[Script Info]
Title: 
[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:10.17,0:00:43.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}Applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:00:43.60,0:00:47.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Frank Rieger: So, that was your applause, Glenn.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:47.57,0:00:52.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Welcome for the keynote for the 30th Communication Congress in Hamburg.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:52.47,0:00:54.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The floor is yours.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.83,0:00:56.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Glenn Greenwald: Thank you,\Nthank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:56.98,0:01:02.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And thank you to everybody for that warm welcome and thank you as well to the congress organizers
Dialogue: 0,0:01:02.69,0:01:05.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for inviting me to speak.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:05.54,0:01:09.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,My reaction when I learned that I had been asked to deliver the keynote to this conference
Dialogue: 0,0:01:09.85,0:01:13.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was probably similar to the one that some of you had, which was:
Dialogue: 0,0:01:13.73,0:01:19.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Wait, what?" {\i1}laughter from audience{\i0} And, you know
Dialogue: 0,0:01:19.38,0:01:27.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the reason is that my cryptographic and hacker skills are not exactly world renowned.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.65,0:01:33.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The story has been told many times,\Nhow I almost lost
Dialogue: 0,0:01:33.22,0:01:38.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the biggest national security story\Nin the last decade, at least
Dialogue: 0,0:01:38.33,0:01:47.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I found the installation of PGP to be insurmountably annoying and difficult. -
Dialogue: 0,0:01:47.20,0:01:55.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause, Greenwald laughs{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.88,0:01:59.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there is another story that's very similar\Nthat illustrates the same point
Dialogue: 0,0:01:59.78,0:02:02.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I actually don't think has been told before,\Nwhich is:
Dialogue: 0,0:02:02.41,0:02:08.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Prior to my going to Hong Kong I spent many hours with both Laura Poitras and Edward Snowden
Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.11,0:02:15.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to get up to speed on the basics of security technology that I would need in order to report on this story,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:15.31,0:02:21.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they tried to tutor me in all sorts of programs and finally concluded that the only one
Dialogue: 0,0:02:21.12,0:02:25.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at least at that time, for that moment, that I could handle was TrueCrypt.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:25.19,0:02:30.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they taught me the basics of TrueCrypt and I went to Hong Kong and
Dialogue: 0,0:02:30.65,0:02:34.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before I would go to sleep at night, I would play around with TrueCrypt
Dialogue: 0,0:02:34.12,0:02:42.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I kind of taught myself a couple of functions that they hadn't even taught me and really had all this sort of confidence
Dialogue: 0,0:02:42.38,0:02:45.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and on the third or fourth day I went over to meet both of them and
Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.79,0:02:51.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was beaming with pride and I showed them all the new things that I had taught myself how to do on TrueCrypt
Dialogue: 0,0:02:51.72,0:02:56.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I pronounced myself this "cryptographic master" that I was really becoming advanced,
Dialogue: 0,0:02:56.85,0:03:03.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I looked at both of them and I didn't see any return pride coming my way.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:03.72,0:03:10.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Actually what I saw was them trying very hard to avoid rolling their eyes out of their head at me to one another.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:10.79,0:03:16.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I said: "Why are you reacting that way? Why isn't that a great accomplishment?"
Dialogue: 0,0:03:16.94,0:03:23.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they sort of let some moments go by and no-one wanted to break it to me and finally Snowden piped in and said:
Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.42,0:03:29.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"TrueCrypt is really meant for your little kid brother to be able to master, it's not all that impressive."
Dialogue: 0,0:03:29.88,0:03:36.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And {\i1}chuckles{\i0} I remember being very deflated and kind of going back to the drawing board.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.17,0:03:38.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well... You know, that was six months ago.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:38.85,0:03:47.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in the interim, the importance of security technology and privacy technology has become
Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.41,0:03:51.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,really central to everything it is that I do.\NI really have learned
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.65,0:03:55.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an enormous amount about both its importance\Nand how it functions.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:55.41,0:04:00.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm far from the only one. I think one of the most significant outcomes of the last six months,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:00.99,0:04:07.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but one of the most underdiscussed, is how many people now appreciate
Dialogue: 0,0:04:07.85,0:04:13.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the importance of protecting the security of their communications.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:13.77,0:04:17.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you go and look at my inbox from July,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.39,0:04:23.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,probably three to five percent of the emails I received were composed of PGP code.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.63,0:04:29.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That percentage is definitely above 50 percent today\Nand probably well above 50 percent.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:29.79,0:04:35.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we talked about forming our new media company, we barely spent any time on the question,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:35.78,0:04:40.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was simply assumed that we were all going to use the most sophisticated encryption that was available
Dialogue: 0,0:04:40.81,0:04:46.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to communicate with one another, and I think most encouragingly, whenever I'm contacted
Dialogue: 0,0:04:46.24,0:04:51.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by anyone in journalism or activism\Nor any related fields,
Dialogue: 0,0:04:51.79,0:04:59.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they either use encryption or are embarrassed and ashamed that they don't, and apologize to me for the fact that they don't
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.29,0:05:05.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and vow that they're soon going to. And it's really a remarkable sea-change even from the middle\Nof last year
Dialogue: 0,0:05:05.16,0:05:08.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when I would talk to some of the leading national security journalists in the world
Dialogue: 0,0:05:08.87,0:05:11.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who were working on some of the most sensitive information
Dialogue: 0,0:05:11.11,0:05:15.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and virtually none of them even knew what PGP or OTR, or any other
Dialogue: 0,0:05:15.38,0:05:20.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the leading privacy technologies were, let alone how to use them.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.88,0:05:27.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's really encouraging to see this technology spreading so pervasively. And I think that this
Dialogue: 0,0:05:27.91,0:05:34.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,underscores an extremely important point and one that gives me great cause for optimism.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.26,0:05:41.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm often asked whether I think that the stories that we've been learning over the last six months, and the reporting
Dialogue: 0,0:05:41.62,0:05:44.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the debates that have arisen will actually change anything and impose any real limits
Dialogue: 0,0:05:44.73,0:05:48.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the US surveillance state.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.22,0:05:52.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And typically when people think the answer to that question is "yes", the thing that they cite most commonly
Dialogue: 0,0:05:52.94,0:05:56.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is probably the least significant, which is that there's going to be some kind of debate
Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.53,0:06:01.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and our representatives and democratic government are going to respond to our debate
Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.38,0:06:04.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they're going to impose limits with legislative reform,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:04.75,0:06:07.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,none of that is likely to happen. The US government and its allies
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.34,0:06:11.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are not going to voluntarily restrict their own surveillance powers
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.10,0:06:14.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in any meaningful way. In fact the tactic of the US government
Dialogue: 0,0:06:14.42,0:06:19.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we see over and over, that we've seen historically, is to do the very opposite, which is
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.31,0:06:25.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they get caught doing something that brings them disrepute and causes scandal and concern,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:25.36,0:06:32.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're very adept at pretending to reform themselves through symbolic gestures,
Dialogue: 0,0:06:32.48,0:06:38.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,while at the same time doing very little other than placating citizen anger and often increasing
Dialogue: 0,0:06:38.28,0:06:41.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their own powers that created the scandal\Nin the first place.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:41.93,0:06:46.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We saw that in the mid-1970s when there was serious concern and alarm
Dialogue: 0,0:06:46.36,0:06:48.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the United States - at least as much there is now if not more so -
Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.96,0:06:53.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the US government surveillance\Ncapabilities and abuse.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:53.93,0:06:55.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what the US government did in response\Nis they said:
Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.85,0:07:02.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,‘Well we're going to engage in all these reforms that will safeguard these powers.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.66,0:07:08.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're gonna create a special court that the government needs to go to get permission before they can target people with surveillance."
Dialogue: 0,0:07:08.62,0:07:12.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that sounded great, but then they created the court in the most warped way possible.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:12.81,0:07:18.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a secret court where only the government gets to show up, where only the most pro-national security judges are appointed,
Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.62,0:07:24.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so this court gave the appearance of oversight when in reality it's the most grotesque rubber-stamp
Dialogue: 0,0:07:24.95,0:07:29.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is known to the western world. They almost never disapprove of anything.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:29.27,0:07:32.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It simply created the appearance that there is judicial oversight.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:32.28,0:07:36.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They also said we are gonna create congressional committees, the intelligence committees
Dialogue: 0,0:07:36.70,0:07:42.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that are gonna have as their main function overseeing the intelligence committees and making certain that they no longer
Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.55,0:07:48.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,abuse their power, and what they did instead was immediately install the most servile loyalists
Dialogue: 0,0:07:48.66,0:07:53.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the intelligence committees as head of this "oversight committee" and
Dialogue: 0,0:07:53.13,0:07:57.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's been going on for decades, and today we have two of the most slavish
Dialogue: 0,0:07:57.100,0:08:05.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pro NSA members of congress as the head of these committees, who are really there to bolster and justify
Dialogue: 0,0:08:05.76,0:08:12.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything and anything the NSA does, rather than engage in real oversight. So again it's designed to prettify the process while
Dialogue: 0,0:08:12.46,0:08:17.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,bringing about no real reform. And this process is now repeating itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:17.15,0:08:24.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You see the president appoint a handful of his closest loyalists to this independent\NWhite House panel
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.28,0:08:29.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that pretended to issue a report that was very balanced and critical of the surveillance state,
Dialogue: 0,0:08:29.27,0:08:34.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but in reality introduced a variety of programs\Nthat at the very best
Dialogue: 0,0:08:34.75,0:08:40.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would simply make these programs slightly more palatable from a public perspective and in many cases
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.64,0:08:46.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,intensify the powers of the surveillance state rather than reigning them in any meaningful way.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:46.49,0:08:49.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the answer to whether or not we gonna have meaningful reform
Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.72,0:08:56.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,definitely does not lie in the typical processes of democratic accountability that we are all\Ntaught to respect, but they
Dialogue: 0,0:08:56.51,0:09:01.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do lie elsewhere. It is possible that there will be courts that will
Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.96,0:09:09.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,impose some meaningful restrictions by finding that the programs are unconstitutional. It's, I think,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:09.93,0:09:18.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,much more possible that other countries around the world who are truly indignant about the breaches of their privacy security
Dialogue: 0,0:09:18.37,0:09:24.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will band together and create alternatives either in terms of infrastructure or legal regimes
Dialogue: 0,0:09:24.30,0:09:30.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that will prevent the United States from exercising hegemony over the internet or make the cost of doing so far too high.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.53,0:09:38.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think even more promising is the fact that large private corporations, internet companies and others
Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.29,0:09:44.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will start finally paying the price for their collaboration with this spying regime.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:44.40,0:09:48.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we've seen that already, when they've been dragged into the light and finally now are forced to
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.61,0:09:54.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,account for what it is that they are doing and to realize that their economic interests are imperiled by the spying system,
Dialogue: 0,0:09:54.74,0:10:00.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,exercising their unparalleled power to demand that it be reigned in. And I think all of those things\Nare very possible
Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.70,0:10:04.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as serious constraints on the surveillance state.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:04.22,0:10:09.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I ultimately think that where the greatest hope lies is
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.42,0:10:16.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the people in this room, and the skills that all of you possess.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.75,0:10:24.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The privacy technologies that have already been developed, the Tor Browser, PGP, OTR
Dialogue: 0,0:10:24.30,0:10:32.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a variety of other products are making real inroads and preventing the US government and its allies from invading
Dialogue: 0,0:10:32.36,0:10:37.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the sanctity of our communications. None of them is perfect, none of them is invulnerable,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:37.32,0:10:44.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they all pose a serious obstacle to the US government's ability to continue to destroy our privacy,
Dialogue: 0,0:10:44.62,0:10:50.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and ultimately the battle over internet freedom, the question of whether or not the internet will really be this tool
Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.54,0:10:56.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of liberation and democratization or whether it will become the worst tool of human oppression in all of
Dialogue: 0,0:10:56.17,0:11:01.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,human history will be fought out, I think, primarily on the technological battlefield.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.60,0:11:05.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The NSA and the US government certainly knows that.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:05.66,0:11:14.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's why Keith Alexander gets dressed up in his little costumes, his dag jeans and his edgy black shirt and goes to hacker conferences.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:14.57,0:11:24.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's why - {\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:11:24.25,0:11:29.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's why corporations in Silicon Valley like Palantir Technologies spend so much effort
Dialogue: 0,0:11:29.56,0:11:36.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,depicting themselves as these kind of rebellious pro civil libertarian factions as they
Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.70,0:11:42.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,spend most of their time in secret working hand in hand with the intelligence community and the CIA to increase their capabilities, because
Dialogue: 0,0:11:42.42,0:11:47.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they want to recruit particularly younger brain power onto their side,
Dialogue: 0,0:11:47.98,0:11:53.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the side of destroying privacy and putting the internet to use for the world's most powerful factions.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:53.77,0:11:58.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what the outcome of this conflict is, what the internet ultimately becomes, really
Dialogue: 0,0:11:58.24,0:12:04.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not answerable in any definitive way now. It depends so much on what it is that we as human beings do.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:04.64,0:12:13.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And one of the most pressing questions is whether people like the ones who are in this room and the people who have the skills that you have,
Dialogue: 0,0:12:13.21,0:12:18.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,now and in the future, will succumb to those temptations and go to work for the very
Dialogue: 0,0:12:18.72,0:12:26.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,entities that are attempting to destroy privacy around the world or whether you will put your talents and skills and resources
Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.47,0:12:31.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to defending human beings from those invasions and continuing to create effective technologies
Dialogue: 0,0:12:31.38,0:12:37.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to protect our privacy. And I'm very optimistic, because that power does lie in your hands.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.53,0:12:48.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.75,0:12:55.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I want to talk about another cause of optimism that I have, which is that the pro-privacy alliance
Dialogue: 0,0:12:55.33,0:13:01.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is a lot healthier and more vibrant, it's a lot bigger and stronger
Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.38,0:13:06.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than I think a lot of us - even who are in it - often appreciate and realize.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:06.26,0:13:12.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And even more so, it is rapidly growing. And I think inexorably growing.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:12.79,0:13:19.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I know for me personally, every single thing that I have done over the last six months on this story,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:19.26,0:13:26.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all of the platforms I've been given like this speech and the honors that I've received, and the accolades that I have been given,
Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.69,0:13:38.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are ones that I share completely with two people who have been critically important to everything that I have done.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:38.23,0:13:48.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of them is my unbelievably brave and incomparably brilliant collaborator, Laura Poitras.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.37,0:14:00.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:14:00.95,0:14:09.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Laura doesn't get a huge amount of attention, which is how she likes it, {\i1}laughter{\i0} but she really does
Dialogue: 0,0:14:09.52,0:14:15.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,deserve every last recognition and honor and award because although it sounds cliché
Dialogue: 0,0:14:15.52,0:14:19.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it really is the case that without her, none of this would have happened.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:19.16,0:14:24.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have talked every single day actually over the last six months. We have made almost every decision,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:24.81,0:14:29.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,certainly every significant one, in complete partnership and collaboration
Dialogue: 0,0:14:29.21,0:14:35.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and being able to work with somebody who has that high level of understanding about internet security,
Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.60,0:14:45.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about strategies for protecting privacy, has been completely indispensible to the success of what we've been able to achieve.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:45.84,0:14:54.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then the second person who has been utterly indispensible and deserves every last accolade\Nto share
Dialogue: 0,0:14:54.92,0:14:59.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and every last reward is my {\i1}unintelligible{\i0} source Edward Snowden.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.61,0:15:20.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:15:20.46,0:15:31.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is really hard to put into words what a profound effect his choice has had on me, and on Laura,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:31.11,0:15:38.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and on the people with whom we have worked directly, and on people with whom we indirectly worked,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:38.32,0:15:46.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then millions and millions of people around the world. The courage and the principle act of conscience
Dialogue: 0,0:15:46.57,0:15:53.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that he displayed will shape and inspire me for the rest of my life and will inspire, I'm convinced,
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.53,0:15:58.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,millions and millions of people to take all sorts of acts that they might not have taken
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.57,0:16:05.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they have seen what good for the world can be done by even a single individual.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:05.95,0:16:16.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.22,0:16:22.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I think it's so important to realize, and this to me is the critical point, is that none of us,\Nthe three of us,
Dialogue: 0,0:16:22.96,0:16:30.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,did what we did in a vacuum. We were all inspired by people who have done similar things in the past.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:30.75,0:16:35.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm absolutely certain that Edward Snowden was inspired in all sorts of ways
Dialogue: 0,0:16:35.73,0:16:41.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the heroism and self-sacrifice of Chelsea Manning.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:41.87,0:16:56.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:16:56.86,0:17:01.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I'm quite certain that in one way or the another she, Chelsea Manning, was inspired
Dialogue: 0,0:17:01.61,0:17:07.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the whole litany of whistleblowers and other people of conscience who
Dialogue: 0,0:17:07.46,0:17:13.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,came before her to blow the whistle on extreme levels of corruption, wrongdoing and illegality
Dialogue: 0,0:17:13.73,0:17:18.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,among the worlds most powerful factions. And they, in turn, where inspired, I'm certain,
Dialogue: 0,0:17:18.74,0:17:24.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the person who is one of my greatest political heroes, Daniel Ellsberg, who did this 40 years ago.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.95,0:17:33.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:17:33.25,0:17:39.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And even beyond that, I think it is really important to realize
Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.92,0:17:45.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that everything that has been allowed to happen over the last six months, and I think
Dialogue: 0,0:17:45.35,0:17:54.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,any kind of significant leak and whistleblowing of classified Information in the digital age both past and current and future
Dialogue: 0,0:17:54.45,0:18:04.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,owes a huge debt of gratitude to the organization which really pioneered the template, and that's Wikileaks.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:04.74,0:18:14.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:18:14.44,0:18:18.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We didn't completely copy to the letter the model of Wikileaks,
Dialogue: 0,0:18:18.37,0:18:21.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we modified it a little bit just like Wikileaks modified what it has
Dialogue: 0,0:18:21.76,0:18:26.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,decided were its best tactics and strategies as it went along. And I'm sure people who come after us will modify
Dialogue: 0,0:18:26.96,0:18:33.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what we have done to improve on what we have done and to avoid some of our mistakes and some of the attacks that have actually
Dialogue: 0,0:18:33.47,0:18:40.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,been successful. But I think the point that is really underscored here, and it was underscored for me probably most powerfully
Dialogue: 0,0:18:40.54,0:18:46.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when Edward Snowden was rescued from Hong Kong from probable
Dialogue: 0,0:18:46.50,0:18:50.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,arrest and imprisonment for the next 30 years by the United States, not only by Wikileaks
Dialogue: 0,0:18:50.84,0:18:56.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but by an extraordinarily courageous and heroic woman, Sarah Harrison.
Dialogue: 0,0:18:56.50,0:19:06.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:19:06.16,0:19:11.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a huge network of human beings around the world
Dialogue: 0,0:19:11.31,0:19:17.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who believe in this cause, and not only believe in it but are increasingly willing to devote
Dialogue: 0,0:19:17.33,0:19:23.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,their energies and their resources and their time and to sacrifice for it.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:23.58,0:19:31.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And, there's a reason that's remarkable and it kind of occurred to me in a telephone call that I had with Laura,
Dialogue: 0,0:19:31.11,0:19:34.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,probably two months or so ago, although we've communicated every day, we've almost never communicated
Dialogue: 0,0:19:34.65,0:19:40.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by telephone and one of the few exceptions was: we were going to speak to an event
Dialogue: 0,0:19:40.56,0:19:43.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at the Electronic Frontier Foundation and we got on the phone
Dialogue: 0,0:19:43.91,0:19:49.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the night before to sort of talk about what ground she would cover and what ground I would cover.
Dialogue: 0,0:19:49.46,0:19:54.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what she said to me is, you know, it's amazing if you think about it and she went through the list of people who have
Dialogue: 0,0:19:54.64,0:19:59.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,devoted themselves to transparency and the price that they paid. And she said: "Edward Snowden is
Dialogue: 0,0:19:59.28,0:20:07.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,stuck in Russia, facing 30 years in prison, Chelsea Manning is in prison, Aaron Swartz committed suicide,
Dialogue: 0,0:20:07.83,0:20:16.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people like Jeremy Hammond and Barret Brown are the subject of grotesquely overzealous prosecutions by virtue of
Dialogue: 0,0:20:16.28,0:20:21.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the action of transparency they've engaged in, even people like Jim Risen, who
Dialogue: 0,0:20:21.81,0:20:25.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is with an organization like the New York Times, faces the possibility of
Dialogue: 0,0:20:25.41,0:20:30.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,prison for stories that he has published." Laura and I have been advised by countless lawyers
Dialogue: 0,0:20:30.95,0:20:34.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it's not safe for us to even travel to our own country. And she said:
Dialogue: 0,0:20:34.25,0:20:38.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"It's really a sign of how sick the political theater has become
Dialogue: 0,0:20:38.59,0:20:43.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the price for bringing transparency to the government and for doing the job of the media and the congress
Dialogue: 0,0:20:43.88,0:20:49.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they are not doing is these extreme forms of punishment."
Dialogue: 0,0:20:49.39,0:20:57.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,She was right and she had a good point and I had a hard time disagreeing with her, and I don't think anybody would.
Dialogue: 0,0:20:57.68,0:21:02.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But I said, you know, there actually is another interesting point that that list revealed:
Dialogue: 0,0:21:02.63,0:21:11.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The thing that is so interesting to me about that list, is that it's actually as long as it is and it keeps growing.
Dialogue: 0,0:21:11.36,0:21:16.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the reason why that's so amazing to me is because the reason that people on that list
Dialogue: 0,0:21:16.71,0:21:20.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and others like them pay a price is because the United States knows
Dialogue: 0,0:21:20.85,0:21:29.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that its only hope for continuing to maintain its regiment of secrecy behind which it engages in radical and corrupt acts,
Dialogue: 0,0:21:29.62,0:21:35.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to intimidate and deter and threaten people who are would-be whistleblowers and transparency activists
Dialogue: 0,0:21:35.62,0:21:39.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from coming forward and doing what it is they do by showing them that they can be subjected
Dialogue: 0,0:21:39.92,0:21:44.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to even the most extreme punishments and there is nothing anybody can do about it. And
Dialogue: 0,0:21:44.96,0:21:54.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's an effective tactic. {\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:21:54.56,0:22:01.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It is an effective tactic. It works for some people. Not because those people are cowardly but because they're rational.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:01.45,0:22:06.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It really is the case that the United States and the British government not only are willing but able
Dialogue: 0,0:22:06.94,0:22:13.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to essentially engage in any conduct, no matter how grotesque, no matter how extreme, no matter how lawless with very little
Dialogue: 0,0:22:13.64,0:22:21.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,opposition that they perceive is enough to make them not want to do it. And so there are activists who rationally conclude
Dialogue: 0,0:22:21.26,0:22:29.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that it's not worth the price for me to pay in order to engage in that behavior. That's why they continue to do it.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:29.40,0:22:36.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the paradox is that there are a lot of other people. I think even more people
Dialogue: 0,0:22:36.40,0:22:43.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who react in exactly the opposite way. When they see the US and the UK government showing their true face,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:43.92,0:22:47.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,showing the extent to which they are willing to abuse their power,
Dialogue: 0,0:22:47.60,0:22:52.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they don't become scared or deterred, they become even more emboldened.
Dialogue: 0,0:22:52.75,0:23:00.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the reason for that is that when you see that these governments are really capable of that level of abuse of power
Dialogue: 0,0:23:00.83,0:23:07.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you realize that you can no longer in good conscience stand by and do nothing. It becomes an even greater imperative view
Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.89,0:23:09.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to come forward and shine a light on what they're doing
Dialogue: 0,0:23:09.98,0:23:13.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if you listen to any of those whistleblowers or activists they'll all say the same thing:
Dialogue: 0,0:23:13.89,0:23:19.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it was a slow process to realize that the actions in which they were engaging were justified
Dialogue: 0,0:23:19.39,0:23:25.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but they were finally convinced of it by the actions of these governments themselves and it's a really sweet irony.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:25.18,0:23:31.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think it caused serious optimism that it is the United States and its closest allies
Dialogue: 0,0:23:31.92,0:23:39.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are sowing the seeds of dissent, who are fueling the fire of this activism with their own abusive behavior.
Dialogue: 0,0:23:39.86,0:23:51.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:23:51.24,0:23:56.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now, speaking of the attempt to intimidate and deter and the like, I just want to spend a few minutes
Dialogue: 0,0:23:56.85,0:24:03.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about the current posture of the United States government with regard to Edward Snowden.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:03.62,0:24:08.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's become extremely clear at this point that the US government at the highest levels on down
Dialogue: 0,0:24:08.34,0:24:14.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is completely committed to pursuing only one outcome.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:14.59,0:24:21.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that outcome is one where Edward Snowden ends up spending several decades - if not the rest of his life -
Dialogue: 0,0:24:21.37,0:24:26.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a small cage, probably cut off in terms of communication from the rest of the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:26.73,0:24:32.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the reason why they are so intent on doing that is not hard to see. It's not because they're worried
Dialogue: 0,0:24:32.25,0:24:38.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that society needs to be protected from Edward Snowden and from him repeating these actions.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:38.45,0:24:44.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it's probably a pretty safe bet that Edward Snowden's security clearance is more or less permanently revoked.
Dialogue: 0,0:24:44.100,0:24:49.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}laughter{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:24:49.21,0:24:53.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The reason they're so intent on it is because they cannot allow
Dialogue: 0,0:24:53.97,0:24:58.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Edward Snowden to live any sort of a decent and free life because they're petrified
Dialogue: 0,0:24:58.44,0:25:02.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that that will inspire other people to follow his example,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:02.17,0:25:09.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to be unwilling to maintain this bond of secrecy, when maintaining that bond does nothing, but hides
Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.98,0:25:16.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,illegal and damaging conduct from the people who are most affected by it.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:16.99,0:25:21.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What I find most amazing about that is not that the United States government is doing that.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:21.61,0:25:24.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's what they do. It's who they are.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:24.53,0:25:28.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What I find amazing about it is that there are so many governments around the world,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:28.53,0:25:33.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including ones that are capable of protecting his human rights,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:33.52,0:25:38.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and who have been the biggest beneficiaries of his heroic revelations,
Dialogue: 0,0:25:38.49,0:25:43.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are willing to stand by and watch his human rights being crushed and be imprisoned
Dialogue: 0,0:25:43.33,0:25:47.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the crime of showing the world what's being done to their privacy.
Dialogue: 0,0:25:47.57,0:26:01.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:26:01.37,0:26:08.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It has really been startling to watch governments, including some of the largest in Europe,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:08.73,0:26:15.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and their leaders go out in public and express intense indignation over the fact
Dialogue: 0,0:26:15.46,0:26:21.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the privacy of their citizens is being systematically breached, and genuine indignation
Dialogue: 0,0:26:21.81,0:26:25.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they learn that their privacy has also been targeted.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:25.56,0:26:37.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}laughter, applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:26:37.68,0:26:47.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And yet, at the same time the person who sacrificed in order to defend their basic human rights, their rights of privacy,
Dialogue: 0,0:26:47.65,0:26:53.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is now having his own human rights targeted and threatened in recrimination.
Dialogue: 0,0:26:53.19,0:27:01.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I realize that for any country like Germany or France or Brazil or any other country around the world
Dialogue: 0,0:27:01.43,0:27:07.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to defy the dictates of the United States, that there is a cost to doing that,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:07.61,0:27:17.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but there was an even greater cost to Edward Snowden to come forward and do what he did in defense of your rights and yet he did it anyway.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:17.16,0:27:28.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:27:28.39,0:27:34.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that what's really important to realize is that countries have
Dialogue: 0,0:27:34.71,0:27:38.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the legal and the international obligation by virtues of treaties that they've signed
Dialogue: 0,0:27:38.94,0:27:45.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to defend Edward Snowden from political prosecution and prevent him from being in cage for the rest of his life
Dialogue: 0,0:27:45.38,0:27:52.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for having shone a light on systematic abuses of privacy and other forms of abuses of secrecy.
Dialogue: 0,0:27:52.78,0:27:57.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But they also have the ethical and moral obligation as the beneficiaries of his actions,
Dialogue: 0,0:27:57.85,0:28:02.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do what he did for them which is to protect his rights in return.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:02.67,0:28:12.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:28:12.42,0:28:19.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I want to spend a little bit of time talking about one of my favorite topics, which is journalism.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:19.82,0:28:28.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I was in Hong Kong with Laura and Ed Snowden, I’ve been reflecting on this a lot in the course of writing the book
Dialogue: 0,0:28:28.30,0:28:31.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I've been writing over the past couple of months about everything that's happened:
Dialogue: 0,0:28:31.56,0:28:35.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the things I realized in looking back on that moment and also in talking to Laura
Dialogue: 0,0:28:35.84,0:28:40.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what took place there was that we spent at least as much time
Dialogue: 0,0:28:40.34,0:28:49.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about issues relating to journalism and a free press as we did talking about surveillance policy.
Dialogue: 0,0:28:49.35,0:28:55.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the reason is that we knew that what we were about to do would trigger
Dialogue: 0,0:28:55.71,0:29:01.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as many debates over the proper role of journalism vis-à-vis the state and other power factions as it would
Dialogue: 0,0:29:01.84,0:29:08.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the importance of internet freedom and privacy and the threat of the surveillance state. And we knew in particular
Dialogue: 0,0:29:08.71,0:29:14.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that one of our most formidable adversaries was not simply going to be the intelligence agencies
Dialogue: 0,0:29:14.77,0:29:18.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on which we were reporting and who we were trying to expose,
Dialogue: 0,0:29:18.22,0:29:25.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but also their most loyal, devoted servants which calls itself the United States and British media.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:25.84,0:29:36.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:29:36.66,0:29:39.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so we spent a great deal of time strategizing about it and we resolved
Dialogue: 0,0:29:39.82,0:29:43.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we're going to have to be very disruptive about the status quo, not only
Dialogue: 0,0:29:43.98,0:29:48.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the surveillance and political status quo but also the journalistic status quo.
Dialogue: 0,0:29:48.80,0:29:53.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think one of the ways that you can see what it is that we were targeting
Dialogue: 0,0:29:53.26,0:29:57.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is in the behavior of the media over the past six months since these revelations have emerged
Dialogue: 0,0:29:57.57,0:30:01.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,almost entirely without them and despite them.
Dialogue: 0,0:30:01.58,0:30:06.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the more remarkable things that has happened to me is I gave an interview
Dialogue: 0,0:30:06.77,0:30:14.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,three weeks or so, or a month ago, on BBC and it was on this program called "HARDtalk" and I, at one point, had made
Dialogue: 0,0:30:14.64,0:30:19.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what I thought was the very unremarkable and uncontroversial observation that
Dialogue: 0,0:30:19.50,0:30:23.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the reason why we have a free press is because national security officials
Dialogue: 0,0:30:23.20,0:30:28.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,routinely lie to the population in order to shield their power and to get their agenda advanced,
Dialogue: 0,0:30:28.57,0:30:34.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that the goal and duty of a journalist is to be adversarial to those people in power and that the pronouncement
Dialogue: 0,0:30:34.92,0:30:39.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that this interviewer was citing about how these government programs are critical to stopping terrorists
Dialogue: 0,0:30:39.64,0:30:47.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,should not be believed unless there's actual evidence shown that they're actually true. And he
Dialogue: 0,0:30:47.23,0:30:54.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,interrupted me - {\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:30:54.64,0:30:56.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When I said that, he interrupted me and he said "Look, I" -
Dialogue: 0,0:30:56.15,0:31:01.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I am sorry, I don't do pompous British accents well, so you'll just have to transpose it in your own imagination.
Dialogue: 0,0:31:01.22,0:31:09.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But he said: "You know, I just need to stop you, you have said something so remarkable."
Dialogue: 0,0:31:09.33,0:31:16.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He was like a Victorian priest scandalized by seeing a woman pull up her skirt a little bit over her ankles. He said:
Dialogue: 0,0:31:16.46,0:31:27.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I just cannot believe that you would suggest that senior officials, generals in the United States and
Dialogue: 0,0:31:27.48,0:31:33.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the British government are actually making false claims to the public. How can you possibly say something {\i1}unintelligible{\i0}..."
Dialogue: 0,0:31:33.28,0:31:45.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}laughter, applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:31:45.40,0:31:54.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is not aberrational! It really is the central view of certain American and British media stars
Dialogue: 0,0:31:54.69,0:31:59.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that when especially people with medals on their chest who are called generals,
Dialogue: 0,0:31:59.92,0:32:07.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but also high officials in the government make claims that those claims are presumptively treated as true
Dialogue: 0,0:32:07.18,0:32:12.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without evidence and that it’s almost immoral to call them into question or to question their veracity.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:12.89,0:32:19.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And obviously we went through the Iraq war in which those very two same governments,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:19.38,0:32:23.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,specifically and deliberately lied repeatedly [to] the government to their people
Dialogue: 0,0:32:23.88,0:32:28.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over the course of two years to justify an aggressive war that destroyed a country of 26 million people.
Dialogue: 0,0:32:28.77,0:32:33.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we've seen it continuously over the last six months as well:
Dialogue: 0,0:32:33.55,0:32:40.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The very first document that Edward Snowden ever showed me was one that he explained would reveal
Dialogue: 0,0:32:40.88,0:32:46.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unquestionable lying by the senior national intelligence official of President Obama,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:46.75,0:32:50.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper. That was the document that revealed
Dialogue: 0,0:32:50.89,0:32:55.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the Obama administration had succeeded in convincing a court, its secret court,
Dialogue: 0,0:32:55.93,0:33:01.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to compel phone companies to turn over to the NSA every single phone record
Dialogue: 0,0:33:01.33,0:33:07.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of every single telephone call, local and international, of every single American.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:07.42,0:33:13.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Even though that National Security official, James Clapper, before the Senate, just months earlier was asked:
Dialogue: 0,0:33:13.13,0:33:19.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Does the NSA collect phone data about the communications of Americans?", and he answered
Dialogue: 0,0:33:19.62,0:33:25.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"No, Sir." What we all now know is a complete lie.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:25.26,0:33:31.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are other lies that the NSA and its top officials, US government top officials have told.
Dialogue: 0,0:33:31.73,0:33:36.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And by lie I mean advisedly, things they know to be false that they're saying anyway to convince people
Dialogue: 0,0:33:36.61,0:33:41.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of what they want them to believe. Keith Alexander repeatedly said, the head of the NSA,
Dialogue: 0,0:33:41.21,0:33:47.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they are incapable of accounting for the exact number of calls and emails that they intercept\Nfrom the
Dialogue: 0,0:33:47.99,0:33:53.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,American telecommunication system even though the program that we ended up exposing, "Boundless Informant",
Dialogue: 0,0:33:53.66,0:34:00.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,counts with exact mathematical precision. Exactly the data that he said he is incapable of providing.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:00.51,0:34:05.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Both the NSA and the GCHQ have repeatedly said that the purpose of these programs
Dialogue: 0,0:34:05.58,0:34:11.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to protect people from terrorism and to safeguard national security, and that they would never,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:11.25,0:34:18.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unlike these evil [thieves?], engage in spying for economic demands and yet report after report that we revealed,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:18.70,0:34:24.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from spying on the Brazilian oil giant Petrobras, from spying on the Organization of American states at economic summits
Dialogue: 0,0:34:24.94,0:34:30.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where economic accords were negotiated, to energy companies around the world, in Europe, in Asia, in Latin America,
Dialogue: 0,0:34:30.99,0:34:37.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would just completely negate these claims and prove that they are lies.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:37.93,0:34:42.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And then we have President Obama who repeatedly says things like
Dialogue: 0,0:34:42.19,0:34:47.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"We can not, and do not, spy on or even eavesdrop on the communications of Americans without warrants
Dialogue: 0,0:34:47.58,0:34:53.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even though the 2008 law that was enacted by the Congress of which he was a part and {\i1}unintelligible{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:34:53.56,0:34:59.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}unintelligible{\i0} to empower the US government to eavesdrop on Americans' communication without warrants.
Dialogue: 0,0:34:59.92,0:35:07.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what you see here is serial lying and yet at the same time the, same media that seized it
Dialogue: 0,0:35:07.48,0:35:13.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,acts scandalized if you suggest that their claims should not be taken at face value without evidence
Dialogue: 0,0:35:13.84,0:35:19.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because their role is not to be adversaries. Their role is to be loyal spokespeople
Dialogue: 0,0:35:19.31,0:35:23.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to those powerful factions [that] pretend to exercise oversight.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:23.74,0:35:34.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:35:34.39,0:35:40.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Just one more point on that, which is to understand just how the American and British media function.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:40.100,0:35:50.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can pretty much turn on the TV at any moment or open a new internet website and see very brave American journalists
Dialogue: 0,0:35:50.41,0:35:57.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,calling Edward Snowden criminal and demanding that he be extradited to the United States and prosecuted and imprisoned.
Dialogue: 0,0:35:57.72,0:36:04.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They're very, very brave when it comes to declaring people who are scorned in Washington and who have no power and have become marginalized,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:04.81,0:36:09.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they're very brave in condemning them and standing up to them and demanding that the rule of law
Dialogue: 0,0:36:09.58,0:36:14.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,be applied to them faithfully. He broke the law, he must pay the consequences.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:14.39,0:36:21.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And yet, the top national security official of the United States government went to the Senate and lied to their face as everybody now knows,
Dialogue: 0,0:36:21.75,0:36:26.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is at least as much of a serious crime as anything Edward Snowden is accused of.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:26.82,0:36:32.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And you will be hard-pressed to find a single one of those brave journalists.
Dialogue: 0,0:36:32.11,0:36:43.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:36:43.37,0:36:49.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You will be very hard-pressed to find even a single one of those brave intrepid journalists
Dialogue: 0,0:36:49.96,0:36:57.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ever even think about, let alone express the idea that Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, ought to be
Dialogue: 0,0:36:57.93,0:37:02.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,subject to the rule of law and be prosecuted in prison for the crimes that he committed,
Dialogue: 0,0:37:02.67,0:37:10.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the role of the US media and their British counterparts is to be voices for those with the greatest power
Dialogue: 0,0:37:10.91,0:37:15.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to protect their interests and serve them. And everything that we've done over the last six months and
Dialogue: 0,0:37:15.83,0:37:19.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everything we've decided in the last month about forming a new media organization
Dialogue: 0,0:37:19.84,0:37:26.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is all about trying to subvert that process and reanimate and reinstill the process of journalism
Dialogue: 0,0:37:26.51,0:37:32.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for what it was intended to be, which is as a true adversarial force, a check against
Dialogue: 0,0:37:32.61,0:37:35.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those with the greatest power.
Dialogue: 0,0:37:35.62,0:37:48.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:37:48.55,0:37:55.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, I just wanna close with one last point, which is
Dialogue: 0,0:37:55.18,0:38:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the nature of the surveillance state that we've reported over the last six months.
Dialogue: 0,0:38:00.49,0:38:04.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every time I do an interview, people ask similar questions such as
Dialogue: 0,0:38:04.98,0:38:09.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"What is the most significant story that you have revealed?" or
Dialogue: 0,0:38:09.78,0:38:13.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"What is it that we have learned about the last story that you just published?", and
Dialogue: 0,0:38:13.92,0:38:18.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,what I really begun saying is that there really is only one overarching point
Dialogue: 0,0:38:18.77,0:38:22.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that all of these stories have revealed, and that is
Dialogue: 0,0:38:22.99,0:38:28.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- and I say this without the slightest bit hyperbole or melodrama, it's not metaphorical
Dialogue: 0,0:38:28.43,0:38:31.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it's not figurative, it is literally true -
Dialogue: 0,0:38:31.10,0:38:35.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the goal of the NSA and its "five eyes"-partners in the English-speaking world
Dialogue: 0,0:38:35.59,0:38:38.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Canada, New Zealand, Australia and especially the UK,
Dialogue: 0,0:38:38.96,0:38:45.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to eliminate privacy globally, to ensure that there be no human communications
Dialogue: 0,0:38:45.80,0:38:50.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that occur electronically that evades their surveillance net. They wanna make sure
Dialogue: 0,0:38:50.87,0:38:56.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that all forms of human communication by telephone or by internet and all online activities
Dialogue: 0,0:38:56.29,0:39:03.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are collected, monitored, stored and analyzed by that agency and by their allies.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:03.33,0:39:10.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is [despite] that is to [describe] a ubiquitous surveillance state. You don't need hyperbole to make that point,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:10.29,0:39:15.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you don't need to believe me when I say that's their goal, document after document within the archive
Dialogue: 0,0:39:15.29,0:39:18.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that Edward Snowden provided us declare that to be their goal.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:18.48,0:39:23.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They are obsessed with searching out any small, little crevice on the planet,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:23.65,0:39:29.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where some forms of communication might take place without their being able to invade it.
Dialogue: 0,0:39:29.100,0:39:33.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the stories that we are working on right now, I used to get in trouble when I was at the Guardian for previewing my stories,
Dialogue: 0,0:39:33.79,0:39:37.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm not at the Guardian anymore, so I'm just gonna do it anyway, is -
Dialogue: 0,0:39:37.98,0:39:44.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:39:44.70,0:39:53.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The NSA and the GCHQ are being driven crazy by the idea that you can go on an airplane
Dialogue: 0,0:39:53.100,0:39:58.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and use certain cell phone devices or internet services
Dialogue: 0,0:39:58.80,0:40:06.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and be away from their prying eyes for a few hours at a time. They are obsessed with finding ways
Dialogue: 0,0:40:06.62,0:40:13.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to invade the systems of online onboard internet service and mobile phone service because
Dialogue: 0,0:40:13.73,0:40:18.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the very idea that human beings can communicate even for a few moments
Dialogue: 0,0:40:18.55,0:40:22.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without them being able to collect and store and analyze and monitor what it is they were saying
Dialogue: 0,0:40:22.46,0:40:25.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is simply intolerable. That is their institutional mandate.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:25.95,0:40:29.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when I get asked questions when I do interviews in different countries:
Dialogue: 0,0:40:29.26,0:40:35.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Well, why would they want to spy on this official?" or "Why would they want to spy on Sweden?"
Dialogue: 0,0:40:35.28,0:40:39.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or "Why would they want to target this company here?"
Dialogue: 0,0:40:39.29,0:40:43.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The premise of that question is really flawed. The premise of the question is
Dialogue: 0,0:40:43.65,0:40:49.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the NSA and the CGHQ need a specific reason to target somebody for surveillance. That is not how they think.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:49.63,0:40:55.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They target every form of communication that they can possibly get their hands on.
Dialogue: 0,0:40:55.29,0:41:01.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you think about what individual privacy does for us as human beings,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:01.28,0:41:05.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let alone what it does for us on a political level, that it really is the thing that lets us
Dialogue: 0,0:41:05.96,0:41:14.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,explore boundaries and engage in creativity and use the mechanisms of dissent without fear.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:14.75,0:41:18.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When you think about a world in which privacy is allowed to be eliminated
Dialogue: 0,0:41:18.65,0:41:23.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,– I’m literally talking about eliminating everything that makes it valuable to be a free individual.
Dialogue: 0,0:41:23.34,0:41:29.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The surveillance state by its necessity, by its very existence, breeds conformity
Dialogue: 0,0:41:29.27,0:41:35.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because when human beings know they are always susceptible to being watched, even if they are not always being watched,
Dialogue: 0,0:41:35.17,0:41:41.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the choices that they make are far more constrained, are far more limited, cling far more closely to orthodoxy
Dialogue: 0,0:41:41.67,0:41:46.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than when they can act in the private realm and that's precisely why the NSA and the GCHQ
Dialogue: 0,0:41:46.73,0:41:52.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the worlds most powerful [dignitaries] throughout history and now always as their first goal have
Dialogue: 0,0:41:52.61,0:41:57.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the elimination of privacy at the top of their list because it's what ensures
Dialogue: 0,0:41:57.19,0:42:02.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that human beings can no longer resist the decrees that they're issuing.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:02.16,0:42:07.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you once again very much. {\i1}applause{\i0}{\i1}unintelligible{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:42:07.38,0:42:23.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}continued applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:42:24.75,0:42:33.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rieger: Thanks, Glenn! We have a little bit of time for questions. I start with one:
Dialogue: 0,0:42:33.42,0:42:43.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What do you think is the motivation behind this "We want to be able to spy on really everyone?"
Dialogue: 0,0:42:43.38,0:42:47.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the motivation behind the motivation.
Dialogue: 0,0:42:47.12,0:42:52.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Greenwald: There are some obvious discrete motivations: Whether it be the ability to learn what
Dialogue: 0,0:42:52.33,0:42:58.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,economic competitors are doing, the ability to learn about technological advances in other countries in order to replicate them,
Dialogue: 0,0:42:58.88,0:43:03.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the ability to learn what's happening politically and diplomatically in different countries
Dialogue: 0,0:43:03.48,0:43:07.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to get better contract negotiations or to be able to better manipulate the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:07.43,0:43:12.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But ultimately there really is only one goal and that goal is power.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:12.84,0:43:18.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you think about what it means to be able to know everything about
Dialogue: 0,0:43:18.78,0:43:23.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everybody else in the rest of the world, and this is the key for me, while at the same time
Dialogue: 0,0:43:23.94,0:43:27.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,those power factions that know everything about what the rest of the world is doing
Dialogue: 0,0:43:27.88,0:43:33.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are building an ever higher and more impenetrable wall of secrecy behind which they operate,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:33.44,0:43:38.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the power imbalance is as extreme as it gets. In a healthy society,
Dialogue: 0,0:43:38.19,0:43:44.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,private individuals, have privacy - hence the name privacy, except in the rarest of cases.
Dialogue: 0,0:43:44.70,0:43:52.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's supposed to be public servants, public figures, public agencies that have extreme transparency except in the most
Dialogue: 0,0:43:52.69,0:43:58.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,extreme cases - hence the name public sector. And yet we completely reversed that, so that
Dialogue: 0,0:43:58.70,0:44:04.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we as private individuals have almost no privacy, and they as public figures, public servants, public officials
Dialogue: 0,0:44:04.41,0:44:09.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have almost no transparency and that ultimately is what this surveillance system is about,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:09.50,0:44:11.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is accumulating more and more power
Dialogue: 0,0:44:11.61,0:44:14.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by being able to know everything about those over whom they're ruling,
Dialogue: 0,0:44:14.78,0:44:18.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,while those over whom they're ruling know virtually nothing about them.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:18.69,0:44:28.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:44:29.10,0:44:33.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rieger: We have approximately ten more minutes for questions from the audience.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:33.93,0:44:42.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Herald Angel: So: please the audience line up at microphone 1, 2, 3 and 4 if you want to ask a question.
Dialogue: 0,0:44:42.73,0:44:48.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There are also questions from the internet. On the other hand, I exploit my position here
Dialogue: 0,0:44:48.63,0:44:58.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and want to ask one thing: Are you fearing for your own well-being to be harmed?
Dialogue: 0,0:44:58.93,0:45:05.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Greenwald: You know, I think there is obvious risk to what Laura Poitras and I have both done together.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:05.18,0:45:10.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Like I said before, we've been advised by lawyers that we really shouldn't travel. Obviously
Dialogue: 0,0:45:10.56,0:45:17.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,my partner not only was detained under a terrorism law by the British government. But we're now all being threatened
Dialogue: 0,0:45:17.86,0:45:21.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with prosecution under terrorism and espionage statutes. When you
Dialogue: 0,0:45:21.16,0:45:25.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,have tens of thousands of top secret documents there is obvious risk to that as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:25.78,0:45:30.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But journalists around the world and activists around the world, not only in the past
Dialogue: 0,0:45:30.62,0:45:36.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but currently are {\i1}unintelligible{\i0} facing far greater dangers and had paid far greater prices than anything we have.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:36.88,0:45:41.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I don't spend very much time thinking about that at all it's a very easy choice,
Dialogue: 0,0:45:41.52,0:45:45.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when I see the people like Edward Snowden and the other ones on the list making the choices they've made
Dialogue: 0,0:45:45.50,0:45:53.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to do my part, which is often a subset of what they're doing, in pursuit of these values that I really believe in.
Dialogue: 0,0:45:53.42,0:46:02.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:46:02.45,0:46:06.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Angel: So, the next question is from the internet.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:06.26,0:46:11.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Signal Angel: Do you hear me? Okay. How do you decide which detail you share with the world and
Dialogue: 0,0:46:11.90,0:46:19.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which you are not allowed or which you don't know if we are allowed to see everything you have.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:19.54,0:46:25.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What is your decision process there? Do you decide that on your own or in a committee?
Dialogue: 0,0:46:25.74,0:46:31.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what are the criteria for the information that you release right now?
Dialogue: 0,0:46:31.41,0:46:37.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Greenwald: That's a great question. That has probably been by far the hardest choices that we've had to make.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:37.90,0:46:41.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I know there's a lot of debate surrounding it, and I've watched that debate because
Dialogue: 0,0:46:41.53,0:46:45.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's been really valuable to I think all of us who have had to make these choices.
Dialogue: 0,0:46:45.27,0:46:53.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first factor that we use is the agreement that we entered into with Edward Snowden when he came to us and
Dialogue: 0,0:46:53.30,0:47:00.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,expressed very clear ideas about what he wanted to achieve and how he thought that could be achieved.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:00.27,0:47:04.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we spent a lot of time talking to him about the methods that we would use,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:04.66,0:47:08.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about what we would publish, about what we wouldn't publish.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:08.78,0:47:15.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And regardless of the debates that have taken place we feel duty-bound to adhere to the agreement
Dialogue: 0,0:47:15.10,0:47:20.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we entered into with him, because he is not an object to be sacrificed for a cause,
Dialogue: 0,0:47:20.89,0:47:29.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he is a human being whose agency and autonomy has to be regarded and honored. And everything that we have done…
Dialogue: 0,0:47:29.70,0:47:37.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:47:37.60,0:47:42.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everything that we have done has been guided by the formula that we created together with him.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:42.31,0:47:50.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have been one of the most vocal supporters of Wikileaks and of Chelsea Manning
Dialogue: 0,0:47:50.96,0:47:56.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I will be that for as long as I live. I believe in radical transparency.
Dialogue: 0,0:47:56.23,0:48:03.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think the methods that they used to disclose the war logs and the diplomatic cables were exactly the right ones to use.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:03.68,0:48:11.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think that there are different tactics and strategies that are optimal for different situations.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:11.97,0:48:17.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And one of the choices that we made was, that there were certain kind of information we didn't want to disclose.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:17.58,0:48:21.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We didn't want to disclose information that would help other states
Dialogue: 0,0:48:21.94,0:48:26.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,augment their surveillance capabilities to which they would subject their own citizens.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:26.61,0:48:34.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We didn't want to publish any of the information that the NSA has gathered about people.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:34.64,0:48:40.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whether it be their raw communications or the things the NSA has said about them as a result of what they gather,
Dialogue: 0,0:48:40.39,0:48:45.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because to do that would destroy people's privacy and do the NSA's dirty work for them.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:45.13,0:48:51.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we didn't want to publish anything that would endanger the lives of innocent human beings
Dialogue: 0,0:48:51.41,0:48:53.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who might be named by those documents.
Dialogue: 0,0:48:53.71,0:49:00.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everything else beyond that, what we have done is thought to publish in a way that will create
Dialogue: 0,0:49:00.39,0:49:06.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the most powerful debate and the greatest level of recognition
Dialogue: 0,0:49:06.11,0:49:13.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to sustain the interest that people have in the debate that we felt like was so urgently needed.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:13.17,0:49:18.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I can tell you, that we are only 6 months into doing this. It took Wikileaks,
Dialogue: 0,0:49:18.10,0:49:23.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I believe nine months from the time they got the diplomatic cables until the time they began publishing them.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:23.67,0:49:27.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,These documents are complicated, people are waiting for us to make mistakes. It's important
Dialogue: 0,0:49:27.74,0:49:31.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we understand what it is that we are publishing so that what we say about them is accurate.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:31.71,0:49:38.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a lot more stories to come, a lot more documents that will be published.
Dialogue: 0,0:49:38.37,0:49:55.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:49:55.24,0:50:02.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the only other thing I can say is that Laura and I and other people who have been working on these documents including Edward Snowden
Dialogue: 0,0:50:02.11,0:50:07.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,share exactly the same believes that you have and exactly the same values about transparency.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:07.54,0:50:13.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the last thing that any of us would ever do is sit on or conceal a story
Dialogue: 0,0:50:13.90,0:50:18.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the world ought to know about because it's newsworthy and shines a light on what these factions are doing
Dialogue: 0,0:50:18.70,0:50:25.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that would never ever happen. Every last newsworthy document will be published.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:25.16,0:50:34.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:50:35.76,0:50:37.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Angel: So microphone 1, please.
Dialogue: 0,0:50:37.86,0:50:46.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Audience member: I know about the attacks that the GCHQ, the British police have done to you
Dialogue: 0,0:50:46.93,0:50:51.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- they tried to trash your hardware. And I'd like to know if there were more than that,
Dialogue: 0,0:50:51.64,0:51:00.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like attacks to you personally. Because you talked about the attacks they used.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:00.43,0:51:09.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Greenwald: I think the GCHQ has done us and the world a huge favor by showing their true face to the world.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:09.76,0:51:13.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I mean, will the British government ever be able to stand up in public again
Dialogue: 0,0:51:13.97,0:51:19.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and condemn some other country for attacks on press freedom without triggering a global laughing fit?
Dialogue: 0,0:51:19.99,0:51:29.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:51:30.33,0:51:36.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that the most important thing that you can do as a journalist when you're being threatened
Dialogue: 0,0:51:36.37,0:51:41.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,- and the threats have gone far beyond what you just asked about. They are, as I said,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:41.74,0:51:45.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,continuously threatening in all sorts of formal and informal ways,
Dialogue: 0,0:51:45.19,0:51:48.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to criminally charge some or all of us who have been involved in this reporting.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:48.98,0:51:52.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The only thing that you can do is to stand up to the playground bully
Dialogue: 0,0:51:52.28,0:51:56.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and continue to publish in defiance of their threats and that's what we're gonna continue to do.
Dialogue: 0,0:51:56.89,0:52:05.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:52:05.48,0:52:07.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Angel: Microphone 4, please.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:07.51,0:52:10.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Audience member: Do you have the impression that the governments, especially the German government,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:10.97,0:52:15.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are actually doing something? Or do you have the impression that they are just putting up a show for the citizens
Dialogue: 0,0:52:15.77,0:52:20.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,while they actually prefer to cooperate with the NSA and support them?
Dialogue: 0,0:52:20.80,0:52:25.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if it's the latter, what can we do about it?
Dialogue: 0,0:52:25.80,0:52:28.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Greenwald: It's definitely the latter.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:28.29,0:52:37.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}laughter, applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:52:37.88,0:52:43.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Ultimately, governments will do two things:
Dialogue: 0,0:52:43.43,0:52:48.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They will in the first instance do everything that they can to advance their own interests.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:48.68,0:52:53.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And governments around the world, especially in the west, don't perceive it to be in their own interest,
Dialogue: 0,0:52:53.70,0:52:57.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at least some of them, to disobey the United Stated.
Dialogue: 0,0:52:57.41,0:53:00.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they also don't perceive it to be in their own interest
Dialogue: 0,0:53:00.45,0:53:06.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to take meaningful action against surveillance policies where today themselves believe in and engage in.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:06.46,0:53:12.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so the question then becomes: How do you get them to do something beyond that framework?
Dialogue: 0,0:53:12.49,0:53:19.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the only real answer becomes: to increase the cost to doing it. As I said earlier, I think that
Dialogue: 0,0:53:19.95,0:53:26.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the cost to the internet sector in the United States has become quite real. The cost of Boeing
Dialogue: 0,0:53:26.94,0:53:31.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which just lost a 4 billion dollar contract for fighter jets because Brazil didn't want to buy
Dialogue: 0,0:53:31.92,0:53:37.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from a country that has been systematically spying on them is very real.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:37.42,0:53:44.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:53:45.91,0:53:51.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it's up to all of us to devise ways, to not persuade them,
Dialogue: 0,0:53:51.23,0:53:56.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I don't think that power centers get persuaded in that way, by nice lofty arguments.
Dialogue: 0,0:53:56.76,0:54:01.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it's important to devise ways to raise the costs severely,
Dialogue: 0,0:54:01.57,0:54:06.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for either their active participation in or their acquiescence to
Dialogue: 0,0:54:06.99,0:54:11.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the systematic erosion of our privacy rights. And when we find a way to put them in the position
Dialogue: 0,0:54:11.30,0:54:18.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where it's not we who are in fear of them but they who are in fear of us, that's when these policies will change.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:18.12,0:54:26.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:54:27.23,0:54:30.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rieger: I think it was a perfect closing of your keynote.
Dialogue: 0,0:54:30.24,0:54:34.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thanks a lot for taking the time, and {\i1}interrupted{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:54:34.64,0:54:38.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}very loud applause{\i0}\N{\i1}standing ovations{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:54:38.59,0:54:44.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Greenwald: Thank you, everybody. Appreciated!
Dialogue: 0,0:54:44.32,0:54:49.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}standing ovation{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:54:52.66,0:54:58.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:00.79,0:55:26.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,{\i1}continued applause{\i0}
Dialogue: 0,0:55:28.27,0:55:31.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you very much.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:31.18,0:55:36.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rieger: And please continue your work!
Dialogue: 0,0:55:36.27,0:55:40.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Greenwald: Thank you.
Dialogue: 0,0:55:40.71,0:55:51.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,subtitles created by c3subtitles.de