalist to
0:31:54.489,0:32:00.823
try to kind of uncover the fuller history,[br]as well tell the story of kind of American
0:32:00.823,0:32:04.616
and European hackers who did not get[br]recruited by intelligence, but who
0:32:04.616,0:32:09.244
nevertheless came from the underground,[br]because they were breaking into systems,
0:32:09.244,0:32:13.661
not maliciously, but they learned a lot[br]and they had really valuable knowledge
0:32:13.661,0:32:21.661
that no one else had. I mean, it's kind of[br]really incredible, right? And, you know,
0:32:21.661,0:32:25.658
this history, whether it's just that the[br]transformation of the underground into
0:32:25.658,0:32:31.065
security hackers or in the case of France,[br]where some portion of people were tapped
0:32:31.065,0:32:37.907
to work for intelligence informally,[br]formerly with pressure. Right. Has yet to
0:32:37.907,0:32:43.199
be written. And there's many remarkable[br]elements about this. But basically, I do
0:32:43.199,0:32:48.271
think it's remarkable that it's a bunch of[br]kind of amateurs who just were obsessed
0:32:48.271,0:32:53.139
with with networks who were the ones[br]holding the special knowledge that were
0:32:53.139,0:32:57.732
needed, that was needed by corporations[br]and intelligence in order to start
0:32:57.732,0:33:02.635
securing systems. Right. The other kind of[br]really interesting thing is that some of
0:33:02.635,0:33:09.935
the best underground non malicious hacker[br]crews were European. TESO, which had a lot
0:33:09.935,0:33:18.297
of Austrian and German members. ADM, which[br]is from France, was considered to be the
0:33:18.297,0:33:23.239
best at exploit writing. Rights. So the[br]entry, which I'm going to write with a
0:33:23.239,0:33:26.764
French journalist is going to reflect on[br]this. And this is actually a big project
0:33:26.764,0:33:32.253
that I'm working on as well. So I'll have[br]more to say about it later. All right. So
0:33:32.253,0:33:35.741
going from the past to the present.[br]Paula: Exactly. And I guess we couldn't
0:33:35.741,0:33:41.351
talk to you politics and hacking without[br]talking about Trump, talking about Putin.
0:33:41.351,0:33:45.915
A slew of politicians that we know in[br]recent years has used the hacker for their
0:33:45.915,0:33:51.255
own political discourse, for their somehow[br]political gain. And with this next video
0:33:51.255,0:33:57.818
will show us just that. This is our hacker[br]depictions section. It was posted by a
0:33:57.818,0:34:01.733
scholar named Marietta Brezovich. So[br]without further ado, let's listen to the
0:34:01.733,0:34:04.681
way in which Putin sees the hacker.
0:34:04.681,0:35:06.412
Video is in Progress
0:35:06.412,0:35:15.008
Paula: So I don't know if Putin was reading [br]a Russian Hacker for the night. Biella: best image
0:35:15.008,0:35:19.663
of the night. Possibly. I don't know.[br]Paula: We weren't sure if Putin is reading
0:35:19.663,0:35:23.929
Paul Graham's Hackers & Painters on the[br]toilet or some of his other Hacker
0:35:23.929,0:35:26.449
cultures literature. But it seems like[br]he's getting something right. Right. We
0:35:26.449,0:35:30.196
kind of think, hey, you kind of got it.[br]It's not hackers actually.
0:35:30.196,0:35:32.932
Biella: well, except for one part.[br]Paula: Exactly. That's what we want to
0:35:32.932,0:35:37.288
say. In some ways, yes. It's true. The[br]hackers are artistic and creative, etc.
0:35:37.288,0:35:38.960
Biella: They just don't wake up early[br]in the morning.
0:35:38.960,0:35:41.747
Paula: Exactly. Maybe they don't wake up[br]early in the morning. But what's
0:35:41.747,0:35:46.065
important, I think in here and this is[br]also what Brezovich points out in her
0:35:46.065,0:35:51.566
entry, is that he uses this, of course,[br]for his political gain to show that he is
0:35:51.566,0:35:55.630
not influencing any hackers or any[br]technologists, who maybe identify as
0:35:55.630,0:36:02.041
hackers or not. He's not influencing them.[br]And because they are so free and artistic
0:36:02.041,0:36:06.422
and sort of living in their sort of creative[br]world that they're beyond his control.
0:36:06.422,0:36:10.451
Right? So partially it's true. But[br]partially he's gonna employing this to
0:36:10.451,0:36:15.485
make a political statement about his non[br]involvement with any sort of role.
0:36:15.485,0:36:18.321
Biella: And what's interesting is all[br]evidence points to the fact that that
0:36:18.321,0:36:23.203
technologists who did the hacking just[br]work at intelligence organizations.
0:36:23.203,0:36:25.127
Paula: Exactly.[br]Biella: All right. So we just had one more
0:36:25.127,0:36:31.195
video and we'll end on a positive note.[br]Right? A lot of stuff around hackers is
0:36:31.195,0:36:34.389
sometimes depressing, especially when it[br]comes to the law. They get arrested, they
0:36:34.389,0:36:36.985
get thrown in jail. They commit suicide.[br]Paula: True.
0:36:36.985,0:36:40.826
Biella: And so we want to showcase a video[br]that covers British and Finnish hacker
0:36:40.826,0:36:45.071
Lauri Love, who's presented here at the[br]CCC. Some of you may know that he face
0:36:45.071,0:36:50.127
extradition to the United States due to[br]his alleged involvement with Anonymous
0:36:50.127,0:36:57.885
operation called #OpLastResort, which was[br]kind of in support of Aaron Swartz, who
0:36:57.885,0:37:01.912
had committed suicide when he was facing[br]many criminal charges. And we'll watch a
0:37:01.912,0:37:04.710
clip where parliamentarians and others[br]debate his case.
0:37:04.710,0:37:08.299
Video proceedes
0:37:08.299,0:37:10.615
A young man with Asperger's syndrome
0:37:10.615,0:37:16.617
awaits extradition to the United States,[br]facing charges of computer hacking and is
0:37:16.617,0:37:21.327
then likely to kill himself. It sounds[br]familiar. He's not, of course, Gary
0:37:21.327,0:37:25.913
McKinnon, who is saved by the prime[br]minister. But Lauri Love, who faces, in
0:37:25.913,0:37:30.212
a fact, a death sentence. So when the[br]prime minister introduced the form above
0:37:30.212,0:37:34.409
to, in her words, provide greater[br]safeguards for individuals, surely she
0:37:34.409,0:37:40.738
expensed it to protect the vulnerable,[br]like Gary McKinnon, like Lauri Love. The
0:37:40.738,0:37:44.715
honorable gentleman. My honorable friend[br]obviously campaigned long and hard for
0:37:44.715,0:37:48.768
Gary McKinnon. And obviously I took that[br]decision because at that time it was a
0:37:48.768,0:37:52.949
decision for the home secretary to decide[br]whether there was a human rights case for
0:37:52.949,0:37:57.453
an individual not to be extradited. We[br]subsequently changed the legal position on
0:37:57.453,0:38:01.148
that. So this is now a matter for the[br]courts. There are certain parameters that
0:38:01.148,0:38:04.481
the courts look at in terms of the[br]extradition decision, and that is then
0:38:04.481,0:38:07.848
passed to the home secretary. But it is[br]for the courts to determine the human
0:38:07.848,0:38:12.702
rights aspects of any case that comes[br]forward. It was right, I think, to
0:38:12.702,0:38:19.519
introduce the form box, to make sure that[br]there was that challenge for cases here in
0:38:19.519,0:38:22.930
the United Kingdom, as to whether they[br]should be held here in the United Kingdom.
0:38:22.930,0:38:26.496
But the legal process is very clear and[br]the home secretary is part of that legal
0:38:26.496,0:38:32.000
process.[br]Biella: OK, so the author of the entry,
0:38:32.000,0:38:38.612
Naomi Colvin, is right there in front. [br]And she has a great sentence which
0:38:38.612,0:38:42.631
says in Lauri Love, the U.S. had[br]definitively chosen the wrong target
0:38:42.631,0:38:47.609
principle, passionate and articulate,[br]certainly more articulate than Theresa May
0:38:47.609,0:38:53.267
herself in the clip which accompanies this[br]article, Love versus USA would be one for
0:38:53.267,0:38:58.176
the underdog. And it was Love one. He's[br]not being extradited. And in part, it was
0:38:58.176,0:39:05.107
also because Naomi Colvin was part of the[br]team that stopped it. So let's thank Naomi
0:39:05.107,0:39:15.849
as well as. Applause And it's just[br]really important to document some of the
0:39:15.849,0:39:20.513
wins every once in a while. So do check.[br]Check that out. So we are now going to
0:39:20.513,0:39:24.826
wrap up said that there's going to be 10[br]minutes for Q and A, but a few final
0:39:24.826,0:39:31.309
reflections about this project.[br]Paula: So I think these videos show actual
0:39:31.309,0:39:35.835
hackers and hackings and at a more level[br]meta level demonstrated how hackers have
0:39:35.835,0:39:41.362
become central to our popular imagination.[br]How hackers and hacking are one medium to
0:39:41.362,0:39:44.843
think through digital cultures, to think[br]through politics. I mean, we care about
0:39:44.843,0:39:49.107
culture. We care about representing[br]digging deep, looking at various angles of
0:39:49.107,0:39:52.630
a certain culture. And I think that's the[br]purpose. Where I see this is the purpose
0:39:52.630,0:39:57.511
of Biella and mine, and Chris', and our friends[br]projects is that we really want to take
0:39:57.511,0:40:02.059
the work that we've been doing and really[br]pay tribute to this really huge, diverse
0:40:02.059,0:40:06.868
community that that you are.[br]Biella: On a more practical level being a
0:40:06.868,0:40:13.323
little less meta. We do hope that people[br]assign hack_curio entries in their
0:40:13.323,0:40:16.756
courses. You could use them in high[br]school. You can use them in college
0:40:16.756,0:40:20.840
classes. You know, heck, you know, maybe[br]you could even use them in middle school,
0:40:20.840,0:40:26.455
elementary. I don't know if that will[br]work. But get it out there. And also for
0:40:26.455,0:40:30.112
some of you, I think it will be fun to[br]look at different tidbits of hacker
0:40:30.112,0:40:35.405
history. And when you're at home for the[br]holidays before you come to the CCC and
0:40:35.405,0:40:41.051
you're like, man, my parents don't really[br]understand what I do. So you could fire up
0:40:41.051,0:40:44.707
a video that kind of represents what you[br]do and fire up another video that
0:40:44.707,0:40:49.855
represents what you don't do.[br]Paula: And have a discussion. Haven't
0:40:49.855,0:40:51.740
especially.[br]Biella: And so this is our last slide.
0:40:51.740,0:40:58.594
What next? The site is Life. Share It. Our[br]Twitter address is up there. We consider
0:40:58.594,0:41:03.834
this a soft launch. We have 42 entries,[br]but we'll get some feedback and tweet
0:41:03.834,0:41:09.237
things, send video suggestions, spread the[br]word. And to end before Q and A. We just
0:41:09.237,0:41:13.476
really want to thank the CCC. We want to[br]thank Lisa for having us here. This is
0:41:13.476,0:41:18.830
really an amazing place to launch. And we[br]also want to thank everyone who made this
0:41:18.830,0:41:24.242
possible from funding to the authors to[br]the entire hack_curio team. So thank you
0:41:24.242,0:41:39.390
so much. And we're here for a little Q &[br]A. Applause
0:41:39.390,0:41:43.158
Herald: Thanks a lot for this beautiful[br]talk. We are now open for the
0:41:43.158,0:41:46.738
question. Mics. If there's any questions[br]from the audience, please just stand up to
0:41:46.738,0:41:58.816
one of the mics. Paula: Don't be shy. Herald: Nobody is[br]more interested in hacking culture? Are
0:41:58.816,0:42:00.962
you overwhelmed?[br]Paula: Someone.
0:42:00.962,0:42:03.621
Herald: Yeah. There's someone on mic 1.[br]Please.
0:42:03.621,0:42:07.552
Mic1: Thank you for this talk and for[br]the energy that was in your talk. It was just
0:42:07.552,0:42:15.453
amazing! I have one question to ask. What[br]was like the... way more like
0:42:15.453,0:42:20.299
surprising moments for you in this, like,[br]research journey.
0:42:20.299,0:42:28.318
Paula: OK, that's a good question.[br]Biella: I mean. In terms of the
0:42:28.318,0:42:35.760
project, you know, collaborating with[br]others and building a Web site is very
0:42:35.760,0:42:39.681
different than what academics often do,[br]where we do often have to rely on
0:42:39.681,0:42:44.183
ourselves and we get feedback. You know[br]what I mean? And I think it does give a
0:42:44.183,0:42:50.623
sense of the really beautiful relations[br]that form, where you go back and forth
0:42:50.623,0:42:55.411
with an author, with a web developer. You[br]know, it really does give you a sense of
0:42:55.411,0:43:00.182
the deep social ties that we do have as[br]academics. But I think it's much, much
0:43:00.182,0:43:06.552
deeper with hackers. That's one thing. But[br]I do think I mean, I am frustrated as an
0:43:06.552,0:43:11.857
academic, where a lot of people do have[br]very, very, very narrow conceptions of
0:43:11.857,0:43:16.241
hackers. It's not a perfect world. And[br]there's a lot which, you know, we can
0:43:16.241,0:43:21.745
change. There is very clear also that as[br]academics, we weren't necessarily changing
0:43:21.745,0:43:28.519
perceptions so much. And this project was[br]an effort to finally do that. It's like
0:43:28.519,0:43:32.785
see them like stop listening or reading[br]just my words, because obviously that's
0:43:32.785,0:43:37.590
not really changing chat, you know, so[br]come see some of the videos. Yeah.
0:43:37.590,0:43:42.279
Paula: Yeah. And I guess for me, I also[br]mean, if you work in your own little
0:43:42.279,0:43:46.692
bubble and you work in your own little[br]corner, just in any type of science, you
0:43:46.692,0:43:50.403
don't see as much as what's going on out[br]of there. And I for me, the whole
0:43:50.403,0:43:55.084
definition of what it is to hack what a[br]hacker actually is, you start really
0:43:55.084,0:43:59.939
opening your eyes out when you see while[br]there's 50 hundred other scholars out
0:43:59.939,0:44:03.843
there that are actually think that a[br]hacker is this or hackers that. And I
0:44:03.843,0:44:07.588
think for me, that opened my eyes up[br]really saying, hey, well, this is what you
0:44:07.588,0:44:14.286
think it means. So interesting know.[br]Herald: Thank you. Now a question from
0:44:14.286,0:44:16.854
mic 2, too, please.[br]Mic2: Hi, thank you for the talk. It was
0:44:16.854,0:44:22.061
very enlightening. I have two questions.[br]The first one would be, could you tell us
0:44:22.061,0:44:29.137
maybe a bit more about the server and[br]infrastructure you using or are you just
0:44:29.137,0:44:34.642
linking YouTube videos? And the second one[br]would be, how would you envision future
0:44:34.642,0:44:39.724
engagement with students? Because I'm[br]teaching a course for computer scientists
0:44:39.724,0:44:44.773
undergrads. And we did something[br]similar around movies and descriptions
0:44:44.773,0:44:50.444
that they have to make around hacker[br]movies. And they don't really learn how to
0:44:50.444,0:44:56.217
reflect on social issues a lot in the[br]studies. So I wonder how does this could
0:44:56.217,0:45:02.363
be integrated into platform and how that[br]could how you could engage students further?
0:45:02.363,0:45:05.953
Biella: So great questions. I mean, first[br]of all, for the Web site, it runs on
0:45:05.953,0:45:13.625
WordPress. It just seemed like an easy way[br]to, like, hack it up for this sort of
0:45:13.625,0:45:19.039
thing. And we hired actually a master[br]student from my department at McGill
0:45:19.039,0:45:27.993
University. Thanks to all. You're awesome.[br]And then we're hosting the videos on Vimeo
0:45:27.993,0:45:31.559
and they come from all sorts of different[br]places. That's actually not the best or
0:45:31.559,0:45:36.896
the most ideal solution. And so far as[br]like, you know, who knows if Vimeo is
0:45:36.896,0:45:41.585
going to exist in 15 years? Right.[br]Internet Archive. We looked into them and
0:45:41.585,0:45:46.050
they were kind of like psyched about it,[br]that it was going to be slower to deliver
0:45:46.050,0:45:54.028
the video. Right? So maybe if the project[br]grows, we can at a certain point host our
0:45:54.028,0:46:00.005
own videos. Right? But like we'll have to[br]sort of graduate there at the next level.
0:46:00.005,0:46:05.912
The entries are all going to be creative[br]comments and we're using clips that then we
0:46:05.912,0:46:11.543
cite the entire clip and where it came[br]from. We consider this fair use and for
0:46:11.543,0:46:16.147
those that may be wondering. And so we'll[br]see how that goes.
0:46:16.147,0:46:19.647
Paula: And for the second, I guess I could[br]take the second question. When ever I
0:46:19.647,0:46:23.467
mean, my students are not their digital[br]media students. They're not from computing
0:46:23.467,0:46:29.079
science. But if you ever even try to touch[br]along something around culture or
0:46:29.079,0:46:34.030
something, maybe real social science is[br]always, I think, ask how is power really
0:46:34.030,0:46:37.892
how these people relate to power? How did[br]they relate to critique? How do they use
0:46:37.892,0:46:41.814
these tools to critique something? And I[br]think all of these videos and maybe even
0:46:41.814,0:46:46.411
the videos that your students chose, if[br]they just asked that question, whether
0:46:46.411,0:46:49.915
they're studying computing science,[br]whether they're studying geography or
0:46:49.915,0:46:54.176
whatever it is, if they look at it from a[br]form of power and how it's contested, I
0:46:54.176,0:46:58.479
think that that's a way in which they they[br]really can engage into a certain topic
0:46:58.479,0:47:04.593
really deeply. That's cool. There's a nice[br]little text by Fuko with what's called
0:47:04.593,0:47:09.158
what is critique. That's it. I use it for[br]my students that are non maybe cultural
0:47:09.158,0:47:13.798
studies students or whatever. And there's[br]a nice little text that could be with
0:47:13.798,0:47:16.223
Herald: Thank you. One more question from
0:47:16.223,0:47:19.763
mic 2, please.[br]Mic2: So thank you again. And I wanted
0:47:19.763,0:47:25.618
to ask you, because I looked at the videos[br]on the site and I see a lot of stories of
0:47:25.618,0:47:30.779
single people and I'm quite surprised to[br]find very little stories of communities
0:47:30.779,0:47:36.733
and showcases of hacker spaces. And a lot[br]of researchers I've spoke about are
0:47:36.733,0:47:42.492
actually focusing on like how communities[br]work. So was there any conscious decision
0:47:42.492,0:47:48.200
that you want to tell singular[br]people, singular person stories instead of
0:47:48.200,0:47:53.334
like communities?[br]Biella: First of all, it's a great piece
0:47:53.334,0:47:57.056
of feedback because I mean, one of the[br]things as an anthropologist that I've
0:47:57.056,0:48:01.969
always loved about the hacker world is on[br]the one hand, you know, people often talk
0:48:01.969,0:48:07.514
about rights that are are tied to notions[br]of individualism. But hacking is so
0:48:07.514,0:48:12.829
collectivist. Right. I mean, look at the[br]CCC. I mean, you can't have a better
0:48:12.829,0:48:17.900
example of a kind of ritual, collective,[br]effervescent experience, hacker spaces.
0:48:17.900,0:48:23.059
Right. So I do think it's really important[br]to try to showcase that. And we do, we do
0:48:23.059,0:48:29.295
have videos around hacker spaces and[br]they're being written up like the authors
0:48:29.295,0:48:33.806
are writing about them now. But if that's[br]not coming through the sites, we actually
0:48:33.806,0:48:39.869
need to write. But it does show I mean,[br]one of the problems with video and we and
0:48:39.869,0:48:44.104
we will reflect on this is that on the one[br]hand, while you could put a face to
0:48:44.104,0:48:48.980
hacking, which is great. It's like it's[br]not the hooded person video has its own
0:48:48.980,0:48:54.308
limits. Right? Often it's an individual.[br]It's often what journalists are interested
0:48:54.308,0:48:59.113
in. And we also have to make sure that[br]this isn't the whole of hacking and also
0:48:59.113,0:49:05.194
at times use the video to tell a different[br]story than what the video is showing. So I
0:49:05.194,0:49:08.632
think that's a great comment. And we're[br]going to keep that in mind because to me,
0:49:08.632,0:49:13.026
the collectivist community, part of[br]hacking. Is one of the most amazing parts
0:49:13.026,0:49:16.315
that never makes it into kind of[br]mainstream representation.
0:49:16.315,0:49:18.591
Paula: That's right. Thank you.[br]Herald: Thank you.
0:49:18.591,0:49:21.458
Herald: Then we have a question from the
0:49:21.458,0:49:29.491
Internet. First Internet.[br]Biella: Internet. Tell us. Talk to us.
0:49:29.491,0:49:35.746
Signal Angel: That question from the Internet is:[br]when covering international scenes, scenes
0:49:35.746,0:49:42.125
like Phrack magazine use as source material.[br]Biella: Is Phrack magazine a source?
0:49:42.125,0:49:45.105
Signal Angel: Yeah.[br]Biella: Yeah. I mean, Phrack magazine.
0:49:45.105,0:49:52.341
Remember the video that I showed around[br]the fake French CCC? That is a larger
0:49:52.341,0:49:59.292
project around how parts of the[br]underground went pro and started doing
0:49:59.292,0:50:06.196
security work. And Phrack is amazing. I[br]mean, Phrack tells so much of that story.
0:50:06.196,0:50:10.495
And what is also so interesting, because[br]I've done like almost 26 interviews, in-
0:50:10.495,0:50:15.752
depth interviews around on this. And like[br]you'd expect in many hacker circles,
0:50:15.752,0:50:20.514
there's a lot of diversity of opinions.[br]And the one thing that people agree on was
0:50:20.514,0:50:25.349
that like Phrack was awesome, technically.[br]And it brought very different types of
0:50:25.349,0:50:32.171
people together. You know, Phrack hasn't[br]come up in the video because it's one of
0:50:32.171,0:50:37.487
these things that hasn't been documented.[br]Right? So much in documentaries or film.
0:50:37.487,0:50:41.158
And again, it points to that problem,[br]which is on the one hand, we're trying to
0:50:41.158,0:50:45.888
show the faces of hacking. But we also[br]have to make very, very clear, that
0:50:45.888,0:50:50.816
there's certain parts of hacker history[br]that don't exist in video and don't take
0:50:50.816,0:50:56.683
this as the definitive sort of word or[br]record.
0:50:56.683,0:50:59.682
Herald: Now the question from microphone[br]2, please.
0:50:59.682,0:51:06.119
Mic2: Hi, I'm... I was wondering,[br]whether you plan to expand your
0:51:06.119,0:51:15.106
categories. If I didn't miss anything[br]to something for example as in my PhD.
0:51:15.106,0:51:21.581
Examples of hacking connected with biology,[br]genetics and digital fabrication,
0:51:21.581,0:51:23.716
neuro-hacking and so on.[br]Biella: Ja.
0:51:23.716,0:51:30.873
Mic2.: So here that the CCC does a track[br]dedicated to science that I think it's
0:51:30.873,0:51:35.343
somehow related. Thanks.[br]Biella: Great. Yeah. So if I can come
0:51:35.343,0:51:40.945
correctly, I think we have 11 categories[br]and we absolutely are expanding and like
0:51:40.945,0:51:45.209
bio hacking is one that we want include[br]because actually, you know, hackers are
0:51:45.209,0:51:49.767
like creating insulin in the context of[br]the United States, where insulin is
0:51:49.767,0:51:54.607
ridiculously expensive, like some of the[br]most important hacking I think is
0:51:54.607,0:52:00.291
happening. So we're absolutely going to[br]expand by a handful. We also don't want to
0:52:00.291,0:52:07.341
go much more beyond 15 or 18. And one of[br]the ways that we're also then handling
0:52:07.341,0:52:14.114
that is that each entry comes with tags[br]and then there's gonna be other groupings
0:52:14.114,0:52:20.697
around tags. But it's certainly I mean,[br]what you've seen is alive. It's alive, it's
0:52:20.697,0:52:25.223
alive, but it's also very much beta, you[br]know.
0:52:25.223,0:52:29.114
Paula: And it and if you've written also[br]on this topic and you have an interesting
0:52:29.114,0:52:33.970
video, please email us, send it over. We'd[br]be really interested to hear about your
0:52:33.970,0:52:38.705
research. Yeah. Yeah.[br]Herald: And then we have another question
0:52:38.705,0:52:40.955
on mic 1, please.[br]Mic1: Thank you. Thank you.
0:52:40.955,0:52:47.085
My question is for Biella.[br]And it's about would you say that your
0:52:47.085,0:52:55.361
work be done on Anonymous affected the way[br]you engage with working with video
0:52:55.361,0:53:03.689
after going deep into seeing, how[br]Anonymous uses video as a medium to engage
0:53:03.689,0:53:07.417
with the public as compared to other[br]activist groups who are way less
0:53:07.417,0:53:10.549
successful in that?[br]Biella: That's great. I mean, that is
0:53:10.549,0:53:15.838
definitely, you know, I on the one hand[br]always use video in my class. And it's not
0:53:15.838,0:53:20.010
just like hackers. You know, if I'm[br]talking about Martin Luther King and
0:53:20.010,0:53:26.819
something he said, I will show a video of[br]what he said. Because having me repeat it
0:53:26.819,0:53:32.661
versus having MLK on the screen it's a lot[br]more persuasive. And we are in a moment
0:53:32.661,0:53:37.045
where truth is not winning the game and we[br]have to think about our game of
0:53:37.045,0:53:41.142
persuasion. Right? That's just this is a[br]kind of side project. But you're
0:53:41.142,0:53:46.154
absolutely right. It was also Anonymous[br]who used so many videos. Right. In a
0:53:46.154,0:53:50.510
period where, sure, others had to use[br]videos. But it was groups like, for
0:53:50.510,0:53:57.325
example, Indymedia who's turned 20 this[br]year, who took videos of the world around
0:53:57.325,0:54:02.524
us, whereas Anonymous created videos as a[br]means for persuasion. And it was very
0:54:02.524,0:54:08.526
powerful at the time. And I am... I am[br]inspired to think about how can we think
0:54:08.526,0:54:15.762
about persuasive mediums in all contexts[br]in order to get our message out. Because
0:54:15.762,0:54:21.937
again, we're not always winning in this[br]regard. Truth can never speak on its own,
0:54:21.937,0:54:28.733
right? And we always need adjuncts and[br]adjuvants in order to get truth's message
0:54:28.733,0:54:33.294
out there. And certainly it was Anonymous[br]in part that that helped me see the
0:54:33.294,0:54:40.001
importance of video and in a new way. So[br]I'm really glad you mentioned that.
0:54:40.001,0:54:44.435
Herald: Thank you. And then we have[br]another question from the Internet.
0:54:44.435,0:54:48.311
Signal-engel: Yeah, and the next question[br]from the Internet is: how will you select
0:54:48.311,0:54:53.514
the right curators for the entries[br]and how do they decide how they are
0:54:53.514,0:54:58.851
presented and contextualized?[br]Biella: All right. So, I mean, I've been
0:54:58.851,0:55:05.350
working on hacker cultures for since 1998.[br]Paula: Mine is a journey has been a
0:55:05.350,0:55:08.703
little bit shorter, but also for about 10[br]years or so.
0:55:08.703,0:55:14.396
Biella: Yeah. And so I do, I know a lot of[br]people working on different topics. And
0:55:14.396,0:55:20.281
for the first round, we invited people.[br]And it wasn't just academics. I have
0:55:20.281,0:55:24.270
gotten journalists and hackers are writing[br]some entries as well. But they're just
0:55:24.270,0:55:28.885
like a little bit harder to kind of get[br]them to turn in their entries. But
0:55:28.885,0:55:33.221
hopefully they will, because, again, it's[br]it's not just who's been credentialed to
0:55:33.221,0:55:39.864
talk about a topic. It's who knows about a[br]topic, who has something to say and who's
0:55:39.864,0:55:45.037
willing to go through the editing process.[br]Because while journalists generally don't
0:55:45.037,0:55:48.813
have to go through multiple edits because[br]you all just really know how to write for
0:55:48.813,0:55:55.084
the public, everyone else actually does[br]struggle a little bit. And we do really
0:55:55.084,0:56:00.119
try to get the entries written in such a[br]way where we're presuming, you know,
0:56:00.119,0:56:06.370
nothing about hackers or the video. It's[br]not always easy, then, to write an entry,
0:56:06.370,0:56:12.045
that kind of starts from that that low[br]level. And then in terms of the
0:56:12.045,0:56:19.431
contextualization, that's where we have[br]three editors and curators. And I would
0:56:19.431,0:56:26.010
actually even say four because our final[br]editor, Matt Gorson. He was an M.A.
0:56:26.010,0:56:30.554
student under me. He's doing a big project[br]on security, hacking with me at data and
0:56:30.554,0:56:35.760
society. He knows a ton. And it's[br]precisely having many eyeballs on one
0:56:35.760,0:56:43.047
entry that allows us to hopefully[br]contextualize it properly. But, you know,
0:56:43.047,0:56:47.816
again, if something seems off, people[br]should email us. And again, we're also
0:56:47.816,0:56:53.271
open to responses from the community as[br]well, which we have one response from
0:56:53.271,0:56:58.305
Naomi. But, you know, perhaps that will[br]kind of grow into something larger.
0:56:58.305,0:57:02.528
Paula: So when you ask why or why is it us[br]that are curating, who's curating, really,
0:57:02.528,0:57:07.161
it's just the three of us that are doing[br]this. And what kind of speech position are
0:57:07.161,0:57:10.398
we coming from? I mean, we're[br]anthropologists of hacker cultures. What
0:57:10.398,0:57:14.706
does that mean? May for you guys, it[br]doesn't mean much or it means a lot. Or
0:57:14.706,0:57:18.607
it's really we've studied you guys for a[br]long time.
0:57:18.607,0:57:22.993
Biella: Yes. But it's it's also cool[br]because it's like, well, except for Paula.
0:57:22.993,0:57:29.213
I mean, Chris and I like we have tenure[br]and that may mean nothing to you all. But,
0:57:29.213,0:57:34.937
you know, hackers care about freedom and[br]free speech and tenure allows you to be
0:57:34.937,0:57:36.956
free.[br]Puala: I have tenure now.
0:57:36.956,0:57:41.247
Biella: Oh, you do? Sweet. We all are free[br]to kind of do what we want in interesting
0:57:41.247,0:57:45.642
ways. And again, we're trying to[br]experiment with mediums that go a little
0:57:45.642,0:57:50.402
bit beyond the academic journal, which I'm[br]totally behind. I think there's really
0:57:50.402,0:57:53.165
good things about the academic journal. I[br]think there's really good things about the
0:57:53.165,0:58:00.216
book. But we have the freedom to[br]experiment with new mediums. And so
0:58:00.216,0:58:04.688
hopefully this this new medium will kind[br]of reach different types of publics in a
0:58:04.688,0:58:12.429
way that kind of academic journal articles[br]will never reach.
0:58:12.429,0:58:17.909
Herald: Are there any more questions?[br]Paula: Party. Party.
0:58:17.909,0:58:21.475
Herald: It doesn't look like it. So I[br]would like to invite you for another round
0:58:21.475,0:58:22.664
of applause for Biella and Paula.
0:58:22.664,0:58:23.523
Applause
0:58:23.523,0:58:26.075
Biella und Paula: Thank you guys, thank [br]you so much.
0:58:26.075,0:58:34.648
36C3 Postroll music
0:58:34.648,0:58:44.259
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