Welcome to this video! I'm so excited to talk about church here.
I have Justin, I have Brook, and we have little Zion with us,
the youngest of four kids.
And we want to talk about church.
I have just come out with a new book called "The Call of Jesus"
and I'm just excited about it. And I really believe it's time to see a new movement,
when it comes to seeing new, organic, powerful house fellowships start.
We will hear their story, what they have seen.
I want to say that, many years ago, when I got introduced to the house church,
organic church, simple church, it has many names.
I was a part of a network of Simple church in Europe, before we came to America.
There were many, many things that were good,
but when I took a turn around, much of this,
I felt there was something that was missing
and some of the things I saw, in some of those circles,
we talk so much about the importance of having an organic structure.
And I believe in that.
But, we didn't talk so much about the wine you put into the wineskins.
You can have a good wineskin, but if you put a wrong wine in it,
it doesn't change anything.
And what I really see now, I hope it will be clear in my new book,
it's really first and foremost about the life.
It's about the gospel, it's about discipleship, it's about setting people truly free,
healing the sick, casting out demons and all of that,
but when that is correct, if you then put it in the old system,
you will break it.
But if you put it in the good structure, you will multiply it.
And this is what we want to talk about here. I hope you are ready.
You have an amazing story. You experienced God.
You have been on a mission trip in Africa and Nepal. You've been all over.
But 18 months ago you really started with house fellowships.
The focus was not house fellowships. The focus was: let's make disciples.
Can you say what brought you there and then a little what have happened?
We noticed that there was lack in people, in the body of Christ, actually, obeying Jesus.
That it was very knowledge based. So we took it, kind of upon ourselves.
We felt the Lord was asking us to bring people in our home for discipleship,
which later ended up forming into actual churches,
which is great because the command is to make disciples.
So, when we brought people in we realized that there was a lack
in a lot of just a foundations of the faith.
Not only people didn't understand how to share their own faith,
they had not experienced parts of the gospel themselves.
And so, one of the most important things, that I think,
is needs to be discussed, it needs to be brought up,
whether you're speaking with individual or a group, a community of faith,
is the gospel itself.
To make sure that everybody has fully walked through repentance towards God,
that they have received the Holy Spirit,
that they've cut off the old life through water baptism, all those things,
and once they've experienced those things, they become stable,
then you can begin to equip and train to go out in ministry.
- So, you, actually, met with church people? - Yes.
And you saw church people got what they were lacking.
It could be repentance, for some people it could be true baptism, lay down the old life,
it could be the Holy Spirit, or they walked with unforgiveness and hurt in their lives
and they need to put it off and they need deliverance.
And then you started to see people get set free. Is that correct?
That's right.
And you started to meet and it just started to grow?
Yeah, absolutely.
We started meeting with individuals. Once they would get that foundation laid
and naturally the thing that takes place after that is
they start to want to share with other people.
And we encouraged that.
Like, now you freely have been given, so freely go give out what you've been given.
You can't keep it for yourself.
So, we would teach and equip on the things of practical ways
you can go and share what just took place in your life,
and help them understand the gospel and help them feel comfortable
on how to share that with people, so it starts with family members
and friends, and things like that. in the matter of weeks we were seeing
multiplication take place. And so that person in this original group
that we started with, we would say: Now it's your turn to take those people
into your home. Don't bring them back here, so where we can become a big church
in a matter of weeks. Take them into their home or into your home,
lay the foundation of the gospel, make sure they're born again properly,
and then you start to lead them. All you have to do is be slightly farther
than the person that you're discipling.
And if you don't know the question they have, you have others who do.
So you come to them and you ask questions.
The last 18 years you have started nine fellowships and it's growing...
18 months.
18 months, sorry. So, in 18 months nine fellowships and it's growing.
One thing that really needs to be there, is what we read in the Bible,
the early disciples were forbidden to tell about Jesus,
but they said: We cannot stop telling about what we've seen and heard.
The woman at the well, she ran down and told everyone in Samaria:
Hey, I met a guy who told me everything, who I am.
And there was excitement when people really experienced that true life.
And that needs to be the foundation. That is the wine - that true life.
And if you study the house church movement in China,
I know that 90% of all of those, when they started, many years ago,
they were like evangelists, because they could not stop telling about it.
So, it's not like: Hey, now we take church people and we need to just
whip them and say: You have to tell about Jesus.
No, we take church people, we get them soundly saved and born again
and excited about the life, and then the growth, somehow, happens automatically.
So, how did the growth start to happen?
Is it from person to person, relationships?
Yes. Many times through relationships,
but the thing I want to speak about also is that...
In all of the excitement in the beginning, when people were being set free,
in the fellowship church people being set free, filled with the Holy Spirit,
delivered, all those things, it's very exciting,
but once everybody is stable, if you don't share this message
with your community, if you don't continue to see the power of God work through,
becomes very boring, because your eyes begin to turn towards yourself.
And what we've noticed is that, they had a certain period of time after some months,
where everybody was stable, where we had to make sure that
when we came together, our focus was on Jesus Christ.
And when our focus was on Jesus Christ being in our meetings,
He would remind us of the mission. And that mission is not church.
Right? The church, actually, has a mission.
So, the whole goal is not for us to just get together.
It's to get together so we can encourage, edify and equip each other
in the presence of Christ and go out and share the gospel with the world.
In the introduction in my book "The Call of Jesus" I talk about three things;
I talk about the church, the mission and Christ.
That very often we start with the church, and our system, and our culture,
and traditions of men, and out of that church building,
with everything that comes with it, we think: Oh, we ought to do mission,
and in the middle of mission... because it's in the box now,
we forget Christ.
But if we turn upside down, and we start with Christ...
you can never look at Christ and say: Oh, I have seen it all.
There is always excitement. There is always something new.
And then it's about Him and obeying Him and following Him,
and then we do mission, not in our way, but in His way,
and we will automatically end up with church.
And also what you said, it was not like...
Jesus has not said: Go out, do church. And maybe disciple those people.
He said: Go out, make disciples, and I will build my church.
It was your focus in the beginning. It was just like, how do we disciple people,
how do we build people up, and you saw how Jesus was building
them as living stones together. - That's right.
How did it look like? Can you come with an example how one person
knew somebody, and knew somebody, and how it forms?
We had a time where we started with this group of five couples
and we were meeting together, and we made sure they were born again,
and like you said: Christ was the forefront, your relationship with Him,
and now you have a mission to go out into the world and to make disciples of yourself
and then the church faith formed, so once we had those three revelations,
it just naturally took place. So, for instance, we had one couple
who started to share with their parents. And their parents were like:
Okay, we want to know more. So they had us come over.
And we shared with their parents what was going on, and eventually,
their parents got delivered and born again. And now in that group of people
those parents are meeting with their children and they are now multiplying
and that person there were two parents, they are in traditional church right now,
she's actually has a paid position in the church and she's stepping down,
and she's actually taught sharing her faith with her neighbor
and other people in the church, and they're like: Tell me more.
And they're becoming interested. And out of that a natural family is birthed,
in that place. So, that's hoped to happen over and over again.
One family, we went into their home, we started ministering and talking
to them about what is church. Like, church is not a building,
it's not an event. You are the church. So, why do you go to church
and do these rituals and these traditions that nullify the Word of God?
You have to, actually, take what you're learning in the Scriptures
and give it to other people's lives. And they're like: We have seven couples
that I know would wanna do this. And I said: Meet with them,
break bread with them, take communion with them,
speak about holiness, speak about the gospel and see what will happen.
So, they brought them in and started relationship with these couples.
And then they asked us to come in and lay a foundation of the gospel, so we did.
And some of these people were like deacons in churches.
And they are repenting for the first time in their lives.
They're being baptized. They're getting delivered.
And right there you have a group of 20 people meeting together,
all set free, all filled with the Holy Spirit, of one truth, and now they are multiplying.
That group, there's two couples in there that are ready to make disciples
and they are staring their own groups that we have nothing to do with.
Because we don't know those people. Those people aren't gonna listen to us.
They don't know who we are. So the people that are leading that group
are gonna help these disciples start their own fellowship.
And that's how it naturally multiplies and it starts slow in the beginning,
because of small in number, but when multiplication gets bigger in number,
it's a mass number, that comes to know Christ.
And these aren't just half-hearted disciples.
They are fully sold out surrendered people who are ready
to take the Great Commission to the ends of the earth.
And it starts in one place. So, it's exciting.
You said so many amazing things here. I want to say, it started here, with...
- Obedience with two people. - Two people.
Those two people had something you don't have.
They had a relationship. They had a circle of people around them.
But you had something those two people did not have.
You have the know-how and knowledge.
And that became a beautiful contact point, where they had the relationship,
you have the knowledge, and you come together, and you go in,
and you impact their network. Their network get influenced
and they get discipled at the same time, because they see how you're doing,
and then they have a network. And it's spreading from this.
I talk about that in my book.
I believe we are called to go out and find a person of peace. Jesus said that.
But He also said: When you find a person of peace, stay in their house.
- Don't move from house to house. - That's right.
Because when we come into a household, oikos or network,
we want to impact everyone in that network.
I believe in going out on the street, but if you already have people
you are working with in your network, don't leave them and go out
to try to build new relationships, when you have people there.
Because out on the street it can be difficult,
because there is that skepticism and you first need to build that relationship.
- And it's not natural. - No. - Relationship is natural.
So, I would say, work with what you have, work with what you have,
but if you suddenly come to a stop and there is no more to build
within that relationship, then you need to go out and build new relationships.
But when you have relationship, work with relationship,
from person to person, from person to person.
And Jesus even says, like, look up, the harvest is plentiful,
but the laborers are few. So, find the laborer.
Where you're gonna find them? In the harvest.
So you find that laborer, in the harvest, you give them everything you have,
and that person will reap of the harvest of 30,
and the next will reap the harvest of 60, and of 100,
and it all goes to credit back to where it started,
but no one knows where it started from.
But that's the beauty of multiplication. And that's what Jesus would do.
If you just partner with what He's already spoken and commanded,
He'll breathe life onto that
and that will become a movement.
But if we sit here, like: What is my call? What am I called to do?
Okay, I got this special call. God, come bless this call on my life,
that I came up with, He won't bless that.
Bless, get a partnership and get doing what He already blessed.
And He said: Go make disciples. You build the people, He'll build the church.
It's as simple as that.
Keep it simple in that way, like you said; the gospel, the gospel every time.
The gospel. And then, what you said also, it was good, go, meet with them,
break the bread, communion, break the bread.
Have fellowship where you come together, you eat together.
There is something in connecting people. Jesus said: When you go to a house,
eat and drink what they serve. But not only eating and drinking.
It's also a point where you really focus on God and the mission,
why are we here, and then you start to minister.
And you can do that. It went from...
How do you do it, because sometimes you get many relationships, at one time,
but very often is also just one relationship, and one relationship,
and one relationship, and then you end up with many.
How did you see this go?
Lot of times that'll be with one person or one couple,
and we'll continue to meet with them one on one, or as a couple,
figuring out where they're at, helping them to get on their feet,
giving them tools necessary to get their foundations.
But a lot of times, while we're doing that, God will have another couple here,
and another person here, and here, and then every single time
He will bring them together. Sometimes there'll be relationships
we didn't even know they knew each other three years ago.
So, when God brings this group together, like, we're discipling,
and then He build, and He does it, and He places it together.
I pray every single day Lord of the harvest, at 10:02, Lord of the harvest,
sent forth laborers, and that prayer is answered because He sends people,
we disciple them, point them to Jesus, teach them how to obey,
and He brings them together.
And all we have to do is say: Yeah, okay.
And the beauty of when you bring them together, you stir one another up to
a good work. Because if you come together just to eat bread,
you don't go out want to save the world. But we have one girl in our fellowship,
we did two nights ago, she said: When I leave here,
I am ready to take on the world, because I know I'm capable,
because I've been poured into, I've been edified, I've been stirred up,
and now I need to go out make a disciple on my life.
And my eyes are open: Who is ready? Who is hungry?
And that person then reproduces in someone else's life.
If you have a group of 100 people in a traditional church and you said:
How many here want to be a pastor in a megachurch? Up with your hands.
Work, administration, money, responsibilities, stress.
95% of all pastors are getting stressful. Who wants that job?
But if you then say: Who can find one person and lead that one person to Christ?
I also say it very clear in the book. You already know them, very often.
When you say to people: You already know them.
They are in your atmosphere. They are in your network right now.
Ask God: Who is it?
Sometimes it's a total sinner. Sometimes is a believer who needs repentance.
Sometimes is a repentant person who needs baptism.
Sometimes is baptized person who needs the Holy Spirit.
And when you give them the missing piece,
it's spreading and life is growing.
The question will always be, and I think that is the challenge
and we need to keep it simple, but many people always want to know in details
like, how do you do it? Our focus is not so much how we do it.
Our focus is not the details. Our focus is the person...
and how do you bring that person to life.
- That's right. To maturity. - Yeah, To maturity.
Say a little more about how does your life look like.
How does your week look like? How does it look like practically?
And also, when you come together and meet? How does it look like?
The number one thing, for us, personally, is that we like to teach people.
When you come together as a community of faith,
the main difference in the traditional setting of church
and the meetings in the homes is, as Paul teaches the Corinthians
and instructs them: everybody has something to bring.
So, in that case, if you're not prepared with your intimate relationship
with Christ throughout the week, then you have nothing to bring to our group,
and then we all lack because the piece of the puzzle is missing.
And so, for us, cultivating an intimate relationship with Christ throughout the week,
we have four children, we homeschool due all these things,
but we also have to learn how to be in constant community with the Lord,
listening to Him, praying throughout the day.
I need to say something, because we talked about that.
What is important, when we talk about everyone has something to share,
is in the context of believers now.
Because the problem is church has been a place where many non-believers come
and if you let everyone share where they don't have the Spirit...
It can go like that. So, when we talk about church,
God spoke very clear to you about the wolf and the sheep.
Can you share that also?
We had just come back from Norway. I was very sleep deprived.
My good girlfriend calls me and says: I'm having my baby nine weeks early.
So, I go to the hospital, jet-legged, but sometimes when you're very depleted,
you're very sensitive to the Spirit. I hadn't eaten a few days,
I hadn't slept in a few days, and I'm walking to the hospital,
and I literally heard in my Spirit: the wolves were never meant to be
invited amongst the sheep. And I'm like: Lord, if this is You.
I need You to tell me what this means.
And about a day later, we're in the same town, he's staying in a hotel
a couple miles away, while I'm helping my friend in the hospital,
and He said: what do you think about non-believers being invited into the church?
And I said: That's what that meant?
And so I start to dig through the Scriptures and like:
What does it look like, Lord? What, first of all, is church?
And why are wolves are not supposed to be in the midst of it?
And He said, He started took me to the 1 Corinthians,
where he talks about the unbelievers stumbling into the congregation.
And instead of, like, speak in tongues and prophesy,
in hopes that man's heart would be exposed,
that he'll repent and turn towards the Lord, and I said: It said - stumble in,
not - invited in. And then I looked at other scriptures that talk about
the church is for the believer to come in and to be built up,
to be stirred up, to be equipped to go out into the work of the ministry,
they share the gospel, they evangelize,
and when that person receives the Spirit, okay, it's safe to bring them in
and then equip them, and to edify them, and to stir them up, and teach them
how to go out and do the same, because if you invite all these different spirits in,
you've got a bunch of different spirits entertaining each other,
that are not of Christ. And people get confused of what is truly the Holy Spirit
and what is not.
What we want to see, what we really believe in,
church is for believers come together, edifying each other.
And there is so important to be edified, that you need to learn
that everyone has something to give.
And you grow up and you build each other,
and the way you grow mostly is by giving and doing.
And then you grow up.
If a non-believer... Let's say there is somebody who invites a few people in,
it's fine, but then don't do what you normally do.
Sit down with them. Share the gospel. Say: hey, we have two people,
John brought two friends with him today.
Hey, come in. Hey, hi! This is who we are. This is what we are doing.
One day I came to a park, and a mom was there, and the Lord said:
You're gonna talk to her. So, I go to her. I started talking.
I said: Who are you? Who do you do? She said: We've just moved here from
Delaware, because the Lord wants us to start house churches,
or to be involved in one. And I'm like: This is too easy.
She said: What do you and your husband do? I said: Well, we start house churches.
And I said: We actually have one tonight. You should come. So they came.
And we set them down, we broke bread together, we took community together,
we sat down. We said: Now, tell us your story.
And the whole fellowship's there.
And they shared their story. I was 13, I got baptized when I was 14,
and I'm just kind of lived cool life. I've helped in the church a little bit
here and there, my husband was a youth pastor for a couple of years.
Now he is a construction worker.
I'm like: Did you ever received the Holy Spirit?
And they're like: What are you talking about?
And I said: Let us share our stories. So, my mom shared her story.
She was in that fellowship.
You break the program and you focus on them, where they are.
We share our story and then we get into the Book of Acts 18 and 19,
where people had been repented, but never received the Spirit.
And after that, they're like: We have a lot to think about.
I said: Absolutely. They're like: Can we read this first
and come back, and partake in what you're talking about?
We said: Absolutely.
So, they did not receive the Spirit that night, but they know
that they're lacking the Spirit. And that they can't be for it
until they received the Spirit of God.
So, when they come back, that'll be the next question: Are you ready?
It's for us to lay hand on you, for you to receive the Spirit.
What I often do if we go to small setting, I'm praying, God what do You want us to share?
But then, when you come there and you see the people, sometimes you see,
okay, it's something else today. Because those people came in.
Today it's just us. Let's break the bread. Let's do what we do.
Because we are now together to equip each other.
Now you have seen many fellowships start, so your life is like
going from fellowship to fellowship and help,
and some of them is now breaking more off,
because they have grown to maturity. Can you tell a little how does it look?
When we go in, our goal is not to make them dependent on us.
It's, actually, give them equipping and everything we can possibly do
to serve them, so they can get to a place to where they are completely
dependent on Christ, the Holy Spirit and each other.
And once they do that, then we want to back off.
It's just like a relationship with your children or parents and children.
Right? Eventually, you don't want them to be dependent on you.
They need to be creating and starting their own families. Same thing.
That could take three months with a group, six months.
It came take over a year with a group. It's different for every group.
So weekly we go in, Sunday to Sunday,
we meet with about five groups right now.
There's two groups that are becoming very mature
and so we only meet like once a week. Once a month, twice a month, right now.
And so, eventually, they're actually doing their own thing
and they're actually obeying Christ on the weekly basis,
on the daily basis, living in holiness,
and they're multiplying on their own.
So, weekly that's what we do.
Somebody asked us the other week, like, do you get exhausted with what you do?
I said: We've cut out everything in our lives
that have nothing to do with the Kingdom of God.
So, all that we have left in this life is to pursue the Kingdom,
to seek first the Kingdom of God and everything will be added to us.
So, our finances are added to us,
our endurance is added to us, our strength is added to us.
and the ability to actually do something that is bearing fruit,
not just in this life, but in the life to come.
I don't want to go empty handed, you know.
So, that's kind of what this life has looked like.
It has Jesus provides, because we no longer can work, because we're so busy
advancing the Kingdom. But He's provided the home,
He's provided vehicles, He's provided sum of income for us to live off of,
not so that we can become wealthy and seek the things of this world.
This is the last thing I want. I'm detached from that stuff.
But that I can still live, and there's tools and resources
to advance the Kingdom of God.
When we look at Luke 10, where Jesus said:
Don't take extra purse with you, laborer is worth his wages, all of that,
you can testify that also? - That's right.
And you actually don't need to have a website and a ministry, all of that.
But the resources are often in the harvest.
When we start to lead people to Christ and start to see people build up,
there is provision, there are resources, there is what we need.
And also, what they say, I think it's important,
I talk much about church as a family,
now he is a young boy, you have four smaller kids,
I have kids who are now 15 and 18. And I have grandkids.
If we look all the levels, there are times where there's more work.
There are times, of course, when you don't get so much sleep in the night.
But, the whole reason we're getting kids is not for them to remain like that.
It's to build them up. And then there is time where you have more fun with them,
when you have fun with them and do funny things,
and they are independent. That can actually be of help.
Like your son is already helping with him.
And then there is time where I'm in, where they are really independent, in many ways,
and you need to let go. And it was hard with our son,
because I want to be with my son, but I just know that
for him to be independent from me I need to let go.
And the Bible says, we know it's not good for man to be alone.
He needs to leave his mom and dad, but I can turn around,
it's not good to be with mom and dad for the rest of your life.
So, there is that letting go, and now our son has his kids,
and I love our grandkids. I miss them and it's so fun.
I'm in the funny place with my grandkids, oh, they are so cute,
like him, and so on, but then... (smelling a poop)... oh...
And then they care of it.
And I think, as it is in the natural, we see it in the spiritual.
In the natural there is a period of 18 years and they move from home.
In the spiritual, I think, it depends on people,
it depends on the background, if people come from very destroyed background
there is something, they need, of course, deliverance, can happen,
but renewing the mind and building up, it takes longer time,
or they come from another background. But you say like a half year, a year,
and then they are ready to move on.
Oh yeah. If you're going too long, there is no reproduction.
We would have to trust them. This is the same as you...
If your children were 16 years old, still living in your basement,
you would address that, because it's not what's naturally supposed to take place.
If you have an apple tree out there and it hasn't bore fruit one year
or two years, you start to prune it down, you have to work with it,
something is wrong, if it doesn't continue bearing fruit, or starts to bear fruit,
cut it down and plant a new one.
That's right.
That is biblical.
It's so beautiful to hear what God is doing. I want to say that this is for everyone.
This is the call of Jesus. This is what He has called us to,
is what He has called you to.
If you are a disciple of Christ, to be a disciple is to deny ourselves,
take up the cross and follow Him.
It's to repent, get baptized, receive the Holy Spirit
and being taught to obey everything He has commanded us.
And everything is everything. And this is what we see here.
And I really want to encourage you to go for this and live this life.
Thank you so much for sharing. We have other videos
where we are talking more in details about...
how God is the provider, we are talking more in details about
why the gospel is important, we are talking more in details
about some of the things you've been sharing
and I also have in my book.
So, see the other videos. Read the book
and start to obey Jesus in His call.
God bless you!