[Script Info] Title: [Events] Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.56,0:00:02.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Audrey Tang: Very happy to be joining you, Dialogue: 0,0:00:02.60,0:00:04.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and good local time, everyone. Dialogue: 0,0:00:06.14,0:00:08.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,David Biello: So, tell us about -- Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.96,0:00:10.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sorry to -- Dialogue: 0,0:00:10.42,0:00:12.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Tell us about digital tools and COVID. Dialogue: 0,0:00:14.20,0:00:15.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Sure. Dialogue: 0,0:00:15.37,0:00:17.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, I'm really happy to share with you Dialogue: 0,0:00:17.76,0:00:20.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how Taiwan successfully\Ncountered the COVID Dialogue: 0,0:00:20.57,0:00:23.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,using the power\Nof digital democracy tools. Dialogue: 0,0:00:24.10,0:00:27.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As we know, democracy improves\Nas more people participate. Dialogue: 0,0:00:27.75,0:00:32.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And digital technology remains one\Nof the best ways to improve participation, Dialogue: 0,0:00:32.27,0:00:34.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as long as the focus\Nis on finding common ground, Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.68,0:00:38.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is to say, prosocial media\Ninstead of antisocial media. Dialogue: 0,0:00:38.81,0:00:42.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's three key ideas\Nthat I would like to share today Dialogue: 0,0:00:42.51,0:00:46.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about digital democracy\Nthat is fast, fair and fun. Dialogue: 0,0:00:48.28,0:00:50.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First about the fast part. Dialogue: 0,0:00:50.31,0:00:54.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whereas many jurisdictions began\Ncountering coronavirus only this year, Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.04,0:00:55.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Taiwan started last year. Dialogue: 0,0:00:55.90,0:00:59.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Last December, when Dr. Li Wenliang,\Nthe PRC whistleblower, Dialogue: 0,0:00:59.59,0:01:02.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,posted that there are new SARS cases, Dialogue: 0,0:01:02.33,0:01:04.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he got inquiries\Nand eventually punishments Dialogue: 0,0:01:04.63,0:01:06.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from PRC police institutions. Dialogue: 0,0:01:06.96,0:01:08.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But at the same time, Dialogue: 0,0:01:08.13,0:01:11.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Taiwan equivalent\Nof Reddit, the Ptt board, Dialogue: 0,0:01:11.09,0:01:12.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has someone called nomorepipe Dialogue: 0,0:01:12.95,0:01:15.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,reposting Dr. Li Wenliang's\Nwhistleblowing. Dialogue: 0,0:01:15.77,0:01:18.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And our medical officers\Nimmediately noticed this post Dialogue: 0,0:01:18.76,0:01:20.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and issued an order that says Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.34,0:01:23.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all passengers flying in\Nfrom Wuhan to Taiwan Dialogue: 0,0:01:23.04,0:01:25.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,need to start health inspections\Nthe very next day, Dialogue: 0,0:01:25.51,0:01:27.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is the first day of January. Dialogue: 0,0:01:27.60,0:01:29.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this says to me two things. Dialogue: 0,0:01:29.47,0:01:31.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,First, the civil society\Ntrusts the government enough Dialogue: 0,0:01:32.01,0:01:34.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to talk about possible\Nnew SARS outbreaks in the public forum. Dialogue: 0,0:01:34.100,0:01:36.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the government trusts citizens enough Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.99,0:01:40.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to take it seriously and treat it\Nas if SARS has happened again, Dialogue: 0,0:01:40.24,0:01:43.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something we've always\Nbeen preparing for, since 2003. Dialogue: 0,0:01:43.54,0:01:45.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And because of this open civil society, Dialogue: 0,0:01:45.92,0:01:49.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,according to the CIVICUS Monitor\Nafter the Sunflower Occupy, Dialogue: 0,0:01:49.81,0:01:52.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Taiwan is now the most open society\Nin the whole of Asia. Dialogue: 0,0:01:52.99,0:01:55.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We enjoy the same freedom\Nof speech, of assembly, Dialogue: 0,0:01:55.82,0:01:58.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[unclear] as other liberal democracies, Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.32,0:02:00.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but with the emphasis\Non keeping an open mind Dialogue: 0,0:02:00.55,0:02:03.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to novel ideas from the society. Dialogue: 0,0:02:03.42,0:02:06.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that is why our schools\Nand businesses still remain open today, Dialogue: 0,0:02:06.94,0:02:08.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was no lockdown, Dialogue: 0,0:02:08.20,0:02:10.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's been a month\Nwith no local confirmed cases. Dialogue: 0,0:02:11.51,0:02:12.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the fast part. Dialogue: 0,0:02:12.100,0:02:16.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every day, our Central Epidemic\NCommand Center, or CECC, Dialogue: 0,0:02:16.29,0:02:18.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,holds a press conference,\Nwhich is always livestreamed, Dialogue: 0,0:02:18.96,0:02:20.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we work with the journalists, Dialogue: 0,0:02:20.63,0:02:23.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they answer all the questions\Nfrom the journalists, Dialogue: 0,0:02:23.06,0:02:26.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and whenever there's a new idea\Ncoming in from the social sector, Dialogue: 0,0:02:26.17,0:02:28.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anyone can pick up\Ntheir phone and call 1922 Dialogue: 0,0:02:28.32,0:02:30.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and tell that idea to the CECC. Dialogue: 0,0:02:30.48,0:02:32.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, there was one day in April Dialogue: 0,0:02:32.78,0:02:35.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where a young boy has said\Nhe doesn't want to go to school Dialogue: 0,0:02:35.77,0:02:37.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because his school mates may laugh at him Dialogue: 0,0:02:37.75,0:02:40.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because all he had is a pink medical mask. Dialogue: 0,0:02:40.48,0:02:41.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The very next day, Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.68,0:02:45.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everybody in the CECC press conference\Nstarted wearing pink medical masks, Dialogue: 0,0:02:45.70,0:02:48.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,making sure that everybody learns\Nabout gender mainstreaming. Dialogue: 0,0:02:48.65,0:02:50.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so this kind of rapid response system Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.69,0:02:53.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,builds trust between the government\Nand the civil society. Dialogue: 0,0:02:53.73,0:02:55.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the second focus is fairness. Dialogue: 0,0:02:55.59,0:02:58.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Making sure everybody can use\Ntheir national health insurance card Dialogue: 0,0:02:58.75,0:03:00.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to collect masks from nearby pharmacies, Dialogue: 0,0:03:00.72,0:03:04.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not only do we publish the stock level\Nof masks of all pharmacies, Dialogue: 0,0:03:04.32,0:03:05.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,6,000 of them, Dialogue: 0,0:03:05.50,0:03:08.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we publish it every 30 seconds. Dialogue: 0,0:03:08.10,0:03:12.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's why our civic hackers,\Nour civil engineers in the digital space, Dialogue: 0,0:03:12.12,0:03:16.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,built more than 100 tools\Nthat enable people to view a map, Dialogue: 0,0:03:16.27,0:03:20.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or people with blindness\Nwho talk to chat bots, voice assistants, Dialogue: 0,0:03:20.18,0:03:23.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all of them can get the same\Ninclusive access to information Dialogue: 0,0:03:23.32,0:03:26.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about which pharmacies near them\Nstill have masks. Dialogue: 0,0:03:26.08,0:03:28.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And because the national\Nhealth insurance single payer Dialogue: 0,0:03:28.81,0:03:31.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is more than 99.9 percent\Nof health coverage, Dialogue: 0,0:03:32.00,0:03:33.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who show any symptoms Dialogue: 0,0:03:33.48,0:03:35.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will then be able to take\Nthe medical mask, Dialogue: 0,0:03:35.66,0:03:36.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,go to a local clinic, Dialogue: 0,0:03:36.97,0:03:39.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,knowing fully that they will\Nget treated fairly Dialogue: 0,0:03:39.23,0:03:41.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without incurring any financial burden. Dialogue: 0,0:03:41.29,0:03:42.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so people designed a dashboard Dialogue: 0,0:03:42.96,0:03:45.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that lets everybody see\Nour supply is indeed growing, Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.52,0:03:47.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and whether there's over- or undersupply, Dialogue: 0,0:03:47.78,0:03:50.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that we codesign\Nthis distribution system Dialogue: 0,0:03:50.34,0:03:52.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the pharmacies,\Nwith the whole of society. Dialogue: 0,0:03:52.78,0:03:54.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So based on this analysis, Dialogue: 0,0:03:54.81,0:03:58.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we show that there was\Na peak at 70 percent, Dialogue: 0,0:03:58.70,0:04:02.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that remaining 20 percent of people\Nwere often young, work very long hours, Dialogue: 0,0:04:02.98,0:04:05.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when they go off work,\Nthe pharmacies also went off work, Dialogue: 0,0:04:05.94,0:04:08.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so we work with convenience stores Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.21,0:04:10.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that everybody can collect\Ntheir mask anytime, Dialogue: 0,0:04:10.54,0:04:11.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,24 hours a day. Dialogue: 0,0:04:11.98,0:04:13.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we ensure fairness of all kinds, Dialogue: 0,0:04:13.76,0:04:16.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,based on the digital democracy's feedback. Dialogue: 0,0:04:17.07,0:04:20.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And finally, I would like to acknowledge\Nthat this is a very stressful time. Dialogue: 0,0:04:20.70,0:04:22.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People feel anxious, outraged, Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.02,0:04:24.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's a lot of panic buying, Dialogue: 0,0:04:24.49,0:04:27.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a lot of conspiracy theories\Nin all economies. Dialogue: 0,0:04:27.34,0:04:28.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And in Taiwan, Dialogue: 0,0:04:28.54,0:04:31.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,our counter-disinformation\Nstrategy is very simple. Dialogue: 0,0:04:31.35,0:04:33.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's called "humor over rumor." Dialogue: 0,0:04:34.20,0:04:37.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So when there was a panic buying\Nof tissue paper, for example, Dialogue: 0,0:04:37.24,0:04:38.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was a rumor that says, Dialogue: 0,0:04:38.70,0:04:40.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Oh, we're ramping up mass production, Dialogue: 0,0:04:40.56,0:04:42.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's the same material as tissue papers, Dialogue: 0,0:04:42.50,0:04:44.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so we'll run out\Nof tissue paper soon." Dialogue: 0,0:04:44.90,0:04:48.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And our premier showed\Na very memetic picture Dialogue: 0,0:04:48.89,0:04:50.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that I simply have to share with you. Dialogue: 0,0:04:50.75,0:04:52.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In very large print, Dialogue: 0,0:04:52.14,0:04:54.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he shows his bottom, Dialogue: 0,0:04:54.65,0:04:56.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wiggling it a little bit, Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.86,0:04:58.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then the large print says Dialogue: 0,0:04:58.91,0:05:01.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Each of us only have\None pair of buttocks." Dialogue: 0,0:05:01.73,0:05:04.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And of course, the serious table shows Dialogue: 0,0:05:04.77,0:05:07.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that tissue paper came\Nfrom South American materials, Dialogue: 0,0:05:07.73,0:05:09.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and medical masks\Ncome from domestic materials, Dialogue: 0,0:05:09.97,0:05:12.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and there's no way that ramping up\Nproduction of one Dialogue: 0,0:05:12.44,0:05:14.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will hurt the production of the other. Dialogue: 0,0:05:14.82,0:05:16.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so that went absolutely viral. Dialogue: 0,0:05:16.87,0:05:19.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And because of that,\Nthe panic buying died down Dialogue: 0,0:05:19.25,0:05:20.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a day or two. Dialogue: 0,0:05:20.71,0:05:24.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And finally, we found out the person\Nwho spread the rumor in the first place Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.36,0:05:25.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was the tissue paper reseller. Dialogue: 0,0:05:25.82,0:05:28.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is not just\Na single shock point in social media. Dialogue: 0,0:05:28.58,0:05:29.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every single day, Dialogue: 0,0:05:29.76,0:05:31.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the daily press conference gets translated Dialogue: 0,0:05:31.80,0:05:34.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the spokesdog of the Ministry\Nof Health and Welfare, Dialogue: 0,0:05:34.48,0:05:36.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that translated a lot of things. Dialogue: 0,0:05:36.68,0:05:40.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,For example, our physical distancing\Nis phrased as saying Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.63,0:05:43.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"If you are outdoors,\Nyou need to keep two dog-lengths away, Dialogue: 0,0:05:43.75,0:05:46.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if you are indoor,\Nthree dog-lengths away," and so on. Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.82,0:05:48.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And hand sanitation rules, and so on. Dialogue: 0,0:05:48.89,0:05:50.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So because all this goes viral, Dialogue: 0,0:05:50.74,0:05:54.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we make sure that the factual humor\Nspreads faster than rumor. Dialogue: 0,0:05:54.05,0:05:56.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And they serve as a vaccine,\Nas inoculation, Dialogue: 0,0:05:56.68,0:05:58.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that when people see\Nthe conspiracy theories, Dialogue: 0,0:05:58.98,0:06:01.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the R0 value of that will be below one, Dialogue: 0,0:06:01.12,0:06:03.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,meaning that those ideas will not spread. Dialogue: 0,0:06:03.94,0:06:06.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I only have\Nthis five-minute briefing, Dialogue: 0,0:06:06.63,0:06:09.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the rest of it will be driven\Nby your Q and A, Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.10,0:06:10.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but please feel free to read more Dialogue: 0,0:06:10.74,0:06:13.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about Taiwan's\Ncounter-coronavirus strategy, Dialogue: 0,0:06:13.44,0:06:15.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at taiwancanhelp.us. Dialogue: 0,0:06:15.19,0:06:16.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you. Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.11,0:06:20.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: That's incredible. Dialogue: 0,0:06:20.81,0:06:25.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I love this "humor versus rumor." Dialogue: 0,0:06:26.22,0:06:28.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The problem here in the US, perhaps, Dialogue: 0,0:06:28.27,0:06:33.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that the rumors seem to travel\Nfaster than any response, Dialogue: 0,0:06:33.44,0:06:34.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whether humorous or not. Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.67,0:06:38.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you defeat that aspect in Taiwan? Dialogue: 0,0:06:39.53,0:06:41.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Yeah, we found that, of course, Dialogue: 0,0:06:41.69,0:06:45.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,humor implicitly means\Nthere is a sublimation Dialogue: 0,0:06:45.36,0:06:48.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of upsetness, of outrage. Dialogue: 0,0:06:48.96,0:06:52.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so as you see, for example,\Nin our premier's example, Dialogue: 0,0:06:52.96,0:06:55.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he makes fun of himself. Dialogue: 0,0:06:55.05,0:06:58.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He doesn't make a joke\Nat the expense of other people. Dialogue: 0,0:06:58.87,0:07:00.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this was the key. Dialogue: 0,0:07:00.38,0:07:02.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because people think it hilarious, Dialogue: 0,0:07:02.31,0:07:03.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they share it, Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.48,0:07:06.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but with no malicious or toxic intentions. Dialogue: 0,0:07:06.45,0:07:08.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People remember the actual payload, Dialogue: 0,0:07:08.40,0:07:11.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that table about materials\Nused to produce masks, Dialogue: 0,0:07:11.38,0:07:12.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,much more easily. Dialogue: 0,0:07:12.57,0:07:16.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If they make a joke\Nthat excludes parts of the society, Dialogue: 0,0:07:16.95,0:07:19.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of course, that part of society\Nwill feel outraged Dialogue: 0,0:07:19.57,0:07:21.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we will end up\Ncreating more divisiveness, Dialogue: 0,0:07:21.93,0:07:24.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,rather than prosocial behavior. Dialogue: 0,0:07:24.10,0:07:27.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the humor at no expense, Dialogue: 0,0:07:27.43,0:07:30.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not excluding any part of society, Dialogue: 0,0:07:30.17,0:07:31.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think that was the key. Dialogue: 0,0:07:33.85,0:07:35.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: It's also incredible Dialogue: 0,0:07:35.07,0:07:40.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because Taiwan has such close ties\Nto the origin point of this. Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.88,0:07:42.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: PRC, yes. Dialogue: 0,0:07:42.07,0:07:43.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: The mainland. Dialogue: 0,0:07:43.26,0:07:47.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So given those close economic ties, Dialogue: 0,0:07:47.23,0:07:51.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how do you survive\Nthat kind of disruption? Dialogue: 0,0:07:52.92,0:07:56.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Yeah, I mean, at this moment, Dialogue: 0,0:07:56.45,0:07:59.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's been almost a month now\Nwith no local confirmed cases, Dialogue: 0,0:07:59.91,0:08:01.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so we're doing fine. Dialogue: 0,0:08:01.16,0:08:02.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what we are doing, essentially, Dialogue: 0,0:08:02.86,0:08:06.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is just to respond faster\Nthan pretty much anyone. Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.66,0:08:09.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We started responding last year, Dialogue: 0,0:08:09.28,0:08:12.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,whereas pretty much everybody else\Nstarted responding this year. Dialogue: 0,0:08:12.65,0:08:15.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We tried to warn the world\Nlast year, but, anyway. Dialogue: 0,0:08:15.93,0:08:17.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So in any case, Dialogue: 0,0:08:17.11,0:08:19.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the point here is\Nthat if you start early enough, Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.87,0:08:23.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you get to make sure\Nthat the border control Dialogue: 0,0:08:23.38,0:08:28.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the main point where you quarantine\Nall the returning residents and so on, Dialogue: 0,0:08:28.85,0:08:31.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instead of waiting until\Nthe community spread stage, Dialogue: 0,0:08:31.81,0:08:35.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where even more human-right\Ninvading techniques Dialogue: 0,0:08:35.70,0:08:38.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,would probably have to be deployed\None way or the other. Dialogue: 0,0:08:38.43,0:08:41.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so in Taiwan, we've not declared\Nan emergency situation. Dialogue: 0,0:08:41.71,0:08:44.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're firmly under the constitutional law. Dialogue: 0,0:08:44.31,0:08:47.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because of that, every measure\Nthe administration is taking Dialogue: 0,0:08:47.12,0:08:49.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is also applicable\Nin non-coronavirus times. Dialogue: 0,0:08:49.63,0:08:51.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this forces us to innovate. Dialogue: 0,0:08:51.73,0:08:55.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Much as the idea of\N"we are an open liberal democracy" Dialogue: 0,0:08:56.02,0:08:58.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,prevented us from doing takedowns. Dialogue: 0,0:08:58.34,0:09:01.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And therefore, we have to innovate\Nof humor versus rumor, Dialogue: 0,0:09:01.56,0:09:04.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the easy path,\Nthe takedown of online speech, Dialogue: 0,0:09:04.29,0:09:06.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is not accessible to us. Dialogue: 0,0:09:06.31,0:09:09.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our design criteria,\Nwhich is no lockdowns, Dialogue: 0,0:09:09.50,0:09:13.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,also prevented us\Nfrom doing any, you know, Dialogue: 0,0:09:13.16,0:09:16.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very invasive privacy encroaching\Nresponse system. Dialogue: 0,0:09:16.53,0:09:18.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we have to innovate at the border, Dialogue: 0,0:09:18.41,0:09:21.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and make sure that we have\Na sufficient number of, for example, Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.42,0:09:23.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,quarantine hotels\Nor the so-called "digital fences," Dialogue: 0,0:09:23.90,0:09:28.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where your phone is basically connected\Nto the nearby telecoms, Dialogue: 0,0:09:28.55,0:09:33.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they make sure that if they go out\Nof the 15-meter or so radius, Dialogue: 0,0:09:33.37,0:09:38.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an SMS is sent to the local\Nhousehold managers or police and so on. Dialogue: 0,0:09:38.14,0:09:41.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But because we focus\Nall these measures at the border, Dialogue: 0,0:09:41.08,0:09:43.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the vast majority of people\Nlive a normal life. Dialogue: 0,0:09:45.27,0:09:47.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: Let's talk about that a little bit. Dialogue: 0,0:09:47.15,0:09:49.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So walk me through the digital tools Dialogue: 0,0:09:49.52,0:09:52.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how they were applied to COVID. Dialogue: 0,0:09:53.20,0:09:54.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Yes. Dialogue: 0,0:09:54.39,0:09:57.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's three parts\Nthat I just outlined. Dialogue: 0,0:09:57.82,0:10:00.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The first one is the collective\Nintelligence system. Dialogue: 0,0:10:00.91,0:10:02.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Through online spaces Dialogue: 0,0:10:02.43,0:10:06.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we design to be devoid\Nof Reply buttons, Dialogue: 0,0:10:06.41,0:10:09.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because we see that,\Nwhen there's Reply buttons, Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.25,0:10:13.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people focus on each other's\Nface part, not the book part, Dialogue: 0,0:10:13.47,0:10:15.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and without "Reply" buttons, Dialogue: 0,0:10:15.03,0:10:17.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can get collective intelligence Dialogue: 0,0:10:17.11,0:10:22.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,working out their rough consensus\Nof where the direction is going Dialogue: 0,0:10:22.18,0:10:23.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the response strategies. Dialogue: 0,0:10:23.81,0:10:25.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we use a lot of new technologies, Dialogue: 0,0:10:25.68,0:10:26.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such as Polis, Dialogue: 0,0:10:26.86,0:10:30.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is essentially a forum\Nthat lets you upvote and downvote Dialogue: 0,0:10:30.50,0:10:32.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,each other's feelings, Dialogue: 0,0:10:32.96,0:10:34.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but with real-time clustering, Dialogue: 0,0:10:34.95,0:10:37.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that if you go to cohack.tw, Dialogue: 0,0:10:37.66,0:10:39.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you see six such conversations, Dialogue: 0,0:10:39.76,0:10:42.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,talking about how to protect\Nthe most vulnerable people, Dialogue: 0,0:10:42.74,0:10:44.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to make a smooth transition, Dialogue: 0,0:10:44.37,0:10:47.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to make a fair\Ndistribution of supplies and so on. Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.84,0:10:50.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And people are free to voice their ideas, Dialogue: 0,0:10:50.32,0:10:52.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and upvote and downvote\Neach other's ideas. Dialogue: 0,0:10:52.65,0:10:56.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But the trick is that we show people\Nthe main divisive points, Dialogue: 0,0:10:56.46,0:10:57.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the main consensual points, Dialogue: 0,0:10:57.98,0:11:00.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we respond only to the ideas Dialogue: 0,0:11:00.30,0:11:03.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that can convince\Nall the different opinion groups. Dialogue: 0,0:11:03.08,0:11:07.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So people are encouraged\Nto post more eclectic, more nuanced ideas Dialogue: 0,0:11:07.04,0:11:10.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they discover,\Nat the end of this consultation, Dialogue: 0,0:11:10.35,0:11:12.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that everybody, actually,\Nagrees with most things, Dialogue: 0,0:11:12.71,0:11:15.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with most of their neighbors\Non most of the issues. Dialogue: 0,0:11:15.43,0:11:17.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that is what we call\Nthe social mandate, Dialogue: 0,0:11:17.92,0:11:19.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the democratic mandate, Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.36,0:11:23.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that then informs our development\Nof the counter-coronavirus strategy Dialogue: 0,0:11:23.32,0:11:25.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and helping the world with such tools. Dialogue: 0,0:11:25.94,0:11:27.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so this is the first part, Dialogue: 0,0:11:27.42,0:11:30.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's called listening at scale\Nfor rough consensus. Dialogue: 0,0:11:30.50,0:11:34.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The second part I already covered\Nis the distribute ledger, Dialogue: 0,0:11:34.06,0:11:36.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where everybody can go\Nto a nearby pharmacy, Dialogue: 0,0:11:36.33,0:11:40.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,present their NHI card,\Nbuy nine masks, or 10 if you're a child, Dialogue: 0,0:11:40.05,0:11:43.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and see the stock level\Nof that pharmacy on their phone Dialogue: 0,0:11:43.35,0:11:47.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually decreasing by nine or 10\Nin a couple of minutes. Dialogue: 0,0:11:47.05,0:11:49.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if they grow by nine or 10, Dialogue: 0,0:11:49.16,0:11:50.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of course, you call the 1922, Dialogue: 0,0:11:50.68,0:11:52.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and report something fishy is going on. Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.91,0:11:55.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But this is participatory accountability. Dialogue: 0,0:11:55.26,0:11:56.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is published every 30 seconds. Dialogue: 0,0:11:57.02,0:11:59.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So everybody holds each other accountable, Dialogue: 0,0:11:59.09,0:12:01.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that massively increases trust. Dialogue: 0,0:12:01.22,0:12:04.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And finally, the third one,\Nthe humor versus rumor, Dialogue: 0,0:12:04.58,0:12:07.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think the important thing to see here Dialogue: 0,0:12:07.43,0:12:10.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that wherever there's a trending\Ndisinformation or conspiracy theory, Dialogue: 0,0:12:10.99,0:12:13.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you respond to it with a humorous package Dialogue: 0,0:12:13.43,0:12:14.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within two hours. Dialogue: 0,0:12:14.72,0:12:17.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We have discovered,\Nif we respond within two hours, Dialogue: 0,0:12:17.51,0:12:21.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then more people see the vaccination\Nthan the conspiracy theory. Dialogue: 0,0:12:21.57,0:12:25.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But if you respond four hours\Nor a day afterwards, Dialogue: 0,0:12:25.28,0:12:26.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then that's a lost cause. Dialogue: 0,0:12:26.50,0:12:29.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You can't really counter that\Nusing humor anymore, Dialogue: 0,0:12:29.79,0:12:33.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you have to invite the person\Nwho spread those messages Dialogue: 0,0:12:33.18,0:12:34.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,into cocreation workshops. Dialogue: 0,0:12:34.81,0:12:36.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we're OK with that too. Dialogue: 0,0:12:37.81,0:12:39.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: Your speed is incredible. Dialogue: 0,0:12:39.30,0:12:42.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I see Whitney has joined us\Nwith some questions. Dialogue: 0,0:12:42.99,0:12:44.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Whitney Pennigton Rogers: That's right, Dialogue: 0,0:12:44.88,0:12:47.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have a few coming in already\Nfrom the audience. Dialogue: 0,0:12:47.26,0:12:48.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Hi there, Audrey. Dialogue: 0,0:12:48.46,0:12:52.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we'll start with one\Nfrom our community member Michael Backes. Dialogue: 0,0:12:52.16,0:12:56.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He asks how long has humor\Nversus rumor been a strategy Dialogue: 0,0:12:56.14,0:12:57.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you've implemented. Dialogue: 0,0:12:57.36,0:12:58.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Excuse me. Dialogue: 0,0:12:58.53,0:13:01.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"How long has humor versus rumor\Nstrategy been implemented? Dialogue: 0,0:13:01.34,0:13:05.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Were comedians consulted\Nto make the humor?" Dialogue: 0,0:13:05.71,0:13:06.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Yes, definitely. Dialogue: 0,0:13:06.93,0:13:10.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Comedians are our most\Ncherished colleagues. Dialogue: 0,0:13:10.42,0:13:15.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And each and every ministry has a team\Nof what we call participation officers Dialogue: 0,0:13:15.55,0:13:19.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in charge of engaging\Nwith trending topics. Dialogue: 0,0:13:19.31,0:13:22.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it's a more than 100\Npeople-strong team now. Dialogue: 0,0:13:22.06,0:13:24.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We meet every month\Nand also every couple of weeks Dialogue: 0,0:13:24.65,0:13:26.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on specific topics. Dialogue: 0,0:13:26.50,0:13:30.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's been like that since late 2016, Dialogue: 0,0:13:31.01,0:13:35.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's not until our previous\Nspokesperson, Kolas Yotaka, Dialogue: 0,0:13:35.20,0:13:37.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,joined about a year and a half ago, Dialogue: 0,0:13:37.89,0:13:40.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,do the professional comedians\Nget to the team. Dialogue: 0,0:13:40.44,0:13:46.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Previously, this was more about inviting\Nthe people who post, you know, Dialogue: 0,0:13:46.68,0:13:51.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,quotes like "Our tax filing system\Nis explosively hostile," Dialogue: 0,0:13:51.37,0:13:52.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and gets trending, Dialogue: 0,0:13:52.55,0:13:55.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and previously, the POs\Njust invited those people. Dialogue: 0,0:13:55.52,0:13:57.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everybody who complains Dialogue: 0,0:13:57.07,0:13:59.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the finance minister's\Ntax-filing experience Dialogue: 0,0:13:59.44,0:14:02.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,gets invited to the cocreation\Nof that tax filing experience. Dialogue: 0,0:14:02.44,0:14:03.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So previously, it was that. Dialogue: 0,0:14:03.77,0:14:06.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But Kolas Yotaka and the premier\NSu Tseng-chang said, Dialogue: 0,0:14:06.88,0:14:09.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,wouldn't it be much better\Nand reach more people Dialogue: 0,0:14:09.16,0:14:12.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,if we add some dogs to it\Nor cat's pictures to it? Dialogue: 0,0:14:12.40,0:14:14.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's been around\Nfor a year and a half. Dialogue: 0,0:14:16.72,0:14:20.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: Definitely, I think it makes\Na lot of difference, just even seeing them Dialogue: 0,0:14:20.34,0:14:23.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without being part\Nof the thought process behind that. Dialogue: 0,0:14:23.40,0:14:27.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we have another question here\Nfrom G. Ryan Ansin. Dialogue: 0,0:14:28.99,0:14:31.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,He asks, "What would you rank\Nthe level of trust Dialogue: 0,0:14:31.78,0:14:33.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,your community had before the pandemic, Dialogue: 0,0:14:33.72,0:14:35.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in order for the government\Nto have a chance Dialogue: 0,0:14:35.87,0:14:38.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at properly controlling this crisis?" Dialogue: 0,0:14:39.31,0:14:42.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: I would say that a community\Ntrusts each other. Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.05,0:14:44.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that is the main point\Nof digital democracy. Dialogue: 0,0:14:44.81,0:14:47.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is not about people\Ntrusting the government more. Dialogue: 0,0:14:47.59,0:14:50.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is about the government\Ntrusting the citizens more, Dialogue: 0,0:14:50.62,0:14:53.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,making the state transparent\Nto the citizen, Dialogue: 0,0:14:53.12,0:14:55.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not the citizen transparent to the state, Dialogue: 0,0:14:55.12,0:14:56.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which would be some other regime. Dialogue: 0,0:14:56.83,0:14:59.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So making the state\Ntransparent to the citizens Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.07,0:15:01.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doesn't always elicit more trust, Dialogue: 0,0:15:01.32,0:15:03.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because you may see something wrong,\Nsomething missing, Dialogue: 0,0:15:04.01,0:15:06.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,something exclusively hostile\Nto its user experience, Dialogue: 0,0:15:06.94,0:15:08.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an so on, of the state. Dialogue: 0,0:15:08.49,0:15:11.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So it doesn't necessarily lead\Nto more trust from the government. Dialogue: 0,0:15:11.78,0:15:13.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sorry, from the citizen to the government. Dialogue: 0,0:15:13.82,0:15:17.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it always leads to more trust\Nbetween the social sector stakeholders. Dialogue: 0,0:15:17.62,0:15:20.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I would say the level of trust\Nbetween the people Dialogue: 0,0:15:20.74,0:15:23.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are working on, for example, Dialogue: 0,0:15:23.30,0:15:25.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,medical officers, Dialogue: 0,0:15:25.65,0:15:28.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and people who are working\Nwith the pandemic responses, Dialogue: 0,0:15:29.01,0:15:30.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people who manufacture medical masks, Dialogue: 0,0:15:30.90,0:15:32.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so on, Dialogue: 0,0:15:32.09,0:15:33.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,all these people, Dialogue: 0,0:15:33.28,0:15:35.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the trust level between them is very high. Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.47,0:15:38.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And not necessarily\Nthey trust the government. Dialogue: 0,0:15:38.22,0:15:41.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we don't need that\Nfor a successful response. Dialogue: 0,0:15:41.69,0:15:43.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you ask a random person on the street, Dialogue: 0,0:15:43.73,0:15:47.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they will say Taiwan is performing so well\Nbecause of the people. Dialogue: 0,0:15:47.72,0:15:49.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When the CECC tells us to wear the mask, Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.92,0:15:51.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we wear the mask. Dialogue: 0,0:15:51.11,0:15:53.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When the CECC tells us not to wear a mask, Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.19,0:15:55.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, if you are keeping\Nphysical distance, Dialogue: 0,0:15:55.23,0:15:56.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we wear a mask anyway. Dialogue: 0,0:15:56.84,0:15:58.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so because of that, Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.25,0:16:02.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it's the social sector's trust\Nbetween those different stakeholders Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.32,0:16:04.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's the key to the response. Dialogue: 0,0:16:06.09,0:16:08.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: I will come back shortly\Nwith more questions, Dialogue: 0,0:16:08.60,0:16:11.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'll leave you guys\Nto continue your conversation. Dialogue: 0,0:16:11.36,0:16:12.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Awesome. Dialogue: 0,0:16:12.85,0:16:16.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: Well, clearly,\Npart of that trust in government Dialogue: 0,0:16:16.80,0:16:22.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was maybe not there in 2014\Nduring the Sunflower Movement. Dialogue: 0,0:16:22.46,0:16:24.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So talk to me about that Dialogue: 0,0:16:24.94,0:16:30.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how that led to this,\Nkind of, digital transformation. Dialogue: 0,0:16:31.54,0:16:32.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Indeed. Dialogue: 0,0:16:32.73,0:16:38.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Before March 2014, if you asked\Na random person on the street in Taiwan, Dialogue: 0,0:16:39.00,0:16:43.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like, whether it's possible\Nfor a minister -- that's me -- Dialogue: 0,0:16:43.38,0:16:46.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to have their office in a park,\Nliterally a park, Dialogue: 0,0:16:46.93,0:16:50.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anyone can walk in and talk to me\Nfor 40 minutes at a time, Dialogue: 0,0:16:50.27,0:16:53.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm currently in that park,\Nthe Social Innovation Lab, Dialogue: 0,0:16:53.14,0:16:55.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they would say that this is crazy, right? Dialogue: 0,0:16:55.18,0:16:57.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,No public officials work like that. Dialogue: 0,0:16:57.44,0:17:01.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that was because on March 18, 2014, Dialogue: 0,0:17:01.16,0:17:03.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,hundreds of young activists,\Nmost of them college students, Dialogue: 0,0:17:03.97,0:17:05.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,occupied the legislature Dialogue: 0,0:17:05.49,0:17:09.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to express their profound opposition\Nto a trade pact with Beijing Dialogue: 0,0:17:09.23,0:17:10.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,under consideration, Dialogue: 0,0:17:10.86,0:17:14.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the secretive manner in which\Nit was pushed through the parliament Dialogue: 0,0:17:14.68,0:17:16.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by Kuomintang,\Nthe ruling party at the time. Dialogue: 0,0:17:16.90,0:17:19.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so the protesters\Ndemanded, very simply, Dialogue: 0,0:17:19.03,0:17:20.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the pact be scraped, Dialogue: 0,0:17:20.59,0:17:24.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the government to institute\Na more transparent ratification process. Dialogue: 0,0:17:24.78,0:17:26.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that drew widespread public support. Dialogue: 0,0:17:26.92,0:17:29.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It ended a little more\Nthan three weeks later, Dialogue: 0,0:17:29.64,0:17:32.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,after the government promised and agreed Dialogue: 0,0:17:32.63,0:17:37.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the four demands [unclear]\Nof legislative oversight. Dialogue: 0,0:17:37.41,0:17:39.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,A poll released after the occupation Dialogue: 0,0:17:39.58,0:17:43.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,showed that more than 75 percent\Nremained dissatisfied Dialogue: 0,0:17:43.41,0:17:44.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the ruling government, Dialogue: 0,0:17:44.78,0:17:48.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,illustrating the crisis of trust\Nthat was caused by a trade deal dispute. Dialogue: 0,0:17:48.90,0:17:51.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And to heal this rift\Nand communicate better Dialogue: 0,0:17:51.33,0:17:52.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with everyday citizens, Dialogue: 0,0:17:52.57,0:17:56.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the administration reached out\Nto the people who supported the occupiers, Dialogue: 0,0:17:56.52,0:17:59.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for example, the g0v community, Dialogue: 0,0:17:59.33,0:18:02.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which has been seeking\Nto improve government transparency Dialogue: 0,0:18:02.03,0:18:04.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through the creation of open-source tools. Dialogue: 0,0:18:04.12,0:18:07.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, Jaclyn Tsai,\Na government minister at the time, Dialogue: 0,0:18:07.26,0:18:08.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,attended our hackathon Dialogue: 0,0:18:08.74,0:18:12.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and proposed the establishment\Nof novel platforms Dialogue: 0,0:18:12.11,0:18:15.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with the online community\Nto exchange policy ideas. Dialogue: 0,0:18:15.32,0:18:18.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And an experiment was born called vTaiwan, Dialogue: 0,0:18:18.36,0:18:21.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that pioneerly used tools such as Polis, Dialogue: 0,0:18:21.10,0:18:24.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that allows for "agree" or "disagree"\Nwith no Reply button, Dialogue: 0,0:18:24.54,0:18:28.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that gets people's rough consensus\Non issues such as crowdfunding, Dialogue: 0,0:18:28.95,0:18:31.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,equity-based crowdfunding, to be precise, Dialogue: 0,0:18:31.41,0:18:34.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,teleworking and many other\Ncyber-related legislation, Dialogue: 0,0:18:34.86,0:18:37.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of which there is no existing\Nunions or associations. Dialogue: 0,0:18:37.86,0:18:39.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it proved to be very successful. Dialogue: 0,0:18:39.85,0:18:42.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They solved the Uber problem, for example, Dialogue: 0,0:18:42.98,0:18:44.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and by now, you can call an Uber -- Dialogue: 0,0:18:44.86,0:18:47.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I just called an Uber this week -- Dialogue: 0,0:18:47.68,0:18:50.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but in any case,\Nthey are operating as taxis. Dialogue: 0,0:18:50.60,0:18:53.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They set up a local\Ntaxi company called Q Taxi, Dialogue: 0,0:18:53.83,0:18:57.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that was because on the platform,\Npeople cared about insurance, Dialogue: 0,0:18:57.69,0:18:59.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they care about registration, Dialogue: 0,0:18:59.17,0:19:03.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they care about all the sort of,\Nprotection of the passengers, and so on. Dialogue: 0,0:19:03.30,0:19:05.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we changed the taxi regulations, Dialogue: 0,0:19:05.96,0:19:08.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and now Uber is just another taxi company Dialogue: 0,0:19:08.86,0:19:10.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,along with the other co-ops. Dialogue: 0,0:19:11.87,0:19:14.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: So you're actually, in a way, Dialogue: 0,0:19:14.03,0:19:18.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,crowdsourcing laws\Nthat, well, then become laws. Dialogue: 0,0:19:19.46,0:19:22.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Yeah, learn more at crowd.law. Dialogue: 0,0:19:22.06,0:19:23.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a real website. Dialogue: 0,0:19:24.57,0:19:28.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: So, some might say\Nthat this seems easier, Dialogue: 0,0:19:28.71,0:19:31.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because Taiwan is an island, Dialogue: 0,0:19:31.56,0:19:34.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that maybe helps you control COVID, Dialogue: 0,0:19:34.77,0:19:36.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,helps promote social cohesion, Dialogue: 0,0:19:36.93,0:19:41.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,maybe it's a smaller country than some. Dialogue: 0,0:19:41.07,0:19:44.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Do you think that this could be\Nscaled beyond Taiwan? Dialogue: 0,0:19:46.18,0:19:47.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Well, first of all, Dialogue: 0,0:19:47.45,0:19:50.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,23 million people\Nis still quite some people. Dialogue: 0,0:19:50.22,0:19:51.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not a city, Dialogue: 0,0:19:51.78,0:19:56.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as some usually say, you know,\N"Taiwan is a city-state." Dialogue: 0,0:19:56.31,0:20:00.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, 23 million people,\Nnot quite a city-state. Dialogue: 0,0:20:00.03,0:20:01.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And what I'm trying to get at, Dialogue: 0,0:20:01.65,0:20:06.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that the high population density\Nand a variety of cultures -- Dialogue: 0,0:20:06.71,0:20:09.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we have more than 20 national languages -- Dialogue: 0,0:20:09.34,0:20:14.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,doesn't necessarily lead\Nto social cohesion, as you said. Dialogue: 0,0:20:14.23,0:20:19.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Rather, I think, this is the humbleness\Nof all the ministers Dialogue: 0,0:20:19.32,0:20:22.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the counter-coronavirus response. Dialogue: 0,0:20:22.08,0:20:27.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They all took on an attitude\Nof "So we learned about SARS" -- Dialogue: 0,0:20:27.30,0:20:30.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,many of them were in charge\Nof the SARS back then, Dialogue: 0,0:20:30.51,0:20:32.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that was classical epidemiology. Dialogue: 0,0:20:32.78,0:20:35.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is SARS 2.0,\Nit has different characteristics. Dialogue: 0,0:20:35.93,0:20:38.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the tools that we use\Nare very different, Dialogue: 0,0:20:38.10,0:20:39.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of the digital transformation. Dialogue: 0,0:20:39.96,0:20:43.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so we are in it to learn\Ntogether with the citizens. Dialogue: 0,0:20:43.34,0:20:46.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Our vice president at the time, Dialogue: 0,0:20:46.35,0:20:48.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Dr. Chen Chien-jen, an academician, Dialogue: 0,0:20:48.48,0:20:51.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,literally wrote the textbook\Non epidemiology. Dialogue: 0,0:20:51.70,0:20:54.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, he still says, Dialogue: 0,0:20:54.07,0:20:57.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"You know, what I'm going to do\Nis record an online MOOC, Dialogue: 0,0:20:57.28,0:20:59.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,a crash course on epidemiology, Dialogue: 0,0:20:59.27,0:21:00.49,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that shares with, Dialogue: 0,0:21:00.52,0:21:03.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think, more than 20,00 people\Nenrolled the first day, Dialogue: 0,0:21:03.16,0:21:04.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I was among them, Dialogue: 0,0:21:04.35,0:21:05.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to learn about important ideas, Dialogue: 0,0:21:05.86,0:21:10.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like the R0 and the basic transmission Dialogue: 0,0:21:10.12,0:21:12.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and how the various\Ndifferent measures work, Dialogue: 0,0:21:12.62,0:21:14.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and then they asked people to innovate. Dialogue: 0,0:21:14.82,0:21:19.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you think of a new way\Nthat the vice president did not think of, Dialogue: 0,0:21:19.43,0:21:20.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just call 1922, Dialogue: 0,0:21:20.74,0:21:23.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and your idea will become\Nthe next day's press conference. Dialogue: 0,0:21:23.92,0:21:26.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is this colearning strategy, Dialogue: 0,0:21:26.59,0:21:30.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think, that more than anything\Nenabled the social cohesion, Dialogue: 0,0:21:30.76,0:21:31.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as you speak. Dialogue: 0,0:21:31.99,0:21:35.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But this is more of a robust\Ncivil society than the uniformity. Dialogue: 0,0:21:35.86,0:21:38.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's no uniformity at all in Taiwan, Dialogue: 0,0:21:38.35,0:21:40.44,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everybody is entitled to their ideas, Dialogue: 0,0:21:40.46,0:21:41.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all the social innovations, Dialogue: 0,0:21:41.99,0:21:44.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,ranging from using\Na traditional rice cooker Dialogue: 0,0:21:44.49,0:21:47.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to revitalize, to disinfect the mask, Dialogue: 0,0:21:47.41,0:21:49.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to pink medical mask, and so on, Dialogue: 0,0:21:49.25,0:21:51.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there's all variety\Nof very interesting ideas Dialogue: 0,0:21:51.56,0:21:54.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that get amplified\Nby the daily press conference. Dialogue: 0,0:21:55.68,0:21:58.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: That's beautiful. Dialogue: 0,0:21:58.75,0:22:00.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Now -- oh, Whitney is back, Dialogue: 0,0:22:00.62,0:22:02.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so I will let her ask the next question. Dialogue: 0,0:22:04.29,0:22:06.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: Sure, we're having\Nsome more questions come in. Dialogue: 0,0:22:06.78,0:22:09.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One from our community member Aria Bendix. Dialogue: 0,0:22:09.67,0:22:14.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Aria asked, "How do you ensure\Nthat digital campaigns act quickly Dialogue: 0,0:22:14.05,0:22:15.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,without sacrificing accuracy? Dialogue: 0,0:22:15.85,0:22:19.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In the US, there was a fear\Nof inciting panic about COVID-19 Dialogue: 0,0:22:19.63,0:22:21.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in early January." Dialogue: 0,0:22:22.68,0:22:24.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: This is a great question. Dialogue: 0,0:22:24.80,0:22:31.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So most of the scientific ideas\Nabout the COVID are evolving, right? Dialogue: 0,0:22:32.05,0:22:36.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The efficacy of masks, for example,\Nis a very good example, Dialogue: 0,0:22:36.60,0:22:41.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because the different characteristics\Nof previous respiratory diseases Dialogue: 0,0:22:41.97,0:22:44.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,respond differently to the facial mask. Dialogue: 0,0:22:44.30,0:22:46.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, our digital campaigns Dialogue: 0,0:22:46.28,0:22:50.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,focus on the idea of getting\Nthe rough consensus through. Dialogue: 0,0:22:50.48,0:22:52.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So basically, it's a reflection\Nof the society, Dialogue: 0,0:22:52.76,0:22:56.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through Polis, through Slido,\Nthrough the joint platform, Dialogue: 0,0:22:56.61,0:22:59.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the various tools\Nthat vTaiwan has prototyped, Dialogue: 0,0:22:59.09,0:23:02.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we know that people are feeling\Na rough consensus about things Dialogue: 0,0:23:02.62,0:23:05.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we're responding\Nto the society, saying, Dialogue: 0,0:23:05.52,0:23:07.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"This is what you all feel Dialogue: 0,0:23:07.48,0:23:10.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and this is what we're doing\Nto respond to your feelings. Dialogue: 0,0:23:10.30,0:23:13.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And the scientific consensus\Nis still developing, Dialogue: 0,0:23:13.07,0:23:14.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we know, for example, Dialogue: 0,0:23:14.50,0:23:18.27,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,people feel that wearing a mask\Nmostly protects you, Dialogue: 0,0:23:18.29,0:23:20.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because it reminds you\Nto not touch your face Dialogue: 0,0:23:20.89,0:23:22.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and wash your hands properly." Dialogue: 0,0:23:22.47,0:23:24.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And these, regardless of everything else, Dialogue: 0,0:23:24.79,0:23:26.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are the two things\Nthat everybody agrees with. Dialogue: 0,0:23:26.97,0:23:29.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we just capitalize on that and say, Dialogue: 0,0:23:29.18,0:23:31.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"OK, wash your hands properly, Dialogue: 0,0:23:31.11,0:23:32.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and don't touch your face, Dialogue: 0,0:23:32.42,0:23:34.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and wearing a mask reminds you of that." Dialogue: 0,0:23:34.41,0:23:35.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that lets us cut through Dialogue: 0,0:23:35.93,0:23:39.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the kind of, very ideologically\Ncharged debates Dialogue: 0,0:23:39.17,0:23:43.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and focus on what people\Ngenerally resonate with one another. Dialogue: 0,0:23:43.20,0:23:46.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's how we act quickly\Nwithout sacrificing scientific accuracy. Dialogue: 0,0:23:49.01,0:23:52.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: And this next question\Nsort of feels connected to this as well. Dialogue: 0,0:23:52.56,0:23:55.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a question from an anonymous\Ncommunity member. Dialogue: 0,0:23:55.57,0:23:57.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Pragmatically, do you think\Nany of your policies Dialogue: 0,0:23:57.92,0:24:01.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could be applied in the United States\Nunder the current Trump administration?" Dialogue: 0,0:24:01.79,0:24:03.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Quite a few, actually. Dialogue: 0,0:24:03.07,0:24:07.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We work with many states\Nin the US and abroad Dialogue: 0,0:24:07.77,0:24:13.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on what we call "epicenter\Nto epicenter diplomacy." (Laughs) Dialogue: 0,0:24:13.37,0:24:16.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So what we're doing essentially is, Dialogue: 0,0:24:16.30,0:24:18.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for example,\Nthere was a chat bot in Taiwan Dialogue: 0,0:24:18.50,0:24:21.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that lets you, but especially\Npeople under home quarantine, Dialogue: 0,0:24:21.88,0:24:23.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to ask the chat bot anything. Dialogue: 0,0:24:23.97,0:24:26.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if there is a scientific adviser Dialogue: 0,0:24:26.77,0:24:29.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who already wrote\Na frequently asked question, Dialogue: 0,0:24:29.17,0:24:30.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the chat bot just responds with that, Dialogue: 0,0:24:30.96,0:24:34.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but otherwise, they will call\Nthe science advisory board Dialogue: 0,0:24:34.38,0:24:37.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and write an accessible response to that, Dialogue: 0,0:24:37.42,0:24:41.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the spokesdog would translate that\Ninto a cute dog meme. Dialogue: 0,0:24:41.45,0:24:43.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so this feedback cycle Dialogue: 0,0:24:43.27,0:24:47.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of people very easily accessing,\Nfinding, and asking a scientist, Dialogue: 0,0:24:47.48,0:24:50.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and an open API\Nthat allows for voice assistance Dialogue: 0,0:24:50.38,0:24:54.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and other third-party developers\Nto get through it, Dialogue: 0,0:24:54.35,0:24:56.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,resonates with many US states, Dialogue: 0,0:24:56.55,0:24:59.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think many of them\Nare implementing it. Dialogue: 0,0:24:59.48,0:25:03.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And before the World Health Assembly,\NI think three days before, Dialogue: 0,0:25:03.38,0:25:07.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we held a 14 countries\N[unclear] lateral meeting, Dialogue: 0,0:25:07.94,0:25:09.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,kind of, pre-WHA, Dialogue: 0,0:25:09.33,0:25:12.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where we shared many small,\Nlike, quick wins like this. Dialogue: 0,0:25:12.68,0:25:15.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think many jurisdictions\Ntook some of that, Dialogue: 0,0:25:15.89,0:25:17.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including the humor versus rumor. Dialogue: 0,0:25:17.62,0:25:18.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Many of them said Dialogue: 0,0:25:18.81,0:25:21.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that they're going to recruit\Ncomedians now. Dialogue: 0,0:25:21.47,0:25:23.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: (Laughs) I love that. Dialogue: 0,0:25:23.19,0:25:24.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: I hope so. Dialogue: 0,0:25:24.59,0:25:26.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: I hope so too. Dialogue: 0,0:25:26.41,0:25:29.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we have one more question,\Nwhich is actually a follow-up, Dialogue: 0,0:25:29.31,0:25:31.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from Michael Backes,\Nwho asked a question earlier. Dialogue: 0,0:25:31.97,0:25:35.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Does the Ministry plan\Nto publish their plans in a white paper?" Dialogue: 0,0:25:35.05,0:25:37.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sounds like you're already sharing\Nyour plans with folks, Dialogue: 0,0:25:37.83,0:25:40.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but do you have a plan\Nto put it out on paper? Dialogue: 0,0:25:40.21,0:25:41.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Of course. Dialogue: 0,0:25:41.44,0:25:43.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Yeah, and multiple white papers. Dialogue: 0,0:25:43.06,0:25:47.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if you go to taiwancanhelp.us, Dialogue: 0,0:25:47.49,0:25:50.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that is where most of our strategy is, Dialogue: 0,0:25:50.12,0:25:53.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that website is actually\Ncrowdsourced as well, Dialogue: 0,0:25:53.68,0:25:56.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it shows that more\Nthan five million now, I think, Dialogue: 0,0:25:56.60,0:26:00.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,medical masks donated\Nto the humanitarian aid. Dialogue: 0,0:26:00.27,0:26:01.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's also crowdsourced. Dialogue: 0,0:26:01.79,0:26:05.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,People who have some masks in their homes, Dialogue: 0,0:26:05.03,0:26:08.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who did not collect the rationed masks, Dialogue: 0,0:26:08.05,0:26:09.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they can use an app, say, Dialogue: 0,0:26:09.35,0:26:12.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"I want to dedicate this\Nto international humanitarian aid," Dialogue: 0,0:26:12.84,0:26:15.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and half of them choose\Nto publish their names, Dialogue: 0,0:26:16.01,0:26:19.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so you can also see the names\Nof people who participated in this. Dialogue: 0,0:26:19.33,0:26:22.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And there's also\Nan "Ask Taiwan Anything" website, Dialogue: 0,0:26:22.06,0:26:23.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughs) Dialogue: 0,0:26:23.58,0:26:26.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,at fightcovid.edu.tw, Dialogue: 0,0:26:26.82,0:26:30.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that outlines, in white paper form,\Nall the response strategies, Dialogue: 0,0:26:30.53,0:26:32.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so check those out. Dialogue: 0,0:26:33.14,0:26:34.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: Great. Dialogue: 0,0:26:34.33,0:26:37.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, I will disappear and be back\Nlater with some other questions. Dialogue: 0,0:26:38.93,0:26:42.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: A blizzard\Nof white papers, if you will. Dialogue: 0,0:26:42.18,0:26:46.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'd like to turn the focus\Non you a little bit. Dialogue: 0,0:26:46.75,0:26:52.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How does a conservative anarchist\Nbecome a digital minister? Dialogue: 0,0:26:53.47,0:26:56.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Yeah, by occupying\Nthe parliament, and through that. Dialogue: 0,0:26:56.97,0:26:57.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughs) Dialogue: 0,0:26:57.100,0:26:59.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,More interestingly, Dialogue: 0,0:26:59.20,0:27:03.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I would say that I go\Nworking with the government, Dialogue: 0,0:27:03.24,0:27:05.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but never for the government. Dialogue: 0,0:27:05.11,0:27:07.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I work with the people,\Nnot for the people. Dialogue: 0,0:27:07.80,0:27:10.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I'm like this Lagrange point Dialogue: 0,0:27:10.49,0:27:13.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between the people's\Nmovements on one side Dialogue: 0,0:27:13.24,0:27:15.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the government on the other side. Dialogue: 0,0:27:16.40,0:27:18.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sometimes right in the middle, Dialogue: 0,0:27:18.19,0:27:20.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to do some coach\Nor translation work. Dialogue: 0,0:27:20.39,0:27:22.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Sometimes in a kind of triangle point, Dialogue: 0,0:27:22.98,0:27:28.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,trying to supply both sides with tools\Nfor prosocial communication. Dialogue: 0,0:27:28.32,0:27:30.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But always with this idea Dialogue: 0,0:27:30.92,0:27:35.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of getting the shared values\Nout of different positions, Dialogue: 0,0:27:35.05,0:27:36.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,out of varied positions. Dialogue: 0,0:27:36.60,0:27:37.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because all too often, Dialogue: 0,0:27:37.88,0:27:41.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,democracy is built as a showdown\Nbetween opposing values. Dialogue: 0,0:27:41.35,0:27:44.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But in the pandemic, in the infodemic, Dialogue: 0,0:27:44.40,0:27:45.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in climate change, Dialogue: 0,0:27:45.84,0:27:47.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in many of those structural issues, Dialogue: 0,0:27:47.94,0:27:52.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the virus or carbon dioxide\Ndoesn't sit down and negotiate with you. Dialogue: 0,0:27:52.22,0:27:55.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's a structural issue\Nthat requires common values Dialogue: 0,0:27:55.93,0:27:57.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,built out of different positions. Dialogue: 0,0:27:57.59,0:28:03.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so that is why my working principle\Nis radical transparency. Dialogue: 0,0:28:03.05,0:28:05.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Every conversation, including this one, Dialogue: 0,0:28:05.25,0:28:06.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is on the record, Dialogue: 0,0:28:06.45,0:28:08.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,including the internal\Nmeetings that I hold. Dialogue: 0,0:28:08.63,0:28:11.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So you can see all the different\Nmeeting transcripts Dialogue: 0,0:28:12.02,0:28:14.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in my YouTube channel,\Nin the SayIt platform, Dialogue: 0,0:28:14.98,0:28:17.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where people can see,\Nafter I became digital minister, Dialogue: 0,0:28:17.57,0:28:21.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I held 1,300 meetings\Nwith more than 5,000 speakers, Dialogue: 0,0:28:21.08,0:28:24.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with more than 260,000 utterances. Dialogue: 0,0:28:24.82,0:28:27.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And every one of them has a URL Dialogue: 0,0:28:27.65,0:28:31.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that becomes a social object\Nthat people can have a conversation on. Dialogue: 0,0:28:31.04,0:28:32.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And because of that, Dialogue: 0,0:28:32.29,0:28:37.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for example, when Uber's David Plouffe\Nvisited me to lobby for Uber, Dialogue: 0,0:28:37.86,0:28:39.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of radical transparency, Dialogue: 0,0:28:39.42,0:28:41.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,he is very much aware of that, Dialogue: 0,0:28:41.65,0:28:44.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and so he made all the arguments\Nbased on public good, Dialogue: 0,0:28:44.22,0:28:46.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,based on sustainability,\Nand things like that, Dialogue: 0,0:28:46.46,0:28:50.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because he knows that the other sides\Nwould see his positions Dialogue: 0,0:28:50.42,0:28:52.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,very clearly and transparently. Dialogue: 0,0:28:52.27,0:28:55.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So that encourages people\Nto add on each other's argument, Dialogue: 0,0:28:55.42,0:28:58.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instead of attacking each other's person, Dialogue: 0,0:28:58.34,0:29:00.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you know, credits and things like that. Dialogue: 0,0:29:00.33,0:29:02.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so I think that, more than anything, Dialogue: 0,0:29:02.27,0:29:06.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is the main principle of conserving\Nthe anarchism of the internet, Dialogue: 0,0:29:06.59,0:29:07.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which is about, you know, Dialogue: 0,0:29:07.83,0:29:11.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nobody can force anyone\Nto hook to the internet, Dialogue: 0,0:29:11.18,0:29:13.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or to adhere to a new internet protocol. Dialogue: 0,0:29:13.56,0:29:17.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Everything has to be done\Nusing rough consensus and running code. Dialogue: 0,0:29:18.65,0:29:21.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: I wish you had more counterparts\Nall around the world. Dialogue: 0,0:29:22.01,0:29:24.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Maybe you wish you had more\Ncounterparts all around the world. Dialogue: 0,0:29:25.34,0:29:27.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: That's why these ideas\Nare worth spreading. Dialogue: 0,0:29:28.08,0:29:29.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: There you go. Dialogue: 0,0:29:29.27,0:29:35.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So one of the challenges that might arise\Nwith some of these digital tools Dialogue: 0,0:29:35.38,0:29:36.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is access. Dialogue: 0,0:29:36.75,0:29:39.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you approach that part of it Dialogue: 0,0:29:39.17,0:29:43.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for folks maybe who don't have\Nthe best broadband connection Dialogue: 0,0:29:43.43,0:29:48.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or the latest mobile phone\Nor whatever it might be that's required? Dialogue: 0,0:29:49.57,0:29:51.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Well, anywhere in Taiwan, Dialogue: 0,0:29:51.29,0:29:54.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,even on the top of Taiwan,\Nalmost 4,000 meters high, Dialogue: 0,0:29:54.80,0:29:56.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the Saviah, or the Jade Mountain, Dialogue: 0,0:29:56.88,0:30:00.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you're guaranteed to have\N10 megabits per second Dialogue: 0,0:30:00.07,0:30:02.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,over 4G or fiber or cable, Dialogue: 0,0:30:02.32,0:30:06.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with just 16 US dollars\Na month, an unlimited plan. Dialogue: 0,0:30:06.92,0:30:10.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And actually, on the top\Nof the mountain, it's faster, Dialogue: 0,0:30:10.22,0:30:12.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,fewer people use that bandwidth. Dialogue: 0,0:30:12.23,0:30:14.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if you don't, it's my fault. Dialogue: 0,0:30:14.05,0:30:15.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's personally my fault. Dialogue: 0,0:30:15.31,0:30:17.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In Taiwan, we have broadband\Nas a human right. Dialogue: 0,0:30:17.98,0:30:19.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so when we're deploying 5G, Dialogue: 0,0:30:19.96,0:30:23.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're looking at places\Nwhere the 4G has the weakest signal, Dialogue: 0,0:30:23.15,0:30:27.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we begin with those places\Nin our 5G deployment. Dialogue: 0,0:30:27.04,0:30:30.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And only by deploying broadband\Nas a human right Dialogue: 0,0:30:30.12,0:30:33.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,can we say that this is for everybody. Dialogue: 0,0:30:33.09,0:30:36.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That digital democracy\Nactually strengthens democracy. Dialogue: 0,0:30:36.46,0:30:39.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Otherwise, we would be excluding\Nparts of the society. Dialogue: 0,0:30:39.61,0:30:41.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this also applies to, for example, Dialogue: 0,0:30:41.48,0:30:43.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can go to a local\Ndigital opportunity center Dialogue: 0,0:30:43.86,0:30:45.64,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to rent a tablet that's guaranteed Dialogue: 0,0:30:45.67,0:30:47.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to be manufactured\Nin the past three years, Dialogue: 0,0:30:47.99,0:30:49.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and things like that, Dialogue: 0,0:30:49.21,0:30:51.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to enable, also,\Nthe different digital access Dialogue: 0,0:30:51.85,0:30:56.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by the digital opportunity centers,\Nuniversities and schools, Dialogue: 0,0:30:56.12,0:30:58.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and public libraries, very important. Dialogue: 0,0:30:58.40,0:31:01.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And if people who prefer to talk\Nin their town hall, Dialogue: 0,0:31:01.65,0:31:06.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I personally go to that town hall\Nwith a 360 recorder, Dialogue: 0,0:31:06.21,0:31:09.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and livestream that to Taipei\Nand to other municipalities, Dialogue: 0,0:31:09.50,0:31:12.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where the central government's\Npublic servants can join Dialogue: 0,0:31:12.12,0:31:13.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in a connected room style, Dialogue: 0,0:31:13.85,0:31:16.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but listening to the local people\Nwho set the agenda. Dialogue: 0,0:31:16.53,0:31:19.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So people still do face-to-face meetings, Dialogue: 0,0:31:19.17,0:31:21.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we're not doing this\Nto replace face-to-face meetings. Dialogue: 0,0:31:21.76,0:31:23.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We're bringing more stakeholders Dialogue: 0,0:31:23.55,0:31:26.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from central government\Nin the local town halls, Dialogue: 0,0:31:26.16,0:31:28.08,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and we're amplifying their voices Dialogue: 0,0:31:28.10,0:31:31.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by making sure the transcripts,\Nthe mind maps, and things like that Dialogue: 0,0:31:31.31,0:31:33.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are spread through\Nthe internet in real time, Dialogue: 0,0:31:33.99,0:31:36.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but we don't ever ask the elderly to, say, Dialogue: 0,0:31:36.80,0:31:39.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Oh, you have to learn typing,\Notherwise you don't do democracy." Dialogue: 0,0:31:39.94,0:31:41.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's not our style. Dialogue: 0,0:31:41.13,0:31:42.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But that requires broadband. Dialogue: 0,0:31:42.50,0:31:45.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Because if you don't have broadband,\Nbut only a very limited bandwidth, Dialogue: 0,0:31:45.98,0:31:48.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you are forced to use\Ntext-based communication. Dialogue: 0,0:31:48.52,0:31:49.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: That's right. Dialogue: 0,0:31:49.78,0:31:51.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, with access, of course, Dialogue: 0,0:31:51.24,0:31:55.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,comes access for folks\Nwho maybe will misuse the platform. Dialogue: 0,0:31:55.59,0:31:58.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You talked a little bit\Nabout disinformation Dialogue: 0,0:31:58.13,0:31:59.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and using humor to beat rumor. Dialogue: 0,0:31:59.89,0:32:04.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But sometimes, disinformation\Nis more weaponized. Dialogue: 0,0:32:04.92,0:32:09.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,How do you combat those kinds\Nof attacks, really? Dialogue: 0,0:32:10.10,0:32:12.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Right, so you mean\Nmalinformation, then. Dialogue: 0,0:32:12.81,0:32:18.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So essentially, information designed\Nto cause intentional public harm. Dialogue: 0,0:32:18.89,0:32:22.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's no laughing matter. Dialogue: 0,0:32:22.20,0:32:26.71,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So for that, we have an idea called\N"notice and public notice." Dialogue: 0,0:32:26.74,0:32:29.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So this is a Reuters photo, Dialogue: 0,0:32:29.14,0:32:31.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I will read the original caption. Dialogue: 0,0:32:31.38,0:32:32.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The original caption says Dialogue: 0,0:32:32.66,0:32:35.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"A teenage extradition bill\Nprotester in Hong Kong Dialogue: 0,0:32:35.100,0:32:40.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is seen during a march to demand democracy\Nand political reform in Hong Kong." Dialogue: 0,0:32:40.19,0:32:42.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,OK, a very neutral title by the Reuters. Dialogue: 0,0:32:42.87,0:32:46.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But there was a spreading\Nof a malinformation Dialogue: 0,0:32:46.100,0:32:48.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,back last November, Dialogue: 0,0:32:48.87,0:32:50.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just leading to our presidential election, Dialogue: 0,0:32:50.93,0:32:53.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that shows something else entirely. Dialogue: 0,0:32:53.04,0:32:55.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the same photo -- that says Dialogue: 0,0:32:55.60,0:32:58.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"This 13-year-old thug bought new iPhones, Dialogue: 0,0:32:58.61,0:33:00.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,game consoles and brand-name sports shoes, Dialogue: 0,0:33:00.68,0:33:03.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and recruiting his brothers\Nto murder police Dialogue: 0,0:33:03.42,0:33:06.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and collect 200,000 dollars." Dialogue: 0,0:33:06.64,0:33:10.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this, of course, is a weapon\Ndesigned to sow discord, Dialogue: 0,0:33:10.48,0:33:15.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and to elicit in Taiwan's voters\Na kind of distaste for Hong Kong. Dialogue: 0,0:33:15.92,0:33:19.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And because they know\Nthat this is the main issue. Dialogue: 0,0:33:19.07,0:33:21.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And had we resorted to takedowns, Dialogue: 0,0:33:21.71,0:33:22.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that will not work, Dialogue: 0,0:33:22.94,0:33:25.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because that would only\Nevoke more outrage. Dialogue: 0,0:33:25.11,0:33:26.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we didn't do a takedown. Dialogue: 0,0:33:26.57,0:33:28.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Instead, we worked with the fact checkers Dialogue: 0,0:33:28.63,0:33:30.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and professional journalists Dialogue: 0,0:33:30.05,0:33:35.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to attribute this original message\Nback to the first day that it was posted. Dialogue: 0,0:33:35.25,0:33:37.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it came from Zhongyang Zhengfawei. Dialogue: 0,0:33:37.70,0:33:44.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That is the main political and legal unit\Nof the central party, Dialogue: 0,0:33:44.47,0:33:46.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the Central Communist Party, in CCP. Dialogue: 0,0:33:46.68,0:33:52.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And we know that it's their Weibo account\Nthat first did this new caption. Dialogue: 0,0:33:52.08,0:33:54.25,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So we sent out a public notice Dialogue: 0,0:33:54.28,0:33:56.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and with the partners\Nin social media companies, Dialogue: 0,0:33:56.66,0:33:58.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,pretty much all of them, Dialogue: 0,0:33:58.20,0:34:00.94,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they just put this very small reminder Dialogue: 0,0:34:00.96,0:34:04.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,next to each time that this is shared\Nwith the wrong caption, Dialogue: 0,0:34:04.52,0:34:08.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that says "This actually came\Nfrom the central propaganda unit Dialogue: 0,0:34:08.48,0:34:09.67,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of the CCP. Dialogue: 0,0:34:09.70,0:34:12.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Click here to learn more.\NTo learn about the whole story." Dialogue: 0,0:34:12.62,0:34:14.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that, we found, that has worked, Dialogue: 0,0:34:14.99,0:34:18.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because people understand\Nthis is then not a news material. Dialogue: 0,0:34:18.56,0:34:22.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is rather an appropriation\Nof Reuters' news material Dialogue: 0,0:34:22.14,0:34:23.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and a copyright infringement Dialogue: 0,0:34:23.82,0:34:26.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I think that's part of the [unclear]. Dialogue: 0,0:34:26.08,0:34:28.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In any case, the point\Nis that when people understand Dialogue: 0,0:34:28.77,0:34:30.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that this is an intentional narrative, Dialogue: 0,0:34:30.62,0:34:32.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they won't just randomly share it. Dialogue: 0,0:34:32.57,0:34:35.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,They may share it,\Nbut with a comment that says Dialogue: 0,0:34:35.16,0:34:40.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"This is what the Zhongyang Zhengfawei\Nis trying to do to our democracy." Dialogue: 0,0:34:42.18,0:34:46.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: Seems like some\Nof the global social media companies Dialogue: 0,0:34:46.50,0:34:50.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,could learn something\Nfrom notice and public notice. Dialogue: 0,0:34:50.56,0:34:52.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Public notice, that's right. Dialogue: 0,0:34:52.18,0:34:55.04,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: What advice would you have Dialogue: 0,0:34:55.06,0:35:00.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,for the Twitters and Facebooks\Nand LINEs and WhatsApps, Dialogue: 0,0:35:00.40,0:35:02.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and you name it, of the world? Dialogue: 0,0:35:04.20,0:35:05.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Yeah. Dialogue: 0,0:35:05.41,0:35:08.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, just before our election, Dialogue: 0,0:35:08.68,0:35:10.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we said to all of them Dialogue: 0,0:35:10.50,0:35:15.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we're not making a law\Nto kind of punish them. Dialogue: 0,0:35:15.71,0:35:18.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,However, we're sharing\Nthis very simple fact Dialogue: 0,0:35:18.79,0:35:20.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there is this norm in Taiwan Dialogue: 0,0:35:20.99,0:35:23.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that we even have a separate branch\Nof the government, Dialogue: 0,0:35:23.57,0:35:24.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the control branch, Dialogue: 0,0:35:24.79,0:35:28.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that published the campaign\Ndonation and expense. Dialogue: 0,0:35:28.38,0:35:30.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And it just so occurred to us Dialogue: 0,0:35:30.56,0:35:33.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that in the previous election,\Nthe mayoral one, Dialogue: 0,0:35:33.96,0:35:35.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was a lot of candidates Dialogue: 0,0:35:35.38,0:35:38.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that did not include\Nany social media advertisements Dialogue: 0,0:35:38.08,0:35:40.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in their expense to the Control Yuan. Dialogue: 0,0:35:40.12,0:35:44.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so essentially, that means\Nthat there is a separate amount Dialogue: 0,0:35:44.23,0:35:48.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of political donation and expense\Nthat evades public scrutiny. Dialogue: 0,0:35:48.87,0:35:51.07,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And our Control Yuan\Npublished their numbers Dialogue: 0,0:35:51.09,0:35:52.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in raw data form, Dialogue: 0,0:35:52.34,0:35:53.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,[unclear] they're not statistics, Dialogue: 0,0:35:53.99,0:35:57.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but individual records\Nof who donated for what cause, Dialogue: 0,0:35:57.61,0:35:58.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when, where, Dialogue: 0,0:35:58.78,0:36:01.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and investigative journalists\Nare very happy, Dialogue: 0,0:36:01.27,0:36:03.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they can then make\Ninvestigative reports Dialogue: 0,0:36:03.86,0:36:06.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about the connections\Nbetween the candidates Dialogue: 0,0:36:06.16,0:36:07.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the people who fund them. Dialogue: 0,0:36:07.62,0:36:09.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But they cannot work\Nwith the same material Dialogue: 0,0:36:09.96,0:36:11.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,from the global social media companies. Dialogue: 0,0:36:11.98,0:36:14.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I said, "Look, this is very simple. Dialogue: 0,0:36:14.38,0:36:15.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,This is the social norm here, Dialogue: 0,0:36:15.80,0:36:17.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I don't really care\Nabout other jurisdictions. Dialogue: 0,0:36:18.00,0:36:21.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You either adhere to the social norm\Nthat is set by the Control Yuan Dialogue: 0,0:36:21.84,0:36:23.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the investigative journalists, Dialogue: 0,0:36:23.53,0:36:25.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or maybe you will face social sanctions. Dialogue: 0,0:36:25.92,0:36:28.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is not the government mandate, Dialogue: 0,0:36:28.18,0:36:32.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but it's the people fed up with,\Nyou know, black box, Dialogue: 0,0:36:32.08,0:36:35.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that's part of the Sunflower\NOccupy's demands, also. Dialogue: 0,0:36:35.93,0:36:39.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so Facebook actually published\Nin the Ad Library, Dialogue: 0,0:36:39.90,0:36:45.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think at that time,\None of the fastest response strategies, Dialogue: 0,0:36:45.04,0:36:51.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where everybody who has\Nbasically any dark pattern advertisement Dialogue: 0,0:36:51.08,0:36:52.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,will get revealed very quickly, Dialogue: 0,0:36:52.96,0:36:56.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and investigative journalists\Nwork with the local civic technologists Dialogue: 0,0:36:56.42,0:37:01.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make sure that if anybody dare to use\Nsocial media in such a divisive way, Dialogue: 0,0:37:01.25,0:37:05.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,within an hour, there will be\Na report out condemning that. Dialogue: 0,0:37:05.33,0:37:09.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So nobody tried that during\Nthe previous presidential election season. Dialogue: 0,0:37:09.50,0:37:11.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: So change is possible. Dialogue: 0,0:37:12.20,0:37:13.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Mhm. Dialogue: 0,0:37:15.94,0:37:18.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: Hey there, we have\Nsome more questions from the community. Dialogue: 0,0:37:18.94,0:37:21.19,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is an anonymous one Dialogue: 0,0:37:21.21,0:37:25.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that says, "I believe Taiwan\Nis outside WHO entirely Dialogue: 0,0:37:25.73,0:37:28.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and has a 130-part preparation program -- Dialogue: 0,0:37:28.81,0:37:30.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,developed entirely on its own -- Dialogue: 0,0:37:30.60,0:37:33.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to what extent does it credit\Nits preparation Dialogue: 0,0:37:33.03,0:37:34.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to building its own system?" Dialogue: 0,0:37:36.17,0:37:39.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Well, a little bit, I guess. Dialogue: 0,0:37:39.90,0:37:42.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We tried to warn the WHO, Dialogue: 0,0:37:42.93,0:37:44.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but at that point -- Dialogue: 0,0:37:44.15,0:37:47.95,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we are not totally outside,\Nwe have limited scientific access. Dialogue: 0,0:37:47.97,0:37:50.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But we do not have any ministerial access. Dialogue: 0,0:37:50.55,0:37:52.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And this is very different, right? Dialogue: 0,0:37:52.20,0:37:54.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you only have limited\Nscientific access, Dialogue: 0,0:37:54.79,0:38:00.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,unless the other side's top epidemiologist\Nhappens to be the vice president, Dialogue: 0,0:38:00.70,0:38:02.72,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like in Taiwan's case, Dialogue: 0,0:38:02.74,0:38:06.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they don't always do\Nthe storytelling well enough Dialogue: 0,0:38:06.54,0:38:10.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to translate that into political action\Nas our vice president did, right? Dialogue: 0,0:38:10.59,0:38:13.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the lack of ministerial\Naccess, I think, Dialogue: 0,0:38:13.15,0:38:16.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is to the detriment\Nof the global community, Dialogue: 0,0:38:16.04,0:38:19.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because otherwise,\Npeople could have responded as we did Dialogue: 0,0:38:19.36,0:38:20.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the first day of January, Dialogue: 0,0:38:20.82,0:38:24.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instead of having to wait for weeks Dialogue: 0,0:38:24.04,0:38:27.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,before the WHO declared\Nthat this is something, Dialogue: 0,0:38:27.73,0:38:30.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's definitely\Nhuman to human transmission, Dialogue: 0,0:38:30.18,0:38:32.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you should inspect people\Ncoming in from Wuhan, Dialogue: 0,0:38:32.87,0:38:34.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which they eventually did, Dialogue: 0,0:38:34.41,0:38:37.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that's already two weeks\Nor three weeks after what we did. Dialogue: 0,0:38:40.25,0:38:41.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: Makes a lot of sense. Dialogue: 0,0:38:41.60,0:38:45.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: More scientists\Nand technologists in politics. Dialogue: 0,0:38:45.04,0:38:46.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That sounds like that's the answer. Dialogue: 0,0:38:47.23,0:38:48.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Yeah. Dialogue: 0,0:38:50.63,0:38:54.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: And then we have another\Nquestion here from Kamal Srinivasan Dialogue: 0,0:38:54.24,0:38:55.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,about your reopening strategy. Dialogue: 0,0:38:55.79,0:39:00.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"How are you enabling restaurants\Nand retailers to open safely in Taiwan?" Dialogue: 0,0:39:00.97,0:39:03.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Oh, they never closed, so ... (Laughs) Dialogue: 0,0:39:03.39,0:39:04.86,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: Oh! Dialogue: 0,0:39:04.89,0:39:06.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Yeah, they never closed, Dialogue: 0,0:39:06.26,0:39:09.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was no lockdown,\Nthere was no closure. Dialogue: 0,0:39:09.41,0:39:12.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,We just said a very simple thing\Nin the CECC press conference, Dialogue: 0,0:39:12.91,0:39:15.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that there's going to be\Nphysical distancing. Dialogue: 0,0:39:15.16,0:39:17.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You maintain one and a half meters indoors Dialogue: 0,0:39:17.24,0:39:18.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or wear a mask. Dialogue: 0,0:39:18.41,0:39:19.59,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And that's it. Dialogue: 0,0:39:19.62,0:39:24.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so there are some restaurants\Nthat put up, I guess, red curtains, Dialogue: 0,0:39:24.30,0:39:28.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some put very cute teddy bears\Nand so on, on the chairs, Dialogue: 0,0:39:28.65,0:39:30.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to make sure that people spread evenly, Dialogue: 0,0:39:31.01,0:39:37.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,some installed see-through\Nglass or plastic walls Dialogue: 0,0:39:37.26,0:39:38.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,between the seats. Dialogue: 0,0:39:38.69,0:39:41.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There's various social\Ninnovations happening around. Dialogue: 0,0:39:41.92,0:39:46.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And I think the only shops\Nthat got closed for a while, Dialogue: 0,0:39:46.54,0:39:51.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because they could not innovate\Nquick enough to respond to these rules, Dialogue: 0,0:39:51.51,0:39:54.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,was the intimate escort bars. Dialogue: 0,0:39:54.30,0:39:57.76,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But eventually,\Neven they invented new ways, Dialogue: 0,0:39:57.78,0:40:02.38,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,by handing out these caps\Nthat are plastic shielding, Dialogue: 0,0:40:02.41,0:40:05.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but still leaves room\Nfor drinking behind it. Dialogue: 0,0:40:05.77,0:40:08.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so they opened\Nwith that social innovation. Dialogue: 0,0:40:10.48,0:40:12.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: That's amazing. Dialogue: 0,0:40:12.19,0:40:16.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: It is, yeah, it's a lot to learn\Nfrom your strategies there. Dialogue: 0,0:40:16.72,0:40:20.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you, I'll be back towards the end\Nwith some final questions. Dialogue: 0,0:40:22.00,0:40:25.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: I'm very happy to hear\Nthat the restaurants were not closed down, Dialogue: 0,0:40:25.89,0:40:30.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because I think Taipei\Nhas some of the best food in the world Dialogue: 0,0:40:30.30,0:40:33.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,of any city that I've visited, Dialogue: 0,0:40:33.35,0:40:36.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so, you know, kudos to you for that. Dialogue: 0,0:40:38.25,0:40:44.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So the big concern when it comes\Nto using digital tools for COVID Dialogue: 0,0:40:44.82,0:40:47.15,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or using digital tools for democracy Dialogue: 0,0:40:47.18,0:40:49.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is always privacy. Dialogue: 0,0:40:49.68,0:40:52.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,You've talked about that a little bit, Dialogue: 0,0:40:53.01,0:40:56.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but I'm sure the citizens of Taiwan Dialogue: 0,0:40:56.57,0:40:59.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,are perhaps equally concerned\Nabout their privacy, Dialogue: 0,0:40:59.32,0:41:02.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,especially given the geopolitical context. Dialogue: 0,0:41:02.51,0:41:03.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Definitely. Dialogue: 0,0:41:03.69,0:41:05.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: So how do you cope with those demands? Dialogue: 0,0:41:07.01,0:41:13.06,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Yeah, we design\Nwith not only defensive strategy, Dialogue: 0,0:41:13.08,0:41:15.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,like minimization of data collection, Dialogue: 0,0:41:15.52,0:41:17.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but also proactive measures, Dialogue: 0,0:41:18.00,0:41:20.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,such as privacy-enhancing technologies. Dialogue: 0,0:41:20.55,0:41:23.74,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One of the top teams\Nthat emerged out of our cohack, Dialogue: 0,0:41:23.76,0:41:27.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the TW response from the Polis, Dialogue: 0,0:41:27.38,0:41:30.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,how to make contact tracing easier, Dialogue: 0,0:41:30.29,0:41:32.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,focused not on the contact tracers, Dialogue: 0,0:41:32.35,0:41:35.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,not on the medical officers,\Nbut on the person. Dialogue: 0,0:41:35.24,0:41:37.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So they basically said,\N"OK, you have a phone, Dialogue: 0,0:41:37.55,0:41:39.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can record your temperatures, Dialogue: 0,0:41:39.64,0:41:42.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can record your whereabouts\Nand things like that, Dialogue: 0,0:41:42.87,0:41:44.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but that is strictly in your phone. Dialogue: 0,0:41:44.100,0:41:46.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It doesn't even use Bluetooth. Dialogue: 0,0:41:46.55,0:41:47.89,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So there's no transmission. Dialogue: 0,0:41:48.23,0:41:49.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Technology uses open-source, Dialogue: 0,0:41:49.80,0:41:52.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,you can check it,\Nyou can use it in airplane mode. Dialogue: 0,0:41:52.36,0:41:54.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And when the contact tracer\Neventually tells you Dialogue: 0,0:41:54.93,0:41:56.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you are part of a high-risk group, Dialogue: 0,0:41:56.100,0:41:59.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and they really want your contact history, Dialogue: 0,0:41:59.35,0:42:02.55,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,this tool can then generate\Na single-use URL Dialogue: 0,0:42:02.58,0:42:06.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that only contains\Nthe precise information, Dialogue: 0,0:42:06.38,0:42:07.56,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,anonymized, Dialogue: 0,0:42:07.59,0:42:09.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that the contact tracers want. Dialogue: 0,0:42:09.25,0:42:12.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But it will not,\Nlike in a traditional interview, Dialogue: 0,0:42:12.55,0:42:14.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let you ask -- Dialogue: 0,0:42:14.34,0:42:17.80,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,they ask a question, they only want\Nto know your whereabouts, Dialogue: 0,0:42:17.82,0:42:19.66,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but you answer with such accuracy Dialogue: 0,0:42:19.69,0:42:22.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that you end up compromising\Nother people's privacy. Dialogue: 0,0:42:22.63,0:42:25.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So basically, this is about designing Dialogue: 0,0:42:25.25,0:42:28.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with an aim to enhance\Nother people's privacy, Dialogue: 0,0:42:28.62,0:42:31.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because personal data\Nis never truly personal. Dialogue: 0,0:42:31.64,0:42:34.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's always social,\Nit's always intersectional. Dialogue: 0,0:42:34.43,0:42:36.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I take a selfie at a party, Dialogue: 0,0:42:36.93,0:42:40.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I inadvertently also take\Npretty much everybody else's Dialogue: 0,0:42:40.64,0:42:44.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,who are in the picture, the surroundings,\Nthe ambiance, and so on, Dialogue: 0,0:42:44.31,0:42:47.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and if I upload it to a cloud service, Dialogue: 0,0:42:47.66,0:42:50.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then I actually decimate\Nthe bargaining power, Dialogue: 0,0:42:50.72,0:42:53.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the negotiation power\Nof everybody around me, Dialogue: 0,0:42:53.33,0:42:56.17,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because then their data\Nis part of the cloud, Dialogue: 0,0:42:56.20,0:42:58.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the cloud doesn't have to\Ncompensate them Dialogue: 0,0:42:58.34,0:42:59.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,or get their agreement for it. Dialogue: 0,0:42:59.95,0:43:02.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so only by designing the tools Dialogue: 0,0:43:02.23,0:43:05.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,with privacy enhancing\Nas a positive value, Dialogue: 0,0:43:05.64,0:43:08.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and not enhancing only\Nthe person's own privacy, Dialogue: 0,0:43:08.35,0:43:10.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,just like a medical mask, it protects you, Dialogue: 0,0:43:10.42,0:43:12.50,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but mostly it also protects others, right? Dialogue: 0,0:43:12.52,0:43:15.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So if we design tools using that idea, Dialogue: 0,0:43:15.85,0:43:19.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and always open-source\Nand with an open API, Dialogue: 0,0:43:19.32,0:43:21.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then we're in a much better shape Dialogue: 0,0:43:21.05,0:43:25.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,than in centralized or so-called\Ncloud-based services. Dialogue: 0,0:43:27.66,0:43:30.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: Well, you're clearly\Nliving in the future, Dialogue: 0,0:43:30.39,0:43:33.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and I guess that's quite literal, Dialogue: 0,0:43:33.40,0:43:35.52,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,in the sense of,\Nit's tomorrow morning there. Dialogue: 0,0:43:35.54,0:43:36.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Twelve hours. Dialogue: 0,0:43:36.73,0:43:37.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: Yes. Dialogue: 0,0:43:38.66,0:43:41.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Tell me, what do you see in the future? Dialogue: 0,0:43:41.61,0:43:43.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,What comes next? Dialogue: 0,0:43:44.93,0:43:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Yes, so I see the coronavirus\Nas a great amplifier. Dialogue: 0,0:43:49.02,0:43:53.39,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If you start with\Nan authoritarian society, Dialogue: 0,0:43:53.41,0:43:55.97,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the coronavirus,\Nwith all its lockdowns and so on, Dialogue: 0,0:43:55.100,0:44:00.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,has the potential of making it\Neven a more totalitarian society. Dialogue: 0,0:44:00.83,0:44:03.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If people place their trust, however, Dialogue: 0,0:44:03.05,0:44:04.24,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the social sector, Dialogue: 0,0:44:04.26,0:44:07.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,on the ingenuity of social innovators, Dialogue: 0,0:44:07.24,0:44:09.16,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,then the pandemic, as in Taiwan, Dialogue: 0,0:44:09.19,0:44:11.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,actually strengthens our democracy, Dialogue: 0,0:44:11.42,0:44:14.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,so that people feel, truly,\Nthat everybody can think of something Dialogue: 0,0:44:14.75,0:44:18.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that improves the welfare\Nof not just Taiwan, Dialogue: 0,0:44:18.32,0:44:21.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but pretty much everybody\Nelse in the world. Dialogue: 0,0:44:21.35,0:44:22.79,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, my point here Dialogue: 0,0:44:22.82,0:44:27.58,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,is that the great amplifier\Ncomes if no matter you want it or not, Dialogue: 0,0:44:27.60,0:44:32.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but the society, what they can do,\Nis do what Taiwan did after SARS. Dialogue: 0,0:44:32.23,0:44:34.70,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,In 2003, when SARS came, Dialogue: 0,0:44:34.73,0:44:36.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,we had to shut down an entire hospital, Dialogue: 0,0:44:36.94,0:44:40.84,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,barricading it with no definite\Ntermination date. Dialogue: 0,0:44:40.87,0:44:42.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It was very traumatic, Dialogue: 0,0:44:42.35,0:44:45.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,everybody above the age of 30\Nremembers how traumatic it was. Dialogue: 0,0:44:45.90,0:44:47.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,The municipalities Dialogue: 0,0:44:47.13,0:44:50.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and the central government\Nwere saying very different things, Dialogue: 0,0:44:50.04,0:44:51.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that is why after SARS, Dialogue: 0,0:44:51.90,0:44:54.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the constitutional courts\Ncharged the legislature Dialogue: 0,0:44:55.02,0:44:57.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to set up the system as you see today, Dialogue: 0,0:44:57.47,0:44:58.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and also that is why, Dialogue: 0,0:44:58.86,0:45:02.12,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,when people responding\Nto that crisis back in 2003 Dialogue: 0,0:45:02.14,0:45:06.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,built this very robust response system\Nthat there's early drills. Dialogue: 0,0:45:06.37,0:45:08.57,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So just as the Sunflower Occupy, Dialogue: 0,0:45:08.59,0:45:13.42,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,because of the crisis in trust\Nlet us build new tools Dialogue: 0,0:45:13.44,0:45:15.28,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that put trust first, Dialogue: 0,0:45:15.30,0:45:19.100,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think the coronavirus is the chance\Nfor everybody who have survived Dialogue: 0,0:45:20.02,0:45:21.18,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,through the first wave Dialogue: 0,0:45:21.21,0:45:26.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,to settle on a new set of norms\Nthat will reinforce your founding values, Dialogue: 0,0:45:26.55,0:45:30.60,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,instead of taking on alien values\Nin the name of survival. Dialogue: 0,0:45:32.70,0:45:34.81,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: Yeah, let's hope so, Dialogue: 0,0:45:34.84,0:45:40.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and let's hope the rest of the world\Nis as prepared as Taiwan Dialogue: 0,0:45:40.37,0:45:42.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the next time around. Dialogue: 0,0:45:42.63,0:45:46.11,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When it comes to digital\Ndemocracy, though, Dialogue: 0,0:45:46.13,0:45:47.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and digital citizenship, Dialogue: 0,0:45:47.64,0:45:49.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,where do you see that going, Dialogue: 0,0:45:49.67,0:45:52.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,both in Taiwan and maybe\Nin the rest of the world? Dialogue: 0,0:45:53.11,0:45:56.14,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Well, I have my job description here, Dialogue: 0,0:45:56.16,0:45:57.47,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,which I will read to you. Dialogue: 0,0:45:57.50,0:46:00.88,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,It's literally my job description\Nand the answer to that question. Dialogue: 0,0:46:00.90,0:46:02.05,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, here goes. Dialogue: 0,0:46:02.47,0:46:04.98,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we see the internet of things, Dialogue: 0,0:46:05.01,0:46:07.21,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let's make it the internet of beings. Dialogue: 0,0:46:07.66,0:46:09.85,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we see virtual reality, Dialogue: 0,0:46:09.87,0:46:12.09,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let's make it a shared reality. Dialogue: 0,0:46:12.73,0:46:14.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we see machine learning, Dialogue: 0,0:46:14.86,0:46:17.32,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let's make it collaborative learning. Dialogue: 0,0:46:17.76,0:46:20.43,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,When we see user experience, Dialogue: 0,0:46:20.46,0:46:23.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let's make it about human experience. Dialogue: 0,0:46:23.36,0:46:26.37,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And whenever we hear\Nthe singularity is near, Dialogue: 0,0:46:26.39,0:46:28.13,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,let us always remember Dialogue: 0,0:46:28.16,0:46:30.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,the plurality is here. Dialogue: 0,0:46:30.94,0:46:32.54,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Thank you for listening. Dialogue: 0,0:46:33.38,0:46:34.68,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: Wow. Dialogue: 0,0:46:34.70,0:46:36.73,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I have to give that a little clap, Dialogue: 0,0:46:36.75,0:46:38.02,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that was beautiful. Dialogue: 0,0:46:38.62,0:46:39.78,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughs) Dialogue: 0,0:46:40.24,0:46:41.62,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Quite a job description too. Dialogue: 0,0:46:41.65,0:46:43.69,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So, conservative anarchist, Dialogue: 0,0:46:43.72,0:46:47.03,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,digital minister,\Nand with that job description -- Dialogue: 0,0:46:47.06,0:46:48.29,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that's pretty impressive. Dialogue: 0,0:46:48.31,0:46:49.91,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: A poetician, yes. Dialogue: 0,0:46:50.28,0:46:52.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB (Laughs) Dialogue: 0,0:46:52.86,0:46:57.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,So I struggle to imagine Dialogue: 0,0:46:57.55,0:47:01.01,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,an adoption of these techniques in the US, Dialogue: 0,0:47:01.04,0:47:04.87,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and that may be my pessimism weighing in. Dialogue: 0,0:47:04.90,0:47:09.82,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,But what words of hope do you have\Nfor the US, as we cope with COVID? Dialogue: 0,0:47:11.70,0:47:15.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Well, as I mentioned,\Nduring SARS in Taiwan, Dialogue: 0,0:47:15.49,0:47:20.10,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,nobody imagined we could have\NCECC and a cute spokesdog. Dialogue: 0,0:47:20.12,0:47:22.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Before the Sunflower movement,\Nduring a large protest, Dialogue: 0,0:47:22.92,0:47:27.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,there was, I think, half a million\Npeople on the street, and many more. Dialogue: 0,0:47:27.28,0:47:31.41,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Nobody thought that we could have\Na collective intelligence system Dialogue: 0,0:47:31.43,0:47:34.20,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that puts open government data Dialogue: 0,0:47:34.22,0:47:36.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,as a way to rebuild citizen participation. Dialogue: 0,0:47:37.02,0:47:38.99,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,And so, never lose hope. Dialogue: 0,0:47:39.02,0:47:44.63,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,As my favorite singer, Leonard Cohen --\Na poet, also -- is fond of saying, Dialogue: 0,0:47:44.66,0:47:46.34,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,"Ring the bells that still can ring Dialogue: 0,0:47:46.37,0:47:49.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and forget any perfect offering. Dialogue: 0,0:47:49.03,0:47:53.35,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,There is a crack in everything\Nand that is how the light gets in." Dialogue: 0,0:47:55.15,0:47:56.30,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: Wow. Dialogue: 0,0:47:57.32,0:47:58.53,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: That's so beautiful, Dialogue: 0,0:47:58.55,0:48:02.45,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and it feels like such a great message\Nto, sort of, leave the audience with, Dialogue: 0,0:48:02.47,0:48:03.77,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and sharing the sentiment Dialogue: 0,0:48:03.79,0:48:07.48,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,that everyone seems to be so grateful\Nfor what you've shared, Audrey, Dialogue: 0,0:48:07.50,0:48:13.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and all the great information\Nand insight into Taiwan's strategies. Dialogue: 0,0:48:14.50,0:48:15.65,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Thank you. Dialogue: 0,0:48:15.68,0:48:16.83,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: And David -- Dialogue: 0,0:48:17.66,0:48:20.31,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: I was just going to say,\Nthank you so much for that, Dialogue: 0,0:48:20.34,0:48:22.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,thank you for that beautiful\Njob description, Dialogue: 0,0:48:22.49,0:48:26.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,and for all the wisdom you shared\Nin rapid-fire fashion. Dialogue: 0,0:48:26.77,0:48:29.92,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I think it wasn't just one idea\Nthat you shared, Dialogue: 0,0:48:29.95,0:48:32.93,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,but maybe, I don't know, 20, 30, 40? Dialogue: 0,0:48:32.95,0:48:34.75,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,I lost count at some point. Dialogue: 0,0:48:35.86,0:48:37.96,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Well, it's called\NIdeas Worth Spreading, Dialogue: 0,0:48:37.98,0:48:39.26,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,it's a plural form. Dialogue: 0,0:48:39.28,0:48:41.00,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,(Laughter) Dialogue: 0,0:48:41.36,0:48:42.51,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: Very true. Dialogue: 0,0:48:42.54,0:48:45.23,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Well, thank you so much for joining us. Dialogue: 0,0:48:45.25,0:48:46.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,WPR: Thank you, Audrey. Dialogue: 0,0:48:46.43,0:48:48.36,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,DB: And I wish you luck with everything. Dialogue: 0,0:48:48.86,0:48:51.22,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,AT: Thank you, and have a good local time. Dialogue: 0,0:48:51.25,0:48:52.40,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,Stay safe.